Transcript: Sens. Jim Webb, D-Va., and Jon Kyl, R-Ariz.

And while I disagree with some of the policies, particularly with regard to waterboarding, sincerely the vice president and others sincerely believe these were the policies necessary to keep this country safe, which was kept safe for seven-and-a-half years. And I think the ludicrousness of we're going to try to prosecute, we're going to try to haul people before congressional committees. I mean, you look at the committee hearings on the auto companies, it's inconceivable to me what the circus looks like when we start to investigate the intelligence agencies in a time of war.

VANDEN HEUVEL: Hey, guys, this is about truth and torture. Illegal, immoral, wrong torture. This is not a political football game. I'm not here to absolve or condemn Nancy Pelosi. I'm saying we need to use this time to get to the truth of what a party in power in 2002, with all of the power in the world did in terms of briefings, insufficient, incomplete briefings on a range of issues, WMDs, 9/11 Commission, Iraq.

We need to use that. We need to declassify the briefings material and not cherry-pick as your father, Liz, wishes to do, is releasing...

CHENEY: My father doesn't wish to cherry-pick -- no.

VANDEN HEUVEL: He just wants two documents. But we need a truth commission with General Taguba. That is my proposal. The man who ran the Abu Ghraib report. Have a military man oversee and have real power to get to the truth of what we need to do to move forward responsibly.

Steve, to bury this will tarnish and undermine and subvert the justice and power of this country...


CHENEY: Katrina, there is absolutely actually no confusion on our side of this issue. On our side of this issue, you know, you can say you agree or you disagree with the policy, but these were policies that kept the country safe.

The vice president, as an example, has been very clear in saying absolutely I supported these policies.


CHENEY: No, but you let her go, George. You've got to let me finish.

The vice president has been absolutely clear in saying these are the right policies.

CHENEY: Now the people who seem to be confused are, you know, the Nancy Pelosis of the world who supported it but then they didn't support or who were really offended by it but they made no response to it. So I think it's very important here to be clear about what the facts are and in fact what happened.

CARVILLE: George, absolutely stunning finding and in line for four more years where Democracy Corps asked the American people, sometimes it you want to know an answer, best thing is ask the question. We said when it comes to national security policy, do you think President Obama is doing better, worse or about the same as President George W. Bush? Very fair question. The results were startling. Fifty percent said President Obama, 25 percent said President Bush. We're living in a world where twice as many people think that this administration is doing a better job on the signature Republican issue. This is somewhat of a -- this represents -- this is, again ...

CHENEY: It depends which polls you quote. No, but, James, there is a Rasmussen poll out that that says 58 percent of the American people polled believe that the release -- I'll show you my polls too believe that the release of the interrogation memos actually made us less safe so you can quote a whole range of polls on your question, James.

CARVILLE: Liz, this is just fact.

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