Strong Evidence Against Poland Despite Official Denials of Secret Prisons
EmailThere is strong evidence that a secret CIA prison was set up in Poland and that airport officials accepted thousands of dollars in cash for landing fees for CIA planes, according to the European Parliament’s draft report on extraordinary rendition and secret prisons. Poland has long denied any involvement. In an interview with ABC News last year, the Polish Defense Minister denied the existence of any secret prison in his country. "The President of Poland has said that there is no truth to these reports," said Radoslaw Sikorski. THE BLOTTER RECOMMENDS 1,245 Secret CIA Flights Revealed by European Parliament Map CIA Rendition Flight Stopovers in Europe Click Here to Check Out Who’s Blowing Hot, Cool and Smoke on the Brian Ross Homepage Yet the EU investigators conclude that in light of the evidence they found, "a temporary secret detention facility may have been located at the intelligence training centre at Stare Kiejkuty." The EU committee says they found evidence that on some occasions the CIA Gulfstream jets did not have to clear customs and that "landing fees were paid in cash and overpriced — usually between EUR 2000 and EUR 4000 [$2,632 and $5,265]." The report also cites interviews with airport employees who said that vehicles would wait for the arrivals of the planes, and no Polish civilian or military staff were permitted to approach the planes. One employee reported following one of the vehicles and seeing it head towards the intelligence training center. "This is reasonable grounds for thinking there really was a prison in Poland where the CIA held suspects," said Stephen Grey, a British journalist and author of "Ghost Plane: The True Story of the CIA Torture Program." "The suspicion is reasonable based on their behavior and their attempts to at a cover-up," said Grey. The committee also strongly condemns the lack of cooperation by the Polish government in their investigation. "There were contradictory statements and confusion about flight logs for the above-mentioned CIA flights, which were first said not to have been retained, then said to have been faxed and destroyed and finally said to have been saved in an unspecified place," says the report. Romania, which had also previously denied the CIA flew there, was found to have been the location for about 21 stopovers.
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You GO Poland. Alright!
Posted by: David | November 29, 2006, 11:50 am 11:50 am
Who CARES!!!! Why does the media insist on exploiting the United States??? The CIA is trying to interrogate terrorists or POTENTIAL terrorists in a secretive manner. Let it be!!! The MEDIA is the United States worst enemy in the war on terrorism and the war in Iraq! If a soldier spread secrets like this, they would be killed or in prison. But when the media does it, nothing happens!! Is your sole purpose to make the United States look like the bad guys and the biggest screw ups? Good god! Get a new job and support the United States instead of try to bring it down!
Posted by: Michael | November 29, 2006, 2:04 pm 2:04 pm
Bush tortures, Putin poisons, both want to increase their executive powers. They’re rather alike, these power hungry sleaze-meisters.
Posted by: Herb | November 29, 2006, 2:45 pm 2:45 pm
are you kidding me mike? First of all this was a report by the EU and ABC news is reporting on it. Do you not want to know what happens around the world? Do you favor government censorship of the media? Damn have some common sense. PLus we all agree terrorists should be interagated, just not tortured in secret prisons around the globe where they can’t challenge their detention and are plucked from their homes. We need to follow some kind of laws and precedent or a lot of innocent people are going to be swept up in this, some already have been. Tell me do you support the CIA going around the world and US grabbing who ever they think is a terrorist, whisking them away to a secret prison to be tortured to get information? The information would also probably be false because people will say anything to stop the torture. Thus leading to an arrest of another innocent man. Please think.
Posted by: james | November 29, 2006, 2:55 pm 2:55 pm
The question is do we want our government whisking people away to secret prisons to be tortured. Lets do this the american way and bring them in question them, have a trial, and lock them away in jail. Remember the war on terror never ends.
Posted by: andrew Khouri | November 29, 2006, 2:57 pm 2:57 pm
Why blame the media for making us look bad…I think we are doing a fine job on our own.
Posted by: joe74 | November 29, 2006, 3:02 pm 3:02 pm
Why is it wrong to torture these animals? They aren’t even human beings. Nothing is more important than doing everything possible to preserve OUR way of life. The media hates Bush more than they love their country….
Posted by: robert | November 29, 2006, 3:09 pm 3:09 pm
michael, you are correct.
david – everyone cares. the usa is not practicing what it preaches. this is a very dangerous precident the USA is setting. in the time of the patriot act, secret torture prisons, and misled/misguided war(s), george orwell is rolling over is in grave. the media isn’t “exploiting” the us/cia — they are doing it to themselves.
Posted by: michael #2 | November 29, 2006, 3:32 pm 3:32 pm
Ok we don’t play poker and show our hand . Why is the Us media trying to point out all of out hakilis heels.
I understand freedom of the press but what about integrety
Posted by: john robb | November 29, 2006, 3:39 pm 3:39 pm
I agree with David and Michael about 2000%!
