Honoring Those Who Died for Ole’ Dixie

I respect the decision to honor those fallen in the Civil War, not because of what the war was being fought for but because these men were brave enough to fight for what they believed was right. People must remember that there were black men fighting in this war as well. They might not be mentioned and/or recognized as taking part but according to history this did happen. I am from Georgia and Robert E Lee is in my heritage, so I do feel extremely strong about the confederacy; however I still do not consider myself racist or prejudice in any way. I have plenty of friends that are not caucasion in race and I have no problem with them. I feel that the apology in Virginia, for building the school using slave labor, is a personal choice on someone’s conscience.

God bless the men and women of the Confederate States of America who during the War Between the States, 1861-65, fought to be free.
The people of the South stood as their Revolutionary War ancestors did in 1776.
May America never forget the soldiers who wore the gray on Confederate Memorial Day and everyday.
April is Confederate History Month in the USA!
Have a Dixie Day!

Do what you will with the graves but please spare us all the baloney. Labeling the Confederates as the same as the American Revolutionaries is a slander. The American Revolutionaries fought for freedom, the Confederates were traitors to that cause who fought for the right to withhold freedom from others.

What about Minnestota?
We have the Defeat Jesse James days to celebrate that Rebs death.

To say that the American Civil War was fought to end slavery is like saying that we are still in Iraq looking for WMDs. To 90% of the Confederate forces, it was about a state’s right to say what it wanted. Yes there were slaveholders who wanted to keep that system in place, but it was more so a group of states who didn’t want the GOVERNMENT to tell them how to conduct their business. Even Abe Lincoln understood that. The great Emancipation Proclaimation only declared those slaves in captured territory free. It was the abolistionist who really fought to free the slaves. If John Brown was Islamic, he would be considered a terrorist today. Of course, slavery was not always a black issue, many “white” cultures after they beat an army in a battle, enslaved their enemies. Also don’t forget, that some Africans, freely sold their captives in to slavery. Honoring those who fought for what they believed in is a sacred trust and should not be said to treason.

I am proud of my Confederate ancestors that sacrificed their all to protect their homes and families. They did not own slaves nor did they risk life and limb so that some rich man sitting in his mansion could own them. The men of the Confederacy did everything they could to protect the South from the invading armies from the north. As a descendant of a Cherokee Great-great-grandfather, that was separated from his family and sent to live on a reservation, (not to mention all the other things done to native Americans over the years), I could be greatly offended by the flag that flies over America now. But I love that flag and I honor it, for I have many ancestors that served in the Revolution, WWI, WWII, Korea, Germany and my own husband, (who also has Confederate ancestors), served in Vietnam. I will honor them, and I will honor my noble Confederate ancestors and all those brave men that wore the gray. I will not buy into the lies and hatred that is being handed down by the naacp, the media and hollywood. I will hold fast to the truth! God Bless Dixie and all that love her!!!

First and foremost, being against celebrating any group that fought to maintain slavery is not hatred but decency and respect for the dignity of ALL human life. Second, you’ve obviously never read ANYTHING about the history of slavery or the Cherokee nation or you’d know that 1) Southerners kicked off the Civil War when they formed an army and attacked US troops at Fort Sumter, and where I’m from if you start a fight you can’t claim that you were merely “defending home and family” even if you get your butt kicked; 2) there was no real benefit for anyone who wasn’t well off to support secession, which was initiated by slave owners (EVERY member of the Confederate Congress owned slaves) only after Lincoln, whom they feared would abolish slavery, was elected in 1860; and 3) the Cherokees were major slavery owners and owned them collectively, so if you are a Cherokee descendent then you are a descendant of slave owners. Since you clearly “don’t know much about history, don’t much about geography”,
BTW, I’m black AND descended from blacks who owned slaves, so my ancestors probably had a vested interest in slavery and fighting the Civil War, but we don’t celebrate it as if it were some high point in our family history.

Do any of you people realize how few people owned slaves? Maybe 10 to 15%, if that many. That leaves a whole lot of fighting men that were fighting for the plantation owners to have slaves? I think not. Their states had been invaded,,,,they were fighting for their homes, their land and their state. By the way, the South doesn’t complain about ‘Black History Month’. Why can’t we have a Southern history month? Confederates we are by birth and we too HAVE A HISTORY…..

Friends,
Here is a paragraph from my article entitled “It’s Confederate Memorial Day in Dixie.”
Tennessee Senator Edward Ward Carmack said in 1903, “These Confederate soldiers were our kinfolk and our heroes.” He also said, “The people of the South have the right to teach their children the true history of the War Between the States, the causes that led up to it and the principles involved.”
The truth is that Confederates were fighting for many of the same reasons as that of the Revolution.
My Southern ancestors were not traitors, they were REAL PATRIOTS.
The United States and Confederate flags are both flags of freedom and should be flown whereever people desire to be free.
God Bless America and have a Dixie Day!

lets just remember the one’s that fought and fell for the true bill of rights as our forefathers wrote them

The statement just made by someone named “junkfood” just shows how the uneducated refuse to learn the truth. The coat of hate and bigotry toward the south and southern symbols these people love to wear, apparently warms their “greater than thou” attitude that they’ve held since the late 1800′s. The Confederate flag was is American flag… “The Confederate States of America.” It was… it is… and it always will be!!! No amount of hate, no amount of lies, nor anyone misusing it, nothing…. will ever change what it stood for when our brave Confederate soldiers carried into battle. Nothing anyone can say, write, or do will change that! And that is that!!!

