RNC Ad: Obama Spending Plans ‘Crazy’
ABC News’ Rick Klein Reports: The Republican National Committee is launching a new ad Wednesday that blasts Sen. Barack Obama’s new spending proposals as “crazy,” ramping up GOP attacks in five battleground states — and continuing to position the RNC in opposition to the Wall Street bailout package.
The ad, which features the sound of a typewriter and letters on a screen but no other visuals, claims that Obama “would spend $1 TRILLION on top of our current national budget. . . . “On top of the $700 billion plan Congress just passed to cover failure on Wall Street . . .”
“Barack Obama’s plan: One trillion MORE. Sound crazy? It is.”
Brad Todd, who heads up the RNC’s “independent expenditure” arm, said in a statement that the ad is “unlike any other in this presidential campaign. Its only audible words are the legally required disclaimer and the ad includes no pictures or elaborate graphics. Senator Obama’s plans are so dramatically out of step with our country’s financial situation that no sales techniques are required to make the case.”
The ad will run in Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Wisconsin, Todd said. He said the committee will spend $5.5 million over the next eight days on this and a previously released anti-Obama ad, which is airing in North Carolina, Florida, and Maine, and that also takes aim at Obama’s spending plans.
The $1 trillion figure refers to high-end estimates of the cost of Obama’s spending proposals over the entirety of a four-year term. The numbers has been disputed by some independent fact-checkers, who note that Obama has proposed spending cuts of a roughly similar level.
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Quick RNC – smear Obama to hide the massive Medicare cuts McCain announced! Did you see your poll numbers slipping in the over 70 crowd now?
Posted by: Paige | October 7, 2008, 1:08 pm 1:08 pm
The $1 trillion figure refers to high-end estimates of the cost of Obama’s spending proposals OVER THE ENTIRETY OF A FOUR YEAR TERM.
The numbers has been disputed by some independent fact-checkers, who note that Obama has proposed SPENDING CUTS OF A ROUGHLY SIMILAR LEVEL.
AND WHY DON’T THEY MENTION THAT THE FEW ACTUAL PLANS THAT MCCAIN DOES HAVE CREATES MORE OF A DEFICIT!
Posted by: Truth Matters | October 7, 2008, 1:14 pm 1:14 pm
same team
same tactics
same massive lies
9th year
throw these bums out.
Posted by: dl | October 7, 2008, 1:17 pm 1:17 pm
HERE IS WHY I WOULD VOTE FOR PALIN:
http://www.jedreport.com/2008/10/sarah-palin-palling-around-wit.html
I don’t see how a patroitic ALASKAN can afford to vote for anyone but Palin after seeing this Vedeo
Posted by: PatrioticAlaskan | October 7, 2008, 1:25 pm 1:25 pm
Rich Lowry on the clueless McCain camapign
“McCain has to meet a higher standard. Not having a compelling economic message before the financial crisis hit was malpractice; now it’s madness. McCain’s pet causes of bipartisanship and earmark reform don’t qualify as such a message. Bipartisanship is an empty concept; the parties can unite just as easily to pass foolhardy laws as necessary ones. Meanwhile, only John McCain would — as he did in the first debate —steer a discussion about a complex global credit crunch onto earmarked federal spending for bear DNA research.
McCain has suffered from his own manifest lack of interest in economic issues. He was chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee for four years, but you’d never know it. He repeatedly misstates his only real tax proposal for the middle class, an increase in the dependent exemption. Often, he calls it a credit. In the first debate, he called it a dividend. He might as well lurch into Tina Fey territory and call it that “hoozie-what’s-it.” Most voters probably didn’t even know that McCain had a (creative) health-care plan until Obama began lambasting it.”
Posted by: becky | October 7, 2008, 1:32 pm 1:32 pm
CRASH! There Goes McCain’s Second Glass House Crashing Down!
Keating 5= 1st Glass House
Council for World Freedom= 2nd Glass House
Supporting Domestic Terrorists who Bombed Women’s Clinics and Killed hundreds of people=3rd Glass House
Keep going McCain, by the end of the week you will be sleeping in a homeless shelter!
you have been on a US Govt health plan your entire life….but nobody else should have that benefit.
Palin accused Obama of exploiting the health care and Social Security issues to win votes among seniors in Florida.
“Our health-care plan will give millions of middle class Americans access to better health-care coverage without costing you a dime,” she said, saying middle class families would receive a $5,000 tax credit to buy coverage.
How can she say that with a straight face? Has she not read McCain’s health care plan. It is paid for by taxing employer provided health care plans and cutting funding for Medicare and Medicaid. And McCain wanted to privatize social security. Thank God that did not happen we would all be in an even bigger world of hurt now that the market is tanking.
Posted by: becky | October 7, 2008, 1:34 pm 1:34 pm
BILL CLINTON, IN ALL HIS SMARTNESS AND EFFICIENCY, COULD NOT DELIVER UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE..WHAT MAKES YOU THINK OBAMAM WILL?
IF YOU ARE COUNTING ON SANTA CLAUS OBAMA TO BRING YOU HEALTHCARE. REMEMBRE HE HAS TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN OTHER HANDOUTS, WE CANT AFFORD
REASON? WE DONT HAVE THE MONEY AND ITS TOO MUCH GIVEAWAY FROM OBAMA.
Posted by: TJ, THE CLINTONITE | October 7, 2008, 1:37 pm 1:37 pm
WHY MCCAIN HAS NOT BEEN SEEN IN PUBLIC IN THE LAST 2 DAYS.
McCain apparently had a dizzy spell and almost collapsed, but was caught by one of his FBI Security details.
Investigations are on trying to force McCain to release his latest medical records.
McCain has either developed prostate cancer or his skin cancer is back.
If any of this is true McCain has less than 3 years to live. And don’t talk to me about his mother because she does not have cancer.
At what ages did McCain’s father and grandfather die?
Just think about it for a moment my friends.
McCain will die in office if elected and Sarah Humpty Dumpty Palin will be President.
God Save America.
Posted by: Steve_NJ | October 7, 2008, 1:40 pm 1:40 pm
what’s crazy is the skeezer and the geezer still don’t have an economic plan…short of kill some moose while flying Cindy’s plane
Posted by: NatFrankie | October 7, 2008, 1:43 pm 1:43 pm
YOU mean barack will actually will take money and fix education ,healthacre , infrastructure , energy .. things that create JOBS , what a NOVEL IDEA.
Instead of more going to companies and more WARS I would hope so.
Obama /biden
Posted by: sally | October 7, 2008, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm
$1 trillion dollars for health care and education for the American people
$0 trillion dollars for war for somebody else
works for me!
Posted by: NatFrankie | October 7, 2008, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm
It’s not a smear campaign if it’s the truth.
Posted by: Howdy Do! | October 7, 2008, 1:56 pm 1:56 pm
dream on GOP voters…..ALL YA LEADER’S WILL BE REPORTING TO OBAMA/BIDEN AFTER THE ELECTION. SO BE PREPARE FOR YOUR NEW ASSIGNMENT MOPPING OBAMA NEW WHITE HOUSE FLOOR…..HAHAHAHAHHA
Posted by: John | October 7, 2008, 1:57 pm 1:57 pm
Soooo,Obama’s plan is crazy. Compared toooooo? The current one?
Posted by: hannah | October 7, 2008, 2:03 pm 2:03 pm
Nevada state authorities seized records and computers Tuesday from the Las Vegas office of an organization that tries to get low-income people registered to vote, after fielding complaints of voter fraud.
Bob Walsh, spokesman for the Nevada secretary of state’s office, told FOXNews.com the raid was prompted by ongoing complaints about “erroneous” registration information being submitted by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, also called ACORN.
The group was submitting the information through a voter sign-up drive known as Project Vote.
“Some of them used nonexistent names, some of them used false addresses and some of them were duplicates of previously filed applications,” Walsh said, describing the complaints, which largely came from the registrar in Clark County, Nev.
Secretary of State Ross Miller said the fraudulent registrations included forms for the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys football team.
“Tony Romo is not registered to vote in the state of Nevada, and anybody trying to pose as Terrell Owens won’t be able to cast a ballot on Nov. 4,” Miller said.
Walsh said agents from both the secretary of state’s office and Nevada attorney general’s office conducted the raid at 9:30 a.m. local time, and “took a bunch of stuff.”
Bertha Lewis, interim chief organizer for ACORN, released a statement saying the group has for months been turning over any suspicious registration information to elections officials. She said those officials routinely ignored their tips, and called the raid a “stunt.”
“When we have identified suspicious applications, we have separated them out and flagged them for election officials. We have zero tolerance for fraudulent registrations. We immediately dismiss employees we suspect of submitting fraudulent registrations,” she said. “Today’s raid by the secretary of state’s office is a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible voter to the polls.â€�
Neither the group, which hires canvassers to register voters, nor any employees have been charged or arrested for fraud or other crimes, said Miller, a Democrat.
But it’s not the first time ACORN’s been under investigation for registration irregularities. The raid is the latest of at least nine investigations into possible fraudulent voter registration forms submitted by ACORN — the probes have involved ACORN workers in Wisconsin, New Mexico, Indiana and other states.
In 2006, ACORN also committed what Washington Secretary of State Sam Reed called the “worse case of election fraud” in the state’s history.
In the case, ACORN submitted just over 1,800 new voter registration forms, and all but six of the 1,800 names were fake.
More recently, 27,000 registrations handled by the group from January to July 2008 “went into limbo because they were incomplete, inaccurate, or fraudulent,” said James Terry, chief public advocate at the Consumers Rights League.
Posted by: HP Boston | October 7, 2008, 2:04 pm 2:04 pm
Voters conveniently forget that Reagan ran up huge deficits to finance Star Wars. Clinton left office with the economy in excellent shape heading toward surpluses not debt. Bush has run up the biggest debt in US history by cutting taxes for the wealthiest 1% (the failed trickle down policies of Reagan again) and financing a disastrous and unnecessary war in Iraq against the best interests of this country. Under Bush interest rates were kept absurdly low and deregulation with no oversight gave Wall St. the chance they needed to relive the Savings and Loan Scandal of the late 80′s (Reagan & Bush I) but with even more dire consequences. Bush has mortgaged the future of this country to offshore interests including the Chinese and the Russians. McCain economic policies are identical to Bush’s. We are near the greatest calamity since the Great Depression and McCain, who said two weeks ago that the economy was fundamentally sound wants to rewrite history and blame our misfortunes on the Democrats. What is this man smoking?
Posted by: jefflz | October 7, 2008, 2:05 pm 2:05 pm
People have to get out of the mindset that McCain’s economic plan is just like Bush’s – the only thing similar is extending tax cuts for businesses and that’s something we don’t want to end now anyway, when we’re in the middle of an economic meltdown – that would be suicide. McCain’s plan is about strengthening businesses (not taxing them more) and giving significant breaks to all families (tax breaks for health care, tuition vouchers, etc.) as well as providing necessary oversight and regulation for institutions to prevent another Fannie/Freddie debacle.
Posted by: Great Big Sigh ... | October 7, 2008, 2:12 pm 2:12 pm
jefflz – you forgot to mention that Bush warned Congress many times to get a better handle on Fannie/Freddie and McCain introduced legislation aimed at providing oversight (Biden opposed it) yet democrat after democrat argued that Fannie/Freddie were fine – no oversight needed. The Fannie/Freddie meltdown got the ball rolling and set the tone for Wall Street lending – the new low standards ultimately led to the high foreclosure rate in the housing market. You can’t pin this economy on Bush. There’s enough blame to go around.
Posted by: Cut and Paste | October 7, 2008, 2:18 pm 2:18 pm
Bush/McCain. No More Years.
Posted by: thebob.bob | October 7, 2008, 2:18 pm 2:18 pm
“YOU mean barack will actually will take money and fix education ,healthacre , infrastructure , energy .. things that create JOBS , what a NOVEL IDEA.”
Yes, just look at all the good that he and Ayers did with the Annenburg Challenge and the $49.2 Million dollars….oh wait, it was a big waste of money with no results. You can expect 4 years of the same from an Obama administration, only the money won’t be coming from a foundation, it will be coming directly out of our pockets.
Posted by: Mack | October 7, 2008, 2:20 pm 2:20 pm
“jefflz – you forgot to mention that Bush warned Congress many times to get a better handle on Fannie/Freddie and McCain introduced legislation aimed at providing oversight (Biden opposed it)”
You’re a racist!
Posted by: Mack | October 7, 2008, 2:22 pm 2:22 pm
John, your dreams will never come true, because your Nobama is looser, so are you. You better concentrate on things like how to live on your own account, and don’t count on other people’s money.
If Obama wants to help poor people, let him pay his own money. I, for example, don’t want to help everybody in a whole world, especially people who hate America.
Posted by: Alek | October 7, 2008, 2:24 pm 2:24 pm
“Yes, just look at all the good that he and Ayers did with the Annenburg Challenge and the $49.2 Million dollars….oh wait, it was a big waste of money with no results.” ~~ How do we know good things were done with that money? The money was funneled to the schools through community groups, plus Obama doesn’t talk about his time on that board – actually he forgot to mention his 7-year working relationship with Ayers when asked about it.
Posted by: Cut and Paste | October 7, 2008, 2:29 pm 2:29 pm
Thank you goofsmom but this is what I found out about Senator John Glenn…………
Glenn was one of the five U. S. Senators caught up with Lincoln Savings and the Keating Five Scandal after accepting a $200,000 contribution from Charles Keating.
Glenn and Republican Senator John McCain were the only Senators exonerated.
The Senate Commission found that Glenn had exercised “poor judgment.”
The association of his name with the scandal gave Republicans hope that he would be vulnerable in the 1992 campaign. Instead, Glenn handily defeated Lieutenant Governor R. Michael DeWine to keep his seat.
Posted by: HP Boston | October 7, 2008, 2:41 pm 2:41 pm
Scary times. Obama and his cronies force the banks to give mortgages to people that cannot afford them. Then, when the Republicans want to regulate Fannie and Freddie, Obama and the Dems. vote them down. Now, BHO and the Dems are saying that the financial implosion was caused by the Republicans because they “don’t like regulation.” The Audacity of the Dems is beyond measure.
