Dodd to Big Three Auto: The Votes Aren’t There For Bailout

THANK GOD.

No more polluted future- alternative energy is the way to go. Just think the Middle East will be ###### at us if we stop buying their oil. I guess they’ve been hearing this rhetoric for over 30 years and they believe we aren’t going to be oil free. The Hydrogen mass transportation buses are now entering our major cities. That’s a clue. More homes are putting solar panels on the their roofs that’s another clue. Wind Mill farms are sprouting up through out the U.S. that’s another clue and hopefully it will continue this infectious pattern.

I hate to say this but GOOD! Let the Dems take all the heat when this goes down the drain! For years we have been bailing the Auto Industry out! It is time for the Auto Industry to kick the Unions out! It is the Union cost that make them uncompetitive! For years the Union has rapped the Big 3! For all you union workers, I am sure that the Big 3 will be very happy to hire you back, might be less per hour but you would still have a job! Better than collecting unemployment!

We nreed to let the system run it´s course. The big three have fallen into this situation of their own accord. For a business to fail, thee need one of three things««« Bad Product«««« Bad management«««« or Bad employees! The Big3 have all of the above. For God’s sake, GM is introducing a new Hummer this year«««« 6mpg«««« get real!!! What are they thinking??? We should allow the chips to fall where they may! If that means bankruptcy, so be it. That will force a change««« the courts will impose new mangement and the unions will be out of the picture. There are plenty of people out there looking for work to replace the union employees. The UAW guys are making around $40/hr«««« new hires in a reorganized company would be able to come in around $15/hr. «««« And there are plenty of people out there that would love to have the opportunity! If everyone in the current businesses of the Big3 lost their lobs because of the situation, nearly everyone currently loking for an opportunity would jump tight in and fill the void! Net loss of jobs««« nearly ZERO!! As far as the proposed bailout goes—–”Spending billions of additional federal tax dollars with no promises to reform the root causes crippling automakers’ competitiveness around the world is neither fair to taxpayers nor sound fiscal policy,” Doesn’t seem like rocket science to me!

I’m glad to hear there is not enough support. But keep letting your Congressional reps know you are opposed to this legal form of stealing from taxpayers.

YOMAMA ««««« I agree 100%. The foreign companies aren’t doing great, but they’re not in the line with ther hands out either. And««« they never will be! they’re smarter that that. It’s called cut and run! If it no longer makes good business sense, then they know not to continue. Look at DHL—- it’s just not a profitable situation««« thank you very much, but we’re out of here! But these guys in Detriot don’t have a clue! They continue to invest all of their money in the development of products that no one wants! That’s first and foremost why the foreign manufacturers are here!!! Because the American public wants wht they have. Last person leaving Detroit, please turn out the lights!

Here is what they should do. Do not give the banks the money instead talk to all world leaders. Have what they call a jubilee in the bible. Everyone is cleared of their debts around the world. All corporations all businesses all home owners all car owners all banks, all credit cards are clear and everyone starts over with good credit because no one is in debt. Even hospitals, churches, nursing homes everyone and everything is debt free.
the banks will have money to loan to people and this time do it correctly. People will not have credit card debts so they qill spend more giving businesses more money. Corporations will be able to hire more people. New businesses will start up. the auto industry will pick up business. Everyone will be a winner here.

Obama has made promises to the UAW and he means to keep them. The big three will get their bailout and the taxpayer will get fleeced once again. The only recourse we have is to contact our legislators and tell them no no no money for the car makers. There are other car companies in the US like Toyota who are very successful and actually make a profit. But the do not have the demands of the UAW to meet so the price per car is less.

Bo from GM has been on the back of suppliers for a number of years, no breaks, no help only give, give, give to GM. Where is Bo now, what is he saying? Bo is out there with hat in hand looking for a handout from the Government. Bo are you still out there? Are you ready to help the supplier???????????

Since when did $15 per hour become low income? That’s $31,200 with no overtime, which I am sure you will still get. Be glad that it’s $15 /hour and not minimum frickin wage! If you can’t afford to buy a house, rent an apartment, save the 20% down payment and wait like every other responsible American. Get use to living within your means. I get so sick of hearing that “I have kids to support and bills to pay.” Hello, you made those decisions for yourself. Don’t put this on the American taxpayer’s back to support and bail you out. Tough it out like everyone else would. Trust me, you’ll be better off in the end.

Maybe GM should be right sized and build a few models of highly reliable cars—oops that would be Honda and Toyota NO BAILOUT STOP the Madness

It would be one thing if the US automakers were experiencing a temporary economic anomoly, but their systemic problems go deeper and have been in the making for 30 years or more. Bailout money might keep them afloat temporarily, but I would be willing to bet we’d be right back here in 2-3 years.

