Closing Arguments: So, Does Satan Exist?

He was our president for the past eight years.

there is no satan, it is hard to understand how so many people still believe in such nonsense

You bet Satan exists! I committed suicide and got a dose of hell and Satan that I will never forget. To this day I still smell the sulphur and bmstone of hell. To those who do not…are fools!
By the way God Does exist..I saw Him to when I had a NDE!

You bet Satan exists! I committed suicide and got a dose of hell and Satan that I will never forget. To this day I still smell the sulphur and brimstone of hell. To those who do not…are fools!
By the way God Does exist..I saw Him too when I had a NDE!

God exists and so does Satan.
Because one does not believe this does not make their existence any less real.

Go to any childrens hospital! room after room and floor after floor of undeserved pain!

Faith is a gift from the Father, that no man may boast. For people to believe in Jesus, they must receive the gift from the Father. Those that believe in Jesus, believe in His Word. Therefore, they know that Satan exists. You may deny belief that a chair exists but that doesn’t make it disappear. You may deny that Satan or God exist, but that doesn’t make them disappear either.

Satan did not exist in scripture untill the 12th or 13th century, so how can Moses or Abraham been a believer in God since they clearly did not believe in Satan. The fact of the mater is that Satan was created by the church to help rule by fear. Why is Satan never mentioned once in the Old Testament???

No.
I never considered Satan didn’t exist, until hearing this debate. Deepak is right that sick people use the “Satan made me do it” excuse to blame someone/something else for what they did. Take responsibility for the good and evil in yourself. I don’t need to believe in the white male god and the red horned devil to be spiritual.

He surely does and anyone who doesnt know has fallen into his trap. God has a plan and some people are not going to like it if they dont believe. a scary time is near.

Hmmmm, recovery, seems that you have never even read the Old Testament!!! He is mentioned in the very first book of the Bible. And the Jews called him Ha Satan. It’s amazing how many people make comments which have no basis in truth.

Yes, Satan is real and we are told this by God and Jesus many times. Anyone who sits there and says they only want to believe in God but that what God tells us in the Bible about Satan is not true is a FOOL and will get to spend their eternal time in hell with Satan. Don’t fall to the lies that Satan tries to lead you to. God help you fools!

Actually Michael, he was originally a serpant, and the church changed him into Satan in the 12th century,

The Bush family are Satan. They put our country in this mess. But they had other little devils with the Republican majority to get us in this mess. May they all burn in hell with there leader the devil. And this includes some Democrats that voted with them. They will all spend the nights in the same place. God Pray for us, we need you.

We are all cooked. Keep on marking off the plagues as they come. er.. weather..quakes..volcanos..er stock brokers..laywers..more laywers…even more laywers..

The very idea of Satan was created in the minds of people too weak to take responsibility fot their own actions . How could a God create a being , form his mind , control every aspect of his environment , create his very personality and perception , then not take credit for his actions ? What kind of cowardly buck-passing God do Christians worship ? Satan = lame excuse .

The truth in my opion is that in life if we seem to struggle it is only for the choices we make in our past. It is are job to learn right from wrong. We need to have faith in our selfs. No matter what your belief most of us seem to begiveing answers rather then seek for our selfs. Like some leader we follow. We act like Spritel belivers with the characteristics of a lost dog. In a state of apathy stumbleing between lies and truth! mindlessly performing task that result in little or no consequence. How can you absolutely guarantee life afterdeath? I dont think we can but all in the same we need to understand that this life is hard and it is up to us to seek a path of independents emotionally and mentally and do the best we can. I think that well lead us to truth.

Satan exist because it is an evil, human suppressing, earth destroying, lustful, greedy, gluttony force that humans have to have virtue to control because we are FLESH; Just as God (or our creator, whether you believe scientific or spiritual)created us without supernatural powers so that we must practice virtue and self-control—– so does “satan” have power over humans because we are not capable of maintaining our earthly control unless we practice control of our flesh with a conscience and virtue.

How do you pick and choose parts of the Bible? Look at the prophecies in the Old Testament that Jesus fulfilled which told of where he was born and how he died. If we only believe in parts why not throw out the whole thing. You may have to laugh all the way to Hell when you die.

The thing that I cant stand about die hard Christians is that, in the same breath, they will say that God is the judge and then they will condem someone to Hell for not believing in him/her!

That was a very interesting debate how about a debate on the existence of a
god as is referred by the so called bible.

We have a current Satan today in the form of Osama bin Laden, don’t you think?

This is a ridiculous argument, one can’t argue with someone’s faith because by definition it has no basis. One commentor said “visit a children’s hospital and see the pain caused by the devil” how can that reconcile with the belief of a loving god? where is he/she/it for the children. grow up people.

The church used to believe the Earth was the center of the universe….They were wrong. Just because the chirch told you something your whole life doesn’t mean that it is true.

Satan sure does exist. He delights in taking over a person’s mind and soul to do his own bidding, ie, sexual predators, school assassins, child porn addicts, children who murder their parents, etc., etc. Don’t be afraid to ask God to reveal himself to you and teach you about Jesus and Eternal Life. He never preaches, He just teaches. God bless all who read this.

I doubt Satan is one being or one form — but if he is he would likely take the form of someone like Bernie Madoff.

To those that think believing in Satan is only for those who can’t take responsibility for themselves and their actions, I say this. It is exactly those who are taking responsibility in believing that they could have done wrong and need forgiveness from God. Just as Satan (aka the fallen angel, Lucifer)would like you to believe he does not exist and therefore you will never have to pay the ultimate price for your errors. Dorothy Sayers’ “The Devil to Pay” has a character named Mephistopheles who says it most accurately. “Lies? What lies have I ever told? I have no need of lying seeing as mankind are such fools! Why, tell them the truth and they will mislead themselves by their own vanities and save me the trouble of invention.” For those who can relate, this is Satan’s modus operandi to a “t”.

Man is always trying exert an excusable reason to permenatly defer judgement. If there is no God or Jesus or Satan….hen there is no standard by which one can be judged in this life or any possible afterlife. Life is just an series of random events with no cause, reason, or purpose. I have then No reason to live life with the hope that anything exists after this…It’s just 65 years of work, etirement and then death…The scriptures say that the Fool has said in his heart that there is no GOD…Our very design and all CREATION proves the existence of someone with wisdom so Infinite that our Finite minds will never, no matter how much we try, be able to fathom the what, whys and hows of this exsistence…It is mans deepinig search for the one thing that He’ll never have and that’s control!Which of the theolgy that we do have in the Christian community is one of the priciple motives that led to his fall…he sought to have total control above that which GOD gave him…and this will ultimately lead to the overall destruction of man Himself…God, in his infinte love and mercy has given us the grace to make a decision simply to belive and defer judgement and not make excuses…Which when you stand before a Judge….excuses dont matter just evidence! And the holy scriptures declare that Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the EVIDENCE of things not seen. It is sad to see such bold debates such as this in a country that claims to be the greatest Christian nation….But these things must be so that the times may be fulfilled.

Evil exist in the physical world so that we may experiance life as we know it.If it did not exist we could not experiance the physical world.In the physical world if only good and love existed then we would not have anything to compare it to we could only know of love and not experiance it.In the spirtiual world where God is there is nothing but love.God lets our sprits come into the phyisal world so we may experiance the drama and the love of not only knowing but experianceing love. God does not punish anybody,only loves them for taking the role that you are here to play,wherther that role is good or bad.Love one another,do not judge one another.

People! read your bible God exist and satan exist, people always pointing fingers at God concerning things that is happing on this earth. Satan cause sickness,death,sin,murder, God love us. God would not have sent Jesus to destroy the works of satan only to pick them back up to use on those He loves. Everyone who do not believe in God or Jesus, will one day come face to face with satan. I am not trying to sent no one to hell they are doing a good job by them self. Love Ya

Yes, YES, YES!!! Satan does exist.

