FBI Secret Probes: 3,501 Targets in the U.S.

This is just too much. The abuses of governmental power are mind boggling.
The fact that they are being used against reporters shows that the line about monitoring al queada is no more than a red herring to cover up domestic spying. This is an outrage.

It is better save, than sorry. Who got hurt in secretly obtained phone records deal? Nobody. Let’s move on, and allow the government to govern.

“The FBI says its request for reporters’ phone records are made in compliance with the law.”
Exactly what law is that? Sounds like the kind of snooping and repression found in the People’s Republic of China.
Goodbye US Constitution – the experiment of a free society was fun while it lasted – and look at the bright side – 200 years is not a bad run.

I am wary of this or future administrations, whether democrat or republican, having this authority. It’s only a matter of time until some corrupt official uses these unchecked taps for malicious purposes. The courts should be involved.

Thank goodness the government is keeping up with these terrorists. We haven’t had a major attack in 4 years, and with efforts like this, I hope we never have one again. I’m glad to give up a little privacy so that we can stay safe. All of the overzealous civil rights folks need to step back and look at the big picture.

If reporters are obtaining classified information they should be monitored, and those who are giving them the information should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. In case you haven’t noticed….We are at war…and we must stop the leaks that are damaging out intel capabilities.

“The abuses of governmental power are mind boggling” – Actually, since in FACT the reporters are publishing SECRET and TOP SECRET information, that they have been TOLD is SECRET and TOP SECRET, they are IN FACT violating National Security, rather than publishing unsubstantiated accounts of secret prisons in Europe (Which no one after 3 independant investigations appears to have found, or found anyone who knows of their existence) or instead of informing the ENEMY ( you know those terrorists ) about methods we are using to track them down, perhaps if they had the best interests of the United States in mind, they would have told someone to stop the damage, but because they could spin these as more ‘Bush is Bad’ they did everything they could to enforce that perception.

Our Rights are being hurt by secretly obtained phone records…..or doesn’t that matter to you John…..??????

Now we learn the FBI is investigation the Press in the name of fighting terrorism. All of our freedoms are slowly but surely being erroded by this administration. A free press is best and most powerful tool that feedom has in it’s defense. It is time that electronic journalism as well as the print begin to live up to it’s charge of remaining independent.

I suspose when we are burying the next victims of a terrorist attack,some of you are going to cry that enough wasn’t done to identify them and protect us. Who cares if they check phone records or even compile files? I don’t have anything to hide. Do you? The liberal media in this country will be our downfall. The next time you need protection, call one of them.

Who got hurt because of Watergate?
Who got hurt because of the Valerie Plame leak?
Who gets hurt when Cheney goes hunting? (couldn’t resit)
Let the government govern.

The president has this authority legally. Elections do have consequences. If you are concerned with the effects of government, then you must convince a enough citizens to win the election. Since Mr. Bush did convince the people to elect him, he has the right to exercise the perogatives of government.

Leak classified information, go to jail. That’s what the left says, anyways.

The real story is the news media falsely reporting that the records had been turned over…just another transparent attempt to discredit the Administration with FALSE REPORTING. Next tjhing you know the broadcast networks will start sabotaging presidential addresses to the nation.

We haven’t had a major attack in four years? Before 2001, how long had it been since we had a major terrorist attack on US soil?
The fact that no attack has occurred is not in thanks to the Bush administration’s fascist tactics, it is just sheer dumb luck.
I’m stunned by all the people who are cheering on the government for spying on people who clearly have no links to terrorism.
Are you going to try to tell me that Al Qaeda has a cell made up of reporters from ABC, the New York Times, and the Washington Post?

All the people whining about government abuses should keep in mind that your are whining at the wrong administration. In 1994 the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994 was passed on voice vote of a Democratic Controlled House and Democratic Controlled Senate and signed into law by Democrat President Bill Clinton. The act mandated that the phone companies would cooperate with the government in providing information. The key phrase is: “enabling the government, pursuant to a court order or other lawful authorization, to access call-identifying information that is reasonably available to the carrier.”
Note besides “court orders” you have the language of “other lawful authorization” which can easily be interpreted to be a letter, or any other instrument that somebody views as “lawful.” For that matter “other lawful authorization” could easily be a request from an FBI agent.
So for all the liberals whining about Bush, I think its only fair that YOU ALSO whine about the Clinton Administration and their abuses of power…unless of course you excuse that kind of behavior when your guy is in power.

Danny knows “it is sheer dumb luck?”
Cool, Danny.
What’s the Saturday Powerball?

I would rather die than give the FBI power to sieze library records.
I would rather die than give the FBI power to sieze our personal freedoms.
I would rather die than give the FBI power to conduct secert searches.
I would rather die than give the NSA power to keep my phone records.
I would rather die fighting than give into some mythical creature.
I would rather die than give the US Gov. power to sieze the sick’s medicene.
I would rather die than give the FBI power to sieze our free speach.
Be cause I could not live with myself knowing all those soliders who fallen before me died for nothing.

Apparently the United States no longer believes in the “First Amendment of the United States Constitution.” Whats next? Are they going to attach GPS bracelets on everyone? Hello George Orwell’s 1984.

Isn’t “freedom of the press” one of the freedoms we are protecting from the terrorists, who our government tells us “hate freedom”? Well it seems to me that the administration is doing far more damage to the freedom of the press than the terrorists have. The constitution also requires that we citizens be protected from unwarrented search and seizure–we’ve all pretty much been searched when our phone records were seized.

We are supposed to be a nation of checks and balances. If the FBI is concerned about a possible crime, get a warrant from a Judge, so there is proper constitutional oversight. Otherwise, the FBI could try to suppress the free press, which would be itself a crime.

I hope some of you have looked at history and seen that leaks cause people to die, look at WWII when one person from the government made the statment “the reason we have not lost very many subs is that the Japs have their depth charges set to shollow.” These caused many more subs to be sunk because the Japs were reading the papers and set their charges to a deeper depth, many subs were lost along with their crews. Loose lips still sink ships.
Jake, Retired USN.,
Been their and done that.
even have the T shirt.

This is not an easy issue. I have no desire to give up liberty for a little security. However, I am not interested in another attack on our soil, either.
But take some perspective from History. Both Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt exercised broad wartime powers and severely limited the freedom of American citizens. This was understood to be a temporary necessity in a time of war. Bush’s use of wartime power is not near as “draconian” as Lincoln’s OR Roosevelts and we DID survive those times. Furthermore the measures then were necessary.

You, message #3. And you, #22. Oh, and you #28. But not you, #31. You are all now being investigated. Can you imagine all the things this regime is doing that we DON’t know about?

When unelected government staff, paid by we the people, illegally leak information that elected officials deem confidential or secret, said staff has broken the law. Unauthorized disclosure of secrets is illegal and can be vey damaging to the country.
Reporters who knowingly publish those secrets are willing participants in the crime and should be prosecuted.
The examples of recently disclosed secrets include all of the disclosures of the use of telephone records. I’m sure our enemies are very happy to know what techniques we have employed to catch them so they can takes steps to avoid being caught.
Find the leakers and their helpers and put them in jail.

watch as the karma works itself out.
I am not a Republican nor a Democrat but it is clear that we are now a corporation for hire and the “leaders” have no issue with violating the rights of Americans…yes even you who says “I have nothing to hide” as these freedoms are taken away, eventually you too will whine.
You have given up your rights to people who couldn’t give a damn about you. Literally.

If you think it is like Communist China now , if we get hit again , all you †hat are whining are going to be asking why didn’t our Government do something.

You dolts – the Govt is not trying to peek into your bedroom window. The Govt is going all-out to make sure a mushroom cloud does not appear over Manhattan or Wash DC!

Let’s all keep track of the members of Congress whose November platforms include a strong plank on abolishing collecting phone records.
Short list? No list?

Some of us still don’t get it do we. I would gladly let them collect my phone numbers if it meant no more of you that are complaining will not have to see another plane hijacked or a monument fall or a mushroom cloud over your childs elementary school. Pivate businesses already track/sell and barter with your phone calls, web browsing, credit card purchases, your credit ratings, etc. Wake up…please.

I say hurray. They should. I demand it. They are undermining our war effort and putting out troops at unnecessary risk.

To paraphrase Pogo (Walt Kelly, cartoonist), “We have met the enemy, and it’s our government”.

To those who are so willing to give up their freedom I say listen to one of the founding fathers.
Ben Franklin said”"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

Without a free press we would all just be living under just another form of communism where the government controls everything via what they perceive to be “justifable censorship”. It is the free press, without government intervention, that keeps this from happening.
For those of you who say that sacrificing freedoms are necessary because we are “at war,” I say, by Bush’s definition (terrorism = war) we will ALWAYS be at war(when will there not be terrorism?), therefore we have FOREVER lost these freedoms. And the government will not stop here. For all of you who think you “have nothing to hide,” think of China. They control what you read (printed and internet), watch on TV, think and believe under the guise of “protection of the people.” If you question their authority, you are sent to a “re-education” camp (i.e., prison).
I for one do not want to wake up one day to find that we live in a society that does not tolerate free thought. Don’t trust the government (either party)…keep govenment at a MINIMAL and out of our lives.

To ensure secrecy, classify as much as you can.
To ensure obedience, produce as much fear as you can.
To ensure dominion, crush all opposition by any means.
To ensure tyrany, deny freedom.
By the November elections, Bush’s illegitimate, unjust war will have killed more Americans (2,740) than died on September 11, 2001.
Do the right thing! Remove from power the destroyers of our country and our constitution. God help us.
Peace out.

I hate that the media puts out info that “they” might say the people should know. Stuff that is suppose to BE A secret. I like knowing stuff but I don’t have too. I WISH THEY COULD BE LEFT ALONE TO DO THE JOB THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO DO WITH OUT INTERFERENCE OF POLITICS. I am not worried because I have nothing to worry personally. It’s politics at it’s worse. BOTH SIDES HAVE MADE POLITICS A JOKE. Unbelievable!!!!

so….3,501….i’m pretty comfortable
believing i’m among the 295,000,000 (give or take) who weren’t “spied” on. The FBI does not target randomly. These persons had to exhibit some suspicious behavior. Think back to the 1940′s (the last time we were attacked) We aren’t putting Arab-Americans in camps (nor should we) If you’re not doing anything illegal, don’t worry.