I respect the remembrance of Confederate’s Day. My great uncle Rawls was one of Jeff Davis’ cabinet officers. My grandmother went through Sherman’s march to the sea and had horror stories about that. My grandfather had 9 slaves but freed them many years before the Civil War. Most Southerners never had slaves anyway.

To those uneducated people that think the Confederates were traitors: 1. They fought for the same principles that the Revolutiony War heroes fought for. 2. President Buchanan avoided war for several months after the election of Lincoln (who in that day didn’t take office until April), and so could Lincoln if he had wanted to. 3. Lincoln wanted war, I refer you to the very scholarly work of “Lincoln Takes Command,” by John Shipley Tilley. 4. You may be under the delusion that the supremacy of the Federal Government over the State Governments was an established fact then as now. Not so, in fact many if not most of the intelligentsia in the North considered the South to be right in their belief in a right to secede. 5. There was no Pledge of Allegiance to a Federal flag like we have today, that was added since the war.

You can’t have it both ways. If the Confederates were Americans, then they were traitors. If the southern states legally left the Union, then they weren’t Americans any longer. The southern states left the Union. The Union did not attack them for doing so. The southern states attacked Union forces at Fort Sumpter months after South Carolina seceded. Celebrating those who attacked America is unthinkable. Period.

The Confederacy attacked the Union, so I guess we can call the Civil War, the War of Southern Aggression. Let’s repeat that, shall we? The south started the war. The confederate apologists tell us that the south fought for freedom. What freedoms did they gain after leaving the Union that they didn’t have in the Union? Can anyone name one? The truth is that the southern states left because they didn’t like being part of a federal system that they didn’t control. Fine. But attacking their former compatriots was unforgivable. It’s astounding really. The south leaves the Union, starts the bloodiest war in American history and then whines about losing it.

AlaskaMike for the WIN! :D

It’s a waste of time to even discuss history with the ignorant and it’s even worst to waste time with those who use false history to further their personal agenda, such as Francys Johnson. With out “something” to point a finger at and scream offensive they have no reason for existence. Instead of actually doing something that would better the lives of others…. which would require real work….. they only scream for attention and self glory.
Did you ever notice that Dr. Martin L. King, in all the speeches he gave, never once spoke of the confederacy or the confederate flag? That’s because, first, he was a southerner. He realized it was his southern heritage also. Second, he didn’t need to point fingers for self glory. He was to busy trying to better lives.
Did you know that every year the NAACP, just as many other organizations, list goals they hope to accomplish. For at least the last twenty years they have listed the removal of “all” confederate monuments and flags in their top ten to do list. One would think that poverty, crime, health care, education and employment would take priority over the confederacy but not with the so called leaders who need something to condemn so they can get their name in a news paper article.

Google “Lincoln’s First Inaugural Address” and see what he says about slavery.
In an effort to entice the seceded states to return to the union, both houses of congress passed what would have been the 13th Amendment granting slavery constitutional protection. A few days later, Lincoln in his first inaugural address endorsed that amendment. If the seven cotton states had agreed to the deal presented by Lincoln and the congress and returned to the union, the 13th amendment would have protected slavery.
Here’s what Lincoln said about slavery:”I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.”….”I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution-which amendment, however, I have not seen-has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service. To avoid misconstruction of what I have said, I depart from my purpose not to speak of particular amendments so far as to say that, holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.”

Lincoln didn’t start the war. The Confederates started the war by attacking Fort Sumter. The south started the war. The bloodiest war in American history. Be proud of that if you want, just don’t try to get the rest of us to accept it. If you want to take 5 years out of the last 300 and call those 5 years the most important, that’s your choice. Don’t expect the rest of us to think it’s a wise one though. Being proud of your confederate “heritage” isn’t patriotism. My being proud of my great great grandfather is patriotism. He joined the Union army and fought in the Civil War after the USA was attacked by the CSA.

“The Confederate battle flag, called the “Southern Cross” or the cross of St. Andrew, has been described variously as a proud emblem of Southern heritage and as a shameful reminder of slavery and segregation. In the past, several Southern states flew the Confederate battle flag along with the U.S. and state flags over their statehouses. Others incorporated the controversial symbol into the design of their state flags. The Confederate battle flag has also been appropriated by the Ku Klux Klan and other racist hate groups. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, more than 500 extremist groups use the Southern Cross as one of their symbols.”
Gotta’ love that;
“…appropriated by the Ku Klux Klan and other racist hate groups. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, more than 500 extremist groups use the Southern Cross as one of their symbols.”
Can you feel the love?