Contact at: jwxxjw@aol.com or phone: 573-301-6347 cell phone only.
part two…continuation of part one…
The Religious Answer: A Virtual-Infinite Universe
by Larry Oliver Williams, M.Ed., Copyright 12/25/08 – All Rights Reserved
Infinite Spirits created by God are Godly thereby; without exception, Holy!
True infinite Spirits have God’s authority. Religious organizations do not, and cannot adjudicate; as if God. No man can assume the functions of God.
No specific “faith” is more dominant than any other. None are compulsory.
Jesus Christ, for example, was/is a Godly Spirit transformed into the body of a man to sense our finite Universe. Physically, I have sensed Christ just as I sense myself, and, other people, animals, and all living and non-living things in my own finite Universe. That is my “pure-belief”; Jesus Christ is GOD!
I have a blind-faith belief that Jesus Christ is a Godly Spirit; no doubt, God.
Jesus Christ has the authority of God as a Godly Spirit. All Holy Spirits do!
All religious “books” are sacred here also; to site them reveals your “intent”.
The Bible, for example, is a Holy Book; however tainted, or not, it is Holy.
All religious “faiths” created in God’s purpose, regardless of its Holy iconic name, has sacred value in your desire to know and love the one true God. Your intent is foremost at adjudication. God knows my “true earnestness”.
No matter how you might try to appear sincere, or seek a condolence from your peers, God always knows the truth of your intent; your sincere desire.
Intent has only two directions; either you intend to, or, you do not. Which?
You will not become immortal until you are sincere in your intent to “know” and love the one true God. A man (any) can believe in his own actions even if his actions are not “good”; if his actions are sincere. Intent reigns! This is not God’s mercy, but God’s indulgence. “Intent” reigns over “actions”. It is certain that God is not daunted by our actions; but, by our (free will) intent.
What effect can any act have upon God; except to reveal our intent foremost.
Even if we intend to know and love God, our actions may not be deliberate.
If we do not truly intend to know and love God, then, we will never “know”.
By our “free will” we eventually “know” God; giving credence to our being.
While we seek immortality, with God, we can’t even imagine God’s “mind”.
You are not learning to “know about God” (an impossibility), but, to know “as” God knows. Godly wisdom is a different level of knowledge than the knowledge of “things” in our finite arena. It is more of an “understanding”, or feeling, rather than an account of things. When you finally (if you ever) “know” God, you will feel an understanding of his creation. Although you are “implicit”, you are a real witness to understand and appreciate God’s true virtual-infinite creation. Imagine feeling “bliss” forever, and forever, and…
God’s has created all to benefit all; not as a selfish vent. Your “bliss” is for your enjoyment eternally; for knowing God’s “power”. Knowing is joyous!
You will finally know (feel) God’s presence as you come into God’s “light”. It is an immortal level of knowledge that takes you away from your previous state into the realm of infinite bliss. The things (concerns) from your finite arena are gone forever. Your “wisdom” has come from pain, and from joy.
You will not go to a “Heaven” (an Earthlike paradise) or a “Hell” (a furnace of fire and brimstone), and you do not retain anything from your “life”; not family, relationships, or your body. All of that is intentional propaganda that has been created by men trying to control you in a materialistic vein that has no Godly purpose, and is indeed, unholy. Do not be manipulated by anyone.
This unique universal religious theory is not an attempt to manipulate or to control anyone. It is just a reasonable supposition of our purpose; inspired!
Everything in “history” is within God’s infinite Universe, created in perfect detail; but all virtual in God’s mind. It is so detailed and perfect that it “is” real to us. It does not, however, have a physical beginning or end; “virtual”.
It is truly infinite and can not be traced to conception; God’s virtual creation.
We learn as finite beings in a finite Universe; possibly many times over, but, since we only perceive our finite Universe with our five senses, it only exists to us while we are alive. When we die we transfer into our Soul, (maybe for liability), then, we may transfer to a “new” body and/or arena; reincarnation?
Many reputed religions believe in “reincarnation”; it is herein, “reasonable”.
God’s lessons may continue for us, mercifully, until we do, at last, “know”.
It is impractical that you only live once and then die and simply disintegrate.
You can trust in the fact that your “mind” (Soul) will not ever “disintegrate”.
Your “mortality” mandates your “immortality”; a semantic-paradox at least!
It is also impractical that you will never “know” God; like being on a dismal endless journey in which you wistfully learn in various forms and/or arenas.
In either case God’s creation would be futile and indifferent to any purpose.
You can trust in the fact that your “mind” (Soul) is on a practical “journey”.
We are “here” to witness God’s creation; not to simply bear life as “beings”.
We are God’s children, mortally and immortally; created for His “purpose”!
You can trust in the fact that God has not imprisoned you in a never-ending journey of successive bodies and/or arenas. You are here to learn and you will truthfully, “know” God, immortally. You are a child of God, eternally!
Nobody fully knows what God’s virtual-infinite Universe “is” or “how” you exist. It is impossible for you to ever completely “know” God (even as His Godly Spirits “know”), however, you can surely always know your “intent to know”, (an equivalent to “knowing” God). You can at last rejoice; now!
I can not tell you the framework of your life, but, I can tell you to trust in the fact that your life has purpose and direction from God. That “trust” has to come from your own “free will”, however, to give your witness credibility.
It isn’t the purpose of this religious theory to tell you what will happen; but, to help you to know that God is directing your journey, regardless. What happens is simply what happens; its God’s virtual creation. We are here as students to know God; and, we can trust God. Trusting in God inherently is to “love” God. Begin now to love God (and all things); then, you can know.
We “are” to know and love God “mortally” before we know and love God “immortally”. We are created purposefully within God’s virtual Universe; to be God’s “witness”. It is not our prerogative to grasp God’s “creation” or the state of our being. We are created to witness God; and God’s creations. Trust in God, and relax with an inner peace. Your purpose is being fulfilled.
It is difficult to overcome our innate desire for a life that centers upon our physical nutrients. Our purpose is not to adorn ourselves with our accolades, but to fulfill God’s purpose of our learning. We learn from diverse sources, however. God indulges our actions according to our “intent” to know God.
Do not adjudicate anyone’s deeds; even your own. God is the “adjudicator”.
Our finite Body has no relevance in our afterlife. When God’s lessons are over, we “know” God, or we do not; but, for all eternity? God’s purpose is to have us be divinely knowledgeable and loving. Ironically, “true-intent” is what reigns in our seeking to know God; mercy, an intentional “quagmire”.
Our body perceives our temporary Universe with our senses: sight, sound, touch, taste, and smell. We are born, have life, and die. We are in our finite arena to learn to become God’s virtual-witness to a virtual-infinite Universe.
The Universe is finite in our mind. All is “virtually-infinite” in God’s mind.
Our concepts of time, space, and matter are true while we are “alive” and sensing our finite Universe. Time, space, and matter are finite concepts in God’s infinite virtual scheme; a dilemma for our limited human vocabulary.
After our death, it is unnecessary to sense time, space, or matter, so, our mental “Id” is transferred to our Soul where it continues without our body. Our finite body is no longer necessary to perceive our new virtual-infinite Universe. Our true intent to know God is accounted for and our passage is left to God; regardless of any vain misgivings we had prior to our “death”.
Implicitly, this unique theory, or supposition, of how we exists gives each body it’s own finite Universe that is completely separate, although perfectly coordinated, with all other finite Universes ongoing simultaneously. God is a magnificent infinite God, limitless in His power to create; God is infinite!
It is possible that there are completely separate Universes other than our finite Universe. That would display the creative magnificence of GOD.
There may be infinite types of Universes and an infinite variety of “Body” types too. Anything is possible for God; including infinite finite Universes!
It is like a television station broadcasting one channel to all viewers. Each viewer is “seeing” their picture (their own finite Universe) as an individual action; but, all are on the same channel seeing the same picture. There may be other channels (other finite Universe types) to “tune-in to” also; strange!
Each Body senses the Universe simultaneously with a unique perspective. Although the “picture” is the same for everyone, everyone has a different perspective. Each Body senses a finite Universe from a unique viewpoint.
That would mean that infinite-finite Universes are ongoing, all right now! “Infinite” is humanly inconceivable, so, we can only sense our finite arena.
It’s a vast and difficult theory to comprehend. It is a religious theory that accommodates all Laws of Physics. It also accommodates all of God’s true spiritual icons, (Godly Spirits bestowed with a body that sense as we do in our finite arena). For instance, Christ definitely lived as a man on the Earth.
Religious faiths can rejoice in their authority from the “one” God; Holiness!
Looking for a religious answer to our being should start with the idea of God (at the top) and it should not claim indefinite facts. All that we know is that our Body perceives a finite Universe with our bodily senses during our life.
All else is purely imagined; blind-faith! We should not claim anything that is beyond our finite knowledge. This theory is just an imagined “answer”.
Traditional religions that are founded in uncertain claims should be set aside. If they were organized to fulfill vain purposes of dire men, they are unholy. Any religious theory seeking to know God is good if it is scientifically true and subdues death, but, it must be maintained without using fear tactics or controlling devices. It must be true to God’s purpose, and not man’s vain purposes. It is invariably difficult to detect what is of God and not just man.