It will be interesting to see how many news outlets pick up on this story. In the recent past, one has to wonder whether they even care about the First Amendment. In Saturday’s Wall Street Journal, their editorial page had a piece titled “The Datamining Scare,” with the following callout: “Another non-threat to your civil liberties.” If media corporations are turning a profit, do they really need the U.S. Constitution? Someone should ask them that. And ask them this: Who will speak for our constitutional rights if not the press?

Wow……..I can only hope that one or two neo-cons are reposting the same compost here over and over. If this really is representative of the populous as a whole, we are indeed folks, in a whole lotta trouble. Can those of you that run and hide from the “terrorists” not smell the fascism here? Have you never studied civics, or world history? If you have a problem with people leaking facts to the press, then you have lost the fundamental understanding of transparent government. Do any of you really believe the “terrorists” didn’t already know we might be tapping their phones? Give me a break. Sure, the press is not always perfect, or even right. But, it’s very existence and sources give our government something to fear, and we remove it at nothing short of our peril. Our great country has survived, even thrived while living by theses principles. I see NO reason to give them up now or EVER. Beware of the Pandora’s box people, once opened………….

Again, how can anyone twist logic enough to relate September 11th to the American government spying on journalists who are CLEARLY not involved with terrorism?
The journalists weren’t doing anything illegal before the government started spying on them, and by your logic, they have nothing to worry about.
Also, please give me an example of this dangerous, classified information that journalists are leaking left and right. I don’t see what sort of dangers would arise when it’s revealed that the CIA kept illegal prisons forbidden by the Geneva convention. Oh, wait: I do. The danger is in having the American public figure out that they’ve been duped into thinking we live in a free country.

FEAR,FEAR,FEAR,FEAR…TERRORISM……Oh No, must give up freedoms for security………
Not only are we ceasing to be the land of the FREE, We clearly are ceasing to be the home of the BRAVE….

I’m convinced that someone is paying people to come on this blog and post these ridiculous comments. All of these people are saying the exact same talking points over and over. It’s gotta be fake.

Couldn’t the logic that we have not been attacked here since 9/11 due to Bush also apply to the fact that we have not been attacked since the Red Sox won the World Series too? This is an instance where cause and effect do not apply.
Buying into the arguement that illegal wire-tapping and the collection of millions of phone records is all in the name of fighting terrorism has no end. Will you feel the same when your home is searched or your business records confiscated without a warrant?
I commend the press for being the new form of checks and balances since the Congress has forsaken that duty.

Here in NYC we are all comming down with effects of lung scarring and other respiratory illness from dust exposure on 911. I and at least two friends now have serious problems breathing. Yet, I only hear references to my city, to our pain, as excuses for violations of federal law.
Why aren’t these FBI agents, CIA agents, and NSA “spooks” looking for Bin Laden? Where is he? What a waste of time it is to survail and impose upon the honest hardworking people of this country.
This is not about counter-terror, this is about counter-information operations. They’ve lost the hearts as opinion polls show, now they want the minds. That means controlling information.
I want to be free. I want to be safe. I am neither now. After 911 I feared terrorists. Now I fear terrorists and violations of my privacy.
Please keep reporting Mr. Ross, those with minds also have voices. We need you to keep us informed, and I honestly am in your debt sir for getting your story and others out. Without debate there is no democracy, and it breaks my heart to look around and see this day come to pass.
To conclude sir, my thoughts are with you and I support your courage.
—
Aside: If anybody doubts the legitimacy of my stance, or my “right” to comment on government counter-terrorism and domestic survielance methods, let me tell you this: for months I had nightmares watching bodies falling from the sky and splattering on the ground after 911 – I was playing back the tapes they didn’t air on television as I had seen them first-hand. They have subsided, but I still have them. I felt the worst types of anxiety following 911, but they have subsided as well.
Reading the news everyday now is bringing back an ambient level of unease and discomfort that I had hoped to put behind me. This illegal abuse of power is bringing terror back to this New Yorker who fought to overcome his worst pain of his life.
All the government needs to know about me is I fought my fears to keep the city I love in business by going about mine. It was real here – no televisions, just the smell of that burning rubble. I am an honest American, and an honest man. Leave me alone, and give me access to my fourth estate.
Thank You

It’s utterly amazing???? Do any of you sheep that are defending this belligerent monstrosity, with it’s giant proboscosis probing your private lives really think that somehow keeps you “safe” from terror? The bottom line is if ONE person is willing to give their life for a cause, and willing to strap themselves down with explosives to make their “point” then NO amount of “security” can stop them. What, in reality has this President done to make us more safe? We are Creating new terrorist by the thousands in Iraq, we almost gave the security of our ports over to a country with KNOWN ties to terrorists, and over 3,000,000 ILLEGAL Aliens have crossed the border into our country in the past 5 years…Get Real. We Must Defend OUR FREEDOM AT ALL COST. And we must again become the land of the FREE, And home of the BRAVE. Terrorism is a “war” with no end…..Your freedoms, once gone will only be resurrected via revolution. Think about it. -Wayne

This will not end with the current administration. 50% of this country seems willing to sacrifice some personal freedoms for protection. Folks, got news for you – protection does not come in this form. No violation, whatsoever, of the constitution should be tolerated by any American. To tolerate, and not question, is un-American. The fathers of our nation believed that dessention and question of government to be a core element of Democracy. Terror started and has existed long before this nation even existed. We even employed aspects of terrorism against the British, who were at that time the occupying force, to make way for our great nation. I am not a liberal or a conservative, labels are nothing but foolishness. I am a Veteran and an American who met “terror” personally. Pick up a copy of “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” and read the chapters covering the years 1928 to 1936. You will see where the potential lies for the current form of popular belief. If you feel that strongly about supporting the current efforts our government does for the war on terror, enlist, pick up a weapon, and impact change for yourself.

Our elected officials are squealing as if their skives were riding up on them, over NSA collecting phone data from the telephone companies.
According to the media no one is being left out, every man, woman and child in the United States is being spied on.
NBC reports, “IS THE PENTAGON SPYING ON AMERICANS”, USA TODAY headlines, “NSA HAS MASSIVE DATABASE OF AMERICAN PHONE CALLS”, and the British got in on the act as BBC headlines read, “ BUSH BACKS SPYING ON AMERICANS”.
Well I want to go on record now with our local phone carrier that my records can be made available to NSA any time they feel my phone calls to Jasper pose a national security threat.
Now for my wife she will probably object to having her conversations with Pat monitored as they discuss yoga classes at the YMCA.
Putting this all in perspective I guess NSA would not want those records or would even waste their time gathering such data, but the American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit on my be half, to stop all illegal surveillance of my phone calls.
Maybe if I was a member of Congress, had my hand in the pocketbook of a lobbyist I would squeal if I thought some one was monitoring my phone calls.
You know some times I wonder what happened to COMMON SENSE. Did he just die a natural death and I missed the obituary?
If a telephone call was made to a terrorist to blow up the Raleigh ACLU office, would they file a lawsuit accusing the government of failing to protect them. The constitution requires the President to protect all Americans even the ACLU.
It seems to me the ones doing the most squawking are the ones who more than likely have a reason to be concerned.

Great post Robert…….Robert’s urging to “get down a copy of rise and fall of the third reich” and read 1929-1936 is truly great advice. You can read through that, and see the paralells to what we are undergoing today, it’s truly frightening.

I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can defend the collection of phone data from thousands of Americans, especially reporters. Secretly rooting out their confidential sources smacks of out and out fascism.
Being a “freedom lover,” to paraphrase Bush, and possessing the willingness to let the federal government chip away at those freedoms, are mutually exclusive ideals. Giving up civil rights will in no way serve to protect us from anything and will in fact afford us less protection against our own government-run-amok.
It’s time the people of this nation stood up and demanded accountability for a government that is indeed their own. Governing a nation is not, nor should it be, a paternalistic endeavor.

The press has forgotten that with freedom comes responsibility. The mainstream media has failed the people by too often reporting the news as they wish it to be, rather than it is. They report information that fits their template for what they want you to believe. If they don’t have time to come up with phoney documents, they’ll use anonymous sources, or completely fabricate the story in order to make their point.

Facist?
The Media has crossed far too many lines in recent years. Dig deep, people. The media is no longer news, it is abusing it’s outlets to spew it’s political vision. And I am tagging them accross the board… even the “conservative” networks and papers.
This is just as corrupt if not more, than what the rich lobbyist is doing, and a lot of you are falling for it. Think for yourselves. The people who are leaking and reporting information that hinders our security efforts are criminals for god’s sake, and it could cost American lives!Forget what media outlets have burned into your brains and think about things for a minute… you may realize you’ve been asleep at the wheel while they were driving for you.
Do any of you get any comfort from knowing that Iran, Cuba, Syria, and every terrorist organization on the planet has a direct tap into the heart of our NSA and CIA? They do, it’s called the New York Times.

The comments quoting Ben Franklin’s wisdom remind me of another wise saying, can’t remember who it was: “ALL THAT IS NECESSARY FOR A TOTALITARIAN STATE TO EXIST IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING.”

I can’t believe that after all the lies that have been told, laws that has been broken, and people who have died as a result of this administration, there are still this many stupid people with voter registration cards.
We’re screwed. Sound asleep … and screwed.

Sounds like the government is investigating ABC News and doing it legally. I hope you are prosecuted to the full extent of the law for leaking classified information.

This is about control and power, plain and simple. Corruption, graft, evil…it isn’t to keep you safe….who got the most out of all this?
The media and most of America already knows the answer…it is the duty of the media to report it without favor.