I don’t need to contact my congressman. He voted against the $700 billion financial bailout. There’s no way he would support one for the auto industry. I didn’t vote for Senator Rep. Saxbee Chambliss because he voted for the $700 billion bailout, and now he’s in a dead heat runoff with his democratic challenger. And although he’s more of a slease, I’ll let the cards fall where they may. I’m tired of voting for any of these guys.

oh well, who cares about 2 million jobs?

Dcitizen…couldn’t agree with you about the incompetent men & women in Congress…the biggest incompetent person is PELOSI, next is REID & DODD, who is Chairman of the Senate Banking & Housing committee. I guess Dodd couldn’t forsee the banking industry failing. He is just as crooked as all the CEO’s of AIG, Goldman Sac, Bank of America, Fannie Mae & Freedie Mac.. We need California to vote out Pelosi and Connecticut to vote Dodd out. I guess this will upset PElosi & REID who demanded that Bush bails out the big 3 auto makers.

Think about the guys on the front lines, that have dedicated their lives to this company. The big wigs are the ones that have made bad decisions and they still take home million dollar bonus paychecks. You’d think that the bad performance over the years would have squashed that. GM has needed new leadership for years. Why don’t they forgo their bonuses for a few years to save the company from this crisis.

the feds can spend another 8 trillion in the next 4 years without a sweat…

Just remember, the job you save may be your own.

Sure, don’t bail out the auto industry, then when you go on unemployment then we can cancel your unemployment benefits too.

I never understood the hate for unions… Shouldn’t we be happy that some people are actually getting a living wage for hard work? These people bust their butts… most have missing fingers or other permanent disfigurement as a result of their jobs.. a lot of them die on the job… I’ve seen men fall into vats of acid… but, hey, they don’t deserve a decent rate of pay. The union bashers all blame the unions, but never eek a word of complaint about senior management who get multi-million dollar contracts…
Toyota and other foreign manufacturers use union labor here, and yet you don’t hear people praising unions as a result of that… maybe y’all should!
So, let GM fail… 2.5 million jobs isn’t a big deal, is it? I mean, what 30% unemployment in Michigan is just grand for the economy! If you let GM go down, then pretty much the great depression II will come with it!
All GM needs is some cash to float them until February, at which time, they will have scaled down enough to pay the money back… it’s not a giveaway, nor a handout, and it is going to be extremely necessary…
If GM goes into chapter 7 bankruptcy, we’re talking about a huge shock to the economy that will last 2 decades at least… 2.5 million good paying jobs are hard to replace…. not to mention that the state of Michigan will be essentially destroyed… might as well just nuke it, it would be a more merciful end to a good state with good people than what you “kill GM” folks want to do…

“Don’t know why the media isn’t reporting this but here’s a list of the executive compensation for the big three automakers for 2007. Get ready to seethe in anger!”
But… but… but… all the right wingers say that it’s the Unions that are to blame!!! Executives are never at fault!

“One of the best reasons why Detroit automakers should not receive a bailout can be found in a General Motors “Jobs Bank” program that, bizarrely, pays employees not to work.”
Blah… more union hate… pick some weird example and decide that every hard working line worker is somehow corrupt… If you want to blame anyone, blame management for agreeing to such a stipulation of the contract, not the unions who are fighting to have hard working americans get decent pay… why would anyone hate the idea of hard work being rewarded?

Nothing would make me happier than to watch the Big 3 swirl down the drain. I’m so sick of hearing about a bailout for Detroit. It would help NOTHING. Let them die on the vine. They are overdue for death. There are enough automakers (Toyota, Honda, etc) to pick up the market share. It’s high time we stop the bleeding. Thank you, Sen. Dodd.

“Unions are ultimately going to be responsible for the downfall of this country. Organized extortionists who are never happy with what they squeeze out of their employers.”
But, it’s great when it is the other way around, right? I mean, in your economic utopia, if no one gets paid a decent wage, how are people supposed to buy the things that get made? Answer me that, einstein?
Henry Ford overpaid his workers so that they could afford his cars… how does underpaying everyine make an economy work?
BTW, Toyota and Honda all pay the same high wages here in the US, but I don’t hear your union hate on them?

Democrats sure want their hands in every Coporation, company and busisness in the country.
Complete take over of the nation coming up.
Staged and played out by the Democratic party.

WE HAVE TO GET PELOSI OUT OF THERE!! SHE IS THE RING LEADER IN ALL OF THIS BAILING OUT!!!

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society.
That is what is being proposed here. Nothing more nothing less by both sides of the table using the term ‘bail out’.

