Closing Arguments: Bailout Collapse Blame Game

UAW has failed their workers in not accepting immediate wage cuts.
Unfortunately, it shows a very shortsightedness, that may lead to their workers having no jobs at all.

The UAW is being foolish. Geting a pay cut is better than having no job at all.

Oh yeah the UAW should have given up part of their salaries…. They are the reason the automotive companies are in the position they’re in now. Its amazing the the Japanese can operate in the south and not have the labor costs that the Big 3 have… Its the UAW’s fault and so they should be part of the solution.

Yes, the auto workers should have been willing to take a pay cut to keep their jobs. They have a reputation for the best union wages in the country. Well, perhaps the union could chip in as well.
Their families are probably living as close to the edge as we are in upstate NY, but a little less money is better than being laid off.

Absolutely the UAW should have accepted wage cuts. I’m a union member but its obvious the UAW is one of the main reasons the big three are in the position they are in. Had the UAW never been formed, all three auto manufacturers would have had plenty of liquidity to weather the market.

Yes, the auto workers should be willing to take a pay cut. I have worked in Michigan for 11 years for an auto supplier, we have no options when it comes to layoffs and taking pay cuts. People are making 30% less doing the same work that suto makers are earning becuase there is no union backing them. The union wasn’t formed for outrageous pay but for equality and that is gone.

Everyone needs to make concessions to save the US auto industry, the union and its workers included. The autoworkers can no longer demand inflated wages and compensation when fellow autoworkers at Honda, Nissan, Toyota, BMW and Mercedes turn out high quality cars and trucks for far less.
By not reducing wages some, they may end up with no wages at all, and damage the livelihoods of all other Americans.

No,the American public should not continue to pay for the failed American auto business, The unions should concede before they loose everything and kill the golden goose as they so often do. The bailouts need to end now. No more free money. Companies need to get their finances in order.

Lower pay is better than no job and NO pay!

UAW has thought they were better then everyone else. Big three deserve to go down. 4 paid holidays in November. Election day, opening of deer season, and 2 at thanksgiving.
Long overdue. Go Transplants

This refusal to take wage consession show the pure arrogance of the Auto Unions. They deserve NOT to have been given any bailout
money.

Of course the uaw should have taken a wage cut. I don’t feel a bit sorry for them.

It bothers me that rank and file auto workers earn more than our best teachers. I keep hearing about salaries of 70 to 75 K a year for auto workers. Most teachers do not earn that much(unless you coach football which is a pet peeve of mine).

The auto workers should have taken a pay cut as their contribution to the success of this bail out, after all they will end up loosing the said job if at the end there is no bail out. Can we all show some patiotism at this trying time?

Yes. I think the unions are the root of the auto makers problem. Why do we even need the unions anymore?

The autoworkers get benefits that are far better and more expensive than the average worker. Their pay and benefits need to be brought into line with other US workers. I should not have to pay for their bailout when they are not willing to help themselves. Just like at Delta Air Lines, the union needs to take concessions or the contract needs to be broken by letting the auto companies go into bankruptcy and reorganize.

No way, they have already taken enough cuts. The federal government needs to abolish NAFTA, that is what has caused all the problems to start with. You can’t have free trade with countries that don’t have an OSHA, don’t care about human rights.
It is funny how the folks in Congress hardly took a deep breath before voting to bail out Wall Street, but when it comes to Main Street they have no sympathy for the hard working middle class. Why should we be surprised.
I wonder how many senate seats have been bought and paid for over the years.

Disgusting the way Reid and D’s sold out the workers and some Jr Swineator from TN walks all over them, and then wants to cut pay of Saturn workers in his TN. Yet he was part of big dollar give away for new VW plant that is giving nearly billion away to get VW there. What a horror to tell workers they have to take wage slave pay rates so the old confederacy does not have to worry about their plants (wage) slaves being freed to living wages by a “union” again coming south.. to free the workers. Worse yet most simply have ot caught on if union wages GO DOWN, so will theirs.. So time to replace Reid and hold congress open even if they miss ANOTHER two week break. Make them work for a change., for citizens, not Wall St and banks. Terrible thing Reid did to those that voted for D’s. not a bone in his back.

Yes I think the workers should have been willing to take a pay cut. We have all had to make sacrifices during these hard times. My husband is one who has taken a big cut. I’m afraid many will have to be willing to take a cut, or times are going to get much worse. God help us all.

Lets get the facts straight – your article says $70 per vehicle… don’t you mean per HOUR (worker’s wage)… there are a hell of a lot of people in this country that would be willing to do factory work for $48 per hour, like the foreign automakers’ plants’ wages. If UAW wants to go on strike, let’s make it permanent – no sympathy here… that is just poor union leadership, unless they have a promise from the democrats who the union DONATED HOW MUCH to for campaigns??? I read $80 million… if that is correct, it appears the union has plenty of mone yto throw around – they don’t need MY TAX MONEY, to pay to elect THEIR CANDIDATES… Enough already – this is a greedy union who put themselves out of business – end of story!

Should the auto workers have been willing to take a pay cut to help the bailout pass? — Absolutely not. Auto workers aren’t to blame; management created the problems. Sounds like some members of Congress are more interested in union busting than holding management accountable.

I think the union may live to regret that decision, because it may mean that GM and Chrysler may have to go into bankruptcy.
Then the contracts get thrown out and union works for whatever the automakers are willing to pay or they lose their jobs with no benifets.