For all the commentors who are supporting a domestic spying program, calling liberals and journalists traitors, etc, ask yourselves this:
Hypothetically, when the next president comes along, and for sake of argument we’ll say it’s a Democrat, Hillary Clinton since you all don’t like her – what are you going to be saying when Hillary has this power to eavesdrop and spy domestically without a warrant and suddenly it’s FOX News anchors getting tapped, and right-wing pundits getting tapped?
What are you going to say then when the someone you don’t like is in office and has the power or guts to pull a stunt like this?

If reporters reveal classified information placing the our citizens and our soldiers at risk then by all means collect it and prosecute.

I like this… We could really have a strategy in the war on terror after all.

Welcome to America – the Police State.

Thank you eric for your comments above. Well worth repeating:
To ensure secrecy, classify as much as you can.
To ensure obedience, produce as much fear as you can.
To ensure dominion, crush all opposition by any means.
To ensure tyrany, deny freedom.

Yeah we’re paranoid, but are we paranoid enough?

All of the people claiming that a few people are posting all of the “right wing” stuff are the same people who thought that Kerry had won the presidency. Wake up and get over yourselves. Differing opinions are ok. Right lefties? The press is leaking information that is killing our troops in the field. You can thank the previous administration if you don’t like the laws that are in play in this matter.

I have posted articulate and sometimes eloquent comments regarding the late 1930′s actions of this administration but at this point I am compelled to state the only thing left for all of us to say on this administration gone awry: AAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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hhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Please God, save us!

Signed into law by Bill Clinton and written by the 1994 Democrat Congress and Democrat Senate. Please read it before demonstrating ignorance of the well written law from 1994.
Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994
Pub. L. No. 103-414, 108 Stat. 4279
(1) The terms defined in section 2510 of title 18, United States Code, have, respectively, the meanings stated in that section.
(2) The term `call-identifying information’ means dialing or signaling information that identifies the origin, direction, destination, or termination of each communication generated or received by a subscriber by means of any equipment, facility, or service of a telecommunications carrier.
SEC. 103. ASSISTANCE CAPABILITY REQUIREMENTS.
(a) CAPABILITY REQUIREMENTS- Except as provided in subsections (b), (c), and (d) of this section and sections 108(a) and 109(b) and (d), a telecommunications carrier shall ensure that its equipment, facilities, or services that provide a customer or subscriber with the ability to originate, terminate, or direct communications are capable of—
(b) (1) expeditiously isolating and enabling the government, pursuant to a court order or other lawful authorization, to intercept, to the exclusion of any other communications, all wire and electronic communications carried by the carrier within a service area to or from equipment, facilities, or services of a subscriber of such carrier concurrently with their transmission to or from the subscriber’s equipment, facility, or service, or at such later time as may be acceptable to the government;
(2) expeditiously isolating and enabling the government, pursuant to a court order or other lawful authorization, to access call-identifying information that is reasonably available to the carrier–
(A) before, during, or immediately after the transmission of a wire or electronic communication (or at such later time as may be acceptable to the government); and
(B) in a manner that allows it to be associated with the communication to which it pertains, except that, with regard to information acquired solely pursuant to the authority for pen registers and trap and trace devices (as defined in section 3127 of title 18, United States Code), such call-identifying information shall not include any information that may disclose the physical location of the subscriber (except to the extent that the location may be determined from the telephone number);

First, those who say something along the lines of “if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about” are playing a mind game. The game works like this: The speaker is rationalizing his or her fear of being intruded upon while attempting to silence the listener. Have compassion, not anger.
Secondly, I feel that the government is no longer for, by, or of the people any longer, but that the government is for, by, and of the government.
Third, as a soldier’s mom, we are at odds with one another. I am against the war (trumped up, in my opinion), but I support all those soldiers who are simply doing their jobs and laying their lives out there for an imperfect American dream.

If you are a liberal-minded person who has responded or simply read responses in this string, you should pick up Terror and Liberalism by Paul Berman and The End of Faith by Sam Harris (two liberal intellectuals). You might be surprised at what they have to say.
We cannot let our qualms over wire taps, collateral damage, Gitmo, etc., paralyze us. That is what our enemy is counting on — and many in the intelligence community and the media who disagree with the Bush Administration’s policies are effecting that paralysis by exposing our government’s tactics.
As Harris explains, “…when your enemy has no scruples, your own scruples become another weapon in his hand.”
Indeed, Harris goes on to state that “Sayyid Qutb, Osama bin Laden’s favorite philosopher, felt that pragmatism would spell the death of American civilization.”
Let us hope he was wrong. For my part, I’ll sacrifice a little of my phone privacy if it potentially means catching just one terrorist (or journalist, for that matter) trying to do us harm. And when I feel it’s no longer necessary to make that sacrifice, I will vote for public servants who feel the same way.

‘Nuf said.

Interesting discussion, with some important misconceptions. First, according to the Telecommunications Act of 1996, your phone billing records ARE your property, and cannot be given to anyone without either your permission or through legal channels, such as a subpoena. The FTC just filed complaints a week or so ago against five companies selling telephone billing records, under this very theory. (http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2006/05/phonerecords.htm)
Second, I don’t think it’s POSSIBLE to trade liberty for security. Giving up freedom never makes you safer; all you can do is trade who you’re afraid of. In this case, that would be guys with suits and guns in exchange for guys with turbans and bombs. I do not want either, but I will take my chances living in a free society.
Lastly, for the guy who always shows up in these discussions, saying “if you don’t like it, you can leave the country”, this is a nation of laws, not men, and what makes us different are the rights that your Constitution acknowledges. If you want to be “protected” instead of free, where you have rights only at the whim of your rulers, there are a whole bunch of other countries YOU can move to, but the U.S. is the only place where there’s much hope of holding on to freedom, and that’s becoming a long shot.

Show me a case where any of this currently debated government intervention has resulted in a prosecution of an unrelated issue. When that happens, I will stand up, until then let the folks charged with protecting us do their job. DWO

Hey, guess what? Monitoring American phone calls WILL NOT stop the next 9/11. How could it? Any terrorists that have it in for America are not going to spill all their plans in a phone conversation to their buddies. We’re talking about people who operate in top-secret, probably rarely using phones anyway. They devise their plans BEFORE they come into the US, and would have no reason to talk about them over the phone once they’re here.
If you have any sense, you’ll realize that our civil liberties are being violated to obtain nothing, not even a little tiny bit of safety.
The government was monitoring American phone records way before 9/11. It is nothing new– potential terrorists already know that we are doing it now, and they knew we were doing it then too. Did monitoring American phone records stop 9/11? Of course not.
Terrorists may be religious extremists bent on making America disappear, but they aren’t stupid. They don’t make chatty phone calls on their Verizon cell phones talking all about their next scheme.
Come on, America, it’s time to stand up for your civil liberties before they’re all gone because some people just can’t live without deluding themselves that sacrificing their rights will buy them safety.

Here are some great quotes on Freedom and Liberty, every now and then I like to read old quotes. I find them inspirational, maybe some of you will too.
Liberty without learning is always in peril and learning without liberty is always in vain. John F. Kennedy
The only part of the conduct of anyone for which he is amenable to society is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign. – John Stuart Mill
Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death! – Patrick Henry
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. – John F. Kennedy
“In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” – George Orwell
There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. – John Adams
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison. – Henry David Thoreu
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. – Goethe
I believe that liberty is the only genuinely valuable thing that men have invented, at least in the field of government, in a thousand years. I believe that it is better to be free than to be not free, even when the former is dangerous and the latter safe. I believe that the finest qualities of man can flourish only in free air – that progress made under the shadow of the policeman’s club is false progress, and of no permanent value. I believe that any man who takes the liberty of another into his keeping is bound to become a tyrant, and that any man who yields up his liberty, in however slight the measure, is bound to become a slave. – H.L. Menchen
The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over the government. – Franklin Delano Roosevelt
When liberty is taken away by force it can be restored by force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default it can never be recovered. -Dorothy Thompson
It is not the fact of liberty but the way in which liberty is exercised that ultimately determines whether liberty itself survives. – Dorothy Thompson
We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. – Edward R. Murrow
You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man’s freedom. You can only be free if I am free. – Clarence Darrow
Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will. – Federick Douglas
If we do not believe in freedom of speech for those we despise we do not believe in it at all.- Noam Chomsky
Ultimately we know deeply that the other side of every fear is a freedom. – Marilyn Ferguson
A right is not what someone gives you; it’s what no one can take from you. – Ramsey Clark
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. – Samuel Adams
Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us. – William O. Douglas

God bless America.

3000 people died on 9/11/01. Many more died from other preventable causes. 9/11 was preventable, but with the way that Bush is spending our money and not securing anything, we’re as vulnerable as we ever were. Actually, we’re more vulnerable. Bush has made the world hate Americans more, and he’s created new terrorists.

We have the great misfortune to have these Republican right-wingers among us who boldly claim they will gladly give up any of their constitutional rights in order to stay “safe” from terrorism. They proudly proclaim that if the government wishes to track all their phone calls and other communications that’s just fine with them – as long as they are safe from terrorism.
Personally I’m not afraid of terrorism and will gladly speak up to defend my, or anyone else’s, constitutional rights as well as the rule of law. In reality it’s the Republican right-wingers who present a much graver threat to everything this country stands for than the terrorists ever will.
Please do your part for your country and throw the cowardly Republicans out of office in November!

Have the terrorists really succeded? I can’t imagine how they could be anything other than happy as they watch our liberty vanish under theocratic rule (They only wish that rule to be Islamic other than Christian) Meanwhile America’s average beer swilling, remote control, Bible-thumping, hypocritical troglodyte’s act as cheerleaders for the whole thing……It’s just surreal. Like a nightmare from which we can’t wake.

Getting information about reporters’ “luds,” as I think they’re called, seem far outside the scope of terrorism … or is the blotter mistaken on its characterization of NSL’s limits? Using them in leak investigations, especially now with a firm Bush loyalist in the Attorney General spot, actually does quite uncomfortably raise the spirit Nixon: win at all costs.

What is it that Ben Franklin said about people who give up there rights for freedom ending up with neither.