Alright people, don’t forget how General Motors got into this mess. Keep saying over and over again, GMAC (the financial arm of General Motors) bought into the sub-prime mortgage market when they should have been financing automobiles. GREED and an attempt to ride the housing bubble is what pushed GM into certain bankruptcy. Oh, and they also sell cars nobody wants to buy! In addition, Park Avenue-based Cerberus and their 51 percent stake in GMAC – the owner of a massive subprime mortgage portfolio – is looking increasingly problematic. And when you factor in the sale of Chrysler to Cerberus Capital Management back in May using the derivatives in question, well you’re actually bailing out Cerberus’ Board of Directors and Top Management not Genral Motors nor Chrysler. By the way, you don’t see FORD whining. Solution: FIRE THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, NO BONUSES, ONE DOLLAR A YEAR SALARIES FOR TOP MANAGEMENT, NO DIVIDENDS AND EVERY PENNEY OF TAXPAYER MONEY PAID BACK!

First, there is plenty of blame to go around. Unions with extremely lucrative contracts. The government which unlike Japan and Korea has not imposed meaningful fuel efficiency standards on our manufacturers. The public who for years wanted to buy gas guzzlers. And the auto companies for doing everything they could to resist change. I can’t speak for the other 2 but I follow Ford and they have hired Alan Mulally who turned around Boeing and are FINALLY bringing their European models to the US. Check out ford.co.uk There is a Fiesta model that gets over 60mpg and pollutes less than a Prius. And are we just trying to prove a point. The estimates vary widely but between 2 and 6 million people could lose there jobs. The US government could lose $60 billion in the first year and $156 within the first 3 years if these companies go under. That’s paying out unemployment, tax lost receipts, etc. Are you telling me we are not smart enough to spend some money now to avoid paying many multiples of that down the road? Who is making these decisions!?

Lets remember that when Crysler was bailed out back in the 80′s they paid back the U.S. with interest. It is a loan not a bail out. I believe GM , Ford, and Crysler will pay the money back. We are bleeding jobs by the everday. Putting more people out of work cost everyone in the long run.

OK, I wrote my last post and then I have read more of your statements. Are you kidding me!? You think that Toyota and Honda make fuel efficient cars because they simply wanted to? The Japanese government legislated that they meet strict requirements. Our government has done nothing of the sort. That’s why German cars that are sold in Europe have smaller diesel engines. They have to meet the EU’s requirements. Meanwhile, our government sits back and does nothing and now we find that consumers’ desires and the environment has changed and our companies find themselves on the outside looking in. Do you think Toyota sells the full sized Tundra pickup in Japan? No, they save it for the US where our appetites and legislation make it the perfect market for such a thing.

When they stop giving C.E.O/’s a million dollars a monthh….is when I will CONSIDER helping them out .

Let GM file for bankruptcy. That way the Union’s contract is can be voided by the Bankruptcy judge, CEO’s, CFO’s and upper management probably will have to take pay cuts. Bankruptcy Judge has A LOT of control on who gets paid what. I guess the Dem’s don’t wantt the UAW to be broken up…what are the Dem’s afraid of losing? PAC money
Please PELOSI & REID & DODD, tell me why you don’t want GM filing for Bankruptcy?

” That is how it is done in the REAL world not the UNION world.”
Maybe the real world should be more like the union world! Instead of resenting union workers, why not form a union yourself and get the good benefits and wages you deserve?
I’ve worked in many a union shop, and I’ve never seen anything even close to the stories you are telling… these are all urban legends… the reality is people die or are maimed on the job every day in these plants… it’s very hard work and you are treated like absolute garbage by management… UAW workers have many years cut off their lives thanks to the toxic and dangerous conditions they work in… getting a decent paycheck for hard work is the heart of the American Dream isn’t it? Why the hate?
If you want to blame anyone, blame the fact that GM has to pay health benefits, whereas Toyota and Honda get the benefit of universal health care paid for by the taxpayer. They don’t have that burden. Make health care affordable in the United States, and business will thrive… even “hated” GM!
Listen if GM is going to fail, it’s going to fail… but, let’s face it, the U.S. economy cannot afford the loss of 3 million jobs at this point in time… if anything, GM should be eased out of business to prevent a ripple effect throughout the economy… I think you can agree with me on that…
Any money that the govenrment loans them will be paid back… If banks had any money to loan out at all, GM wouldn’t even be in this predicament… this is an unusual situation that calls for an unusual and temporary remedy. There’s too much at risk to just let an american icon go belly up without at least a fight to save it!

Many taxpayers don’t realize that local and state governments had given GM plants many tax breaks and grants over the years. No more taxpayer money given to the American auto industry. Let them file bankruptcy and force the UAW to make huge concessions. The whole industry needs reorganization to make them competitive. Their products are junk and too costly. Throwing more money at a bad business model won’t solve anything.

