This Week Transcript: Amb. Haqqani, and Sens. Lugar, Reed
Senators and The Roundtable on Obama's National Security Team
HAQQANI: Pakistan would then have to of course bolster its military presence along the border with India, and that may have to take troops away from the Northwest Frontier Province and the border with Afghanistan.
Nobody wants that. India, I'm sure, will not want that either.
The important thing to understand is that the democratic government in Pakistan, led by President Asif Zardari and Prime Minister Gilani, has really gone the extra mile in reassuring the Indians that we feel their pain. Pakistan is a victim of terrorism. India is a victim of terrorism. The victims need to get together. Forget about our bitter history, let's make a good...
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yet the Pakistan spy chief, the head of the ISI, was originally supposed to go to India to work on this, yet is now not going.
HAQQANI: Well, I think that the rhetoric right now is such that it is not the right time for a high-level meeting of that sort, but there is an offer of intelligence cooperation, and Pakistan will definitely cooperate with the Indians in every detail if there is evidence that there is any link to anybody.
The important thing is, everybody in the world is now coming round to agreeing that the government of Pakistan, the state of Pakistan, the military of Pakistan and even the intelligence services are not directly involved. That's the good news.
If there are individuals -- look, in this country, in the United States, people have been arrested for plotting and planning terrorism. Does that mean that the U.S. government is at fault?
Intelligence failure? I think that for that, people have to look closer to home rather than abroad.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, our own chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said this week that Pakistan has become the central front again in the war on terror, the central home of Al Qaida and its associated groups, and the question is, is Pakistan doing enough to root these groups out?
HAQQANI: George, I think you also saw the head of the CIA, General Hayden, say not long ago that the new government in Pakistan is trying to get its hands around the problem.
The point is that Pakistan and Afghanistan became the focus of jihad central many, many years ago when they were all fighting the Soviets. These people have roots in some remote parts of our country. They have spread those roots. Some of the efforts in the war against terror have not been successful. Our dictator, General Musharraf, did not do the right things in terms of eliminating the terrorists. But the new government is making its effort. Our intelligence services are far better sort of prepared. The will is there. And whatever capacity that we need, I hope that the international community will provide it to us.
STEPHANOPOULOS: One more question. President-elect Obama talked earlier in the campaign about sending perhaps a high-level negotiator, maybe even former President Clinton, to deal with the tensions between India and Pakistan. Is that a good idea?
HAQQANI: Well, I think that it is important for India and Pakistan to get over the burden of history. We have some unresolved issues, including the issue of Jammu and Kashmir. As long as we are disagreeing with each other, these two democracies, we should strengthen each other in that region and bring peace to that region. We'll continue to have arguments. I think it's about time that we put those arguments behind us, and if anybody can help us do that, that will be definitely a good thing.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Ambassador, thanks very much for your time this morning.
HAQQANI: Pleasure talking to you, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You should know that we also invited the Indian ambassador to join us this morning. He could not be here.
But we are now joined by two key senators, the ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Richard Lugar. Also, Democrat on the Armed Services Committee, Jack Reed of Rhode Island. Gentlemen, welcome to you both.
And Senator Lugar, let me begin with you. We've heard about this pressure that the Indian government is going to face now to respond militarily at sites in Pakistan, potential sites in Pakistan. Dan Harris talked to one analyst who was relatively complacent. Are you that confident?
LUGAR: Well, I'm confident that there is a good opportunity at this point for the Indians and the Pakistanis to understand that this group that probably caused this could cause harm to both of them. But I think that the suggestion just made that President-elect Obama send a very high-level person to the situation underlines the need for diplomacy on our part, diplomacy now as well as diplomacy in the Obama administration.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So you're for this high-level negotiator?
LUGAR: Well, I would think that might be a good idea, something -- because, it appears to me, that we have an interlocking situation of Afghanistan, Pakistan and India.
The Indians are sometimes accused by the Pakistanis of wanting to get involved in Afghanistan. And the Pakistanis have -- may be sending people to the border to stop that, while the Indians, given the election coming up in May, trying to show that they're aggressive, can move right away.
We're going to have to move very rapidly ourselves, the United States of America, to make certain that our forces in Afghanistan, quite apart from whatever we're doing in Iraq, are protected, while the rest of this goes on, with two very high-level countries.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And there's a chance they'll be less protected if Pakistan feels the need to move its forces from the Pakistani- Afghan border to India?
(CROSSTALK)
LUGAR: Well, very much so, given Kashmir, given the fact that the dissident group that probably caused the attack arose from the Kashmir controversy with India, to begin with.
There's a history, here. And as you have witnessed on your program, the Indian people are disgusted with their own government. The Pakistanis have a new president, Zardari, who is not in great shape.
And so our presence there is going to be very important.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But, Senator Reed, given that anger we see in India, I would feel that Indian politicians would feel that pressure, perhaps not to strike militarily, but at least to increase their forces and put more pressure on these parts of Pakistan which are harboring militants coming into India.
REED: Well, I think they're looking for some tangible signs from the Pakistanis, not just rhetorical flourishes but tangible signs that they're going to take effective action.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Where would that be?
REED: Well, there is indication that the intelligence service has been trying to distance themselves from these groups, many of which were their protegees, going back to the war against the Soviets.
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