I love it; the Bush bashers are out in force on this one. PLEASE show or prove how one person has had their personal liberties taken away from our current security programs. You liberals will never regain power in Washington because all you do is complain and never offer one idea on how to fix problems facing us.

It saddens me to see how many USA citizens have become a bunch of COWARDS. Food poisoning from bad meat in the USA kils more people EVERY year than terrorist have in the last 60 years.
Why would we choose to surrender our civil rights (paid for with the lives of millions of USA soldiers since 1776) to save ourselves from such a small threat.
When did the bravery of USA citizens die? When did so many of us become a bunch of whimpering cowards???
STOP hiding from terrorists like a bunch of scared little kids and stop surrendering the rights USA soldiers have been fighting and dying for over the last 230 years.
I’m a US Army Veteran embarrassed to see so many of my countrymen become a bunch of wimps.

You say in your report:
Federal law enforcement sources say the National Security Letters are being used to obtain phone records of reporters at ABC News and elsewhere in an attempt to learn confidential sources who may have provided classified information in violation of the law.
How can we the public, believe in your Federal law enforcement source? Especially these so called National Security Letters are to find out the leaks? Why would they jeopardize themselves giving this information to you?
This story has a smell to it!!

Internal leaks need to be uncovered. If the govt needs to spy on reports then they have the right to do it. If there is illegal activity going on (ie leaking secret info.) then they need to find the source. Reports have no morals when releasing information. Information that can harm innocent people or information that jeopardizes our nation.

Ben Franklin: “He who gives up a little freedom for a little security, deserves neither.” America, your diebold elected gov’t has taken your freedom and has given you no security. If you aren’t doing anything wrong, why should you worry? Let the gov’t lurk in on your privacy! Innocent until proven guilty? Or guilty until you prove yourself innocent?

I wonder if there’s a way to find out if I’m on the list. Would be useful to get particulars.

When you are dead, you have no civil liberties. The terrorists have clearly indicated that they intend to use our civil liberties and freedoms that we enjoy in our country against us. You must do more than just listen to NPR and the drive-by media. They have a product to sell. They are in the entertainment business. Curious isn’t is that all main stream news media outlets have publicity departments and publicity employees. They are packaging a product. Now it is Ipod casts, next year it will be something else. Do not be fooled my friends. The government’s very first job is to protect its citizens. Remember September 11, 2001. Not enough of us do. The main stream media wants us to forget it. Do not trust the MSM. They are the mouthpieces of the liberal left.

Things are getting bad out there. So bad that reporters can’t receive and publish classified information released illegaly. A veritable nightmare, we’re asking liberals to obey the law. Nixonesque! The next thing you know Bush will be selling missle launch technology to China.

Did you people read the article? The information is being monitored to find out who is leaking sensitive security data that is classified or secret.
This story itself is just another example of a leak! Politicians i believe are leaking information for political reasons and we need to find who and punish them.
They are playing politics with very serious matters that should not be trivialized for political gain.

ABC, just like NBC and CBS (the worst offender) report just what the Democratic party wants it to report. Of course, the news is held for just the right time, and for just the right effect. You see no news about the booming economy, nor do you see anything about the real cause of the high cost of gas. Everything is George Bush’s Fault and all of you on the left take the easy road and agree. The Media is really the ones at fault for the majority of the problems in our country because they cannot print just the facts, they are puppets for the left and always will be. Thank God for the internet and the various Blogs to get the news reported as it happens, and not use it just for effect.

” I’m glad to give up a little privacy so that we can stay safe.”
A LITTLE privacy you say? I wonder if you will feel that way when your job application is turned down because your prospective employer found out that you made one too many calls to a mental health clinic, or one too many 900 calls…
there is no such thing as “a little” in this repressive regime.

The two things that most concern me are the intentional lack of oversight coupled with the mandate for the total secrecy in requesting such information.
That is the definition of secret police, is it not?
I am hopeful that 2007 brings us to completely repealing the USA PATRIOT Act and replacing it with an act that respects the sanctity of the United States Bill of Rights. After all, is our freedom not what we ultimately fight for?
Lastly, instilling fear and nationalism upon the American people to push an agenda is a guaranteed historical failure.
Period.
:::

I got nothing to hide. If it means they can stop another 9/11 by keep close tabs on who some people call, I say go for it.

If you are upset at these media revelations, usually uncorroboated conjecture and tainted by left ant-american bias, think about the dozen or so other nations who monitor your communications and steal our nations technological and military edge. Think about what led up to 9/11 and the bloodletting and how a rutheless and aggressive american intelligence service could have prevented much of it. in the 1960s the left murdered any chance of a pro-active, results driven and rutheless intelligence service. I don’t wanna know what Bush knew, because he knew he was inheriting a real neglected mess.

Thank you for reporting this further outrage the US Constitution and the protections it is SUPPOSED to afford American citizens.
Molly Ivins is right, why did we bother to defeat the former Soviet Union if we were going to become them.
The true terrorists are squatters in our White House after the Election Fraud and Voter intimidation and dirty tricks. Impeach the entire Bush Regime and save our Freedoms. Bush works for US, stop the boy-king and his dictatorship.

A lot of you people simply do not get it
1. Domestic spying by the government is illegal.
2. The Bush admin. leaks classified information when it suits their purposes.
3. We had enough information to stop the terrorist acts of 9/11…NSA received word on 9/10 that the attack was the next day. Unfortunately it was not translated until 9/12. We has Zacharias’ computer but FBI supervisors would not allow the computer search that would have revealed the plot. These supervisors also were informed that suspected terrorists were taking flying lessons (but not take off and landing lessons.)Our problem is not lack of information. It is the beauracratic ineptitude once the information is gathered.
4. Freedom of the press is being violated by spying on the press.
5. Our fourth ammendment rights are being violated by our government.
This is not Cold war era Russia, or Communist China. The end does NOT justify the means. We cannot sacrifice our freedom for some false sense of security. The terrorists could easily strike here again right now if they choose. It would be easy to strap on some explosives and walk into a supermarket…Ask yourself: who asked them to “stand down”, and why?

Some of the comments on this issue show why democracy is such a dangerous form of government! The government’s spying on reporters, whether approved by a lower court or not, is a clear and unambiguous — and frightening — violation of the constitutionally-guaranteed freedom of the press. Democrats are promising not the impeach the President. But with stories like these, if true, how can they avoid it? He keeps asking for it.

It’s hard to understand how the majority of Americans can think it’s okay for their government to continue to infringe on our Constitutional rights. In fact, it’s damned scary.

How many of these posts would be entirely different if it were President Hillary Clinton who ordered the monitoring/spying instead of President George Bush ? Would all of those who are defending this government that operates behind a curtain of secrecy be defending Hillary ? And would those who attack George Bush so easily be willing to criticize Hillary ?

Welcome to the “right”. We let congress push the Patriot Act into law due to our histeria, this is what we get. You can’t blame Bush or anybody else in power, the american people voted it all into play and have done nothing to stop it since.
It doesn’t take all this to catch terrorists, look at the middle east, they have been doing it for decades. These people aren’t that smart or that endowed with resources, we just aren’t really focusing on the problem, we’re after oil right now, not terrorists. That was the whole point – OIL, not terror. Terror was an excuse to open to doors to declare a “war” on something. The drug war got us into central and south america but that didn’t pan out, now it is the “war on terror”.
Wake up people

One only need remember what the U.S. government did to Martin Luther King Jr. with phone records. Hiding behind wiretap authority, the FBI used his phone records to attempt to discredit him personally to make him go away– the greatest civil rights leader in recent history. The FBI made a systematic attempt to spy on him leak personal information about him– that’s a fact of history.
You don’t need 3500 phone records to perform a historic abuse and injustice to silence people– you just need to abuse it once.

If our press in the 1940′s operated and believed as our press does today – they would have disclosed a ridiculous amount of information that would have aided and informed our enemies during WWII. The media today doesn’t seem to grasp the idea that disclosure of these programs and printing sensationalistic stories about what are, by the majority of accounts, legal actions in the fight we’re in as well as passing on classified information are aiding an enemy in a time of war. Such action during WWII would have resulted in criminal charges against the newspaper and reporter. These same people cry loudly about a supposed “leak” about a non-covert CIA employee by the administration. Any rational person can see this for what it is – a press that has chosen the side of the democratic party and will print / do anything to discredit a President they disagree with.

I remember when you were limited to where you could live, where you Worked went to school what Hospital and where you could be Buried was based on your Race.
I believe if we don’t take a stand now, one day ones future will depend on what government list your on or not on.
Peter Hinds

Yup, it’s all a big conspiracy. The Conservatives are all out to use Terrorism to get into your personal info and control your minds. Don’t get EZPass either because that can track where you drive too. The FBI, CIA and your mother are all in on it. Be a little rational here and not so biased to one party or another. There was wire tapping that circumvented laws prior to Bush being in office, oh right that was Clinton so that was fine, nothing was going on back then. Don’t be so neive.

You people have no idea what has been and is being done to protect you. It’s a good thing most of the records are sealed. If you’re up in arms about an issue as small as this, I shutter to think how much you would cry if you knew everything. The problem with Freedom of Information is that the truth is too hard a pill for you to swallow. You’re better off not knowing. Take a queue from The Matrix: take the blue pill and be happy in your ignorance. The ideals and principles you thought this country was founded upon–the “inalienable rights,” you had–they only existed in your minds.

The government should not be spying at will…but they do and always have – if they want to review phone records (which can easily be broken down by country) of calls coming in from suspected terrorists coutries – they should be doing so to protect our national security. Persoanlly I have nothing to hide – so if they want to hear my conversation with my 75 year old mother yakking about the crossword puzzle and her cat- by all means have at it. My dad once told me – don’t put anything in writing (in this case talk about on the telephone) that would incriminate me. He said that in 1970 – Politicians back in the 1800′s always sent their ciphers in code – knowing someone was alwasy ready to grasp content and use it against them…our war department has always done the same. Long story short -history has valuable information – learn from it.

