'This Week' Transcript: Sens Kerry and Lugar


To throw away all of those opportunities simply because some feel the Russians are no longer relevant or -- or we should just simply build whatever we want to quite apart from the Russians seems to me is an illogical stance, but we're hearing a lot of that. AMANPOUR: Well, you have spoken about Russian cooperation on Iran, North Korea, and all the other areas of -- of vital American national security. Also in Afghanistan, it seems the Russians are now allowing the U.S. to re-supply forces in Afghanistan. The president unveiled the Afghan review, the war review this week, and it seems saying that there's not fast enough progress, but decent progress on the ground. But one of the key issues remains the sanctuaries and the re-supply of Al Qaida and Taliban into Afghanistan from Pakistan. What more can the United States do to get Pakistan to close those borders? LUGAR: I'm not certain there is much more we can do. Our diplomacy has worked full time. So have our agreements with the Pakistanis, in terms of their own security. But at the same time, the Paks don't really have control over a lot of the territory. People have been coming and going for -- for decades, as a matter of fact. We -- we just have a problem there that -- quite apart from the fact the Taliban are re-entering some of the northern parts of the country, quite apart from the fact that even after we expel Taliban from towns, there's not much governance in many cases, and debates on billions of dollars of infrastructure we're trying to get built in Afghanistan, sometimes without the cooperation of the central government. AMANPOUR: Related to this, we opened the papers this weekend to find that the CIA station chief in Pakistan has been outed and has had to leave, basically, in fear of his life. The ISI now saying, "We didn't do it." They deny having made his name public. Do you believe Pakistan's at fault there? And do you think that this is going to be a major setback for U.S. policy right now there? KERRY: No, I don't believe it will be a major setback, and I think we need to stop having public debates about what Pakistan is at fault for or not at fault for and what we're not at fault for or at fault for. That does not help this process. Pakistan, it's -- it's a very fragile democracy that has emerged out of eight years, nine years or whatever, of the Musharraf dictatorship. There are huge economic difficulties facing them, huge internal difficulties facing them. They've made many decisions that, in fact, put themselves at risk in many ways. The drones are very unpopular, all through Pakistan. And yet they're allowing us...

AMANPOUR: And yet the backbone of U.S. success right now there.

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