Absolutely!! Everybody else has done so or will have to take paycuts or loose their jobs or businesses. What makes them think they don’t have to do their part in this economy? When you have to run for your life you have to get rid of as much baggage as possible. The American auto workers have higher pay and better benefits than most other workers – now it’s time to trim a lot of fat or close shop!! Welcome to the rest of the world.

The UAW is under no obligation to accept reduced wages, just as we are under no obligation to bail them out.
Chapter 11 may be the better route (with the government acting as a guarantor for warranties) instead of the “Brige Loan” approach.
That way, the UAW contracts can be “restructured”, or the UAW can fade to black along with the inefficient business model of US carmakers.

auto workers take a pay cut? You betcha. Our Buick is a piece of cr*p! Our Honda is wonderful. The Honda people should get more.

Why should the UAW shoulder the blame for the Auto makers bad strategies? After all, no one at AIG or any of the banks that have been bailed out have been asked to take pay cuts, or even to forgo expensive meetings or bonuses.
The real question is why can’t the Republican senators put aside politics long enough to recognize that whatever problems exist in the auto industry, this is not the time to put millions of jobs at risk?

no they should take a pay cut its very hard out there now for people these days and things are not getting cheaper and i feel like they only asking for a loan they never they wont pay it back so what are you guys trying to do step on the lil guys again we are sick of that always the lil guys have to give up something

I suppose the u.a.w.will want to hang on to their free VIAGRA as long as they can.The U.A.W must go.Why do you think walmart is so successful.

Unbelievable! I grew up with the saying ‘beggars cannot be choosers’. Isn’t something better than nothing? We are at the highest unemployment in 26 years, take the job!

The auto company’s made a terrible mistake for not taking a cut in pay to help the bailout. They must want to go home and relax, because their plants can’t stay open with out help.

Yes, they should be willing to help save their jobs. Take a pay-cut, until the economy gets back on its feet. As it is they stand to lose everything, If, the Auto Industry, files bankruptcy. God Bless them!

Absolutely the autoworkers should have been willing to take a pay cut. There has to be some give & take OR maybe they shouldn’t ask the government for help. How can you ask for help & then say “but we aren’t willing to give up anything”. If the government was willing to step in & bail out the company I work for (which is closing in 3 weeks) I would be willing to take a pay cut.

OH, puhleeze. Did they demand salary cuts for the bankers and wall street hotshots when they bailed them out? No, they got to go to a fancy resort.
The working people in the auto workers unions get paid a lot less than the people on Wall Street who caused our economy to take a deep dive. These workers have not been responsible for the BIG THREE continuing to design and build cars and trucks and SUV’s that don’t economize on gasoline, and don’t work as well or as long as Japanese cars do.
Stop the war on Unions and working people.
How much of the billions to the banks have gone to help homeowners?
The BIG 3 are asking for a lot less than the banks and wall street.

I think they are lucky they got the opportunity to even get help. I don’t think it is the governments job to pick and chose what industries it wants to help. In my hometown the paper just listed two big local businesses that are closing – where is their bailout?
If the automakers want a cheap loan why don’t they ask the oil companies? With the profit margins they recorded since Hurricane Katrina, they have all the taxpayers money. Maybe if the government had tried to do something about the oil crisis, people would be still willing to buy the useless gas guzzlers these automakers are producing. Better yet, if companies did not have to pay so much for gas, then they would not have had to raise their prices for goods such as food, people would have more money to spend and we would not be in the middle of a recession.
So yes, they should have taken the price cut, because now they may end up without a job.

It is amazing that the Republicans are DEMANDING wage cuts from the workers and not Management and more amazing is the no cuts or controls were put in when OUR money was given to the banks- WHY? To add insult to injury nobody has a clue what the banks did with the money. It did not go to help people get credit to buy cars or pay their mortgages. The banks has added more fees to the consumers making thing harder (Citibank has added a $10.00 transaction fee when your line of credit. I call this a discount bounce check fee). If we do not help the Auto workers many more families will be unemployed. I believe the Senate is now trying to make up for the mistakes made in NO control of the money to the banks. Take some of the money allocated to the banks and transfer to the Auto Industry. Again, the banks have done nothing for the People.

I had a friend who worked for a Japanese
company for 6 years they let her go because she stopped the line to much to suit them. they fired her after 6 years. that is WHY we need a union

This is absolutely amazing! No one asked the financial sector employees to take wage cuts in thier bailout!!! I worked in technology for a local bank for nearly 13 years and last year was laied off due to the sale of our bank to a Canadian held bank. Now my husband who has worked for Chrysler for nearly 17 years is in danger due to the mess that these Republicans have created! Oh, and we happen to live in Kokomo, Indiana the #3 fastest dieing town in the United States. Thanks Republicans! We need more unemployment!

Shouldn’t it read $70 per HOUR, not vehicle… Plenty of Americans will work for $48 per hour in a CAR FACTORY!!! Goodbye greedy UAW!

Of course they should have accepted pay cuts! The autoworkers are arrogant, overpaid, whining jerks that deserve to lose their jobs. Let ‘em go bankrupt and reorganize. They make crappy cars anyway that are too overpriced! I’ll stick with my Toyota! It’s NEVER in the shop! Yet my friends Ford Truck ($50,000) spends more time in the service department than on the road!

This situation is ridiculous. If they (the workers)do not work the government has to pay unemployment,so its as broad as its long. Either way the taxpayer must pay the bill.

UAW’s greed and Executive stupidity is what got them here in the first place. YES, workers should accept a 50% pay cut, or lose their job to someone who would really appreciate the opportunity.

The UAW is the reason the auto makers
have been going down the garden path with those outrageous wages, health benefits, and layoff pay that have driven Detroit to the brink. And when push came to shove tonight, the UAW would rather lose their jobs than help their companies by cutting back while there is still time. Russian roulette with the Congress!