Posted by: Freddy | October 7, 2008, 2:48 pm 2:48 pm
Barack Obama’s Health Care Record
ARLINGTON, VA — With Barack Obama lying about John McCain’s health care plan today, please find below the facts about Barack Obama’s health care record:
BARACK OBAMA RECENTLY ACKNOWLEDGED HIS PLAN WILL COST AT LEAST $150 BILLION A YEAR
Despite What He Claimed Today, Barack Obama Recently Said His Plan Will Cost At Least $150 Billion, Despite Earlier Claims That It Will Cost Much Less:
Barack Obama Said On “60 Minutes” That His Plan Would Cost At Least $150 Billion. CBS’ Steve Kroft: “How much is it going to cost? $150 billion it’s going to cost, right?” Obama: “It is. It is. But we pay for every dime that we propose to spend. I believe in pay as you go. That if you want to propose a new program, you better cut some old ones. If you want to expand a program, then you better figure out where the money’s coming from.” (CBS’ “60 Minutes,” 9/21/08)
Previously, Barack Obama Said His Plan Will Save The Average Person $2,500 Per Year And Will Cost Taxpayers Between $50-$65 Billion Per Year. “Obama said his plan could save the average consumer $2,500 a year and bring health care to all. Campaign aides estimated the cost of the program at $50 billion to $65 billion a year, financed largely by eliminating tax cuts for the wealthy that are scheduled to expire.” (Mike Glover, “The Time Has Come For Universal, Affordable Health Care, Obama Says,” The Associated Press, 5/29/07)
BARACK OBAMA’S CLAIM THAT HIS PLAN SAVES FAMILIES $2,500 IS BASED ON “MISLEADING MATH”
There Is “Zero Credible Evidence” That The Obama Plan Will Lower The Costs Insurance Premiums By $2,500, Which Is Based Off Of “Misleading Math”:
Obama’s Pledge To Lower Health Care Premiums By $2,500 In His First Term “Is A Matter Of Considerable Dispute” Among Experts. “In speech after speech, Senator Barack Obama has pledged that he will lower the country’s health care costs enough to ‘bring down premiums by $2,500 for the typical family.’ Moreover, Mr. Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee, has promised that his health plan will be in place ‘by the end of my first term as president of the United States.’ Whether Mr. Obama can deliver is a matter of considerable dispute among health analysts and economists.” (Kevin Sack, “Obstacles For Obama In Meeting Health Care Goal,” The New York Times, 7/23/08)
A Health Policy Professor At The University Of North Carolina-Chapel Hill Said The Savings In The Obama Plan Are “Wishful Thinking.” “Jonathan B. Oberlander, who teaches health policy at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, called it wishful thinking. ‘Do they have the potential to generate significant savings in the long run?’ Dr. Oberlander asked. ‘Yes. Do I believe they will produce substantial savings in the short run that can be used to finance Obama’s plan? No.’” (Kevin Sack, “Obstacles For Obama In Meeting Health Care Goal,” The New York Times, 7/23/08)
M.I.T.’s Jonathan Gruber Said That There Is “Zero Credible Evidence” That The Obama Plan Will Save The Average Family On The Costs Of Insurance Premiums. “Experts also are skeptical of both [Obama and Clinton's] claims that their plans will reduce the cost of insurance for the typical family by $2,000 or more. ‘I know zero credible evidence to support that conclusion,’ says M.I.T’s Jonathan Gruber.” (Factcheck.org Website, http://www.factcheck.org, Accessed 6/9/08)
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 2:52 pm 2:52 pm
Factcheck.Org Said Obama’s Claim That His Plan Will Cut Insurance Premium Costs By $2,500 Is “A Bit Of Misleading Math.” “That’s a bit of misleading math. It assumes individual Americans will share in all of the savings for the health care system, which includes insurance companies, the government and health care providers. Obama claims families will save $2,500 under his plan, but they won’t see at least some of those savings directly in the form of lower premiums. And they may not see them indirectly either.” (Factcheck.Org, http://www.factcheck.org, Accessed 6/16/08)
BARACK OBAMA’S PLAN WILL BURDEN BUSINESSES WITH A MANDATE AND IS VAGUE ABOUT WHICH ONES ARE EXEMPT
Barack Obama’s Health Care Plan Requires Employers To Provide Insurance Or Contribute A Percentage Of Their Payroll To The Public Plan:
Barack Obama’s Plan Includes Required Employer Coverage Similar To The Failed Clinton Mandate Of 1993. “Obama would require almost all employers to offer insurance to workers or face a tax penalty, an idea that many businesses abhor and that is also in Edwards’s proposal. This employer mandate drove much of the opposition to the Clinton plan in 1994.” (Anne E. Kornblut and Perry Bacon Jr., “Obama Says Washington Is Ready For Health Plan,” The Washington Post, 5/30/07)
• “In Addition, Mandated Employer Coverage Has Faced Fierce Opposition In The Past And Likely Will Again, [New America Foundation Len] Nichols Said.” (JoNel Aleccia, “Overhauling Health Care: Two Divergent Visions,” MSNBC News, http://www.msnbc.msn.com, 9/22/08)
Barack Obama Is Vague On The Specifics Small Businesses Have To Meet In Order To Be Exempt From His Employer Mandate:
Obama’s Campaign Has Not “Put Out A Specific Number” When Asked To Identify Which Small Businesses Would Qualify For The Small Business Exemption And Tax Credit. “Under Obama’s health plan, businesses over an unspecified size would have to either make a ‘meaningful contribution’ to their employees’ health coverage or else pay an undefined percentage of payroll towards the costs of the national plan. Obama has also promised ‘small businesses’ that he would provide them with a refundable tax credit worth up to 50 percent of what they contribute towards their employees’ health premiums. ‘We haven’t put out a specific number,’ said Jason Furman, Obama’s director of economic policy, when asked by ABC News to identify who would be covered by Obama’s small business exemption and health-care tax credit.” (Gregory Wallace and Teddy Davis, “Obama Fuzzy On ‘Small Business’ Exemption,” ABC’s “Political Radar” Blog, blogs.abcnews.com, 8/5/08)
Obama’s Campaign Has Not Laid Out Details About How Much The Play Or Pay Or Tax Would Be For Those Who Don’t Offer Health Insurance Or Which Small Businesses Are Exempt. “The campaign has not said how large the tax would be for businesses that opt not to offer insurance, or how small a business would have to be to be excluded from the requirement. If the payroll tax is too low, say 6 percent, many businesses will opt to pay it instead of offering insurance, sending their employees into the public program and boosting federal costs, he noted.” (JoNel Aleccia, “Overhauling Health Care: Two Divergent Visions,” MSNBC News, http://www.msnbc.msn.com, 9/22/08)
Obama’s Staff “Declined To Be More Specific” For The Philadelphia Inquirer About His Employer Mandate. “Under [Obama's] plan, employers either would give employees ‘meaningful’ insurance coverage or pay a percentage of payroll to provide coverage for the uninsured. His staff declined to be more specific.” (Stacey Burling, “Clinton, Obama Differ Slightly On Health Plans,” The Philadelphia Inquirer, 4/15/08)
BARACK OBAMA SAID HIS PLAN MAY LEAD TO A SINGLE-PAYER PLAN “OVER TIME”
Barack Obama Suggested His Health Care Plan Could Lead To A Single-Payer System “Over Time”:
Barack Obama Says His Health Care Plan Could Lead To Single-Payer System “Over Time.” Obama: “If I were designing a system from scratch, then I’d probably set up a single-payer system. … But the problem is we’re not starting from scratch. … Making that transition in a rapid way I think would be very difficult. … So my attitude is let’s build up the system we got, let’s make it more efficient, we may be over time — as we make the system more efficient and everybody’s cover — decide that there are other ways for us to provide care more effectively.” (Barack Obama, Remarks At A Campaign Event, Albuquerque, NM, 8/18/08)
Barack Obama Was A Self-Described “Proponent” Of Single-Payer Health Care, But Later Backtracked:
Barack Obama Was A “Proponent Of A Single-Payer Health Care Program” And Said It Could Happen If Democrats Occupied The White House And A Majority In Congress. Obama: “I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. A single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. And as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, we have to take back the House.” (Barack Obama, Remarks At AFL-CIO Forum, Chicago, IL, 6/30/03)
In 2008, Barack Obama Said He Would Only Support A Single-Payer System If “Starting From Scratch.” Obama: “[I] never said that we should try to go ahead and get single payer. What I said was that if I were starting from scratch, if we didn’t have a system in which employers had typically provided health care, I would probably go with a single-payer system.” (Barack Obama, CNN/Congressional Black Caucus Democrat Presidential Candidates Debate, Myrtle Beach, SC, 1/21/08)
KEY DEMOCRATS DOUBT THAT BARACK OBAMA’S PLAN WILL PASS
Senate Democrats Are Already Raising Doubts About The Likelihood That The Obama Plan Will Pass:
Senior Congressional Democrats Are “Maneuvering To Lower Public Expectations” Of Barack Obama’s Health Care Promises. “Congressional Democrats are backing away from healthcare reform promises made by their two presidential candidates, saying that even if their party controls the White House and Congress, sweeping change will be difficult. It is still seven months before Election Day, but already senior Democrats are maneuvering to lower public expectations on the key policy issue.” (Manu Raju, “Dems Hedge On Healthcare,” The Hill, 4/23/08)
Barack Obama’s Promises To Deliver Universal Care On The Campaign Trail “May Not Match The Political Reality On Capitol Hill.” “For some senators, the promises made by Sens. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) and Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) outside of Washington may not match the political reality on Capitol Hill.” (Manu Raju, “Dems Hedge On Healthcare,” The Hill, 4/23/08)
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 2:53 pm 2:53 pm
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) On The Obama Health Care Plan: “We all know there is not enough money to do all this stuff. . What they are doing is…laying out their ambitions.” (Manu Raju, “Dems Hedge On Healthcare,” The Hill, 4/23/08)
Sen. Chuck Schumer Questions If The U.S. Is “Ready For A Major National Heath Care Plan.” “Sen. Charles Schumer (N.Y.), a member of Senate Democratic leadership and a key Hillary Clinton ally who also sits on the Finance Committee, said he is ‘not sure we have the big plan on healthcare. … Healthcare I feel strongly about, but I am not sure that we’re ready for a major national healthcare plan,’ Schumer said.” (Manu Raju, “Dems Hedge On Healthcare,” The Hill, 4/23/08)
IN ILLINOIS, OBAMA HAD A “PERFECT VOTING RECORD” IN FAVOR OF STATE MANDATES
In Illinois, Barack Obama Had A “Perfect Voting Record” On Insurance Mandates That Are Now In Place In Illinois And Have Increased The Cost Of Health Care In Illinois:
“Obama Voted For All” Of The 18 Insurance Mandates That Passed During His Time As A State Senator. “Today, the requirement is one of 43 mandates imposed by Illinois on health insurance, according to the Illinois Division of Insurance. … By my count, during Mr. Obama’s tenure in the state Senate, 18 different laws came up for a vote and passed that imposed new mandates on private health insurance. Mr. Obama voted for all of them.” (Scott Gottlieb, Op-Ed, “Obama’s Health Care Record,” The Wall Street Journal, 5/5/08)
According To American Enterprise Institute’s Scott Gottlieb, Barack Obama Had A “Perfect Voting Record” On Enacting State Mandates That Have Increased Insurance Costs. Gottlieb: “The fact is that about 18 in all, bills came up – public acts came up that would impose new mandates on private insurance plans about things they had to cover and [Obama] voted for all of them. He had a perfect voting record. We know as a matter of policy, these state mandates end up increasing cost. Many of them are pushed by special minutes the states. In the case of dental anesthesia, pushed by the dentists, this is far more complicated dental procedures. Nonetheless, these are things that people may be willing to fund out of pocket or partially pay for. By mandating them, insurance companies need to cover the cost, it ends up increasing the cost of health insurance and cost of basic policies which in many cases is all people can afford.” (CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” 5/6/08)
Barack Obama “Clearly” Did Not Stand Up To Special Interest In Illinois By Consistently Voting In Favor Of Insurance Mandates. Gottlieb: “[B]arack Obama was hardly alone for voting for state mandates. In fairness, they have become less popular because a lot of states are realizing they do increase the cost of health insurance. But he’s out on the campaign trail talking about his willingness to stand up to special interests in order to control costs. In the state of Illinois, he clearly didn’t do that. He voted for all of these state mandates. In fact, he voted for a lot of additional insurance regulation, some of which we didn’t count because we didn’t feel it fit the mold of what you call a mandate. If you include the insurance regulation he voted for, voting record was 21 out of 21 public acts that came up.” (CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” 5/6/08
Barack Obama’s Health Care Record
ARLINGTON, VA — With Barack Obama lying about John McCain’s health care plan today, please find below the facts about Barack Obama’s health care record:
BARACK OBAMA RECENTLY ACKNOWLEDGED HIS PLAN WILL COST AT LEAST $150 BILLION A YEAR
Despite What He Claimed Today, Barack Obama Recently Said His Plan Will Cost At Least $150 Billion, Despite Earlier Claims That It Will Cost Much Less:
Barack Obama Said On “60 Minutes” That His Plan Would Cost At Least $150 Billion. CBS’ Steve Kroft: “How much is it going to cost? $150 billion it’s going to cost, right?” Obama: “It is. It is. But we pay for every dime that we propose to spend. I believe in pay as you go. That if you want to propose a new program, you better cut some old ones. If you want to expand a program, then you better figure out where the money’s coming from.” (CBS’ “60 Minutes,” 9/21/08)
Previously, Barack Obama Said His Plan Will Save The Average Person $2,500 Per Year And Will Cost Taxpayers Between $50-$65 Billion Per Year. “Obama said his plan could save the average consumer $2,500 a year and bring health care to all. Campaign aides estimated the cost of the program at $50 billion to $65 billion a year, financed largely by eliminating tax cuts for the wealthy that are scheduled to expire.” (Mike Glover, “The Time Has Come For Universal, Affordable Health Care, Obama Says,” The Associated Press, 5/29/07)
BARACK OBAMA’S CLAIM THAT HIS PLAN SAVES FAMILIES $2,500 IS BASED ON “MISLEADING MATH”
There Is “Zero Credible Evidence” That The Obama Plan Will Lower The Costs Insurance Premiums By $2,500, Which Is Based Off Of “Misleading Math”:
Obama’s Pledge To Lower Health Care Premiums By $2,500 In His First Term “Is A Matter Of Considerable Dispute” Among Experts. “In speech after speech, Senator Barack Obama has pledged that he will lower the country’s health care costs enough to ‘bring down premiums by $2,500 for the typical family.’ Moreover, Mr. Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee, has promised that his health plan will be in place ‘by the end of my first term as president of the United States.’ Whether Mr. Obama can deliver is a matter of considerable dispute among health analysts and economists.” (Kevin Sack, “Obstacles For Obama In Meeting Health Care Goal,” The New York Times, 7/23/08)