Corporate America is collecting way more information on you than the government. Your shopping habits, surfing habits, financial status, personal information, etc. Did you know that phone companies sell phone records?
Wake up.

One nation, under surveillance, with liberty and justice for those who can afford it.

“No attacks since 9/11″. Tell that to the victims of roadside bombs in Iraq. The terrorists don’t need to come here anymore; we are sending our sons and daughters to them. If the terrorists “hate us for our freedom” will we win their love by giving up that freedom? “No civil rights when you’re dead”; none when you’re alive in a police state, either.

I think a lot of people in here need to exercise a little vision. Absolute power corrupts. Through going after the journalist you further erode the checks and balances.
I know a lot of people are quick to bash someone for being “liberal” or “conservative”, but you need to see past the labels.
Today the government is leaking the names of our spies for political gain, tomorrow their arresting journalists for reporting news that goes against the current administration (i.e. this NSA business). What do you think happens next?

NSL’s without oversight is dangerous. It flies in the face of our constitution. In cases where NSls were used, the defendant is not even allowed to defend himself as only the prosecution and judge can look at the evidence. So, where is that in keeping within our cherished legal system. Yet because it is part of “national security” no court is going to rule this part unconstitutional.
For those who say, we have not been attacked in 4 years all I have to say is look at the past decade. Attacks did not occur frequently, either. So, this administration’s policies do not necessarily mean we are safer. There are more killings in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other US interests in the past four years than before. Even Rumsfeld said recently that terrorist attacks are on the rise.

You typed:
“Do not trust the MSM. They are the mouthpieces of the liberal left.”
I typed:
Please. The MSM is entirely controlled by wealthy GOP backing corporations. You’d have to be an asleep not to see that your statement is just another myth perpetuated by those who fear themselves more than the future.

I feel SO PRIVELEDGED to live in the US. I will go to my grave holding onto the idealism upon which this country was founded. More than two hundred years ago, Benjamin Franklin wrote, “Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” It’s a concept that honors our past and preserves our future.

If an internal leak violated the law and a reporter collaborated in this effort, then both should be prosecuted.
The people screaming foul now were probably the same people whining about the gov’t not doing anything before. You can’t have your cake and eat it to.
Besides, if you have nothing to hide then there should be nothiing for you to worry about.

Where were all of these protesters when the Clinton administration used the FBI and the IRS to get information on people without the court’s permission and where were you when President had the man & wife arrested in a northern state for yelling at him and they went to trial.
I gladly give up my rights to protect the people of the US.
GO President Bush !!!!

if someone leaks classified information is that not a crime?
Surely we need to stop that type activity. At times I think the press is more interested in hurting our country than protecting it. A view shared by most Americans I know.

If reprters are going to talk to and photograph the enemy then what is wrong with trying to find out who they are talking to? Why should reporters be exempt if records show contact with terrorist or if the reporters are claiming to have information they received from terrorists? Grow up people. Don’t forget 9/11. It is our complacement attitude that encourages terrorism.

If the media is receiving information, and the reporter and/or media outlet knows that it is “Classified Information”, then the reporter and/or media outlet have an obligation to report the source of Classified Information — further, it should be considered a crime to report Classified Information, and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
At what point did the media determine they were above the law?

We don’t have to worry about being destroyed by terrorists from without when we have a government willing to destroy our Constitution and enough citizens happy to let them.

Excuse Me—but could one of the Bush lovers please explain why the gov’t needs More Info inorder to keep us “safe”? It is a FACT that the gov’t had in its possession, before 911, several peices of INTEL that warned of just such an event and Were Given Warnings by several other Countries that using an Airplane as a missle was not only possible but also likly–For some reason Bush and Co. decided to ignore the claims. Bush claims that they could not decifer the intel. So what good is more information if we can’t translate it? And why is FOX claiming the new 911 video shows anything at all?

Now people on here are questioning 9-11? That the hijackers are still alive?
Give me a break. I hate Bush as much as the next guy, but if you believe he somehow “created” 9-11, you need to take a serious, serious look at yourself.

This has absolutely nothing to do with terrorism…
It’s about power and control…
It’s about making the executive branch untouchable…
From ’93 until his term ended in 2000, Bill Clinton did a great job preventing further attacks…right?

To all those whom say “I would gladly give up my privacy so I’m protected” let me remind you of a true patriot. Benjamin Franklin.
“Those whom would sacrifice civil liberties for a bit of temporary freedom deserve neither.”
Or perhaps another true patriot, “Give me liberty of give me death.”
Or one more? When our nation was founded a question was asked, “What type of government do we have?” and Franklin’s reply was “A republic, if you can keep it.”
We are losing our republic, in the name of safety.

BLA, BLA, BLA, if you have nothing to hide than you should not be upset. If a so called journalist set up a interview with osama I would like our Gov. to know about it so a bomb can be dropped on the meeting. This media is so left wing it’s sick. WAR is bad ugly and people die thats not news thats fact. If you had a hornets nest in your atic would you call the extermanator i’ll bet you would even though some of you beleive if you just leave it alone it won’t bother you, well thats BS cause you will get stung and when they smell the fear they will come for more. I guess the terrorists were right we will collapse within. Quit crying and get behind your President and win this.

Thank you ABC for disclosing more sensitive info about our government’s fight against possible sleeper cells in America and how we are monitoring them. Your loyality towards America’s security is well noted. To refresh their memory, perhaps your reporters should look at the 9-11 tapes when sleeper cells flew American planes into the Twin Towers as well as those images of Americans jumping off the building.

What’s next rounding people up and putting them in camps like President Rosevelt

Do you really think that “the terrorists” didn’t know that they may wire-tapped? Even the most low-life petty drug-dealer is aware of that possiblity. And how does revealing the fact that there are secret prisons in other countries where torture is conducted help “the enemy?” Wouldn’t knowing that fact be more likely to “deter” the criminals as right-wingers are so ready to assert about tough prison sentences?
The fact is that these programs were secret because they are illegal. The press is not only correct to print these stories, they are morally obligated to alert us to this law-breaking by our government.
This principle is no different from the prosecution of Clinton for lying under oath. He broke the law. The Bush administration is breaking the law. Both deserve(d) investigation and prosecution.
As for the contention made over and over that “I did nothing wrong, so the spying is OK” – that may be easy to say now, but what if what is wrong changes? The NSA database is of all calls for the last 4 years. Is it inconceivable that speaking out against the government or any member of the administration will not ever be declared illegal? Look up the Sedition Acts. And is it impossible to think that anyone that has had a phone call from a lawbreaker wouldn’t be immediately under suspision? Look at the McCarthy hearings and “Red Scare.” People were investigated simply because they worked with somebody who had been in the Communist Party 15 or 20 years earlier. Would you like to have to go to the police station and be interrogated because your nephew called you up to wish you happy birthday a couple of days before he was busted? Or because you played poker with somebody who later turned out to be a pedophile?
Lastly, this kind of activity is even more dangerous in an environment where the government now asserts the right to arrest and jail you without the rights of haebius corpus, representation by a lawyer, or a trial by jury.
This country is not in danger of entering onto a slippery slope… we are sliding down it with ever-increasing speed.
Wake up and fight back, everyone.

If the press leaks classified information that can compromise national security, then the government SHOULD find out their sources and prosecute both the leaker and the people in the press you helped leak the information.
I support the government using the phone records in this way. I would prefer the investigation be made public rather than in secret though.
Just because some pinhead at CNN thinks some secret government program is unconstitutional, does not give him the right to “out” that program if it means compromising our nation’s security.

I wonder how many of those opposed to the program are making inappropriate phone calls themselves? I on the other hand do not mind if the government knows I call my mother a few times a month, my wife calls me at work, or that I occasionally order a pizza. Are you telling me that the government knowing I prefer Pizza Hut to Dominoes is not worth preventing another 9/11?

Don’t let USA Today hear this. Tomorrow’s headline will be 3,501,000 people held prisoners in secret Asian gulags.

I would rather die a free American than cower in a corner, afraid and shivering. Fearmongers are taking away everything which was fought for to establish this country. We are becoming a nation of cowards who believe Big Brother will SAVE us. Newsflash. It won’t be you or me that gets saved.

All wars are follies, very expensive and very mischievous ones.
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Both the above quotes are from Benjamin Franklin, and I agree with them. It would seem that my government is a bit paranoid – to suggest that we are all “terroristic” and need to be watched and monitored shows that our nation is not fearful of GOD, but fearful of each other. Why don’t the Bushies and their fans believe their own rhetoric? God protects nations and individuals – but then again, God also protects THOSE PEOPLE – you know – the ones who “hate us because we’re free!” When you start having to show your papers at every intersection, and a federal identification card or better yet, an implanted chip is inserted in your hand, will you still be free? Give me my right to bear arms, my freedom to say and do as I choose, and my GOD WILL PROTECT ME – I don’t need a wanna be, lying, deceitful, and corrupt government to do it for me. What is wrong with you people?

I demand Bush’s resignation. Effective immediately.

Someone mentioned an analogy recently: imagine that your civil rights are like a handfull of sand, slowly dropping from your hand. That’s how hard it is to get them back. And Ron, as a daughter of a WWII veteran and hero, I disagree with your comment. My German/Irish-American father fought in WWII to preserve the same rights you are ready to let slip away. The government should never use terrorism as an excuse to cover their butts politically by going after reporters in a blantant illegal fashion, thereby attacking rights of all Americans. This stinks of fascism, which is what we fought against in WWII.

I see nothing that says the government is listening to conversations, but is observing call patterns to determine who is aiding the enemy. If Al-Qaeda is calling here, the call patterns can lead to the sleeper cells in this country.
I am not worried.
The press today would have given Japan a heads-up on the atom bomb, and the bomber might have been shot down.

Get real & get over it….If you commit a crime, law enforcement will pull your phone records at any level. If the FBI is looking for people who are leaking classified information, seems logical they’d look at phone records. The lesson is, don’t break the law or deal with folks who do. The bottom line is law enforcement is trying to keep us safe from traitors & terrorists. Bush is not the enemy.

