Why is Hollywood So Liberal?

One fatal flaw in the hypothesis: “If social conservatives had their way and American culture was remade in the manner they advocate–Hollywood would take a beating.”
Typing as a social conservative (and if I can speak for ‘us’), “we” want the market to dictate what Hollywood sends out…we prefer the market, not our ‘will’ being implemented. It would be preferrable if society were less coarse (I think libs will agree on that one) but the problem isn’t due to Hollywood making films, it’s the national toleration of abhorrent behavior. Hey, the market has clearly spoken and family-friendly films do much better than the rated-R crap that Hollywood continues to churn out. Don’t get me wrong, my favorite movie of all time is Diehard (not exactly the chosen flick of social conservative evangelicals, of which I’m a member….but I’m an adult in a free society, right?) but if Hollywood wants to continue to send out endless crap (we’ll soon have “Ocean’s 23″ and “American Pie 9: the retirement party” if they don’t wise up) then the market will adapt. Sadly, it appears that instead of Hollywood following the market, the void is being filled by ‘conservative outlets’ like Joel Surnow’s new FNC show or Mel Gibson’s “Passion of the Christ”. It would be nice if Hollywood really followed the dollar, like it claims, but that’s poppycock….George Clooney’s propaganda flicks bomb yet they continue to be churned out. Instead, we’re going to have a split in the entertainment industry with Hollywood ‘values’ being on one side & more family-friendly venues on the other. Remember, Stallone was turned down for years because the Hollywood crowd didn’t think that “Rocky Balboa” the movie would sell….well, it’s family friendly (as far as a boxing movie can be) with a great message and it’s made a ton of cash.
People want entertainment and sadly, today’s Hollywood films are more in line with their agendas (see: Munich, Syriana, , Good night & good luck, Bob Roberts) than meeting the ‘demand’ with the ‘supply’. I don’t care to spend money on George Clooney’s political propaganda any more than I want to hear Rosie O’Donnell’s diatribes……just act, sing or make me laugh. Sadly, they’re under the assumption that people think they’re famous for their intellect instead of their pretty faces or talents.
The void will be filled….it just probaby won’t be by the Hollywood left, so they’ll be out a lot of cash due to their own arrogance and dwindling national adoration (see: Cruise, Tom). The market always rules and it will, again. Depends if Geffen, Lear & co. want to follow the market or their politics. Hey, Michael Jordan is a far-left lib but he realized that Republicans buy shoes, too, & made the business decision NOT to jerk them around (something the hapless Dixie Chicks didn’t consider) and he was rewarded by the market & not just some political entity like the Grammys.

A thoughtful post.
Hollywood is still a part of America, regardless as to the “Hollywood vs the Heartland” diatribes thrown out by conservatives during election cycles. And like it or not, popular culture in America is still growing more liberal by the day. (Why do you think social conservatives are so hopping mad and screaming? They can see they’re losing the so-called culture wars in a landslide).
Way back when you couldn’t have a Will and Grace or a Brokeback Mountain. Now, gays are commonplace, the L word is a hit, and shows like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy are mass consumed. Why? Good stories sell. Period. And once the iron curtain of homophobia began to lift, ever so little, the flood of inventive, fresh, new movies and series was bound to flood out. We like new. We like fresh, edgy, gritty and in-your face.
We also like the underdog story; the outsider, the one who gets picked on, the one who is labeled as a deviant who somehow deals with their status and overcomes their obsticles.
In that vein, Christians aren’t the poor abused minority they pretend to be so often in this country. They are the landed, the monied, the powerful. And often, they are the ones spewing hate and brimstone at others. So… they can’t play the underdog and they are easily identified as the stiff, unbending villains in movies.
Storylines are naturally going to favor the minority not the so called “moral” majority.
Plus, there’s the artist factor. The businessmen are interested in money and the directors and actors make it for them. Those directors and actors, on the cutting edge of society as artists, have more power now than ever before. The studios used to be in control. Not so much anymore. Directors and actors who by their nature learn to live in another person’s skin, and look through their eyes, are going to learn not to judge others, not to condemn, not to cosign others to hell blithely, the same way our priests and ministers so often do. If Tom Cruise won’t play a conservative gay hating, lesbian bashing, jerk, and Martin S. won’t film it, then guess what… the film is less likely to get made. At all. Period.
Last, you forgot the minority factor. A lot of the money in hollywood is in the hands of an American minority; those of jewish descent. They are going to be more sensitive to telling certain stories that take minority feelings into consideration.
All of which is not to say that conservatives dont exist, from B Willis and Arnold S, to Mel Gibson. Or Dennis Miller, for that fact. Look. They are free to tell and sell their stories to the American public. But if we get a racially insensitive, gay bashing, lesbian trashing, anyone who doesn’t believe like me is going to hell movie…. it’s unlikely that America will embrace it. At all.
Trust me, if the money was flowing to the conservatives, the politicos in Washington and elsewhere would have no problem with Hollywood, at all. They’d beat their chest and take the political donations.
Don’t forget; the same critics who cried about Hollywood violence attacked only liberals and left the Republicans, Bruce Willis and Arnold S., off their hit list for a reason.
In short: it’s one-sided political hogwash. The marketplace is speaking and the marketplace of America, despite conservative whining and wailing, is more “give us Will and Grace” because we like it and less, get “Book of Daniel” off the air because we can’t stand it and won’t turn the channel.

Ever is a long time, Mr. N. =) Sure, there have been positive portrayals of social conservatives. I’d say Edward R. Murrow was not a flaming liberal and it wasn’t that long ago there was a movie about him. I actually got a copy of that one to go along with a few other keepers.
I’ve also wondered why Hollywood seems to have become intensely liberal. There are probably a lot of reasons for it. Nothing is ever really simple when it comes to political and social dynamics. And yet, we’re talking about a very small subset of people. Mel Gibson doesn’t have the clout of George Lucas, but he’s radically conservative and he’s a filmmaker whose money does talk.
Is it that Hollywood is liberal or that the people who are most visible are more liberal? There is a lot of money there, but there’s also plenty of money in the conservatives in the fiancial sector, which more than balances out as there are more of them to chip in to political pots of conservative candidates.
Personally, Hollywood has largely lost me. There are not that many films I’m interested in seeing now. Most of them are fluff – hmmm, maybe they were all largely fluff, but it didn’t used to seem that way. Perceptions change over time. I’ll take the grandkids to see films like March of the Penguins – then again, that was not a Hollywood film.

It might simply be that Hollywood moguls worked like hell to be successful by bringing together groups with diverse backgrounds–creative talent, corporate drones, finance types, etc.–and have developed a healthy, i.e. commercially productive, respect for difference that conservatives tend to squash.

What’s the bottom line, to sell a movie in China, for example?
Gay is good;less kids.
Religion is bad; that’s the state’s job.
Gay is not an easy sell for Muslim countries, religion is ok if Christians are portrayed in a negative light. Sex is no.
Violence is a go.
So.

Oh, come on, Terry!
Are you kidding by acting as if your liberality, or that of anyone else in the MSM is an unknown quantity? Let’s not be silly, now.
Why won’t you have this discussion ON AIR? If you have the guts, please do so.
SR

Hollywood is all about acting, singing, and movie production. Their world is a pretend, not reality. I think the apparent liberalism comes from a disconnection from reality. If they want reality, I would like to give them the opportunity to taste it. I think it might change their attitudes at least to some extent.

It seems to me that the nature and best elements of drama as probably taught in film school (I did NOT go, so I’m speculating) is that the best stories involve individual heroes. I can’t think of any movie ever made which portrayed a corporation as good, for example, even though many are (not counting the jobs that they all create for “individuals”). Stories about good coming from corporations are too hard to tell, and probably less interesting (without characters that they can get viewers to believe in), so they’re never told. So the structure of moviemakers’ lives would seem to me to be in believing those heart rendering tales, and to some degree focusing on those types of things as how life is, and how things should be viewed. So they tend to translate that to real life as well.

Hollywood is liberal, because of those who are in Hollywood.
Actors, Living Fake lives on Film. With Fake body parts, Living A Pampered Fake life…… Looking down their noses at the rest of America.
They are papmered, paid handsomly, millions of people say they love them– they HAVE to think ” gee my opionion is worth more thyan others”.
If the rest of the country were Leftist Socialist— Hollywood would be Conservative. Vain people Craving attention.

Again, well said, Ebbarn. I would simply add that the little books, Did God Know, by H. Roy Elseth, The Case for Christ, by Lee Strobel, and, God’s Strategy in Human History, could not fail to be of sincere interest for most people with questions about God and Christianity. All three are well written and highly intelligent, so they immensely reward any reader’s time and effort. Of course, there are other sources of great information on this subject, but these small books will quickly start a person out along a very productive path to profound insight and understanding. For dependable information on the subject of entering into right relationship with God, I can only recommend the first half of Charles G. Finney’s Systematic Theology…requires serious thought but well worth the time and effort considering how vital the information is for our eternal destiny and a happy life in the here and now. Good reading, all, you’re worth it.

To Duncan and ColinCody:
Thanks for the frank insight. I thought both of you, while different in style, presented your position well.
I am somewhat familiar with Charles G. Finney and I knew he wrote a systematic theology. What is most impressive with the Honorable Finney is that he was a working man’s preacher.
It was said he frequented factories in the communities he held his crusades and his presence was such that workers who didn’t have a clue as to who he was and what he did stopped their work just on the fact that he was there. He did not need a Hollywood agent.
If I remember correctly business owners would often offer paid time off from work with the option to attend services held by Finney on the business premises with the businessman’s blessing.

MarkSM
A sign of intelligence is not the complexity of the communication, but rather the simplicity of the communication.

Of the major moguls Terry Moran mentions: Geffen, Katzenberg, Spielberg, Reiner, Lear, Saban-I don’t recall much sex in the movies they’ve made.

Before you attribute factual errors to only conservatives–you may wish to look at Mr. Moran’s last several posts:
# I Stand Corrected
# Is Giuliani “White” Enough?
Absolutely none of those errors (i.e., the whole premise of his blog posting in the first place) was slanted towards falsely coloring “conservative” positions in a good light.
As had been said many times, everyone is allowed their own opinions–just not their own facts.
-Bill

Link did not come through:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17313110/site/newsweek/
-Bill

The Hollywood liberals are destroying our values. Period. By promoting sex, evolution, the theory of the big bang, big government subsidies and by decrying prayer and school they are killing us as a culture.

Liberals believe in expressing one’s self. There’s no such thing as safe speech. If you don’t like what some one says then you speak out. More speech, not less.
So it’s only natural that actors would gravitate toward liberalism since there craft requires they become the character they playing.
If conservative were in control everything would have a happy ending or a message. Sometimes I want to see a monster rip some ones head of just for the sake of a good horror flick. No meaning just expression.

Rima
I oppose both the unbridled violence and the sexual depravity. What bothers me is using the window dressing term “steamy sex” instead of what it truly is which is SEXUAL DEPRAVITY. Of course not many people seek to be personally attached to depravity. I assume you don’t or you would have said I love sexual depravity. Is that what you are doing? Are you excusing uncontrolled lust while trying to divert attention from it by supposedly vehemently opposing violence? A case can be made that there is a connection between sexual depravity and violence. I can give an example if you wish.

Gee, how ’bout Passions of the Christ, The Chronicles of Narnia, Shrek duo, Finding Nemo, Pirates of the Caribbean? I would say box office and DVD sales of these movies made them among the most profitable in Hollywood history both in US and worldwide. It’s not just sex that Hollywood prefers to push it’s the drug and gang culture. And frankly the potential sales for these films is far less than those with a little skin.
And I haven’t read your posts before, but good one about you maybe being a conservative. Funny stuff, Terry!

I am a Christian writing theologian and also a professional actor. Strange combination, to be sure, and stranger still, I also sing, paint, sculpts, dance, etc. So, I know well the experience of being vibrantly creative in many areas, and, believe me, there is nothing about being creative that necessarily predisposes one to being politically liberal or morally corrupt. In fact, it is liberalism and corruption in all their forms rather than the arts that require a strong element of goofy dislocation from common sense reality. Liberals see life from the perspective of a high degree of unreality, fantasy or just plain, old-fashioned ignorance and stupidity.
Real artists of all kinds are intensely connected to reality (with the exceptions of Vincent Van Gogh and Pablo Picasso if you consider them real artists–I don’t) as a necessary requirement for communicating with a sane audience. Of course, much of what is claimed to be art these days is really only the ludicrous excrement of shallow, unbalanced minds valued and enjoyed by other shallow, unbalanced minds. That’s why people like me don’t listen to popular secular music, don’t watch modern movies–with rare exceptions, read few current books or watch much TV. We have no place in this mad-hatter world, although we do at times interact with it seeking to call it back somehow to sanity at particularly auspicious moments when we might be heard above the terrible screams of the “lambs being slaughtered.”

What exactly IS the definition of a Liberal? Or a Conservative for that matter.
What is the deep dark evil so many associate with the word “Liberal”?
Mr. Moran says that the left has the notion that national loyalty can be superseded by a broader allegiance to the abstract goals of, among other things, human rights and global environmental stewardship.
Is Mr. Moran saying that the right is not concerned with human rights or global environmental stewardship? This is the concern of Liberals only? Surely not. I cannot believe that all Conservatives have no concern whatsoever for human rights or environmental stewardship.
Is Mr. Moran asserting that such a disregard for humanity and the planet would be something to be proud of?
Is blind, unquestioning allegiance to a nation always to be desired? My country right or wrong? The obvious denial to such an assertion is, of course, Hitler’s Germany.
What exactly is OUR national identity? Our freedoms? Or is our national identity made up of Wall Street, the Superbowl, the World Series, NASCAR, American Idol, Anna Nicole and Brittany? Actually, I think I should have listed Wall Street last as it certainly does appear that most of the country identifies much more with the others listed.
What exactly is this national identity to which we should all pledge our undying loyalty?
Loyalty to a government that seeks to dilute or remove the very freedoms that define us as a nation? And with hardly a squawk of protest from the citizenry.
The unquestioning support of a trillion-dollar war that, in addition to killing our troops and the civilians (including children) of the occupied country and increasing membership in terrorist organizations, will financially haunt future generations?
National loyalty for a nation that fails to plan for and provide adequate care for the scores of maimed troops returning home?
Loyalty for a nation where our government looked away as the drowned, water-logged bodies of our fellow citizens floated down the streets of our cities? The government still looks away and we let them.
National loyalty for a nation where judges claim they just cannot live on $165,000+ per year and then our ELECTED OFFICICALS, who are supposed to represent ALL citizens, do everything in their power to stonewall a living wage for the poorest of our working citizens?
Loyalty to a nation that advocates torture? And we allow them to torture in our name, again, with hardly a peep of protest.
Loyalty to a nation where we are no longer a people who can be “secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures…”Amendment IV of the United States Constitution?
Loyalty to a nation that has deemed it legal to incarcerate people forever without charges, while denying them legal counsel, communication with their families, and no trial every needed? Again, a deafening silence from the public. Oh, sure that’s ok. It’s just the terrorists, that could NEVER happen to regular people like us.
To paraphrase the old poem, if we don’t stand up now for others, when they come for us there won’t be anyone left to stand up for us.
There must be Conservatives somewhere in this country who think about all these things I’ve listed. Just as there must be Liberals in this country who couldn’t care less.
We are never going to make it as a civilization unless we can overcome this us versus them mentality. Whether it is Liberals vs Conservatives, races vs each other, men vs women, religions vs religions, heterosexual vs homosexual or the United States vs the rest of the world, we’re going to have to find a way to live together.

Posted by: Phyl | Feb 27, 2007 10:17:11 AM
How can the world NOT see us as a corrupt society?
A list of companies embroiled in various financial scandals:
http://www.forbes.com/2002/07/25/accountingtracker.html
Congressional scandals with under-age pages.
Congressional bribery scandals.
The free and unfettered purchase of our government representatives by lobbyists.
The absolute lack of truthfulness and integrity displayed by all levels of our government right in to the White House.
Corrupt society? If the shoe fits, and it does, I’m afraid we must wear it.

Loyalty to ones’ nation doesn’t mean ‘blind’ loyalty. It means being loyal to the countrys’ original ideals as put forth by our founding fathers.
Unfortunately, it is people who make up a nation. Is it fair to say that the permissiveness of the ’60s and ’70s and all that ‘flower power’ has spawned what our nation has become????
Drugs, sex and Rock and Roll hardly make for a people with high ideals to carry on the traditions of our forefathers.
And to blame the government for not doing enough..WELl..there you go…the ‘liberals’ all want ‘big daddy’ government to take care of them in everything..then they complain that it has too much power. Can’t have it both ways..
Also..is it fair to say that alot of the present practices of the government is a direct result of the fact that we at WAR????? And NOT just because it’s a big, bad, daddy of a government? Come on people..GET REAL!!!!

Many people like the flakes in Hollywood are mislead into political liberalism through a commitment to some false religion or goofy religious or semi-religious ideas. I’ve seen it many times among my relatives and friends in and out of Hollywood. This sickness of the mind and soul can be cured in part or in whole by administering a serious dose of Charles Finney’s interpretation of the Scriptures concerning saving right relationship with God. And that is an excellent reason why an accurate view of Finney’s theology, particularly his soteriology, is imperative for us all. It can powerfully protect us from loon delusions of a political and religious nature by anchoring us down so very deeply into fundamental spiritual reality that we quite simply cannot be shaken and led astray.
Charles G. Finney was one of the very greatest men in all of history: an evangelist whose effectiveness vastly exceeded that of any other man of like calling who ever lived (poor, sad old Billy Graham doesn’t even begin to compare–read Finney’s Memoirs); a systematic theologian far beyond any who ever published on soteriology–try reading Finney’s Systematic Theology–although admittedly he was sometimes inconsistent; a highly successful college professor beloved and admired by all his students; a faithful pastor who taught his congregation the deep things of God; a powerfully effective abolitionist; a real man of deep, abiding and consistent devotion to Christ Jesus (no scandals were ever legitimately associated with his name or ministry though he had many jealous enemies from among the ranks of churchianity); and he was a profoundly loving husband and father.
Sadly, there are simple-minded souls today who assume the theology of the monstrous mass murderer and serial murderer, John Calvin, to be true beyond possibility of contradiction probably because that’s all they’ve ever heard. But a careful study of Calvin’s theology reveals that by implication he defined God’s character to be consistent with his own enormously evil character and thus by extention consistent with Satan’s character. So, like today’s Islamic terrorists, while followers of Calvin’s theology call the object of their worship “god,” the truth is that by definition they worship a “being” with the character of Satan who pretends to be the God of the Bible. I believe that “being” to be no less than Satan himself.
Now today’s Calvinists are not content with worshipping Satan by themselves; no, they feel the psychotic need to convert others to their diabolical views and, furthermore, slander the views of those who contradict Calvin’s religious Cool Aid. Thus, the prevailing ludicrous twaddle against Finney used by these delusional souls is that his views are consistent with those of Pelagius. Of course, nothing could be farther from the truth, as Satan well knows, but, after all, he is “the deceiver” for whom lying is standard operating procedure.
Finney claimed rightly to be a “modified Calvinist,” because he, unhappily, was never able to rid himself of all the filthy Calvinism with which he had been inundated for years. He was miraculously able to escape from the tar barrel, but couldn’t scrape off every bit of the tar.
As I understand what little is known of Pelagius, he taught a rigorous form of soteriological legalism reminiscent of Wesley’s early Methodism.
But according to Finney’s systematic theology, which I am currently rewriting into modern language and style, Finney taught the genuinely biblical view of salvation which is not in the slightest legalistic and thus not like that of Pelagius.
Finney believed we enter into genuine saving right relationship with God through Christ by following Christ’s own entirely accurate instructions for so doing. I believe they are most clearly found in Luke 9:23–”If anyone would be my disciple (become a true, born again Christian), let him deny himself (put away selfish ultimate life motive, i.e., living supremely for one’s own selfish benefit at the cost of the greater good of God and others), take up his cross (choose Christ’s life purpose of unselfish, holy love [agape] as supremely demonstrated in his sacrificial, atoning death on the cross) daily (not a once-for-all-time, pagan, magical thing but rather a spiritual commitment producing a spiritual change which must necessarily be renewed daily because it is entirely SPIRITUAL as opposed to being to any degree PHYSICAL, molecular) and follow me” (diligently seek to live out the implications of one’s salvation commitment in every aspect of life but not from the legalistic motive of works righteousness as the often presumed means of maintaining one’s state of right relationship with God. We live it out as the loving spiritual expression of the salvation commitment which assumes by its very nature that we will always want to express it wholeheartedly in our lives. Multifaceted expression consistent with the moral/spiritual fundamentals of the covenant is organic to the nature of any such agreement and so cannot be otherwise. Without that upon which the salvation relationship is based, i.e., continuous commitment to the covenantal terms of salvation, our saving relationship with God could not possibly continue to exist).
This soteriology is grounded in profound, biblically derived spiritual principles rather than superficial works righteousness twaddle; therefore, Finney’s views are plainly not what Pelagius taught. These spiritual principles produce real, clearly observable and sometimes radical change in people’s lives just as lovingly intended by our Heavenly Father. They are the powerful dynamics for victory over sin that no false gospel of legalism has or even comes close to having.
If you listen carefully, you can hear the lambs in Hollywood screaming in agony as they are being torn apart, slaughtered by the ravening wolves in sheep’s clothing who everywhere abound in corrupt, apostate organized religion. God weeps.
Don’t let it happen to you; Finney’s soteriology can protect you and your family from the wolves’ multitude of false religions and the profoundly destructive attractions of political Liberalism.

Hollywood will change when it has no choice but to change.
Judaism will do nothing.
Fundamental Islam would be very shift. Change or shut down or off with the heads.
Fundamental Christianity as is is impotent embracing strange fatalistic doctrine regarding such books as Genesis, Daniel, and Revelation. Legitimate sciences regarding beginnings and Reformation Theology have been deserted.
Christianity would have to change from within to effect change of the heart which would at the very least bankrupt Hollywood in its present form.
If Hollywood wanted to eat they would have produce a better programming, otherwise not enough people would watch. If there were not people enough to watch, there would be not enough ticket and movie sales or rentals, and the advertising dollars on television would not support the filth.
The solution abides with Christians who are not cowards, are not on their dead hind ends waiting to be caught up and rescued, and are willing get to work dealing with morality and influence issues as it relates to Hollywood.
The most effective action is presenting the Gospel of our Lord God Jesus Christ to the local community, state, nation, and the world. Demand for Hollywood’s filth would dry up, and thus Hollywood would have to change.