A Health Policy Professor At The University Of North Carolina-Chapel Hill Said The Savings In The Obama Plan Are “Wishful Thinking.” “Jonathan B. Oberlander, who teaches health policy at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, called it wishful thinking. ‘Do they have the potential to generate significant savings in the long run?’ Dr. Oberlander asked. ‘Yes. Do I believe they will produce substantial savings in the short run that can be used to finance Obama’s plan? No.’” (Kevin Sack, “Obstacles For Obama In Meeting Health Care Goal,” The New York Times, 7/23/08)
M.I.T.’s Jonathan Gruber Said That There Is “Zero Credible Evidence” That The Obama Plan Will Save The Average Family On The Costs Of Insurance Premiums. “Experts also are skeptical of both [Obama and Clinton's] claims that their plans will reduce the cost of insurance for the typical family by $2,000 or more. ‘I know zero credible evidence to support that conclusion,’ says M.I.T’s Jonathan Gruber.” (Factcheck.org Website, http://www.factcheck.org, Accessed 6/9/08)
Factcheck.Org Said Obama’s Claim That His Plan Will Cut Insurance Premium Costs By $2,500 Is “A Bit Of Misleading Math.” “That’s a bit of misleading math. It assumes individual Americans will share in all of the savings for the health care system, which includes insurance companies, the government and health care providers. Obama claims families will save $2,500 under his plan, but they won’t see at least some of those savings directly in the form of lower premiums. And they may not see them indirectly either.” (Factcheck.Org, http://www.factcheck.org, Accessed 6/16/08)
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 2:54 pm 2:54 pm
BARACK OBAMA’S PLAN WILL BURDEN BUSINESSES WITH A MANDATE AND IS VAGUE ABOUT WHICH ONES ARE EXEMPT
Barack Obama’s Health Care Plan Requires Employers To Provide Insurance Or Contribute A Percentage Of Their Payroll To The Public Plan:
Barack Obama’s Plan Includes Required Employer Coverage Similar To The Failed Clinton Mandate Of 1993. “Obama would require almost all employers to offer insurance to workers or face a tax penalty, an idea that many businesses abhor and that is also in Edwards’s proposal. This employer mandate drove much of the opposition to the Clinton plan in 1994.” (Anne E. Kornblut and Perry Bacon Jr., “Obama Says Washington Is Ready For Health Plan,” The Washington Post, 5/30/07)
• “In Addition, Mandated Employer Coverage Has Faced Fierce Opposition In The Past And Likely Will Again, [New America Foundation Len] Nichols Said.” (JoNel Aleccia, “Overhauling Health Care: Two Divergent Visions,” MSNBC News, http://www.msnbc.msn.com, 9/22/08)
Barack Obama Is Vague On The Specifics Small Businesses Have To Meet In Order To Be Exempt From His Employer Mandate:
Obama’s Campaign Has Not “Put Out A Specific Number” When Asked To Identify Which Small Businesses Would Qualify For The Small Business Exemption And Tax Credit. “Under Obama’s health plan, businesses over an unspecified size would have to either make a ‘meaningful contribution’ to their employees’ health coverage or else pay an undefined percentage of payroll towards the costs of the national plan. Obama has also promised ‘small businesses’ that he would provide them with a refundable tax credit worth up to 50 percent of what they contribute towards their employees’ health premiums. ‘We haven’t put out a specific number,’ said Jason Furman, Obama’s director of economic policy, when asked by ABC News to identify who would be covered by Obama’s small business exemption and health-care tax credit.” (Gregory Wallace and Teddy Davis, “Obama Fuzzy On ‘Small Business’ Exemption,” ABC’s “Political Radar” Blog, blogs.abcnews.com, 8/5/08)
Obama’s Campaign Has Not Laid Out Details About How Much The Play Or Pay Or Tax Would Be For Those Who Don’t Offer Health Insurance Or Which Small Businesses Are Exempt. “The campaign has not said how large the tax would be for businesses that opt not to offer insurance, or how small a business would have to be to be excluded from the requirement. If the payroll tax is too low, say 6 percent, many businesses will opt to pay it instead of offering insurance, sending their employees into the public program and boosting federal costs, he noted.” (JoNel Aleccia, “Overhauling Health Care: Two Divergent Visions,” MSNBC News, http://www.msnbc.msn.com, 9/22/08)
Obama’s Staff “Declined To Be More Specific” For The Philadelphia Inquirer About His Employer Mandate. “Under [Obama's] plan, employers either would give employees ‘meaningful’ insurance coverage or pay a percentage of payroll to provide coverage for the uninsured. His staff declined to be more specific.” (Stacey Burling, “Clinton, Obama Differ Slightly On Health Plans,” The Philadelphia Inquirer, 4/15/08)
BARACK OBAMA SAID HIS PLAN MAY LEAD TO A SINGLE-PAYER PLAN “OVER TIME”
Barack Obama Suggested His Health Care Plan Could Lead To A Single-Payer System “Over Time”:
Barack Obama Says His Health Care Plan Could Lead To Single-Payer System “Over Time.” Obama: “If I were designing a system from scratch, then I’d probably set up a single-payer system. … But the problem is we’re not starting from scratch. … Making that transition in a rapid way I think would be very difficult. … So my attitude is let’s build up the system we got, let’s make it more efficient, we may be over time — as we make the system more efficient and everybody’s cover — decide that there are other ways for us to provide care more effectively.” (Barack Obama, Remarks At A Campaign Event, Albuquerque, NM, 8/18/08)
Barack Obama Was A Self-Described “Proponent” Of Single-Payer Health Care, But Later Backtracked:
Barack Obama Was A “Proponent Of A Single-Payer Health Care Program” And Said It Could Happen If Democrats Occupied The White House And A Majority In Congress. Obama: “I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. A single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. And as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, we have to take back the House.” (Barack Obama, Remarks At AFL-CIO Forum, Chicago, IL, 6/30/03)
In 2008, Barack Obama Said He Would Only Support A Single-Payer System If “Starting From Scratch.” Obama: “[I] never said that we should try to go ahead and get single payer. What I said was that if I were starting from scratch, if we didn’t have a system in which employers had typically provided health care, I would probably go with a single-payer system.” (Barack Obama, CNN/Congressional Black Caucus Democrat Presidential Candidates Debate, Myrtle Beach, SC, 1/21/08)
KEY DEMOCRATS DOUBT THAT BARACK OBAMA’S PLAN WILL PASS
Senate Democrats Are Already Raising Doubts About The Likelihood That The Obama Plan Will Pass:
Senior Congressional Democrats Are “Maneuvering To Lower Public Expectations” Of Barack Obama’s Health Care Promises. “Congressional Democrats are backing away from healthcare reform promises made by their two presidential candidates, saying that even if their party controls the White House and Congress, sweeping change will be difficult. It is still seven months before Election Day, but already senior Democrats are maneuvering to lower public expectations on the key policy issue.” (Manu Raju, “Dems Hedge On Healthcare,” The Hill, 4/23/08)
Barack Obama’s Promises To Deliver Universal Care On The Campaign Trail “May Not Match The Political Reality On Capitol Hill.” “For some senators, the promises made by Sens. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) and Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) outside of Washington may not match the political reality on Capitol Hill.” (Manu Raju, “Dems Hedge On Healthcare,” The Hill, 4/23/08)
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) On The Obama Health Care Plan: “We all know there is not enough money to do all this stuff. . What they are doing is…laying out their ambitions.” (Manu Raju, “Dems Hedge On Healthcare,” The Hill, 4/23/08)
Sen. Chuck Schumer Questions If The U.S. Is “Ready For A Major National Heath Care Plan.” “Sen. Charles Schumer (N.Y.), a member of Senate Democratic leadership and a key Hillary Clinton ally who also sits on the Finance Committee, said he is ‘not sure we have the big plan on healthcare. … Healthcare I feel strongly about, but I am not sure that we’re ready for a major national healthcare plan,’ Schumer said.” (Manu Raju, “Dems Hedge On Healthcare,” The Hill, 4/23/08)
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 2:55 pm 2:55 pm
IN ILLINOIS, OBAMA HAD A “PERFECT VOTING RECORD” IN FAVOR OF STATE MANDATES
In Illinois, Barack Obama Had A “Perfect Voting Record” On Insurance Mandates That Are Now In Place In Illinois And Have Increased The Cost Of Health Care In Illinois:
“Obama Voted For All” Of The 18 Insurance Mandates That Passed During His Time As A State Senator. “Today, the requirement is one of 43 mandates imposed by Illinois on health insurance, according to the Illinois Division of Insurance. … By my count, during Mr. Obama’s tenure in the state Senate, 18 different laws came up for a vote and passed that imposed new mandates on private health insurance. Mr. Obama voted for all of them.” (Scott Gottlieb, Op-Ed, “Obama’s Health Care Record,” The Wall Street Journal, 5/5/08)
According To American Enterprise Institute’s Scott Gottlieb, Barack Obama Had A “Perfect Voting Record” On Enacting State Mandates That Have Increased Insurance Costs. Gottlieb: “The fact is that about 18 in all, bills came up – public acts came up that would impose new mandates on private insurance plans about things they had to cover and [Obama] voted for all of them. He had a perfect voting record. We know as a matter of policy, these state mandates end up increasing cost. Many of them are pushed by special minutes the states. In the case of dental anesthesia, pushed by the dentists, this is far more complicated dental procedures. Nonetheless, these are things that people may be willing to fund out of pocket or partially pay for. By mandating them, insurance companies need to cover the cost, it ends up increasing the cost of health insurance and cost of basic policies which in many cases is all people can afford.” (CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” 5/6/08)
Barack Obama “Clearly” Did Not Stand Up To Special Interest In Illinois By Consistently Voting In Favor Of Insurance Mandates. Gottlieb: “[B]arack Obama was hardly alone for voting for state mandates. In fairness, they have become less popular because a lot of states are realizing they do increase the cost of health insurance. But he’s out on the campaign trail talking about his willingness to stand up to special interests in order to control costs. In the state of Illinois, he clearly didn’t do that. He voted for all of these state mandates. In fact, he voted for a lot of additional insurance regulation, some of which we didn’t count because we didn’t feel it fit the mold of what you call a mandate. If you include the insurance regulation he voted for, voting record was 21 out of 21 public acts that came up.” (CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” 5/6/08
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 2:55 pm 2:55 pm
HP Boston, read between the lines a bit on the ACORN story. The first observation I would make is that I much prefer an organization that is working toward enfranchisement than the Republican tactics of trying to disenfranchise American voters. Which is worse, some Americans illegally receiving the right to vote, or Americans illegally being deprived of the right to vote. As for between the lines, look at what the organization said: We try to find improper registrations and regularly hand these over to authorities, but they didn’t act on our information and now are pulling a stunt. That is probably true. Who controls the secretary of state office? Republicans, and I assure you they want to stop ACORN from their voter registration drive because it is aimed at enfranchising who? The lower economic class that Republicans have schemed to disenfranchise in the last several elections. The Republicans have a system of voter “caging” and “purging”, organized systems to eliminate voters. That comes back to my point: I would rather an organization is enfranchising the lower class rather than disenfranchising them. The secretary of state never marches into those offices and seizes ANYTHING, but that’s because they work for the disenfranchisers. You know what, even the laws that stop felons from voting for life is WRONG. My roommate in college got set up buying a bag of weed and was charged with a felony. A great guy, smart, good heart, a GOOD AMERICAN, and he can’t vote for life? WTF? Quit complaining and blaming a grassroots organization that does its best to help Americans become better Americans by registering them to vote, quit pointing that moral finger at felons while stealing their rights, and start to think about the lesser of evils– a mentality that is about enfranchisement rather than disenfranchisement.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 3:05 pm 3:05 pm
Lets roll: How about not? How about you roll on out of here with your annoying cut and paste spamming? Look, make a personal statement like you aren’t some spambot, and simply supply the ling to your boring long spielbook that NOBODY is going toread because it is annoying spam that is inappropriate to a discussion forum such as this. Get a clue lets roll OUT.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 3:09 pm 3:09 pm
The Facts about the McCain-Palin Health Care Plan
Barack Obama And Joe Biden Have Consistently Lied To Americans About John McCain’s Plan. Their claims have failed every fact-check – from CBS to the Washington Post. John McCain is not going to raise taxes on middle class families. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are the only ones in this race that plan to raise taxes.
Transforming The Tax Code To Create Greater Equity: The McCain plan transforms the current tax code to provide all American families – including the self-employed and the uninsured – the same tax benefit, a $5,000 refundable tax credit ($2,500 for individuals) that was previously only available to those with employer coverage. Families can use this credit to purchase insurance of their choice, including keeping their current coverage. This is an approach supported by Barack Obama’s own Senior Economic Advisor Jason Furman who wrote that “we could scrap the current deduction altogether and replace it with progressive tax credits that, together with other changes, would ensure that every American has affordable health insurance.”
Better Than “Members of Congress”: Under the McCain Plan, your employer can provide you with health insurance as good as a “Member of Congress”, and you would pay no more in taxes – regardless of your tax bracket. In fact, you would have some additional money left over from the McCain tax credit to put in a health savings account.
On The Issue Of Congressional Plan – There Are Options, But All Are Under The FEHB Program: A good example is the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Service Benefit Plan, which has combined monthly premiums for family coverage of $1027.95, for an annual cost of $12,335.40.