Any terrorist reading this thread must feel pretty good watching so many of us waving our “Freedom First” flag. It’s thinking like this that emboldens them as they watch and cheer while we attempt to emasculate any chance we have of stopping them.
When Ben Franklin said,”Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety,” he hadn’t seen Independance Hall or other symbols of our country blown to pieces and accompanied by a large loss of life.
As mushroom clouds appear over our cities who will you blame? President Bush, of course, for not doing enough to protect us.
We are at war folks. There are people out there who want us dead. At the very least we should try to stop them.

I guess we forget that Clinton did this and much more with his little Echelon program that recorded any and all digital communications in this country for years. He ever used Echelon for his personal use. Now that Bush is doing something that pails in comparison post 9-11 you are all ready to lynch him. Where is your condemnation for Clinton? Oh that’s right, he’s your little darling and you can’t say anything that might hurt Shrillery from running in ’08. Pathetic!

Let the government protect us. Those who criticize the government for investigating suspected terrorists would be the first blame the government for not doing enough if America was attached again. You can’t have it both ways. It’s pretty clear that most Americans don’t care if the government looked at their phone records.

Barret,
Do you realize that you are trying to justify the current administration’s wrong doing by saying that Clinton did it too?
If one person breaks the law, it doesn’t mean that everyone who subsequently breaks the same law isn’t a criminal.

The Main Stream Media has made it their business to sabotage every covert exercise in the Gov’t thus undermining the protection of the public. This behavior is tantamount to treason during a time of war and I don’t believe it’s to much to monitor who they are in contact with to determine Who is leaking and Who is getting inside information. I don’t know how producers and reporters can sleep at night after knowingly committing treasonous acts and placing American interests and American lives in harms way.

What reporters? Al Jazeera, or the NYT or other pro-terror organizations? There is no provision in the concept of ‘freedom of the press’ to exempt reporters from the law.
If the media is involved in obtaining intelligence and transmitting it to to our enemies under cover of being ‘journalists’, law enforcement ahs an obligation to do whatever is allowed under the law to monitor and disrupt this.
The NYT, WaPo, US News, Al Jazeera, etc. have gone out of their way to disclose legitimate secrets of this nation. They hold themselves above the law and refuse any sort of accountability that would apply to any other citizen. we are not second class citizens to the journalists. They are not elites, immune from the laws the rest of us live under.
If there is evidence that journalists, priests, nuns, lawyers or anyone else is breaking the law, their job title does not confer a pass on evidentiary and enforcement activities.

Reminds me of what Clinton was doing in 1999.

As a conservative I feel that it is important that the government not investigate innocent citizens. I thought conservatives were fearful of big-government, if not for fear of it being expensive, but also for fear that it, with all of its vast resources that we pay for, can turn its efforts against the very citizens it was intended to protect.

I’ve got nothing to hide… look away. the same people who oppose the tapping of these phone are most likely the same people to bash government and anyone else the first time something goes wrong in america… like a terroist attack by the people we’re “tapping”

Since ABC commits treason on a daily basis with their anti military, anti American reporting, I applaud the FBI’s understandable seizing of the phone records.

If you think the government is bad for asking phone companies for a list of numbers which they really don’t need in the first place. Thay could just buy the numbers from anyone one of a dozen or more of companies that sell that information.
Try this buy something you don’t need or want and watch all the junk mail come to you with in a week. Corporations know everything about you, your habits, hobbies, likes and dislikes. And yet people continue to give this information freely every day. And all I hear is people saying it is for our protection, Thats fine as long as it is monitored by an outside department to ensure that we are not losing are consitutional rights.
Data mining is useful in tracking terrists and stopping them in carring out there acts.
For reporters that wish to write a story that they have investigated and to be true should write it and have it published where it can and let the chips fall where they may, but I am tired of a story where the information is coming from some unknown person(s), I fell like from that point-on that the story is just made up, no facts to the story just someone said something and Iam to believe it. State who said what and back it up with facts, That is all I ask, simple right.

We are putting Hussein on trial for killing his political enemies from within. Thankfully, Bush can’t do this not to say he wouldn’t. Bush is doing damage control by rooting out his political enemies. Only Father Bush has the ways and means to protect his “good boy”. When Father pushes dies from old age this whole house of cards will come crashing in on “W”

I’m all for it. Then when the Dems take back the House, Senate and Presidency, we can watch all of these same ‘supporters’ come back here and complain about how the Democrats are prying into their privacy. What comes around, goes around. Enjoy.

“Trust our Government”?
“Must have something to hide”?
“Clinton did it so it’s okay”?
“This isn’t our father’s time”?
—This is Nazi talk—
All of you that think that the government CAN provide you with security are so deluded.
And those that endorse this war for oil are endorsing Fascism.

Is the FBI monitoring this? Does posting my identity here make me a target of the FBI if I say that I think the FBI is stepping over the line?
This sort of thing makes you wonder: who watches the watchers?
Traditionally, the answer has been the press.
Now the watchers want to neutralize the press.
So who watches the watchers now?
What is at stake here is nothing less than the future of the republic. Sixty-five years ago, the last time we suffered an attack on American soil, F.D.R. told us that we have nothing to fear but fear itself. After 9/11/2001, we gave into fear.
Now this fear is turning inward; I’m a lot more afraid of the FBI, Homeland Security, the NSA, and the CIA than I am of Osama bin Laden. bin Laden does not have the power to destroy our democracy. The intelligence community does if we exempt it from judicial oversight.
I’m so afraid that I don’t even want to reveal my identity. Who is to say a resurgent McCarthyism won’t sweep the internet for “terrorist sympathizers.”
Finally, a short message to the so-called “conservatives” who support the Bush administration. A true conservative would stand for the defense of the Constitution. The Republican party today is many things, but it is not conservative.

Since your story remarks that your agency was aware that this was a ‘secret’ program undertaken in the interest of national security during wartime – I believe that your publicizing this information constitutes treason. I will ask for confirmation of this – but to release US intelligence information – basically giving it to the enemy – places Americans at great risk.
Sure it is an easy, inflammatory story – much of what goes on in wartime would turn the stomach and upset most people. That’s why it’s called war and not Easter brunch.
I think you are a danger to the safety of American citizens.

Great Post… Hawkeye…
Also…Just because you think you should now doesn’t mean you need to know….Just because you have the have the right to know doesn’t give you the need to know….This is from experience…When someone is given a security clearance….They are given that as a method of being able to have access to the classified information necessary to do there job…If they don’t need to know something to do the job…They wont be cleared for it…There are multiple levels of classification…
1. Unclassified
2. FOUO ( For official Use Only)
3. Sensitive But Unclassified
4. Confidential
5. Secret
6. Top Secret
7. (SCI) Specialy Compartmented Information
8. SAP (Special Access Program) AKA Codeword
Even if you have access to some SCI or SAP stuff that doesn’t give you access to all of it…However if something changes as a result of something you have done been able to asist someone with and you have shown cause for being given a new key to a new lock…You will usually get it…But The general population isn’t given the stuff because they don’t know how to keep there mouth shut….There are thing s that happen that if people knew about some of them whould have a hard time functioning or sleeping….That is why everyone doesn’t know…When people get arrested for a drug charge because they were on the terror database profile does that make the illlegal activity that they were doing right ? No of course not….If they only reason they found out about it was the profiling they should be able to get the charges dismissed. If they weren’t breaking the law though they would have nothing to worry about….
Remember, classified information is classified for the security of the country. I do not have a problem with the government using necessary, lawful means (which is what we’re discussing here) to find out who leaked classified information. Leaking classified information is treasonous. And reporters are notorious for printing anything they deem “news” without regard to the safety of the country.

Yes, I am sick with anger about this intrusion into our rights, and the reason stems more from the fact that this is a direct action *against* the American people rather than the illegality of the action. Add to that the lie (of how many others he’s told?) since 2001 about the NSA’s surveillence and that makes me want him out of office.
Why have the American public not stood up to the abuses and removals of personal freedoms for the last 5-6 years? Of what are we afraid?
I’m a permanently disabled senior citizen, but I still use my voice to add to others. I also spread the word to my friends who think differently from me and when I am finished explaining the facts, they have a better understanding of what has occurred. Since I am not a fortune teller, I cannot predict what the next horrific intrusion will be.
Nevertheless, why are the American people (in general) just talking about how badly we’ve been treated and not calling upon our “elected” officials and demanding changes?
I cannot speak for anyone else and can make generalizations only, but nothing seems to have changed, which is why I ask the above question.

Personally, I believe most of the main-stream media, and a large portion of our government, is anti-American. They choose to level America rather than raise up lesser nations to our status as a way of ‘levelling the playing field’. Well, I should say, they do believe in elevating other nations in the arms race, just not in terms of freedoms, equality, education, health-care, etc.
However, in America, the burden of proof is on the accuser, unless you’re a woman, or a ‘minority’, or a reporter, or a senator, etc…

I still have found no source on who posted that the FBI or anyone else is targeting reporters.
Can anyone post the exact URL of the orginial person who reported this story?

With all of the praise and glory given to the media who “uncover” classified information and report it without much thought of long term consequences, except of course the narcisistic glory associated with a Pulitzer,- I would only ask one question- If law enforcement has judicial oversight and the judiciary has both congressional and popular oversight- what sort of eversight exists for the media?

Hehehe … it is a bittersweet victory to be so right about media bias.

It’s all the government’s fault! The corporations pull the government’s strings and, this is only a test, but then they get all corporation-y and bad equals good and since our baby-blenders need oil to operate we need to end women’s suffrage!

this country was built on the backs of slaves…the only difference is their are no slaves in the fields anymore…look at the person next to you in you job…you are the slaves now…you just don’t realize it…log in and log out…this is when your lunch is…while all these rich people get more tax breaks and more benefits…read the Bible people…all of this is foretold…WATCH OUT THE MICROCHIP IN YOUR HAND IS COMING SOON….and if you read the Bible (no matter which version) you’ll understand why…eventually only people with the mark of the beast will eat.