Posted by: Billie | November 29, 2006, 4:10 pm 4:10 pm
I am glad that Poland is not a hypocrite like some other European countries and finds nothing wrong in allowing islamo-fascist to be interrogated on its territory. Congratulations to Poland and the CIA.
Posted by: Michael J. | November 29, 2006, 4:39 pm 4:39 pm
This is NOT the America I grew up to love and respect. CIA secret prison camps in a foreign country?—we should all be ashamed.
Posted by: Michael | November 29, 2006, 4:42 pm 4:42 pm
I don’t know how we are ever going to win this war if the very very few coutries willing to help us aren’t allowed to. Captured terrorist are going to have to be held somewhere – and I’m not talking about the Holiday Inn.
Personally I would prefer that we kill more of them and capture & detain less – I really don’t care about any bogus information they may or may not provide.
Posted by: Jim | November 29, 2006, 5:00 pm 5:00 pm
Quick question for all those who support these actions of our government, how long will it take before this kind of power comes home to roost? Where we see the loss of liberty, our own citizens being hauled out in the middle of the night and sent to a prison? Don’t assume that just because you Support our president and the troops means your safe, if you represent a challenge to power, your next regardless..think about it, please!
Posted by: Dan M | November 29, 2006, 5:15 pm 5:15 pm
I am deeply saddened Poland has engaged in this CIA activity for several reasons. Poland dishonors its greatest servant, Pope John Paul II. The Polish government dishonors the church, its saints, and the humble Polish people. While the Nazis put their extermination camps in Poland, now the comes the CIA with their secret prisions. How truly sad.
Posted by: Bern | November 29, 2006, 5:22 pm 5:22 pm
Why should everyone care about this at all? Well other than the fact that it violates just about every agreement made within the Geneva Convention NOT to violate general human rights, is that this fact, that Poland and American (plus other nations) conspired to illegally detain suspected terrorists, or friends/acquaintances of terrorists, actually makes Poland (and other nations) more appealing targets for terrorists. Plus, commenting on another user’s comments, Poland should have learned from the lessons of World War II. This IS truly a sad, pathetic situation of poor, poor judgment.
Posted by: Marek | November 29, 2006, 5:44 pm 5:44 pm
As a naturalized US citizen of Polish descent I am proud that the country of my birth (Poland) did its share in the global war of terror. But frankly some of the comments here don’t surpise me at all – this constant reference to interrogation techniques as ‘tortures’, equating terrorists to common criminals, constant scare tactics that somehow our own freedom is at risk (while ignoring obvious facts that US still offers more freedom than a typical european country) – all this is a specialty of the leftists in this country.
Posted by: Mark | November 29, 2006, 6:31 pm 6:31 pm
For all of you who say we should kill more of these “animals” or “killers”, remember there is a keyword you are forgetting, and that word is “suspected”. Would you really appreciated it if your son or daughter was wisked away to some secret prison and tortured because they were “suspected” of a crime? If we are so sure of our evidence against these individuals, why not bring them on American soil and question them? Think about that point.
Posted by: Al | November 29, 2006, 6:38 pm 6:38 pm
It is great to have the media to limit the government and keep them in line, but on the other hand it is very dangerous and hurtful to our country when these types of reports are made. For an example- would you rather be nosy and want to know what is at Area 51, OR would you want to mind your own business for the sake of our air force proceding with thier research to ensure our security? This is the same thing, we always wonder, but it is in the best interest to keep it quiet so we can actually make some headway in the war on terror. This is an intelligence war now.
Posted by: Jacob | November 29, 2006, 7:15 pm 7:15 pm
This is a global war, therefore, we need to be very aggressive in our techniques in gathering information. When the killers /arabs start wearing uniforms and proper identification then we can adhere to the geneva convention. Unil this takes place, they hold no rights under international law, and especially under the United States constitution.
Posted by: david herbrig | November 29, 2006, 11:44 pm 11:44 pm
I am not afraid of my son or daughter being ‘wisked away’ for interrogations in the middle of the night as some here imply. I don’t think US governmnet, CIA, FBI or NSA has the size or capacity to interrogate people that are plainly innocent. So please don’t feed me this left propaganda. I am firm believer that those who actually went through the CIA prisons had some role in the events leading or following 9/11. I am not going to shed any tears that they may end up being subjected to water boarding even if they ultimately prove to be too small a fish and get released.
Posted by: Martin | November 30, 2006, 2:46 am 2:46 am
Ah, once again we take the media’s word as gold. The article is written in past tense. I agree with John Robb – integrity – where is it with the press?
Posted by: Phil Bob | November 30, 2006, 8:23 am 8:23 am
To all of you who support the policy of secret prisons, etc. Remember that civil liberties are eroded gradually over time; this could well just be the first step. It is not a very large gap to the next step: deeming our own citizens who hold opposing political views/beliefs to be ‘enemies of the state’ and subject to secret removal. The best example that makes this a very real fear is the attempts of this administration to place more and more power at the executive branch and to do away with checks and balances so that they have to answer to no one. Remember also that Hitler for example was in power for 12 years, the greatest crimes of the Nazi regime did not occur over night. It was a gradual progression and escalation. And it is people of your mentalities -unquestioning faith in government, jingoism and nationalism masquerading as patriotism, etc. – who were ultimately responsible for allowing such a regime to come to power in the first place.