Income Tax Liability McCain-Palin
Tax Credit Total Tax Savings
10% Bracket
(Up to $15,000)
$1,200 ($12,000 x 10%) $5,000 +$3,800
15% Bracket ($15,650 – $63,700)
$1,800 ($12,000 x 15%) $5,000 +$3,200
25% Bracket ($63,700 – $128,500)
$3,000 ($12,000 x 25%) $5,000 +$2,000
28% Bracket ($128,500 – $195,850)
$3,360 ($12,000 x 28%) $5,000 +$1,640
33% Bracket ($195,850 – $349,700)
$3,960 ($12,000 x 33%) $5,000 +$1,040
35% Bracket ($349,700 and Over)
$4,200 ($12,000 x 35%) $5,000 +$800
Where Is The Middle-Class “Tax Increase”? If you or your family is in the 28% bracket, with an income of $180,000, you could receive employer provided health insurance even better than a Member of Congress, with a cost of almost $18,000, with no increase in taxes. Even the liberal leaning Tax Policy Center, agrees that the McCain proposals will result in a “net tax benefit” of more than $1,200 for an average tax payer.
Helping Those Without Employer Coverage: If you are a middle-class American today without employer provided health care, the McCain plan would give you a tax credit of $2,500 as an individual, or $5,000 for a family, to help you buy your own health insurance coverage, including across state lines. American families – not government bureaucrats or insurance companies – will choose the coverage that best meets their needs. Today, the government does nothing to help you. Why does Barack Obama oppose this?
McCain Health Plan Puts Families in Charge: In another desperate attack, Barack Obama and Joe Biden have said that McCain health care tax credits to help families buy coverage “will go straight to the insurance company.” Here is what they fail to mention – the credit goes to the insurance company that the American family chooses to get coverage from, anywhere in the nation. The power of choice lies with the family – not government bureaucrats or insurance companies. Ridiculing this line of strange attack, The Associated Press stated, “Of course it would, because it’s meant to pay for insurance. That’s like saying money for a car loan will go straight to the car dealer.” Furthermore, any additional money left over after purchasing coverage will be controlled by the family in a portable health savings account.
McCain Health Care Plan Protects Our Vulnerable Population: John McCain believes that no American should be denied access to quality and affordable coverage simply because of a pre-existing condition. As President, John McCain will work with governors to develop a best practice model that states can follow – a Guaranteed Access Plan or GAP – that would reflect the best experience of the states to ensure these patients have access to health coverage. There would be reasonable limits on premiums, and assistance would be available for Americans below a certain income level.
McCain Health Care Plan Gives American Families More Choices: John McCain believes that American families should be given more choices by allowing them to purchase policies across state lines. In a move derided by fact checking organizations including Fact Check, the Obama campaign used this as an opportunity to falsely accuse John McCain of deregulating health care markets akin to Wall Street. A recent study showed that simply allowing Americans to purchase across state lines would reduce the number of uninsured by almost 12 million.
McCain Health Care Plan Preserves Employer Coverage: The McCain health plan builds on the employer-based system. Employers will have the same incentive to provide health insurance as they do today since they will continue to deduct the cost of health insurance they provide to employees. Nothing will change. In addition, payroll taxes will be protected from taxes under the McCain plan. Millions of American families with employer sponsored coverage in all tax brackets with the same coverage as a “Members of Congress” will now come out ahead with additional funds going into a portable health savings account. Importantly, younger and healthier employees with the McCain health care tax credit will have a bigger incentive to stay with the employers. For example, a 25-year-old employee in the 25 percent tax bracket with a $2,500 tax credit could either purchase a policy in the individual market for the same amount or stay with his employer plan and receive a $5,000 policy with an additional $1,250 to invest in a portable health savings account. Why would people choose worse insurance and less money? Finally, the McCain plan through comprehensive cost-containment policies addresses the single biggest threat to employer coverage – rising costs.
The Truth about the Obama Health Care Plan:
Barack Obama’s Plan Continues The Push Toward Government-Run Healthcare: The Obama plan will create a brand new government-run health plan at the cost of $243 billion a year – a financial burden of more than $3,000 a year on American families.
Barack Obama’s Plan Will Harm Employer Coverage: The Obama plan includes a $179 billion a year employer mandate. The mandate requires employers to either provide “meaningful” coverage or pay a tax towards the government plan. Faced with tough economic conditions and rising health costs this creates a clear incentive for employers to drop coverage and move families into the new government plan. A Lewin Group study which examined a similar employer mandate combined with a national plan, like the Obama plan, concluded that almost 52 million individuals would lose their private employer coverage. To maintain their competitive edge, others employers will follow – spelling the demise of the employer coverage system.
Barack Obama’s Plan Will Damage Private Coverage: The government-run plan will have a clear advantage over private insurance since it will be subsidized by American taxpayers. A recent analysis of both plans by the nonpartisan CATO Institute concluded that the Obama government-run plan will be able to “keep its premiums artificially low…since it can turn to the U.S. Treasury to cover any shortfalls” resulting in “undercutting the private market.” According to Wall Street Journal, the goal of the Obama plan “…like HillaryCare in the 1990s, is to displace current private coverage and switch people to the default government option.”
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 3:15 pm 3:15 pm
Something really strange I noticed today. I went to fox and looked at their comments on a political story, and overwhelmingly people were slamming McCain and the Republicans, then I look here and see overwhelmingly people slamming Obama and the Dems, yet Fox is supposed to be right wing (and it is), while ABC is constantly accused of being left wing (and it is not, though it is not right wing). How come we have traded spaces and places, here? Will you guys attacking Obama please go home to your FUX News site and pat each other on the backs over there? Please?
Posted by: Alex | October 7, 2008, 3:16 pm 3:16 pm
This is a room of factual discussion right, so there it is, read and enjoy reality, eddy boy!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 3:17 pm 3:17 pm
Lets roll, you really really really really really really really really (etc until this is a two foot long column)
SUCK
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 3:18 pm 3:18 pm
Rollerboy, yes this is a room of factual discussion. Shall I publish the entire GD congressional record for you? I explained it to you once already, spampunk, write your own ideas about things and link to your Melvillian factbooks, ok?
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 3:20 pm 3:20 pm
Look, I can go to the McCain website to read your crap, so don’t subject this forum to that. Hey, why don’t you paste the entire damned McCain website here, and then this would just be the McCain site. Just like a fanatical neocon, has to transform the entire world into how he demands it must be, rather than actually holding an honest discussion about anything.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 3:24 pm 3:24 pm
Bush can’t run up anything…Congress controls the money. And, seeing how the Dems were letting two GSE giants go without oversight, this is the mess we get. And the wimpy Republicans that sat by and let it happen need to be voted out along with Pelosi, Dodd, Frank and the rest of those knuckleheads.
At least McCain tried to do something about it years ago, but was thwarted because Fannie and Freddie were (are?) the Socialists’ darlings.
I don’t see the point of putting someone in charge of a foundering ship who wants to give everybody free water. Obama’s a sit and wait coward from the word go. He’s all about himself and his Marxist principles.
Anybody stop to think about how the Socialists aren’t all too upset about all this-only some conservative Democrats and Republicans had the wherewithal to fight against simply handing over a gazillion dollars to some companies who are run by crooks?
Funny that those Republicans were lambasted by Frank and Pelosi for not going along with the original piece of garbage legislation, but yet the polls favor the Democrats? What tha…??? Are people really that clueless?
Socialists know from history that to start a new society you have to burn down the old one.
BTW, heard that the AIG execs celebrated the bailout with a half million $ vacation. The word that came to my mind was “lynching”.
Posted by: Grand Old Party | October 7, 2008, 3:27 pm 3:27 pm
Edward, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waa waa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 3:29 pm 3:29 pm
Grand Old Party, excellent point and well said, props.
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 3:32 pm 3:32 pm
Edward, is that good enough for ya, you liberal cry baby, LOL.
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 3:32 pm 3:32 pm
Where’s McCain’s plan? How much will he cut spending? How many jobs does he estimate will be created with all the trickle down tax cuts he’s proposing? Bush’s adventures in Iraq and Republican spending policy, (Don’t forget that up until 2 years ago they controlled Congress and the purse strings)have meant record deficits. Republicans are into big government when it means a big WAR government and huge gifts to industry. Then it takes a Democrat, like it took Bill Clinton, to clean up the budget mess.
Posted by: Joel Miller | October 7, 2008, 3:33 pm 3:33 pm
As for factual reality, statistics don’t lie, people do. If I cared to (which I don’t) I could take apart your entire rightwing “factbook” and maim it from all the things it leaves out, the manipulation of the data and the points that say one thing when the opposite could easily be just as “true”. What that means is that it’s better to express a few fundamental idea or arguments here, and start at the base of things in a hsort and concise way, rather than producing some error-ridden analysis that some right-wing think tank concocted. And that’s another good point, rollerspambot: you didn’t write any ideas that were actually yours, you just swallowed some giant right-wing pill (or otherwise ingested it), and now you want to cram it down my throat (or otherwise force me to ingest it). Think for yourself, write ideas that are from yourself. But you know what, if you do that then your illiteracy and belligerence would become very obvious. You would just write a long series of meaningless slurs and epithets, because you don’t think, you swallow giant documents of disinformation and then say, “Yeah, what he said!!!!”
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 3:33 pm 3:33 pm
Now that is funny, while I was writing my message about what you would do, I posted it and sure enough, you had already started your brainless insults. Go back to FUX where people will thank you, I have no gratitude whatsoever for guys like you.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 3:35 pm 3:35 pm
I would like to ask you all to run this experiment and see if you agree: Read all these comments, or all the comments on any one of these political discussions, and make an overall estimation of the commenters by correlating their political affiliation with their level of education. I have done this on several occasions and I am convinced that there is a clear and obvious correlation that you can gather. You will see that the hardline McCain/Palin supporters are of a much lower educational level. They often use fallacious logic and do not write very well at all, misspell a lot of words and generally expose their lower level of education. In short, this is the extreme end of the dumber 52% that put Bush into a second term of office. I also noticed that most of the “Independents”, whether they are ultimately for McCain or Obama, write more intelligently and are more educated, as are the Republicans who say they just can’t go with the Republican ticket this year. Look and see if I am right. The only problem is that if you are not very well educated and can’t think very well, then you cannot actually do the analysis, I don’t think.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 3:49 pm 3:49 pm
Thanx, let’s roll…I agree somewhat, Joel. These Republicans up there and their big spending is a disgrace. Iraq-we had a guy who had tons of semi-processed uranium ore sitting around trying to find a way to purify it-even the U.N. was on to him. Better to complain about $ than to see yet another dictator with The Bomb.
I’m a Republican. I don’t like Marxist Liberals. Not that I have anything against Marx. The ‘ism’ doesn’t bother me as much as the ‘ists’. America is what Marx was dreaming about. We can solve our problems without welfare Socialism.
I don’t like the holier than thou Moral Majority types. I don’t like the smug, wise guy Young Republican types, either. But I do like hard working, patriotic Americans of any party, religion, whatever. As long as you’re down with the 200+ year program here, mind your own business while at the same time lending a helping hand to your Fellow Man, you’re OK with me.
This country is paved with gold. But, it seems every time you start to get ahead, the Liberals take over and start taxing you to death for their feel-good programs, or someone overseas wants to blow your stuff away-chutes and ladders, and I’m pretty sick of it.
I support McCain and Palin, because I believe they will put these fat cats on notice. Even if they lose, I appeal to you Republicans and Democrats out there to vote out these losers in Washington. I am harder on my own party. In my state I will be voting against Republicans in our state legislature because they’ve screwed up the budget so much while giving their wealthy buds tax breaks on stuff like box seats in stadiums.
However, I don’t support taxing corporations excessively-they’ll just pass those on to us, and stifle growth. I don’t feel sorry for the rich getting taxed, but we all complain about the $ getting concentrated in the hands of the few…why is concentrating it in Washington’s hands any better?
Rich folk can’t be made to hide their money under a mattress. They need to put it back into the economy, invest, etc. BUT-frivolity should NOT be tax sheltered.
$500-1000 handout from Obama and the Dems won’t do it. Capital needs to flow into the greater economy-not just into Wal-Mart’s hands and the oil companies.
Posted by: Grand Old Party | October 7, 2008, 4:01 pm 4:01 pm
As for factual reality, statistics don’t lie, people do. If I cared to (which I don’t) I could take apart your entire left-wing “factbook” and maim it from all the things it leaves out, the manipulation of the data and the points that say one thing when the opposite could easily be just as “true”. What that means is that it’s better to express a few fundamental idea’s or arguments here, and start at the base of things in a hsort and concise way, rather than producing some error-ridden analysis that some left-wing think tank concocted with nothing but rhetorical bs. And that’s another good point, liberal cry-baby-obambi: you didn’t make any sense with you’re lies and attacks, you just swallowed some giant socialist left-wing pill (or otherwise ingested it), and now you want to cram it down the American peoples throats (or otherwise force me to ingest it). Think for once, write ideas that are beneficial to the country, not a radical left-wing ideology. But you know what, if you do that then your illiteracy and belligerence would become very obvious. You would just write a long series of meaningless slurs and epithets, because that’s what liberal socialist do, you swallow giant lies of disinformation and then say, how can I lie and manipulate people’s minds!!!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 4:04 pm 4:04 pm
Man, let’s roll, you even steal my ideas. That’s plagiarism, dude, be careful you don’t get in trouble next time you hand in a college composition paper you copied off the internet. It’s kind of funny, I have a lot more in common with Grand Old Party, a Republican, than you have in common with him. In fact, he wrote that he doesn’t like the “smug, wise guy young Republican types”, he was talking about YOU.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 4:12 pm 4:12 pm
Grand Old Party, right on! As for myself, I’m a conservative with my morals, a moderate on the economy, and an Independent in my decisions. I will always stand up for myself and my beliefs, but as the founding fathers agreed to, not to cram one’s own personal views down one’s throat, but to lift the Country and others up, with honest ideas without resorting to just one’s sides opinions as being holier than thou or the only option. Debate, and do the right thing for the good of all people. Not just the few, a party, or the majority, but for all.
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 4:22 pm 4:22 pm
Edward, LOL! I already gadiated thank you. Just lighten up bro! You only live once.