There are infinite Spirits, but only one God. There are infinite Souls, and possibly infinite Universes, but only one God; the infinite Spirits are Godly Spirits uniquely. Everything is within the one God; virtual creations therein.
Many different religions exist in our World; all of them are “true”. Every religious faith is “true”, because each is created by the one God; in that regard, all are united! All things, (including all religious icons) are God’s.
Priests/preachers/teachers, churches, and all religious texts or doctrines, such as the Christian Bible or the Muslim Koran, are purposeful; they are the will of God. Within our finite “Universe” they are separate and vain, but God created them, thus, they each have Godly purpose. Each is a Holy creation!
Do not condemn any of them, but, merrily put them aside for the moment.
Do not condemn any so-called doctrine of God; the Bible, the Koran, or any.
They are all Holy doctrines (however inspired), but, they are written by men and cannot be interpreted to be God’s word. They all give insight into God, but cannot be used to interpret Man’s actions since they are spoiled by Man. In the beginning, God created them Holy; then Man tainted their godliness.
Your sole intent will lead you past all preconceptions. You do not need any religious doctrines to guide you through your life; not even this supposition.
You will know right and wrong when you must decide; always intend right.
Excessive focus upon a traditional faith is debilitating, and it does not serve God, or man. It is the nature of God’s method to create a “paradox”; so, to have a changing Universe. As a paradox changes its polarity, so we evolve!
In order to “know” God, we must learn God’s lessons; no matter the spring.
God created our finite Universe to provide a “stage” for our learning. God’s infinite purpose is to have answerable Souls; credible virtual Holy witnesses.
It doesn’t matter by what faith our finite mind seeks God, but, it does matter if our mind knows God when we leave our finite state; to know as a witness.
Our finite Universe acts like a pendulum that God has swung. It moves first one way, then the other, until it comes to rest in the center. Ultimately, all will “center”! As our paradox reaches polarity, it will reverse for the sake of continuance within. God’s lessons are unveiled within our learning arena.
By this, we learn to know and love God as the Creator; our purpose fulfilled.
Every person’s faith or belief is respected and true in this Infinite Universe Theory; it accommodates everyone with respect and love. It is hypocritical to subscribe to any specific religious belief without respecting all of them.
A Soul should seek God sincerely; regardless of a particular religious faith.
Using a finite language to pray to an infinite God is a contradiction. Prayers are subsequently unnecessary and do not serve God particularly. Pretending to talk to God or feeling God’s presence is an enigma; it satisfies only our mind. Our Soul is always with God; a paradox of seeking and finding God. It is unnecessary to pray; since we are always within God’s mind; virtually.
How do we live, day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute, second to second? We must sustain ourselves within God’s finite arena; if only to be able to live on. God’s lessons come in many forms, including intricate trials. You may know what is good or what is not good; intend always to be good.
Seek the avenues that help you to learn, and thereby, to finally “know” God.
It doesn’t matter at what age a person dies. Every life is unique to God and each has an “era” to live and to die. Our finite perimeters are not significant.
At our birth God has created us Godly; from there, we “are” to “know” God.
Race and nationality have no value in this religious theory. God does not value us by any human set we may rely upon otherwise. Earthly groupings do not give us “power” in God’s name; even religious affiliations. To God, it is unimportant whether you are African-American or Irish-Catholic, Hell’s Angel or Baptist, male or female, black or white, or what “team” you are on.
You may have affiliations in your finite life; just know your inner purpose.
Affiliations can be detrimental to learning the truth of our Godly purpose.
Many Earthly affiliations claim “power” that is not issued by God. Ignore them all and focus upon knowing and loving the one true God; as a student.
Although we live together, we are alone in God’s mind. We are in our finite learning arena to learn God’s lessons; not Man’s. War between any factions is destructive and negative within God’s mind. Whoever is at fault surely does not intend to know and love God. Unfortunately, we have become so wrongfully affiliated that wars and killing seem common to us; they are not!
If Man was not in such affiliations, wars would cease, and all could learn God’s lessons without physical pain and mental anguish. It is ironic that Mankind promotes affiliation among peers, rather than to live in harmony as individuals; group mentality creates negative obstacles that work against God’s intention. Affiliate to learn God’s lessons without “evil” intentions.
This theory can only take you to a higher plane than your traditional (or non-traditional) religious faith has already taken you. It is not intended to cause confusion or to demise your previous religious values (all faiths). It purely hopes to bring a new understanding of your “being”, and to bring all people in this finite learning arena “together”. We may diminish physical pain and mental anguish if more people live to “know” and to love the one true God.
Many traditional ideas in your old religious faith will seem less reasonable and they will have less value in your life. Exaggerated stories, fables, and tales of “miracles” in religious documents may only be false accounts that were written or spoken by men to manipulate political veins; not from God.
It is up to you, and you alone, to decide what was/is true historically in your search to know God. This unique conjecture is merely a possibility; and not certain. It is, surely, worthy of consideration; an investment in your “finite” being. Unravel the knots in your old family beliefs and practices; “reason”.
Family relationships are not significant in your efforts to know the one God. You will not benefit from the empowerments of being a family leader, nor a family member. Do not rely upon “family support” to increase your position with God regarding your intent to know and love Him. Many people believe that having strong “family support” enhances their life, which it may; it does not, however, enhance one’s knowledge of God, necessarily. Treat everyone as though you are a family peer; not only the family in which you were born.
“Blood is thicker than water” is a false premise. It has caused much sorrow.
Each of God’s children will know God alone and without affiliation. Intent is an individual issue that cannot be stipulated by affiliation or manipulation.
Having a “free will” is a sacred attribute for choosing your true Godly intent.
Live your life for your ideal end; that you will truly know the one true God.
All of your family, (all relatives, friends, and acquaintances, and even your enemies), are only temporary. You can disregard them all; then, stand alone.
Do not allow yourself to be subjected by mankind. Live by notwithstanding!
You will be challenged by Earthly deterrents; a “lesson” in wanting and in needing. You may want what is acceptable to your peers, but you need what is necessary to have infinite joy (immortality). Only do what is necessary to know and love God; not what is compelling “as advertised” by manipulators.
Even those you do not know of can manipulate your positive will to “know”.
In this supposition you will see wisdom and love, not manipulation. This is sent, not to direct or control you, but, to give you “light”; subjective content.
You must decide your “intent”; and what is your purpose? This, an answer!
Everyone’s life is unique and timely in this finite arena where we live alone.
It may seem unreasonable for you to know, or love, God, when your lessons feel too painful (or too harsh); but, never stop intending, for that is how you will know (and love) God. Persistence, tenacity, and confidence will carry you out. Learn unto the end; that you will know (and love) “your” Creator.
Religious holidays and celebrations can be good; to show sincerity in your intend to know God, regardless to which “faith” it is attached. Enjoy God’s holidays in the spirit of loving God’s creation. It is merely impossible to pursue knowledge (of God) without feeling great joy in your learning. Do not, however, let celebrations become clouded with vain misgivings. Dire materialistic bliss often poses as pious undertaking; God knows which path you are on and what your true intent is. Every thought can be joyful if it is unselfish. Celebrate God each day, hour, minute, and second in your “life”!
An eternal subjection (such as in Hell) is neither Godly, nor practical. Only our human mind fears a Hell; and plainly to know God is “Heaven”. “Hell” is a probable creation of political tactics. Hell was created by men to play upon our human condition; a political device to instill fear and control. God has no need for an eternal Hell in this theory, and the reward for our learning (Heaven) is intrinsic, eternal joy! The true outcome of learning is to know.
There may be accountability for our Soul’s intent; it is not possible to know or understand, or calculate. Some things are better left to God. Our “mind” cannot create its own eternal fatality; a finite vocabulary cannot define an infinite Universe. Language was created by humans, and so it is limited to the finite perimeters of our “Universe”. God designed a learning arena in which we cannot be both, the teacher and the student. We are the student!
Imagine Christianity without a Priest/Preacher, a Church, or a Bible. Pure Christianity is based upon a belief in Jesus Christ as God. Jesus Christ is a Godly Spirit with all of the features of God; therefore, God. The irony here is that there can be only one GOD; one God who created this virtual cosmos.
Consider any religious faith and how it centers upon a supernatural figure in Bodily form; a “Spiritual” figure. All faiths (religions) are social in nature and have the purpose of making life and death, meaningful and good. This theory (the Virtual-Infinite Universe Theory) postulates God represented by Holy Spirits. We may have separate viewpoints or personal opinions from which we account for our being, but there is no benefit in rivalry “faiths”.
We each live in (sense) a unique finite Universe. Each Body is completely separate in its accountability for its intentions. A Body’s infinite Soul is virtually alone. While we feel each other’s presence, we are alone to God.
