Comments on: Firefighters Whack McCain for Taxing Benefits

By: roarks, Cleveland, Ohio

roarks, Cleveland, Ohio — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:42:29 +0000

If Joe the Plumber thinks he can’t afford to buy the business under Obama’s tax plan then he really needs to consult a good accountant. Obama’s plan lowers taxes on the first $250,000 Joe makes. On the money over $250,000, Joe would pay 39% under Obama, instead of the 36% he now pays. That’s 3% more taxes, not exactly break-the-bank if you have already made $250,000 at a low rate. In fact, if Joe makes $280,000 then his taxes will only go up $900 a year (that’s 3% of $30,000, the amount over $250,000). Plus, Obama will give him a $1,000 tax credit for every job he creates, and tax credits for every employee that he provides health insurance for. Under Obama’s plan, Joe’s business will actually pay LESS TAX than it does now, as long as he has even just one employee.
McCain’s plan will tax the first $250,000 at a the current rate, then drop the taxes on anything over $250,000 by an unspecified amount. McCain’s plan does not give him a tax credit for every job he creates. If he provides health care for his employees he will now have to deduct yet another tax from their paychecks, adding administrative burden to his company. Not to mention that Joe will have to pay this tax himself on his personal income, which amounts to an extra $4,200 a year he pays in taxes (35% of the $12,000 a typical policy costs). And if his company does not provide health care, he and his employees will have to pay individually for their health insurance (average cost $12,000 per year), they’ll get a $5,000 tax credit under McCain, but be out of pocket at least $7,000 per year for their policy. Either way, Joe will pay MORE taxes under McCain’s plan.
does this man think we are stupid enough to fall for his tactical taxcut and strategic financial devastation? why does he keep assuming that we can’t do our math?

By: McCain/Palin = Corporations First

McCain/Palin = Corporations First — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 01:25:10 +0000

Paul,
Here is another reason why Democrats have not a clue how business reacts to tax policies.
Your point is that higher tax rates will encourage businesses to reinvest more into their business is idiotic.
Obama Plan – according to Paul:
EBIT: $80 << after reinvesting $20 in PPE in Ohio plant
Taxes: $40
Net Income: $40
Obama Plan – judged by those with common sense:
EBIT: $80 << after reinvesting $20 in PPE in Vietnam plant
Taxes: $40
Net Income: $40
? for you Paul. If you only get to keep 50% of the profit you'd earn, in the future, on the $20 capital investment you make in the U.S., but the same investment in Vietnam will allow you to keep 80% of the profits you generate from the same investment, would you invest in the U.S. or Vietnam??? Go ahead, shout out the answer.
The answer is Vietnam. This of course assumes plant utility and wage costs are the same between the U.S. and Vietnam, which they're not? The incentive to invest in Vietnam is even higher because of these factors. Throw in regulation and your theory flails out.
Also, Paul, businesses make capital investment decisions based on their believe that sufficient market demand exists to warrant expansion. If they don't believe the market demand will allow them to make the return they seek before taxes, they could care less what the taxes are to begin with. But when, they do determine expansion is warranted, their ability to gain access to the lowest cost funding is easier to secure with a stronger balance sheet (ie, more cash from less taxes on profits present and future) and, in the eyes of their potential creditors, stronger expected future cash flows…cash is required to pay the bondholders that fund expansion all across the globe Paul. The higher the taxes, the less cash flow.
Just to make sure you're all straight, one final point. You weren't thinking that they'd staff that Vietnam plant with Democrats from Ohio were you? No Paul, they staff it with Vietnamese.
I hope this helps you correct your vote and your future postings.
Posted by: Taxes 101 for Voters | Oct 22, 2008 10:58:17 AM
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Ok we get you're against Obama and his policies. Now explain in the same lengthy fashion why Bush/McCain policies are better since we have and are currently experiencing the utter failure of those policies

By: Joe the Firefighter

Joe the Firefighter — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:05:49 +0000

As someone forced to belong to the International Association of Firefighters, I can assure that the majority of the members DO NOT support Obama. Like most labor unions, a good and noble concept has been hijacked by socialists and corrupted. If Obama wins watch for the payback to big labor, not the members the leadership. They will enrich themseles at their members expense, once again. The IAFF executive board pushed through their own golden parachute at the convention this summer in Vegas. After 12 years of service, they will recieve 80% of their salary for life, with survivor benifits,upon retirement. Their contribution, $0, nada, nothing. Not bad, works out to over $150,000 a year for the president. This with members facing layoffs and benefit reductions, union leaders are just as greedy as any CEO. No alot of us wll vote onmoral and ethical issues, not who promises us the most handouts.