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 4:24 pm 4:24 pm
But, Grand Old Party, I think we have seen clearly that trickle down economics does not work. We may need another FDR period to turn this problem around. There are ways for government to use redistribution in ways that actually stimulate economic growth. And another thing you might find surprising: several independent studies I came across during research (studies carried out by economics professors through their universities) all came to the same findings regarding social programs, including welfare programs. There was a positive correlation between money spent on such programs and economic growth (an increase in growth of about 5%). I was surprised by that, but then realized how it does make sense. Also, I found not one study that showed a negative correlation between social spending and economic growth. As Sally wrote above in this forum:
“YOU mean barack will actually will take money and fix education ,healthacre , infrastructure , energy .. things that create JOBS , what a NOVEL IDEA.
Instead of more going to companies and more WARS I would hope so.”
You see, even if you tax the rich and the money is redistributed to some poor guy in the ghetto, he goes and spends that money, he goes shopping, and that puts the money back into the system. I do not agree with making welfare a system that creates permanent dependency, and I think we can shape a system that encourages gainful employment even as it supports people and offers them retraining programs etc, so welfare has its place in our great nation. So does investment into education, free or reduced college tuition for low income families. All of these investments are not like spending all our tax money on building more laser guided missile systems, that money goes to The Carlysle Group and other big companies, and guess what they do? They go offshore and take the money out of our system. For example, Carlysle (run by the Bush and Bin Laden families) has been trying to get a foothold in China lately, or Halliburton is now based in Dubai. That kind of system does not help Americans, and we’d have been much better off to let the poor go shopping to stimulate consumer spending and economic growth.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 4:27 pm 4:27 pm
Lets roll, I seriously doubt if you already gadiated.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 4:28 pm 4:28 pm
Edward, wrong again. Grand Old Party was talking about the far right with their heads stuck up their a**. The one’s who would never come to the middle for the betterment of the Country is what he was talking about, which is exactly what your buddy Obama is, he will and has never came to the middle, he just stay’s on his party’s side. McCain has came to the middle plenty, Obama has not! I have no problems with Democrats, just liberal socialist communist! I’ve actually voted for Moderate and Conservative Democrats in the past, how ’bout you!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 4:32 pm 4:32 pm
Honestly, I wish Ron Paul had been the Republican candidate. I would have voted Republican for sure, and he might have even been able to win if the Republican base had supported him. Republicans have sold out on what being republicans should really mean, the neocons stole the party and now they are “Socialists” except they are socialists for the rich instead of the poor. I figure if I have to have big government and socialism, it is better to have it for the middle and lower classes than for the rich. Congress just passed the biggest Rich Socialism program in the history of our nation, so that does not incline me to favor big business, and I hope you will concede that the party of big business and wall street is the Republican party. The Fannie argument doesn’t hold water, it wasn’t actually the increased risk in loans that caused this, it was the repackaging of those loans into “derivatives” that a deregulated Wall Street conned onto the entire world. That banking and business deregulation came from the Republican party, of course, and McCain use to brag about being the biggest deregulator for business. Then there’s the whole outsourcing phenomenon, where business has again been on the receiving end of taxpayer money, whether it is through war or education, companies got all the tax money, and it did not trickle down.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 4:39 pm 4:39 pm
Lets Roll, I will not hold a conversation with you, you already acted like a moron with your cutnpaste spamming and your stupid LOL Waaaaaaaa wa waaaaaaa garbage, don’t try to go “intelligent” on me now, you’ve already convinced me you are an idiot.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 4:41 pm 4:41 pm
Edward-Obviously the best way to govern in this country lies with neither extreme, but a hybrid of both. Democrats and Republicans should argue details-not completely different visions of America. There are extremists on both sides, though, sounding partisan, the Left seems to be pretty darn loud since, oh, I don’t, know…1968 or so?
If you want to build a factory, it takes concentrated wealth (capital) to do that. But, if the workers are living hand to mouth, then who’s going to buy the product?
I have no problem with taxes, because we need to build our infrastructure-I do have a problem with the coercion and Gestapo tactics of the IRS. I lean towards a national sales tax, and renegotiating these trade agreements, so that more reasonable tariffs can be invoked according to our Constitution.
Reasonable taxes on businesses so that they can expand, invest, hire, and bank money that can then be used as credit (trickle down).
And, lower income taxes so that the average citizen can spend and invest more (bubble up). I think it’s pretty clear that with lower tax rates there is actually more $ coming into the treasury. Modest tax rate increases in good economic times isn’t such a bad thing, either…but in bad times, it makes no sense to increase taxes-just the way I see it.
I also don’t have a problem with sharing some of our collective wealth with those who are truly incapable of working, or those who are unemployed and need assistance. I also favor a cap based on income concerning major medical bills and the guarantee of reasonable payments over time. These hospitals and insurance companies are ridiculous-even doctors aren’t making as much as they should be because of them.
Posted by: Grand Old Party | October 7, 2008, 4:42 pm 4:42 pm
Edward, redistribution through taxation does not work! FDR could not enforce taxation that extreme because of the severe financial situation. FDR’s redistribution was through job creation from Government financial support to companies to create jobs, with welfare to families for food and to help with bills. And for many years it was rough for everybody. FDR was mainly a liberal through environmental views, which change dramatically due to WW2. You see, he looked beyond his own personal views, and even went against his party’s opinions on taxes and the War, for the betterment of the Country. WW2 was actually a blessing in disguise, because while the men went to war, the rest of the Country went to work with the jobs created due to the military demand for equipment and supplies. GOD Bless our Veterans(and our active Troops)along with Rosie the Riveter! That’s the kind of United sense we need to find again!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 4:49 pm 4:49 pm
Let me modify one opinion because I feel certain about it: If the Republican base had supported Ron Paul, he WOULD have won. He had the answers, he already said we were heading for meltdown and had the plan to get us back to small government, and we would have seen the Constitution restored to its rightful and holy place in our nation. Ron Paul would have won for many reasons. He had a very enthusiastic following that would have gone mainstream if he had gotten a major party like the Republicans behind him. He would have ended the wars as well. The saddest part to me is that the Republicans turned their back on their best and most viable candidate, and even worse, I think many would prefer Obama to win than to put Ron Paul in. That should tell us something about how much the rich and big business controls our political machinery, in BOTH parties, like all we gots left to drink is Poke because one company owns both Pepsi and Coke. The same people in the background probably control both parties, which is why we get quick agreements on bailouts that went to the rich.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 4:54 pm 4:54 pm
Edward, you see, arrogant liberal views always think their right, with nothing to back it up! Just personal slams and attacks of people like you thinking you’re GOD’s gift to the world. Grand Old Party was actually talking about people like you being SMUG!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 4:54 pm 4:54 pm
Time for the debate, out.
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 4:54 pm 4:54 pm
Edward, you see, i didn’t attack you, just did something to make you mad, and you won’t debate now, LOL. Typical liberal, you are what’s wrong with this Country, not wanting to put differences aside a talk.
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 5:00 pm 5:00 pm
Exuse me for the typo ed.
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 5:01 pm 5:01 pm
Grand Old Party, I appreciate your considered opinions. You see, too many times these forums become either giant cut and paste sessions, or people just make dumb insults based on party loyalties that simply divide us. I have to say I watched a few Palin and McCain rallies, and they are the great dividers. They are only using fear and division to try to gain control over the nation, and I despise that. I just saw McCain slamming Obama because he is a “Chicago Politician” as though that is a dirty word or something, Palin was using the same divide and conquer tactics on the same day, plus using false patriotism to try and rally the idgits. Go and watch a few and see if you hear what I heard, a difference between the cheers of the audience. One audience cheers with this anger and hatred that energizes it, while the other crowd seems to cheer more from feeling hope. That was the distinct impression I got today as I watched the two sides. I am definitely not a blind follower of Obama, but I do believe he will be better for my entire country, and also for its image abroad.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 5:03 pm 5:03 pm
I think he has a point-Ron Paul would probably be ahead in the polls right now. Actually, I agree with a lot of Ron Paul’s positions such as the citizens of states deciding issues like abortion, drug legalization, etc. Like the Rebel Flag controversies-let the People of the state vote on it…what a concept!
But, Ron Paul strikes me as isolationist concerning foreign policy. Sometimes you need to do the Teddy Roosevelt Big Stick thing sometimes I’m afraid.
But, I do like McCain’s more moderate image in general and his stance of reform regardless of political affiliation. Plus, he strikes me as tough on foreign enemies. Immigration and drilling-mmmm, not so enamored there.
Posted by: Grand Old Party | October 7, 2008, 5:04 pm 5:04 pm
By the way, under Bush taxes for the lower and middle classes went UP, while taxes on the rich and on corporations went DOWN. That doesn’t seem like what the average Republican would want, so I am kind of curious as to why they would vote Republican.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 5:07 pm 5:07 pm
Ron Paul was arguing for diplomacy and developing good relations with countries that were capable of doing so, and I believe he would have used a Big Stick if the situation warranted it, but he wouldn’t lie just to get to use his big stick. There is a lot to be said for diplomacy, it is something Bush was never willing to do. They set an agenda to invade Iraq, then it pretty much went unilaterally. If we had not invaded Iraq, yes Hussein would probably still be there, but the UN inspectors had better intelligence (or perhaps intelligence that the White House did not get to distort) and Hussein in fact did not have any dangerous programs for his neighbors, nor did he like Al Qaeda and in fact sought them out for incarceration or death. The Big Stick is important, but we seem to have forgotten the first part of that Roosevelt motto: Walk softly. We’ve been stomping everywhere too much.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 5:13 pm 5:13 pm
“My government is my worst enemy. I’m going to fight them with any means at hand.”
This was former revolutionary terrorist Bill Ayers back in his old Weather Underground days, right? Imagine what Sarah Palin is going to do with this incendiary quote as she tears into Barack Obama this week.
Only one problem. The quote is from Joe Vogler, the raging anti-American who founded the Alaska Independence Party. Inconveniently for Palin, that’s the very same secessionist party that her husband, Todd, belonged to for seven years and that she sent a shout-out to as Alaska governor earlier this year. “Keep up the good work,” Palin told AIP members. “And God bless you.”
Posted by: joe six pack | October 7, 2008, 5:17 pm 5:17 pm
Blacks are savages and Obama isn’t qualified to be President because Africans aren’t civilized.
Posted by: Let's Roll | October 7, 2008, 5:19 pm 5:19 pm
Republicans are the worst people in America. Total scum.
Posted by: Independent Voter | October 7, 2008, 5:21 pm 5:21 pm
A national sales tax seems to work ok here in Europe (VAT – Value Added Tax), but I always liked the way I didn’t have to pay 20% more in government taxes for every damned thing I buy. I think that reduces economic growth more than taxing the rich. They are never taxed so much that they can’t concentrate enough capital to build a factory, as you say, but 20% on everyone causes less purchasing power and lower consumer spending.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 5:21 pm 5:21 pm
Let’s roll is a racist idiot who posts Republican lies. Don’t believe his crap!
Posted by: Independent Voter | October 7, 2008, 5:22 pm 5:22 pm
I’m curious Let’s Roll, did you really write this, or did someone steal your name: “Blacks are savages and Obama isn’t qualified to be President because Africans aren’t civilized.” Even though I believe you are an idiot, I don’t believe you are THAT big of an idiot.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 5:24 pm 5:24 pm
Isn’t there the debate going on tonight there in the U.S.? What time does the debate happen there?
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 5:27 pm 5:27 pm
I bet it’s going on right now, I have never seen it where just three people are chatting on one of these forums. Everybody is watching the debate, maybe?
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 5:28 pm 5:28 pm
McCain is a fu**ing f@g and will suck dong instead of do his job in office.
Posted by: Independent Voter | October 7, 2008, 5:34 pm 5:34 pm
Independent Voter is a homophobic idiot who posts Democratic lies. Don’t believe his crap!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 5:36 pm 5:36 pm
Yah … you betcha … by golly … doggone it …say it ain’t so [6-pack] Joe … ‘wink’ ‘wink’. The corruption of the Christian Republican Church Party never ceases to amaze me.
Posted by: Mike-WA | October 7, 2008, 5:56 pm 5:56 pm
Another failed strike, Mr. McCain. Calling the other side crazy, after everyone has called you everything from reckless to erratic to flailing.
Mr. McCain, you are making the country feel very badly. What has happened to you? It’s been a long public life; you don’t need to do this. You don’t need to run for this “crazy” office in these “crazy” times. And please, you don’t need to dishonor your decades of service with this over-the-top—below-the-belt?—style of campaigning and half-truths your folks are putting out.
Can’t you hear the country asking you to back down on these types of attacks, in these ways?
Posted by: Ron, Baltimore | October 7, 2008, 6:01 pm 6:01 pm
Obama MUST proceed full speed ahead with his INVESTMENT PLAN for America.
That is the way to recover America from the bush-McCaint-Republi-con economic meltdown: HUGE INVESTMENT IN AMERICA’S FUTURE!
Obama MUST INVEST in Solar-mining and other New Energies, in Fuel Effficient transportation, in Affordable Health Car for ALL Americans, in the Education of Americans from the cradle to college, in Infrastructure Projects.
This is the time to face the economic challenges head on!
Let the UNPATRIOTIC, greedy, criminal and coward Republicons move out the way of progress.
Posted by: Patriot | October 7, 2008, 6:13 pm 6:13 pm
This debate continues to show that John has no grasp of fundamental math, just like his winking running mate, and the remainder of his party.
Where will the money come from if we write down every over-valued mortgage out there? There’s over-valued mortages on EVERY street in America!
Posted by: where2 | October 7, 2008, 6:43 pm 6:43 pm
LOL! nice try you libs, keep changing your name to mine, LOL! Why would a liberal post McCain’s Health plan, or better yet, post Obama’s Health plan to be bad and wrong by the fact of actual doing’s, and even the wrong thing to do economically! Drink another beer you liberal hypocrites!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 6:55 pm 6:55 pm
Well, when Bush took office the no fly zone in Iraq was already in place…kind of a Big Stick he inherited there already if you ask me.
Sounds like Clinton didn’t have a problem with it, either.
I don’t get what kind of ‘diplomacy’ could be used with a Saddam Hussein that hadn’t worked over 10 years.
Posted by: Grand Old Party | October 7, 2008, 7:00 pm 7:00 pm
Edward shows the real colors of hypocrisy by lies and indoctrination and forceful thinking by force and mind manipulation by liberal socialist thinking.