Those who would give up their privacy and freedoms for the promise of more ‘security’ deserve neither freedom nor security.
If you’re not willing to fight the good fight to preserve the US Constitution, then get out of the US.

One other person in recent history also used, so called “necessary and lawful means” to completely insulate his actions from the public, to the point where he later became, by law, completely untouchable. If the public were to know what its government does in secret, there would be many raised eyebrows. Secrecy is the problem, not the solution. Every move the government makes must be scrutinized by the public, not the other way around. It’s the ultimate form of checks and balances. It keeps tyrants and squirrelly thinkers at bay from promulgating dark and evil adventure in the name of the public. This way, as so many unfortunate souls in recent history recanted, can not wake up in the morning and lamely claim that they just didn’t know!

Im sure the simple fact that I am writing this will be picked up by the administration! Why do they evesdrop on our reporters here and not do anything about al-jazeera, who has obvious contacts to al-queda!! The abuse by our governement is astounding. Soon, any words critisizing the administration will be considered support of the terrorists!!

Some people just don’t get it! They say in the name of democracy, we can’t interogate terrorist prisoners to get information to save US citizens if the interrogation makes the terrorist “uncomfortable;” we can’t “monitor” terrorist phone calls because we must extend US constitutional rights to terrorists; we can’t do premptive strikes in order to keep the terrorists off of US soil because they didn’t strike first and or course “Bush lied”???. Yet, as soon as the terrorists stike, these are the first people who blame the President for not doing enough to protect them. What a sad state we live in where people quit thinking about what is necessary to protect our citizens, but instead make all decisions and statments based on their own selfish agenda. Thank goodness that we have a President who doesn’t govern base on political polls! I feel safer knowing that he is doing what is necessary to keep us safe!

Valarie Plame and Brewster Jennings. Apparently it is OK for the Bush adminstration to leak a CIA covert operatives identity and the name of her covert company operation but reporters need to be spied on for their sources. Why don’t we have the best intelligence coming out of Iran? Because someone in the Bush adminstration leaked Valarie Plame and Brewster Jennings to at least Robert Novak (I call it treason) if not other friendly right wing reporters. That leak caused our intelligence to be blown out of the water in Iran. Good Going Bushies. Let’s put our military in even more of harms way! Treason, it is, Treason it has always been. When looking for sources of leaks let us look no further than the West Wing of the White House!
When logic and comman sense fails be sure and shout that liberals hate America. How tiresome and lame you righties are getting. Yawn

thats so funny-It is the liberal left press that is always demanding info under the freedom of info act.But when it is used against them all of the sudden the gov. is a hitler state and the gov. is an evil empire. How many time did Clinton use the FBI and gov. to spy on his enemies?

I think it is a GREAT idea and they should do more of it! And when they find out who is leaking confidential information, they should hang them AND the reporters for TREASON, just like the founding fathers used to do in their day!!!!

Many of you folks are letting your dislike of the current administration color your view on what really is a nothing news story.
1) If a News reporter publishes classified information, then the government has every right, and actually has a definate need to figure out their source, and stop it. Classified information is classified for a reason, and those handling it need to understand their responsibility in protecting it.
2) The FBI requested nothing more than a list of phone numbers called. Phone companies collect these things on their own for marketing, and demographics.
While I am not entirely fond of this administration, this issue is not something that is tied into a Free press, or personal privacy. The people leaking this classified information need to be found and prosecuted.

It is already proven that C-SPAN Washington Journal callers are regularly traced and logged! Beware of your calls being traced and used against you!

Let me get this straight, we have militant Islamist who want to kill every man woman and child in the West. Our news media leaks information about what is being done to identify these people. If this were 1942 and if CNN had existed and leaked information to the Nazis or Japanese about how we were spying on them, they both had cells in the US, would the same liberal Democrats be shouting about privacy. Ron

Operation Northwoods – just because you don’t believe doesnt mean it didn’t happen.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662

Anyone ever statistically figure out what the odds of us getting killed or maimed by a terrorist are? You would probably win the lottery more than once before you get hit by a terrorist. Of coarse by then, you would have died falling out of bed 10 times over. If you want to be scared of the “boogieman” (aka terrorist), go right ahead. Just keep the wool blanket over your own head, and stop trying to pull it over mine! Brave americans indeed.

Part A. Reporters are publishing classified information they recieved from spys/leaks on how we are monitoring terrorists here in the United States, tipping them off that we are on to them and thus helping them to elude our security forces so they can remain free to slaughter our families.
Part B. U.S. Security forces use phone records to find out who is the spy/leak in our security apparatus that is giving classified info to the reporters and helping the terrorists on our soil evade capture.
Part C. American Citizens with an ounce of Common Sense applaud the Security forces doing their jobs to keep our families safe.
End of story.

-I do not use drugs.
-I pay all due taxes.
-I do not drive if I drink.
-I am not a pedophile.
-I am not a rapist.
-I do not steal.
-I am not a journalist
-I am not an attorney
-I am not an Insurance Company owner
Can anybody explain to me the reasons for which I should be against tracking down potential terrorist that in the 2006 are still willing to die in order to find on the Other Side 75 Virgines?

It’s not even about what’s going on now, this is about what’s been going on for thousands of years
Ephesians 6:11-13 (New International Version-Bible)
11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.”
Matthew 5:43-45
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”

I have nothing to hide from anyone, but thats not the point. The point is that no Government, nor agency of the Government has the RIGHT to be so intrusive, and so illegal about getting personal information of the tax paying citizens of America. As far as my personal views go, The Patriot Act is the biggest and most illegal scam the US Government has ever enacted, and the fact that George Bush thinks he is the law is even more disturbing. Ladies & Gentlemen, the Patriot Act abolishes 5 of the first 7 Amendments to the US Constitution, and it wont stop their…Trust me. It’s only a matter of time before an even worse “Terror Attack” happens on US soil, and I have a feeling that more of our freedoms/Amendments will be abolished after that. WAKE UP AMERICA!!!! Because before you know it, you’ll be waking up in a Fascist State !!!!
“Give me Liberty, or give me Death !”

liberals are as bad as terrorists and liberal reporters are even worse. lock them all up! it will make all much safer

First, this is nothing new people. Does anyone study History anymore. The FBI did this during WWII and a lot more.
President Lincoln even threw a few reporters & politicians in jail during the civil war for opposing him in the war of the states.
There is such a thing called sedition and I think it needs to be used on several of these socalled “honest” reporters.
Personally, I could care less if they got my phone records I’ve got nothing to hide. They aren’t taking away any of our civil liberties. They are not coming into our homes and searching. They are going to a public telephone company getting records. Big whoop.
It is when they say you can’t call this person or that is when they are trying to take them away.
Bottom line, we are in a war against a society that wants the whole world to be muslim or dead. The government needs to do what ever they can to prevent another 911 or worse. And it will be worse.
One last thing. Don’t know about you, but I am tired of both parties. They are ALL full of crap. Time to vote in an “American Party”.

It’s not “You have nothing to fear unless you’re doing something wrong.”
It’s “You have nothing to fear unless the government is doing something wrong.”
SearingTruth

“Federal law enforcement sources..” are cited as the source for the “facts” that reports are being investigated.
If these people think this is important enough to break their secrecy agreements and provide this information to reporters, they should be brave enough to put their name behind it. Oh wait, instead they are acting as “spies” for the reporters, so i guess that makes it ok.
Please, my mother taught me to believe nothing of what I heard, and only half of what I saw with my own eyes – meaning – just because someone says something is happening, you as the reader do not know all the facts, and have nothing to base any form of “judgement” on. When they start locking reporters up for no reason, then I would start being upset.
By the way, if these requests are in line with the law that they were enacted under, then you should blame CONGRESS for writing laws that suck, not the people that take advantage of them.

“We need not debate the existence of our three branches of government, only the punishment for those who would destroy them.”
SearingTruth

Its funny how you seem to be so worked up about the Government gaining access to your “personal” information. They already have claim to your “legal name” permanent address, and of course your social security number- not to mention your “taxable income.”
What more personal information would ANYONE need to infiltrate your privacy?
this battle was lost a long time ago.
Just stop complaining. You voted for the representation who makes these laws.
Or worse yet, you probably didn’t even show up to the poles. again, stop complaining.

By my calculations, that is just under 0.001% of the US population. Obviously a huge outrage.

“Tyranny is always preceded by the loss of just a ‘little’ liberty.”
SearingTruth
“Who will fight, when surrender is of more comfort.”
SearingTruth

If a reporter is engaged in breaking the law, why should they not be held liable for their actions the same as anyone else? Can a CIA employee tell anything he or she wants to someone simply because they are a reporter? Hell no…

While we are throwing quotes around: “Those who give up liberty for security, deserve neither.”
Ben Franklin had it right. If you don’t like it, go live under some dictatorship elsewhere. We, the real American patriots, aren’t going to let you set one up here.

If the federal government were not doing anything and everything to attempt to prevent future terrorist attacks, these same people would be screaming about that too. I prefer that they err on the side of caution and listen to my boring phone conversations. Those who seem so outraged have an overactive imagination that anyone cares what they are doing…

This is flagrant illegality in the name of order.
We’ve seen that before. We’ve seen a powerful nation use military might to impose what it couldn’t gain through leadership.
We’ve seen demonization of ethnic groups to inflame passions and put one group outside the law.
We’ve seen surveillance states “defend” their own people from themselves.
If it’s wrong for Germans, then it’s wrong for us.
Bush must go. The refusal of the Democratic and Republican leadership to impeach Bush and Cheney (and their whole team) is a crime against the constitution…
…especially when Clinton got impeached for a minor lie about his personal business. I’m not a Democrat. Never voted for them in my life. But this is flagrant disregard and the people have spoken.
We’re done with this whole culture of war, surveillance, torture and fear.
Bush must go NOW.