Mike, if GM filed for Bankruptcy, the creditors can’t touch their assets. GM uppers will have to go to the bankruptcy judge with a budget and a payment plan. Which means the UAW has to re-do their contract and that has to be approved by the Bankruptcy judge. All salaries are frozen or pay cuts, jobs eliminated and approved by the judge. Lets remember the GM mess also is caused by their subsidary GMAC, which made risky loans to homeowners. Which could mean that GM could double dip, getting a bail out for their bad home loans and then another bail out for the manufacturing of cars. Doesn’t sound fair to me. Ford isn’t crying about not having enough money. Toyota isn’t crying either. I also don’t feel bad for GM, because they made auto loans to individuals that couldn’t afford a new car in the first place. Zero down 6 year financing available and if you still owe a balance on the existing car loan NO problem we will roll that balance into the new car loan. Sorry but GM and UAW deserve to fail or file chapter 11. NO BAIL OUT. as for UNIONS, they suck. The brick layers/mason union couldn’t even supply 150 brick mason for a job that we got 4 years ago. The union said we have 20, and I needed 150. Just a little short. we went non-union and it has been the best thing that the company that I work for has done. Everyone gets paid the say as if they were still in the union but no fringe union benefits. Why did Toyota build a plant outside of San Antonio, so that they didn’t have to deal with UNIONS. There are no shortages of man powers either. NO UNIONS. You are worried about a worker getting injured? That is why we have workers compensation in Texas. It is easy to file as well. Or you can take out long term disablity insurance cheap if you are afraid of getting injured. UAW president for the GM plant in Arlington, TC was on the local TV, saying I guess we will have to cut back on the overtime….

For YEARS, automakers have been fighting congress tooth and nail over emissions and fuel-economy standards. It would “cost too much” to re-design and re-tool plants to make clean, fuel-efficient cars. Every time congress has attempted to pass more stringent standards, the American automakers have whined about it. (And, if memory serves, this is NOT the first time American automakers have gone to the US government asking for bailout money.)
Anybody else remember the “fuel crisis” of the early 70′s? You didn’t see all that many Datsuns, Toyotas, etc. on American roads before that. But when it got to the point that you could sit in a line for hours, waiting to buy gas, only to get to the pump and discover that the tanks had run dry, people decided fuel-economy was something they needed. And the only people making cars that had good fuel-economy were overseas makers.
Instead of gradually making their way towards cleaner and more efficient vehicles, US automakers dreamed up SUVs and Hummers. So now, when things get tight again, I have little sympathy for either the automakers or the people that drive those polluting gas-guzzling monsters.
And while I do honestly believe that “the worker is worthy of his hire”, I also think something is pretty screwy when a totally non-skilled assembly line factory worker is earning several times the wage of college graduates. I’m not opposed to unions per se, but I think — when the union keeps demanding higher and higher wages with more and more increased benefits — just to justify their existence, to the point where the company is in real financial trouble, perhaps it’s time to kick the union out and start over. I do know that Nissan plants in this country are union, but I don’t see Nissan holding their hand out.
While I would have been in favor of some government assistance in re-tooling American auto factories back in the 70′s to make them competitive in the global market, as far as I’m concerned, they made their bed and it’s time for them to lie in it.
No bailouts.

I am not an economist, only an accountant, so I am not an expert. That being said, I fail to see how propping up the auto industry will help if no one is buying their cars. The botttom line is the only thing that will save a manufacturing company is to sell their product at a profit. Barring that, giving or loaning money is only postponing the inevitable.

I don’t understand how wall street hacks are superior than the backbone of the manufacturing industry in the United States. You’d think that industries that actually make things would be more deserving of a “bailout” than corrupt moneychangers on Wall Street.

Unions are moronic when they ask for so much and they forget that there is an employer on the other side that needs to be profitible to stay in business. No profit – no jobs, sure doesn’t seem to be that difficult to understand. GM should be allowed to go bankrupt because it would be the best thing for the company in the long run. They can reorganize without the unions and once again be competitive.
The unions might have played a useful role 100 years ago but today they are an impediment to sound business practices. They simply extort money from the companies they work for and destroy American competitiveness.

Two points: (1) Why are there so many different name plates in each of the big three companies? Doesn’t this cause a lot of pointless inventory keeping? Why can’t the cars in the US and Europe have the exactly same regulations and therefore be easily imported/exported? (2) The US auto makers have lost customers also because they do not stand behind their product: They try to deny warranty repairs and even safety recalls. Any bailout should have very strict conditions to be met by both managers and the unions. (Not much hope here. Did you notice that Congress “forgot” to specify that the banks given bailouts should not give dividends to shareholders? Oy!)