Maybe the UAW officials would like to take a cut in union dues instead of the rank and file taking pay cuts. The union is more interested in lining its pockets than it is in its members or the country’s economy.

How stupid are you people? Stop listening to the lying media.
Our economy is crashing because nobody can afford to buy anything on $14 an hour jobs.
That is what the UAW workers have already been cut to.
There’s nothing left to cut.
They are lying to you.
When will you fight for what you work for instead of letting the speculators and “investor class” have it all?
You FOOLS.

No Bailout! If possible all of the other companies that have received aid should have to turn in a report on how the money is being used and include on the contract that is cannot be used for raises or other business trips.
Why do we have to bailout companies that do not have good business management. This sounds personal and they should file for bankruptcy. Every American is having a hard time with their bills, gas, mortgage, and living week to week on what they make. Is anyone giving us money to keep on going. No we do with what we have and do what we have to do to keep going.
We budget ourselves and cut down on luxuries so we can continue to go forward.
All of these companies need to look at where they are spending their money and cut all the luxury from their budget at least until they get back on track. Some of the business meals, luxury conference trips, expensive hotels, airfares, limos, etc. are not all necessary.
We are all having a hard time and some of us have been having a hard time even before the recession.

Folks the $70 cost is also run up by retired and health care and is NOT a real cost to measure against. The $45 in south is not real wage either, most in southern auto not getting 12/hour.. This is simply union busting.. and when unions go down so does your pay.. THE ONLY THING that build the middle class was unions.like them or envy them. they got you your pay and they build the SUVs’ you so loved to drive and CONGRESS gave the tax breaks to buy the SUVs. Where was all the upset at trillions going to banks-wall st? Wake up folks this is just union busting, the final page in Regan’s plan. Read a bit on unions history, they may have got a bit more then you feel they should, but they also were the reason most got real pay and medical etc. Kill them and watch what happens, think abotu it before you get jealous of what they have and ask, whom will stand up for me with the company, and the answer is, be careful what you wish for..So got to ask, why NO comments on shutting down fire and police unions?

Not only YES, but HELL yes. Why do they think what they do is any more important than the rest of us working 2 jobs to make ends meet. They should be grateful they EVEN have a chance to have a job. Companies file for bankruptcy and employees go packing with empty bags.
I’m sick and tired of all these “special” segments of the workforce being given major bailouts because of indulgence, top heavy poor management that allowed their company to crater because they didn’t keep their eye on the business and become proactive months and years ago.
Get a grip auto workers, you are NOT the only people in the workforce. Your job slapping metal together is no more important than doctors and surgeons, yet some of you make twice as much and don’t even have to worry about malpractice insurance.
Your arrogance disgust me and Washington should just say what Nancy Reagan said over 20 years ago….
JUST SAY NO!!!

The UAW are a bunch of greedy, arrogant people. This union has played a huge role in the fall of the big 3. I have been in support of a bailout until now. Let the big 3 die! Bankruptcy will take the power away from the corrupt UAW and force the big 3 into long overdue restructuring. We will all benefit from this in years to come.

I think maybe congress should be paid the same that foreign politicians are. Who do they think is paying for their bloated pay/benefits packages? When we are all making $15.00 per hour, with little or no health care, exactly who is going to be contributing to the income tax base?
This is another attempt to break the backs of unions, after all they are to blame for most of the problems we are facing in this country, right? Also, has anyone considered the fact that the employees of the auto companies are the best customers. Cut that pay and who will be in the market for ANY automobile? I guess it’s still okay to subsidize the foreign companys, 4 plants in Alabama alone have been given help in the form of tax breaks and other goodies totaling about 4 billion dollars. And, do not even bring up the Wall Street bailouts, it sickens me that any of the overtaxed wages of autoworkers went to the fatcat accounts, no questions asked. By the way, where exactly is that money today?
The autoworkers have given wage cuts in the last 3 contracts. They have kept up their end of all the agreements with the company. They also agreed that $1 of their pay would go to the retirees. This crisis is not caused by hourly workers, they have no say in how the company is run. When they lose the base rate, get ready for the trickle down effect in your paycheck, how’s that sound to you?

When taxpayers nationwide are required to kick in tax dollars to keep the Big 3 operating, the UAW’s must give in to salary cuts. They will still make more than most of the taxpayers who are being required to pay their salaries. Times are tough, UAW must be reasonable.

I am a union member who took a 42% pay-cut in the state of Michigan to help save the airline that I work for. I had no choice in the matter. Now, my husband has taken a 50% pay-cut to save his company that is a supplier to the auto industry. The UAW has to get off of their high horse and face reality. If they keep up their high salary demands, they will all be out of a job soon.

Thank you Marty~Start with the Republican Senator from Alabama . The state gave over a billion to foreign Auto manufacturers to come to their state . Eliminating the American made vehicles is eliminating the competion. Wouldn’t his no vote be considered a conflict of interst case?

How many Wall Street bankers were asked to take immediate wage cuts in order to get bailout money? Did AIG get asked not to pay it’s shareholders dividends? Did any Wall Street bank executives get told they would not get a bonus if their company got any bailout money? The answer is no to all of these questions. This is just another example of the haves getting the money while the have-nots go to their tables hungry or watch the bankers take their homes.

