'This Week' Transcript: McCain

And, you know, you have to have some sense of scale here, right? We're looking at a -- a U.S. government that 10 years from now will probably owe something like $20 trillion. Whether we borrow another $500 billion now is not going to make a big difference in that position. It's really trivial. But it can make a huge difference to the fate of the -- you know, the 15 million people who are unemployed in the United States right now.

The idea -- people using these long-run budget concerns as a way to argue against helping unemployed, when the average duration of unemployment now is about 35 weeks, that is -- that -- I don't think -- I don't think -- for most of the people making this argument, I don't think it's sincere. They're just using the occasion.

TAPPER: Al, walk us -- walk us through the politics here. Why can't they pass unemployment extensions or this emergency spending on Capitol Hill, if Democrats control both the House and the Senate?

HUNT: Well, because they need 60 votes in the Senate, and they don't have 60 votes. I think they will pass that ultimately. They'll do little things. They won't do the sort of stimulus that Paul is talking about.

I think the fundamental problem here, Jake, and -- and, Dan, I think what you're talking about is 5, 7, 10 years out, not right now. We can't walk and -- and chew gum at the same time. We ought to be dealing with long-term deficits in the long term and short-term stimulus, which this incredibly sluggish economy needs right now.

The politics just are lousy, though, Jake. The -- I don't know if it's the Republicans, if it's conservative Democrats, but the -- but the side that talks about the need to rein in the federal government, this is -- this is not very rational -- has really -- is winning that debate.

And when you talk to people about the stimulus, Paul may be right. There should have been a bigger stimulus. Barack Obama thinks there should have been a bigger stimulus. The reason there wasn't, because you couldn't get it through, even -- even a year ago. I mean, you know, meet Ben Nelson. But -- but -- but...

TAPPER: Or Susan Collins or Olympia Snowe or Arlen Specter.

HUNT: But -- but -- but right now, that -- that -- that argument that we have to rein in -- because the stimulus didn't work, well, I think most economists would say the stimulus did work...

(UNKNOWN): It did work.

HUNT: ... in the sense it would have been a lot worse if there hadn't been one. But when people talk about the stimulus, they associate it with bank bailouts and auto bailouts, which had nothing to do with the stimulus.

TAPPER: Let me bring -- let me bring this out, because we -- I had this made. This is something that -- in February, the Obama administration was very excited. They brought out this icon, which shows all the jobs being lost, and then the stimulus passes, and how job losses and now job gains happen.

Now we have this. I think I'm doing this correctly. And, Paul, where -- where are we going from here? And how much does this really bad bar graph impact the stimulus politics?

KRUGMAN: Well, I mean, now, we know that that's -- last -- last month, the previous month wasn't as good as it looks and the current month isn't as bad as it looks...

TAPPER: Because of the census.

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