We aren’t killing the American automakers by not bailing them out, they are already dead. They died a slow death at the hands of the UAW and short sighted, greedy management. If GM wants to be reincarnated they should be forced to file chapter 11 and reorganize like Delta Airlines had to do. It ain’t easy but, they will emerge a much more competitive company.

One last comment here; the money that General Motors is asking for now is to pay retirement and pensions. That is why they can draw money from the $25B that is already approved because it must be used for development of fuel efficient vehicles and retooling. So the automakers are asking the American taxpayer to pay for retirement benifits while tens of thoudands of jobs are being lost in all sectors of the economy. I don’t see the logic in that.

The big three auto should MERGE into ONE!!!!

Well Congress you guys have been had once again, what this tells me is the Congress needs to establish some rules that govern themselves.. 1. Joe the Plumber need not apply. 2. Should have some qualifications to govern not the PTA and the beauty pagent queen going to congress and not knowing a blanket blanket about what they are accepting or denying or voting present for.

“Then the union has the nerve to ask the Auto Manufacture to pay for the loss wages while the union worker was on strike. ”
The UAW hasn’t had a strike in over a decade…
“Heck on one job I have a brick layer make close to $90,000 in one year due to all the overtime.”
That’s nice… if it wasn’t for unions, there would be no overtime… Unions made the push for overtime and helped make that into law. BTW, does that bricklayer get cheap health care and an affordable pension? Probably not! He’d be better off making less money as a union worker ‘cos of the security and benefits that he’d get…
Without the wage competition from unions, that bricklayer wouldn’t be getting the rate of pay you are giving him as an incentive to stay out of the union.
No union, no $90,000 job for your pal the bricklayer.

“They simply extort money from the companies they work for and destroy American competitiveness.”
‘Cos American business is always good to the American worker, right? Your whole idea of “saving” the auto industry is by totally screwing the workers… the CEO’s in your world get a free pass… In your world, it’s always the guys who work for a living who are at fault, not the management. No wonder you folks lost the election.
It’s amazing how many people here hate unions without any basis in fact… perhaps if you ever had to get your hands dirty for a living, you’d feel differently…

“China has made it work.”
China is going to spend a half a trillion dollars bailing out there companies…
Interesting choice of example you make there… China believes in public investment in capitalism… no wonder they are eating our economy for lunch!

I hope the auto co.s going broke breaks the UAW for all the damage its done to this country.

To have a fee market society and unbridled capitalism, you must have both risk and reward as well as success and failure. This is a case of a company refusing to acknowledge that it has failed, not failing, but failed. GM has acted arrogant for years thinking they are the best automaker in the world. WRONG, they make inferior products, and have maintained the status quo in the face of tremendous change, so now they must pay the price. Take Sprint for example, for years they were the biggest cellular telephone company, they offered the newest phones but horrible service and treated their customers poorly. The now teeter on the verge, laying off people almost daily. Why; because they too were arrogant, there are multiple companies like this and the end result is always the same, they become history. GM is not failing, they have failed, they just don’t want to admit it yet, because they are hoping for one last handout from the government. No amount of Bailout money will save these companies, the Union is a disease that saps them of all their resources, then like child, irresponsibly demands more, the business model is broken and beyond repair. Bankruptcy is the best option for GM at this point, yes people are going to loose there jobs, and some will take incredible pay cuts, however, most will still have a job.

I know a GM retiree who recently received a $700 check from GM. This goes on several times a year. GM hasn’t made a profit in four years, yet their employees receive these payments. Go figure.

It took a two-day strike, extraordinary solidarity and more than two months of tough bargaining for 73,000 UAW members at General Motors to bring home a new contract with unprecedented product and investment commitments.
With the protection of U.S. manufacturing jobs at the top of the union’s bargaining agenda, UAW negotiators insisted on — and won — solid pledges from GM to build specific products in specific plants.
GM also agreed to a moratorium on outsourcing, a pledge to insource more than 3,000 UAW jobs and a commitment to hire 3,000 temporary workers as permanent GM employees.
The agreement will deliver more than $13,000 in economic gains for a typical UAW member, including a $3,000 signing bonus, two 3 percent lump sums and a 4 percent lump sum. Must be nice to get a signing bonus. When I worked I never got a signing bonus, even after 10 years at the same company.

Chapter 11 – reorganize their finances and change their business model, that’s the only way. Delta Airlines did it and it was very painfull for them but they emerged a leaner, more competitive company. The American automakers have a abundance of fat to trim from. What they need is a real CEO that can make it happen though. The current CEO’s can’t see past their out stretched hand.

