Vatican Opposes Gay Decriminalization
EmailBy Phoebe Natanson, ABC News Rome Italian center-left opposition and gay groups are up in arms about the Vatican’s intention to vote against a French U.N. proposal to decriminalize homosexuality in the world. France, which holds the rotating European Union presidency until the end of 2008, will present the proposal at the UN General Assembly later this month as part of a wider campaign to promote the Universal Declaration of Human Rights In an interview Monday, the Vatican’s representative to the United Nations, Monsignor Celestino Migliore, said the church was against the French proposal and has always been against any move that would single out homosexuals and thus cause further discrimination. According to Migliore, this sort of political declaration would just add homosexuality to the list of categories already monitored by international bodies and “would create new and implacable discriminations…for instance, nations that do not recognize same-sex marriages would be shamed and be subjected to pressure.” The Vatican’s stance caused a barrage of political reaction in Italy. Center and left-wing MPs said the Vatican stance was "unacceptable" and "false," pointing out that if the church is against discrimination it should back the French proposal. "Decriminalising homosexuality means preventing some nations from sentencing homosexuals to death or imprisonment,” said Democratic Party MP Paola Concia. The Italian foreign minister has said that Italy, along with all 26 of the other EU countries, has singed the proposal. There was loud reaction from the Italian gay associations too. The leader of the gay rights association, Aurelio Mancuso, said that ”thanks to the particular status the medieval Vatican state enjoys at the U.N., and by allying itself with dictatorial regimes including Islamic ones, the clerical lobby is putting pressure on nations so that civil rights and liberties are not acknowledged." According to Mancuso, at least 91 countries ban gays and many others approve torture and imprisonment of homosexuals, including 10 Islamic-led nations that punish it with the death penalty. Gay rights associations are planning to publicly protest the Vatican’s position. According to the Catholic Church, homosexuality is not a sin but homosexual acts are. Last night the Vatican’s spokesman, Father Federico Lombardi, made a statement to the Italian wire agency Ansa saying that Monsignor’s Migliore’s replies had to be read in full. Obviously "the Vatican does not want to defend the death penalty as some would like to make people think,” said Lombardi. Citing the catechism of the Catholic Church, he said that "the church is opposed to the death penalty as it is to any criminal and violent legislation regarding homosexuals." However, he insisted that this proposal was political and would single out homosexuality and lead to reverse discrimination against traditional heterosexual marriage. Lombardi also pointed out that "fewer than 50 countries have signed the U.N. proposal; 150 have not. The Holy See is not alone in disapproving it. " Read more blogs from Phoebe Natanson Read more blogs from the ABC News Staff
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Gayness is a Abnormal Sexual Behavior.
If you legalize one Abnormal Sexual Behavior you will have to legalize them all Abnormal Sexual Behavior.
Posted by: seah | December 2, 2008, 8:48 am 8:48 am
who cares? Why is it news what the Vatican supports or opposses? Its not the 1500s and we don’t live in Saudi Arabia so religous leadership does not govern our public policy or that of other civilized nations. If it did, I assume the criminal penalty for adultery would be death and the punishment for wearing a cotton/poly blend would be death by stoning.
Posted by: nina | December 2, 2008, 9:02 am 9:02 am
Gay = sick = abnormal = perversion = WHITE MAN’S DISEASE.
Posted by: Don | December 2, 2008, 9:02 am 9:02 am
Gayness is no more abnormal than a birthmark.
The Vatican apparently only supports child molestation for priests.
Posted by: James | December 2, 2008, 9:05 am 9:05 am
The love of David and jonathan is celebrated in 1 Samuel. People who have a problem with those who are born gay are simply bigots. The Catholic Church is responsible for more death and human suffering than any institution in the history of the world, with the possible exception of the nazis.
Posted by: steve | December 2, 2008, 9:06 am 9:06 am
Gayness is NOT abnormal.
Wearing polyester and eating bacon or clams are abominations and abnormal, according to the Old Testament.
