And just, finally, I think that what we have to do is, Musharraf and Afghanistan, is to repair the failed policies of the Bush administration. And that's going to require intensive effort in the region. And Bill is right that we should be engaged in that diplomacy right away.
But this is the forgotten front line in the war against terrorism, because the Bush administration has walked away.
RICHARDSON: Charlie, I want us to just remember history. I want us to remember history.
Years ago, we backed the shah of Iran, a dictator. We are paying for that policy today by having backed a tyrant who repressed his people -- unintended consequences.
A president has to act.
RICHARDSON: I believe that we have to be on the side of the Pakistani people, not on the side of the dictator.
And what we have today is an opportunity to get Musharraf to step aside, to move toward this caretaker government, but also -- also -- to use the leverage of the assistance we've given him.
Most of the assistance that we've given him -- $11 billion, he hasn't used to go after terrorists. He's put it in military assistance for his fight against India. The money has been stolen.
We get the worst of all worlds. If we stand on a foreign policy of principle, of human rights, along with protecting our security, that is the best direction for our foreign policy.
OBAMA: Let me just pick up on a couple of things that have been said. And I think people are in broad agreement here. But I think one of the things that's been left out is Iraq. And part of the reason that we neglected Afghanistan, part of the reason that we didn't go after bin Laden as aggressively as we should have is we were distracted by a war of choice.
OBAMA: And that's the flaw of the Bush doctrine. It wasn't that he went after those who attacked America. It was that he went after those who didn't.
And as a consequence, we have been bogged down, paid extraordinary -- an extraordinary price in blood and treasure, and we have fanned the anti-American sentiment that actually makes it more difficult for us to act in Pakistan.
Just one more point I want to make on this, Charlie. I think it is absolutely true that we have to, as much as possible, get Pakistan's agreement before we act. And that's always going to be the case.
GIBSON: I want to...
OBAMA: But we have to make sure that we do not hesitate to act when it comes to Al Qaida. Because they are currently stronger than they were at any time since 2001, partly because we took our eye off the ball.
GIBSON: I want to go to another question. And it really is the central one in my mind in nuclear terrorism. The next president of the United States may have to deal with a nuclear attack on an American city.
GIBSON: I've read a lot about this in recent days. The best nuclear experts in the world say there's a 30 percent chance in the next 10 years.
Some estimates are higher. Graham Allison (ph), at Harvard, says it's over 50 percent.
Senator Sam Nunn, in 2005, who knows a lot about this, posed two questions that stick in my mind. And I want to put them to you here.
On the day after a nuclear weapon goes off in an American city, what would we wish we had done to prevent it? And what will we actually do on the day after?
EDWARDS: Well, let me say first, this is the very point I was making a few minutes ago.