Notice below GM holds 29.9 billion dollars for UAW benefits…F.U. UAW, either take a pay cut or lose your job…..Pay cut goes to uppper management as well……The agreement will deliver more than $13,000 in economic gains for a typical UAW member, including a $3,000 signing bonus, two 3 percent lump sums and a 4 percent lump sum. Active workers will see their comprehensive health care coverage continue, with dental, hearing and other benefits improved. Retired workers will have their health benefits secured by a Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA), prefunded by GM with $29.9 billion in cash and other assets. The fund can only be used to pay retiree health benefits, and will remain solvent for decades regardless of the financial condition of GM.
The proposed contract will also deliver benefits to current and future retirees, with four lump-sum payments for current retirees, and a raise in basic benefit rates, the 30-and-out supplement, temporary and interim benefits for future retirees.
The company came into these talks looking to shred our contract to pieces,” said UAW Vice President Cal Rapson, who directs the UAW GM Department.
An entry-level worker’s performance bonus will be equal to 3 percent of qualified earnings during the previous 52 pay periods. Performance bonuses will be paid in May 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011, based on April eligibility dates. Entry-Level Benefits
Entry-level workers will be covered by a separate benefit plan, including the following elements:
• A cash balance defined-benefit retirement plan: GM will deposit 6.4 percent of workers’ wages into a portable retirement plan, which will accrue interest tied to the 30-year U.S. Treasury bond.
• Health care plan: Entry-level workers will be covered by a health care plan, with annual in-network deductibles of $300 single/$600 family. Coinsurance will be 10 percent in-network, with an annual cap on out-of-pocket expenditures of $1,000 single/$2,000 family. To defray these costs, GM will reimburse workers up to $300 single/$600 family annually from a flexible health care spending account. Entry-level workers will be eligible for dental coverage and a vision exam after three years, and for full vision coverage after five years.
• Supplemental Unemployment Benefits: Entry-level workers with at least one but less than three years seniority will be eligible for 26 weeks of SUB. That increases to 52 weeks (which can be extended) for workers with three or more years seniority.

“Must be nice to get a signing bonus. When I worked I never got a signing bonus, even after 10 years at the same company. ”
Then maybe you should organize a union at your workplace. Instead of hating others for doing well, maybe you should demand better for yourself instead of insisting that everyone else be dragged down to your level!
I don’t hear you griping about executive pay. They’ve got it much better than anyone… but, I haven’t heard any executive hate from you! Why aren’t you as jealous of executives as you are of union members?

I’m a Democrat tired of you UAW boys being on vacation all the time. You think I want to use my money to bail all you slackers out?

“And yes, unions are LONG past their usefulness. My wife works in one now, she had no choice by the way, and I’ve worked in them before. ”
Well, then, maybe your wife should forgo her generous medical and pension benefits if being in a union is so awful for her… It can’t be that bad if she hasn’t quit her job, yet… oh, and you should also forgo your pension money that you earned while being in those union jobs… since you hate unions so much!

Some people seem to have confusion about union dues. Monthly dues to the UAW are used for operational and organization efforts. Political contributions are entirely voluntary thru the membership. And FYI I have not been on vacation for some time.

“Good, don’t bail them out! My father works for Chrysler and my husband is part of the UAW and I still don’t support this. Why should we continue to give money to people that are running these businesses into the ground?! The workers don’t help matters either- they are greedy and get ridiculous benefits because of the UAW. Let the whole thing collapse. ”
So you want your family out of work, and are complaining that your husband gets good benefits? You want a worse life for yourself and your family? That makes no sense!

“It took a two-day strike, extraordinary solidarity and more than two months of tough bargaining for 73,000 UAW members at General Motors to bring home a new contract with unprecedented product and investment commitments…. When I worked I never got a signing bonus, even after 10 years at the same company.”
Maybe if you and your coworkers did the same thing, you would have gotten that signing bonus! Something to think about…

Look at the Big Corps. that employ a tremdous amount of people that are in trouble…Steel industry, Auto industry, Airline industry and all 3 have UNIONS….Looks like the regular JOE the Plumber type of business is doing just find and haven’t run their company into financial problems like the unions. Lets add in the greedy CEO’s & upper management. For a hourly employee, with maybe a high school education, to make over $50 an hour to screw in bolts on a car that starts to fall a part after 4 years is Ridiculous. For a teacher to get paid $15 to 20 an hour to teach our kids is WRONG. Unions have screwed the U.S. in the last 40 years, sure they have looked out for their workers but at MY expense and everyone else that have purchase a car from the Big 3. The next car that I purchase will NOT be a GM or Ford. Sorry but I don’t feel sorry for anyone that works for the Big 3, let them file Chapter 11, you can collect unemployement from your Union and the Gov’t. Unless the Union bosses have spent your hard earn dues on vacations to Europe and Mexico…

What about those who retired from GM with a pension and health care. My parents are scared to death they will lose of this if GM goes under. They will be on welfare, then what?