Do not fear death. Let yourself, your Soul, experience this most universal and reasonable theory as a way to understand “life” and to dissolve your fear of “death”. We were not created to fear God, or life, or our imminent death.
Consider the Lilies of the Field…, our “Universe” is only a “stage” for our Soul to learn the nature of God. We can learn without fear; our lessons are in God’s control. How could a loving God create these dreadful situations? Dire physical pain and mental anguish are simply God’s intentional lessons.
Use what happens in your life as a lesson to help you to learn to know God.
It isn’t easy to clearly unveil the Infinite Universe Theory and its potential philosophical issues. This Virtual-Infinite Universe Theory is an attempt to discern the real “Universe” objectively by extracting the apparent non-truths from the reasonable truths. It is also a very serious attempt to present a new universal religious theory that can accommodate all current religions while abiding by the Scientific Laws of Physics that regulate our finite Universe.
This theory uniquely provides a structure that allows Science to agree with all religious faiths. Specific issues for differing “faiths” may not seem to be congruent within this theory (faith), and scientific viewpoints may state very differing facts and opinions for what is “infinite” and what is “finite”. Each person must decide what is true or not true according to their own thinking.
The Body herein, is divided into two unique regions: an internal Body, and an external Body. The internal Body resides with the Soul (mind), and the external Body lives in the physical Universe. When our physical Body dies and no longer has energy, our internal mind subtly shifts into our Soul; an endless state. Our Soul and our internal Body share our Id (mind), which is connected to the Ego and the Super Ego. Our Id supervises our Ego and our Super Ego. Our Id is the final decision-maker and it remembers our Earthly “lifetime” after we die. Then, our mind can know and love God; immortally.
The external Body is made up of our sensual mechanics and the physics of the electro-chemical Body. We can not sense with the internal Body (mind) because it is a state of mental energy. We only sense with our external Body in a physical manner. We can recognize other external Bodies and we can communicate physically. It is very difficult to focus on anything except our external presence. Our Soul communicates with our body emotionally as we realize internally the things we sense externally. The process of sensing the “Universe” is necessarily vague. We mistakenly desire Earthly possessions.
What matters is not what we externally feel matters; a true “paradox”. What is important in this theory is the belief that we “sense” our finite Universe in order to learn. We are in the process of sharing ourselves with God, and hopefully, knowing God, sincerely. Our Soul is responsible to God, but only for our intentions. Our true “intent” is what matters to God; to our fortuity.
Peace of mind (Soul) is the goal of this new theory. All religions can learn the lessons of God in paradoxes. Our Soul is responsible for our “actions”.
Paradoxical issues are purposeful challenges in our lives (to love or hate, be good or bad, be nice or hateful, and etc…). This Virtual-Infinite Universe Theory is a complex belief that God created “all” to have witnesses thereto.
In the Infinite Universe Theory, there is no “sin”, and therefore, no actual “punishment” for sin; to our relief! Our purpose herein is to learn about God; “forgiveness” is sensible, regardless. We progress based upon “intent”.
We feel joy in sensations as we learn to know God. Sexual sensations begin very young and lead us to generosity, sharing, and reliance upon each other. It can seem fulfilling to “love” each other in our learning arena; love is trust.
No matter what a person’s bearing is, he (she) can feel a great joy in their sexual sensations (inner feeling); imagine too, how great the joy is in your love for God. As God has created you in His image, so also will you create.
Procreation is God’s way of creating Bodies. You who have procreated can rejoice in your association with God’s creating. Adults and children have an equal standing with God; we are all God’s “children”. Treat everyone in your life equally; regardless of their age. No person is above you, or below.
Everyone is equal at their birth; all are God’s children. That is always true.
Any form of loving is good if it leads you to God; your caring reveals intent.
It doesn’t matter in what milieu you feel love (trust), if it is felt “sincerely”.
Trust (love) can evoke sexual sensations innately; joyful when your trust is shared. It can be evocative as such, propagation (nurture) and “self”. The true sincerity of your intent is the “key” to knowing God, regardless of any sexual sensations you may feel as a man (or woman). Sex (love) is “trust”; invariably concise when it is a selfish act. Sex, trust, and joy are inherently related, naturally; as are envy, selfishness, and hate. Paradoxical lessons, all.
God purposefully linked them to create anticipation in our drive to “know”.
Neither of them are “sins”, as their sense credits “intent”; by this, you can love “hate” or hate “love”, as well, and you can hate “hate” or love “love”. Nothing in your journey is as concrete as you would like to assume; thorny!
“Love” is synonymous with confusing sexual sensation and one’s trust; that doesn’t mean that you can’t be trusting (loving) by any means. It just means that you must be vigilant in your journey to “know”; regardless of any peril!
As we age our mind matures, but, our ability to love is always within reason.
God has created us to love each other; and God. Love for each other reveals our intent to love God; to know God. Sexual sensations can be confused for trust, however, and can become a paradoxical lesson in our journey to know God. When our sexual sensations (joy) become confused with trust, we are experiencing a polarization effect upon us in God’s paradoxical finite arena.
This can cause conflict and difficulty in our propagation and in our learning.
There are numerous ways that polarization affects us as we move through our life. Love (trust) can surely become hate (distrust). Our life can plainly become indifferent as to our intent to love God; we become confused about our intentions and the intentions of others in order to seek a satisfying poise.
We may commit “criminal” acts, regardless, in order to have “satisfaction”.
It is God’s lesson that separates our vain intention from our Godly intention.
God may send us on many unique journeys until God’s purpose is fulfilled.
All men are criminals to learn God’s lessons; punishment can have an actual influence upon future behaviors. Man punishes crimes (sins) overtly without Godly authority, but, in order to stop other crimes; a dicey sociological idea.
Crime in any form is subjective according to one’s viewpoint. Do not try to adjudicate crime, whatever its degree. God will know the true intent of any man; regardless of his actions. When anyone commits a crime against any person, or animal, their intent to know God suffers by default. It is wrong to harm any of God’s finite creatures (intentionally commit any crime) as it undoubtedly goes against one’s intent to know and to love the one true God.
God, however, will determine whether we “know” Him, or not. Crime and sin are man’s terminology and have little influence upon God’s adjudication.
Man struggles with “love” and “hate” in many areas; an expense of free will.
Our Godly purpose requires us to have a “free will” regarding our intentions, no matter which path we take; so the end result will be “true” in God’s mind.
It may take many journeys until we reach the end; ironically, the beginning!
We can learn to know God as the criminal or the victim; both teach lessons.
Crimes are not valued by God for one’s acts committed; but by one’s intent.
That doesn’t mean it is alright to commit dire crimes (sins); by any rationale.
Crimes will be punished in the finite arena as God sees therein a true lesson.
As far as our (human) ability to control our (human) behaviors (considered sins), it is dependant upon one’s viewpoint whether a crime (sin) has really been committed. It doesn’t matter to God what any man tries to adjudicate; the weight of a man’s intent is far greater than any perceived terrible crime.
There are many crimes (sins) that are committed with good intent. Man has constructed a harmful system to adjudicate crimes, and many suffer through wrongful punishment. Should any man be caged for years and years for any reason (crime)? Victims suffer regardless of any finite human punishments.
Man adjudicating crimes (sins) is in itself a crime (sin) as it clearly goes against God; the true prosecutor of wrongful intent. Many acts that are considered crimes (sins) are prosecuted by men with tainted selfish goals.
Men who adjudicate other men will be adjudicated by God for their intent.
Society needs to control crime, even though it can be an underlying event.
Crimes are committed that are never adjudicated in our finite justice system; adjudicated by God without fail, however, a “just” intercession for “intent”.
You will never “get away with” any crime (sin) in the end; your real intent.
Unfortunately, we are merely at the mercy of our own sociological demise.
Man simply cannot prosecute crimes (sins) perfectly, and should not engage in that vein. What about victims and bystanders who suffer from the crimes (sins) of another? Victims do suffer the actions (sins) of a dire wanton man.
A victim’s path is left to God’s pity and God’s power to reimburse; or to not.
Both, the criminal and the victim can learn therein, to know and love God as it is intended. Our lessons come in sadness and in joy; a continuous course.
God will fairly prosecute all by “intent”. It is critical in this learning arena to trust also that God will attend to all fairly; even the victim can learn when a crime is committed against him (or her). Lastly, it is a lesson for patience.
Trusting in God to provide us with true lessons and a true knowledge in the end is our pathway to immortal joy. Trust by observation, or with a blind-faith, as your “free will” leads you to learn the wisdom of our one true God.
As you learn to know God, you learn to know yourself, and your purpose.
So-called criminals routinely re-commit their crime because they have lost all hope in their fate within man’s finite parameters. They are “outsiders” who are left to believe that a life of crime is their only logical investment.
Do not give-up on any criminal as he is always a child of God; regardless.
Even the worst crimes may have originated from good intent; let God say.
Everyone has a criminal potential depending upon how their life unfolds.