I think the republians senator have a serious problem with reality, sure lets let them go belly-up and watch are unemployment go up to 12 to 14 percent and the government have to pick up all the additional expenive of the health care and the retirement from the three company’s, then you figure in all the other suppliers that would go under, I wonder if even the forigen company’s would be able to get parts to build cars .. I feel like this is the last horrah for the republians to control what may happen in the country and they want to be the ones to cripell the country before the democrats take over the mess that already is going on .. we all know that the uaw employee’s have had their head in the sand much to long, but are you going to make them take the blame for all this, that’s just horse $hit .. when you can give all the banks and finanical sector all this money with know strings at all .. you sure did not see them having to come in and BEG FOR THEIR 350 BILLION DOLLARS SO FAR .. I think the auto makers get that it is time for them to put their house in order, and the uaw knows that the sweet ride they have had needs to change … it is going to cost the U.S.goverment 10 times more if the company’s go under and who knows how much longer it will take for the encoomy to get back on track .. the auto industry is the backbone of the country, lets just break it and watch how much more we all will suffer … IDOITS THAT WHAT WE HAVE FOR SENATORS, I GUESS …. like congressman Reid said , we all see tomorrow how the stocks far off the face of the earth .. DUMBER AND DUMBER .. THIS IS NOT FUNNY AT ALL .. STUPID AND DUMB

The reason why the US auto companies cannot make money: Unions! They continue to refuse to make concessions. Unions are doomed. Everyone will lose their jobs now. UAW thank you, you have just confirmed to the American people that you should not exist.

I guess the real question is how greedy one company, one manager, one person can really get. Taking a pay cut is only a drop in the bucket to where the real problem lies. Of course the “blue collar” workers feel the pinch. The real problem is with management and how greedy a huge corporation really is! What good is applying a band-aid to a cut without a good anti-bacterial ointment? The bail out would just cover the wound. Ointment needs to be applied to the real problem…upper management! How big can your bonus be while the company is going down the drain?

The bridge loan for the automakers should have passed. I am more disappointed than ever that the Senate could not get passed their bias to do something good for the people that work for the auto companies. The biggest terrorists in this country are the sorry excuses we call our political representatives. They are trying to destroy the middle Americans, this not right. Auto workers pay taxes in this country as do the auto companies. This talk of taking a wage cut is ridiculous coming from a Senate that makes four times what the average auto worker makes.As an auto worker I would gladly work for less if I could afford to live on less. I do not live high on the hog from the money that that I earn as an auto worker, but I do have a decent life. Please excuse the auto companies for caring about there workers. The badgering of the auto indusrty that has been going on in Washington is shameful on the part of the elected participants. The reason American auto companies have higher cost is the legacy cost from retirees. Can America afford to strip away retirement payments to former workers. Also when I don’t work I can’t pay taxes. I have never been so dissapointed in America in my life. What a bunch of buffoons that we have in Washington. I am sorry that I even had to write this.

The United States of America was dealt a death blow by the arrogance of grossly overpaid Senators with taxpayer funded health care. Many auto manufacturing transplants offer higher wages and better benefits than the domestic automakers. The UAW has given great concessions during the last few contracts, even giving back our pay to fund the VEBA for the retirees who Senator Corker and others want to take the hit for the arrogance of GM management. Our bosses still drive company cars and receive pay far in excess of Toyota counterparts. The biggest difference between the big 3 and the foreign car makers is that we have a huge number of older citizens who Senator Corker believes should be denied any retirement after a lifetime of backbreaking and dangerous work in very unhealthy environments. Senator Corker and friends can continue to “earn” their hugely gross salaries for a part time office job while our senior citizens will suffer. I blame all Americans for their greed and their hatred of all things American. We have a need to condemn anything made in American and rave about foreign made products (and now services). The Harbour report shows that our GM Wentzville plant has been the most productive full size van plant in North America. Indeed, many GM products are cheaper, better quality, and higher mileage than foreign vehicles whose profits go largely to support the nationalized health care system in their home countries. Also, when we lose our jobs, we will take a little bit more of a pay cut when we decide to compete for your jobs. We are used to working in dangerous and extreme conditions for far longer hours than the average American worker does. I am working on my resume as we speak. Yes, I have a college degree, extensive IT training, and a perfect attendance record over a lifetime of working second shift. If I must choose a large pay cut where I work or offer to take the job you do now for a bit of a savings for your company, I know what I will do. When the US economy slips further into the abyss, remember what you drive drives America.

Well the union workers can refuse. There is such a thing a shooting yourself in your foot. Is less money better or no job at all. They will hurt themselves too.
The other question is has top management been pulled in and properly acessed as far as their income. We need to know these things so we have confidence things are going in the right direction.
Unions think they are such bully’s and they can always get what they want.

Lot’s of blame to go around… But the resolution has to start somewhere… I am disappointed the UAW would save a penny to lose a dollar. I watched the airlines, specifically American Airlines go through a similar thing down here in Dallas and the union took a pay cut and kept AA out of bankruptcy. They’re still struggling mainly because of the recent idiotic gas price increase but the union saved AA at the time. Frankly car prices are too high!! It comes down to the benefits the Big 3 continue to pay out for current and retired employees where the average american is paying more causing significant issues as well. Cut CEO pay, get rid of thier fat bonus structures and for god sake take a pay cut to save important jobs.
I can’t wait to see how my 401k takes another big hit when the market reacts to this shear stupidity!!! Thanks UAW!

Maybe the Republicans Senators have finally stepped up to the plate to start getting us real with the rest of the world and what we have to face to be competitive now and in the future. Hopefully this type of required reform will also be extended to Wall Street. Unless we get serious with many of the reforms, we will all be bald instead of just having an unattractive haircut. Bravo for the Republican Senators who have finally showed the courage of their convictions!