“What about those who retired from GM with a pension and health care. My parents are scared to death they will lose of this if GM goes under. They will be on welfare, then what?”
Most of the people here seem to be thrilled at the thought of your parents being thrown out into the street… lots of hate going around!

mike,
The proof is in the pudding isn’t it? If the UAW is making great cars then why are the sales figures for the big 3 shrinking? Why are non-UAW operators like Toyota thriving? GM has a huge financial burdern thanks to the outrageous compensation deal they worked out with the UAW, thats why these UAW cars are so expensive and they dont sell well in the market. Also the quality of these unionised factories is also questionable.

“Do you hate executives as much as you do union members?”
The greedy ones with their “golden parachutes”, totally outrageous salary and perks packages, and their company paid-for “retreats” at posh resorts where they play golf and get massages but do nothing really pertaining to business, while driving their companies into the ground and then insisting that taxpayers foot the bill for their own stupidity and greed?
You bet I do!
“What about those who retired from GM with a pension and health care. My parents are scared to death they will lose of this if GM goes under.”
Janet, this is truly unfair. I’m sure your parents are worried sick about this, and I truly feel for them. But it’s not my responsibility to pay for their retirement. I would if I could, but I’m barely making ends meet as it is.
And asking the taxpayer to cover this is doing just that. Asking me to make good on your parent’s retirement account.
One of the items on this website today talked about the CEO of Lehman Brothers having put up some art for auction, and it *only* made something like $13 million instead of the $20 million it was expected to bring.
How about we get all those greedy, over-paid executives to give back all the money they essentially stole from the businesses and give them a *reasonable* pension instead. I’m guessing, if that happened, there’d be enough money to fund the pensions they robbed, and your parents would be assured of not having to live on dog-food in their elderly years.

Mike, my retirement plan is tied up in the stock market…mutual funds. What about MY retirement plan….Unions had a place in America but times have changed and Unions can’t be making demands that are unreasonable. For an person that screws in bolts to make more than teachers is insane. In down times everyone (including salary & hourly employees) can either take pay cuts or watch their company go under and become unemployed. As for retired auto workers.. go complain to your Union boss about all the money that you invested into their pension plan….Beside half of the money invested in the pension plan is what Ford or GM agreed to matched per the Union agreement. So be thankful that your employer match your contributions. My parents just lost $200,000 in a bank that failed…So what about my parents and their retirement money that went to greedy CEO’s?

Mike, hard working or not….no one deserves 30 to 40 dollars an hour to be a production associate…..unless you are putting together stealth fighters or something. The Unions and management are not good for anything…both are self serving and will end up putting the companies that they represent into Chapter 7. They need to fail and some one else open the doors. At 15 to 20 dollars an hour with OT, you will work out between 45K and 65K a year. With no education.

“I don’t understand why you want to drag other people down though… wouldn’t you rather lift yourself up?”
Mike, riding “the gravy train” has never been the American way of lifting ourselves up. In fact, it is normally seen as being rather immoral. Look at the people that bought up land for a pittance, knowing the railroad was going to go through the area, and then re-sold the land for outrageous prices. Yeah, they might have made fortunes doing it, but there’s a reason they’re known as “robber barons.”
In this country, most people see education as being the key to self-betterment. This is why so many immigrant parents willingly lived a life of extreme poverty so that their children could have the opportunity to go to school. This is why, even now, middle-class couples sit at the dining room table after their children have gone to bed and tried to figure out how they could fund college accounts for their children. Scholarships, student loans, whatever it took.
So to tell me that, after 4 years of being a “starving college student” (sometimes literally), if I want to “lift myself up” I should drop my degree in the shredder and go get myself a job doing manual labor is absolutely NUTS!
In that regard, I have to agree with Mariposa: “For a hourly employee, with maybe a high school education, to make over $50 an hour to screw in bolts on a car that starts to fall a part after 4 years is Ridiculous. For a teacher to get paid $15 to 20 an hour to teach our kids is WRONG.”
There are, I think, a number of factors that should go into determining what a particular job is worth, as far as wages. And yes, one of them is how hard the work is *physically*. I look at the guys that come by my house collecting trash each week, and I hope to heck they’re making more than minimum wage. They’re out there in all types of weather, rain or shine, 105-degrees in the shade or -20. They’re lifting heavy trash cans every few feet along the curb, and doing it hours at a time, day after day. Undoubtedly they *should* be paid more than the cashier at the local grocery store that just stands there running items across a scanner.
But that pay should also depend on the amount of time, effort and money that is spent getting the education to do it. You can’t be even an elementary school teacher in this country without a bachelor’s degree. And with good reason! We *trust* those teachers with our children every school day! And they don’t just teach our children “the 3-R’s” but life-lessons they’ll use their entire lives. Do you think chasing a bunch of first-graders around all day is any less strenous than bolting a part onto a car as it rolls by on an assembly line is?
Doctors and lawyers (among others) get paid “the big bucks” because they have to spend *years* in school to learn how to do what they do. And that school ain’t free.
And what if all the college graduates in this country all dropped their degrees into the shredder and decided they’d just go to work in a unionized manufacturing plant (where they could get at least twice the wage) instead? While manufacturing is certainly a big part of this country’s economy, it most certainly isnt the *only* thing that matters. What kind of unemployment figures do you suppose this country would face if all the graduates did that? Think they’d all be welcomed into the unions with open arms?
Suggesting that people who elect to go to school in order to get *out* of menial labor jobs and make a better living is to “drag other people down” and then attempting to try to put them down because you think that’s “elitist” thinking shows just how out of touch you really are.