A wise man once stated; “I dream of a day when the sons of slaves and the sons of slave owners will sit down at the table together.”
As the sons of slave owners, we’ve been sitting at the table waiting for the sons of slave for a long time. When will you stop screaming for self glory and come sit down with us? Why do you shout acceptance, tolerance and diversity but are not willing to live it yourself?

I live in Florida and I see the Confederate flag scattered throughout the neighborhoods where I live and some in the close cities nearby. It does not bother me.
It is a symbol of a past that is rich in Southern pride.
I feel that if the Northerners or Union sympathizers do NOT like seeing the Confederate flag when they come down to the South…then stay OUT!! Stay up North and leave us alone so we can continue our own showing of our history in our own backyards and public areas.
Northerners really need to examine their own involvement in the war and stop acting like they were so squeeky clean and moral and were fighting for the good of the union with a clear conscience.
Our ancestors of both sides would be surprised the battle is still raging on even today.

Too bad most of the northern posters here don’t know what true history is. They rant and rave without any facts to support their ideology. It’s too easy to spout things you know nothing about in order to stir up trouble and keep the pot boiling than to take the time to do your own research instead of relying on the propaganda that’s readily supplied by the media and so-called civil rights groups. The Federal government is still doing today what it done in this tragic time in American history. It has steadily increased its tyrannical control over all local governments and nullified the Constitutional principle of States Rights. God Save the South.
Deo Vindice

Check your facts folks. There were free blacks who owned slaves. There were Cherokee who owned slaves. There was a Cherokee general who fought for the CSA! Our ancestors fought and died to stop a invader. Most DID NOT own or want to own slaves. They deserve just as much recognition as anyone else who gets a whole day off. Long live Dixie

A few facts: (1) ess than 10% of southern soldiers ever owned a slave. (2) A good number of soldiers weren’t white themselves – Hispanics fought from Texas, at least five Indian nations supported the Confederacy ( including the first Indian general, Cherokee chief Stand Watie), blacks, and even women (over 300 women are known to have disguised their gender to enlist). (3) Treason? The south had seceded and formed its own nation. Charges of treason were dropped against Jefferson Davis because his planned defense was that secession was legal. SCOTUS judge Oliver Wendell Holmes admitted later that secession was “probably legal” under the Constitution.
Quit trying to rewrite history for PC purposes, and let people celebrate their heritage.

The war was really fought for Southern Independence and every man who gave his life for the cause should be remembered and celebrated.

I here a lot of people who do not know their history very well talking like they do. The Civil war was about States rights and not about slavery. So no was a traitor to his State at that time there wasn’t a strong federal government and States did not like to be told what to do as the taxation, laws and such. Please before you run your mouth especially if your people where more than likely not in this country by then. Read the Disuntied States of America, it is a college level histry book so it is not full of the propaganda put out in public schools.

Confederate Memorial Day (April 26th) and Confederate Heritage month is about honoring our ancestor’s who so bravely rose up against the tyranny of the Union to protect states rights, their homes, families, and the origional principals and form of government that the founding fathers of the United States had instituted in 1776. Slavery was one of the issues in the cause of war, but that is by no means why thousands of young men answered the call of duty to defend their state against the evil yankee empire. The big issues were taxation without representation (the same reason their grandfathers had fought Great Britain), and states rights plus what I stated above. You can’t tell me that all those thousands of boys went off and fought a war that was so cruel, and hard for four long years so that some rich planter could sit out on his gallery and watch his slaves pick cotton!!?? That’s crazy!! There were thousands of free men of color, and slaves (estimates go from 50,000 to 100,000) who fought or served the Confederacy in some capacity. Not only did blacks serve the Confederacy, but the Cherokee people, Hispanics, Irish, Jews, and the list goes on. You see people of all races and religions fought to defend Dixie and in the month of April and on Confederate Memorial Day the South comes together to honor all of them. They are our dead that we are proud of and they all deserve honor and respect. Why people in this politically correct world and people of the north cannot fathom that is beyond me. Let us alone to pay respects to our dead.
Deo Vindice!

Everyone becomes a professor in American History when this comes up as to who is/was right and what other groups are doing. I don’t believe anyone knows the intent of the group other than the group itself. If the confederate groups aren’t using money from the public, then why are so many people upset? People don’t get upset when Farrakahn (sp?), Jackson, or Sharpton go around with their ideas and programs.

It was correctly put forth earlier, that the southern states legally seperated from the United States, according to the U.S. Constitution, and that Lincoln acted illegally, in launching an invasion of the south. As for racism, it exist in the north, as well, and in some places, to a greater degree. I am opposed to slavery, but, I am not opposed to segregation. Look at the crime we have today. This is what we get for letting the slaves run the plantation.

Nola Darling writes of the Southern Army conscripting men and conveniently fails to mention the Northern Aggressors conscripted foreigners right off the boat as a prerequisite to gaining citezenship. Three hundred dollars would also buy a substitute to fill your obligation to the draft. Honest Abe even put up the three hundred, a fact of which you would be aware, Nola, if you knew as much War of Northern Aggression history as you would lead us to believe.