Posted by: James | December 2, 2008, 9:07 am 9:07 am
Steve, you forgot about the modern wars. Going back to the US, soviet union, and other countries that did genocide.
You have to decide if gay is a lifestyle or born that way. It is the same decision who decides if a fetus can become a person or dies a blob of unwanted cells.
Posted by: James | December 2, 2008, 9:16 am 9:16 am
Aren’t most priests gay?
Posted by: Reilly | December 2, 2008, 9:26 am 9:26 am
Aren’t we living in Satan’s World????
Posted by: sisterdearest09 | December 2, 2008, 9:45 am 9:45 am
most priests are gay … and being catholic is punishment enough for them!
Posted by: Francisco Cardenas | December 2, 2008, 9:47 am 9:47 am
Reilly:
Always remember, it is very easy to judge the mistakes of others and difficult to recognize our own mistakes.
Posted by: FM | December 2, 2008, 9:47 am 9:47 am
The fact that the Catholic Church has any representation in the UN is a mystry to me. What would some group that lives in the 14th Century have anything defensible to say. They are still waiting for the next Crusade to bring them back to power. And they are such a good force in the world just look at all they did for the US during WWII. I guess the Vacitacn is real hip with the Isalmist and their extreme hatred. What a great partnership. For evil in the world. Gays are born gay.
Posted by: DR | December 2, 2008, 9:50 am 9:50 am
The love of David and jonathan is celebrated in 1 Samuel.******* The love of David and Jonathan? King David? The same David with a veritable harem of wives? Perhaps he was bi, but I think it more likely that when the bible speaks of love in this case it the love of fast friends or brothers, rather than a sexual attraction. Regardless though I do agree that homesexuals should not be discriminated against. However, I don’t think anyone should be discriminated against. Many who are rabidly for gay rights hate some other group or type and are just like those they decry. True acceptance and tolerance is rare.
Posted by: jenn | December 2, 2008, 10:37 am 10:37 am
Who cares what the vatican says?
Posted by: Ted | December 2, 2008, 12:58 pm 12:58 pm
Most priests are deeply closeted homosexuals. They support discrimination against people who are openly gay purely out of spite and envy.
Posted by: God | December 2, 2008, 2:22 pm 2:22 pm
Reilly made the best comment here. Francisco, what does that have to do with living in Satan’s world? I am guessing that Reilly will or should admit he is a failure like all the rest of us sinners.
Posted by: Matthew | December 2, 2008, 3:05 pm 3:05 pm
Gays have a hormonal disorder.Why would someone CHOOSE to be something that other people will kill them for being? As far as the catholic church goes,who cares what they think? They are responsible for more deaths & prosecutions in the past then any other religion.At one time,their priests could legally kill those who didn’t want to be catholic.Have they ever aplogized to the world for such past behavior? NO!
Posted by: suejkw | December 2, 2008, 3:08 pm 3:08 pm
I believe that gayness can be a choice if you are in prison, but it is probably caused by in-utero hormonal imbalances. It is a birth defect. Which team is a hermaphrodite supposed to bat for? Most priests are probably gay, and to think I am Catholic an still go to church in light of all this stupidity. The church needs to champion something else for a change. Maybe healthy eating habits or fiscal responsibility or humility in foreign policy. Just take off where Ron Paul has taken the dialogue.
Posted by: Huh | December 2, 2008, 3:26 pm 3:26 pm
First the bigots claim homosexuality is “abnormal” and “unnatural”, then when it’s pointed out to them that many animals in the wild occasionally do it, the bigots turn round and say it’s animal-like and therefore bad. It’s either one or the other though. It can’t be unnatural AND animal-like!
Oh that’s right, these superstitious wacko’s think the physical world is controlled by a “god” with a load of irrational and contradictory rules which just happen to suit the Pope who invented them!
Posted by: Mark | December 2, 2008, 11:06 pm 11:06 pm
I hate how people polarize homosexuality into an absurd presumption that people are either totally “gay” or totally “straight”. In realtiy everyone is bisexual, but society forces people to act completely one way or the other.
