'This Week' Transcript: Sen. John McCain


GERARD: The Ashram Sylvania Super Saver lightbulb has no mercury in it. It's the most energy-efficient lightbulb invented so far. We can hardly get it sold in America. MUIR: But who knew about it?

GERARD: Who knew about it?

AMANPOUR: Well, who knew? Why not?

GERARD: Because of the onslaught of Chinese products, you can't get it put in the store. I mean, it's a totally different discussion about how you get on Wal-Mart's shelf or how you get on the shelf at Home Depot or the big box stores.

AMANPOUR: What about the key issue of human capital? With technology, sort of, you know, replacing the workforce -- what about a 55-year-old guy who is making x and now doesn't have that job? How does one retrain him?

GERARD: Three quick points on that. First of all --

AMANPOUR: Or woman.

GERARD: Men or women. There's training adjustment assistance that was cut by the Republicans in the last budget that we need for the people who are 55 and older. We have got 40 percent unemployment in the trades, so we're having a hard time getting apprentices done. Most of our manufacturing workplaces, we lost 55,000 factories during the Bush era, 2,800 factories as the result of the Wall Street collapse. Those factories used to train apprentices. Now they're barely scratching to get back. And we have got to train, we've got to get our community colleges ramped up, and we've got to get people getting back--


AMANPOUR: This is the problem. The cutting of spending on education.

ZUCKERMAN: The jobs -- the -- most jobs are created by start-up companies. OK? A huge part of them come from people who have intellectual or educational knowledge, MAs and PhD's in the hard sciences. Roughly 50 percent of the graduate degrees in the hard sciences are foreign students. We have reduced the number of foreign students we have allowed to stay and work in this country from 195,000 in the year 2000 to 65,000 today.

This is absolutely criminal.

AMANPOUR: What does it mean?

ZUCKERMAN: It means we do not have the intellectual power. These people go back to their own countries. There -- and they start the high-tech companies.

I'll give you an example. The computer was built in the United States, developed and built in the United States. Andy Grove wrote about it. We now have 166,000 jobs in the computer industry in the United States, but 1.5 million jobs are overseas. This is exactly what's wrong.


ZUCKERMAN: That is a manufacturing company. We have to train -- just a minute. We have got to keep the intellectual capabilities and the educational capabilities to put high-value added products into the stream of this country's economy. Because if we don't, we're going to lose that, and then we'll really be lost.

FREELAND: I totally agree with you, Mort. And that piece that Andrew Grove wrote was very interesting, but his point was that America is really good at inventing stuff. And if you look at who are the big leading edge high-tech companies in the world, they're still American. Right? It's Apple. It's Google. It's Facebook. We're seeing a revolutionary effect.

But what is not happening is the follow-on jobs for hundreds of thousands of people are not there. Apple is a good example.


AMANPOUR: I want to ask you about the budget cuts as well.

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