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 7:00 pm 7:00 pm
McCain did fairly well in the second debate, don’t be surprised to see him gain a few percentage points in the polls in the next few days. He did seem to be kind of limping and not safe on his feet, which may subconsciously cause some voters to feel that he is too weak and old to be running the entire nation for the next four years, then comes to mind if he is so much as hospitalized we got WHO as President???? No way, not her, no way, an ambitious floozy in the Oval Officem, Lord NOOOOOooooo…
So, let me retract that previous prediction and say the polls will remain the same because his doing well in speech delivery will be exactly offset by the old-man-wobbling impression that leads to the God-NOT-her for Prez reaction.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 7:01 pm 7:01 pm
ed must be a democratic queer!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Idependent | October 7, 2008, 7:02 pm 7:02 pm
Edward, McCain went through physical tortore you idiot judgemental f*c*. Obama needs to get better control of his stststuuddering!!!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 7:08 pm 7:08 pm
Geez, and the things I do for such a backstabbing idiot, letsrollerboy. I figured out that Independent Voter stole your name and made racist comments, so I stole his ID and made the McCain homophobe thing up, then attacked him as a liberal Democrat just to neutralize the unfairness, and now you are attacking me as a liberal? And your attack is highly inappropriate if people go back and read all my comments, they see an obviously well thought out series of thoughts, arguments, counter arguments, a willingness to consent to ideas from an intelligent conservative Republican like “Grand Old Party”, an expression of appreciating his well-considered opinions, and now you slap some label on me and kick me down the stairs, EVEN after I paid that guy back who wrongly stole your name and posted to defame you. Ok, it IS true I always thought you were slightly idiotic and arrogant, so thanks for deepening my conviction on that opinion.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 7:08 pm 7:08 pm
The choice is quite easy:
McCain: Tax cuts for the wealthy and big corporations and none for those making less than $100,000 a year. (and yet he says he is for ‘main street’)
Obama: Tax cuts for the majority of working Americans, modest increases for those earning $200,000 or more a year (less than they were under Clintons tax plan)
McCain: Shift health coverage to deregulated private sector with fixed tax credit to all income levels, more Americans would lose coverage (and again, favors the wealthy)
Obama: Provide an additional insurance carrier that would allow more people to get insurance, and with tax cuts to employers providing coverage saving them an annual $140 billion, which would also increase revenue for health providers by increasing insured patients.
McCain: Wants congress to investigate Enron loophole (even though congress has already tried twice to pass bills that would close it, and both were vetoed by Bush)
Obama: Wants to close enron loophole right away, causing an immediate drop in gas prices for all Americans
McCain: Wants to drill for more oil, and build nuclear plants (even though we would not see any output from them for 7-10 years)
Obama: Faster shift towards alternative energy sources and better utilization of existing resources.
McCain: a D- student with a navy background that was dismal in both character and quality (read his book!)
Obama: a Harvard Law school graduate, magna cum laude, and a constitutional law expert
McCain: Military shoot first ask questions later foreign policy stance
Obama: Diplomacy and dialog with military as option of last resort
McCain: No foriegn policy experience except for armed services
Obama: Member foreign relations, Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, and subcommitties on European, East Asian and Pacific, African affairs as well as International development and security, specalized in International Relations in college.
McCain: Vast majority of introduced bills in Senate are directly related to the military.
Obama: Introduced bills for equal rights, environment, housing, health care, alternative and renewable fuels, safer drugs, constitutional rights, improved fuel economy and other issues relating to a better America and helping Americans.
Looking at the issues and what they would mean to our country, you would have to be as dumb as Bush to not vote for Obama.
Posted by: Natasha | October 7, 2008, 7:08 pm 7:08 pm
What do you think Senator Obama, uhh uh uuh uh uuuuh uuuhhh, well, good question, uhh uuh uh u h uhhuhhhuhuhhuh
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 7:10 pm 7:10 pm
Edward, Nice try you abc Obama blogger!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 7:12 pm 7:12 pm
I went through physical torture too, but I am not going on 80, that was old age frailty I saw– and I don’t actually mind that, if you were a little smarter you would see I was making a political analysis of what public perception and opinion might be. Look, I am not going to get pigeonholed into your shiddy Obamabot label on top of being called other names, didn’t I say a long time ago I wasn’t even going to hold a discussion with you. What am I doing, I must be an idiot like you have accused. Live and learn, over and out.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 7:13 pm 7:13 pm
Headline: Obama spending is ‘crazy’
LOL! This coming from someone who, after we just approved a bailout bill, spending $700 billion that we don’t have, on top of spending $10 billion a month in Iraq, that we don’t have, on top of regular government spending of $500 billion, that we don’t have, now proposing that we buy up all the bad loans in the country, with money we don’t have.
McCain has finally gone off the deep end.
Posted by: Bennie | October 7, 2008, 7:14 pm 7:14 pm
Edward, nice physiological political warfare. Twist and lies!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 7:15 pm 7:15 pm
Just like Obama stated, public political officials get the best health care in the nation, and McCain wants to give that to the American public by choice. McCain gets to choose his on health care plan and doctors, what don’t you understand about that. Or do you just want Government mandated health care, look at Illinois health care, which is exactly what Obama is proposing my American Friend.
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 7:21 pm 7:21 pm
Grand Old Party, I already explained the Iraq mistake, we didn’t need to use the big stick, it was like Bushco pointed at some rotten piece of rope on the ground, yelled SNAKE!!! and then started beating it with that big stick. He lied, the UN was right in their intelligence, Hussein and Al Qaeda were already enemies of each other and they were not in the country, so Hussein would still be the Great Dictator (whom we originally enthroned) and he would be dissing us but we would keep up the UN pressure and ongoing inspections until at some point the UN would say they believe he really is developing Anthrax again, then we would gather a true “coalition of the willing” and allow Europe, Asia, the Middle East to all help and share responsibility while being a good, true and wise leading nation instead of some lying buttheads who seemed to have drawn an ex on our “New American Century” geopolitical map. That’s how I see it, and you see it like OMG we’re in danger of Evil getting us. They tricked you into thinking in an overreactive mode, and many still think like you do, they have been so flooded for so long with the daily dose of red yellow alerts and terrorist talk and security scares until you thank them for taking away your constitutional rights. Don’t be a dupe…
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 7:23 pm 7:23 pm
Bennie, Obama approved the bill also, by which he also said the first bill good enough. Now economist are saying it might not be enough. And the Democrats and Republicans in the House and Senate, both agreed the second bill is better. What’s you’re Democratic talking point, LOL! And Obama is introducing trillions of dollar’s more in spending, plus his and other democratic earmarks, give me a break, LOL!!!!!!! McCain is offering tax breaks to everybody, the rich to create jobs, and the middle class and lower income to help with bills etc…
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 7:33 pm 7:33 pm
No need to be insulting.
Well, Edward, I don’t think 550 metric tons of yellow cake uranium is anything to sneeze at.
I can’t remember when other countries have really “shared the responsibility” save Great Britain. Seems like we’re always going in with marginal assistance from other countries.
Also, remember that many of these countries we should have “shared the responsibility” with were circumventing the U.N. sanctions to line their own pockets.
OK, so let’s just say if, if now, U.S. forces go into Iran and Lo and Behold there’s no Fat Man or Little Boy all primed and ready to be launched at Israel or maybe our fleet in the Persian Gulf…at what point do you let them develop WMD and how good would your intelligence be given that these are closed societies?
Why doesn’t anyone complain about the screwed up mission to Somalia under Clinton or lots of these folks on the Left talking about going into Darfur? Just because it’s a Bush thing it’s stupid. What kind of foreign policy is that?
Also, why the assumption that if Osama were killed or captured, all would be right with the world? One may wonder why we invaded France and killed innocent French civilians even though we at war with Germany…to rid a country of oppression and an ongoing threat to our national security obviously.
Posted by: Grand Old Party | October 7, 2008, 7:33 pm 7:33 pm
Edward is an IDIOT LIBERAL MORON!!!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 7:34 pm 7:34 pm
Lets roll wrote: “Edward shows the real colors of hypocrisy by lies and indoctrination and forceful thinking by force and mind manipulation by liberal socialist thinking.”
And I realized, that was his way of saying I am capable of expressing ideas well and am clever, it is a twisted compliment, even if all that rich and complicated series of thoughts did get reduced to “liberal socialist thinking”, I, the one arguing for conservative libertarian ideals got pushed into “liberal socialist”, lord these simpleminded labels are part of what is ruining our country. Ayers is now a “terrorist” when we would have called him a “militant war protester” only a decade ago, the abuse, torture and death of language, the bankrupcy of meaning makes me wish to steal all those lying words out of the mouths of politicians and pundits, blow the breath of meaning back into each one and set them free, watch them flutter off to heaven to join the word truth forever, aye I am also a poet, and “liberal socialist” is like cramming some odd hat upon my head to laugh at me, yet I could take that hat and show you how to refold it, give meanings back to those words and make you envy my new velvet fedora, for the obtuse of wit and soul do not have this, they can only call some names, write waaaa waaaaa wa waaaaaa LOL and in their own twisted minds think themselves clever by such cheap tritosity. I’ll penetrate such brains and dig out the honest compliment peeking through the biled and dishonest words, I’ll take the shining truth and show it to the world, even as the liars shall deny that I have truly done so. This is my gift, thank God I am not simple-minded, though of course I shall be accused of this, the fool who wear the crown…
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 7:36 pm 7:36 pm
Exactly my point ed, you are a manipulator of the mind!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 7:38 pm 7:38 pm
Edward, Conservative libertarian you are not! If so, you would not be arguing with me on polices, but just reactions to the situations by disagreements. You show to much anger to be a Conservative, or even a libertarian. You’re comments show to much of a liberal socialist view, sorry you don’t agree. So change your name, or even others, to make moronic statements of far left bray thinking!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 7:44 pm 7:44 pm
I think a fundamental difference is that I do not believe we even have the right to decide who gets to have a nuclear weapon and who not. Who made us the great deciders? Why do we presume we have the right to dictate to every country what it will and will not do? Let me put it this way… imagine for a moment that some country, a really big and powerful country, told us we cannot build nuclear weapons or they will attack us? You know, one of the biggest problems with Americans is their severe inability to reverse situations, make stunning but truthful comparisons, or to understand any other country or culture from any point of view other than an American one. That is partly why nobody in Europe, except Blair who got sucked into the power thing, actually respect or even like GW Bush. He seems like an American idiot because he is so incapable of perceiving situations or circumstances from a neutral place, or at least see things from the other countries perspectives, and this is at the heart of our foreign policy failure, ethnocentrism and Americentrism. I understand that because it took me several years before I started to see my own American points of view, and only living a daily life in a foreign country gave me that gift, the ability to see my American mind by looking at it with another culture’s mind. That is what is missing on all these forums, too, nearly all are Americans trapped behind a sort of electronic curtain for the entirety of their lives, completely unaware of what is really going on beyond that insidious curtain, insidious because it is worse than an iron curtain, which at least you can see and cut the barbed wire and escape, but an electronic curtain is invisible and surrounds your mind until you are grateful slaves praising your empty words like patriotism and freedom, words that ring like loud and clear BS when other nations hear Bush saying “I want to spread freedom” even as people of these smaller nations bend on knee to pray to Allah or God, “Lord, please don’t let American come here and spread their freedom, I love my children and fear their safety, red alert, red alert…” Nevermind, I have no illusions about schooling guys like Lets roll, and am yet doubtful of you Grand Old Party, go ahead and call me a wacky word-crazed liberal, I am actually a rich writer who got paid real good for words like these, I probably freely waste upon the firm believers who have actually been seduced until their opinions they are sure have come from their own minds (behind the electronic curtain, blind to the barbwired words that tricked and entrapped them to hold fearfully firm to their solid grounds of (un)reason), you ought to take apart every word you ever use, every idea you ever have, examine it suspiciously and suddenly lies and deception starts falling out of the language, the distortions become visible through the glass darkly, electronic threads of the curtain fray and fall, a curious hole appears in the curtain, you take out a laser of cognitive dissonance and slice it, realize the illusion of living that daily American life to work and to watch the evening news and discuss the issues they have set upon your plate, fed you for years until the sickly green poison sucks up sweetly through those mental straws, I have this, that thing you must work to receive, “freedom”, I could not live any other way– an “idiot liberal moron” that you know damn good and well is a really bad hat to place on a guy like me, because I just refold it to wear my crown.
Posted by: Edward | October 7, 2008, 8:03 pm 8:03 pm
Edward, a liberal socialist mind!!!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 8:28 pm 8:28 pm
ACORN, we all know about this voter fraud, It’s on now, bring it on!!!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 8:29 pm 8:29 pm
ACORN, Nevada, Florida, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Ohio, New Mexico! You are being watched and you are going down for voter fraud!!!!!!!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 8:35 pm 8:35 pm
ACORN, Nevada, Florida, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Ohio, New Mexico! You are being watched and you are going down for voter fraud!!!!!!!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 8:37 pm 8:37 pm
ACORN, Nevada, Florida, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Ohio, New Mexico! You are being watched and you are going down for voter fraud!!!!!!!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 8:37 pm 8:37 pm
ACORN, Nevada, Florida, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Ohio, New Mexico! You are being watched and you are going down for voter fraud!!!!!!!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 8:38 pm 8:38 pm
ACORN, Nevada, Florida, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Ohio, New Mexico! You are being watched and you are going down for voter fraud!!!!!!!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 8:38 pm 8:38 pm
THAT’S RIGHT, AMERICA, WAKE UP!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 8:39 pm 8:39 pm
IT’S ON, LETS ROLL!
Posted by: Lets Roll | October 7, 2008, 8:40 pm 8:40 pm
Amazing Edward, this is the first time I have ever seen an American write these things, but as an African who visits America you have described incredibly what I thinking about America. I could not write what you wrote, but I read it and it is exactly ideas I have thought about America, my country disappears from the world when I go to America, like I go behind “electronic curtain”, and everything on news has this obvious American angle that Americans cannot see, this is true. I only read these comment sections to practice English and never comment, this being first time. I had to comment to tell you much in your message is exactly right. Edward speaks true.