Lincoln changed the nature of the war with emancipation in 1863. It now becomes a war to set men free. Why would any poor southerner leave their small farms and families to fight many miles away with little food and no pay to defend slavery?

i am glad that my family wasn’t even here for this sad tragedy of a war. “civil war” – this kind of nonsense is best left to skeevy, “also-ran” countries.

“The southerners who supported the CSA were traitors.”
An asinine statement, as the best legal minds advised against trying Davis, as they thought the government would surely lose and show that succession was, indeed, legal.
He was, for those history-challenged individuals,released.

You cannot judge 19th century culture on 21st century values and morals.

The south did NOT fight for slavery…why? because as bad as it sounds that was nearly an issue then. The north still held four slave states and Brazil didn’t get rid of slavery until the 1880′s and it still exists today in africa. Is a Brazilian flag racist? How about a precivil war flag that had slavery then? How about every flag from say 1500-1860 then?
Technically it wasn’t even a civil war since the south wasn’t even trying to take over the north.
You cannot logically state that the civil war was about slavery because the emancipation proclamation was made in 1863…two years AFTER the war started. Lincoln made it to change the moral character of the war and that prevented the UK and France from supporting the csa outright.

What how are those organizations racist? There’s a difference between being proud of your own heritage and crossing the line and defecating on someone elses….that flag represents a lot of different things to alot of people and some to it represents a period in OUR history where they were enslaved…which is an abomination in God’s Eyes…

The civil war was about “states’rights” to enslave blacks and continue racial discrimination against blacks. That is why even the racists who did not own slaves were very willing to fight and to continue the subjugation of blacks after the civil war!

why should people forget their anscestors.
you don’t like it? lump it.
most of the confedearte dead are in private cementaries.
right of assembly is a civil right,even for people who’s accestors fought for the confederacy.

More Presidential comments:
Franklin Roosevelt – Address at Antietam Battlefield, Md.
September 17th, 1937
“We can and we do revere the memory of the brave men who fought on both sides. We can and we do honor those who fell on this and other fields.”
Not to mention that Gerald Ford restored the citisenship rights of Robert E. Lee and Jimmy Carter restored those of President Jefferson Davis.
Al, y’all above who call the Confederates “traitors”, how can you reconcile your feelings to those demonstrated by the many presidents of the United States?

Here in Charleston, SC Msy 10 is Confederate Day. Some of the comments above state that this observance doesn’t cost the states anything…well when the day is taking (not worked) as a holiday who’s paying the employees.
I’m sorry…but some how I don’t think we would want to celebrate when Hitler marched in to countries and killed Jews as a holiday even though its a part of history. I wonder why so many people tell the African Americans to get over it slavery and move on when we the Confederate holidays and flags keep flying in our faces. I think its time to move on and forget about the Confederacy.

Frist, Cherokee owned slaves and all this nonsense. So amazing to see that many talk like they have an immense vat of knowledge but have absolutely nothing historically correct to state.

Interesting, reading these posts! I was born and raised in CT (can’t get more Yankee than that!) I’m also well-versed in history, and the Civil War is my favorite period. That being said . . .
Sorry, folks – the primary reason the South went to war was due to states rights and the fact that Northern soldiers invaded their homeland. Most Southern soliders had no where NEAR the resources to own slaves. As to whether the Southern flag should be flown, or the Confederate dead honored? Without question. I do NOT, in any way, trumpet slavery. I DO recognize the courage, skill, and ferocity with which the South fought for 4 years – with FAR less resources than the North, less manpower, etc. And yet – they came THIS CLOSE to winning. You want military commanders? Sure, you have Grant, Sherman, Chamberlain, etc. But you also have Lee, Jackson, Longstreet – and the list goes on. These were Americans, too – who fought for what they believed in. And, yes, Virginia DID insist on states’ rights of secession prior to signing the constitution. Yes, the South DID attack Sumter – and the fight was on from there. The bottom line is: did the South have a right to secede? Yes. Am I glad they lost? Yes – we’re a far greater country because of it.
The Civil War defined us – let’s not mire ourselves in cheap shots and hateful comments, when ALL of those people, North and South, fought for higher ideals, even if they were contradictory.

The Civil war is part of our past and we remember the past so we don’t repeat the mistakes in the future. The Confederate holidays is about Heritage not Hate

Jimmy – I don’t get your point – is it really constructive to argue “what might have been” if we’d split, North and South, after the war? Wasted effort, IMHO.
Again, I don’t in any way condone the slavery issue; but it’s way too pat and simplistic to say “THAT’S what the war was about!” Since the founding of this country, there was tension re: Federal gov’t versus state gov’t. It came to a head in 1860, with Lincoln’s election. The South felt, “Hey – we said if he’s elected, we’re out of here!” The South had always felt the Federal gov’t was heavy-handed.
As simplistic as it is to say “the cause of the war was slavery”, it’s as simplistic to say that the stars-and-bars is a sign of hatred and oppression. I’m simply recognizing the sacrifice and bravery of ALL those men, North AND South. I TOTALLY agree that the American flag should fly higher than the stars-and-bars (sorry, folks, that’s a given!) But shouldn’t southerners have the right to take some pride in what THEIR ancestors did? Simply because you don’t agree with their cause, doesn’t mean they didn’t bleed and die like Yankees. Those men DIED fighting for the stars-and-bars and what it meant to THEM – why deny them the dignity of displaying a flag on their final resting place?