You only have to look back to Ancient Greece before European society started being oppressed by Abrahamic religions to realize everyone is inherentely bisexual.
Posted by: Matt | December 2, 2008, 11:08 pm 11:08 pm
jenn thanks for comment. 1 samueal chapt 18 jonathan loved david as he loved his own soul. they formed a covenant celebrating that love. You go to your best friend and tell him or her you love them as you love your own soul and you want to form a covenant celebrating that love. Maybe its just me but for two guys that’s pretty intense…
Posted by: steve | December 3, 2008, 3:30 am 3:30 am
Steve- I actually went home last night and read Samuel and I must say it isn’t clear one way or another. I definitely see how some might see there relationship as that of lovers due to one mention of a kiss and the several mentions of the covenant and the loving of another and one loves ones own soul. Stop and think though. Many non-western cultures kiss for reasons other than sexual expression. And true friends do love one another as much as they love there own self or soul. A true friend loves you and supports you through all the times of your life. Stop being so Western as to think love is at all interchangable with sex and sexual feeling. Love is much more than mere sex. We do not think this way in the West and as such can easily mistake such things. I must say that as in so many cases I can find no clear interpretation of this, however, I find my explaination equaly likely.
Posted by: jenn | December 3, 2008, 4:08 am 4:08 am
One addition, and I do apoligize for the bad manners of posting twice, to my belief that Jonathon and David’s love was likely not sexual and more that of true friends and brothers. They lived in a time of war and threat to not only their own lives but lives of their entire people. I do not know how many soldiers you know, but I come from a military family and married a military man who served in the Air force. The bonds of those who fight together and rely on one another for survival are deep and lasting. These bonds are a great as love and, often, are called love by these men who will seek each other out and support each other for life, far beyond the time of service that drew them together. Are there homosexuals in the miliary? Assuredly. However these bonds need not neccessarily be homosexual to be called love.
Posted by: jenn | December 3, 2008, 4:38 am 4:38 am
Hypocrites! Walk around the Vatican and all you can see are naked statues (mostly of young men). Priests that molest children are quietly transferred from place to place molesting hundreds of children as they move around. How many priests are brought to book for their crimes against children? Oh, you can SUE them, but you won’t find too many locked away in jail. HYPOCRITES!!!
Posted by: soso | December 3, 2008, 1:43 pm 1:43 pm
what a bunch of homophobic, xenophobic racists a lot of you people are. get your own house in order before you trash other people. God just might be about love and compassion, in which case you are in very serious trouble. what would Jesus think of your hateful, racist trash. so disappointing. pathetic.
Posted by: Paul Wall | December 3, 2008, 4:23 pm 4:23 pm
why not just criminalize religion? the worries of the world will be gone.
Posted by: Paul Wall | December 3, 2008, 4:31 pm 4:31 pm
Drink the blood of your savior.Marry 3 or 4 teenage girls.Get 72 virgins for blowin’ folks up.Get reincarnated into a bug.Don’t religion have some funny ideas? Just stay outta my bedroom!
Posted by: Phil the machinist | December 3, 2008, 7:04 pm 7:04 pm
This is exactly as I said, Steve. Hatred and intolerance come from all and any sides. Peace and tolerance are rare from any viewpoint. From the religious and non-religious, from hetero to homo, from every ethnicity and nation, it seems people can only feel good about themselves if they put down on and hate others. People seem to thrive on the “at least I’m better than you” mentality, rather than the “strive to be the best I can be” mentality.
Posted by: jenn | December 4, 2008, 3:22 am 3:22 am
The Roman Catholic Church is actually a foreign power headquartered in the State of Vatican City. The Holy See has a Head of State,the Pope. The State of Vatican City has a Head of State, the Pope. The Pope is Head of State of two completely separate and sovereign entities. A beast with two horns. The priests of the Roman Church represent a FOREIGN POWER. By passing themselves off as holy men they have raped children and now a priest told members that voted for President Elect Obama that they should seek forgiveness for doing so. The Roman Church is a FOREIGN POWER.It is a 5th column working under the guise of godliness. It seeks to bring the sovereign nation of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA under complete control of the POPE of ROME. It is an EVIL that has intentionally hidden serial pedophile rapist priests. I have two words for that Panzer Pope and his clown priest posse and we all know what those two words are,don’t we?