Colin on those points we are in total agreement! (and I am not liberal just a moderate on the conservative side).
I agree 100% with you on what the actual problem is, Which as I see it is a problem of self respct for oneself in society. We may differ on how to achieve that goal but I do think we both have identified the problem.
where we may differ is in specifics. I am a christian, what you propose would work for someone like me. But people of other faiths are not going to give the scriptures even half a chance. a more secular way of conveying the base morality in christianity (and other religions) must be formed instead. And it can not be legislated into law it must be taught and ingrained in the individual from their youth.
An example: Liberals have long wanted more welfare and government assistance to solve the issue of poverty. Conservatives have instead supported training and job creation instead. Welfare reform!
As they say give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime.
In that example the conservative approach is better because it not only feeds the person who needs the help but it helps them to be more self sufficient and therefore instill a better sense of pride. Pride in yourself will lead you to instill that pride in your children to do what is right as you would not want them to ruin the pride you have found. It is a domino effect.
And as I said before I am not denying religion would instill some of this pride as well. But I do not want (and I’ll bet you wouldn’t either if the right situation came about) the government to be legislating religious doctrine. (What if at some point an Islamic Majority came into power?)
The reason the liberals have any support at all is mostly because these people fear that conservative christians are going to turn the entire country into a christian monastery.
I know this is not true but because of the conservative attacks against the media the media have been very skilled in putting out this message.
I personally feel conservatives in regards to morality in the media have actually abandoned conservative principles.
conservatives such as Goldwater wanted LESS government interference in people’s lives. Yet here we are with the FCC trying to get more involved in those lives by trying to raise their kids for them!
And take that hotbutton issue into the previous subject of instilling pride back into the community.
the whole reason we have become more godless and immoral here is because no one but the liberal media is raising our kids.
Parents are disconnecting from their children which leads them to be disconnected from the values this country has held true for two centuries.
I would rather we legislated parents to spend time and raise their own kids as opposed to making sure ABC doesn’t corrupt them while their parents are neglecting thier duty to raise them.
It is no different than taking them off welfare and finding a job they can do. when their child is reared properly it will give them some sense of pride for a job well done.
As you stated the problem is that liberals think they know better and are an elite that should tell the masses what to do. But that is true in some respect for the extreme fringe on the other side as well.
to say we read the scriptures and we know the way and you must follow it is almost as arrogant as the liberals saying give me 25% of your salary because you are not capable of spending it on yourself wisely.
which is why I say the theocratic approach is not the way…We must forment a secular morality that can draw on theocratic principles and promote it.
But too many conservatives these days are trying to legislate them instead.
Just look how Prohibition turned out for a test case of what happens when you try and legislate morality.
In a way this issue of content in hollywood is very similar to that. Conservatives try to legislate morality and hollywood says the people want immoral content and we will provide it just as the mobsters provided alcohol to the masses when that vice was denied to them.
Prohibition didn’t stop the drinking of alcohol it just made many people into criminals and criminals into moguls!
Conservatives need to get back to the principles Goldwater supported. Which is less government, More efficient government and less taxes so that people can have the money they need to invest and raise their level in society. It is fine to use your religious sensabilities when deciding on what bills to pass and to oppose. But the bill itself can not be formed on religious beliefs.
Gay Marriage and trying to limit the content in media to Christian standards is not something the government should be involved in. If we want people to have pride in themselves and make the right choices then we have to show them they are respected enough to do these things without the need for the government to tell them what to do. And if we did that the Hollywood moguls would have less reason to support liberals to gain and buy their influence in washington.
you might even find more conservative moguls in hollywood if we did that.
Because by telling the people “YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE, YOU ARE SMART ENOUGH TO CHOOSE” they might start making the right choices or feel better enough about themselves to make the right choices, and that is when the market for filth in hollywood will change. the market will change and affect who makes the most money.
If you want to change the market you need to change the consumer not limit the company that is feeding the need.

A brief recap.
When the consumer changes to the better, then Hollywood has no choice but to follow the change or go bust.
Socio-economic changes are important, but the root abides in the old standard of getting the ghetto out of the man and he will leave the ghetto. The ghetto will disappear. It is all about the heart and soul of the individual. History has proven that and it has always been about the presentation of the Gospel of our Lord God Jesus Christ.
A brief study of the ministry of Charles Haddon Spurgeon might be useful.

Mike……..
What did I say that made you think I would ever want the US to be a theocracy? A theocracy worked for the Hebrew people, but it could not work here because of our religious diversity. Were we all genuine Christians in this country (which will never be the case), then and then only could a workable theocracy become a wonderful reality. As it is, our government today should be informed by Christian ethics but not controlled by organized religion, which I believe to be apostate. Our Constitution guarantees that such foolishness can never happen.
It is common to hear people say that we can’t legislate morality, but that assumes that all morality is confined to that uniquely promoted by organized religion. However, anything whatsoever having to do with benefit and harm concerns morality. All legislation contains an element of morality at it’s heart. When you make murder, rape, theft, mugging, etc., violations of the law, you have clearly legislated morality, the morality we all know intuitively to be true. It is common to hear people say that we can’t legislate morality, but that assumes that all morality is confined to that uniquely promoted by organized religion. However, anything whatsoever having to do with benefit and harm concerns morality. Of necessity, the entire legal system is built on moral right and wrong. Why legislate against something if it is not harmful and thus morally wrong? Why legislate for something unless it is beneficial and thus morally good?
Had the government the manliness to put real teeth behind the laws against drinking alcohol years ago and strictly enforced those laws, millions of people would be alive who are dead or seriously injured now because of alcohol related crime, addiction and accidents. Laws against alcohol didn’t fail. The politicians and law enforcement failed our nation, and our entire population keeps right on paying an outrageous price for their gutless incompetence.

Felix,
People are known by their fruits.

Colin, I did not think you wanted a theocratic state. Sorry if it came across like that.
But you must admit some others in this country do!
It is these people who scare the masses and drive them to the political left where they feel safe in regards to their freedom to find spirituality and morality as they define it for themselves.
In order to acheive the goal we must not refer to scriptuures or Gospel as it scares the hell out of anyone who is not christian. there are even some christians who get scared because they don’t exactly interpret the bible in the same way some evangelical conservatives do.
While it is not right to generalize for any group of individuals, Sadly it is what happens in this society. So you saying that scripture holds the answer to the problem, while it may well be correct, is scary to some because they are not exactly sure which interpretation will be used. And what of the people who do not follow a religion at all or those who claim to follow a religion but ignore the parts of it they do not agree with?
How do you win them over?
I am not disagreeing with the tenents of the scripture based on it’s version of Morality. But we must find a way to sell it to the masses without making it appear as a conversion or Missionary project.
And the only way to do that is to avoid all mention of religion, scripture and gospel and sell it as a universal morality.

Mike………….
With the possible exception of the Roman Catholics, I have never heard of an organization claiming to be Christian that would ever seek to control anyone’s thinking or religious activities other than their own people. They are much too feeble to do that sort of thing even had they the desire to do so. They can’t even rid us of abominable abortion. Non-Christian groups like the Islamics, however, are another thing entirely.
I sometimes try to help people in spiritual matters without using theological or biblical terms, but my content is always thoroughly biblical because God cannot bless anything less to the benefit of my hearers. I never water down the truth in order to avoid offending anyone because that would be unloving in the extreme.
Although biblical Christianity has moral implications for how we live our lives, Christianity itself is not simply a moral code or a particular lifestyle. It is vastly more than that and much more profound in every way. It involves an all-encompassing spiritual change starting with repentance from sin, i.e., turning away from the firmly rooted principle of self-aggrandizement in our lives. It also involves a very deep and sincere commitment to supremely value unselfish, holy love as Jesus taught and exemplified it. We choose it continuously as our highest principle of life. And it permeates all aspects of our lives. It leads to very real fellowship with and worship of God and his son, Jesus Christ. And the end result is eternal life in heaven with all the ones, divine and human, whom we love and who dwell there.
Charles Finney used biblical concepts and language to convert hundreds of thousands of highly diverse people to Christ in a lasting way. If evangelists today had what Finney had, they could do the same thing he did, much to the benefit of our nation. His ministry formed the core of The Second Great Awakening. You can read about it in Finney’s Memoirs. Reading that book is like being transported back to a marvelous time in history when certain places on earth where Finney’s revivals broke out became amazingly like heaven. Some liberals and most conservatives would love to see those days again but have no idea how to get back to them, nor do the preachers, most of whom idiotically consider Finney’s theology of salvation (which the Holy Spirit blessed immensely and thus clearly agrees with) to be heretical.
When we have the courage to take our hands from over our ears, we can clearly hear the terrified screams of the lambs as they are led into Satan’s pit of smoke and fire by the spiritually blind leaders of the spiritually blind. God weeps.

Why are oil companies so conservative? You may not be a right winger, but the tone of your question clearly demonstrates that you’re dealing from a right wing deck, and it’s not a full deck.

Duh. If “conservative” were de rigueur for Hollywood, it would be about as interesting as watching mud crack in the sun.
Ask a better question next time.

To Godseyesore:
You have a very appropriate handle. At least you are honest on that point.
You said: “Duh. If “conservative” were de rigueur for Hollywood, it would be about as interesting as watching mud crack in the sun.”
Interesting illustration to cover up the fact that what you appear to consider “interesting” seems to be nothing but a euphemism for depraved lust.

In the 1920-1950′s Hollywood was controlled by the mogul’s who had the voice and the political power. Actors were not in the political area like they are now. They were a product controlled by the studio. They were not valued for their personal or political views – they were valued by the public for their talent or their persona’s that the studio publicist’s fiercely protected. The mogul’s or studio’s controlled their careers and chose their movies. The mogul’s went out and found the best authors, the best composers, the best actors and then built vehicles around that talent. They had a passion for film making and excellence. It showed. There always were a few exceptions to the rule but for the most part that is how it was.
Politic’s were done behind the scenes then – it always there, just in a different way than it is now. Hidden.
In the 1960′s the change started. No need in recapping the past forty years to where we are today.
Actors are now in control of their publicity and they have a voice in their careers, politics, and they have gone from being a product that was controlled by a studio to controlling their own product. Someone with very little talent given the right vehicle can become a superstar and then in 5 years be an unknown again. Actors control their own publicity – Tom Cruise. Moguls would have shut him down immediately. George Clooney, Barbra Streisand – people that you don’t just think of for their talent or their looks, but you actually think of them for their political stands and they take their political persona to the same level that they take their talent.
Ultimately for me, I am just bored, bired, bored with them all. Why do they think that just because they are a movie star I want to hear their personal views? I don’t.
The endless parade of award shows where they focus endlessly on themselves and talk politics from the podium – it is pushing away the film fans. Viewership is down – they are having to bring in comics and make the awards shows entertainment to get fans to even watch them give themselves more awards. The movies that win the awards – who watches them either? They are all given based on politics and not based on film making. There are a few new hollywood moguls who even spark my interest. I wanted to be more interested in what Clooney was doing but the constant ‘blathering on and on’ that he does has turned me off from even being interested in what he has to say.
If they have so much power and influence how come they did not get Gore or Kerry into the WhiteHouse by a landslide? With their supposed power they should have been able to promote and get someone in and they didn’t.
Basically this nation swings from 8 years of democratic leadership until everyone is sick of that to 8 years of conservative leadership until everyone is sick of that – back and forth, back and forth.
Hollywood does not control who gets into the White House. Hollywood controls who get’s the Democratic nomination. That is what Clinton and Obama are fighting for. And why? Should Hollywood have that much influence in picking who is the next candidate to run for President by the Democratic party? They are not exactly experts at what the public thinks or wants. If they were experts at what America wants America would be flocking to see their films.
And because they have lost that expertise – they don’t know what the public wants then how can they pick a candidate that can win for their party? They can’t.
The film industry that was once tightly controlled industry in the hands of a few people is now open to everyone because of this very reason. Independents with no studio or Hollywood backing can now make films that gross more than Hollywood films. Mel Gibson proved that point.
In the next 20 years people can choose from things other than American Pie, American Beauty and another Clint Eastwood nominated film. This year I saw three great movies in a 2 month period that all were made outside Hollywood by independents. I was shocked. My friends were shocked. It has given us hope and it all because out independents. A Painted Veil, Miss Potter and Amazing Grace were the three films. I will buy them all on DVD when they come out so that my pocketbook gives a clear message about what I would like to see more of.
My prediction, in the future Hollywood will just be a place to live and host award shows and talk politics.
The real film making and political decisions will be made elsewhere.

I do not think that the “stars” as a whole have a lot of influence. What the industry as a whole has is a lot of money to the point that the funding has become necessary for the Democratic party to succeed.
That is only my personal understanding, but I don’t think I am too far off base.

Terry,
Your post unfairly implies that Hollywood is liberal because it needs to use sex to sell and “liberals” are in support of that. While liberals may be stronger supporters of freedom of expression and personal liberties than conservatives are, I believe that many liberal feminists would take issue with using half naked women to sell radial tires. As a “liberal,” I am not ready to tell anyone what they can or cannot do to sell a product, but my hope is that consumers will turn away from businesses that use irrelevant explicit images, particularly of women, to sell their products. My hope is that consumers will show their preference for useful product information and/or witty advertising over “sex” when choosing between products. I think it is inaccurate and irresponsible to imply, directly or indirectly, that Hollywood is liberal because liberals are somehow more ready than conservatives to exploit sex for higher profits. I doubt that an investigation of the facts would prove that to be the case.

Jody,
I fully agree with you that sex should not be used to sell movies or radial tires or anything else. I consider it a serious moral issue that they are encouraging lust in millions of both men and women. (Do you ever wonder why the incidence of rape and illigitimacy is so high in our country?) But most people thoroughly enjoy looking at a beautiful, scantily clad body of the opposite sex and so our view is unlikely to ever prevail short of a great spiritual awakening that shakes this nation to it’s core.
I’m afraid Hillywood liberals do use sex to attract viewers, though, more than do conservatives. That is because liberals as a whole tend to be skeptical of morality in general because they are fundamentally skeptical of religion. They believe they have no God to whom they will give an accounting of their lives after death. That, therefore, largely frees them of the moral constraints (aside from those intuitively derived) that guide most conservatives. For many people, moral principles are religiously derived, so, since conservatives tend to be more religious than liberals, they tend to have a greater sense of moral obligation. This means that they are much more hesitant to use sex to attract customers to their products.
As for freedom of expression and personal liberty being better supported by liberalism, may I just say that as a multi-talented artist myself, I do not find being a conservative to be a handicap to responsible exercise of my capabilities. In fact, there is a very profound sense in which I am much more free than are the libertine artists. They have no foundation in ultimate reality from which to create and no help from their Creator in expressing the depths of their souls. I would’t trade places with any of them, no matter how wealthy, because I can fully respect the integrity of my own work and I also know their ultimate end.

Colin – Lets first clear the record here…If the shoe I handed out doesn’t fit please don’t wear it! I don’t know you and I can’t rightfully say you are one of the militant evangelicals I was talking about. But there are many evangelicals who would love nothing more than to legislate the 10 commandments and add the bible into the Law books…While I can agree that many aspects of the Bible (and religion as a whole) could do much to solve the social ills we have in this country, they are not something that the government or politics can enforce or legislate fairly.
EBBarn – I consider myself a conservative…Probably more in the vain of Goldwater than the current wave that seems to have taken over the Republican party…
The only real difference between Liberals and Conservatives as I see it right now is in how each wants to control the population.
Liberals say you can make any lifestyle choice you want. Like saying to a kid go out have all the fun you want, don’t worry about being responsible because we are going to do everything for you by taking half your salary and providing the services we have decided you need….
Conservatives say you must be a responsible human, You must live by a high standard (as we define it)
you must limit your passions so that the money we do not take from you can be used for your own good and not wasted.
So basically these days one tries to control the wallet the other tries to control your morality!
Both sides assume they know better how we should go about our lives.
As far as I am concerned the government is supposed to answer to the people not the other way around. Both sides in this regard have got it wrong!
I agree with the conservative principle that I know better how my money can serve my needs than some liberal does…I don’t want the government in my Wallet…I don’t want them in my bedroom either!
Conservative are hurting themselves by citing religion or holding up some religious principles that have no business being discussed or regulated by our government.
What I can see on TV or Hear on Radio is my business. I have all the regulatory controls I need on my TV, DVD player, Radio and local movie theater. I simply change the channel or go to a different movie house. I do not need congress to limit what can be seen by me or my choices. Unless the act actually forces an injustice on someone’s rights the government has no right to limit it. And in this case it is these proposed limitations that is causing hollywood to run under the wings of the liberals!
the conservative that enticed me to be one all led based on the principle of LESS government interference in my personal life and finances. This has been abandoned recently. New York had a republican Mayopr and Gov, and the first thing they enacted was a $3 tax on cigarettes! All because they don’t want me to smoke…
they are the major party pushing against Gay Marriage…
Who cares if they want to get married? If two people want to live together and share the burden of trying to make each other’s life better then let them! This is issue two in why Hollywood has run under the liberal umbrella! I have worked in TV for over 25 years now and I know that nearly 25% of the media workers are gay…I didn’t find any to be immoral in any sense and in no greater proportions than those of us who are straight!
Conservatives took their mandate too far on the family values rise.
Ronald Regan was so successful because he PREACHED what was proper as opposed to attempting to legislating it.
Goldwater didn’t seem to have much problem with Gays in the Military.
If someone wants to serve our country then let them!
We (conservatives) need to get back to our core principles….
LESS government, Respect for the intelligence of our people, and compassion to all not just one sect of the populace. That is what has worked for us.
The recent push to legislate and regulate christian morality into law is what has driven the Media and hollywood into the liberal camp.
Because you don’t care about ideology when your under fire!
you simply go to the nearest shelter hoping to survive!
We keep lobbing bombs at them and they will keep running to the only bunker they feel safe in…
The Liberal one!

Terry………….
I have been an actor, artist, singer, etc. for many years, and I am not aware of being any less open minded and empathetic than are the Hollywood liberals. In fact, as a conservative, I am far more open to that which is truly artistic–the good, the true and the beautiful–than are the degenerate liberals who dominate Hollywood.
Hollywood is liberal because that position is so far out of contact with reality that they can more easily pretend to be open-minded, empathetic humanitarians and “great” artists while simultaneously subverting for money the moral principles upon which this nation was built and without which it cannot survive as free. Conservatives don’t work much in Hollywood these days, not because we are less creative, but because we refuse to destroy our personal integrity by taking part in their sell-out of our entire nation for fame and fortune.
And the gullible public buys the liberal con every confounded time. Do you know why? Because they have become addicted to entertainment and, therefore, blinded to it’s often evil nature and purposes.

Mike:
You said:
“But there are many evangelicals who would love nothing more than to legislate the 10 commandments and add the bible into the Law books…While I can agree that many aspects of the Bible (and religion as a whole) could do much to solve the social ills we have in this country, they are not something that the government or politics can enforce or legislate fairly.”
The Bible is in the laws books and there are not enough erasers to remove it. Early in the formation of the United States up to the early 20th century the Bible was often quoted as authoritative in settlement and argument of court cases both civil and criminal. As far as the 10 Commandments are concerned I was educated in an elementary school that had the 10 Commandments posted in each class room. I am happy to say the worst problems we had would be consider small stuff today. I and my classmates were not scarred by their posting. If it really upsets the populace just post the last five commandments. It would go a long way to solving many of the social problems today.
Terry:
You said:
“Hollywood is liberal for a number of reasons. Creativity requires an open mind. Good acting requires empathy. It is like having a baby and sitting it down on the floor. Does the baby cry to be picked up or does the baby explore the world?”
A depraved liberal mind is incapable of creativity.

I think you’re right, John. In Hollywood’s shallow-minded, self-absorbed ignorance, they consider evil to be a mere laughing matter. They do not take it seriously enough to understand that there are times when it must be opposed by force of arms amid the shedding of blood. When a government or a movement threatens a people’s national survival, it is time to man the battlements in self defense. Any other course of action could reasonably be construed as treason most foul.

Mike…………
The basic principles of morality were not invented by any religion. They are inherent in and permeate all fundamental reality. They are true only because they are inherent in the very foundations of all reality, not just that of religious groups. They are intuitively perceived as well as biblically revealed. So, they are available to the conscious minds of all people, pagan or otherwise.
Every pagan, every Islamic, every Buddhist, every Hindu, every Mormon, every Jehovah’s Witness, every Spiritist, etc., etc., is intuitively aware of the immense wickedness of sodomy and gay marriage. These actions are not evil because religious leaders and God himself declares them evil. God and religious leaders say they are evil because they are inherently evil and cannot in the nature of reality be otherwise. Therefore, everyone, not just biblical Christians, opposes sodomy and gay marriage because of their own intuitive awareness of their true, incontrovertible immoral nature. This is the case regardless of how the gays may try to disguise the wickedness of their ways to fool the ignorant and gullible. I’m sure the gays themselves are painfully aware of the perniciousness of their lifestyle, but they love their particular form of evil far too much to abandon it only because it is a moral snake pit.
The basic principles of intuitively perceived morality are the same for all Christian and many pagan religions, atheists, agnostics, nature worshippers, etc., so the FCC is not legislating religion when it tries to keep the troglodytes of TV from polluting the minds of our children with their filth.
The first amendment guarantees free speech only to those who do not seek to harm others by their free speech. The FCC’s purpose is not to promote any religion, but to prevent harm to our people, particularly our children by those who would destroy them–all for another bloody nickel in their pockets.
Gays are trying to legislate their wicked immorality by making it a crime to criticize them in public for their evil lifestyle or discriminate against them in hiring because of their perversity. This would include churches and childcare facilities that could both be severely harmed by having to employ gays.
When churches are forbidden by law from even mentioning the wickedness and perversity of homosexuality in their services, as is already the case in Canada, then it will be time to literally man the battlements against a profoundly harmful government on it’s way to self-destruction.
Evangelicals and conservatives do not seek to restrict legitimate rights of citizens; we only seek to curb the criminal activities of a few who do not respect the rights of others to live in peace and security. The moral climate of our nation has consequences for all of us just as our thinking, our ideas have similar consequences.
The public exhibition of sexual activity should be prohibited because it greatly degrades what should be seen as a beautiful expression of marital love and affection. Making sex into mere animal lust is considered vile by all people who wear clothes and by most who don’t.
Mike, do you really look forward to having your wife and daughter or sister raped and killed by a sex-crazed teenager? Sexually oriented TV, movies, music and reading material have profoundly harmful effects on men of all ages, but especially on the young. Therefore, your cat just won’t flush. It is far from good enough to ignore the problem by merely turning to another channel. We have to deal with lust as it effects the general population because that is where the greatest danger to everyone’s safety and security lies. The values or lack thereof promoted on TV greatly affect the lives of all Americans, not just those who watch the filth.
Mike, people are not pushed into becoming liberals by anything other than their own stupidity, ignorance and wicked motivation. In a nation that theoretically seeks the highest benefit for the greatest number of people, no one has the “right” to do those things that directly or indirectly contradict that basic governing principle. Those of us who are true freedom lovers recognize this as a truism beyond sane contradiction.
Guliani favors the slaughter of millions more of our most innocent citizens, our unborn babies. It is now estimated that the liberals have supported the murder of over 30,000,000 of these little tykes to date. How much blood and agonized screaming within the womb will satisfy these creeps from the smoking pit of Satan’s hell? Even pagan civilizations enslaved in darkness recognize the intrinsic wickedness of abortion. That is why Republicans will not seriously consider running Guliani.
What happens then? I hope they will scoop up enough sanity and testosterone to nominate Ron Paul or Thomas Sowell as their candidate, both men with genuine integrity who do not pander to the liberal elite for crumbs from their bloody table.
By compromising our religion and our moral principles, we will then be setting up our children to wear burkas. Real Christianity is more than strong enough to withstand the challenge of Islam, but a version without intelligent manliness would doom us without fail.
The Ten Commandments are a codification of intuitive morality recognized by all people as binding upon them even though some think they are the exceptions. It is good to have a ready reminder of what we all know to be moral reality. Biblical Christians meet all of those requirements as a natural result of living by God’s life principle of unselfish, holy love (agape).
There is absolutely no point whatsoever in running a liberal Republican against a liberal Democrat. Regardless of who wins, we still have a worthless liberal in office. If it comes to that, I would much rather go down in defeat, all flags flying, than to compromise my principles to win a meaningless election. I think that makes excellent sense.
Mike, I’m afraid that you have been led astray by many people falsely claiming to know what they are talking about. But as a Christian theologian, I am quite sure that I understand the “Judge not…” Scripture well enough to explain it accurately to you. This verse quite simply and obviously means that we are to judge others by the standard by which we are willing to be judged. If you are a hypocrite and unwilling to have others hold you to the same standard you hold for them, then you should keep your mouth shut. I, therefore, am allowed by God to judge those with whom I disagree because I am willing for them to judge me by my own standard of morality. I condemn them for murdering millions of innocent babies, and I have never killed another human being, born or unborn, in my life (by the way, fetus means “baby” in Latin). So, proper judging of others supports rather than overturns the teaching of Christ. Do you think he didn’t judge the moneychangers in the Temple as being evil when he threw them out? How about the Pharisees when he called them whitewashed gravestones (spiritually dead men trying to appear as though virtuous)? Jesus recognizes, hates and judges evil people and evil actions to perfection, and so should we, as did the prophets long ago and great preachers down through the years.
If you remove your hands from your ears, you can hear the terrified, agonized screams of the deceived lambs as they are led by religious wolves in sheep’s clothing into Satan’s smoking pit.