God will always monitor our progress and adjust our finite learning arena.
It is truly all about trusting in God, and learning to “know” God; sincerely.
God’s mercy is a mandate for us to continue learning until we “know” God.
There is no reason for God to value our “sins”; God is unaffected thereby.
If we truly intend to know and love God in our life, we surely do not “sin”. Our so-called “sins” simply show our probable intent to truly “know” God.
It is God’s assessment of our true intent that makes us immortal; not “sins”.
It is God’s intent, ironically, that men desire to prosecute men (a thirst for power) in the name of Godliness. We all seek power in our learning arena.
The power of prosecution and adjudication belong to God; and only God.
Our Id, Ego, or Super Ego may experience suffering because of our Body’s actions; “lessons” in our life. Suffering is very real, and this religious theory does not dispel suffering; anguish or pain. That we are “forgivable” does not mean that we are free of suffering during our lessons. God is our “teacher”.
We are “students” of God’s persistent lessons; we fight to appreciate peace, we hate to understand love, we cry to know laughter, and on and on we go…
Rich or poor alike suffer the lessons of God’s Infinite Universe. Every Body has an independent Soul; God’s lessons are independent as well. Only our “intent” to learn about God is of value to God; our social position has none.
Your intent to know God can be your greatest “asset” in this human arena.
Rich and poor, all races, all religions, and even all levels of “intelligence” are responsible for their own intentions. We are all alone in our “intent” to know God, even as we desire companionship. Even if two married people die at the same time, they are each “alone” in death. Life is all about death. Earthly happiness generated by materialistic greed is but a fleeting illusion.
When we learn God’s lessons, we begin to know God. It may take more than one “lifetime” to learn the lesson(s) of God; “reincarnation”. Many true religions believe in “reincarnation”; here it is only a possibility. God has created our learning arena to accommodate any vessel; or any combinations.
We are going against God’s purpose for our creation when we desire to control our “Universe”. Although we may have an innate desire to control our surroundings (our “Universe”), we can not be God. Our lessons in life are to learn (about God) as a being with good intentions, and to become one with our Soul. God may then have us become Godly Spirits as well; lastly.
Our focus upon our “Universe” blinds us to the original purpose for our being created. We tend to focus upon ourselves (Id, Ego, and Super Ego). Many want to be powerful. Self-indulgence can be a vain obstacle to our learning. Our desire for power can become a paradoxical lesson from God.
“Power” in our finite life is a paradoxical lesson. No matter what the vein of power is, (money, fame, skill, intelligence, strength, or etc.), it can easily be seductive and debilitating in your journey to know God. A “rich” man can truly intend to please God by his efforts to reduce pain or anguish wherever, but still not trust in God for his own sake. Utter wealth can be a dire lesson.
Many forms of “power” induce “lessons”; God teaches in paradoxical ways.
Possession and Power are persuasive obstacles that may keep you from knowing God, and loving Him as your true Creator. While “ownership” plainly feels powerful, it is simply a false security that can misdirect you away from God’s intentional purpose. You did not create the finite arena you are in, and you cannot “own” anything in it. God possesses all things in the virtual-infinite Universe, including all apparent finite materials, and all beings. Sacrifice your desire to own (control) your lessons. Do not become allured by shiny trinkets, or pretty things that your peers may crave, or have, or anything that makes you feel so powerful that you forget your purpose; to know and love the one true God. You will be secure in God’s true wisdom.
Only when “ownership” runs parallel to your intent to know and love God is it reasonable, and then it is fleeting necessarily. God does not detest your joy in “ownership” if it is indeed for enhancing your desire to know God. A sincere generosity in God’s purpose will produce true joy; impeccably so!
Paradoxically, you cannot possibly “have your cake and eat it too”. Which?
Ironically, your greatest joy will come in knowing; wisdom exceeds control.
You can never control your environment or your fate; except to have intent.
Sacrifice your Earthly possessions and trust God to satisfy your inner being.
If you have an overt abundance of assets, real estate, cash, savings, financial investments, or etc. (wealth), then, you are intentionally committing at least two errors. First, you are not trusting God to uphold you in your finite arena (as God will do), and secondly, you are not using (all of) your power for the sake of “seeding God’s flowers”; giving your whole “wealth” to help others.
“Seeding” one’s wealth means to use it intentionally to provide others with an opportunity to learn (know) God’s wisdom. It shows one’s sincere intent.
Sincerity is an absolute in the “seeding” of one’s wealth; no acts of “vanity”.
Trust and intent (true trust and true intent) will lead you to a true wisdom.
Many wealthy people believe they can achieve immortality without “trust”.
Using only some of your “power” for God’s sake shows you do not “trust”.
We live in our finite arena until we know God; only then can we know God.
“Power” in our infinite afterlife is unnecessary. There will be no exclusive advantages in the presence of God. All who know God “are” in God’s light.
This theory is an inspiration (from God); not just another pious conjecture.
God has inspired this unique theory to benefit your journey. It is up to you to focus upon God’s message. Consider your life and what your intent is. Then, decide what you can do to further your true intent; hopefully to know.
This subjective theory can never explain God’s creation or God’s plan fully. It can only reach the limits of Man’s limited vocabulary. It is honest to say that it is “inspired” as it seems; however, I cannot calculate God’s Creation.
I sincerely believe that this “inspired” theory has reason and it can unite all.
Science and Religion unite! All faiths unite! Male and female, black and white, brown and yellow, rich and poor can unite herein. Set aside your old religious documents and affiliations. Unite as individuals (not affiliations) to see the light of God that leads all to know; finally all will know one God.
Decide to know your purpose! Decide to stop pain and anguish! Unite in a singular focus; to know God. Learn to know God together, as “individuals”, not as an organized faction that has a collective purpose; politically aligned.
You will know God by your individual lessons and format. Do not be led by affiliations that obstruct your true purpose. You are born alone, you will die alone, and you will witness God as one. Unite to share, but, not to empower.
When you focus upon this new theory, you will find peace; and no longer fear “death”. This theory condemns nothing, and, it can truly enlighten you.
This unique religious theory does not condemn any religious organization; it only sets them aside so that everyone can learn together without affiliations.
If you do affiliate, do it to with judgment and restraint; maintain self-control.
All faiths are “righteous” in this unique supposition. Your religious faith may appear in a different light, but it is equivalent in its “holiness” herein.
You do not need to end your allegiance or suffer indifference here; you will only learn to know God (and yourself) with more confidence and humility.
Simply set your old faith, your old leaders, and your old documents aside, and think about this new concept that allows all faiths and Science to agree.
Our finite Universe evolves as God polarizes our finite lessons. Reversing the polarity of our finite lessons causes our evolution. We live within an evolving virtual finite creation. You were created by an infinite (unlimited) loving God for the purpose of “knowing”. Your purpose is to “know” GOD.
This is truly an inspiration from God that has reason and gives hope to all who feel confused and separated from knowing their true purpose in “life”.
If your “free will” has led you to this supposition and you find what is here to be reasonable, and you are inspired by its religious content, and you truly believe it is God’s inspiration (without error), then, and only then, will you be able to see this loving message as a principle theory for your whole being.
Go forth and learn God’s lessons (all) with an open heart and mind, even in difficult circumstances (or in joy) you can see God’s light leading your path.
It is never God’s purpose to create you and then to let you suffer your death without purpose or reason. You are a final witness to God’s creation; freely!
First be at peace with yourself, then all others, then with God; a free witness.
You were created with a free will to choose which path to take as you travel.
It is imperative that you are learning herein by you own “free will” and not because of any manipulation or control from any venue. You are alone here.
It is also imperative that you truly feel God’s hand in this message; inspired!
I sincerely believe that we were created purposefully by one God; virtually, to be witness to His Creation, (a virtual-infinite cosmos without limitations).
I also sincerely believe that God is represented by Godly Spirits who have at some time in history visited our finite Universe and presented themselves as Godly Spirits, yet humans, whom we have adorned as religious icons in our various Earthly religions (faiths); all are God (all represent God’s authority or have a Holy authority in documents and tales). We can acclaim them all.
If everyone can agree to accept all of the apparent religious icons (faiths) as having one purpose, to please God, without indifference to any of them, and all having Godly purpose (as true Godly Spirits), then, we will have a more joyous and more peaceful World to live in. This is my unqualified opinion.
It will not offend our true creator if we are sincerely aimed toward knowing and loving the one true God; while setting aside our beloved “Godly icons”, and previous religious documents, and all otherwise religious organizations.
We can set aside all religious leaders/preachers, churches/institutions, and all “religious books”, regardless of their historic influence, to clear up our mind.
NOTHING IS BEING DESTROYED, DEMINISHED, OR CONDEMNED.
The Religious Answer: A Virtual-Infinite Universe is an inspired “theory” that can unite “believers” with a cogent supposition that will make our dire finite Universe more meaningful as it avows one infinite “Creator”; our God.