Posted by: William L. Irwin | December 4, 2008, 8:00 am 8:00 am
I have never seen more ignorance than in some of these blogs. The Church isn’t trapped in the 14th century it’s focused on the 1st. The century that bore Jesus, who, founded the Church and established St. Peter as the 1st pope. The church does not descriminate against homosexuality, but it will not support individuals who engage in this false representation of the sexuality that God created. They also don’t support fornication of any kind, rape, molestation etc… A handful of priests that molested children, do not make up the Church, just as the many thousands that do outside the Church do not represent you or I.
Posted by: NM | December 6, 2008, 9:16 pm 9:16 pm
“A handful of priests that molested children”,was said by NM. NM,you just proved that you are clueless about what is going on in the U.S.A.(never mind the rest of the world). Investigate what they are doing in IRELAND. Every time I see a Roman Catholic Church shut down I’m overjoyed. A vow of poverty?I hope they have to sell everything they have to pay their victims. I hope they end up just as broken and traumatized as their victims are. I hope and pray that the Roman Catholic Church vanishes from the face of the earth, the sooner the better.
Posted by: William L. Irwin | December 8, 2008, 5:15 pm 5:15 pm
William, you’re completely blinded by your hate. The Church, through its charities, organizations, and members, does a great deal of good for people in this world. But who cares about that, let’s dismiss it, let’s get rid of the Church b/c of what some have done. But according to you, it isn’t some, but a majority? Your focusing on the actions of those who represent the Church in NO way, who live and act in complete contradiction to the Church’s teachings. Do you think, as a Catholic, I have no problem with priests who have don’t such horrible things? Do they represent me, or my faith? By far. But you can’t accept that, however, you can’t see beyond that and recognize the truth, which is easy to find, you can’t look to the countless men and women throughout history and today, who are true examples of our faith, those who would put you and myself to shame by their character. No, you think you have it completely figured out, as if judging Americans for the govt. dropping two atomic bombs is fair, as if judging Germans b/c of Hitler is fair, as if judging Muslims b/c of terrorists who act in the name of their faith is fair…you’re wrong, and will be until you let go of your hate, if you want to pray about something, pray that God will help you do so, b/c only then will your mind by clear enough to see the truth.
Posted by: JL | December 10, 2008, 6:47 pm 6:47 pm
You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig.I consider the source. I understand how fragile people are.I know just how easily their “house of cards” world crumbles.I understand people want to defend their brand of reality.I have news for them. They have been had.They have been played as fools.The scales are falling off of the eyes of the blind and the nakedness of the ruler is discovered.Someone’s delicate sensibilities have been offended.So what, don’t confuse me with someone that cares about what the Pied Piper of Rome thinks. Just so you know, I feel sorry for the victims of the Roman fraud.They have been lied to and preyed upon by their masters from the beginning.That church is like an incestuous father that preys upon and abuses his own children or a global predator stalking the earth looking for victims.RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.Evil uses the good intentions,sincerity and integrity of its misguided dupes to further mislead others.Useful idiots as front men and women for the Pimp of Rome and he is pimping a real skank. They play hide the pedophile amongst themselves while their faithful play ring around the rosary(hypnotic mantra).Josef Ratzinger avoided testimony in a sex scandal case by way of diplomatic immunity because he was MADE Pope.Everyone knows they are full of crap. Nobody really believes that outfit is of the Lord. That crew is more like an organized crime syndicate than anything else.They are the counterfeit money of the spirit world. However, P.T. Barnum did say,”there is a sucker born every minute”and apparently he was right.
Posted by: William L. Irwin | December 11, 2008, 8:38 am 8:38 am
God help you.
Posted by: JL | December 11, 2008, 4:54 pm 4:54 pm
God help us all
Posted by: William L. Irwin | January 11, 2009, 8:13 am 8:13 am