One thing that helps put things into
proper perspective is that half a pay
check is still 100% better than no paycheck at all. We have become accustomed to high living and when that is on it’s way out we can not deal with it. But make no mistake. It is on it’s way out. So, what must we now do to keep something we can live with: “PAY CUT!”
But, it must begin at the top. Either
stop the multi-million dollar bonuses
or divide it with all employees.
Or better yet, pay off the current pensions.
But most of all, learn how to make the best cars in the world, as we once did.
No one takes pride anymore in “Made In America!” We made the car. All others are the imitators. And yet the students have surpassed the innovator of it all.
Was greed so rampant that as long as the cars were selling nothing esle mattered?
In final thought, the union may prove to be the worst enemy of all. In their obstinance, they will cause this bailout program to never be.

Yes, the unions should have taken the wage cuts and the executives should immediately give up their bonuses and perks. On the other hand I read that Majority Leader Harry Reid added to the bill a wage increase for Federal judges. That is an outrage to use this critical situation to get “extras” through. That type of action is a big part of our government’s problem.

To all of those who are screeming that Republicans are screwing the UAW and how much the Senators earn. I agree that Congressman have sweet deals but that is besides the question. You jokers who love to blame Republicans for anything and everything are just the worst kind of cynics. Wall street was not bailed out – bankers were given loans to help them have money to lend because Democrats forced banks to make loans to people who could not afford houses they bought. Wake up, you morons and stop looking at Republicans to blame for everything. In this case, Republicans are the only ones looking out for the taxpayers!!!

This is yet another example of how outdated the need for unions are in this country. Greedy unions with over the top benefits are the CAUSE of GM’s financial crisis……union wages have priced these companies out of the market. Most Americans don’t make anywhere near what UAW workers make………yet they have the gall to ask American taxpayers to bail them out. This is ridiculous. I’ve bought my last car produced by the UAW!!!

That’s it republicans, kill the last major manufacturers in the nation, what do you people care about 2 million more unemployed, you have yours and I’m sure you drive European cars anyway.
Pisss on the the middle class.

The UAW is selfish and short-sighted. If the Big 3 go down it’s not just the autoworkers who lose their jobs. It’s all the other vendors who supply parts and materials to the auto industry who lose their livelihood too. The Union has outlived its usefulness. In years when the rest of us took pay cuts and got no bonuses — UAW workers continued to get all of those things. It’s time to get rid of the union, streamline management and turn our auto industry into a viable and productive part of the market place again.

The greed of the UAW is outrageous and must be controlled if we’re to have any kind of success making the big 3 competitive again. The unions ruined the airlines, and that required a cycle of bankruptcies to clean up fat and inflated contracts. Other industries needed the same housecleaning before good management policy could rule the day. Now it has come to the auto industry! If the UAW doesn’t make huge wage concessions, the companies will ultimately die, with or without government assistance. It’s time for strategic thinking; something alien to the union bosses.

I agree that the CEOs should take a hefty cut but the unions need to also help. What other outs are there to avoid a collapse? Even a bailout is only a temporary loan. The bottom line is that both management and employees need to sacrifice or the end is inevitable.

There is an unrealistic expectation in this industry that they are deserving of maintaining current pay while asking for billions of dollars at the expense of others. The great majority of Americans work hard in difficult situations and have to make due with the pay they are given. In the last two years my husband has earned an income less than 30% of what it once was without a choice in the matter. We have made many cutbacks and are making due so far, and are thankful that he sitll has a job. For the auto workers to refuse a paycut while asking for so much seems so out of touch with what is happening to so many.

Betty, you forget that a collapse will leave the autoworkers with ZERO wages to pay for their mortgages, loans, schooling etc! #69/hr is about $138,000 per manyear vs. $48/hr at $96,000. maybe a lesson to fund benefits up front.