Mike…..once again….no assembly line worker/production worker should be making 30 to 40 dollars an hour….unless you are working on some type of pay for performance and you are just that good. Unions are self serving and have not looked out for you. If they had looked out for the good of the employee and company the problems would not be so great. Just like every other big business in this country; greed is the guiding policy and greed is why we are at the crossroads we are at now. Unions are no longer useful or beneficial. There are enough laws that protect the worker. I have supervised in restaurants, textiles, auto industry(no union where I was), and laminate flooring. With OT there are several folks where I work now that will make more than my salary of 60K.

Fran, if you typed all of that; I am impressed.

I think it’s funny how many Repubs are against an auto industry bailout. All of you lined up behind your party for the financial industry bailout. Why? It’s because it was for big business and big executives within the financial industry. Now you’re looking at the auto industry’s problems, pointing to the union workers, and saying it’s their own fault. LOL! Do you believe that the greed of Wall Street executives is any more acceptable than union workers being paid $40 per hour? I’m not for bailouts, but let’s point the fingers at the proper parties in ALL of these industries.

Mike, I have supervised in a production facility of some kind for the last 12 years. The people that have hurt them selves did so because they did something they should not have done…ie…follow job procedures and safety procedures. There are very few accidents….mostly people taking short cuts….I dont think the union would have done them much good. This country has turned into a nation of consumers instead of producers and we should be focused on making the USA more self reliant….BTW…starting pay at 16.00 hour is GOOD.

FemaleVeteran,
I’ve re-read some of your posts here, and I think I had some of your points confused with another poster. I do apologize for any hostile tone… You bring up some good and valid points…
I agree that teachers should be paid more, BTW… ironically, if they weren’t unionized, they’d be paid even less!
And yes, I definitely value education… and I think that there should be good jobs available for educated folks, but I also think that people who do hard manual labor should be compensated fairly as well… The manufacturing industry built this country, and the people who built it should get their just rewards as well.
Henry Ford paid more for his workers than anyone else… the reason why was simple… he wanted his workers to be able to afford his cars. What happens when working class workers all make wal-mart wages? They won’t even be able to shop at wal mart!
I know you are mad at the management of the Big 3… we all are! They’ve made poor choices… but, don’t let that anger doom hard working americans who deserve a fighting chance at the American dream. It’s just a bridge loan. If GM makes it to 2010, it will be in the clear, and America will be better off for it!
Thank you and have a great day! I appreciate your insight… sorry for any misunderstanding…

First, Mike if your union is so great then why is your company taking a nosedive?
Second, I thought the Democrats were the party of Enviromentalism. Why would they want to bailout an industry that is responsible for Global Warming? Seems kind of hypocritical to me.

I only buy/drive GMC pick up trucks and when I travel and rent a rig, I always demand American made vehicles, SUV or pick up period.
I have a one year old GMC truck currently and do not want to see GM go under. But, I say NO to any bailout.
The Obamunist administration will see to unionizing every industry and the other auto makers will also go down in a few years time, like GM is now.
Market trends should dictate industry standards, NOT government mandates. The energy crisis is manufactured, to justify government takeover every of aspect of our lives.
If a bank, insurance company, auto company, anything, is going down, let it go. There is a reason for it. This becomes an opportunity for others and leads to a healthy economy.
Allowing the government to pick winners and losers in business is SOCIALISM and will BANKRUPT this country.
NO BAIL OUTS!