Posted by: Reynold | October 7, 2008, 8:42 pm 8:42 pm
ACORN and Barack Obama has one and the same agenda. Both lack honesty and integrity. Obama trained these people too cheat and lie. He also made sure that ACORN received free tax money.
Posted by: Marla | October 7, 2008, 8:55 pm 8:55 pm
This an excellent post , I’m grateful to you , thanks a lot .
Posted by: العاب شمس الدين | October 8, 2008, 2:15 am 2:15 am
RNC needs to wake up and become sober.
The spending plan that is correctly deserving of teh label “Crazy” is McCain’s. McCain wants to give a $300 billion tax cut, $200 billion of it to the largest corporations and a hundred thousand of it going to people like CEOs on Wall Street.
He is proposing tax cuts that would give the average Fortune 500 CEO an additional $700,000, while leaving the middle class out in the cold. Truly this is a continuation of Bush’s tax plans, and it’s not fair, nor does it work.
Posted by: Barack Obama IS Our next president and Joe Biden is the VP | October 8, 2008, 9:17 am 9:17 am
RNC needs to wake up and become sober.
The spending plan that is correctly deserving of the label “Crazy” is McCain’s. McCain wants to give a $300 billion tax cut, $200 billion of it to the largest corporations and a hundred thousand of it going to people like CEOs on Wall Street.
He is proposing tax cuts that would give the average Fortune 500 CEO an additional $700,000, while leaving the middle class out in the cold. Truly this is a continuation of Bush’s tax plans, and it’s not fair, nor does it work.
Posted by: Barack Obama IS Our next president and Joe Biden is the VP | October 8, 2008, 9:18 am 9:18 am
DOES GOD NEED TO LOBBY OUR US CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD ON BEHALF OF OUR POORER AMERICAN’S SENATOR OBAMA,OR ARE YOU WATCHING OUT FOR THEM ALSO ??
SURELY OUR US CONGRESS & US SUPREME COURT BOTH KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A STATE MURDER IN GEORGIA OR A POSSIBLE EXECUTION OF TROY DAVIS IN GEORGIA THIS WEEK ???
OUR US CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD CONTINUE TO DENY MIDDLE CLASS AND WORKING POOR AMERICANS PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION EVEN THOUGH WRONGFUL EXECUTIONS & FALSE INCARCERATIONS CONTINUE ALL ACROSS AMERICA ???
*** 700 BILLION $$$ AVAILABLE FOR US BAILOUT, & NO $$$ FOR ALL POORER AMERICANS PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION ???????
WHERE ARE AMERICA ‘S RELIGIOUS LEADERS ??
SENATOR OBAMA, THIS JUDICIAL INJUSTICE HAS BECOME AN AMERICAN ART FORM, AND NO LONGER CAN BE KEPT HIDDEN OR SECRET FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE EVEN IF CERTAIN (501c3) U$ RELIGIOU$ LEADER$ HAVE BEEN $ILENCED ??
LETS ALL HOPE OUR MEDIA FRIENDS CONTINUE TO SHOW AN INTEREST IN REPORTING ON THIS AMERICAN HORROR FACING THESE (TENS OF THOUSANDS) FORGOTTEN AND TRAPPED POORER AMERICANS, AND HOW THIS PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDER HANDLES THIS VERY SERIOUS ISSUE FACING AMERICA’S LATINO AND BLACK AMERICAN COMMUNITIES ????
WITH 80% OF THE BLACK AMERICAN VOTERS SAYING THEY SUPPORT SENATOR OBAMA IN THIS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, IT IS ONLY FAIR FOR EVERYONE TO KNOW PRIOR BEING ELECTED OUR NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HOW THIS DEMOCRATIC SENATOR TRULY FEELS ABOUT THIS AMERICAN JUDICIAL INJUSTICE CONTINUING TO INFLICT GRAVE HARM ON THE BLACK & LATINO AMERICAN FAMILIES AND THEIR COMMUNITIES NATIONWIDE ??????
*** WHEN GOD’S FACE BECAME VERY RED ***
THE US SUPREME COURT GAVE ENEMY COMBATANTS FEDERAL APPEAL HC RIGHTS LAWYERS AND PROPER ACCESS TO US FEDERAL COURTS,AND POORER AMERICANS (MANY EVEN ON DEATH ROW) ARE DENIED PROPER FEDERAL APPEAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION TO OUR US FEDERAL COURTS OF APPEAL, AND ROTTING IN AMERICAN PRISONS NATIONWIDE ?????????
**** INNOCENT AMERICANS ARE DENIED REAL HC RIGHTS WITH THEIR FEDERAL APPEALS !
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE $LOWLY FINDING OUT HOW EA$Y IT I$ FOR MIDDLE CLA$$ AND WORKING POOR AMERICAN$ TO FALL VICTIM TO OUR U$ MONETARY JUDICIAL $Y$TEM.
****WHEN THE US INNOCENT WERE ABANDONED BY THE GUILTY ****
The prison experts have reported that there are 100,000 innocent Americans currently being falsely imprisoned along with the 2,300,000 total US prison population nationwide.
Since our US Congress has never afforded poor prison inmates federal appeal legal counsel for their federal retrials,they have effectively closed the doors on these tens of thousands of innocent citizens ever being capable of possibly exonerating themselves to regain their freedom through being granted new retrials.
This same exact unjust situation was happening in our Southern States when poor and mostly uneducated Black Americans were being falsely imprisoned for endless decades without the needed educational skills to properly submit their own written federal trial appeals.
This devious and deceptive judicial process of making our poor and innocent prison inmates formulate and write their own federal appeal legal cases for possible retrials on their state criminal cases,is still in effect today even though everyone in our US judicial system knows that without proper legal representation, these tens of thousands of innocent prison inmates will be denied their rightful opportunities of ever being granted new trials from our federal appeal judges!!
Sadly, the true US *legal* Federal Appeal situation that occurs when any of our uneducated American prison inmates are forced to attempt to submit their own written Federal Appeals (from our prisons nationwide) without the assistance of proper legal counsel, is that they all are in reality being denied their legitimate rights for Habeas Corpus with our US FEDERAL COURTS and will win any future Supreme Court Case concerning this injustice!
For our judicial system and our US Congressional Leaders Of The Free World to continue to pretend that this is a real and fair opportunity for our American Middle Class and Working Poor Citizens, only delays the very needed future change of Federal Financing of all these Federal appeals becoming a normal formula of Our American judicial system.
It was not so very long ago that Public Defenders became a Reality in this country.Prior that legal reality taking place, their were also some who thought giving anyone charged with a crime a free lawyer was a waste of taxpayers $$.
This FACADE and HORROR of our Federal Appeal proce$$ is not worthy of the Greatest Country In The World!
***GREAT SOCIETIES THAT DO NOT PROTECT EVEN THEIR INNOCENT, BECOME THE GUILTY!
A MUST READ ABOUT AMERICAN INJUSTICE:
1) YAHOO AND 2) GOOGLE
MANNY GONZALES THE KID THAT EVERYONE FORGOT IN THE CA PRISON SYSTEM.
** A JUDICIAL RIDE OF ONES LIFE !
lawyersforpooramericans@yahoo.com
(424-247-2013)
Posted by: DOUGLAS FIELD | October 8, 2008, 12:05 pm 12:05 pm
Amazing. The worst economic and cultural crisis of all time will go down in history horribly misunderstood. What a pathetic bunch of ignorant fools we have become. Consumer junkie credit card morons. Perfect little victims. Say that reminds me.
Don’t believe one optimistic word from any public figure about the economy or humanity in general. They are all part of the problem. Its like a game of Monopoly. In America, the richest 1% now hold ALMOST 1/2 OF ALL UNITED STATES WEALTH. Unlike ‘lesser’ estimates, this includes all stocks, bonds, cash, offshore accounts, and material assets held by America’s richest 1%. Even that filthy pig Oprah acknowledged that it was at about 50% in 2006. Naturally, she put her own ‘humanitarian’ spin on it. Calling attention to her own ‘good will’. WHAT A DISGUSTING HYPOCRITE SLOB. THE RICHEST ONE PERCENT HAVE LITERALLY MADE WORLD PROSPERITY ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE. Don’t fall for any of their ‘humanitarian’ CRAP. ITS A SHAM. THESE PEOPLE ARE CAUSING THE SAME PROBLEMS THEY PRETEND TO CARE ABOUT. Ask any professor of economics. Money does not grow on trees. The government can’t just print up more on a whim. At any given time, there is a relative limit to the wealth within ANY economy of ANY size. So when too much wealth accumulates at the top, the middle class slip further into debt and the lower class further into poverty. A similar rule applies worldwide. The world’s richest 1% now own over 40% of ALL WORLD WEALTH. This is EVEN AFTER you account for all of this ‘good will’ ‘humanitarian’ BS from celebrities and executives. ITS A SHAM. As they get richer and richer, less wealth is left circulating beneath them. This is the single greatest underlying cause for the current US recession. The middle class can no longer afford to sustain their share of the economy. Their wealth has been gradually transfered to the richest 1%. One way or another, we suffer because of their incredible greed. We are talking about TRILLIONS of dollars which have been transfered FROM US TO THEM. All over a period of about 27 years. Thats Reaganomics for you. The wealth does not ‘trickle down’ as we were told it would. It just accumulates at the top. Shrinking the middle class and expanding the lower class. Causing a domino effect of socio-economic problems. But the rich will never stop. They just keep getting richer. Leaving even less of the pie for the other 99% of us to share. At the same time, they throw back a few tax deductible crumbs and call themselves ‘humanitarians’. Cashing in on the PR and getting even richer the following year. IT CAN’T WORK THIS WAY. Their bogus efforts to make the world a better place can not possibly succeed. Any ‘humanitarian’ progress made in one area will be lost in another. EVERY SINGLE TIME. IT ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT WORK THIS WAY. This is going to end just like a game of Monopoly. The current US recession will drag on for years and lead into the worst US depression of all time. The richest 1% will live like royalty while the rest of us fight over jobs, food, and gasoline. So don’t fall for any of this PR CRAP from Hollywood, Pro Sports, and Wall Street PIGS. ITS A SHAM. Remember: They are filthy rich EVEN AFTER their tax deductible contributions. Greedy pigs. Now, we are headed for the worst economic and cultural crisis of all time. Crime, poverty, and suicide will skyrocket. SEND A “THANK YOU” NOTE TO YOUR FAVORITE MILLIONAIRE. ITS THEIR FAULT. I’m not discounting other factors like China, sub-prime, or gas prices. But all of those factors combined still pale in comparison to that HUGE transfer of wealth to the rich. Anyway, those other factors are all related and further aggrivated because of GREED. If it weren’t for the OBSCENE distribution of wealth within our country, there never would have been such a market for sub-prime to begin with. IF IT WEREN’T FOR THE OBSCENE, UNREASONABLE, AND UNJUST DISTRIBUTION OF UNITED STATES WEALTH, THERE NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN SUCH A MARKET FOR SUB-PRIME AND THERE NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN A COLLAPSE IN THE HOUSING MARKET. Sub-prime did not cause the problem. It only accelerated the outcome. Which by the way, was another trick whipped up by greedy bankers and executives. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. The credit industry has been ENDORSED by people like Oprah Winfrey, Ellen DeGeneres, Dr Phil, and many other celebrities. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. In fact, they specifically endorsed Countrywide by name. The same Countrywide widely responsible for predatory adjustable rate sub-prime lending and the accelerated collapse of the housing market. ENDORSED BY OPRAH WINFREY, ELLEN DEGENERES, AND DR PHIL. Now, there are commercial ties between nearly every industry and every public figure. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. It also drives up the cost for nearly every product and service on the market. So don’t fall for their ‘good will’ BS. ITS A LIE. If you fall for it, then you’re a fool. If you see any real difference between the moral character of a celebrity, politician, attorney, or executive, then you’re a fool. No offense fellow citizens. But we have been mislead by nearly every public figure. We still are. Even now, they claim to be ‘hurting’ right along with the rest of us. As if gas prices actually effect the lifestyle of a millionaire. ITS A LIE. IN 2007, THE RICHEST 1% INCREASED THEIR AVERAGE BOTTOM LINE WEALTH AGAIN. On average, they are now worth over $4,000,000 each. Thats an all time high. As a group, they are now worth well over $17,000,000,000,000. THATS WELL OVER SEVENTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS. Another all time high. Which by the way, is much more than the entire middle and lower classes combined. Also more than enough to pay off our national debt, fund the Iraq war for a decade, repair our infrastructure, and bail out the US housing market. Still think that our biggest problem is China? Think again. Its the 1% club. That means every big name celebrity, athlete, executive, entrepreneur, developer, banker, and lottery winner. Along with many attorneys, doctors, and politicians. If they are rich, then they are part of the problem. Their incredible wealth was not ‘created’, ‘generated’, grown in their back yard, or printed up on their command. It was transfered FROM US TO THEM. Directly and indirectly. Its become near impossible to spend a dollar without making some greedy pig even richer. Don’t be fooled by the occasional loss of a millionaire’s fortune. Overall, they just keep getting richer. They absolutely will not stop. Still, they have the nerve to pretend as if they care about ordinary people. ITS A LIE. NOTHING BUT CALCULATED PR CRAP. WAKE UP PEOPLE. THEIR GOAL IS TO WIN THE GAME. The 1% club will always say or do whatever it takes to get as rich as possible. Without the slightest regard for anything or anyone but themselves. Reaganomics. Their idea. Loans from China. Their idea. NAFTA. Their idea. Outsourcing. Their idea. Sub-prime. Their idea. High energy prices. Their idea. Oil ‘futures’. Their idea. Obscene health care charges. Their idea. The commercial lobbyist. Their idea. The multi-million dollar lawsuit. Their idea. The multi-million dollar endorsement deal. Their idea. $200 cell phone bills. Their idea. $200 basketball shoes. Their idea. $30 late fees. Their idea. $30 NSF fees. Their idea. $20 DVDs. Their idea. Subliminal advertising. Their idea. Brainwash plots on TV. Their idea. Vioxx, and Celebrex. Their idea. Excessive medical testing. Their idea. The MASSIVE campaign to turn every American into a brainwashed, credit card, pharmaceutical, medical testing, love-sick, celebrity junkie. Their idea. All of the above drive up the cost of living, shrink the middle class, concentrate the world’s wealth and resources, create a dominoe effect of socio-economic problems, and wreak havok on society. All of which have been CREATED AND ENDORSED by celebrities, athletes, executives, entrepreneurs, attorneys, and politicians. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. So don’t fall for any of their ‘good will’ ‘humanitarian’ BS. ITS A SHAM. NOTHING BUT TAX DEDUCTIBLE PR CRAP. In many cases, the ‘charitable’ contribution is almost entirely offset. Not to mention the opportunity to plug their name, image, product, and ‘good will’ all at once. Which is usually done just before or after the release of their latest commercial project. IT MAKES