“Pushing forward”, I thank you for your commentary on this obvious disparity. Hollywood has enough of an impact on this culture that their agenda needed to be be looked into. I must say, if Hollywood promotes all this sexuality to turn a profit, then why does the more family-friendly films to better financially? Well, I’m not sure when they’ll get it, but it was sure nice to see a liberal medium reporting on a topic which has not been touched. I also was unable to detect if the writer was a liberal or not – that’s a good sign!

Colin I challenge you to tell us all what EVIL is being perpetrated on society by homosexuals…
How do they impact YOUR life?
Evil must defind by THREAT to society not by your moralistic view of what is right and wrong.
Osama Bin Laden is EVIL…
Richard Simmons is not!
Loving a human being under ANY morality should be supported!
No one is saying you have to have dinner with them…
No one is saying you have to let your kids be with them.
It is this homophobic attitude that drives people to go away from the teachings of the one they claim to support!
LOVE YOUR ENEMY!
I was not aware that castigating fell under the LOVE column in any way shape and form!
The problem is many evangelicals think Sex itself is evil and homosexuals are one group that flaunts sexual gratification in your face!
This is the real issue…
you don’t like Sex, you are still trying to get back to the puritan values here. They were also religious zealots who left for the ludicrous reason that they decided to start celebrating christmas in england again!
It was EVIL too!

RANDY:
YOU LEFT ME OUT. I didn’t have a lot of time, but I did peruse your ramblings. I’ll take you on. I know how to play with the big boys, and it is apparent you don’t.
By the way, were you drunk or on something?
I have to complete a lot of work in the next few days, but hopefully I can reply to both you and Mike O’Leary shortly. You seemed to want to write an encyclopedia only with no credibility. Were you trying to fill up the blog so there would not be room for someone else to reply?
Judging from what MIKE O’LEARY wrote, he apparently does not know much about sex though he talks about it a lot. He is like a 14 year old boy. For certain he does not know about sex and the Christian Bible. Of course we do have sexually oppressed men in the Christian Bible like Solomon who had 700 wives and 300 concubines. Mike’s good for a laugh.

To Mike O’Leary:
Point # 2
The redeemed, the unrighteous who think they are redeemed but are not, and the remaining unrighteous all seek to have their voices heard and their views accommodated by legislation in a democracy. That is a fact and there is no need to further debate it. You claim you want your views legislated by no legislation forbidding it and also apparently heavy legislation to prevent anyone from opposing you and your cohorts.
You make the FCC out to be out of touch, unnecessary, and for all practical purposes evil. The wisest man to have ever lived, other than our Lord God Jesus Christ, is Solomon. In the wisdom literature of the Christian Bible Solomon is used by the Lord God Almighty to proclaim in Ecclesiastes 1:9c; “There is no new thing under the sun.” (King James Translation)
In the Book of Isaiah there are several woes. One is Isaiah 5:20 which says, “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” (King James Translation) You are walking living testimony of the truth of the Christian Bible. I would not advise anyone falling under the umbrella of any of these woes.
Remember the fiasco at the Super Bowl when for all practical purposes a woman’s breast was bared. It was not the FCC that acted first. It was the viewers. They did not want their children exposed to such moral depravity and wanton degradation of women. They used the FCC as a tool to put such off the air and make it a very costly mistake.
The FCC serves to protect and limit the use of air waves preventing transmission of Satan’s dung.
I read your opinion very clearly and without question given the chance men and women of your character would totally destroy the moral fabric of this nation.
At least for the protection of society such trash should be either subscribed through cable or satellite reception, or in other media removed from common view of the public especially the children.
I don’t at this time want to bring out the link of sexual deviancy to child molestation. Do you care?

To Mike O’Leary:
Point # 4 – Mike, I really don’t think you are thinking things through, and the Christian Bible.
Democracy: How does it work? Usually the majority substantially gets its way. Can the rights of minority be trampled on? It can if the Constitution or similar ruling document allows it. A majority can in time change the entire Constitution and its Amendments to something that hardly resembles what we have today.
There are around 1.3 billion Muslims in the world today of which 250,000,000 have been estimated as falling into the fundamentalist Jihadists camp. Islam is the fast growing religion in the world. It does not require a supernatural conversion such as traditional Christianity. It only requires joining, going through come rituals, and so forth, but there is no supernatural change of the heart and mind as there is in Christianity.
If sometime in the future the majority of the United States of America were to become Muslim, they could in time rewrite the constitution and amendments in such a manner that this nation would become a theocratic Muslim state governed by the Koran and other writings considered authoritative.
Islam is as much a political system as it is a religion. That is the reason the Sunnis and Shiites are so hard at it in Iraq. It is to exert political dominance.
Did you know that in some Fundamentalist Islamic camps they will kill you if you as a man do not wear a beard and homosexuality is taken care of by cutting off the head?
Regarding the fact that I went for eight years in elementary school where the 10 Commandments were posted was of benefit to all of us in my class. We also said the Pledge of Allegiance, (One nation under God), and recited the Lord’s (Model) Prayer. As a whole we have done well. Should the 10 Commandments be posted in public classrooms?
Am I forgetful on this point but did you try to either show your ignorance by making like the Christian Bible was not used in relation to U. S. law? I think you did show your ignorance didn’t you? The other choice would be that you were lying and trying to manipulated and deceive. It appears you lack credibility on this point, but I’ll deal with it anyway.
Okay, should the 10 Commandments be posted in public classrooms? That depends on if you, Mike, and your cohorts want to use a dishonest revisionist history program or if the goal is to grant the youth of the United States of America an honest portrayal of this nation’s history.
I have the “Annals of America” published by Encyclopedia Britannica which contain all the major documents going back to the discovery of America by Christopher Columbus. All through it there is a red thread of the teachings and scriptures of the Christian Bible.
The 10 Commandments are a historic document interwoven throughout United States of America and are as important to the history education of the youth of the United States of America as the Declaration of Independence, the Gettysburg Address, the Constitution with Amendments, and the Emancipation Proclamation. They are in the Supreme Court Building depicted with Moses holding them.
Or do you want American’s youth to be just flat out ignorant of United States history.
If you want to question the impact of Christianity I suggest a Google of the sermon: “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God”. It was preached by the genius theologian Jonathan Edwards and changed the course of a nation. It is in the “Annals of America” published by Encyclopedia Britannica.

To Randy:
Point 1 – Is evil perpetrated by homosexuals in today’s society?
You said to Colin: “Colin I challenge you to tell us all what EVIL is being perpetrated on society by homosexuals…
How do they impact YOUR life?
Evil must defind by THREAT to society not by your moralistic view of what is right and wrong.”
This is a simple question which deserves a simple answer.
The evil perpetrated on today’s society by the homosexual community is that a person is born a homosexual. A person is not born a homosexual. Homosexuality is a choice. Youth are being lied to sometimes through our education system. A youth being seduced into homosexuality does not need the government lying to him or her saying that is the way they were born. This is nothing but a devilish misrepresentation. There is your answer. Following is detail.
Without going over incident after incident of former homosexuals’ choices to repent of their depravity and embrace the Gospel of Our Lord God Jesus Christ I will go directly to the root of the issue. PLEASE BEAR WITH ME AS I REPEAT MYSELF.
Let’s start with gay marriage. I don’t mean to be crude but I seem to remember there to be something in high school biology about X and Y chromosomes. A male possesses an X and a Y chromosome in his DNA and a female possesses two X’s in her DNA. That is called genetic coding.
Now help me understand this. Scientifically, the genetic coding makes us who we are. Two X’s promotes femaleness and an X and a Y promotes maleness.
Do two homosexual males have one of the males with an X and a Y chromosome and the other male with two X chromosomes? The answer is no. On the same token do two homosexual women have one of the females with two X chromosomes and the other with an X and a Y chromosome? Again the answer is no. A male is simply a male and a female a female.
That means the phenomenon lies somewhere else. The Christian Bible deals with this in Genesis 3:15. This is after both Adam and Eve disobeyed the Lord God Almighty in the garden. He says, “And I will put enmity (hate) between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” (King James Translation) In the sperm of the male something evil happened. Sin (depravity) became a part of genetic coding other than the X and Y chromosomes.
That is why you HATE the Church of our Lord God Jesus Christ so much. God put that hate there. Possibly that will explain a lot to you about yourself.
There are some people who have trouble with or tendencies to anger, some with lust, some with alcoholism, some with homosexuality, etc. where someone else would not have the least issue, but rather in some other area is seduced such as into the worst sin which is selfish pride.
In this verse it talks of the seed of the woman. There is only one place in history that that happened and that was in the virgin birth where Mary birthed Christ. There was what seemed to be an unfathomable gulf between mankind and the Lord God Almighty, but that gulf was bridged when God took on the form of flesh as the Lord God Jesus Christ. God lived the perfect life man could not and paid the sin debt of all mankind; past, present, and future.
Salvation is an individual decision. We can’t join a church group, we can’t do good deeds, we can’t be baptized, we can’s partake of the communion or the “Holy Eucharist, nor can we be born into a certain family and receive eternal life in Heaven. We must simple sorrowfully regret and therefore turn from our sins (depravity) and put our faith totally on Christ for our salvation. Once obtained, there is nothing we can do to cast aside our salvation, but disobedience still does have a cost.
Children are protected until they reach what can accurately be called the age of responsibility. It is unique to each child.

My Judgementalism is being used to show you how things might be should christians ever find themselves not in the Majority anymore…
And you must admit with all the scandals recently from fallen priests and this percieved fear that christians want to run everyone’s life people are running and leaving the church in droves…
But nothing about those quoted scriptures say Jesus himself was judging people. He was judging Christians. Not everyone! Those scriptures are meant for those who wish to be good christians. Jesus was just fine leaving the choice of being a christian or not to the individual. Faith according to jesus must be a free choice or the faith means nothing! It is a lie to god!
So yes I am being judgemental here…History has shown Christianity is just as capable of being Evil as anyone else has. We have the Crusades and Inquisition on our resume. Were those also sanctioned by the scriptures? Or were the scriptures “INTERPRETED” as you are doing now to try and bash your latest crusade target?
The word of god should not be open to interpretation by mere humans!
It is those interpretations that have caused Christianity to abandon the teachings of Jesus. you think we might have learned that lesson by now! the Muslims figured out this game and are just now getting around to doing it!
Jesus left us with one final commandment…The whole Do unto others…
Well Jesus never intended us to villify those who are not christian nor urge us to try to deny them happiness because they are not christian. Committing a Sin is not EVIL it is Human! God knows this which is why he forgives us of ALL of our sins!
It is right to think to yourself that someone is not a good christian. It is even right to decide not to associate with that person because of their sinful lifestyle.
But it is not right to berate them publicly and deny them their pursuit of happiness. Truth is the christians that fight the homosexuals give them much more publicity than homosexuals get themselves!
EB – Well X and Y simply denotes gender. Yes the term cross gender is badly used by homosexuals just as Evil has been badly used here in the case of someone who lives a lifestyle that does not really impact your life and your family by their lifestyle choice.
I personally do not think Homosexuals are born, I agree it may have to do with upbringing.
but homosexuality may well have some genetic markers in common. Hormonal levels are set by both genetics and enviornment. The only TRUE difference between the X and the Y chromosome is that the Y chromo has fewer genes than the X. this is why some things like color blindness affect mostly males. Genes work on dominance and reccesion. Who knows we may one day find out that the gene on the X that produces estrogen can be more dominant than the gene on the Y that produces Testosterone. But I believe even if there is a genetic tie in to homosexuality as with most genetic traits the enviornment has as much to do with triggering that trait into action.
which means that is a failure of parenting if that is the case and that is the crux of why I am against the FCC regulations we conservatives have been trying to force down the country’s throat. By doing so we are HELPING to forment BAD PARENTING because we are relieving them of their responsability to talk to, nuture,spend time with, explain this thing called life and love their children!
Conservatives should be trying to get parents MORE involved in their childrens upbringing not giving them a pass by allowing them to say ok kid, sit in front of the TV while I go shopping because Congress will make sure my kid is raised right! Hell Congress can’t even make a fire with two sticks (both matches) without 14 committee hearings and a staff of 1000…
We as conservatives should return to conservative principles that have worked for us for years which state that the goverment is incapable of doing ANYTHING effectively lets simply put the power and responsability to the people…
This means instead of legislation limiting TV content lets force parents to have to be vigilant on their own where their children are involved…
Then when a lie is told or something they do not like thier children to see is shown the parents are there to teach their kids what is right and what is wrong! Explain what they just saw and put the moral lessons to it!
As far as the “EVIL” lies that you percieve homosexuals are trying to perpetrate as far as the genetics, well that is because we have supported “EVIL” acts against their right to live. We have in a sense forced them to say these things as our civil rights are written in a way that you only have the right to live your life differently and only have CIVIL Rights if you are being persecuted for something you were born with.
The argument wouldn’t be made if there was no persecution made publicly.
If they could get Married then they would not have to fight for what they deem to be their Civil Rights.
If they could go to work without the fear of getting fired for something that has nothing to do with their work there would be no need to suggest these lies.
I don’t consider that EVIL I consider it survival.
Back someone into a corner eventually they will lie cheat and steal to survive.
Maybe if we christians nurtured them more instead of lionized them they would eventually get the nurturing they didn’t get when they were children!
If we accepted them into the church just as we accept those who have committed other sins we might have a better chance of showing them the way.
But by making them the enemy our message will never get to them.
It is my religious view that men are not worthy of judging on God’s Behalf.
Not worthy of interpreting the teachings. Jesus didn’t ask us to force his views and morals on others he asked us to expose to the others by example the best way to live!
Unfortunatly much of what we base our religious teachings and scripture on these days was formented in the Dark Ages not the age of the dawn of christianity.
The romans almost have more words put into the Bible than Jesus does! And there are many books that have been discarded because they didn’t fit in with the romans interpretation of the Gospel!
I put my faith in GOD not Man!
I leave the judgement of others to God not man!
My judgementalism in this blog is to show you how easy the current political climate can change where christians are no longer the majority…
whoever does become the Majority will start judging christians and defining EVIL as THEY see fit.
They will take our actions as an example and use them against us!
Do unto others!
This is why we must change our tactics. Government can not be trusted with my tax dollars or to enforce my sense of morality!
And the attempts to let them do that only lead more people who DO believe in the teachings over to the Liberal side!
If they should ever become the majority and excersize their MAJORITY RULE MORALITY the world may turn into a very evil place as it is being defined here. We may even be the ones whose rights are denied. you may be forced to hire a homosexual since their morality says they are morally justified to work.
We stand at the edge of a cliff. If we go too far in pressing our morality we will fall over the cliff and that morality will shatter!
It is better to show restraint, and Love these sinners instead of trying to deny them their pursuit of happiness!
In a way the gospel is similar to the constitution. Both are a framework that works in most situations.
Considering how badly our congress has handled our constitution I’ll be damned before I let them start taking control of the scriptures and morality as well!

I’m amused by the notion that the “liberal” bent in Hollywood is somehow sinister.
Hollywood cranks out an assembly line product designed to appeal to the masses. Hollywood’s aesthetics must mesh with the public’s politics (politics is really nothing more than aesthetics in a tuxedo, anyway) or the product won’t sell. To the extent that Hollywood is “liberal,” it is because the society is equally liberal. That’s the primary reason the social conservatives are so vein popping, stridently hostile; try as they may, invoke damnation, Hell fire, moral corruption and societal decay, the vast majority of the country has and still does reject them and their book as the arbiters of morality.
And Hollywood wasn’t always “liberal.” Remember the Hays commission? John Wayne? The blacklist? What film from the 30s through 50s didn’t show God in his heaven, clean scrubbed white (always white) kids saying their evening prayers, and our side prevailing because God was with us? Indians were scalping savages; Fu Manchu was the Yellow Peril; and let’s not even bother with blacks!! Who were the heroes of the 30s and 40s—Gable, Bogart, Gary Cooper. Hardly limp wrested or libertines, they were manly men!! And I’m still looking for the liberal bias in Gone With the Wind (ah, now there was a conservative’s dream—whites were masters, blacks were slaves, and God sanctioned it all!!), Casablanca or the Sands of Iwo Jima. And the right held sway all through the 50s, when John Wayne and Charlton Heston ruled. Liberal bias? In Ben Hur, the Alamo, the Ten Commandments? Or could anyone believe the Graduate could have been made in 1935; or Taxi Driver in 1945; or Brokeback Mountain in 1955?
So, what happened? The obvious—the world changed; the sixties happened, and the baby boom by sheer mass of numbers restructured everything, including artistic notions. Hollywood became and stayed liberal because the country became and has stayed liberal. The cons can whine all they want, but the same notion of freedom that allows nudity, “vulgar” language and every other expression of reality that incurs their formidable wrath is the same concept that allows them to propagate their insufferably righteous notions of morality that bore the rest of us to tears.
When ever I hear this crap about the evils of Hollywood liberalism, I always ask why it’s considered evil. Invariably, the answer is deceptively simple: whether Joad questioning the system in Grapes of Wrath, or two cowboys thrashing about in Brokeback Mountain, the ideas are “objectionable,” which is a euphemism for disturbing, and what’s disturbing about them is that they made the viewer, at some level or another, question, if ever so faintly, ever so tentatively, something in his belief structure. And that little chink in the armor can be devastating, terrifying to those who aren’t entirely convinced of that which they preach. We all know these—they’re the ones who scream the loudest. They obsess with morals because they have none of their own. Nixon should have taught us all this lesson—run like hell from moralists!!
Which prompts me to wonder what this article was all about. The answer is so obvious as to make the question irrelevant. Why ask such a thing unless you know it’s going to provoke, and the rabble, thus roused, navigates to this website and posts comments.
It is rather predictable, that the majority, certainly the most long winded, have been those delineating some rather curious notions of theology.
Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn.

I wish Moran dwelled longer on his original point: artists and the people who love them (and I think that includes most Hollywood producers and mogels) are independent, creative thinkers who aren’t beholden to some kneejerk dogma. If that makes them “liberals,” so be it. I think it’s cynical to believe that Hollywood’s sole motive is profit.
Sadly, “conservative thought” has become an oxymoron. When conservatives vociferously rail against the irrefutable science of global warming and evolution, they demonstrate a mean parochialism and anti-intellectualism which will ultimately marginalize them.

To Mike O’Leary:
You did not understand Romans 3:23. You didn’t understand the fact that sin is evil.
You lose all credibility as it pertains to theology.
Just what are you doing? Are you just jerking people around? Are you just playing some sort of game.
Here is Christ’s teaching. Check it out. “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.” Matthew 7:6
You are flying all over the place on issues. I am done with you.

Mr. Moran, Hollywood is only a city in Southern California, it ceased to be the movie capital long ago, just like Detroit ceased to be the auto capital. Liberal vs. conservative? That is a non-question. Liberals long ago abandoned any pretense to humanist ideology, and moved across the line to the right in order to get the votes that allow them to participate in the corruption of our country (as if having the most votes still matters nowadays). Conservatives have become rabid, unapologetic corrupt racists, religionists and elitists, who are surprisingly liberal when it comes to spending money to kill, imprison and destroy. Lib vs. Con is a non-issue now, the fact that politicians are no more than cheap prostitutes is the news that should be exposed by the press media, yet your journalist fraternity/sorority also pimp the game for access and ratings. Wake up, Mr. Moran, the USA’s fat lady is warming up in the wings, and unless people like yourself begin to understand your role as journalists, and present real news, rather than the propaganda of the elite, your profession will also be regarded by history as a contributor to the fall of America, and you will live to see it, in fact you may well be only ten to fifteen years older than you are now. Total and unrelenting war against corruption will save America, the sham that Bushco calls war on “terrorism” is only hastening its’ demise. Lib vs. Con? Please don’t waste the media space with irrelevant information.