Honoring Those Who Died for Ole’ Dixie ??
They died for the “Noble Cause” of protecting states rights, not for Ole Dixie, slavery or any other federally protected historical reason.
And thanks to that defeat, we have more federal restrictions, interventions and intrusions into our everyday lives than the revolutionist ever had nightmares about.
The Founding Fathers must be ashamed of us.

To those who believe the US Constitution in force in 1860 allowed for the legal secession of any state PLEASE cite the article/clause where that right appears. Thanks.

As to a state’s right to secede, I’ll defer to the following (easily found on the internet): “Nowhere in the Constitution is there any mention of the union of the states being permanent. This was not an oversight by any means. Indeed, when New York, Rhode Island, and Virginia ratified the Constitution, they specifically stated that they reserved the right to resume the governmental powers granted to the United States.” (civilwar.bluegrass.net)
Also: why weren’t any Confederate leaders brought to trial for treason? Because this would have brought that particular facet of the Constitution to bear: was it LEGAL to secede? After a bloody four years, the North wasn’t ready to argue that point of law.
In practice, the Civil War put this all to rest: you join, you’re in for good. If it was understood from Day One that you did NOT have the right to secede, then why so much acrimonious debate on this point in the years leading UP to the Civil War?
My deal is this: I hold my own opinions of what was right and wrong – that’s fine, those are my beliefs. But when I read/study history, I sort of fence that off: my primary concern is not what I THINK, but what WAS – what HAPPENED, for good or ill. THAT should be the study of history.
BTW – it was General John Gordon who made that comment to Chamberlain at Appomattox about “HATING you, sir”.

Adrian – like I said, I concentrate on the fact of the matter, not on how I interpret their motives. And this discussion is muddied further because you’re reverting to that old saw, “The Civil War was fought over slavery” – it was a lot more complex than that.
I honor those who were willing to fight and die for what they believed in. I’m certain that, in this case, that includes both North AND South. My original point (several posts ago!) was that southern soldiers of the conflict deserve respect and esteem for their determination and bravery – to hang a small flag on their graves does service to that. We’re ALL Americans, right? The South celebrates the 4th of July, too. We’re all tied together – Grant was the victor of the war, right? One of his closest friends (and staunch supporter in the post-war period)? James Longstreet, corps commander under Lee, who called him “My old war horse”.

“”To those who believe the US Constitution in force in 1860 allowed for the legal secession of any state PLEASE cite the article/clause where that right appears. Thanks. Posted by: jaspar bob | May 3, 2007 3:39:59 PM”"
==========================================
Jaspar Bob,
How about you cite the article/clause that forbids secession.
The 9th & 10th Amendments cover secession, though not expressly using the word or words “secede, secession, secessionist”.
Plus the fact that when some of the States seceded from the Articles of Confederation, which was supposed to be perpetual, written in the document, then voluntarily acceded to the new Constitution, they wrote resolutions to the opinion that if things did not work out, they reserved the right to reclaim their sovereignty.
This is why I would never recommend Statehood for Puerto Rico, because, as things are now, once in, they can never leave.

Article 1, Section 10 of the US Constitution states:”No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.
No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it’s inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress.
No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.”

Wow, reading through these comments makes it sound like there’s a lot of people who need an unbiased history lesson about that time in American History.
Saying the CSA fought as traitors for slavery just shows a lack of education.

Nola, Darling,
“FYI, the Civil War was so popular in the southern states that the Confederate Congress passed the Conscription Act in 1862, thus creating the first military draft in US history.”
Actually, as you noted, the “Congress” of the CSA conscripted people. As this was a sovereign nation, it cannot possibly be the first conscription in US history. They are two separate countries.

AlaskaMike,
You are correct when you say, “You can’t have it both ways. If the Confederates were Americans, then they were traitors. If the southern states legally left the Union, then they weren’t Americans any longer. The southern states left the Union. The Union did not attack them for doing so. The southern states attacked Union forces at Fort Sumpter months after South Carolina seceded. Celebrating those who attacked America is unthinkable. Period.”
However, you neglect one detail. If the CSA is no longer part of the US, then US forces have no right to hold any forts in the CS. It would be as if Iraq told us to leave the country and we continued to maintain a standing army there. That, in itself, is an act of war.