FYI, concessions HAVE been made…Repeatedly.
One such concession is that contributions are being made to help cover health care benefits to the tune of about $2500.00 a year. It was arranged to come from negotiated wages, so has never been called a “co-pay” so none of you will ever acknowledge it exists I’m sure. You’re too busy being jealous of those of us who actually went out and applied for jobs and were persistent enough to actually pursue it till we got in the door. Any one of you could have done exactly what we did and possibly gotten my job.
The truth is that odds are a good share of you wouldn’t last an entire shift in the plant I work in. Many new hires, even summer temps, don’t make it till the end of their first shift and still more don’t last a week.
It took 4 years of college courses and working full time plus to do the job I do there. Similar to the teachers mentioned in an earlier post, and other careers I can only assume you’d deem worthy of making a decent living. And I work year round. Honestly, based on how often my son is home from school for scheduled days off, I’m guessing they have at least as many “holidays” during their partial year of work as I do in my whole year. Toss in summer vacation and I’d bet they win that contest.
Would I take a pay cut if that’s what it takes. Generally I do what it takes to take care of my family so I suppose, within reason. I have bills to pay. But I’d expect the same at all levels of the business, not just hourly…again. I’ll also expect the same of those folks on Wall Street who got their hand out, and in the banking industry. Actually, I’m thinking with the deficit our government has, maybe they should take a pay cut as well, and lose their benefits, or at least some of them.
I’d also request that we start comparing apples to apples when it comes to the wages I supposedly receive. I think the media should publish everyone’s total compensation package so we can see just where folks stand. I’d love for them to explain that some of the reasons things seem so disproportionate between domestics and transplants is that they don’t have the legacy costs that domestics have as they haven’t been here long enough to have acquired many if any retirees to be supported. That they most likely don’t need to ask for BRIDGE LOANS because they already have received assistance from our government in the form of incentives to move in and continued support in the form of (UN)fair trade rules and regulations. Our government has created and perpetuated one of the least level playing fields ever in the name of global trade or political correctness or whatever it was that prompted them to sell out American workers.
Do I believe the unions have outlived their usefulness? No. No more than I believe that employers in general will do what is right simply because they are “nice guys” They do what is right because unions fought for workers’ rights to safe work places, and 40 hour work weeks and so many of the other things we ALL have that will most likely go away if/when there is no one there to make sure corporate execs have rules to follow. Welcome back to the sweat shop mentality.
I earn good money. I EARN good money. I work hard. I take pride in my work and do my level best to make a product I can be proud to see on the showroom floor. It’s heavy, smelly, dangerous work and even as one of the younger people in our plant (at 46) my body shows signs of the abuse the job has done to it. One shoulder repaired (for the most part but still painful) the other in need of repair, knees that scream in pain daily, loss if hearing despite religious use of hearing protection, cracked skin on my fingers from the solvents used to clean the Kevlar gloves we’re required to wear are just a few of the signs of how “easy” we have it.
No one in our plant sits around doing nothing. There aren’t enough of us left to have that luxury. When I started there 17 years ago, there were 3700 people employed at our plant. Now we’re down to around 1400 and till they announced our plant was closing in 2009, we were producing much more product than we ever had. Even the very few folks, who, since the closing announcement in October, were in the hated Jobs Bank, were pulled to perform “non-traditional work” filling in where departments were short handed or to cover vacations. They were working. I say “Were”, as that concession was made already in an effort to appease the fat cats on Capitol Hill. I noticed that the media was pretty quiet about that too though.
I appreciate anyone who has actually bothered to read all this. Especially anyone with a mind still open enough to be even a little receptive to the other side of this story. It’s been extremely difficult for me and for my children to see their mom being so hated and terrible things said about me by people who have never even met me simply because of where I work. Especially when they know how hard I HAVE worked.
My job was most likely going away anyway with the announcement of our plant closing and my 17 years most likely not being enough to allow a shot at what I’m sure would have been one of very few transfer possibilities, so I’m doing my best to prepare for another change in career and getting used to the idea of there not being much out there at any level, much less one that will support a family, and one with a member who has some chronic health issues at that. I’m in skilled trades, but the trade I’m in, is not one that has many prospects for women so reality is that my trade won’t help me either. Oh, I’ll find something because I do what I have to for my family. Despite being a lazy UAW auto-worker.

Let me see if I have this right?(Betty)
The annual cost per employee at GM is $143,520 plus the pension cost for all those retired?
Does this include the “Jobs Bank”?
SWEEEEEEET DEAL!!

In past bad times, my brother and I took no pay.
That, I Think if you look it up is not legal. But then again I do not believe you anyway.

The republicans don’t give a damn about the average middle class individual other than to suck them dry. (gas prices until recently) If all the leaders of the auto industry are willing to take a substantial pay cut to boost their businesses who cares, they make a helluva lot more than the average auto worker. It’s the high level executives that had no foresight or brains to manage their companies in a manner which would have prevented this. They should all be removed and new leadership brought in to give the workers some confidence that the same people won’t screw them over again. There’s too darn much politics in all of this to begin with. I feel sorry for the workers who are just trying to survive while all these execs live in luxury even though they screwed up multi-billion dollar companies. It’s utterly ridiculous.

It’s OK for tax payers to sacrifice, but ask a union worker to do with a little less to save their own job, that’s just going too far. Wake up America!!!

Everyone involved in any bail-out (auto management, unions, banks, mortgages, etc) should take a cut. Plus NO bonuses this year for anyone! All benefits and fringes cut to the basics. We are all cutting to the basics at home, and it is our tax dollars that are supporting these people.
Has anyone seen the video of Ford’s automated plant in Mexico. It is beautiful and very efficient, but can’t happen here because of AWU.
I really want to buy everything made in USA. Give us the chance to do so!

I don’t know how to translate a given dollar amount per car to an hourly or yearly salary, but these numbers constitute a 40% salary reduction. So if a worker is making 75k/yr this reduces his/her salary to 45k/yr. That is quite a cut such that anyone with a family taking that cut would probably have to relocate as well as cut back quite a bit on other living expenses. No union worker is going to take a cut like that without a fight. I expect that there will be new negotiations leading to a much lower cut. As far as unions go, doing away with unions for blue collar workers would most likely lead to the same unacceptable conditions that preceded unions. To compete, businesses would reduce salaries as much as possible. Even the “good guys” would fall in line in order to save their businesses and/or to raise their bottom line as much as possible.

Wages and taxpayer money etc. Well folks this weekend when you spend another PM watch some clowns, as goes every weekend 52 a year, watch some clown manipulate some sort of ball, in a arena you paid for, get millions per year, or some talking head in media or on screen,, get millions.,and huge tax breaks..and you get all upset about UAW turning down same wages as foreign firms that moved here, FROM UNION Nations and send the profits home. NOTE car prices have little to do with worker wages, quality is NOT a line worker decision, big cars were built and Congress gave big tax break in SUV.,we done as that is what most of YOU wanted to drive. USA cars if you’d look up data are about same quality as foreign but since most do not know hubcap form radio,they do not know about quality. So just rave on, watch you pitcher being paid $3K per toss, or some guy negotiatiing another $25 mil yearly contract. or billions for endorsing shoes etc. and be sure to keep current on Brit and Paris.. as the government ends the middle class.that the unions, their strikes and all got for you. but most to stupid to know it., Amusing how the dumbed down blame unions for cost of cars as if you note, the foreign firms charge about same for their car.. Guess the dumb down of USA will do what no other nation can, defeat the USA from with in..as most to stupid to stop and see what this one is to do.. eliminate the mid class.. READ some facts on the whole thing. before you appear dumber then some of the posts seem to show.