Thank you so much Mr. Moran. These blogs are so important.
To a Mike O’Leary; a man who thinks death is not evil:
I had planned to cut this conversation off, but your last post actually does have relevance to the liberal nature of Hollywood. It is “your okay, I’m okay, and we’re all okay.”
Now I still have reservations regarding debating rather juvenile issues. The Christian Bible warns of debating or correcting a fool. You will waste your time and he or she will resent you.
I do need to correct my post related to “The wages of sin is death”. I used the reference of 3:23a and it is Romans 6:23a. The whole verse is “FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (King James Translation)
SO YOU DO NOT THINK THAT DEATH IS EVIL. I think that is fitting nicely into liberal Hollywood thinking. We have the slaughter of the most innocents supported by a defective Supreme Court decision: Rowe vs. Wade. How about the nursing homes? Let’s open the liberal door a little farther and euthanize those incapable of taking care of their selves, and also according to your standard otherwise outright murder is not evil.
Boy, you are really a piece of work.
So is Hollywood. “Brad Bushman and Craig Anderson, authors of “Media Violence and the American Public,” state that by the time a child in the U. S. graduates elementary, they “will have seen 8,000 murders and more than 100,000 other assorted acts of violence on network television.” Hollywood has made the depiction of murder and violence an industry. I take it that because you are adamant that sin is not evil then the 8,000 murders and 100,000 other acts of violence shown to children are totally appropriate.
In 2005, in California, there were 190,178 acts of violence, 1,200,532 property crimes, 2,503 murders, 9,392 forcible rapes, 63,622 robberies, 114,661 aggravated assaults, 250,521 robberies, 692,467 larceny thefts, and 257,543 vehicle thefts.
All these are sin according to the Scriptures of the Christian Bible. JUST HOW LOW AND CORRUPT ARE YOU TO TRY TO MAKE THAT THESE ACTS ARE NOT EVIL, or are you just shucking and jiving? HURRAY FOR HOLLYWOOD.
I have come to the realization that I must often deal on an elementary level here regarding your lack of understand if what you are writing is really what you think and you actually do not understand.
The word “sin” as quoted here is “hamartia” in the Greek. It means “offense”. Offense against whom? It is offense against the Lord God Almighty as well as the same; the second person of the Trinity – our Lord God Jesus Christ. How do we know we have sinned? It is when we disobey the Holy Scriptures of the Christian Bible. These are God’s Word.
WHY CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE SIMPLEST THINGS OF THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY? The Apostle Paul explains in the First Epistle (letter) to the Corinthians, Second Chapter, verses 12 to 16 as follows: “Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But HE THAT IS SPIRITUAL JUDGETH ALL THINGS, YET HE HIMSELF IS JUDGED OF NO MAN. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.” (King James Translation)
REMEMBER WHEN YOU TRIED THE “JUDGE NOT” GARBAGE. A Christian who seeks to be obedient to Christ has the right to judge all things. You have no right to judge any such Christian. It is sin.
This is the reason Hollywood is so perverted. They have not understanding. For those who like to place the depraved influence somewhere other than Hollywood then why are the most elite Academy Awards there if it is not centermost in the filth that has become so substantial?
How do we know what is God’s Word? God’s Word is living. It has life in it. It is literally “God-Breathed” whatever prophet or disciple He was using to pen one of the 66 books. God’s word has the capacity to reveal sin as well as the gift of eternal life.
Okay, let’s get to the evil stuff. FIRST, HAVE I SINNED, AND DO I CONTINUE TO SIN? THE ANSWER IS YES. The Apostle Paul explains in Romans 3:23 as follows: “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” (King James Translation) The Apostle John explains in I John 1:8-10 “IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NO SIN, WE DECEIVE OURSELVES, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US. IF WE CONFESS OUR SINS, HE IS FAITHFUL AND JUST TO FORGIVE US OUR SINS, AND TO CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NOT SINNED, WE MAKE HIM A LIAR, AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US.”
You see through my personal experience of salvation when as an eleven year old boy I simply prayed to Christ three words; “Jesus save me”. I am granted eternal life and I escape the penalty of the bodily existence of eternal death in the “Lake of Fire”. Of course there was more going on. I understood that Christ bore the total sin debt of all mankind in all past, present, and future history on the Cross of Calvary. I also knew I needed forgiveness. I knew I needed to turn from (repent of) sin. It is on this basis that when I requested salvation I was granted the gift of eternal life.
WHAT MAKES THE CHRISTIAN DIFFERENT IS THAT HE OR SHE HAS RECEIVED THE FORGIVENESS OF OUR LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST. What about the Christian who lives a life of disobedience? They experience some degree of eternal loss in Heaven rather than accumulating eternal riches. There will be some who will barely escape the fire. Whatever the case, no one in Heaven or the Lake of Fire will have a right to complain for all eventually are judged by the omniscient Lord.
Now where does the Bible specifically say that sin is evil in the same sentence? I remember in the first grade the first reader used was Tip and was about a puppy. It started off learning the name Tip by itself. It then taught a two word sentence using Tip’s name. From your last posting that appears to be what you need to be able to understand. I may not be able to reduce an answer for you to a three single syllable word sentence.
Sin separated Adam and Eve from their perfect relation to God and resulted in their having to leave paradise in the Garden of Eden. They also would eventually die. They also had to make their existence among the thorns and rocks of the rest of the world. This is the ORIGINAL SIN that caused the DNA of mankind to be defective affecting all mankind and CONDEMNING ALL MANKIND TO THE ETERNAL LAKE OF FIRE UNLESS THERE WAS REDEMPTION. They exercised their LIBERAL free will and decimated mankind in general. All the hardship upon mankind resulted from this first sin. We will make this simple multiple choice. Was this good or evil? (I suggest that you Google “Original Sin” if you need help.)
Cain became jealous of Abel because God preferred Abel’s blood sacrifice rather than Cain’s grain sacrifice. Cain was warned in Genesis 4:6-8; “And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, SIN LIETH AT THE DOOR. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, THAT CAIN ROSE UP AGAINST ABEL HIS BROTHER, AND SLEW HIM.” (King James Translation)
If you don’t know, the word SLEW MEANS MURDERED. Cain was warned he was about to SIN. HE MURDERED HIS BROTHER. Here is multiple choice again. Was this good or evil? Here you have murder specifically called sin. Do you need some help?
OF COURSE MURDER IS SO OFTEN DEPICTED BY HOLLYWOOD IT MAY BE THAT YOUR MIND IS REPROBATE AND YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF DISCERNING THAT MURDER IS EVIL.

To all of you who wish to promote your own interpretations of your religion on this forum, spare us, your beliefs are just that, your beliefs. To present belief as fact is to sow confusion and discord, and we all know whose work that is. The subject was not about religion, but of the political leaning of the US mass media. In truth, it can be stated that there is an overwhelming tilt to the right, as evidenced by Fox News, and CNN, who unquestionably and unfailingly echo the line of the neocons. Where was journalistic integrity when Busco was disseminating his lies to stir up war fever for Afghanistan and Iraq? Why is there no follow up to ask how the Saudis connected to the hijackings on 9/11 became Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Iraq? Why wasn’t Colin Powell called to explain the falsity of the evidence he presented to the UN? Why does no one question the Carlysle Group ties between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family? Why isn’t Robert Novak charged with aiding and abetting the treasonous leaking of Valerie Plume’s name? No coverage of the hundreds (if not thousands) of illegally-held detainees in Guantanamo and other torture centers world-wide? Or at least explain to the families of convicted and incarcerated drug users why the Bush twins are still walking the streets free? Movies are fantasy, some of which is reflection on reality, anyone with half a brain knows this. America discourages true family interaction by requiring ever increasing amounts of work from its slaves, at the cost of “family time”, so if kids become desensitized to violence, having Dick Cheney harping about the need to kill even more Iraqis is even more dangerous, because his fantasies and delusions become reality for those who have to go to die. A truly liberal Hollywood would have and should have been all over these evidences of corruption like they were over Clinton’s cigar preferences, but where are they? Liberal? Get real, what it seems you’re asking is how come there are no ku klux klan/nazi shows to champion the cause of the unevolved…

Well Colin to keep it short and sweet in reply….
I have offerred about as much proof of my christianity as you have!
Anyone even a non christian can read the bible and quote it.
And transposing word in the bible to mean what you want them to mean is simple blasphemy!
There are many people who call themselves believers who take word from the good book and make it mean what they want. They are the TRUE evil in this world!
Thou shall not kill is transposed to Thou should not kill Christians but everyone else is ok (IE. the Crusades, Inquisition)
Show thy enemy love is transposed to “do everything you can to make them out as evil incarnate”
I believe in the Teachings in the book! I believe in the message and in Jesus and God.
I do not believe in these evangelical monarch notes where meaning is changed just to support your political goals and objectives!
I believe in a seperation of Church and state just as Jesus did!
Maybe you haven’t gotten around to translating that part yet but Jesus was not interested in the physical kingdom. The rules he gave us were for getting to his spiritual kingdom and if others did not want to follow that path of enlightenment he did not want us to try and force them towards the path or to make their life miserable by infringing their rights in an attempt to get them on the path!
unfortunatly that seems to be the lesson most often missed by the evangelicals!
It’s all about revelations which was so controversial it was almost omitted from the bible by the Romans.
It was only kept in because of the same reasons it is being used now!
To try and maintain some control via fear of the population! It is a political tool in that respect and does little to nothing towards saving souls!
ED – You define Death as Evil…
I don’t!
Remember you have to die before you can go to heaven…Is that an evil act?
“To be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23)
In the bible there are two types of death…physical and spiritual!
Physical death is not evil…
Spiritual death is sad but again not evil. There are many people who are good people, and despite their unbelief would gladly be accepted into the kingdom of God.
Death in itself is not evil!
Dying with sin is the only true death! Because you will die with no more chances of redeeming your soul, going to sleep and into the kingdom of heaven!
But God is merciful. and he will care more about your actions against his children than he will about belief and self destructive sins.
I consider a homosexual who has not committed any other sins than laying down with his fellow man a better person more deserving of a trip to heaven than someone who is a devout believer but decided to bomb some abortion clinic in his name!
God will judge them and until such time as we as humans are raised to his level we should not attempt to take over that part of his domain.
Show compassion to sinners and in that compassion you may hope to spark change in them, but even if that change is not forthcoming it is their right to follow any spiritual path they see fit!
This is the test that God has put before us to weed out the souls who do not deserve everlasting life in heaven.
I am a christian but I am also an american!
I believe in letting people have the right to choose how they live that life provided their choice and sins do not infringe upon my rights to live a spiritual and happy life!
And nothing in the bible says that is wrong!
Brian – Sorry we have taken over your typical liberal puking site…
Sorry but there are about 500 other blogs on ABC for you liberals to whine on.

Brian:
Don’t worry about Bush and company. All die, I die, you die, Bush eventually dies hopefully of natural cause, and celebrities in Hollywood die. After that there will be judgment. The Christians will be judged as to the amount of eternal reward they will receive.
Those who think they are Christians because of good works or false beliefs are judged according to their works to in the end be cast into torment in the eternal Lake of Fire along with Satan, his demons, and the false prophet, as well as all the rest of mankind that are not redeemed by the blood of Christ.
If Bush has done wrong and he is a Christian his eternal reward will be less in Heaven. If he is not redeemed by the blood of Christ he will be judged according to his works and be cast into the Lake of Fire with most of the Hollywood crowd.
Brian, If I was you I would be worrying about myself.

To Terry Green:
If I do a cut and paste other than Scripture, quotes, and statistics I mention it. The quotes are apparent usually set in apostrophes. The cut and paste is done for the sake of accuracy and speed. The rest I do not cut and paste. Scriptures don’t change, so what is the sense of typing it out with the risk of a typing error. It is the same with statistics, and quotes. I just don’t want to be STUPID using an inefficient and risky method. Do you want to be STUPID using inefficient and risky methods of communication? Do you think that is the best way to communicate? That is Hogwash.
Hollywood is only a part of the problem. What makes them, their cronies, their associates, and their accomplices so influential and responsible is their access to media.
Now just let me ask you the effect of the average viewing of 8,000 murders and 100,000 other acts of violence during the eight developmental years of an elementary school age student. JUST HOW MANY CHILDREN HAVE YOU WORKED WITH AND WHAT ARE YOUR QUALIFICATIONS? I was trained by the best.
Violence is increasing because of lack of self-restraint. That is the product of liberalism. When Hollywood and company feed youth 8,000 images of murder and 100,000 images of other violence in eight years what do you expect?
WHAT ABOUT THE RAPES, THE OTHER SEXUAL VIOLENCE, AND THOSE WHO DECIDE TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP TO CHILD MOLESTATION AND PEDOPHILIA? SIN IS A STEP BY STEP PROCESS. THERE IS ALWAYS THAT NEXT STEP. WHAT ABOUT ALL THE MISSING CHILDREN EVERY YEAR? ARE THEY CAPTIVE, MURDERED, OR SOLD INTO SEX SLAVERY? JUST WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM AND WHY DID IT HAPPEN?
I know a little about kids. I know what makes them tick. During 15 years of my ministry I worked with over 7,000 kids. I KNOW THE DAMAGE A CARELESS AND REPROBATE MEDIA PRESENCE DOES TO THEM. I HAVE PERSONALLY WITNESSED IT.
Hollywood and company’s liberal actions and natural lack of restraint are nothing but damaging the very fabric on which this nation is founded.
Now I know that probably did not change your mind at all.
Let me cut and paste a little. Christ informs in Luke 12:45-49,
“45. But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46. THE LORD OF THAT SERVANT WILL COME IN A DAY WHEN HE LOOKETH NOT FOR HIM, AND AT AN HOUR WHEN HE IS NOT AWARE, AND WILL CUT HIM IN SUNDER, AND WILL APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE UNBELIEVERS.
47. AND THAT SERVANT, WHICH KNEW HIS LORD’S WILL, AND PREPARED NOT HIMSELF, NEITHER DID ACCORDING TO HIS WILL, SHALL BE BEATEN WITH MANY STRIPES.
48. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
49. I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?”(KING
JAMES COPY AND PASTE)
Now Terry Green, let me explain something. This is not a copy and paste. You decided to use this blog. IT IS THE BEST BLOG I HAVE EVER SEEN, SO I CAN SEE YOUR INTEREST.
I don’t know how many people will read your blogging. Since this blog can be read world wide let’s just pretend there are 1,000,000 hits that read your opinion. You are influencing 1,000,000 to determine that you are either lack understanding or that you do have understanding.
Let’s estimate that 100,000 people are influenced to the point that the influence leads them unwaveringly on the path to the eternal Lake of Fire. The Christian Bible explains that the eternal torment involves weeping and gnashing of teeth.
There are 100,000 weeping people in the eternal Lake of Fire that are going to look you up. Like the careless servant Christ speaks of your taking on great responsibility and influencing many men, women, and children to the path to eternal torment. Therefore, your torment is great.
The greatest torment you would face under this scenario is the fact of 100,000 people gnashing on you for eternity in a molten lake with a eternal corrupted body. Every sin will be ever present with perfect memory in your depraved mind causing constant weeping.
HURRAY FOR HOLLYWOOD.

to Mr. Ebbarn, I am indeed worried about myself, when criminals like Mr. Bush go unpunished by the laws he took an oath on your precious Bible to protect, history shows us that apathy often leads to us being the next victims. Perhaps you feel at a safe distance from the effects of Mr. Bush, therefore you can consign his judgement to your Deity, but those of us who have experienced the madness feel the need to act to prevent such in what future we have left. If I accept your beliefs, perhaps it makes you happy, but still does nothing about the threat that Mr. Bush, and like-minded monsters pose to our posterity. I would rather die on my feet in the attempt to protect myself, rather than submit on my knees to the whims of those people, hands clasped in the illusion that some “higher power” will somehow make it all ok. You should indeed also worry about the atrocities being committed in your name as an American. Acceptance means the blood of innocents is also on your hands, according to your own religious tenets. Are you convinced that Mr. Bush actually believes he is doing good? All documents and ststements to date indicate that Mr. Bush knows full well this is an illegal coup, pogrom and lynching, solely to facilitate economic corruption. It seems that you have chosen to believe lies that Mr. Bush doesn’t even believe himself. Sorry, I cannot be silent on the matter, I will always oppose wherever and whenever I can, such despotism, passive acceptance of sin via convenient ignorance is also sin, is it not? Yes I do indeed worry about myself, it is why I protest, and anyone professing so-called religion should feel duty-bound to resist state-sponsored violation of almost every one of Moses’ “Ten Commandments”. Time for all self-professed Christians to stop “straining at gnats… (Hollywood) and swallowing camels” (Bushco). Do you, Mr Ebbarn have the courage of your conviction?

To Mr.Moran, check out ABC’s “town hall” editorials on this site, all the Nazis you could ever wish for spout their filth there, unopposed by any voice of logic or reason. We know ABC studios are on Fountain Ave. and Vine St., and also on Gower St., both in Hollywood. Is Hollywood liberal? Please direct me to ABC’s editorial web page where there are opinions other than those of the extremist right wingnuts pretending to be the voice of some imaginary mainstream, or the slightly more moderate right wing nuts pretending to be liberals. Please refer me to archives where any of the mainstream media did anything other than echo the lies and propaganda put out by Bushco in the drumming up of “support” for the murders in Afghanistan and Iraq. Please refer me to where mainstream media is demanding accountability for the needless, wanton death and destruction visited upon those countries and upon our own soldiers as those peoples defend themselves from the Bushco holocaust. And many of your bloggers do nothing but quote scriptures taken out of the original context, to suggest that watching staged fantasy violence on TV is somehow more detrimental than the reality of Bushco and right wing corrupt foreign policy creating real violence in the real world. What liberals? Its been a very long time since I saw any, except for those who don’t mind being liberal for corrupt military purposes only…

Why are you taking this blog about Hollywood and misusing it?
Are you an American or are you an implant of Al Qaida? In the United States a person is innocent until proven guilty. You had unquestionable disdain for this process and principle. That means you have ignorance or disdain for the democratic legal process of this United States.
You talk of crimes. Are you an attorney or are you trained otherwise in law? The accusations you are directing at President Bush are related to what documents and how do any such documents and other evidentiary material attach their selves to President Bush? What witnesses are there to support your claim?
The liberal Democrats hate Bush. Are you so dense that if President Bush were guilty of crimes against humanity, he would not be being prosecuted? Do you have more information than they? If so, YOU MUST REALLY BE AN IMPORTANT PERSON, OR IS IT REALLY THE REALITY THAT YOU ARE A LEGEND IN YOUR OWN MIND?
Why do you hate the Bible and ridicule it? Is it because you yourself hate its moral principles or you are in denial that you will be judged and you will be judged for how you are judging? IS IT THE FACT THAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY THE GODLESS PERSON?
From what you say you seem to have no such belief. If I were you I would be scared to death of everything. There would be a shadow behind every corner.
As far as my belief, it does bring comfort and peace to my being. I voice my opinions in the democratic process.
WHAT EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE THAT THE AMERICAN POPULATION IS TO BE THE NEXT VICTIM OF SOME MYSTERY ATROCITY? Where is the evidence of military assignment to this end? Are you suffering from mental disease involving paranoia?
Why do you hate the military? These so called atrocities would not have physically been done by Bush? It would have had to have been done by the military. There have been hundreds of thousand of military personnel who have served in Iraq. There will be criminals in the military and there will be those who have lapses in judgment.
Why don’t you compare the crime rate in the military to the crime rate in the general public in the United States? I think I am safe in saying the crime rate is much greater among the general population of the United States. The difference is the media is more likely broadcast crimes and lapses of judgment in Iraq and rightfully so.
Regardless you and your family are in greater danger of being a victim of crime from the general population present right now than an Iraqi is of the United States military. You can’t see the nose in front of your face.
How do the “atrocities” you speak about compare with wars of the past starting with the Revolutionary War? War is a nasty business. As far as any such senseless conspiracy theory they are always communicate among the weak minded.
You make a lot of accusations or slander. Again, what is your empirical evidence for you assertions?
Why is it you ramble around forcing a glump of senseless words instead of sensibly dividing your discourse into sensible paragraphs? Is it because you lack the ability to sensibly communicate? Are you the product of a liberal education system? Is that the reason you lack communication skills, grammar skills, analytical skills, sociological skills, knowledge of history, inability to research and support claims with empirical evidence, etc.
You talk of documents as evidence but you do not present point and reference. I assume that is because you can not substantially produce.
You challenge my courage. Maybe we can arrange a face to face discussion. My neighbor shoots over my head. I don’t think a squirmy punk like you can intimidate me. As far as my neighbor, I am working through the court system regarding him.
If you know so much come forth in Federal court and accommodate Federal prosecutors to have President Bush indicted. Produce your evidence. You can do that if what you are saying is true. If you are so strong in your convictions and you have a legitimate charge then use the court systems.
You wrote, “I would rather die on my feet in the attempt to protect myself, rather than submit on my knees to the whims of those people, hands clasped in the illusion that some “higher power” will somehow make it all ok.” This is a sign of the times. You have elevated your self above the Lord God Almighty. You are not worthy to be a janitor in the Lake of Fire, much less become God. That is part of the first sin. Adam and Eve wanted to be as God.
What I am saying is put up or shut up. If what you are asserting is true then come forth with the evidence.
I expect nothing but a bunch of talk from you, because that is all you are. It is just talk.
Come and see me. We can discuss matters at the local DoJo.

Brian – You are just pissed that Bush acted on your own rhetoric…
Every lie and action Bush took was invented by a democrat!
IE:
1 – “[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” — From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998
2 – “Saddam’s goal … is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed.” — Madeline Albright, 1998
3 – “(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983″ — National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998
4 – “Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement.” — Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002
5 – “The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability.” — Robert Byrd, October 2002
6 – “There’s no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat… Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He’s had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001… He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn’t have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we.” — Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002
7 – “The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow.” — Bill Clinton in 1998
8 – “In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.” — Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002
9 – “I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out.” — Clinton’s Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003
10 – “Saddam Hussein’s regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal.” — John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002
Just a few of the “BUSHCO” Lies bought at LIBMART!