BrianCA,
I don’t know what you are getting at as this passage vindicates the South, but is often misused by yankee sympathizers.
“Article 1, Section 10 of the US Constitution states:”No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation;”
This is often the point abused by scalawags and yankees. Unfortunately for them, it does not apply. Governments are granted their powers by the consent of the governed. When the Southern states acceded to the USC, they had to abide by this. It was part of the compact. When they withdrew consent to be governed, set up a new government and nation, they were no longer under these restrictions. It would be like saying, you sign a contract with a roofer to put on all new shingles. He never comes back and does the job, so you hire someone else. Does he now have a right to sue you for payment? His lack of follow through forced you to go elsewhere. Surely, you do not feel obligated to a contract in which you are no longer a party.
“No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.”
And this is the part that damns the North. As the remaining states under the USC, they had to abide by it. However, maintaining an army in a foreign country against its will is imperialism and an act of war. Not only did the north prosecute a war without congressional consent (at first), but there was no imminent danger of being invaded by the South who begged to be left alone in peace.

Well to call someone from the south who fought and died for what they believed a traitor is simple minded to say the least,everyone has the right to voice their opinions and stand up for their rights and they are the ones who pay for it in the long run.Are you a traitor for speaking against something you feel is wrong with the government,are you wrong to fight against the government forcing something on you that you feel is not right? There is a lot of things I do not feel is politically correct myself like the stamps for sale at the United States Post Office which I pay taxes and buy postage to run that sells stamps with the likeness of Malcolm X on them,who approved of any means to get his point across which is some instances included violence advocation towards government and whites is that or was that not treason itself?? Its time for everyone in this country to understand that history is that history it occurs everyday some good some bad which we all must deal with without playing a RACE card.

All these yankees and scalawag traitors keep spouting the Big Lie. What about what the people so close in time to then, what did they say, or think?
Teddy Roosevelt: Speaking at the welcome banquet, Richmond, Virginia, 1905:
“Coming today by the statue of Stonewall Jackson, in the city of Lee, I felt what a privilege it is that I, as an American, have in claiming that you yourselves have no more right of kinship in Lee and Jackson than I have.
There was an uncle of mine, now dead, my mother’s brother, who has always been, among all the men I have ever met, the man who it seemed to me came nearest to typifying in the flesh that most beautiful of all characters in fiction, Thackeray’s Col. Newcome – my uncle, James Dunwoody Bulloch, an admiral in the Confederate Navy…..”
Speaking in Charlotte, North Carolina,, 1905:
“As I got off the train here I was greeted by one citizen of North Carolina…whose greeting pleased and touched me more than the greeting of any man could have touched me. I was greeted by the widow of Stonewall Jackson.”
Dwight Eisenhower revealed at the Republican Convention in 1960 that Robert E. Lee was one of the pictures in his office in the White House. He said this in response to a question: “General Robert E. Lee was, in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. He believed unswervingly in the Constitutional validity of his cause which until 1865 was still an arguable question in America… Through all his many trials, he remained selfless almost to a fault and unfailing in his belief in God. Taken altogether, he was noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history.
From deep conviction I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee’s calibre would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities, including his devotion to this land as revealed in his painstaking efforts to help heal the nation’s wounds once the bitter struggle was over, we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained.
Such are the reasons that I proudly display the picture of this great American on my office wall.”"
How then is it that, in this day and time, Americans can call the people of the South, traitors, when clearly these two very distinguished Americans did not.

From 1750 to the American Civil War in 1861, Native Americans, especially those in the Southeast, interacted with enslaved blacks in every way possible, although there is no evidence that blacks ever owned Indian slaves. The nature of this interaction depended upon the historical character of the Indian groups, the enslaved people in their midst, and the white slaveholders. Native Americans assisted runaway slaves and also tracked them down and returned them to slavery. They married free and enslaved blacks, and accepted the children of such unions with few strings attached. They also sold blacks to whites, trading them like so many blankets or horses. Most importantly, many Indians owned black slaves. By 1824, it is estimated that the Cherokee owned 1,277 black slaves; the Choctaw and the Chickasaw held over 5,000 blacks in slavery by 1860. Some mixed-blood Indians, such as the Choctaw chief Greenwood Lefore and the Cherokee chief John Ross, owned between 100 and 400 enslaved blacks respectively. And when the southeastern Indians were forcefully marched west to present-day Oklahoma by the American government in the infamous “Trail of Tears” in the 1830s and 1840s, as many as 15,000 enslaved blacks were taken with them.

You confederate types are unbelievable. You claim anyone who does not agree with your narrow, warped view of history “does not know their history.” Here are the facts. The war was over slavery. PERIOD. You keep going to non-sequiters about percentages of slave owners and such, but you twits ignore the central document. READ SOUTH CAROLINA’S SECESSION STATEMENT! Now what right did they want that they no longer could have in the union? THE RIGHT TO OWN SLAVES! Your ancestors were traitors. They shot and killed members of the United States Army. Hey, here is a fact for you:
# of US soldiers killed by the Confederate traitors: 360,000
# of US soldiers killed by Al Qaeda: 2500
Oh, and as for that treasonous rag that some of you decorate home with — if the flag of the confederacy is so revered, answer me two questions:
1) Why not use the real flag, instead of a battle flag, re-emphasizing your treasonous murder of our troops;
2) Why was this “glorious” flag forgotten by the south, and only saw renewed widespread use in opposition to the civil rights movement in the 1950′s. Yea, go back and read some of the resolutions that changed your state flags. Racist to the core.
I may buy a small treasonous rag today myself, so that I can teach my children how to desecrate the symbols of racism and treason.

