AMANPOUR: So, Rich, if Tom Donohue and the Republicans don't agree with the tax about how to pay for all of this, how is this going to become a reality, this eminently sensible idea of getting people to work in infrastructure?
TRUMKA: Well, we have the money. It's not a matter of this country being broke. We have the money. It's the decision to make this a priority.
I think we have to make it a priority for two reasons. One, it makes us more competitive as a nation. Two, it puts people back to work. When you put people back to work, you don't have to talk about deficits and things like that, because people that are working contribute to the economy rather than taking something out of the economy.
I was sort of Tickled by Tom, though, when he said he disagrees with us about not wanting to do "buy America" stuff. He'd rather stimulate somebody else's economy rather than our economy. So...
DONOHUE: I was in Canada...
TRUMKA: I was sort of tickled by that thought.
DONOHUE: ... at the oil sands two weeks ago. And every state in the union, 50 states in the union are selling services, equipment and materials into that huge project. And soon, I hope, we're going to have the pipeline that comes down through the United States to our refineries in the -- in the Gulf Coast, which are going to create 250,000 jobs, most of them union jobs. So we -- what we want to do in "buy America" is build more things in America. But to set up opposition to us selling things abroad and for people selling things here, it costs jobs. It doesn't create jobs.
AMANPOUR: Let me ask you, Jeffrey Immelt, who's the head of the president's jobs council -- and, of course, you sit on it, as well -- said that he doesn't think America's in this game to win, unlike other countries, China, Germany, other such countries, that really needs to really work harder to do this. How can America not be in this to win? How this country gone soft?
DONOHUE: Well, it is fair to say -- and I think Rich and I would agree -- the emerging countries have, you know, hard over people that are entrepreneurs and working very hard. We're -- we're a developed country. And I wouldn't say we've gone soft; we've gone comfortable. And what we need, the young people coming into the workforce, starting their own businesses, people that are just determined to do this because they've got the skill, they've got the energy, and we need to help them. We need -- the banks need to help them.
TRUMKA: Look, look, the other countries that we deal with, they have a plan and a strategy. They have a plan for manufacturing. They have a plan to build things. We don't have that strategy in the United States. And the reason we don't is, that place up there gets flooded with lobbyists from multinational corporations whose interests are beginning to diverge more and more from the interests of this country. When we can realign those interests, then I think we all start to win and we put America back to work. We'll take on the competition and ultimately we win.
AMANPOUR: Very quickly, Germany, for instance, has managed to keep employment up by dealing with unions, perhaps sharing hours, reducing hours rather than laying people off. Is that something that you would consider?