To Brian from Colin Cody…
You have said: “Are you convinced that Mr. Bush actually believes he is doing good? All documents and statements to date indicate that Mr. Bush knows full well this is an illegal coup, pogrom and lynching, solely to facilitate economic corruption. It seems that you have chosen to believe lies that Mr. Bush doesn’t even believe himself.”
Quite to the contrary, Brian, Mr. Bush’s statements all clearly indicate that he does indeed believe in the justice and morality of the Iraq war to this very day. He does not, nor does the great majority of sane Americans, believe that it was planned and prosecuted as an instrument of “economic corruption,” as Islamics and communists around the world would have simpletons believe. Mr. Bush and just about everyone else in government was led astray by faulty intelligence as we have been reminded again in Mike’s excellent post above.
The fundamental mistake in this war was in our ignorant assumption that the Iraqi people could live under and would welcome a democratic form of government. It was so assumed because, although the planners understood how to initially defeat Hussein’s army, they failed to understand accurately the backward people of that country and the nature of their weird religion of hate. The day will never come when Iraqis can live in a democracy, and that sad fact should almost be dawning on most of the boobs and dingbats of both parties in Washington just about now.
The only way out of this odiferous swamp is to do what we should have done in the beginning, i.e., put Iraq back under the domination of a political strong man, but this time a morally good, highly intelligent charismatic leader. They need a man who will brook no division and no terrorism, a man who is willing to use crushing military force to keep the competing religious factions in line. Had the war been carried out with wisdom and intelligence, we would have installed such a man when Iraq surrendered. Then we could have immediately left the country for home…mission accomplished with very few casualties and vastly less treasure squandered.
Who’s to blame for all these tragic, thoroughly mindless, horrendous mistakes? Surely, it would not be unfair to lay the blame at the feet of nearly everyone now in government and many of those who preceded these hopeless incompetents. Just because a man or woman can be elected by the ignorant, easily deceived electorate does not mean that he or she is anything more than a mere vote getter. Wise leadership is altogether another matter indeed. Very high quality people must start to get involved in politics or our nation is likely to be destroyed by nincompoops from within and vicious haters from without.

to Mr. Colin
I find it hard to accept that Mr. Bush cares about the lives of the “downtrodden Iraqis and Afghanis” when Americans are suffering in poverty, education is practically non-existant for a large segment of the country, Social Security for the aged has been bankrupted, health care is unaffordable, and Mr. Bush responds by giving even more taxpayer money to the already rich.
even more egregious crimes are occurring in Africa, and Mr. Bush says nothing other than the occasional tsk tsk.
His sources of intel had their own agenda, I also find it hard to believe that the US has no way to verify the integrity of the sources, Indeed Mr. Chalabi, one of Bush’s favorite sources, is wanted for fraud, ans has long been shown to be untrustworthy. Bush was set to make him the next Iraqi president, until news of his unscrupulous dealings surfaced in many places worldwide, and couldn’t be covered up.
Check your polls, even the right-leaning Fox News and CNN report polls indicating that the majority of the US believes the war was begun on false pretense, and is “unwinnable”. Indeed, how can one win a war that has no clear aim other than jingoistic sloganism that cannot be achieved even in the US, didn’t we learn this from Vietnam?
We cannot even find high quality people to enter government in the US, how can we presume to do so anywhere else?

Mr Colin
You wrote;
“they failed to understand accurately the backward people of that country and the nature of their weird religion of hate. The day will never come when Iraqis can live in a democracy, and that sad fact should almost be dawning on most of the boobs and dingbats of both parties in Washington just about now.”
It is not a weird religion of hate, the Prophet’s words simply confirmed the writings and deeds of Moses and the prophets that came after, including Esa bin Yusuf, or Jesus as he is known in Christian circles. Read, and gain wisdom.
The problem is that Islam also has its pimps, just like those who claim Christianity, who twist the words to fit their own ideology, and accuse those who don’t agree of being infidels. (see “ebbarn | Mar 20, 2007 8:47:30 AM” for an example)
The sooner people understand this, the sooner the pimps on both sides lose their power to influence, and the sooner war for religious reasons ceases to make any sense. (as if it ever did…:) Peace

Brian – You certainly have made many assumptions about the WMDs and their existence and you too present no proof for your assertions either…
At least Bush HAD intelligence photos and those photos were determined by the best analysts we had to be photos of WMD production.
It wasn’t just the US Govt that was convinced, nearly every country in the world believed he had them!
The US didn’t invent the Yellowcake intelligence the British MI6 did!
If you want to simplify the lack of evidence as evidence there were no WMDs then you must also apply that to this…
Taking over Iraq has stopped the terrorists and killed their ability to attack the US!
Since no attack has been perpetrated since we took that country over!
Saying that is no different than you saying well since we haven’t found WMD there were none!
You scream about the loss of Innocents but sadly you don’t include the loss of life at the WTC in that statement. We didn’t attack anyone yet close to 3000 lives were lost on 9/11.
How Quickly some people forget!
the only mistake that was made is the same mistake that has always been made when this country has gone to war…
Our Generals think a little too much of their capability and underestimate what it takes to control a country!
Our Politicians suffer from the same affliction!
unfortunatly there is no sensor or technology that can sugically identify and kill someone who has a bent to kill people!
it requires many boots on the ground and we were too afraid or too overconfident to put them there!
Your assertions about this being for Haliburton’s benefoit also do not hold much muster…
Why don’t you look up when and who gave Haliburton the contract to do what they do…You may be surprised at the answer!
You will find out it was Clinton who gave Haliburton a no bid contract to work in Bosnia because they were the only company who had the ability to do the work that was needed and that was extended to Iraq by Bush!
Clinton created the monopoly and Bush simply used it!
Personally I think all this anti-War rhetoric is nothing more than peoples desire to relive the 60′s!
unfortunatly the 60′s and Vietnam were totally different…our youth are not being drafted into a war they want no part of. Ask most units who have been in Iraq and they believe in the mission and feel they are doing good to protect their country!
the only solution presented by the liberals and anti war critics is to surrender faster!
This is not what we should be doing…
We have accomplished every goal we had going into this war…the mission WAS accomplished! the dems and many libs have simply added new goals which were never achievable!
People say we won the war and lost the peace but the truth is the peace could never be won by americans. It has to be won by the Iraqis!
It is theirs to win or lose!
So I would suggest that we simply fortify our position, Guard the government from attack until such time as they can guard themselves!
The only thing American troops need to do is ensure that democracy isn’t over thrown!
the insurgents may kill hundreds and thousands of Iraqis but it gets them no where if there are still elections and a sitting democracy!
That should be the goal here!
As for how this relates to hollywood it doesn’t but you keep insisting on spouting the liberal hollywood lines. Truth is hollywood isn’t made up of the smartest people in the world!
I mean lets face facts, as heated as our theocratic and religious debate got here, none of us were busy praying to the god Xenu!
Most of Hollywood does!
That should tell you how much sense they have over there!

To Mr. O’Leary
Almost forgot to ask, since we haven’t found any WMDs, is any other proof of my assertion required? Bushco said over and over again, “He’s got ‘em”. Well now Saddam is dead, and we still haven’t found ‘em. I don’t need further proof that Bushco was lying, the bottom line speaks for itself.
Also, from your vantage point in the US, it might seem to you that the rest of the world believed Bushco, but from my vantage point outside the US, I know differently. Governments were silent out of fear of offending Bushco, but the streets knew just the opposite.

To Terry Moran:
My last post was tough on Brian because I wanted him to feel a little of what he was doing to President Bush.
THE FOLLOWING IS RELATED TO HOLLYWOOD ONLY TO THE FACT THAT A LIBERAL SOCIETY SUCH AS THEY PROMOTE WILL NEGLECT DEALING WITH WHAT IS TRULY A TERRIBLE DILEMMA AND NOT ADMIT THE SEVERITY OF THE ISSUE OF ISLAMIC TERRORISM TO THE POINT THAT THIS WILL ESCALATE TO WHERE SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE MANY WILL LOOK BACK AT THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN THERE WERE FIELDS OF BATTLE CONFINED BY NATIONAL BORDERS.
I wrote of what amounts to a kill list for Fundamental Jihadists. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. It is surpassing Christianity. The last figure I saw was an estimate of about 1.3 billion. Of the 1.3 billion there are estimated to be about 250 million Fundamental Islamists committed to supporting Jihad. A holocaust of the Jews is their first priority. Iraq and Afghanistan are distractions from the execution of other acts of terror around the world.
Take Iraq and Afghanistan off the table and the terrorists will return to massive execution of terror acts around the world. The greatest dilemma faced regarding the war on terror is the difficulty to attach it to a nation. The Islamic Jihadism is peppered throughout the world in almost every nation. Right now we can be assured that there are sleeper terror cells throughout the United States awaiting the opportune time to strike. Communication procedures are in place or in the process for the coordination of strikes.
Jihadism is so cruel. I remember seeing pictures reading articles of what happened when Islamic extremists invaded Christian villages in Africa. The men were killed. The women and young girls were raped. Mothers who were breast feeding were subjected to having their breasts cut off. The only source of nourishment for suckling children was mother’s breast milk. The mother bore the torment of holding her child as it starved for lack of mother’s milk. I saw pictures of the mutilated women.
They can be just as cruel toward their own women and girls. Some sects enforce female castration. I can not imagine what mindless cruelty such as this does to young girls. This has even been practiced in the United States.
Hussein was a terrorist with unwavering ambitions to acquire WMDs. If I am correct in my memory he offered something like $25,000 to the family of a suicide bomber. I think the target was primarily Israel. I seem to also remember the shutting down a factory in Iraq by the U. S. Military that manufactured vest bombs. Forget about WMDs. The terrorists have become so efficient with suicide attacks that WMDs now are only an afterthought.

By the way, Mr Ebbarn, I own my own company, I am the boss. I am spending my time on the net because people like your good self are SOOO much fun to dialogue with, just the thing for when I feel a twinge of homesickness ;) peace

To Mr. Ebbarn
In answer to your question, I was raised a Protestant, but went neutral during the Vietnam conflict, when people much like yourself used religion as one of the pretexts for the mindless slaughter there, and to justify the effort to continue American apartheid. Since then, I have lived in several Islamic countries like Indonesia, the country with the worlds’ largest Muslim population, but I never converted to Islam.
The people there are very much like most Americans, trying to survive in the modern economic times. They accept me and treat my very well. Even though I am not a Muslim I am treated with respect that I never experienced in the US.
Your impressions of Islam are based on false propaganda, taught by those who know nothing about it, possibly the same ones who taught you Christianity.
No religion is evil, but some are misused for the sake of power, this makes the user evil, not the religion. Your view of Islam as an evil religion is exactly identical to those claiming Islam who would vilify Christianity in order to achieve their goals, so who is what, eh?

To Mr. Colin Cody
You obviously have never read the Koran, and I am not yet convinced that you understand what you have read in the Bible.
I have read both, and as I said, the texts only confirm each other. I have had no Islamic teachers, as it seems you assume, I, as I said am not Muslim. I base my opinions on what I have read in both of the holy texts, and through discussions and life experiences with normal-thinking people from both religious positions in countries around the world.
It is amazing how much more receptive to the teachimgs of Esa bin Yusuf most of the Muslim population is than many “Christians” are receptive to the confirmations of the Prophet Muhammad.
As far as truth, It is clear that you will not accept any truth other than interpretations that which you have been taught to be truth, so i guess further discussion there is a dead end.
The name for God depends upon the language of people who worship, the Christian Indonesians call God the Father of Yesu “Tuhan”, but since you name God according to your language, your words seem to infer that the Indonesians would be wrong, and therefore not true Christians. Again, read, and gain wisdom.
On a lighter note I wish that I were indeed, still young, but at 50+ years, I am thankful that the Creator has rescued me from the death trap that was Detroit in the “70s, and allowed me to see most of the world first hand, and not through the eyes of others with their various agendas. OK, back to heavy…
Battle Satan? rather, it seems more like you deem people whom you wish to conquer for whatever reason to be Satan, then you battle them. Again, it is not the Religion that is wrong, it is the people who would use religion as a tool of division.
In your reference to Jehovah, that is another name for God. I have even had Jehovah’s witnesses tell me that anyone not calling him by the name Jehovah is actually worshipping a false God, talk about division!
Islam calls upon Allah, the god of Ibrahim (Abraham), who sent word through the prophets from Adam through Musa (Moses), Sulaiman bin Daud (Solomon) and on down through Esa bin Yusuf (Jesus) to Muhammad. The word consisted of the charges and responsibilities given to Man, first inscribed as the Ten Commandments, refined through subsequent prophets, perfected in Esa bin Yusuf, and finally confirmed by Muhammad.
It is the disciples of the prophets who then began to corrupt the words of the prophets, this is why Moses wisely wrote at the end of Book 5 of the Torah (Deuteronomy) that it was forbidden to add or subtract one single word from the texts, and also why Muhammad forbade interpretation of his text. Read the text, not the interpretations, and gain wisdom.
You say; “but knowing how much those people love all kinds of controversy and particularly that which disrespects Christianity,” Sounds to me as if you actually presume to know the hearts and minds of all “those people” you call “Hollywood liberals”, you must be then the next Prophet. But then again you also disrespect the religious beliefs of others to the point of calling them hellish, so I don’t think you make the grade either. And whats up with the snow white hair, you have even seen the Face that Moses himself was not allowed to see? Whoa, you baaaddd dude…

Brian:
Proverbs teaches that even a fool appears wise when he is silent. If would be appropriate for you to follow such advice. I have met many men like you. You are nothing but yellow bellied cowards with big mouths. You are just talk. You stand for nothing of decency when all is told.
Again, you are invited to meet me at the DoJo to discuss issues. If you want to work your aggression out there is a girl there that I have full confidence in being able to put you on you hind end to stay.
As far as your being a Protestant, it was unquestionably in name only, not in the heart. The Bible warns of those who reject the Faith. YOU NEVER HAD FAITH, BUT ARE RATHER AN APOSTATE AND REPROBATE. The Apostle Peter warns you as follows in II Peter 2:22, “BUT IT IS HAPPENED UNTO THEM ACCORDING TO THE TRUE PROVERB, THE DOG IS TURNED TO HIS OWN VOMIT AGAIN; AND THE SOW THAT WAS WASHED TO HER WALLOWING IN THE MIRE.” (KING JAMES TRANSLATION) ALL YOU DID WHEN YOU REJECTED YOUR FAITH IS RETURN TO YOUR VOMIT.
There is a test for a Christian to determine if he or she is a true Christian. The Apostle John teaches in I John 3:14-15, “We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”
You have great pride in leaving Christianity. I assume you no longer congregate at a Christian church. That is solid evidence you do not want to be around them. You hate the people, you hate their precepts, you hate the fact they have love abiding in them, and you hate the teachings of the Christian Bible. That is clearly determined from the history of your postings.
The Christian Bible you rejected, ridicule, and so hate points out in Proverbs that A FOOL SUCH AS YOU LACKS UNDERSTANDING AND HATES WISDOM.
Recently I was asked to join a think tank of scholars dealing on just the issues we are writing about. At the present I do not have the time, but it would be refreshing to debate with men and women of intelligence rather than such a fool.
Brian, you say you have a lot of fun. Mockers have “fun”. You are a mocker.
SO WAS ISHMAEL OF ISAAC. HE WAS THE BASTARD SON OF ABRAHAM. THERE IS A LESSON HERE. THAT WHICH IS ILLEGITIMATE WILL MOCK THAT WHICH IS LEGITIMATE.
You have no restraints and think of causing chaos as fun. The writer of Hebrew in 12:7-8 teaches, “If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.” (King James Translation)
Regarding the conflict in Afghanistan and Iraq, there is absolutely nothing that could have prevented the conflict someplace. It is prophesized in the Christian Bible. The only thing that we can determine is where the conflict is. It is better there than here.
Brian,
You must really enjoy the death of the Kurds and the abuse of women and children. YOU SAY WRITING OF SUCH IS FUN. DOES THE RAPE OF LITTLE GIRLS GET YOU GOING? HOW ABOUT TURNING AROUND AND AFTER THEY ARE RAPED ACCUSING THEM OF FORNICATION AND HAVING THEM STONED TO DEATH. THIS NECROPHILIA STUFF MUST REALLY EXCITE YOU. IT IS REALLY FUN FOR YOU, ISN’T IT?
It must really upset you to think you would have your hind end kicked by a girl if you came to my DoJo. That would not be fun though. Just think of a “thing” you can rape, falsely accuse, and then murder while getting away scot free. That would really push your buttons, wouldn’t it?
Did you know Brian that I was teaching just what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan right now in the 70’s? I was. You know why. I understand at least some of the Holy Scriptures, and from your arguments you don’t have a clue and it is apparent you are nothing but an infidel.

Brian:
I have read the Koran. It is not long. I also have an undergraduate major in religion as well as my graduate work in theology. Also as a part of my graduate work I was trained in psychology. You are a nut case.
You talk only of the Koran. THAT SHOWS YOUR STUPIDITY. That is just a small portion of the authoritative writings in Islam. YOU DID NOT MENTION THAT. THE REASON IS YOU DID NOT KNOW THAT. YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. THAT MEANS YOU DON’T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING.
You did not mention the “Hadith”. You know why. It is because you are just down right stupid.
BRIAN, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE HADITH SAYS OF YOU? IT SAYS YOU HAVE “BAD BREATH”.

Mr Ebbarn
The Haddith is a set of interpretations written by people other than the Prophet, these people had an agenda to bring the Prophet’s writings in line with the politics of the day, Just as King James did with the Bible. This is common knowledge amongst Muslims. Again, read the Koran, not the interpretations, and gain wisdom.
If I am a nut case, at least I am harmless, I don’t advocate murder for religious, or political reasons, nor do I assume that my interpretations of any religious text should be imposed on others, or that they are somehow going to “burn in Hell” because they don’t agree with mine.
As for teaching, sounds like you are a modern day Nostradamus, seer of the future, abracadabra. It is not hard to extrapolate events based on current events, Orwell did it in the late ’30s, big deal. It is an easy guess that because of the radicals on both sides of the religious divide using religion to justify their own agendas, we will continue to do battle into the forseeable future
You write; “If the Imams and mosque leaders see they can wrench power from the people in a democracy and establish and enforce an Islamic theocracy, then they will attempt to do so”. Your condemnations about other religions and peoples, as well as your lamentation about “Hollywood liberals” indicates that you attempt exactly the same for your own brand of religion. Intolerance is intolerance, whether from a radical “Islamist” group, or from a radical “Christian” group, it is all the same thing.
You write “If the United States forces pull out with less than success, then there is a much larger and more tragic problem for the United States because we have lost control of the battlefield”
What is your definition of success, what is the goal, if not to kill all of the Muslims there, and impose a dictatorship where the people there cannot choose their own leadership because it may conflict with US corporate interests? Or your own religious intolerance? Is it a new slave state you wish to create, where the natural resources there are taken and sold by US big oil, just what are you wishing for as an outcome to the Bushco madness, and how is your “outcome” any different from exactl that which the radical “Muslim”, and indeed many other peoples of all religious stripe around the world accuse you and your ilk of?
You write ” This is not a war that can be won in a few years or even a few decades. It is likely we are looking at a century long war and burying our heads in the sand will not make it go away”. So now Mr. Bible-thumper-theologian-super “Christian” is willing to consign the world to perpetual death and destruction. Doesn’t sound quite like following the teachings of Christ to me.
“War is peace, Freedom is Slavery”
Straight from Orwell, and now add to that the words of Gekko, “Greed is Good”…

To Mr. Ebbarn
As for the dojo, Just more proof that when confronted with a contrary view that you have trouble dismissing, you resort to insults and violence.
Really intelligent of you…
As far as a girl being able to, as you say,” put you on you hind end to stay”, I wouldn’t doubt it, an untrained zealot with a gun can do the same, so this means absolutely zilch. During the opening ceremony of the SEA GAMES in Indonesia a few years back, we saw, on national TV, an 11 year-old girl breat a 1-inch steel I-beam with her bare hand. Your implied presumption that I would somehow be more ashamed if a girl does it simply brings to light another of your endearing qualities, sexism.

To Rebecca
Now you make a valid point, thank you very much. Now we need to somehow make even Wall Street realize that the drive for short-term gain at the expense of human misery is ultimately self defeating. Hollywood is somewhat there, but there are still quite a few unenlightened…

Well Brian,
I call you a liberal because you have yet to take any Democrat or liberal to task on their own corruption…
you show bias by only indicting Bush and attributing Haliburton to Bushco when it was Clintonco that gave them the contract!
I will support one statement you made about the INTERPRETATION of religion being politically based and not always in line with the intentions of the person these interpreters claim to follow!
But so far that is the only point I think we can agree on…
You claim that centrifuges have a dual purpose in both WMD and for medicine…
Pray tell why would you bury a centrifuge used for research in the sand? If it was used for a legal purpose there would be no need to hide it now would there!
If I told you that somewhere in the US there was a dollar bill on the street would that statement be un-true just because YOU couldn’t find it?
the problem was we gave Saddam all the time in the world to ship these materials out of the country! they went in the same convoys that took the high level Bathists into Syria!
If Saddam had nothing to hide he would have let the inspectors come right in…he didn’t!
and when they left he knew we were coming! so he shipped them off to his Syrian counterparts!
It may not have been a lot but it would have been enough to warrant the invasion!
the assumptions about a lack of evidence you made is no better than the assumptions the CIA made about him having the weapons. But at least the CIA had more info backing their theory than you do!
As for your assertion that Europe was silent well Lets take a look…
1 – “What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad’s regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs.” — Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002
2 – “Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production.” — Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998
You talk about the sufferring of the Iraqis well more Iraqis have been killed by Iraqis than coalition forces…
in either case your diatribe against Bush has little to do with hollywood. the religious conversation also went a bit off topic but it was in relation to why hollywood has gone liberal in the first place. And that has to do with the fact that some people with very strict and differing interpretations of their holy word are trying to legislate their interpretations into law.
this scares some poeple…
People who are scared tend to mass into a group they feel will protect them and provide safety in numbers!
If the liberals should ever run the country again you can bet that Hollywood will again become conservative!