And another thing. So many yankees and scalawags accuse us of “still fighting the war” whenever all we wish to do is to honour our family ancestry.
What do they call themselves doing, if the above responses by the same are any indication?
Also, these selfsame yankees continuosly call us foul, vile names, exactly like their own yankee ancestors did to our Southern ancestors. Back then, hurling an insult was liable to lead to gunfighting, duels, at the very least fistfights. Nowadays, safely hiding behind the keyboard, the ugly yankee rears his mouth to repeat what his GGGrandfather said about our GGgrandfathers. “And the band played on…”

Here, leftcoast, chew on this!
Let’s review the Presidents Veto of the Reconstruction Acts.
Veto of the Act of March 2, 1867
The President explains what events must take place under the Reconstruction plan:
“Let us pause here to consider, upon this question of constitutional law and the power of Congress, a recent decision of the Supreme Court of the United States in ex parte Milligan.”
“I will first quote from the opinion of the majority of the court:
Martial law can not arise from a threatened invasion. The necessity must be actual and present, the invasion real, such as effectually closes the courts and deposes the civil administration.”
“We see that martial law comes in only when actual war closes the courts and deposes the civil authority; but this bill, in time of peace, makes martial law operate as though we were in actual war, and becomes the cause instead of the consequence of the abrogation of civil authority.”
Do we see the very real articles of war coming into play here? Congress is enacting laws in open opposition to the laws of peace. And they are making them permanent! We see that we are in a permanent war until we get educated and mobilized in a direction that “will most likely effect our safety and Happiness.”
Andrew Johnson goes on;
“I now quote from the opinion of the minority of the court, delivered by Chief Justice Chase:”
“We by no means assert that Congress can establish and apply the laws of war where no war has been declared or exists. Where peace exists, the laws of peace must prevail.”
“This is sufficiently explicit. Peace exists in all the territory to which this bill applies. It asserts a power in Congress, in time of peace, to set aside the laws of peace and to substitute the laws of war.”
“The purpose and object of the bill—the general intent which pervades it from beginning to end—is to change the entire structure and character of the State governments and to compel them by force to the adoption of organic laws and regulations which they are unwilling to accept if left to themselves.”
“The bill also denies the legality of the governments of ten of the States which participated in the ratification of the [13th] amendment to the Federal Constitution abolishing slavery forever within the jurisdiction of the United States and practically excludes them from the Union. If this assumption of the bill be correct, their concurrence can not be considered as having been legally given, and the important fact is made to appear that the consent of three-fourths of the States—the requisite number— has not been constitutionally obtained to the ratification of that amendment, thus leaving the question of slavery where it stood before the amendment was officially declared to have become a part of the Constitution.”
Did you understand what he just said? This last paragraph reveals that, under the prevailing wisdom of the time, which was squashed by the radical Republicans of the time, slavery is legal in these united States of America. President Johnson went on to say this:
“It is a part of our public history which can never be forgotten that both Houses of Congress, in July, 1861, declared in the form of a solemn resolution that the war was and should be carried on for no purpose of subjugation, but solely to enforce the Constitution and laws, and that when this was yielded by the parties in rebellion the contest should cease, with the constitutional rights of the States and of individuals unimpaired. This resolution was adopted and sent forth to the world unanimously by the Senate and with only two dissenting voices in the House. It was accepted by the friends of the Union in the South as well as in the North as expressing honestly and truly the object of the war. On the faith of it many thousands of persons in both sections gave their lives and their fortunes to the cause. To repudiate it now by refusing to the States and to the individuals within them the rights which the Constitution and laws of the Union would secure to them is a breach of our plighted honor for which I can imagine no excuse and to which I can not voluntarily become a party.”
And, this is not revisionist history. It is all a matter of public record and can be found at the Library of Congress website.

leftcoast,
Whether or not secession was wise, for the time, or if the reasons were valid, the right of the people of the South, the whole world over for that matter, to abolish or alter the old government is inherent. We have that right today, to alter or abolish the existing government and institute new government, according to the will of the people. Even lincoln once believed in that right, or so he said on the floor of Congress as a representative from Illinois in the mid-1840′s.
Anyway, secession did not give a right for the old government to invade in order to force people to accept the old gov’t. under penalty of death.
Are you among those people who opposed the secession of the several States(republics) from the old Union (USSR)? You can not oppose secession for the States of the old Union(USA) while supporting secession for the States(republics) of the old Union(USSR).

