with you when you work with us, but otherwise we are going to work
around you, This has got to become a much more conditional relationship.
We have tried for years and we have failed. We have to understand
the fact that Pakistan is not an ally. And we should start banning the
words ally and partner when it comes to Pakistan. It doesn't mean you
jettison the relationship, but we've got to become so much more sober
and critical and conditional here.
AMANPOUR: Post-bin Laden world we're dealing with Pakistan. We
also dealing with the rest of the Arab world. President Obama is going
to give a speech. I want to turn to Anthony Shadid, because there
again, you are in Beirut. You've traveled to Syria. You spoke to
Syrian government officials and a key aide of Bashar Assad.
Bashar Assad is being asked to respect those right the of the people
there. Is there any sense that you got, Tony, that the government is
going to step back from the violence that is being perpetrated against
ANTHONY SHADID, NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I think this is clearly a
government that is in survival mode. And they're willing to go as far
as they need to to maintain their power. Again we have to remember this
is a family who has ruled over Syria for nearly 40 years.
There's no indication that I got that they were willing to
compromise. And if they do compromise it will only comes from a
position of strength.
We may see that in the weeks ahead. They feel they have the upper
hand. There are tentative signs of some concessions being offered to the
opposition, but again the opposition is basically several dissidents,
you know very prominent dissidents within Syria. There may be talks
But I think clearly, we are going to see this crackdown continue in
the weeks ahead. And it could become very dangerous, given the events
today where we saw clashes on the border near the Golan Heights. This
may take turns that are not expected.
AMANPOUR: Tony, what do you think the people of the Arab world
right now, those who are rising in countries from Tunisia and on to
Syria and beyond, what are they looking for if anything from a speech by
SHADID: Well, I think in general, the event, the so-called Arab
Spring have created an enormous amount of enthusiasm and excitement but
also some trepidation. I think the power of the United States, again
this is just from interviews, but the power of the United States, in say
the revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia was that the revolution themselves
were not very associated with the United States.
These are organic movements, organic change. And in a way, the Arab
Spring is about the Arab world itself.
I think the president is going have a challenge in trying to
navigate that, trying to take some role what's going on in the Middle
East but without being too associated with it.
I think if we look at the history of the Arab world, we have to
understand that intervention has rarely gone well, be it the 1956 Suez
War, the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in '82, even the Iraq war.
So this is a very delicate moment I think in the Arab world. And
what gives the Arab Spring such force and such vigor in some ways that
it's the Arab world at a moment trying to determine on its own what it
AMANPOUR: Tony, thank you so much for joining from Beirut. And let
me pick up some things that he said.
There's so much inconsistency if you like, or different scenarios