And I think you're seeing this in New Jersey, you're seeing this in Wisconsin, so I think that, because they're bound by that limit of a balanced budget -- which I am in favor of at the federal level -- I think that you're going to see this around the country.
You -- look, the American family is learning they have to do more with less. And the same expectation, I think, is fair of the governments, both state and federal.
AMANPOUR: And, Jon, is it just about the budget? Or is Madison, Wisconsin, have a bigger political implication?
KARL: Oh, it clearly has a bigger political implication. Look, the president was quicker and more forceful in his denouncement of Governor Scott Walker than he was of in denouncing Hosni Mubarak. I mean, this happened, it was more forceful, it was quicker.
Madison, Wisconsin, the state of Wisconsin, this is arguably ground zero for the 2012 presidential campaign. Look, this is a state that if President Obama loses, he almost certainly is going to not win re-election. This is a state that's been solidly Democratic and (inaudible) more in the direction of Republicans, a bigger move than any other state in 2010.
I mean, look what happened. You saw the Republicans capture the governorship, capture the state legislature, two House seats, a Senate seat, and, you know, Democrats see the momentum and see real danger signs for next year.
WILL: Governor Walker was elected promising to do what he's doing. He did the same thing as county executive in Milwaukee, where he was -- there were protests, union uprisings, and he was handily re- elected.
Donna, as I'm sure you know, such heroes of the labor movement as Franklin Roosevelt and Fiorello La Guardia said there's no place in the public sector for unionization at all. As I'm sure you know, 24 states limit or deny entirely collective bargaining rights for public- sector unions. And all Mr. Scott is planning to do is limit collective bargaining to wages. What is draconian about that?
BRAZILE: Well, what these workers would like, George, since they've already given up furloughs, paid leave, unpaid leave, what they would like is -- is to have a voice at the table. They don't want their collective bargaining rights.
And, look, what we're talking about is that the governor has cherry-picked what public workers he will subject to this so-called removal of their collective bargaining rights. The firefighters, the policemen and others who supported him in his election bid, well, guess what? They don't have to worry about their collective bargaining rights.
Christiane, over 400,000 state and local employees have lost their jobs over -- during the -- the duration of the recession. They are willing -- what we've seen across the country is, these workers are willing to come to the table to talk to these governors about reducing the -- the budget deficit, but not on the backs of working people.
AMANPOUR: Let me ask you, because you brought up, George, when the governor was the county executive in Milwaukee. And there's an interesting story today. It -- it boils down, perhaps, as some might say, to sort of shared sacrifice. Where is the sacrifice going to be borne the most? And is it equitable?