'This Week' Transcript: Axelrod

BREWER: They're coming across our border illegally, and the majority of them, in my opinion -- and I think in the opinion of law enforcement -- is that they're not coming here to work. They're coming here and they're bringing drugs, and they're doing drop houses, and they're extorting people, and they're terrorizing the families. That is the truth, Matt. That is the truth.


TAPPER: Congressman Bilbray, that's not the truth. And I've never heard you make any comment along those lines. A majority of the individuals crossing the border are criminals and seeking criminal enterprise? Should that rhetoric be condemned?

BILBRAY: The majority is not -- they are not actively engaged in the drug traffic. The difference is the perception of those of us on the border, like myself who grew up down there, and somebody who's up -- up in the northern areas like Chicago see this differently.

She is seeing this, the fact that she's seeing the crime, she's seeing that her community is becoming the kidnap capital of the world. She's seeing the drugs tied to...

TAPPER: That's not necessarily true, either, by the way.

BILBRAY: Well, Tucson is supposed to be -- I mean, not in the world, but (inaudible) United States, a major issue here. But the fact is, anywhere in the United States, this place has gone out of control. We saw it in San Diego, and the same people that are opposing Arizona's actions are the same ones who said in San Diego our fences wouldn't work.

I think her perception is this. You cannot separate the drug cartels from the smuggling cartels. They're the same. You cannot separate the fact that the border region is out of control because there's all this illegal activity.

The problem is that Arizona took a leadership role two years ago when the United States didn't follow, and that is go to the real source. Watch out when they say secure the border, because the border is a symptom. The real problem is out-of-control illegal immigration getting to illegal jobs that are going all the way up to Chicago. But we're looking at the border.

You really want to secure the border? Secure the workplace in the United States. Have more ICE agents breaking down the -- the barriers to enforcement that we need to be breaking down the employment opportunities in places like Chicago. Then we'll be able to secure the borders.

TAPPER: Do you agree? Do you disagree?

GUTIERREZ: Here's the problem, and here's the fact that Mr. Bilbray leaves out of this debate. The fact is that 40 percent of the undocumented workers in this country didn't cross that border. They came here legally to the United States. They came on a tourist visa. They came on a student visa. They came on a temporary worker visa, and they overstayed their visa.

So what we do is we continue to focus on the border as if though that were the exclusive problem that we have with our immigration system and those staying here.

Look -- and we're in Washington, D.C. There are going to be tourists here this summer that aren't going back to their country, OK? There are going to be students that are going to graduate that aren't going back.

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