By: jerry denim

jerry denim — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:00:21 +0000

one of the early posts cites McCain’s healthcare proposal as evidence of McCain’s ignorance of the marketplace because of the obvious harm it would inflict on the average working American. This asssumption is far too generous to McCain. McCain knows all too well that his plan will cost millions of Americans their health insurance and is a shamelesss grab at their paychecks, he just doesn’t care about normal working Americans. He does care about his good buddies the executives at insurance companies and big pharma. McCain’s plan by freeing insurance companies to deny coverage to Americans they deem “risky” and charging young healthy Americans that can still get insurance a lot more money for inferior plans is going to make health insurance an even more profitable buisness than it already is. John McCain understands the economy alright, he just doesn’t care about Americans (unless you make over $364,000 a year)

By: Hippie Smasher

Hippie Smasher — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:05:29 +0000

We need a strong third party in this nation. Both sides of aisle like to tax us they just do it in different ways.

By: Taxes 101 for Voters

Taxes 101 for Voters — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:58:17 +0000

By: McCain/Palin = Corporations First

McCain/Palin = Corporations First — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:57:44 +0000

McCain the hypocrite rails on Obama about raising taxes on the rich and states why raise taxes on anybody in this economic enviroment? But hypocrite McCain has no problem TAXING health care benefits. You just can’t trust anything republicans said because they’ll say anything to get elected. Then they’ll continue to ignore struggling americans while kissing the feet of corporations and the wealthy.

By: Sharonklim

Sharonklim — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:21:59 +0000

I am a medical professional and John McCain’s health care plan would most definitely be the end to employer provided benefits. Yes, we would have to add to our income the costs of these benefits. Yes, we would be a deduction, but
Cost = 1 person average age for average plan = approx $6000
Cost = family of four average age for average plan = $12000
Deduction = 1 person $2500
Deduction – family of four average age for average plan = $5000
final – 1 person average age – $6000 – 2500 = $35000 short – cash out of pocket
Final – family 4 average age – $12000 – $5000 = $7000 short – cash out of pocket
The benefit deduction will not increase. Medical health care costs rise approximately 8-9% per year. Your costs will get quite larger fast.
John McCain will take tax benefit deduction away from employer. Employers will no longer provide health care benefits. Presently calculated into employer expenses.
John McCain wants to deregulate rules of health care benefit insurance companies to allegedly promote more competitive market and decrease benefits. People are having difficulty getting insurance companies to pay or provide benefits for existing medical conditions. Rules that enforce and protect our health and us as consumers are at high risk of being eliminated.
Deregulation is what got us into financial meltdown!! What do we need a medical meltdown crisis of medical health care system in America!!! We need rules to protect our health and our lives!!
Firefighters are quite correct!!! And I only touched upon the hot tips of alert on the iceberg!!!
Barack Obama’s Health Care Plan is much better. He proposes to protect employer provided insurance. This is not nationalized health care medicine in any way. Go review both plans

By: edward

edward — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:27:03 +0000

McPain’s Ailin’
he’s proven to be a dishonorable lieing p.o.s..
clueless on all fronts
loose cannon
mean and out of control
he’s OLD OLD OLD.
crank old fart
but a scumbag ta’boot
perfect for the “real ‘murica” voter – who consistently vote themselves deeper and deeper into a hole with r-wing “policies”.
President Obama – sounds great , we are looking fwd to your leadership sir.
good day people

By: Taxes 101 for Paul

Taxes 101 for Paul — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:29:09 +0000