THEM RICHER. These filthy pigs even have the nerve to throw a fit and spin up a misleading defense with regard to ‘federal tax revenue’. ITS A SHAM. THEY SCREWED UP THE EQUATION TO BEGIN WITH. If the middle and lower classes had a greater share of the pie, they could easily cover a greater share of the federal tax revenue. They are held down in many ways because of greed. Wages remain stagnant for millions because the executives, celebrities, athletes, attorneys, and entrepreneurs, are paid millions. They over-sell, over-charge, under-pay, outsource, cut jobs, and benefits to increase their bottom line. As their profits rise, so do the stock values. Which are owned primarily by the richest 5%. As more United States wealth rises to the top, the middle and lower classes inevitably suffer. This reduces the potential tax reveue drawn from those brackets. At the same time, it wreaks havok on middle and lower class communities and increases the need for financial aid. Not to mention the spike in crime because of it. There is a dominoe effect to consider. IT CAN’T WORK THIS WAY. But our leaders refuse to acknowledge this. Instead they come up with one trick after another to milk the system and screw the majority. These decisions are heavily influensed by the 1% club. Every year, billions of federal tax dollars are diverted behind the scenes back to the rich and their respective industries. Loans from China have been necessary to compensate in part, for the red ink and multi-trillion dollar transfer of wealth to the rich. At the same time, the feds have been pushing more financial burden onto the states who push them lower onto the cities. Again, the hardship is felt more by the majority and less by the 1% club. The rich prefer to live in exclusive areas or upper class communities. They get the best of everything. Reliable city services, new schools, freshly paved roads, upscale parks, ect. The middle and lower class communities get little or nothing without a local tax increase. Which, they usually can’t afford. So the red ink flows followed by service cuts and lay-offs. All because of the OBSCENE distribution of bottom line wealth in this country. Anyway, when you account for all federal, state, and local taxes, the middle class actually pay about the same rate as the rich. The devil is in the details. So when people forgive the rich for their incredible greed and then praise them for paying a greater share of the FEDERAL income taxes, its like nails on a chalk board. I can not accept any theory that our economy would suffer in any way with a more reasonable distribution of wealth. Afterall, it was more reasonable 30 years ago. Before Reaganomics came along. Before GREED became such an epidemic. Before we had an army of over-paid executives, bankers, celebrities, athletes, attorneys, doctors, investors, entrepreneurs, developers, and sold-out politicians to kiss their asses. As a nation, we were in much better shape. Strong middle class, free and clear assets, lower crime rate, more widespread prosperity, stable job market, lower deficit, ect. Our economy as a whole was much more stable and prosperous for the majority. WITHOUT LOANS FROM CHINA. Now, we have a more obscene distribution of bottom line wealth than ever before. We have a sold-out government, crumbling infrastructure, energy crisis, home forclosure epidemic, credit crunch, weak US dollar, 13 figure national deficit, and 12 figure annual shortfall. The cost of living is higher than ever before. Most people can’t even afford basic health care. ALL BECAUSE OF GREED. I really don’t blame the 2nd -5th percentiles in general. No economy could ever function without some reasonable scale of personal wealth and income. But it can’t be allowed to run wild like a mad dog. ALBERT EINSTEIN TRIED TO MAKE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND. UNBRIDLED CAPITALISM ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT WORK. TOP HEAVY ECONOMIES ALWAYS COLLAPSE. Bottom line: The richest 1% will soon tank the largest economy in the world. It will be like nothing we’ve ever seen before. The American dream will be shattered. and thats just the beginning. Greed will eventually tank every major economy in the world. Causing millions to suffer and die. Oprah, Angelina, Brad, Bono, and Bill are not part of the solution. They are part of the problem. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MULTI-MILLIONAIRE HUMANITARIAN. EXTREME WEALTH MAKES WORLD PROSPERITY ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE. WITHOUT WORLD PROSPERITY, THERE WILL NEVER BE WORLD PEACE OR ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL. Of course, the rich will throw a fit and call me a madman. Of course, they will jump to small minded conclusions about ‘jealousy’, ‘envy’, or ’socialism’. Of course, their ignorant fans will do the same. You have to expect that. But I speak the truth. If you don’t believe me, then copy this entry and run it by any professor of economics or socio-economics. Then tell a friend. Call the local radio station. Re-post this entry or put it in your own words. Be one of the first to predict the worst economic and cultural crisis of all time and explain its cause. WE ARE IN BIG TROUBLE.
So what can we do about it? Well, not much. Unfortunately, we are stuck on a runaway train. The problem has gone unchecked for too many years. The US/global depression is comming thanks to the 1% club. It would take a massive effort by the vast majority to prevent it. Along with a voluntary sacrifice by the rich. THATS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. But if you believe in miracles, then spend your money as wisely as possible. Especially in middle and lower class communities. Check the Fortune 500 list and limit your support of high profit/low labor industries (Hollywood, pro sports, energy, credit, pharmaceutical, cable, satelite, internet advertising, cell phone, high fashion, jewelry, ect.). Cancel all but one credit card for emergencies only. If you need a cell phone, then do your homework and find the best deal on a local pre-pay. If you want home internet access, then use the least expensive provider, and share accounts whenever possible. If you need to search, then use the less popular search engines. They usually produce the same results anyway. Don’t click on any internet ad. If you need the product or service, then look up the phone number or address and contact that business directly. Don’t pay to see any blockbuster movie. Instead, wait a few months and rent the DVD from a local store or buy it USED. If you want to see a big name game or event, then watch it in a local bar, club, or at home on network TV. Don’t buy any high end official merchendise and don’t support the high end sponsors. If its endorsed by a big name celebrity, then don’t buy it. If you can afford a new car, then make an exception for GM, Ford, and Dodge. If they don’t increase their market share soon, then a lot more people are going to get screwed out of their pensions and/or benefits. Of course, you must know by now to avoid those big trucks and SUVs unless you truly need one for its intended purpose. Don’t be ashamed to buy a foreign car if you prefer it. Afterall, those with the most fuel efficient vehicles consume a lot less foreign oil. Which accounts for a pretty big chunk of our trade deficit. Anyway, the global economy is worth supporting to some extent. Its the obscene profit margins, trade deficits, and BS from OPEC that get us into trouble. Otherwise, the global economy would be a good thing for everyone. Just keep in mind that the big 3 are struggling and they do produce a few smaller reliable cars. Don’t frequent any high end department store or any business in a newly developed upper class community. By doing so, you make developers richer and draw support away from industrial areas and away from the middle class communities. Instead, support the local retailer and the less popular shopping centers. Especially in lower or middle class communities. If you can afford to buy a home, then do so. But go smaller and less expensive. Don’t get yourself in too deep and don’t buy into the newly developed condos or gated communities. Instead, find a modest home in a building or neighborhood at least 20 years old. If you live in one of the poorer states, then try to support its economy first and foremost. Be on the lookout for commercial brainwash plots on TV. They are written into nearly every scene of nearly every show. Most cater to network sponsors and parent companies. Especially commercial health care. Big business is fine on occasion depending on the profit margins and profit sharing. Do your homework. If you want to support any legitimate charity, then do so directly. Never support any celebrity foundation. They spend most of their funding on PR campaigns, travel, and high end accomodations for themselves. Instead, go to Charitywatch.org and look up a top rated charity to support your favorite cause. In general, support the little guy as much as possible and the big guy as little as possible. Do your part to reverse the transfer of wealth away from the rich and back to the middle and lower classes. Unfortunately, there is no perfect answer. Jobs will be lost either way. Innocent children will starve and die either way. But we need to support the largest group of workers with the most reasonable profit margins. We also need to support LEGITIMATE charities (Check that list at Charitywatch.org). This is our only chance to limit the severity and/or duration of the comming US/global depression. In the meantime, don’t listen to Bernanke, Paulson, Bartiromo, Orman, Dobbs, Kramer, OReiley, or any other public figure with regard to the economy. They are all plenty smart but I swear to you that they will lie right through their rotten teeth. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. These people work for big business. The ‘experts’ they cite also work for big business. They are all motivated by their desire to accumulate more wealth. THEY WILL LIE RIGHT THROUGH THEIR ROTTEN TEETH. So don’t fall for their tricks. Instead, look at the big picture. The economic problems we face have been mounting for well over 20 years. All of them caused or aggrivated by a constant transfer of wealth from poorer to richer. Soon, it will cause the first ever GLOBAL DEPRESION. Its not brain surgery. Its simple math. Like I said, you are welcome to run this by any professor of economics or socio-economics. If thats not good enough, then look up what Einstein had to say about greed, extreme wealth, and its horrible concequences. I speak the truth. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.
Its already underway. A massive campaign to divert our attention. Trump, Buffet, OReiley, Dobbs, Pickens, Norris, and several other well known filthy rich public figures have been running their mouths about the economy. Finally admitting a hint of severity after almost 2 years of denial. They even have the nerve to acknowledge the possibility of a US/global depression. Still, they refuse to acknowledge the single greatest underlying cause. Instead, they focus on policies, procedures, and circumstances that were born FROM the underlying cause. Dancing their way around the big picture. DON’T FALL FOR IT. Remember: Our national debt was way up BEFORE sub-prime. Consumer debt was way up BEFORE sub-prime. The cost of living was up BEFORE sub-prime. Wall Street profits were obscene BEFORE sub-prime. The middle class were loosing free and clear assets BEFORE sub-prime. Our infrastructure was in bad shape BEFORE sub-prime. Loans from China were taken out BEFORE sub-prime. The dollar was loosing value BEFORE sub-prime. So don’t let these cowardly filthy rich public figures divert your attention or limit your range of thought. THE CURRENT ECONOMIC CRISIS WAS NOT CAUSED BY A SINGLE POLICY OR PROCEDURE. IT WAS CAUSED PRIMARILY BY A MASSIVE TRANSFER OF WEALTH FROM POOR TO RICH. THIS ALSO REPRESENTS A MASSIVE CONCENTRATION OF CAPITAL WORLDWIDE. OTHERWISE, THERE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SUCH A MARKET FOR SUB-PRIME AND THERE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A GLOBAL CREDIT CRUNCH. MONEY DOES NOT GROW ON TREES AND IT DOES NOT JUST FLOAT AWAY. IT ONLY TRANSFERS FROM ONE PARTY TO ANOTHER. ALBERT EINSTEIN TRIED TO MAKE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.
A word for those who respond with the usual ‘I know more than you. Look how smart, knowledgable, and articulate I am’ crap. Let me say this in advance. I don’t claim to be an expert in this field. But I did go on record with these predictions long before any public figure uttered the word ‘recession’. If you search long enough, you will find my early postings from ‘05′ and ‘06′. Including the first draft of this rant. Since then, I’ve gone on record against people like Greenspan, Bernanke, and Paulson. So far, my predictions have been accurate. Like I said. This is not brain surgery. For the mostpart, its simple math. When you concentrate the world’s wealth, you also concentrate its capital and shrink the middle class along with the potential market for every major industry. Homes go unsold. Bills go unpaid. Banks fail. More products go unsold. Jobs are lost. More banks fail. and so on. and so on. It happened 80 years ago. It will happen again. This time on a global scale. Throughout the cycle, the rich will tighten their grip. Concentrating the world’s wealth and resources even further and ensuring the collapse of every major economy worldwide. Think it can’t happen? Think again. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.
Another thing. I don’t want credit for any of this. Otherwise, I would have given my full name a long time ago. As far as I’m concerned, you can put this rant in your own words and take credit for all of it. I don’t care. Just spread the word. Otherwise, the greatest injustice of all time will go down in history unchecked.
By the way. The bailout won’t work. IT WON’T WORK. The plan fails to address the fundamental problem. The middle class don’t need more credit. They need a reasonable share of the economic pie. They also need a lower cost of living and a chance to catch their breath. They need a break from all of the psychological marketing tricks and mass market BS. Most of all, they need to wake up and see the truth. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.
To my surprise, two public figures have found the courage to acknowledge this problem to some degree. On 11.07.07 former presidential candidate Ron Paul mentioned the massive transfer of wealth from poor to rich. He also hinted at the possibility of economic collapse. He did so on ‘Face the Nation’. He was blacklisted almost immediately for doing so. On 9.28.08 former secretary of labor Robert Reich refered to the obscene levels of income inequality as part of a “recipe for disaster”. He mentioned the richest one percent in particular. He did so on ‘Late Night With Conan OBrien’. As far as I know, Albert Einstein was the first to explain the link between extreme wealth and economic instability. He did so in 1949. He explained how the first Great Depression was actually caused by a massive transfer of wealth from poor to rich. He predicted that it would happen again. He was right. Amazing. The prosperity of an entire world is about to be compromised. Almost entirely because of greed. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.
The point about our government printing up more money was that it can’t be done “on a whim” and that there are serious concequences for doing so (weak dollar, higher gas prices, inflation). I never said that it can’t be or hasn’t been done at all. Afterall, those loans from china weren’t infused in the form of Chinese currency. They were infused in the form of our own. Not given to the middle class but instead to the banks in the form of credit. Its done nothing but perpetuate the problem. It never has been and never will be the answer. Sorry if I wasn’t explicit enough the first time. The original draft was written 2 years ago and intended to fit within 300 characters. Anyway, I’m no English major. So if any of you want to re-word this post, feel free to do so. Whatever it takes to make people understand.
Posted by: ano | October 13, 2008, 5:58 am 5:58 am
How can we expect Obama to lead a country with a new spending plan, when he is going totally out of hand on his political ads?
He seems like a very hypocritical person. I have a really uneasy feeling about him.
Posted by: conserned | November 2, 2008, 6:25 pm 6:25 pm