And I believe that he had it just about right.
MORAN: But you know that Amnesty International calls this place part of an American gulag. And even some of our allies in Great Britain and elsewhere are saying that this place should be closed because of what it does to the American reputation for human rights around the world.
HARRIS: Then whether it should be closed and the American response to those outrageous charges are questions that should be taken up with, you know, with the leadership, with the secretary of defense, his office, and entities like that. But I will say, however, that based on what I know here and based on what I know of the history of what has gone on in Guantanamo since it was first used as a detention facility back in 2002, why those charges are simply outrageous. They, they, they throw a stain on the great American men and women, young men and women who I believe are doing a fantastic job here.
And all you have to do recently is look at that report by the or that article by the International Committee of Red Cross, read James Ellis's letter, read the Belgian OSCE, Office of Security Cooperation in Europe's, findings that they felt Guantanamo was, quote/unquote, "a model prison and better than Belgian prisons."
So I believe that all that points to the fact that organizations that would say outrageous things about Guantanamo do so for political gain and not from any basis of fact.
MORAN: Has any detainee been tortured?
MORAN: You're certain.
HARRIS: I am certain of that, and I say -- I can state that unequivocally. No detainee has been tortured in Guantanamo. We have had numerous investigations of torture -- of allegations of torture. And not a single allegation has been substantiated.
MORAN: You studied the ethics of war. Define torture.
HARRIS: Torture, I believe, is subjecting a prisoner or a detainee or a human to a pain, probably unbearable pain, for personal pleasure and satisfaction.
MORAN: Only for personal pleasure and satisfaction.
HARRIS: That is one.
MORAN: What if you subject someone to pain for the purpose of getting information? Is that OK?
HARRIS: I believe -- it is not OK. It is not OK.
MORAN: Not OK.
HARRIS: And I believe that subjecting a person to unnecessary pain, torture, if you will, is a very poor interrogation technique, and the results have shown, I believe, the history has shown, that it just doesn't work. There are better ways to interrogate detainees. And I believe we do it right here.
MORAN: Can interrogators here at Guantanamo Bay make a detainee stand on a box for eight hours?
HARRIS: They cannot.
MORAN: They cannot.
HARRIS: They cannot.
MORAN: No such positions are used.
HARRIS: That is correct.
What we do now in Guantanamo is we use essentially rapport building. It's less an interrogation than it is an interview, like we're having. You know and you could -- your questions to me are not unlike what our interrogators pose to the detainees here.
MORAN: But you're not shackled to the floor.
HARRIS: That's correct. And I'm also answering you freely. So, but the choice, though, is mine to answer you. And the choice is the detainee's to answer their interrogators.
And not all of the detainees are shackled to the floor.
MORAN: So the technique that the secretary of defense has allowed, the manipulation of the environment, temperature, dietary manipulation, stress positions -- they aren't used here?