To Mr. Colin Cody
Having read parts of anything does not give you all the information to comment on it, you preach hatred of those whose ways of life you don’t even take the time to understand. You also imply that God speaks only to you, and anyone else who might receive knowledge different from yours is wrong. Your contributions to this topic have degenerated to simple “hate-your-brother-because-his-God-is-different-from-my-God” speech, peppered with misquotes from your own relilious text.
You write “My theological education consists of a double major in religion from Baylor University and graduate study for several years at two theological seminaries, both Baptist.” They owe you a refund, if all you gained from them was a capacity to hate your fellow man on the basis of religion.
You write “Christ, however, taught and exemplified divine love as the core principle of his form of Judaism, i.e., Judaism raised to its highest expression.” Then, in the same post, “The Canaanite tribes were killed by the Hebrews on God’s orders because they had been worshipping Satanic idols and sacrificing their children to them for 400 years. Can anyone have the slightest doubt that they fully deserved everything that happened to them and much more?” You also wrote “If the Indonesians are speaking of the God whose character matches that of the biblical God of both Testaments, then they can call him whatever they want and worship him to their great benefit with the blessings of all Christians. The name itself is not what matters. The moral nature of one’s God is how he is defined and verified. That matters supremely” and next “Jehovah’s Witnesses are not Christians, so I debate them sometimes in hope of rescuing them from the hell Satan has planned for these poor, deceived souls” Your own contradictions…
To Mr. O’Leary
You write “there is no ruthless dictator who can turn to AQ and say by the way here is the recipie for Weaponized Anthrax or come to my country and I’ll lend you a centrifuge I have buried in the sand that no one knows about so you can make a terrorist weapon!”
Again, the assertion of a centrifuge comes from government-controlled news sources that has already lied, what’s one more lie, especially if it can try to validate the first one.
Your logic seems to be “kill ‘em before they do something bad to us.” By this logic, you might also say something like “kill all Black Americans, because there might be a bad guy amongst them, he hasn’t acted yet, but if he’s already dead, we won’t have to worry about him”.
I have a problen accepting your blanket logic, and I think you miss the point. Bushco doesn’t care about AQ any more than he cares about the poor in the US, this is an economic coup by his puppetmasters in the oil industry. American soldiers and many innocent Iraqi civilians are his victims. Halliburton is moving to Dubai, so they cannot be called to account for their part in this debacle. You and like minded individuals, by following the line and adding religious hatred to the mix help in the obfuscation of the real matter, which is we took military action based on a “clear and present danger” that was neither clear nor present, so now Bushco should be called upon to bear responsibility for the deaths, tortures and illegal imprisonment of all US soldiers, and Iraqi innocents. Hollywood has yet to use its powerful media presence to call for an accounting, and so still leans toward those people on the right, that espouse the same hatred you have shown over and over again in your posts.

To Mr. Ebbarn
Yes, like spreading hatred, advocating religious intolerance, even advocating war upon innocents because of their choice of religion and excusing mass murder because the murderer happens to be part of your chosen political party, did Christ teach you that also?

sorry about the double post…

Are you a prophet?

To Mr colin Cody
Are you confused?

Ok Brian, It’s obvious the only facts you WILL believe are those of Liberals and Democrats….
But you failed to talk on the subject I mentioned about the WMD being shipped to Syria!
The Chinese who were opposed to the war are the ones who said that…not the US, Not Bush not anyone you have cited as un trustworthy!
you said you do not live in the US…Which would explain why you don’t seem to care we got attacked!
Your not here to suffer from it!
I lost friends on 9/11 both in WTC and the Pentagon!
One was even on the plane that hit the pentagon!
It was the liberal Clinton administration that had a chance to hit back without needing a full invasion! He had the opportunity to assasinate OBL and didn’t do it because he couldn’t find a legal bearing for doing so! Doing that may not have stopped 9/11 but it would have gone a long way to showing the next guy that if you attack the US you might just wind up with a bullet in your head!
As for your assertion we are there for the oil I suggest you come to the states and go to the nearest Gas station….Oil has gone UP not down so your assertion that we went in for cheap oil just shows you don’t know a whole hell of a lot about what your saying!

To Mr. O’Leary
Remember the $25,000 toilet seats during the Vietnam conflict? That was Bechtel. Now we see Bechtel and Halliburton playing the same markup game with US taxpayer dollars in Iraq. This is even more lucrative than the actual oil trade itself, and the main reason Bushco started this mess. We must get out of this now, because the US economy cannot afford it.

To Colin:
What we have here in Brian is a boy who is a mocker after the nature of Ishmael. We also have a boy who hates the United States and its defined form of democracy. We have a boy who as a foreigner really does not have a word to say of the business of the United States. As a foreigner he apparently is jealous of the United States, its constitutional system, and its phenomenal growth to a $40,000,000,000,000 economy under the Bush administration. There are times this boy does not even know what presidential administration he is talking about.
This boy is also a counterfeit claiming knowledge and skills he does not have. He likes to copy cat similar to a counterfeit. He lacks the capacity of original technique.
The Islamic scripture in the Hadith teaches that this Brian boy has a very serious problem of “BAD BREATH”.
He seemed to insinuate (lie) that I was claiming to be a prophet. If he believed I was making this claim and had to ask he is incapable of deductive reasoning and does not understand the proof of a true prophet as defined in the Scriptures of the Christian Bible.
As a part of my profession as a licensed professional I am trained and experienced in dealing with evidentiary material. This boy lacks such skill therefore expounds his unfounded idiocy in his attempts to blog.
He seeks to by insinuation to slander such as he did with you when he posed the question as to whether you were confused. You are consistent. This boy rambles all over the place as an undisciplined juvenile does displaying a combination of confusion and a very apparent mental disorder. If you go to the dictionary and look up confused you will find “Brian”.
As an outsider he lacks understanding of American logic.
He claims to have at one time being associated with some sort of Protestant denomination.
There are two sets of scripture in the Christian Bible that deal with the two classifications he falls under, one or the other.
When I was drilling this mentally depraved boy related to the horrors that girls can fall into under Islamic cultures it did not bother him regarding the reality that a girl can be raped and then be charged with fornication to be later stoned. It did not both him that in Africa there are Islamic raids on Christian villages where the men are killed, the women and young girls raped, and the mothers with suckling children have their breasts cut of.
For certain he is a boy left to his own thoughts. For that reason he is incapable of reason.
First:
The writer of Hebrews in 6:4-6 teaches, “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (King James Translation)
It may be that he was ALMOST converted to Christianity but then rejected Christ. That would mean he never can be converted and his unavoidable eternal destiny is the Lake of Fire with Satan, his demons, and the false prophet as well as other males such as Hitler, Hussein, Stalin, Genghis Khan, etc. Because of this he seeks to set his self against our Lord God Jesus Christ incapable of understanding he is adding to his eternal torment.
Second:
Paul teaches in I Corinthians 5:3-5: “For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”
This would explain his callous character regarding atrocities against women and little girls. Their torture, rape, and murder in mass mean nothing to him. It means nothing that a multitude of them who were Kurds were gassed by Hussein.
Paul is instructing what is happening to a sexually depraved man in the Corinthian Church. He is a man turned over to his own thoughts incapable of reason apart from the black matter between his ears. He is saved but because of the nature of his sin he is devoid of reason to the day he dies. He will enter Heaven, but without riches.
Then there is another possibility. He is a Jihadist or Jihadist sympathizer seeking to use blogs and other internet communications to invoke confusion and impart false information to the citizenry of the United States as well as around the world.
While I am not Republican, I was infuriated when Saddam Hussein attempted to assassinate former president George Bush in Kuwait. Fortunately the plot was foiled. I have not problem regarding taking Saddam Hussein by military force on that basis alone. A can not see as a free society we can fail to deal with such actions severely.
I have been in the twin towers of what was the World Trade Center. What I saw on 9/11 depicted the very worse man is capable of. While Hussein was not directly involved in the attacked it is a certainty he was directly involved in terrorist activities as evidenced by the vest bomb factory discovered in Iraq by United States military. Hussein had an open reward of $25,000 reward to the Palestinian family of any suicide bomber who attacked in Israel including children.
Oh, yeah. This Brian boy has a thing about torturing and killing children

To Mr Ebbarn
Just more hate, assumptions and misinformation from someone using the alias “P Ray” to post more of this intolerant nonsense on Eddie Pinder”s topics for the Black community. Oh well, since you insist…
You write, “As a foreigner he apparently is jealous of the United States, its constitutional system, and its phenomenal growth to a $40,000,000,000,000 economy under the Bush administration. There are times this boy does not even know what presidential administration he is talking about.”
$40 trillion bucks? Get real. Check all of accepted economic statistics, the poverty “class has been driven even deeper into poverty, The “middle” class has seen their economic status decline for the past forty years under all presidents, both dem and rep, Social Security is bankrupt even before those who paid the most into it can enjoy the benefits, If the rich got richer by $40 trillion, it only serves to illustrate the magnitude of corruption in the US.
As for the “foreigner”, I do hold an american passport, I chose to follow the uttering you ultra righties love to use, I “got out of the kitchen”, but more and more you right wingers are spreading your “kitchen” ever farther. There comes a time where leaving is only allowing the proplem to grow, then comes the time to stand and resist. Your assumption is again an untruth, Mr. Bible thumper…
You wrote “It means nothing that a multitude of them who were Kurds were gassed by Hussein.” Who, you neglect to mention, got the gas from an American concern, exported with clearance from US customs, and during the time when he was still the American puppet. It seems by your hatred of all who don’t submit to your delusions of religion, that the gassing of kurds means even less to you, as you have no problem waging war on your “infidels”, it only concerns you if it can help you justify an illegal invasion by your “hero”.
As for the rest of your writings, simple name calling from someone who has lost the capacity for rational thought, and more misquotation and misuse of Biblical information to serve your own ends, hardly worth replying, except for, “I have been in the twin towers of what was the World Trade Center. What I saw on 9/11 depicted the very worse man is capable of”. Your capacity to invent untruths might lead one to doubt you actually were there, but if you were, it may have looked just like a little piece of Hiroshima, or of several placed in Baghdad, Vietnam, or Cambodia.
You wrote, ” While I am not Republican, I was infuriated when Saddam Hussein attempted to assassinate former president George Bush in Kuwait. Fortunately the plot was foiled. I have not problem regarding taking Saddam Hussein by military force on that basis alone.” Apparently, you were also not infuriated when Bushco Sr. tried to assassinate Saddam, Bushco Sr. bombed his entire country long before your incident. By your own warped cowboy code of ethics, Bushco “drew first”, then dared to show his face in the neighborhood, so for Saddam, it was self-defense. At any rate, Mr. “Super Christian” has no problem taking someone out, Hmm…
(Thou shalt not kill…not kill…not kill…)(to be sung to a hip-hop beat)… peace

To Mr Colin Cody, er, tierra, er…
You write “Feed big brother government enough money and he will do for us what we should and could but wont do ourselves–creatively help the poor and needy using our own private funds and sweat equity. “But why should we?”
Simple answer, because the government takes it’s money from the poor and middle classes in the form of taxes, fines, tolls, etc. the rich have all kinds of ways to avoid paying taxes, offshore accounts, unscrupulous accountants, moving to Dubai, etc. The treasury belongs to the poor and middle, they are the ones who pay into it. To take this money and give it to the already rich is basically redistribution of wealth upwards by unscrupulous means.
Why is Social Security bankrupt, just when the baby boomers who payed into it all of their working years are just reaching retirement age? Because corrupt administrations on both sides have allowed the supposedly untouchable money to be diverted into military overspending, now Bushco wants to raise the retirement age, instead of restoring the monies to their rightful place.
You write, “Furthermore, it has been clear to many of us for a long time that anyone who wants to actually work in the movie business rather than just talk about it has to swallow his convictions, if any, and go with the liberal flow. That means there may not be nearly as many liberals in Hollywood as one might think because the conservatives are in hiding, camouflaged as liberals in order to eat and sleep under a roof while acting, directing, script writing, etc.”
Now you’re making progress, but dont forget about Charlton Heston, poster boy of the NRA, who is not hiding, neither is Ahhnold, darling of big California business. Those neocons who feel they have to “camouflage” to get work probably don’t have effective agents, and they know their private views to be repugnant to most Americans, they would be justly chastised rather rapidly (Kramer, for example), and so wisely keep them to themselves, as they realize the futility and impropriety of trying to force their views upon others.

To Vidalia_Girl:
I agree with you, but I fear that the Brian Guy will hijack it again and get it off topic.
This supject was about Liberal Hollywood. It became about the Bush administration and Iraq.
Granted, I got sucked in also.

To Vidalia_Girl:
See what I mean. It would not surprise me if ABC News decides that there will be no choice but to discontinue this blog.

Brian, Brian Brian….
You really need to check your facts before you start spouting off and making up stuff!
First off there is no way to track nukes from space! If what you claimed was true there would not be a major problem about guarding our ports from a nuclear device being smuggled in through them as these satelites you claim can see all things would spot them as they approached the coast!
Second you ask why would syria take these weapons? Because they are Bathists just like the Saddam Regieme was! Syria opposed him in the first Gulf War but was also one of the allies in that coalition who didn’t want us to unseat him because he served as a buffer between Syria and the Iranians!
I guess you also forgot about the first Gulf War where Iraq shipped it’s air force into Iran (who they actually fought a war with!) to protect them…
the $25,000 toilet seat was done when there was a democrat in office…not a republican!
Your problem is you want to put all these decisions on Bush when he is just working with the system the Democrats and past presidents have left him!
As for the Domino theory well our deciding to take a stand had as much to do with stopping that as any enmity between the chinese and their neighbors!
And it wasn’t a factor in why we went, it only played a factor in why we didn’t get the job done…
Our soldiers won almost every battle they were in but we lost because we did not invade the north and take the battle to them! We let them choose the time and place of battle so they only lost the men they were prepared to lose. We should have invaded the north as early as 1964 which would have cut the length of the war in half!
But again you went onto Vietnam which was a democratic war not something that Bush did…
Again you say that the Oil companies are profiting from cheap oil…When was the last time you checked the price of a barrel of Crude?
It used to be $25 a barrel before the war started it has gone up to $60 a barrel (more than doubled!) so how can you say this was about cheaper oil when it is now twice as expensive? The only role the Oil will play is that it can serve the new Iraqi government to rebuild itself.
You really ought to check your facts because with all the contradiction to facts you are starting to sound desperate to pin something on Bush and since you can’t find much on him you keep blaiming him for things he had nothing to do with….
Your like every other liberal hack job, just throw as much shiut at Bush as you can and hope something sticks!
I have relatives in the Military too!
They are proud to be battling the terrorists so that we don’t have to do it here at home!
And they do seem to be doing a very good job of it!
Since 9/11 not one attack has been made on the US!
So even if you believe that Iraq had nothing to do with the war on terror or terrorist attacks you have to admit it sure has been a very good solution as they are so busy trying to save Iraq from western dominance that they are too busy to try and destroy the west itself!
Now if your done with your liberal quota of bushMuck throwing on ABC blogs, lets get back to the topic of Liberal hollywood….
It is my assertion that Hollywood is leaning liberal because they have identified the conservatives as an enemy that is trying to limit their ability to earn!
Much the same reasons why Big business has always supported the republican party! they supported it because the party has always been about LESS government interventions in our private lives and business.
Conservatives still feel this way about business with the exception of a few such as media and TV…
When attacked people tend to huddle together to the group they feel will protect them, In this case Hollywoord has run to the liberals!
The religionists have run to the conservatives. And that group has taken over and turned our LESS GOVERNMENT ideology into a moralistic one!
While I don’t consider that to be a threat to the country or the party I do feel that a seperation of Church and state is important to ensuring american ideals and freedom to choose and practice whatever religion you see fit!
This is a country whose greatness stems from the individual liberties to think and innovate without pressure to conform.
Being a good christian may have many definitions depending on who you ask.
But being a good american has just one…
to be a good american you must live in harmony and respect for your neighbor and not infringe on their rights. It is not our place to judge or criticize how someone else lives their life unless how they live that life directly affects your ability to live your life how you see fit!
you can be a good american and a bad christian and a good Christian and a bad american!
They are not mutually dependent on each other!
If we want hollywood to make good movies then don’t go see bad ones! That is the free market at work!
If you don’t like a particular radio show turn it off! If enough people do that the shows will be socially acceptable! Because that is what the market will have asked for!
there is nothing wrong with promoting conservative ideals and promoting liberal ideas are not EVIL either…
Let the intelligent decide which is the best way to go. thier own spirituality can be used as a litmus test but that litmus test should onl;y apply to them! I should be able to use my own spiritual litmus as to what is acceptable and what is not for me!
I don’t blame conservatives for the current polarization of this country I feel it is a whiplash reaction to the liberal attempts to polarize this nation….
As a conservative I say let the crazies be crazy, We should remain calm and true to our core principles of less government interference in people’s lives…
If two homosexuals want to get married let them! As long as they keep their relationship in their own house away from mine I can’t in good concience as an american try to stop them!
No more so than they should have a right to stop me from going to church or believe what they are doing is wrong in the eyes of god!
I’ll respect their point of view as long as they respect mine!
Some people like the color Blue and others like the color red. I should not deny someone their right to their own personal tastes.
I believe the central tenets of christianity’s message is to live and let live. Be good to all people, like them or not, Respect their right to live as you would want them to return that respect to you.
And if you treat others as you yourself would be treated then you will find the path that God has put before us to lead us into his kingdom.
Our salvation is not based on how many otherswe convince to get on the path. It is based on how well we walk the path ourselves!

Mike:
I didn’t catch something in your last paragraph of you post.
You said, “Our salvation is not based on how many others we convince to get on the path. It is based on how well we walk the path ourselves!”
That is in a sense true but it would be a life devoid of love. If I have love how can I not seek to convince others off the destructive path? If I have not love then on what basis is my salvation?
How can I trust my salvation is true if my lack of action caused the worst catastrophe beyond imagination for someone else?
Love is the most important evidence of salvation. A whole chapter is devoted to it in I Corinthians 13. It starts in teaching that without love what we say is nothing but a “sounding brass and tinkling cymbal”. Our words are nothing but noise.

From Colin Cody…
A correction to my last post.
I was unclear in my depiction of our situation at the time we as youngsters actually understand the difference between virtue and evil. We all have free choice of either of the two ultimate life principle as our own at that time. So we are not automatically excluded from the family of God at the point of accountability because some, like Ruth Graham, Billy Graham’s wife for one (and who knows how many thousands of others), responding to their intuitive awareness and whatever accurate teaching they’ve experienced, choose at that time to live by divine love. Calvin’s theory that we are born sinners and are, therefore, unable to do otherwise from childhood is unsupported by an accurate, intelligent interpretation of any part of Scripture. This evil concept of original sin combined with Calvin’s hellish determinism has probably kept more thoughtful people from coming to Christ than anything else Satan has ever devised.

EB – It is my assertion that EXTREMEISM is the true Evil…There are many Liberal ideals that are good! Civil Rights for people of Color is one example of Liberalism getting it right! And I am very liberal in regards to securing the right to expression of thought as well. Unfortunatly some EXTREMIST liberals have abandoned their own principles in this regard, just as I feel some extremist conservatives have in regards to less government.
Now you have Liberals who say if you are for the war your bad, Look at Lieberman and what was done to him! Thankfully cooler heads prevailed in that state and he won anyway!
RE: Salvation – There are many ways to show love to a non-christian without having to convert them to christianity and having them get baptized… The love is in how you treat them and by example SHOW THEM the path to being a good person in god’s Eyes!
I do believe that God wants us to be good people but I also believe that he is not going to limit who gets into heaven based on what rituals they practice in life or some belief in him. Hebrews were around for a few thousand years before Jesus came to this world and I can’t buy into the concept that none of them made it into heaven before Christ came around! Which means it isn’t just about what religion you practice but how you live that determines your spiritual fate!
You say how can you trust your salvation if by lack of action someone else suffers catastrophe…Well you are not supposed to trust your salvation, you are supposed to trust god that his will shall be done and that if someone suffers catastrophe it is for a pretty good reason!
Now that doesn’t mean you should not try and help them but your salvation is not dependent on being successful!
IT is no different than helping someone to walk across the street. It is noble to help them, but if they don’t want your help you should not try and force them to take it!
I believe Jesus wanted us to LOVE someone by being Good christians towards them.
And by that love they might see and WILLINGLY adopt christian Ideals and live by them.
You say there is a mandate to take Christianity to the community, the Nation and the World…I would love to see the scripture that says this…
Jesus did not try and get the Romans to follow chistianity, Jesus didn’t urge the apostles to go get the Romans to follow christian doctrine. Jesus was not concerned with the secular issues of this earth! He was only interested in the spiritual kingdom. He did not gather people around and force them to listen or foloow what he preached. HE simply preached and those who were interested or believed in his wisdom followed it.
So I believe your statement is false. What you must do as far as your religion is concerned with the government is to ensure that you have the freedom to practice and believe in it without government interference!
I have no problems with you preaching it to the community as that is the proper venue! But Congress should not be charged with promoting one religion over the other. Because at some point in time another religion may get into power and I would not want to be forced to live by another religion’s standards because of it…
RE: Homosexuals – You gave the extreme examples of bad behavior for anyone not just a homosexual…there are straight men who grope women all the time too! Make lurid advances to women who want no part of those advances…
You can’t punish or group the entire population based on the bad actions of a few…
Christians believe in Monogamy! does not the idea that Homosexuals getting married promote monogamy? If they are Married then they won’t be in bathrooms trying to grope someone…Won’t be hitting on strangers!
Truth is if they didn’t have to hide their homosexuality they would be able to satisfy their urges with people that share them!
It is fine to care about them but that care does not give you the right to tell them what to do!
No more than they can say we care about you you must try homosexuality!
Mutual respect…that is the key here! you can love them and think they are wrong hell you can even say they are evil if you like to use extreme words….but you have to respect their rights and let them choose their own path. Just as you were allowed to choose yours!
What they do only has a bearing on their salvation, not yours! And Jesus never once said you had to spread Christianity via the gun or use of force!
And that is exactly what legislation is…a LAW! a rule to FORCE certain behavior!
IT’s a slippery slope right there. If you set the precedent of one religion forcing it’s views on another group it can also work to force those views on it at some point when the balance of power changes!
Brian – again you just do not know what the hell you are talking about….
The Russian Poisoning case they found traces of Radiation! They had to go to those places and be within inches of the radiation to pick it up! you can’t do it via satellite! Your just showing how gullible you are to the liberal clap trap rantings that you will believe anything! Radiation is undetectable as the radiation given off does not travel very far it disperses as heat into the atmosphere almost immediatly! this is why Nuclear plants put fuel rods into water so the water captures this heat to be used to make steam and run turbines! So get your facts straight before you go about ranting about things you seem to know nothing about!
RE: the Oil – you obviously missed your economics class when you were young…Prices are set based on Supply and Demand! Prices are high because there is LESS oil to be had not because there is more!
the truth of the price of Crude has to do with the fact that Saddam is no longer giving huge amounts of it out as bribes to continue his palace and war machine building! Now it goes for MArket rate and the market says this is what it REALLY costs!
If we were concerned with cheaper oil we would have left Saddam in power and just taken advantage of his attempts to bypass sanctions by selling his oil at cost!
RE:- Syria – you ask why would they give the materials back? Why would they have to? Saddam didn’t need that equipment you can buy it almost anywhere! What he wanted was a way to get it out of Iraq so he could try and survive the invasion, embarass the US and then try to get back into power after we left! Once you KNOW what you need to know to make them the equipment and any materials you have are irrelevent! What Saddam needed at that point in time was money because he knew he was not going to be able to rob a bank once the US took over the country! So knowing he couldn’t use his WMD he shipped them off to Syria for Cash in the hopes that some day he would come back to power and rebuild with the knowledge he had from before!
there is now a new government and one that even if they had chemical weapons are not likely to use them against anyone! even the knowledge of how to make them is most likely lost so we removed the threat!
We may not be able to say for certain if Iraq had a Nuclear program before we invaded…there is no doubt now though that there is no Nuclear program there!
Finding and destroying weapons is not a disarmament solution…you and the Libs have to learn that! Getting rid of those who want them because they think they might use them is the surest way of disarming a country!
We did that in Iraq!
What records still exist on how to make WMD is unknown…they may be in syria right now! But Syria has not shown a desire to use those weapons! at least you know the Iraqis won’t be making them and even if they were the government is not likely to use them even if they did have them!
RE:Illegal Wiretapping – As I said before Brian…Some Conservatives have abondoned their principles in regards to the central tenets of conservative ideals that the government should be less intrusive in our lives!
you finish by saying you oppose HATE speech…but you say this after a hate filled speech against Bush…
So how dedicated are you to your own stated ideals?