To consolidate power, the ploy of a tyrannical leader is always obvious. By amplifying a perceived problem which plays upon public emotions, fed by fits of fanaticism, it then becomes easy to issue new laws that will supposedly resolve the problem. But, unbeknownst to the public the new laws will certainly never be favorable to the citizen, only to power. In an atmosphere of chaos, it is always much easier to rearrange the playing field. In this same atmosphere, any dissenting voice becomes a political threat, enemy of the state, unlike minds that threaten power, metaphors which can easily be twisted into: a terrorist who needs to be persecuted and rooted out. Every dissenting voice on this Blog questioning this power becomes a target! Paranoid yet? You should be. In some cases paranoia will save your life. Or, go on back to sleep! Everything is just fine in Disneyland, as long as Dorothy is kept from looking behind the curtain.

THANK GOODNESS!!!

Anyone who trusts ANY politician with unchecked, unlimited, wiretapping abilities whether it’s George Bush, Hilary Clinton, Harry Browne or Ralph Nader is not only a fool but doesn’t understand the intent of the 4th amendment, for those of you asleep in civics class it says the following:
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
This has been further interpreted in recent years to prohibit the ability of the executive to order warrant less searches:
“Warrantless ”National Security” Electronic Surveillance .–In Katz v. United States, 151 Justice White sought to preserve for a future case the possibility that in ”national security cases” electronic surveillance upon the authorization of the President or the Attorney General could be permissible without prior judicial approval. The Executive Branch then asserted the power to wiretap and to ”bug” in two types of national security situations, against domestic subversion and against foreign intelligence operations, first basing its authority on a theory of ”inherent” presidential power and then in the Supreme Court withdrawing to the argument that such surveillance was a ”reasonable” search and seizure and therefore valid under the Fourth Amendment. Unanimously, the Court held that at least in cases of domestic subversive investigations, compliance with the warrant provisions of the Fourth Amendment was required”
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution
/amendment04/05.html#6
Further Benjamin Franklin said:
“Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
http://www.historicaldocuments.com/HistoricQuotes.htm
Did any of you supporters of unlimited “unitary” presidential power actually pay attention in civics class? No I didn’t think so… Thankfully only constitute 29% of the population…

Yes, Trystann, you are correct. And he was even more specific about governments utilizing panic as a weapon. Here is his full divulgence of wisdom:
“They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!

There was a time when Americans understood: “Loose Lips Sink Ships”. Now, it seems there is a desperation from some segments of our political spectrum to leak national security techniques to ensure enemies know how to circumvent them.
When Cindy Sheehan came to our home town, the Communist Party newspaper was handed out at the door to attendees. Inside, we were told outright that the goal of Ms. Sheehan and the Veterans for Peace group is to eliminate the US military by deterring potential enlistees. This would make the world more safe for other forms of ‘civilization’ to seek dominance.
Wake UP, America!

Hey folks, sounds like some of you are listening to too much talk radio – and these people talking, by the way, are giving their opinions, they aren’t college grads or anything (not that you need to be). just because it SOUNDS good doesn’t mean it’s right.

So many experts on the law. So few genuine thinkers.
If this is not a country of laws, then it is not a country.
So many demand freedoms, and yet lack the fortitude to see things as they are. They show themselves for who they are, the weak.
To those that are opposed to instruments that ensure their own freedom and security, who will they beseech the next time.
Pray you are not touched.

The government collects phone records tied to known enemies of the US in an attempt to thwart attacks on its citizens and interests, and a portion of the
hysteria minded individuals immediately assume it is an attack on their ‘Constitutional’ rights.
But only when President Bush is in office.
If you are really concerned with your ‘Constitutional rights’, then you should take a cold hard look at what has been going on in our federal courts. Your right
to free speech is limited by how much someone else is ‘Offended’.

It really is the oldest trick in the book
Every tyrant from the time of the Greeks on has used the same moves. Declare a states of emergency, subvert democracy, and become a dictator. People fall for it, because most people are gutless. and feel safe under the protection of what they at first see as bonevolent ruler. It is exactly what happened to the Germans in the nineteen thirties and we know how that turned out. Well America might be ready for an iron fist, every democracy gets one eventually. The people have become self absorbed, live mostly for their petty comforts, and would rather hand over the state to a so called unitary power than participate. Perhaps our great nation is in it’s last moments. I sure expected more back bone in a people who have lived so free.

For those who believe that computer surveillance is not dangerous, think twice. Computers “think” digitally, it means only “yes” or “not”. You never know what can trigger that “yes”. And once you are “yes”, the computers (and the people who take the information from them) never forget or correct themselves. Be very afraid.
Every day we hear the stories of the people who come to the airport, and surprise: they are told that they cannot fly and many times are arrested. We apparently don’t inquire enough what it takes to be released, which of course does not mean that next time it won’t happen again.
The garbage that so many bureacrats and government agents feed in the computers and HIDE FROM US is a new WMD.

“eclare a states of emergency, subvert democracy, and become a dictator.”
If you think the US Military is going to support a dictatorship, you truly are deluded.
The guys and gals in the military do follow orders, but they also know what America stands for (I was in the military, and have friends still in the military). The good thing is, many Americans own guns, so if ANY Presdient ever tried to declare a dictatorship, they would have quite a fight on their hands.
People need ot get a grip :)

It is criminal when tyrants promulgate and then utilize LAWS to defend the throne of power they have usurped. Because it is law, are we to think that any law then is worthy of defense? I think not! The term law and national security have been so abused and misused today that it is beyond laughable. If I were a tyrant, I too would not want any media intrusion into my illicit activity either and I would make every effort to rein it in or muzzle it. Yeah, let’s make it the law so government abuse becomes illegal to scrutinize; let’s make it law so that we can round up dissenting voices, in the middle of the night and execute them. If it’s the law, it certainly must be okay. Get of the Prozac and Wake the Hell up People!!!
We have no Constitution. We live under Corporate Law, driven by the military industrial complex. We worship the god of war, whose voracious appetite is satisfied by a very large chunk of federal tax dollars.

“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities” – Voltaire. This quote speaks volumes in light of what is going on right here in this blog, and in our country as a whole. I am not paranoid, but I am very careful and thoughtful of what is being said by this administration. We should all be open-minded of everything we are being told. As much as the Daily Show claims to be “fake news”, they continually bring out factual information and routinely “catch” this administration in bold-faced lies; one after another. It’s amazing to me that it takes a self-proclaimed “fake” news show to show what is really going on. I challenge those of you who think this administration is out for our best interest to watch the Daily Show for just one week. I truly believe that it might turn a few heads. I feel a need to clarify that this is, by no means, my only source for news, but it is the only source of news that takes away the sadness, even if just for a short time, of what is happening in our country.

The laws are on the books for everyone to see, if you can read this blog you can do the research. Same for the constitution and federal articles, etc.
Free speech is consistently misstated. It doesn’t mean anybody can say anything anytime; it’s framed by public laws.
The press can’t break the law and claim free speech protection. And anyone in their right mind knows it has to be that way.
They can hold the government accountable and should. Trouble is they spew spam as fast as they can, and then research and put how they were wrong in the microprint, or just how they were misinterpreted…..hold the media responsible for truth and factual information no bias, otherwise we are all toast.
The framers of our constitution didn’t trust congress then, which is why executive power is granted to the President. If you have a “dictator” as some now claim, the Legislative and Judicial Branch of the Government have the power to remove the dictator.
Our elected officials are bound to uphold the laws of the USA. So my question to those spewing -
Why do you elect Senators and Representatives that scream laws are broken, but take no action to prosecute? Make your voice heard, hold your politician accountable. If they misrepresent, call them on it.
No rights of mine have been lost; in fact I have more access to information as to what my rights are, and what the law is now than ever before. More accesses to verify or invalidate rants than ever.
Use you brain, do the research, seek both sides, then support your rants with facts, not one persons opinion, or what you political bias wants to be true.
Hold our elected officials accountable for enforcing the laws, and for working together to protect and do the right thing for the country. Yell at them when all the do is spew, we put them in office to run the country to the laws of it, legislate when necessary to make law, not get the faces in front of the camera to get reelected.
Bush, Kennedy, Frist, Reid, McCain etc are bound to protect the boarders of the US for sovereignty and security. If 11 million people can enter illegally, a dozen terrorists bent on killing millions of US citizens can also.
Protect our citizens 1st, secure the borders. Then deal with immigration, amnesty, guest workers via the political process and laws on the books.

Glad to see that so many have gotten involved with this thread! Now take that passion out and live it in the real world…don’t be cow-ed into submission. The government must serve the people or be changed. Send a very clear message to your representatives that are supposed to serve you. As I said before, I’m not an American. But, I try to have great hope that America can shake this disease from it’s system. This disease is fear. Do not allow fear to silence you. Get radically involved with the way your government behaves. Look at Venezuela and Bolivia…rich minorities were sitting pretty on the oil wealth while the masses starved! They changed their governments….and now Venezuela is selling gas at cheap prices to your poor!! Where is your sense of community? You should be ashamed of yourselves that your representatives have gotten so side tracked from the real issues of building a community. People, you have great power to bring about change, but you must get organized and have very clear goals in mind. Wake up Americans…learn from other Americans to the south and to the north….relearn how to build a civilization….how to build a community…a healthy society. Don’t allow your servants to spy on you, keep you in mediocrity, and pretend that it’s excellence. You can do so much better.

ABC broke it’s story at the same time the story about William Jefferson D. La was hitting the wires, It looks like ABC was trying to take some heat off the democrat by coming up with this bogus report on Hastert.

We – Whats this we stuff?
Has nothing to do with WE.
Has everyhting to do with Them</b).
They control the media, and everything else.

Readers of this ‘blog’ who might have interest in security clearance obtaining matters should be interested in the following information. A recently constructed psychological-type ‘test’, the Personnel Security Standards Psychological Questionnaire (PSSPQ), has been shown, through repeated research, to be able to accurately predict success/failure to be eventually granted high-level security clearance status for those being processed (or planning to be processed) for same. The PSSPQ was developed by a seasoned psychologist who, several years ago, retired from federal service when being the Chief Research Psychologist in the USA’s largest intelligence agency.

How about we quite whining about the privacy of journalists and worry about the potential abuses of this on the average american public.