It matters greatly to us what kind of government Iraq has. And I really think the administration -- especially during Chris Hill's ambassadorship -- just took a hands-off attitude. It matters. And it matters before there has to be a feeling among all the different ethic sectarian groups in Iraq that they have some purchase in this government. And right now it feels to them like a Shia government, which is not necessarily...
AMANPOUR: Well, talk about the hands-off, because, obviously, during General Petraeus and Ryan Crocker, when he was the ambassador, there was a real hands-on, a real sense of guiding and shaping. Which is better?
KAGAN: Well, when you're the occupying force, you have to have some guiding and shaping. I mean, when we finally leave Iraq, we'll have to leave it to whatever -- you know, the tender mercies of its own political system, which will be -- have its own dysfunctionalities. That's fine.
But right now, we're looking to pull out. We need to have a government that is capable of satisfying these needs so we don't see the return of Al Qaida in force or you don't see the return of terrorism, which -- which is going to make it harder for us to leave.
AMANPOUR: In Afghanistan, they're trying to do the same thing in Afghanistan, and you've just seen the Washington Post article saying that Karzai does not like the night raids. You heard what Lindsey Graham is saying, that's very disappointing, it's that -- that's the backbone of their strategy right now, and that he heard nothing about that from Karzai.
Where is Karzai's head right now, do you think, on this?
KAGAN: Well, I'm not sure I know where Karzai's head is, but I do think we have to recognize he's in a difficult position. I don't -- by the way, I'm not totally sympathetic to him, but I am a little bit sympathetic.
He's the head of a country that's an occupied country that's at war where there are civilian casualties, and -- and he's a politician. And so as a politician, he's reacting to this. But do I think that he wants the United States to pull out of Afghanistan? No. Does he have to say things which look like he's unhappy about some of the things we're doing? Yes.
AMANPOUR: So I want to put up this latest commercial about "don't ask/don't tell." I want to show you what Cindy McCain has been saying, talking about war policy and the military.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: LGBT teens are six to nine times more likely to attempt suicide than their straight peers.
C. MCCAIN: Our political and religious leaders tell LGBT youth that they have no future.
NAVARRO: They can't get married.
C. MCCAIN: They can't serve our country openly.
BERGERON: What's worse, these laws that legislate discrimination...
PROBST: ... teach bullies that what they're doing is acceptable.
C. MCCAIN: Our government treats the LGBT community like second-class citizens. Why shouldn't they?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Well, that's one issue of the gay situation right now, but particularly gays in the military. Do you think in a lame-duck session that they're going to vote on this, on "don't ask/don't tell"?
WILL: A, I don't think they will. And, B, if they don't do it, it won't happen for at least two more years.
KRUGMAN: No real opinion on that.