To Mike:
You said:
“RE: Salvation – There are many ways to show love to a non-christian (Christian) without having to convert them to christianity (Christianity) and having them get baptized… The love is in how you treat them and by example. SHOW THEM the path to being a good person in god’s (God’s) Eyes (eyes)!”
I totally agree with you Mike. I can not convert anyone to Christianity nor can any other man on this earth. THAT IS CHRIST’S AREA OF AUTHORITY. NO ON ENTERS HEAVEN EXCEPT BY HIS PERSONAL WORK. OTHER THAN BY CHRIST LEADS TO TOTAL ETERNAL TORMENT. Their being baptized means nothing if the only reason is to join a church organization. They just get wet. By example is the best mode because if our actions don’t meet our words, then we can not expect an unsaved person to take us seriously.
THERE IS A FAILED SYSTEM OF CHRISTIAN WITNESS. IT WAS CALLED “LIFE STYLE EVANGELISM”. We just live the Christian lifestyle and it would be such that men and women would be so attacked by our lives that they would desire what we have and they ask Christ to be converted. The problem is that Christians are saved sinners. We still sin. Also witnessing can be likened to salesmanship. A lot of business is lost because we simply don’t ask for the business. A lot of sinners go to eternal torment simple because we don’t ask if they would like to become a Christian.
Now the question is posed: Do I love a person if I do not live the Christian life in front of them and as opportunity presents itself witness to them regarding Christ? I can hardly see how.
Do I love them if my neglect or closed mind results in a greater possibility that they will not accept the Lord God Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord to experience eternal blessing beyond anything any person can imagine, but rather as a result they choose the “broad way” that eventually leads the person to eternal torment beyond imagination? I can hardly see how.
Christ must convert and must save. He is perfect.
I would shudder to think of the person I could convert and save. I as all men and women other than Christ are imperfect.
The worst cases are where atrocities have been committed in the name of “Christianity”. Such is not Christian and Christ has no part of such. It is the work of evil men and women who are guided by Satan and his demons. Christ is incapable of evil.
Here is a good scripture a person might find beneficial: In II Corinthians 11:12-15 the Apostle Paul teaches; “And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. AND NO WONDER, FOR SATAN HIMSELF MASQUERADES AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. IT IS NOT SURPRISING, THEN, IF HIS SERVANTS MASQUERADE AS SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. THEIR END WILL BE WHAT THEIR ACTIONS DESERVE.” (New International Translation)

To Mr O’Leary,
You wrote, “RE: the Oil – you obviously missed your economics class when you were young…Prices are set based on Supply and Demand! Prices are high because there is LESS oil to be had not because there is more”
Your economics teacher obviously did not take into consideration that monopolistic behavior such as that of cartels, influences the supply of oil, and without alternatives, the oil refineries determine the price. oil is being extracted at faster rates than ever before there has never been more oil available, but the price is as high, if not higher than ever, so much for supply and demand…
You wrote, “We may not be able to say for certain if Iraq had a Nuclear program before we invaded…there is no doubt now though that there is no Nuclear program there!”
So following this logic, the next time some Bush-like idiot tells you about another non-existant threat, you would condone going to kill all he points to, then after you discover you have been lied to, you say “well, at least now there is no threat there”…wow.
By the way, we can indeed say for certain that there was no nuclear program in Iraq before, this is one of the Bushco lies that he, and you have trouble explaining away, so now, after the fact, you shift to other, equally dubious reasoning that was not even part of the original call to arms.
Bottom line, Bushco said there were nukes and biochems in Iraq, he said he had proof, Colin Powell went before the UN with his pictures, all the right-wingers who love war, and the left-wingers, afraid to oppose Bushco, ’cause it might mean the end of their chance to grab some of the fruits of the corruption, decided for our sons and daughters to be put into harm’s way for these reasons.
Bushco lied. Innocent people died.
No scripture, none of Mr. ebbarn’s fascist ideology mixed with perversions of biblical information or any of your twisted history will bring them back to life.
But I guess its’ all good, none of them were your people anyway…

Briany boy:
Again I ask you why you do not defend Israel as a result of the fact that Hussein had a $25,000 reward to the family of any suicide bomber that attacked Israelis? Also you have never condemned the actions of the religious sect in Africa that murders, rapes, and mutilates Christian women and girls? Is it because you hate Christians so much?
Pervert. You are sick.

To the Omniscient Almighty Brian;
Christ teaches, in John 14:6, “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
Is Christ a liar and a false prophet?
If you have any brass you will answer?
You seem to indicate that all other religions warrant equal treatment as Christianity?
What you are saying is there are many ways to Heaven then. Am I right or not?
If you don’t believe that then why are you making representation that these other religions deserve equal consideration?
If you believe that these other religions are on the same level as Christianity, then you are saying that Christ is a liar. Is that correct? You have to consider these other religions teachings of Heaven. Christ says He is the only Way. Is what you are saying is that Christ is a liar?
Now if you consider these other religions on the same level as Christianity, then the only viable conclusion is that you are saying these other religions offer a way to Heaven. Christ is a liar.
If all these other religions offer a way to Heaven then they are in better standing than Christianity because Christianity’s foundation is the teachings of Christ and Christ is a liar. Is that correct?
Therefore, these other religions other than Christianity are the only true religion and Christianity is a farce. Is that correct?
Therefore, what you are saying is that the only way is many ways.
Now you explain to me how that makes sense. It does not make sense because it is an impossibility. The only way can not be many ways.
If that be the case then that makes Christ’s claim as being the only Way true and the other religions as false not worthy of consideration or are you going to go back to saying that Christ is a liar because He claims to be the only Way.

To Mr Ebbarn
C’mon, Mr ebbarn, time for some new fascist/neonazi utterings, you’re beginning to repeat the same tired old lies again, got anything original?

Brian – LOL Busco lied, people died…Yet we have already showed that the liberals lied about this long before Bush! It was their rhetoric just retold!
Which liberal blogosphere did you get your rally cry from…
Try this one
“Clinton slacked while AQ attacked!”
“Clinton got some head, while americans were left for dead!
I guess that because all your facts got chewed up and disproved that we have moved onto the lets chant so we don’t have to hear the truth portion of this show!
For your information Brian Oil has gone up because China and India are all industrializing at a rapid pace and buying up more oil than can be produced!
They were doing this before we invaded but the disruption of the Iraqi oil flow caused a quick inflation of the prices. You seem to think that the extraction proccess is a fixed cost but you forget about the cost to ship and distribute the oil taken. More tankers need to be created and with all the regulations imposed by the liberals in regards to oil spill safety that is an expensive proposition! If we REALLY wanted cheap oil we would tap into the vast reserves inside america not spend billions on a war in a foreigh land which offsets any price savings you think might come from the control of Iraqi oil!
And you forget that we don’t control their oil either!
Again you are the one lying here because all the facts you have used to make your argument have been proven wrong….Kind of the same thing you accuse Bush of as if he was the ONLY one who said Saddam had WMD…That rumor was started by the democrats not Bush!
EB – RE Salvation and conversion…
I agree with you on the basis of you must try but you must try on an individual level not a legislative one!
It’s fine to talk to your neighbor and try to tell him about the gifts he will recieve by being a good christian, but it is not right to go to congress and say we need to enforce these people to be good christians so pass laws that will compell them to be such!
It would be a false conversion if that was the case. They wouldn’t be converting or living christian ideals because they believe in Jesus or the teachings they would be doing it to stay out of Jail which has nothing to do with the spirit and everything to do with the body which in christianity are two seperate entities…
If we all act as proper americans and have an honest discussion of the issue then that would be fine.
A christian would talk to a Homosexual and have an intelligent conversation about why the homosexual should abandon his lifestyle and embrace christianity. THEN if they agree you have truly saved a soul…
But if you simply enact secular rules that attempt to forment compliance with God’s wishes you may have a better society but you have not saved a single soul as they are not following the tenets of scripture due to a love and faith in god…they are doing it because they were simply compelled not convinced!
Now think of that and the previous statements that you and colin have made in regards to actions in and of themselves will not ensure salvation. There has to be a spiritual committment behind the actions!
And by legislating it you are not going to get that spiritual committment!
The idea is not to simply make people ACT like christians you should want them to truly see the light of christianity!
And that can not be done via force nor legislation with is really nothing more than a soft power instance of force!
Maybe now you see where I am coming from in regards to the concept that religion must be brought to the nation…IT should be but brought to the nation by the masses in that nation not via an act of congress!
This is the problem I have with the current evangelical political movement that has taken over the conservative party.
Passing legislation that denies homosexuals the right to marry is not going to turn them into good christians. Some may want to get married so they can be with the one they love and dedicate their life to them. This is in line with the teachings of Christ with the exception of the person they chose to love is the same sex as them!
But other than that they may well be totally dedicated and have the spiritual awakening needed to be saved in God’s eyes.
If we take such people into our bussom and kindly say you know the only problem you may have in your redemption is that God wants us to have sex only when procreation is involved, Or better that God frowns on the wasting of potential life which is spilled in your homosexual act as it does not promote and celebrate the creation of god’s greatest gift of life…
You might get further along in converting and saving these souls!
And if you can’t do that then you sure as hell are not going to convert them to christianity by denying them a civil ceremony of professed love and commitment.
I think a Homosexual who wants to get married to their lover is probably further along on living christian ideals than any straight couple who live in sin and don’t commit to each other.
So to EB and Colin – I think we are getting closer to agreement on the issues, Where we differ is in the method of implementation. I do not believe Law or Force can sway people. Respect and kindness is a much better sales tactic! We should not politicize our religion. We should not taint it with secular mechanisms. Because god will not save us based on how many people we get to go to church or not break his commandments…
He will rewards us with his gifts based on how many people we get to ACTUALLY BELIEVE in him because our actions showed them the light!

To Mr. O’Leary
You seem to be at least a little bit less intolerant than Mr Ebbarn and Mr. Cody, there is still some hope for you…
Mr. Clinton was just as corrupt as Mr. Bush, this is the part of government corruption that I refer to as the greatest danger to the US. But it was the order of Mr. Bush, based on lies proffered by his lackeys, that sent people to die in Iraq.
Again you seem to discard the information that the alleged hijackers of 911 were not Iraqis or Afghanis, but from Saudi Arabia. The claims of WMDs has been shown to be nothing more than a pack of lies, hence the phrase “Bush lied, people died.”
You confuse truth with belief, that is the beginning of delusion…

Brian:
You wrote:
“As I posted on another site,the religious pimps of Islam, and the religious pimps of Christianity need the conflict as a means to solicit money from gullible followers. The religious pimps in Islam take hate speech from religious pimps of Christianity like you, and show it as proof of Christian hostility. You are, in fact, one of radicalism’s best friends…”
Where is you empirical evidence that the Christian community needs this conflict to solicit money?
Where is you empirical evidence that the Islamic community needs this conflict to solicit money?
Quote my so-called hate speech. Please give day and time. Please give context.
Give a reason as to why I am “one of radicalism’s best friends”. All you have is what I wrote to come to this conclusion. Please give day and time. Please give context.
What I am saying is give evidence, not continued senseless rambling.

Oh Briany Boy:
I just got a question in my mind. This is related to your last post.
Do you agree that Muslims should murder Muslims or do you disagree that Muslims should murder Muslims?

EB – Lets set the record straight here…I myself believe you and Colin agree to some extent on the need to seperate church and state. But you also must admit that there are MANY in the conservative party who do not believe that. And it is those people who hold a major control of the conservatives and scare people into the arms of the liberals because they feel at least with them they will be somewhat protected from the religionist legislation that some (a few, powerfully connected few even) are trying to get pushed into laws.
This is very much like the Islamic fundamentalists in that it is a very small but vocal percentage that is trying to make their ideology the law of the land.
I don’t believe christianity and Islam are all that different or different enough that a conflict between the two believers is warranted.
a Little history that I touched on before…
The Christian atrocities such as the Crusades was because at the time there was lawlessness in europe. the demise of the central control of the Romans led to many feudal and almost gansterish thugs killing and pillaging the innocent people around them because there was no central authority to protect them.
The priests and bishops at the time decided they needed to try and restore some order to the land and stop the killings. So they found someone else that these knights could dispense their violent tendencies on.
They sent them to Jerusalem!
And there is the one thing that has led Muslims and christians to think they are enemies! Other than that they have more in common than they have in conflict!
The whole thing was claimed to be in the name of God but it was really in the name of POWER!
God has all the power he needs he does not need us to get more for him.
The desire for POWER was MAN MADE by the men who were supposed to be spreading Gods word as opposed to his will. The crusades were about gaining more power and more people to control while trying to keep the people they already controlled alive!
This is what I was alluding to when I said that the interpretation of the scripture is only as good as the man who is doing the interpreting!
I agree with you and Colin that your actions alone do not make salvation but your beliefs that lead to bad actions do! I believe every bishop who sent knights to Jerusalem to break the 6th commandment in Gods name went straight to hell! Because a belief is not all that is required it is belief in the CORRENT MESSAGE that God intended that is more important!
Now the shoe is on the other foot.
there are a small group of Muslims playing their religion for a power play. they too want more power and control of more people and they spout and mis-interpret their scripture to justify breaking the commandments they were given.
As was stated there are many muslims who think these fanatics are wrong. But you ask them and publicly they will say they support or sympathize with them because they (like hollywood) feel these people are most likely to protect them from the fanatics of the other side!
Take Iraq as a prime example…Most Shites don’t like the Mahdi Army but because they are the ones most likely to protect them from Sunni terror they embrace them…
It is for the same reasons Hollywood has run into the arms of the liberals here!
Brian – you say there is government wide corruption yet blame Bush for everything!
This says to me you don’t really care about the others corruption and only want to focus on Bush!
Truth is there is a lot more corruption in the rest of the world than there is in the US govt.
Note: France was practically in Saddam’s Pocket and had a dozen people getting cheap oil vouchers from Saddam, Russia as well!
the UN was rife with people on the take and why they opposed the US going into Iraq at all…didn’t want the money they were getting to stop flowing!
Maybe if there was less corruption in the rest of the world and less people willing to take bribes from ruthless dictators so that they could protect his ass from inspections and international law…
We would not have had to go into Iraq at all!
You see we did everything possible to avoid going to war there.
We gave him ample warning…
We gave him a chance to fess up to the inspectors and give up whatever he had without playing silly hide and seek games and delaying the inspections…
We even gave him a chance at asylum where he could live with whatever money he had already stolen but he had to get out of the country and relinquish power…
Sanctions would have worked if the corrupt european and United Nation entities had not worked against them!
It was their corruption that forced Bush’s hand in this regard!
As for your assertion that Afghans had nothing to do with the terrorists well that is just so rediculous….
they were training there and they were told to get rid of them and give them up…they wouldn’t so we made them give up much more than a few arabs who they were hiding!

To Eebarn and Mike from Colin…
Surely you know by now that Brian is fully aware that everything he says is ludicrous twaddle. He doesn’t care whether what he says is true or not. His only purpose is to get a rise out of you so he can feel a little less miniscule in value. By reading his blogs and responding to him you are merely feeding his twisted, psychotic ego. You can’t enlighten him because he has no concern for the truth whatsoever. Ignore him and he will eventually have to go away. Then we could all get down to an intelligent, beneficial conversation among respectful, mature and genuinely thoughtful people. Wouldn’t that be a better way to spend our limited time and energies? It should be abundantly clear from all that’s gone before that argueing anything with a duplicitous fool is an endless exercise in frustration and therefore is itself supreme foolishness.

Brian if he didn’t have any why did he stop inspectors from going anywhere they wanted? To pretend he had some? Your an idiot and since you aren’t in this country I can only assume you only have a Maddrassa Equivilency diploma!
Colin – you are of course correct about Brian but then again my replies to him are more for the others who may read his clap trap than for Brian himself! He isn’t even an american which means he does not want to even exist unless the pitiful country he lives in gets invaded and his army of deserters runs off leaving him without even the opportunity to spread more tripe!
EB – I am not trying to say that Christians are boogeymen at all…
But I do believe Religion is a personal existence not best ruled under a group mentality because people tend to do things in a group they would never do or try all by themselves…
Religion to me is a deeply personal matter and I practice Christianity as I have interpreted the bible for myself! Not how my neighbor may interpret it or how some priest may have interpreted it. It is a deeply personal relationship I have with god and I may be wrong or right in that interpretation but that is what I will take with me when I die.
If I was alive during the crusades I would have been killed for not following the central church and fighting for what they claimed was Gods Will…
Now not all Christians want to legislate religion I never suggested that all were…you and Colin both seem to be reasonable and ritcheous in this regard but there are many who are not! Maybe not the Majority but there is a group who seem to feed each other’s desire to make religion into law…
RE: Homosexual Marriage – Take for example the attempt to make a constitutional ban on Gay Marriage…
Was that really needed? Is Gay Marriage going to be the end of the world as we know it?
And I understand that the majority of people oppose it…My Question is as an american WHY should anyone have a say on such a personal matter?
Does that Marriage hurt the church, Hurt heterosexual couples or infringe on any of our rights to practice catholicism?
It doesn’t!!!
My philosophy in this whole thing is isn’t it better to pick your shots as to what is limited than to simply try to snuff out every right they want with a blanket denial?
Lets fight what REALLY worries us about homosexuals such as allowing them to mentor and guardian our kids…
Married homosexuals pose little threat or in now way impact our spiritual or even secular lives!
they get to share health benefits and live together, they don’t have to share OUR benefits or live in OUR house…
As you pointed out, Marriage is a secular partnership that goes beyond the simple act of religious union.
therefore it makes sense to me that we should let them get married if they really want to as it is a secular union they are seeking. No church (well few anyway) will marry them so religion is not impacted.
I have a real problem with saying well we are in the majority so what we want goes…
Cause I know one day we may not be in the Majority…and what will they force us to do if that day should ever come!
I want to stay a christian and I want to continue to practice my religion.
I sure wouldn’t want to have to read the Koran 4 times a day or have to face mecca 3 times a day simply because Muslims were the Majority and played our majority rules game of religion back at us!

To Mr. O’Leary
You ask,”Brian if he didn’t have any why did he stop inspectors from going anywhere they wanted? To pretend he had some?”
Answered in order of importance;
1. As you can see by the current state of anarchy, Saddam knew well that if it were known by his foes inside Iraq that he was basically defenseless, the country would become what the US has made it, lawless. He maintained a bluff as long as he could, because he knew his people, he knew that his reputation for ruthlessness was the only thing keeping Iraq in order. To reestablish order, whoever gets the chair will have to be even more ruthless and sadistic than Saddam was.
2.Because the Inspectors, having searched for more than two years, anywhere they wanted, without finding any, (google Hans Blix) began, at the bidding of Bushco, to make ridiculous requests to search his homes and places where such WMD’s couldn’t possibly exist, this had moved into the realm of insult, Bushco wanted to “punk” him. I don’t think you would like this if anyone did it to you…

Brian -= your excuses for delaying the inspectors don’t hold muster because he lost control of his country anyway! He was strong enough in conventional arms to hold off any of his neighbors and revoloutionary groups in his country! He KNEW there was no way he could defeat us though.
He was hiding as much as he could (mostly paperwork which could easily be kept in palaces!) to retain the recipie in hopes that when the inspections and sanctions ended he could go back to building these WMDs.
By removing him therecipie is useless since there is no longer a person in power who is willing to use it!
The threat to the US by Saddam and Iraq was not the use of weapons he had but in the knowledge he might pass onto AQ to build their own WMD…
He was actively supporting terrorists by paying the families of suicide bombers, Had a hijacking training camp made of a grounded 747 used to train terrorists in the art of hijacking, Was harboring the guy who masterminded and killed an american in the Aquille Lauro hijacking, and allowed Zaqawi to run a small terrorist camp on the Iranian border!
So don’t tell me Iraq had NOTHING to do with the war on terror and even if he didn’t have a WMD ready to set off he had the recipie which is much more dangerous should it ever get into the wrong hands!
I know everything I need to know about Islam Brian!
I know that right now you are just now catching up to where the church was in the middle ages. Trying to control the masses and mis-interpreting the Koran to try and justify it! I also know that muslims are sufferring because of a few but their own inaction and lack of outrage over those who would try to hijack their religion as a tool of war and power has made them into targets!
We hear all the time you can’t do this or the Arab street will rise up yet it never does rise and even when it does it is never consistent in it’s bitching!
They protest when the US drops a bomb on insurgents who hide among innocents and we kill 10 or 11 innocent people yet not a peep when a muslim lights off one of his clorine bombs or suicide trucks that kill 50-60 people!
you complain about Danish Cartoons yet run vicious cartoons about Jews and Moses eating babies!
you cry about western oppression against Muslims yet never a peer about Oppression BY muslims against other muslims!
you cry to TV media about your babies being killed so much so that you run a little ambulance merry go round in Lebanon to show the same baby 10 times yet if the babies do manage to live you sit them in an exploding car so you can get past a check point to blow up someone you don’t like!
There is only one truth spoken by the terrorists…This sure is a holy war!
But it is not against christians and Jews it is purely between muslims!
Shia fighting Sunni Wahabbists, All in the name of Power!
Your holy war has killed more Muslims than any other religious group!
possibly because of the thought process that you don’t have to know how to read which is why most muslims have to learn the Koran by heart! It is the only information they are given their entire lives!
Instead of complaining about what the US did to some ruthless dictator maybe you should look at what he has done to the oppressed muslims of Iraq!
They are now free to choose their government and destiny and what did they choose with thewir new found freedom?
Hey Lets kill each other!
If you really believe in the teachings of Islam you will stop wasting your time bitching about a 2nd term president of a country you do not live in and instead focus on the problems in your own country!
The reason no one cares anymore when an Arab or Muslim complains about western oppression is because if we weren’t oppressing you you would just be oppressing yourselves as you have for close to 7 centuries!

to Mr. O’Leary
Again you stste, “The threat to the US by Saddam and Iraq was not the use of weapons he had but in the knowledge he might pass onto AQ to build their own WMD…”
And again I answer, this is not the reason that Bushco stated as to why he ordered military action in Iraq, The reasons he stated have been proven to be false. He broke the law, there was no “clear and present danger”, as required by the constitution. Your assertion of passing knowledge was not Bushco’s claim, this is O’Leary’s claim. you wish thereby, to bend the law and invent your own version of history to allow your claim, and to continue to make war upon people who did nothing to you, outside of the illusions of your own racist paranoia. If they kill each other, this is a problem they have to deal with themselves, your idea of going in to kill more of them only makes you just like another one of them, or worse, since you claim to know better…

And I am American…PERIOD! Born from Armenians who were Marched and starved in the desert via turk muslims who hated christians because they were the last vestige of power they did not control!
Let me ask you this Brian…
If a guy has the recipie for weponized Anthrax does he have WMD capability?
If so then POOF goes your theory that Saddam didn’t have WMD…
Bush said specifically that we went into Iraq to remove the threat of Iraqi WMD ever being used against the US.
It is only your limited thinking and poorly educated mind that thought we were just going in for a few bombs he may have had scattered across the desert and swamps of Iraq!
EB – you know what that means to me?
It means God has his way and he has given each of us the CHOICE to follow it or not! I think your problem is you all rely so much on Romans and Paul yet isn’t what Jesus himself said just a bit more important?
You see you are justifying right and wrong based on a scripture that quotes a MAN not Jesus!
It’s the gospel accoring the apostle Paul but paul was long dead before word one of that was committed to paper!
It’s nothing more than an obedience text and tells you very little else about what God actually wishes!
does not spell out how to live merely states what the author thinks is NOT proper…
If that was a quote from Jesus it would lend it more weight!