Well said Dave!

Whether you believe in God or the Devil or you do not… it is your choice. We all have to find our own truth as individuals. There is not just one truth for everyone. It is my belief that what each of us as individuals has to find a belief in most of all is in ourselves. I believe we all have to find the answers within ourselves and not outside of ourselves. If we trust and believe in ourselves we will find peace and understanding, and in the end isn’t that what most of humanity is looking for!

Janice,
The wind can be explained in the physical world. It is the movement in air due to the warming and cooling of the atmosphere. Not a good analogy for an abstract idea like Satan or God

Satan is within us, daily, on our dirty minds, on our selfish behaviour, on our weak minds. Satan is what you call it when you knowingly do something that wasn’t nice … period. Evil doesn’t make you an evil person, our evilish behaviour creates the evil circumstances that are viewed as Satan’s work. So, BE NICE.

Yes Satan do exist. The person who say he is not in the Old Testament. Read Genesis chapter 3:1-15, then 1 Chronicles 21 verse 1. Jesus is Lord and you can only come in by him. I remember when there were no rain across the south in some states I belive a year ago. The drinking water was short. When they prayed to the Lord Jesus Christ then it rain. You tell me who is in control. He only have to withhold something you really need and you will acknowledge him.

It is “primitive” to believe that the world revolves around me. That’s how children think. Informed, mature and wise people realize that their life is about more than themselves and that there are greater forces that are impacting their lives. I am a Christian who agrees that many people blame Satan for things that God actually did. I believe that “The Earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof.” I compare it to a child who throws a rock and breaks a window. You blame the child if they do it on their own. You blame the parent if the child asked the parent if they could do it and the parent said “yes”. The Bible states that the Devil goes to God every day and asks His permission to do things. So God does allow “bad” things to happen and in Romans 8:28 it says that ALL things work together for good for those who love Him and are called for His purpose. So stop thinking that because bad things happen there is no God. Stop thinking that all bad things are Satan’s fault. Know that God has a greater plan for your life, have faith that He will get you through good and bad times. Be Blessed!

Dave,
One may be born into a belief system, but one is not born into being Saved, which means that at death we will be with Jesus in Heaven. As said above, I say that if I am wrong in my belief, we just die and that is it. But if I am correct, I live on with Jesus in Heaven and you live on with Satan/The Deceiver of Old in the place of torment which was made for Satan and his followers.
I especially commend the wonderful people who described their belief in God and Jesus in so many ways. Thanks to God

Superstitious bumpkins have held us back as a race for centuries. Time to take off the blinders and see the Universe for what it is instead of wailing to gods and devils and all other forms of superstition. Religion poisons everything.

Top Ten Signs You Are A Fundamentalist Christian
5 – You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 – You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs — though excluding those in all rival sects – will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most “tolerant” and “loving.”
3 – While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in “tongues” may be all the evidence you need to “prove” Christianity.
2 – You define 0.01% as a “high success rate” when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 – You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history – but still call yourself a Christian.

No, God is all powerful and defeats Satan. There is no satan or hell it is just scare tactics. A loving God would not let such things happen.

Why hold a debate at a church? Maybe next time at the American Atheists visitors center? Nah…that would make the debate biased… : )

There’s far too much pain, grief, and suffering around us all today in this world, and in what may be percieved to be seen as a “living hell” existing here and now on this earth, so the existence of Satan and the Devil may probably fit in well with this whole perception here.
There is, however, a great shift in conscioussness now taking place in many people all across the globe today, and may hold out much real hope and promise for a new and far Better World on the horizon.

This debate is a moot point. One side is trying to prove a point from a Biblical perspective while the rebuttal is from another source. The outcome will never arrive to the real truth, but we are all left to choose the better “opinion.” If they really wanted to make their debate meaningful, then start with proving the validity and authority of the Bible and if it’s proven to be a fake and totally nonsense, then all else fail with the Christian belief, but if it speaks wisdom and truth, then Depak Chopra and all mockers must concede.
EC

Satan, GOD, JESUS, SPIRITS, ANGELS, DEMONS…
What do most (almost all) beliefs have in common? Is it not someone, or something claiming power from being someone or somewhere?
I personally came from a Baptist type of background, but have had since some ‘rather-interesting’ experiences from being in Iraq where I’ve seen some spirits, I’d say some good, some bad. With what some would say a ‘loonatic’ “information” received when told.
All this has to do with one main key thing, have you ever seen a ‘ghost’, ‘demon’, ‘spirit’, ‘angel’, or ‘unknown-being’? Have you ever known anyone with a near-death experience? (near-death experiences have quite similiar similarities no matter what religion the people have to believe.) How do you know that the Mormans haven’t been ‘Created’ by GOD due to the Muslims to create a ‘Path’ to GOD from the past? How do you know that what so many different ‘RPG’ (Role Playing Games) I.E. Runescape, World of Warcraft, etc… any-type of 3-Dimensional game involving ‘Evil’ things to be taken down with certain weapons? How do we know that those games weren’t ‘inspired’ and given form and creation from another ‘thing’ either ‘good or bad’ to create an awareness of the real-truth that is out there that some accept and some rather look at as a mere joke of reality? I know some people who choose to consider living in WOW (Just playing the game) as their own reality and this actual ‘flesh world’ as nothing more than a hindrance to what they want to be at and doing?
I just think bottom line that, There is a GOD, there is a Satan, but I also am open to the consideration that there’s other beliefs being present with ‘power’ but since no one believes, or practices that belief that religious figure (I.E. god-head power) has no power because no one believes in it.
Can you consider what would happen if no one believed in Christianity *A being capable of Love, Compassion, Caring, Judgement, anything good*
And instead of just believing in Satan? *A being known or accused of taking, stealing, killing, hurting, possessing, injuring, and anything bad*
If someone stopped beleiving (in beings) then at worste when something came and actually presented it to you *whoever* that is a ‘super-natural’ or possibly presenting itself to you in a ‘human-form’ with ‘supernatural-powers’ (I.E. possibly Anti-Christ)then the one presenting itself would have Supreme Capabilities to be understood and accepted as their ‘ruler’ or ‘conquerer’ for whatever good, or bad it may be.
I’m not annotating that Humans are ‘beings’ but I’m not annotating that ‘beings’ cannot be in a disguise to be amused and entertained by mere humans.
Like the song from Michael W. Smith (Angel Trilogy) Where the key words are “Maybe we are entertaining angels unaware…” *which I personally enjoy very much his songs but that’s a side note* And yes, that is a Christian Singer, but I’m also entertained at the songs that other Singers and Artists use in their lyrics too talking about the Bad, or the Songs that have words like, “Molly are you okay, Molly are you okay now,” words, and actions being done and said in songs really create a symbolic message behind the media’s image which literally has a ‘subliminal message’ if someone was to be doing the digging and searching in both the ‘neutral, good, and bad sides’ of the forms and creations…
To not pay attention to things is to show ignorance, but to see, and understand it then claim ignorance is stubbornness.
If you want to have a e-mail conversation I am fair game for response, just please give me time to respond for I am not always at the computer checking e-mail… at waterscalming@gmail.com

Yes, Satan exists. She is not a demon or some other symbol that may be used to represent her. She is collectively the evil in the world. She is the reason we have totally failed government at the national, state, and local levels. Failed government is, in turn, the source of all other evil in the world. We the People can do good in our lives by starting to pressure the useless dung that now fills the government jobs to start doing their jobs–or yield those jobs to some of us, who will actually do something useful in those positions. Satan is failed government and all of its consequences.

YES, SATAN IS REAL… HE’S CURRENTLY IN THE OVAL OFFICE….