After the bait and switch of the banking bailout I say let the big three file chapter 11 and let the workers take out their frustration on the UAW president when the contracts become nul and void making it impossible for them to even think about getting anywhere close to the wages they were making. I for one have no sympathy for the $77 an hour auto worker which forces me to buy japanese products because of the overpriced amercian made vehicles…

The only ones that need to take cuts is the CEOs… It is a slap in the face that the auto industry is asking its workers to take cuts when they are the ones responsible and it is the workers, not the bosses, that are hurting!

Gimme a break. These overpaid auto workers have had it too good for too long. The same goes for the CEO’s who are worth less than their high school dropout employees.
Bankruptcy, baby!

No bailout for the Big Three automakers. They should do what every other company has done and will continue to do – - file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy because that is the condition in which they find themselves. Continental Airlines did it – twice – and they are the stronger for it today. Yes, some jobs will be lost, but these companies will be able to continue operations under supervision of the Bankruptcy Court, preserving the majority of jobs for the time being. They will have to restructure themselves, which should have been done decades ago. Check out the article on GM in the current issue of FORTUNE magazine. I, personally have shied away from Detroit iron because of quality and performance (gas efficient), first, then styling and features. My 1991 Honda Accord has over 300,000 miles and is still going strong with very little fender rash. I bought it when my 1981 Chevy got Chevy’s disease at 100,000 miles – it fell apart. Bankruptcy – that is the correct path to follow today!

Seems like the dems are again willing to give away our hard earned money with no accountability. The union should have accepted the pay cut. Having a job is better than no job at all. It seems that maybe they think they’re better than the companies making superior products for less cost. Just as they pay for workers that don’t even show up to work they will end up getting the same by ways of a welfare check. Good riddance. Let the companies claim chapter 11 reorganization and restructure all wages including the ceo’s.

At the beginning of the industrial revolution where workers were more or less treated like slave labor(currently similar to the sweat shops in the far east) unions served an important need. As time has gone by workers and unions alike have taken advantage of their collective power to get ridiculous wages and benefits.
I would love to get $35 an hour to screw widget A into widget B all day long. In the whole scheme of things you could get a kid out of high school or who hasn’t finished high school to do the same thing for $12 or $14 and he would think he hit the lottery.
I hope that the workers/union who rejected this gift of a bailout realize that in this market any job is better than no job. They can complain all they want about the executives making this and that but ultimately they collectively are a bigger part of the problem.

Capitalism is a fancy word for survival of the fittest.
Government owned industry belongs in communist nations.
How can we expect to bring in the next generation of profitable US business if we keep this dieing monster alive? I say, let the vacuum begin.

I wonder what the head of the union Mr. “Butterfinger” thinks now?? Anyone out there recently laid off willing to be trained and work for $45 an hour? Hello?

Why should the UAW take another pay cut and benefit cut, that is all they have been doing; most auto workers took a 25%-50% paycut a year ago. It would be nice to see the management of the auto industry take a cut. Everyone always wants the little people to take a cut, when for the most part all the little people live paycheck to paycheck. And yet the management of U.S corporations are paid and unbelievable amount of money.
It’s not right to bailout the banks, and companies like AIG, especially after they went and had their big party at the California resort, their bailout should have been revoked after that little escapade.
It’s a very sad state of affairs how GREEDY we have become as a country; and how executives of companies believe that they are entitled to millions and millions of dollars even as their companies are sinking. I would like to see the executives/management give up a portion of their salaries to help with their companies bailout, it seems only right.

I’ll be out and about today – and in my disgust of ALL OF YOU who have purchased Honda’s and Toyota’s I’m going to key every one I see on my way into stores!

EVERYONE SHOULD TAKE A PAYCUT!
IF YOU WANT THAT JOB TO BE THERE LATER, TAKE A PAY CUTT!
YOU WOULD BE HELPING YOUR SELF AND THE REST OF AMERICA!
IF YOU ARE UNWILLING TO DO SO, THEN TAKE YOU UNEMPLOYMENT CHECK WITH OUT BLAMING THE REST OF AMERICA!
MANY AMERICANS THIS WEEK AND NEXT WILL BE OUT OF WORK AND NO ONE IS TRYING TO GIVE THEM A LIFE LINE, BUT BECAUSE YOU WON’T TAKE A REDUCTION OF PAY, YOU WILL FALL!
EVERYONE WHO WORKS FOR THESE COMPANIES SHOULD TAKE A PAY CUT, NOT JUST THE LINE WORKERS!

The unions have made some concessions to get their labor rate for NEW workers in line with that of the foreign manufacturers. However, the pension plans and extravagant benefits for former workers and even the new workers make these concessions meaningless. The overall labor rate at GM remains 50% above that of Toyota ($73 versus $47). This cannot continue if the US auto makers are going to recover. If this disparity is not addressed then no taxpayer money should be spent on a bailout.
As to those who say the financial bailout didn’t demand the same; the financial system does not overpay it’s rank and file employees. Some executive pay was excessive but the bailout included provisions to prevent golden parachutes and other executive bonuses. I still opposed the financial bailout on principle but that industry has a legitimate chance to survive based on past performance – the US automaker cannot succeed unless major restructuring is included in the recovery plan.