Mike:
My subtraction is wrong. 13 books from 66 books are 53 books. I have had a long day with head pain. I just miscalculated.
The Book of Hebrews had been attributed to Paul, but it is likely not his. The author is unknown except that the Greek indicates the writer to be male.
The writer of Hebrews explains as follows in 4:12; “For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.” (New International Translation)
The word of God is living. It is not black and red letters on a white page. It has life and imparts life. That is what makes it different from all the other writings of history. That is the basis on which the 66 book including the Pauline writings ended up as in the Christian Bible. It contains the very breath of the Lord God Almighty.
It was not highly educated theologians that determined the 66 books as God’s word. It was the general Jewish and afterwards Christian populace. All the scholars did was be sure there were no loose ends. They found none.
Here comes a real trouble.
John of Revelation proclaims in Revelation 22:19 as follows:
“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” (King James Translation)
Do you still feel comfortable about cutting out 13 books?

to Mr. O’Leary
Here is a recipe, take a can of Campbell’s cream of mushroom soup, poke a small hole in the top, maybe use a thumbtack to make the hole. Let it sit in a dark, place for a few weeks, then open it and take a spoonful of the result.
Your next of kin will have learned how to make botulism, one of the most toxic bioagents known, an ounce of this stuff in the local water supply can kill a small city.
My knowing this does not mean that I have WMDs, unless I had already made some, and put into a deliverable form, but now your logic says I must also die because I have the recipe? Well, now you do also, so will you also agree to die?

EB – Let me answer your quote with another question…
Define TEACH in that scripture.
Does it mean Make follow by force, any means necessary?
Or does it mean EXPOSE them to the truth that you have found so that they may benefit from that truth and follow the path and spread the truth you have given to them?
The commandments are not in question. What is in question is what is does god want us to eradicate sin from others or simply eradicate sins in ourselves!
On a side note….Mind you not how I would interpret it specifically but the scripture you quoted could also be interpreted in very different ways. Much of that has to do most likely with the translation more than intent of the translator.
The phrase Lesser in the Kindom of Heaven and GREAT in the Kindom of Heaven seems to suggest (or could be read as) that even a sinner can make it into heaven only with a lesser status than those who have not sinned and therefore less of a status in God’s eye. But both are in the Kingdom of Heaven in that quote aren’t they?
There are plenty of other books that got thrown out of the bible by the Romans as well EB…
Many maybe for good reason but also many that contradict other scriptures they wanted included.
there are many factors that have caused misrepresentations from the original teaching, some intentional some simply clerical. The Old testament was in Hebrew where the same word can have many different meanings. Little subtle changes of that meaning when translated can change meanings drastically! the phrase, “My basement got Flooded” is not the same thing as “New Orleans was flooded”
Same word but vastly different situations….
Bottom line here is I can not teach you what the Bible means any more correctly than you can teach me! I can give you my definition or translation of what I think it means but for your spiritual awakening it has to mean the same thing to you or you must find the meaning in your own terms for it to truly have enlightened you! this is what FAITH is all about!
I can tell you that Jesus said to show love to your enemy. I define love as do not hate or fight against your enemy and instead show you are above the fight because you have all you need through your faith in God, I have no need to fight you because I have what I need from the Lord and by showing them love I am showing them that they can have all they need as well by following my example! That in a sense is TEACHING them…
you on the other hand I will guess (as I don’t want to put words in your mouth) that yourdefinition of Love is to take them by the hand and do everything you can to stop them from sinning.
I take my definition from Jesus’ own actions. He did not go up to a Roman or Sinning Jew and say to them no you must stop and do this instead. He didn’t follow people around and try to get his message accross. He stood there and preached and those that listened and followed the teachings learned!
Those that did not want to listen or follow were not held in any less regard by Christ he simply would be saddened that they had yet to realize the consequence of their actions! But he never lifted a finger to stop those actions!
IT wasn’t until the Fall of the Roman Empire and the needs for control of the masses in the power vaccum that spurred on the rite of excommunication and religious conformity where catholicizm is concerned. And it is also in this period that the decision of what book is in and which books are not were made. The bible was translated into Latin and Greek and much of the meaning of the original teachings may have changed with them.
Which is why I have a problem with anyone who takes the bible as the word by word teachings of the Lord. Sure much of the message is there. Some of it has been transposed and lost in the translations. And still many parts of it were written for political reasons more than spiritual goals.
To Truly have a spiritual awakening you must be able to weed through the messages and find the ultimate thread that defines christianity.
It could take a lifetime for one person to define that for themselves. It is foolhearty to try and define it for everyone else and get them to accept it.
TEACH the scripture and message as it pertains to you. But it will only be as successful lesson if the person being taught understands it for themselves!
Teach them that there is a path and that the path will lead them to spiritual enlightenment and happiness in the kindom of God…
But their Faith has to be their own. For it is that faith that God will be judging them on. And it’s not like homework where you can ask you neighbor to borrow his faith!

Mike:
Thank you. Let me paste the scripture first. It is the words of Christ and a very well known passage. As follow Christ proclaims:
Matthew 5:17-20, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall “teach” men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and “teach” them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (King James Translation)
You ask, “Define “teach” in that scripture.”
Romanized it is “didasko” in the Greek both places.
It is Pronounced did-as’-ko.
The definition is “a prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb dao (to learn); to teach (in the same broad application).
It essentially means the same as the English word for teach.
Webster’s Dictionary defines it as follow: “1. To show or to help to learn how to do something; give lessens; give the study of; instruct. 2. To give lessons to; guide the study of; with knowledge. 3. To give lessons in a subject. 4. To provide with knowledge, insight etc. ; cause to know, understand, etc. “
“and so forth”
You wrote “The commandments are not in question. What is in question is what is does god want us to eradicate sin from others or simply eradicate sins in ourselves!”
Here are the Words of Christ. What do you think they mean and do you agree that Christ is correct here?
I look forward to your reply.

Brian:
You are trying to dance around the issue again.
You wrote:
“You ask, “Then is Bin Laden a good person or a bad person and is Al Qaida a good organization or bad organization?”
Depends, if you’re Bushco, you probably love him, he gives you the excuses you use to trample all over human rights in the US and around the world, if you are the next of kin to one of his victims, or one of the Muslim organizations banning him and confining his followers for insulting Islam, you probably hate him.”
I did no ask anything regarding what you have unsubstantially named Bushco. I did not ask regarding the rest of the Muslim culture. I did not ask if anyone loves or hates Bin Laden or Al Qaeda.
What I asked is whether you take the position that Bin Laden is bad (wicked) and whether you take the position that Al Qaeda is bad (wicked)?
Do you take the position that Bin Laden is bad (wicked) and do you take the position that Al Qaeda is bad (wicked)?

to Mr. O’Leary
You wrote,”Brian – so I guess your stupid enough to say that North Korea doesn’t have any WMD….”
No, I don’t say such, but you are stupid enough to draw such an absurd inference. We weren’t even discussing North Korea, but since you wish to go there…
Saddam said he didn’t have any WMDs, this has been proven to be true. North Korea admits, and indeed brags about and has tested its’ nuclear capability, there is a rather large difference.
How to deal with North Korea and Iran? I prefer the attitude of Jacques Chirac, who said to Iran; (Paraphrased) “You have nukes. We wish you didn’t, but c’est la vie.
Know however, that the moment you launch one, you will be immediately incinerated…” Very smart strategy, the same one that kept the US and the Soviet Union from destroying each other, mutually assured destruction…
Are you, inferring from your logic, advocating launching pre-emptive war against North Korea? That will only kill innocent people who have no control over how their government pursues foreign policy.
Anyone advocating such doesn’t deserve the air they breathe…

Brian:
I asked you:
There was the kidnapping of United States embassy personnel in Iran. (There is a detail record there. The student were very vocal and liked to be on television. One even became president of Iran.)
There was the attack against the United States in the bombings in Beirut where United States soldiers died.
There are several attacks on United States embassies by Muslim extremists.
There was the first bombing of the World Trade center.
There was the bombing of the USS Cole.
There was the attempted assassination of the senior President Bush in Kuwait.
There was the flying of planes into the World Trade Center where 3,000 innocent people from around the world died.
All these attacks and the kidnapping were unprovoked.
Now please explain why all of these attackers just happened to be Muslim individuals with the same religious belief.
You answered:
“What is so strange about attackers in a Muslim area claiming Islam?
All Muslims are not good people, just as all Christians are not good people.”
Brian:
3000 innocent people lost their lives on 9/11 as a result of Al Qaeda under the direction of Bin Laden. Bin Laden was to later claim responsibility for the attacks. Also, they filmed part of their planning of the attack.
Now I ask you, is Al Qaeda a bad organization and is Bin Laden a bad person?

Mike:
We are getting closer in mind and like you I think this other fellow is hilarious.
I am at my 89 year old mother’s home today. It is Sunday. I told her what this guy was trying to say. She had a good laugh and said “you can teach a wise man, but a fool you can teach nothing”.

Brian:
You are dancing around the issues again.
What you gave is not an answer.
I asked you:
There was the kidnapping of United States embassy personnel in Iran. (There is a detail record there. The student were very vocal and liked to be on television. One even became president of Iran.)
There was the attack against the United States in the bombings in Beirut where United States soldiers died.
There are several attacks on United States embassies by Muslim extremists.
There was the first bombing of the World Trade center.
There was the bombing of the USS Cole.
There was the attempted assassination of the senior President Bush in Kuwait.
There was the flying of planes into the World Trade Center where 3,000 innocent people from around the world died.
All these attacks and the kidnapping were unprovoked.
Now please explain why all of these attackers just happened to be Muslim individuals with the same religious belief.
You answered:
“What is so strange about attackers in a Muslim area claiming Islam?
All Muslims are not good people, just as all Christians are not good people.”
Brian:
3000 innocent people lost their lives on 9/11 as a result of Al Qaeda under the direction of Bin Laden. Bin Laden was to later claim responsibility for the attacks. Also, they filmed part of their planning of the attack.
Now I ask you, is Al Qaeda a bad organization and is Bin Laden a bad person?

To Mr Ebbarn
You keep trying to go there, I keep warning you, still you ask, “Brian:
3000 innocent people lost their lives on 9/11 as a result of Al Qaeda under the direction of Bin Laden. Bin Laden was to later claim responsibility for the attacks. Also, they filmed part of their planning of the attack.
Now I ask you, is Al Qaeda a bad organization and is Bin Laden a bad person?”
Remember, you asked for it:
Al Qaeda was originally trained, armed, and organized by Bushco SR.’s CIA, as the US proxy in the Afghan war against the Soviet Union. The US taxpayer, through Bin Laden, underwrote the tab as Al Qaeda provided arms and logistics support and otherwise backed the group of resisters calling themselves Taliban, whose stated goal at the time was to set up an Islamic republic.
The contact and money handler was Osama Bin Laden, son of the wealthy Bin Laden family, who owned, among other things, Volkswagen dealerships in several the Arab countries, several parcels of oil producing land, and concessions for oilfield exploration, in Iraq, Kuwait, and refineries in Dubai, in direct partnership with George Bush Sr., under a holding company named the Carlysle group.
Osama was working for the CIA then, when Bushco Sr was head of the CIA. Now, I pose questions to you, If Osama really wanted to hurt Bush, why not expose some of the CIA’s dirty secrets? Why is it that, almost without fail, whenever Bushco wants his way to further violate human rights, Osama appears on Al Jazeera within 72 hours of such decisions? (Its called “news cycle timing, by the way)
Why could they find Saddam in a hole in the ground under a house in the desert, but can’t find Osama, who appears on TV almost as often as Larry King?
Knowing CIA secrets means you don’t “just quit” the CIA, as the wingnuts and Bushco suggest Osama did, like the original Mafia, you don’t leave it standing…
Possible and increasingly likely answers point ever more to Osama still working for Bushco, The tragedy of 9/11 has not been, and will never be fully investigated, there was no 757 jetliner at the pentagon, as early reports from Bushco spinmiesters suggested.
Enough? I could go on, but I already hear your blood pressure rising…

To Brian:
Your answer:
Yes I say I don’t like Al Qaeda’s tactics, they kill innocents, possibly on direct orders from Bushco and the CIA…
So you are saying that Bush and his associates as well as the CIA “possibly” are the direct command of Al Qaeda and ordered the 9/11 attacks.
Is that correct?
Just how “possibly” do you think Bush and his associates as well as the CIA are in command of these atrocities?
Now not liking is not saying a person or organization is bad.
I ask you again:
Is Al Qaeda a bad organization and is Bin Laden a bad person?”
Do you claim that and his associates as well as the CIA “possibly” ordered and is ordering the other atrocities world wide by Al Qaeda and Bin Laden?
Just how “possibly” if so?

Hey Brian….Use the Force dude!
Let go of your feelings!
Do not give into hate as that leads to the dark side!
ROFLMAO!
Never has one person been so wrong on so many issues!
Your spouting Bin Laden’s revisionist history here…not the truth!
Bush Sr helped the Mujahadeen, not Bin Laden! the Mujahadeen were Afghans not Arabs! In Fact the Afghans refused to fight with Bin Laden after his first two battles he led troops into, they got slaughtered! The idiot charged against tanks with Air support and they were decimated…not once but TWICE! They eventually sent him into Pakistan to run their propaganda and media wing where he couldn’t get anyone killed. IT is then that Zawahiri joined up with him and his fundamentalist ideas were formed and encouraged! He then broke from the Mujahadeen group and formed Al Sahab which had nothing to do with the Afghan war against Russia and focused on Islamic Fundamentalism exclusively!
He made up this fake history of how he helped the afghans repel the russians but the truth is he was no where near the battle when the Russians finally gave up! HAd little to do with the Victory but since most of the guys who did had died there was no one to challenged him except Masoud and Bin Laden made sure to get rid of him!
The only thing in afghan history that Bin Laden had much to do with was in financing the Taliban and helping to train them so they could take power. Bin Laden had little to do with this except supply money as it is Zawahiri who was the brains behind the movement.
It is quite apparent that you can not think for yourself and that you will refuse to answer any questions put to you as you have with Ed’s thice asked question on is Bin Laden evil…
Obviously you think he is not and you know if you say that on a US server that we will find you and give you an all expenses paid trip to the sunny resort in Guantanamo!

Mike:
I’ll get back with you later. I have a neighbor that has his horses on my place. I have had significant trouble with him over the last two years. The Sherriff’s Department has just ordered the horses off, but to prevent a confrontation that could turn nasty I am going to observe from afar off. The Sherriff’s department has advised me as such. This puts me outside the rest of the day.

To Mike
You wrote, “Bush Sr helped the Mujahadeen, not Bin Laden!
Again, atrocious spelling aside, I never said they were Arabs, I said that Bin Laden was Bushco’s proxy in the Afghan resistance to the Russians, He funnelled money (and you can believe it was not his own) and arms to various resistance groups there, just one of which called themselves Taliban.
Mujaheedin are paramilitary fighters who struggle for what they feel is the restoration of Theocratic order, claiming Islam, they believe their armed struggle is one of resistance to the imposition of secular governments. One such group called itself Taliban. Bushco doesn’t give a “ats rass” about theocracy, or any “‘ocracy”, for that matter, he wanted the Russians out so his company could build a pipeline through the country. When the Isalamic victors told him where to shove his pipeline, they all of a sudden became the bad guys, who “were sheltering the 9/11 perps (who were again, Saudis. the Taliban got “replaced” with Hamid Karzai, who immediately signed on to Bushco’s pipeline…
You write, “Obviously you think he is not and you know if you say that on a US server that we will find you and give you an all expenses paid trip to the sunny resort in Guantanamo!”
Shows how much you know about computers, this is on a server in the US, DUH…
I am easy to find, I am not hiding…
I think Osama Bin Laden is no more or less corrupt than his puppet masters in Texas, If it has become illegal to speak one’s mind in the US, or outside of it, then the US is already finished, the fascists have won, might as well hit “flush”….
Besides, since when has Bushco need ed a valid reason to kidnap and imprison people who disagree with him? Guantanamo is filled with innocents, whose only crime was not liking bombs falling on their houses, that’s ok by you, though, they aren’t “Christians” anyway…

to Mike O’Leary
You wrote, “Notice that you don’t see Bin Laden or Zawahiri strapping explosives to themselves…
If they are such great leaders and if Martydom is such a great priviledge why aren’t they doing it?”
One also does not see Bushco, or their children, or the children of congresspeople, or those of the senators fighting and dying in on the front lines in Iraq, If they are such great leaders and if “defending America” is such a great priviledge why aren’t they doing it?
Face it your a “hypo Christian fundamentalist”, nothing more than a robot to launch bombs to and kill other people in the name of someone else’s power…

Brian…again you haven’t a clue!
There are PLENTY of Senators and Politicians whose sons are fighting in Iraq!
My History about Afghanistan is completly Correct!
Since you couldn’t provide a history of your own it just shows you have nothing to argue with but contradiction and lies!
Please do the world a favor and rush to your destiny as a martyr!
In your case the world actually will be a better place once you blow yourself up!
I insult the pertpetually stupid who buys into the Bin Laden crusade in the name of a false religion!
What BinLaden preaches has nothing to do with Islam!
You claim to know a lot about Islam…
Well they are bound by the same commandments Christians are…
THOU SHALL NOT KILL!!!!
So how HOLY is your HOLY WARRIROR really?
Hurry up there are 72 virgins waiting for you!
They all look like Ernest Borgnine!

Brian Brian Brian….still with the poor facts and excuses I see….
Our Military and bush isn’t trying to kill anyone…our rules of engagement say you can only fire when fire upon…that isn’t killing that is self defense!
And you keep talking about AQ as if they are the only terrorists on the planet!
No one said Saddam had anything to do with AQ….we said he was Supporting Terrorists…like Abu Nidal, Palestinian Suicide Bombers, and Zachawi…
But we all know you don’t believe anything unless it comes from Bil Laden’s mouth…
You been suckered by him hook line and sinker!

Puppet President?
I guess you were too busy building Bombs to remember the ELECTIONS (note PLURAL) That were held in that country that selected their president and parliament!
And your so concerned about Americans hurting Iraqis, but what about your car bomb buddies who have killed more Iraqis than Americans?

They didn’t have to use car bombs before we went in…they simply had to arrest them to kill them instead!
Iraqis were polled and said they are better off now than they were under Saddam!
When you start showing proof of your lies I will be happy to counter with the facts that prove those lies wrong!

To. Mr. O’Leary
What polls do you refer to? All recent polls on all major news media networks, including this one, show clearly the untruth of your position, read and learn.
As for the police, if and when you reported me, they would of course have to read this blog for evidence, and then laughingly tell you that exposing your ignorance is no crime.

to Mr. O’Leary
Interesting article, I wonder how it stacks up against the news of late, all the news services, including this one, report of hundreds of thousands of people in the street protesting the US occupation, and demanding immediate withdrawal. Lets see, a few hundred cherrypicked opinions against humdreds of thousands of street protesters, hmmmm…
And I know about the feds too, big deal…

To Mr’ O’Leary
The reason I don’t cite polls is that the information is in current news articles, read and learn.
You write, “Some just want us to go so they can kill each other!
Like Muqtada al Sadist!”
We are over there on their own land, killing, raping, kidnapping and torturing them, all on the basis of lies by Bushco, but this is OK by you, who is the real sadist?

We are still there at the request of their duly elected government!
elected by a majority of their citizens!
We are not killing and raping those citizens…
More Iraqis are killed by Muqtada, his henchmen and your heros at AQ than by americans!
This doesn’t seem to trouble you…Killing is just fine as long it isn’t in self defense apparently!
Still waiting for some sort of proof of your assertions…
I know the moon is not blue yet so I won’t hold my breath waiting!

to Mr. O’Leary
Are you referring to Moqtada Al Sadr, the man to whom the US handed Saddam H. to be lynched before he could tell where he got the gas for the Kurds? The man whose name the hooded lynch mob chanted as the man had the rope put around his neck? Or is that a different Al Sadr?
It is clear that you don’t accept the proof in everyday news coming from Iraq, or any other information that runs counter to your assertions. We are over there on the basis of lies, killing, raping, and torturing those people. Whatever they do to themselves is part their own power struggle, it wouldn’t be happening if we hadn’t invaded.
You again condemn Iraqis without acknowledging your own role in creating the mess, and seek to justify the illegal occupation of a sovereign state, by inventing your own reasons, now that Bushco’s reasons have been proven to be lies.
Proof? It is in front of you, but you won’t see it, because your hatred will be revealed to yourself to be baseless, this is already clear to most others reading this…

you guys have it all wrong LIBERALS are usally against free sex,violence and adult entertaintment CONSERVATIVES dont give a crap. they separrate there politacall viewpionts from there entertainment pleasures kind of hypocriticall but who cares.

Hollywood is liberal because it’s so excepted by the media these days…if a conservative actor/actress speaks, they are torn down my the media, then they lose their jobs.
Bunch of Fruit & Nuts in Hollywood.
Who listens to them anyways….stop the money going to Liberal candidates, by stop going to the movie theater.

if you want higher taxes and less freedom then vote for a democrat