A belief in God would certainly seem to make Satan a part of that belief… since all things were created in pairs, in duality, positive/negative, male/female, good/evil, hot/cold, life/death, Democrat/Republican etc. (just kidding on the last set ;)!
The original meaning of Satan, was an obstacle on one’s path,
Astrologically, Saturn, is the planet that constricts, limits and puts obstacles before us…in this life.
It is is the taskmaster, teaching us what we must learn in the flesh to progress as spiritual beings….
Personally, it is my belief, that if there indeed be a Satan, then Satan works “with” the Creator for the betterment of humankind.
For it is when we overcome obstacles, when we overcome hardships or “evils” that we have learned the most about ourselves and others…overcoming such evil is where we become wise and find true strength. It is when we have gone through great trials in life that we come to see the simple beauty that surrounds us constantly.
There is good and “evil” in all people and in all things that pertain to people like governments, religions, or organizations and such.
And then there is the freedom of choice, even God, it seems is prochoice, we have that freedom to choose to make good decisions or not…
even to our deaths…
good decisions or not, are the seeds that we plant, so that as we sow we shall truly reap, is the purest of truths. I have seen this reality of cause and effect many times and know that it is very real.
Though I quote the Bible, I do not believe in it, as it has become in these days… yet small quips of wisdom lay within it’s pages still, undisturbed by the constant reinterpretations by man.
A belief in Anything gives it strength and makes it real. As all thoughts have energy, those energies should not dwell upon Satan as some evil entity but, rather as an energy that we must overcome to find what is right and good in the world, to find our true selves as spiritual beings and not these fleshy bodies that we become so attached to that we fear death…

I think we can all agree that good and evil exist, but the question was whether a very specific evil god named Satan exists.
To put this in context, the remaining programs in this series will debate the existence of Thor, Dionysus, Ba’al, Zeus, Jehovah, Mithridates, Loki, and the FSM. There will also be several short segments on the actual honest-to-god reality of Hercules, Macbeth, Tom Sawyer, and the Ferengi named Quark.

1. Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2. And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3. And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6. And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9. And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
12. Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;
As we see from this passage in the Bible, Satan is the god of this world (for now). He has power and is the root cause of Sin.

whether one believes in satan’s existence or not, how would it change the way you live your life? should we not all be living our lives as the greatest spiritual beings have taught and following their examples? the best way to battle “evil” is with love, kindness, goodness, forgiveness. if you are striving to create a world filled with love, and if you want to reference the bible there are numerous suggestions on how to do this, there is really no need for this argument. the parties on both sides of this discussion can hold their beliefs and respect one another for them, where is the harm in this?

==Belief has nothing to do with facts! ==
(Heb 11:1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Substance and evidence. Facts.
(2Co 4:18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
(Heb 11:3) Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse…

Oh..One more think; Just picture this;
Satan comes forth, risen, reborn and a new creation in the Flesh of a woman. She goes before the US Supreme Court and throws the BOOK at the Judges; or back into Court; claiming Breach of Contract, Honor, Oaths and promises that were sworn on the bible by All US presidents and public officials. Satan contends that the word “NO” in the first AMENdment is a Tort. “Congress shall make No law respecting an establishment of religion”. So Satan or She claims since women didnt get the vote, choice, or decent respect of being asked about their religion convictions; the word No should be removed. Then Satan quotes the Deeclaration of Independence; asking for Separation and Throw Off of the body of government men who denied Her hand Her kind the same laws of nature and nature’s GOD those sons of guns were allowed to use and enjoy.
The constitution does not require they swear an oath on the bible; but the Courts allowed its use as a instrument of law and fully legal and binding contract that was passed down to US all under the wills of our forefathers i.e., Abraham, Lincoln and Red Cloud.
Peace out

MB,
You’re gonna have to explain that to the unbeliever who probalby STILL won’t understand it.

As a matter of fact, the statement
== So then “It is for this cause the man is to leave his father and his mother to cleave unto his wife; and the twain shall be one flesh; aint no mystery no more and thats why Jesus Christ is called the Bridegroom to come. . ==
and my reply
“I hadn’t thought about THAT point, that the creation of physical female from a piece of the man, and the command for the two to cleave into one flesh, simulates — is a type and shadow of — the coming of Christ, that this union is also to produce Godly children [Mal 2:15 AMP]”
are the kinds of mysteries of God that you can’t get by reading the Word as you do a newspaper, or textbook.

==…Satan agreed to accept that free gift of salvation offered all at calvary’s cross.==
WHERE is this “agreement”?

Why sure he does. God in all of His loving kindness toward his us, ‘His creations,’ built into us a sinful nature, so that when we fall short he can consign us to an eternity of torture and unending agony. He loves us too much to forgive and forget so he gives us over to Satan if we aren’t good enough. With love like that, you wonder what happens to those of His creations that he hates.
Actually, no there is no Satan. God wouldn’t allow it. The Bible authors added it because they felt people would abuse God’s infinate mercy.

Without exception, every religion that ever existed has been an exercise in do-it-yourself hypnosis. That’s the whole point of their function — to calm and control the frightened beast.

==Actually, no there is no Satan.==
Actuall, yes there is.
== God wouldn’t allow it.==
He doesn’t. We do.
After all, Jesus defeated the works of the Devil. He showed us how not to give authority to the Devil. Some of us take Him seriously. Those who don’t live in denial.
== The Bible authors added it because they felt people would abuse God’s infinate mercy. ==
Garbage.

Satan exist because it is an evil, human suppressing, earth destroying, lustful, greedy, gluttony force that humans have to have virtue to control because we are FLESH; Just as God (or our creator, whether you believe scientific or spiritual)created us without supernatural powers so that we must practice virtue and self-control—– so does “satan” have power over humans because we are not capable of maintaining our earthly control unless we practice control of our flesh with a conscience and virtue.
Humans were created as a paradox. We live this way every day. It is unavoidable. Satan exist because we are in a constant struggle with what we should be and become. From childhood till death, each human struggles on a journey (and hopefully, progressive journey)for self-fulfillment, gratification, enlightenment, joy, love; At the same time this requires one be cognizant of the “self” and thoughts. To be fully cognizant is in itself a paradox and a balancing act. It means you need to know what thoughts to filter in and what thoughts to filter out and at exactly the right time. Thus, you must balance your desires of the FLESH and needs. This is where “satan” forces exist because one can’t ALWAYS be cognizant and know what is pure desire and what’s really necessary for the preservation and growth of the “self”.

Only in the hearts of men!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God is a positive light force and only light and love can be there. Therefore, if God is love and light and he created all things he would not have created negative force or evil. That, my friends is the work of humans. Amen.

Yes he exixts and delights in the fact that people deny his existence. The greatest strategy he has is in the diversions we are all preoccupied with.

I know you’ve been brought up or ushered into the belief that the bible is the infallible word of God, (I used to truly believe the same) but seriously, it’s pathetic.
Stop quoting verses from what others here have aptly and correctly described as a Bronze Age book of popular myths.
Do some research. Don’t put your abiding faith and trust (and whole LIFE) in what MAN wrote and the churches rewrote and mandated from !!thousands!! of years ago.
Think about it, do we still believe chanting makes it rain?!? You’re not being lead astray by the devil if you use your brain and think and ask questions. That’s why we understand the way things work now. That’s how the human race has been able to grow, learn, discover and create all that we have in the course of our brief existence on this planet. (50,000 years as modern humans…and hundreds of thousands of years as tool making beings.)
Dig a little deeper and don’t be afraid to find the truth that you’ve been buying into myth and lies.
Sure it seems scary to think that everything you’ve been taught is B.S. and that everything you’ve “interpreted” as spiritual moments in your own life are just a result of the way our brains work (especially in tandem with societal influences)…but why live in a delusion?
Sure it’s more comforting to call on blind faith, a loving God and a malevolent Satan, but take some responsibility and step into the 21st century and learn something!!! This backwards view of God and Satan is just pathetically uninformed given what the human race now KNOWS.
See my post from 6:29am above for some good resources if you want to discover the real TRUTH. It’s right there at your fingertips if you have the intelligence to seek it out and the independence to stop being spoon fed from your same old sources.
And I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but the Bible and every other religious text out there can NOT be taken literally or seriously. Please…seek truth.

==Stop quoting verses …==
No.
What’s the matter, they burning your eyes?

I was very disappointed last night with your show. Your quality dropped from its normal high. It was a fight between non equals. One side was uneducated while the other has vast knowledge and it just fell flat and had no depth.
Could you do this again with real qualified theologians? This topic is just to important to just throw in the wind. With viewers all over the world, you should keep the edge sharp.

Satan is just a way for people like that wh*re to blame something besides themselves for the stupid things they’ve done. The bible is a buncha crap, it wasn’t written by Jesus, it was edited by the stupid catholics because they wanted to control everyone with fear. And whaddyaknow it worked!!! For THOUSANDS of years it’s still working. Sad sad sad….