Steve_NJ,
Nice try…But,the overal labor rate at US automakers is over $70/hr. That is compared to $45-50 for Toyota and other foreign manufacturers. The difference is not the base salary but the pensions and other benefits. You are correct on one point however; if the unions want to keep their base salaries and still meet the requirements under the Republican plan, then all they have to do is cut their pensions and other benefits. When this is the case it really makes you wonder about the arrogance of the UAW. All they need to do is agree to benefit reductions and their companies could get the loans. Yet another example of the unlimited greed found in the UAW.

I say let the American auto companies fail. When a business is mismanaged at the top and the workers dictate salaries and benefits it will not work. In true American fashion, when they are gone someone will see an opportunity to come in and buy assets at pennies on the dollar and start a new company. The new company will look at the bottom line and pay CEO’s and blue collar accordingly. The product will be better because of competition in the market place and the desire to survive.

Read all the comments this AM, and it appears most are about as stupid as can be found anywhere, none know what a burdened labor rate is, none know what a huge impact on USA, a CH11 file by GM would bring to ANY business the did business within 90 days of file (read CH11 547c), most do not understand this is just union busting, car prices are NOT based upon worker costs, why can’t USA export to our “trading partners”, that perhaps those that whine about “I took pay cut,or I wish I made” are in that mess because they had no union or other defense,”take it or go”. Others in airlines etc “unions” did NOT honor other unions when on strike, and as such had to cave in.. You union haters seem to have zero knowledge of what the full impact of taking down unions will be.. the economic failure is NOT auto or unions fault, it was a Wall St scam gone bad. The plan is simply take down unions as Confederate states that gave billions to foreign auto companies, whose profits AND USA dollars go offshore, via favorable rules set up by Congress.. are costing you money. Demand trade laws with ALL we “trade” be changed to either mirror our “Trading partners” or we tariff. You fools do not quite get it, if auto wages get locked into what foreign firms pay their people, and NOTE even our nuke plants owned by foreign firms as is a whole bunch of “USA companies” we have just become the third world labor center. How sorry and stupid are some of the posts, but USA is now way down list for education and other measures of powerful industrial nation and some of fools post on this one more then proves it. Wake up fools, this is just the start of finally doing away with Middle Class. and time to stop with spineless “oh well I only get this and best we can do”. as that is a menu for failure, what a bunch of sheep. “I had to take it etc”. well you do not, stand up for a change. You have been ripped off and the unions etc had little to do with it, just like gas at $4/gal, it was the money folks, not the oil that drove it up.. Please, just get facts, smarten up, you are being sold out and unions are not the real root issue…just a the workers do not set car prices.. do you really think it costs four times a much to build a Cad then it does a Escort?

Helen wrote The folks that work on the line at the auto plans deserve the same wages as the employees at McDonalds’ and not a penny more along with the same benefits. It is the same level job.
H, be careful on how big a net you cast on such remarks, might not get cop or fire service.. You are amusing in your post of how labor is rewarded.. suggest you visit any machine shop and tell them how simple the work is.. you sound like some lib arts major who cannot find real jobs. Education is not the key factor in wages…as teachers paid less then cops.. and most with tech and eng degrees not paid as well as marketing types. so good try but you do not have a clue..sounds like someone is a bit jealous.

Randy
Thanks for intelligent post, but it seem all to many are simply so poorly informed the facts do not matter and they buy into media reports that are about as far off as out useless media is capable of doing. Amused at the simple minds that say “Go bankrupt”, seems those GED dropouts do not have a clue as to the impact of that one. Amazed at how poorly informed most of nation has become.. I no longer worry about Big Three, but the whole nation if some of the fools posting is representative of USA knowledge. Really like the fools that buy into “workers paid $70/hour” as shows exactly how stupid the public is becoming.. Does not take much to sell the fools on myths and more so since many seem to be not to well employed, but obviously being paid what they are worth. What a uniformed nation we have become, but bet at least 50-75% of them can tell you their favorite sports team stats.. RIP USA, seems you are going down as the dumb count goes up..

My husband put in over 30 years of his life in the auto factory. We sat and watched the local paper print the lies on wages the workers get. One day I asked him where the other money was. When the media writes GM wages it encludes” Hourly wage, what your insurance would be worth if you had to pay it out, what your vacation would be worth if you got it, What your benefits of buying a car or truck if you could afford it.Services that the office give you if you need some advice. My son works at GM for $12.an hour far cry from the 30 0r 40 you talk about. He is forced to take vacaton when the company shuts down. Even if the Kids can’t get out of school. We pay our Medicare a month plus our deductable, then we pay GM deductable, then copay and co-insurance. deductable. They pay 80% but that is only on a few things. No shots, no office call, No emergency room if they think you should have taken care of it yourself at home. Oh yes, they then add what they might have paid to the number they tell the media that you get per hour.
If you work for mcdonalds you get $7.00 an hours Full Medical. THey pay for office calls and shots. Deductable is less then a third of what we pay. Free drinks and 1/2 price meals. But because you are paid under poverty level, YOu can go to the goverment and get help with your rent, electric, gas, free doctors. free babysitting while you work. Free food and money for clothes and shoes, But GEEEEE those Union workers are putting everyone in the poor house. Lay all these people off and take the retirees money then we can stand inline for our free stuff. see if your price of cars go down, See if you get more gas out of your tin box that you drive. See how safe you are in that forign made car. Oh yes and when your job comes up for grabs I hope that the Russian, germans someone ove there takes it and move to the east. Then you can get in that line with us. IF there is a free country left. GOD BLESS AMERICA