Jimmy,
There you go again with your vague statements, non-sequiters and a truely warped view of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and John Locke.
Whether or not the reasons were valid means EVERYTHING! Have you even read John Locke’s Second Treatise on Government, upon which the founding fathers (whom the …ah…I believe I have to be politically correct so as not to be edited again and say “confederates”…whom the confederates claimed to be following) based the Declaration of Independence? No where, ever, in the history of the United States was the right to overturn a government every argued to be absolute. A people, according to Locke whom Jefferson built upon, only has the right to overturn a government for a VERY VALID reason. For Locke, that could only mean property rights, and if you read the Declaration of Independence, you will see that is precisely what the founders declared was their reason for independence.
To actually demand the “right” to keep people in bondage as property had been ended in England as well as most of the United States. Many more, such as Frederick Douglass and William Lloyd Garrison, were lifting the veil off of slavery, showing the institution for all the ugliness that it was. For South Carolina (you keep avoiding that document, don’t you? Have you ever read it? And you dare to accuse ME of not knowing my history? A bit selective, are we not?) to claim that they were acting along the lines of the Declaration of Independence and Locke by attempting to maintain slavery is a farce. No, the fact that you want to maintain a monstrous institution is not enough to overturn a government, and neither Locke nor Jefferson would have sided with them.
As for Lincoln’s statement. Okay, let’s stay consistent here. Are you saying that whatever Lincoln says you are fine with? I do not know what you are referring to, although if it is what I suspect, you have once again taken a small statement completely out of context (I imagine you refer to the War with Mexico?). Again, a non-sequiter.

Re: the USSR. Actually, it is not. Russia, not the USSR, had long considered these areas legitimate areas of Russian nationalistic territorial claims. It is your ludicrous analogy of India which is laughable. England and India are half a world apart from each other, never before had anything to do with each other, each having a separate and distinct history and culture. Not so with the USSR scenerio.
When the Southern States declared that they had reclaimed their sovereignty, they filled the hearts of liberty-loving people the world over with hope. As Lord Acton said when he wrote to R.E. Lee, “Therefore I deemed that you were fighting the battles of our liberty, our progress, and our civilization; and I mourn for the stake which was lost at Richmond more deeply than I rejoice over that which was saved at Waterloo.”
And, you may know that around the time of the Mexican War, lincoln was a representative to Congress from Illinois. He said this, in part, on the floor of that Congress, “Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right, a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit. More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority, intermingled with, or near about them, who may oppose their movements.” – Lincoln January 12 1848, expressing the near-universally held Jeffersonian principle, before Lincoln unilaterally destroyed it, that no state could claim its inhabitants as its property. Whenever someone speaks in universal truths, and not specifically, as lincoln did here, then it must be presumed that the statement holds true for all, and for all time. lincoln did not speak specifically of the Mexicans when he said, “Any people, anywhere…”. This can only be taken at face value, even to include the Americans of his time.
“”you keep avoiding that document, don’t you? Have you ever read it? And you dare to accuse ME of not knowing my history? A bit selective, are we not?”"
I have not been among those who said you know not American history. I have, in fact, read most of the secession documents. The fact of the matter is that I do consider myself fair. I was indeed taught the winners side of the conflict when in high school and accepted that version as truth, never even thinking that there might be another viewpoint. This I learned much later in life, and, after considering both sides perspective, came down solidly on the South’s side. I have met foreigners who have studied the causes of the conflict and they also, independently, came to the same conclusion as I did, as well as others who have contended with your beliefs. Canadians, Scots, Aussies, Russians, Brazilians.
“Whether or not the reasons were valid means EVERYTHING!” Then, who is to judge what is a vaild reason? War? No, for that is like two guys who disagree, resort to fighting where the best fighter wins, giving him the right to declare himself RIGHT, just because he was the better fighter. That is not the way civilised nations resolve fundmental differences.

Before being critical of the South seceding, examine the ratification documents to the US Constitution. Please note that the states of New York and Virginia specifically reserved their right to leave the Union, which inured to the benefit of all states ratifying the Constitution. “The powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the people of the United States may be resumed by them whenever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression.”
If secession was not permitted under the Constitution, why were all the Southern states required to incorporate a clause, surrendering their right to secede, in their new Constitutions post war? Legally, one could never surrender a right that did not exist. Apparently, the Federal Government must have felt that there were legitimate legal grounds for the South’s secession.

It’s funny that people want to wage war on terrorists from the Middle East because they have attacked and killed Americans, and yet they are enthusiastic in their celebration of people who openly attacked the US, killed American citizens, and tried to take huge amounts of land from the country. If you look at the statistics from the Civil War of American citizens killed and property destroyed, and of course the concept of seceding from the country, then what the Confederate soldiers did is by far the worst act of terrorism in American history.

People seem to forget that slavery did not start in the south. It started in Europe and came to our county by the very rich. They had slaves in the north, but you don’t hear about that because there was more power in the north. Also, how many times I have heard the older singers, actors and other entertainers say that they sang in some of the best places across the states but they could not eat, sleep or come in the front door. They had to eat in the kitchen if at all, and leave by the back door. And no they were not allowed to sleep there. So, look in you own backyard and clean it up, before you try and clean mine. It is easier to just blame the South because you think that all the people are dumb. Well, quit a few of them came from the North.
Stop being so judgemental. It might come back to slap you in the face.