WILL: Well, who's going to be left in the government, starting with the secretary of state?
KHALILZAD: I think he has -- really, he's been damaged very badly by the leaks that have taken place here in Washington, before WikiLeaks and afterwards. And -- and -- and a trusting relationship, if that is the objective -- and I believe it ought to be -- would require, I think, changes in terms of personnel that are responsible on a day-to-day basis in dealing with President Karzai.
YACOOBI: Why -- why don't we stop the corruption? The corruption, why don't we stop it? For example, if a contractor from a government of let's say European or American wants to build a road or wants to build a school or wants to build something, they need the permission. And they are...
AMANPOUR: Well, the cables show four levels of -- of corruption and bribery.
YACOOBI: I just really want to just mention this. Why we don't stop? We don't stop those people that say don't give the bribe and let there be wide open that you are not getting the permit to build something in Afghanistan because you have to pay the bribe. Don't pay the big chunk of bribe. If you don't pay it, we are -- will be decreasing corruption.
Right now, Afghan people are suffering from that. To tell you the truth, people of Afghanistan don't have this kind of money to -- to pay.
But do you know? In (inaudible) we work -- I work -- I have been working 20 years right now in Afghanistan in area of education and health. We do reach thousands and thousands of people. We do have to get permission. But, yes, it's (inaudible) we want to get the permission. It takes time.
AMANPOUR: Don't pay the bribes.
YACOOBI: Don't pay -- don't pay the bribe.
BRZEZINSKI: But, in effect, we have to ask ourselves, what is our objective in Afghanistan? Is it to build democracy? Is it to shape a nation? Is it to change its culture? And if it is all of these things, we're going to be there for 30 years.
Or is it to make certain it's not a safe haven for a terrorist group that struck us? I think that's our objective.
AMANPOUR: That's what's been enunciated.
BRZEZINSKI: And that has to be -- that has to be sought (ph).
AMANPOUR: Tell me about...
BRZEZINSKI: But all of this talk about corruption, nation-building, democracy, people lose sight of what it means. It means we have to occupy the country, dominate it totally, crush all resistance, and have an undertaking that will last several decades. That is just wild.
AMANPOUR: But let me -- before I move on, I wanted to ask you again about -- about Iran -- but do you -- do you believe that it is a big player, that the -- that the relationship is being managed correctly there?
BRZEZINSKI: I think the president has tried -- and he has tried repeatedly, especially in his direct approaches to the chief ayatollah -- but we're undermining our objectives by some of our rhetoric, because at the same time we're maligning them, we're threatening them, we may be engaging in covert activity that outrages them. And we're unifying...
AMANPOUR: You're talking about the nuclear scientists?
BRZEZINSKI: I don't know whether it's us. But if it is us, that's a rather dangerous game, because it invites retaliation.