Often dissent is the greatest form of patriotism – because a dissenter knows that something is wrong, and because they do truly love their country they know it can be better, so they will chastise their government when it deserves to be chastised, much as a parent who truly loves their child will chastise them when need be because they want that child to grow up to be a responsible, respectable adult – not an arrogant bully.
One last comment, I would recommend that everyone go read Orwell’s 1984, the parallels are frightening.
Posted by: Sarah | November 30, 2006, 12:48 pm 12:48 pm
There are a lot of assumptions flying around regarding just who might have been detained in the alleged ‘Secret Prison’.
If we assume that the detainees were captured on the battlefield or in military actions inside a combat zone, and they weren’t in uniform, then they deserve no protection under the third (or first, or second) Geneva Conventions. Furthermore, maybe Marek would like to cite exactly which ‘International Law’ is being broken and the signature of the President who ratified US participation in that law.
While what we are doing MAY contravene what ‘reasonable people’ *think* is International Law, we probably aren’t. I think we can all deal with being frowned at by Amnesty International. The US is pretty much used to it.
Conversely, if the detainees are US Citizens, or foreign nationals not detained as a result of military action, then yes, a crime may have been committed.
Just to make the point – the legality or otherwise of these alleged ‘Secret Prisons’ is conditional on (1) the nature of the detainee, and (2) the laws of the country where the ‘secret prison’ is located.
Posted by: Bugaboo | November 30, 2006, 4:42 pm 4:42 pm
Interesting points you make there, Sarah. Maybe you could enumerate the parallels between Orwell’s 1984 and the USA?
* Last time I checked, the press, media and academia were full of people who would be committing Orwellian ‘ThoughtCrime’. And y’know, they’re still there, pulling a salary.
* The only “Two Minute Hate” I see is the sort of thing spouted by Keith Olberman and half of Hollywood. The analogy would be hundreds of Emmanuel Goldsteins denouncing Big Brother, and not the other way around.
* There are people insistent on controlling history, hence the present, hence the future. Hint – it’s not the government.
I note also your inference that there’s some kind of parallel between Hitler and the current administration. By invoking Godwin’s Law, you diminish your chances of being taken seriously.
Posted by: Bugaboo | November 30, 2006, 4:54 pm 4:54 pm
Those above who favour illegal and warrantless detention and interrogation (?torture), and some who even seem to advocate murder, should recall Cambodia, Argentina, South Africa under apartheid and other times in history where the ends were claimed to justify the means. This is a slippery slope, and some would say it is unworthy of a nation founded on principles of respect for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Posted by: Michael T. Darwyne | November 30, 2006, 9:25 pm 9:25 pm
Some of you are making a big leap of faith in the media and believing what they are alleging. “a temporary secret detention facility may have been located at the intelligence training centre at Stare Kiejkuty.” That’s it. The media doesn’t even claim to have any witnesses. They created a story where there wasn’t one. I have personally been directly involved in at least a dozen incidents that were reported in the television media. In not one single case was the information reported accurately. Even when I provided them proof that what they had reported was wrong they refused to correct their reports. So, based on my personal experiences I tend to not believe the media. And let’s not forget they have their own biases and agendas. The media tends to get revenge when people aren’t forthcoming with the information they request. If you don’t give them a story they will create one.
Posted by: Sam J. | November 30, 2006, 10:02 pm 10:02 pm
and let’s not forget that Bush’s BFF (best friend forever), Victor/Victoria Ashe is the current U.S. Ambassador to Poland -
he and Bush go all the way back to their college cheerleading days when they were “roommates” -
Ashe is well known in tennessee political circles for his flamboyance and crossdressing -
in the early 80′s, Ashe was the aspiring politician and Bush was one of his “camp” followers on the campaign trail, when Ashe promoted himself to the voters as “Bulldog” -
gee, where have i heard THAT before??? -
we can all rest assured knowing that the Keeper of the Keys to the Polish gulags is doin’ a heckuva job -
Posted by: Ethyline | December 1, 2006, 5:04 am 5:04 am
Our hakilis heels will surely do all of us in! Hee-hee
Posted by: Ed | December 4, 2006, 8:37 pm 8:37 pm
Some of you would not pull the fire alarm in a burning building.
Thank God that the Baker/Hamilton group were willing to do so–since the intervention of a responsible press has long been ignored. No one wants to bring down our country. But we want it to be honest and be what it says it stands for.
Posted by: Larry | December 7, 2006, 9:08 am 9:08 am
Oh muy goodness! Once again the media drumming up another story on the “poor, hopeless, defenseless” terrorists or terrorists wanna-be. And we ran out of Kleenex with all the tears you have to shed!
Posted by: Pete | December 8, 2006, 1:16 pm 1:16 pm