To Dave who’s Uncle is in Brazil preaching to hundreds.
You might better change that to thousands. If your Uncle is who I think he is, he doesn’t just preach, he teaches. The one I’m talking about just got back from Brazil.Furthermore, by the power of the Holy Spirit, he heals. He is one of the greatest teachers of the Bible on earth today. I saw him in Atlanta,Ga, I saw glory on the faces of people there. I saw people healed, I saw demons cast out just like when Jesus cast out demons from the man who had so many they called themselves legend. You have had the chance that others may never have, to have learned from such great teachers in your family. You should be ashamed because you must surely KNOW that satan exists, he must be trying to get into your mind.DON’T LET him IN. I watch your Uncle on the TBN network channel 52 in central Florida. By the way I am not the same religion as my parents or of the same political party. I am my own person I’ve researched and listened and let the Holy Spirit guild me to the truth, He can only speak the truth and the truth will set you free. I am a true BELIEVER. I have experienced God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and yes satan and no one will ever change the way I believe. May God have mercy and bless us, and forgive our sins.
Love to all. Ruby

==No one will ever be able to say 100% if God or Satan exists…==
(Heb 11:1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Substance. Evidence. Facts.

==If the promise of Heaven and or the fear of Hell are your only motivation for being a good person then nothing you do is ever simply to glorify God but to selfishly gain some eternal reward. ==
In other words, to YOU, in YOUR world, God is an Object from Whom to take and take and take. Is THAT the way you treat people, too?
We love Him, not just to get prizes. We love Him cuz He loved us first and performed His promises, and we wanna take Him up on His promise to give us eternal life.
(1Co 2:9) But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

resistence —> resistance

==If the promise of Heaven and or the fear of Hell are your only motivation for being a good person…==
Define “good person”? What is “good” enough?
==… then nothing you do is ever simply to glorify God but to selfishly gain some eternal reward.==
That’s the Muslim way, not the Christ way.
== What ever happend to living with integrety [sic].==
Whose?
== For those of you who don’t know the word, it’s the willingness to do the right thing in the absense [sic] of supervision (God) or reward (Heaven).==
“Separation from God” is the definition of “sin.” Absence from God would be separation from Him.
Separate from Him, it is impossible to do the “right” thing.
==Integrety [[sic], self respect and respect for others are the principals [sic] that guide my life.==
So, you get to make it all up as you go along. How convenient. No judge other than yourself. So, do I also get to be the judge of what I do, or must I submit my wishes to you first?
== Satan seems to be showing up more and more in the pews and pulpits of the worlds religious institutions spewing hatred and intolerance in the name of God.==
Translation: “Anything that is said that is not in line with what I think, in my own made-up integrity and goodness, is hatred.”
==If you are using the words God and hates together, maybe you need to take a second look at the path your following in your spiritual life.==
Sooo, YOU get to judge, according to YOUR agenda, whether, when we use the Word of God, we are communicating hate, huh?
Well, I don’t submit to you, twinkletoes. I submit to God and let the chips fall where they may.

That man who is call the “Father of lies,The god( little G) of this world, the deceiver, according to the bible would deceive many,even elect,” is real.
According to the Bible,Satan comes to steal,kill and destroy. The only way he
can fulfilled his work,is by dening
his existance and allowing his to do whatever he wants in our lives.Conclusion; when we do so,he will invade with no mercy.

Watching the entire uncut version of the Satan debate was great. I don’t agree with any of the panelists, who were all either Christian or at least spiritual. Being an atheist, I think there are no external spiritual forces of any kind, good OR evil, and that when humans do evil things, it comes entirely from within them. Some of these people can be rehabilitated, but some cannot.
I do believe that believing in mythical or spiritual beings IS the cause of most historical wars and cultural hatreds, because it allows people to think in terms of ME versus THEM, as Deepak Chopra pointed out. I believe that because human beings are social animals and must live with one another, laws have to be created by society so that people do not harm one another, and that because we can never totally get rid of people who will chose to do evil, we must either lock these people away from others or rehabilitate them.
All evil comes from within. But so does all good.

==…believing in mythical or spiritual beings IS the cause of most historical wars and cultural hatreds, because it allows people to think in terms of ME versus THEM…==
Except that the Godless killed more than anybody in the past hundred years.
==…because human beings are social animals and must live with one another, laws have to be created by society so that people do not harm one another, and that because we can never totally get rid of people who will chose to do evil, we must either lock these people away from others or rehabilitate them.==
How do we know what’s good and what’s bad? Who makes THAt decision for all of us, based on what standard?
==All evil comes from within. But so does all good.
==
How do I know, then, which is which?

If God created all that is good, then He couldn’t have created what is bad. He cannot be dualminded and expect us to follow His Good if He also created bad cuz many would go bad and justify it by saying that He created bad, too.

So, is the Evangelist, up there at 3:27, saying that God has an evil side, that, if God is love, love must also be evil?
If THAT’s God’s Message, how do we know what to do?

(Rom 1:22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
(Rom 1:23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
(Rom 1:24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
(Rom 1:25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
(Rom 1:26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
(Rom 1:27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
(Rom 1:28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
(Rom 1:29) Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
(Rom 1:30) Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
(Rom 1:31) Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
(Rom 1:32) Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Sooo many questions and sooo many professing to know and without answers, even though the answers are readily available in His Word to those who are dilegent seekers of the Truth.

So, to some, God created Good and evil.
So, what’s with the mixed messages, then, if He wants to save us?

Jesus states in the Holy Bible that in John 3:16 “For God so loves the world that He gave his only begotten son that whoesover believes in Him shall not PERISH, that is, go to Hell, but have everlasting life, here on earth and in heaven. In John 10:10 Jesus also said that he gives life abundantly. However, Satan kills, steals, and destroys. Just remember the Bible is the Truth and it is Fact. Sally Finegold

Mr Incredible all of your logic is faulty because a FACT cannot be gleened from an unproven BELIEF and all of your so called facts stem from your belief that the Bible is the word of God. Even if you could prove that to be true, you also believe that anything that is filtered through man is tainted and since God did not sit down at a desk and write out the Bible Himself it cannot be a purely untarnished document no matter how devinly inspired it’s iterpretation has been influenced by the subjectivity and limitations of mans understanding of the infinite.

Again Mr. Incredible all of your argument stems from a documet that only holds water under your willingness to beieve in it there is no real fact in that only your faith. Facts hold a CONSISTENTLY OBSERVEABLE TRUTH, wether or not you believe it, that connot be attributed to any other cause. The story of the Ten Commandments is just that. There is no real proof that they came to us in the way stated in the Bible. You and many more choose to BELEIVE it’s true but that does not make it fact.

Yes, Satan exists. And he knows how to make a quick $100 million.
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/08/20/the-ghost-in-the-machines-the-mystery-of-the-wtc-hard-drive-recoveries/

==Facts hold a CONSISTENTLY OBSERVEABLE TRUTH…==
God’s promised performance, through His Word, has been consistently observed by me and others throughout the Ages. We say that we were not seeing and hearing things. You say we were, and, yet you have no proof other than to say that YOU didn’t see them, nor hear them. All THAT means is that you didn’t receive what was there and we did and do.

==Facts hold a CONSISTENTLY OBSERVEABLE TRUTH…==
Of course, first, we have to find out WHOSE “facts” you’re talking about.

What I did there I call a “prebuttal.”
“Prebuttal” anticipates an argument and shoots that outta the air before the other person can make it.

==Jesus states in the Holy Bible that in John 3:16 “For God so loves the world that He gave his only begotten son …==
God, in Genesis 1:3, spoke Light into the darkness, not darkness into light. He did not create the darkness so that He could speak Light into it cuz, when He first created, all was dark and void already, just like so many hearts, thanks to Adam and Eve.
Jesus was the True Light God spoke into existence. He came by — took the path of [least resistance?] — Grace and Truth.
Therefore, when you speak “Light be!” into the darkness of the world, you are doing what God did, speaking Grace and Truth into and to the world of darkness. It is a creative act.
God did not create evil, and, so, He does not tell you to speak evil into and to the world of darkness cuz it’s already there! He tells you to speak the Light of Grace and Truth, not dark, and He tells you the difference in Proverbs 18:21.

==Gods [sic] CONSISTANTLY OBSERVABLE TRUTH is most often not cosistant but sparatic…==
God’s truth is observable and consistent all the time. Others and I are witnesses to that fact.
==… (your prayers will not always be answered)…==
The prayers of His Children — that is, those who are born again — are always answered.
They aren’t always what we want. Sometimes, we hinder the answer. Sometime, we pray amiss. If the desire aligns with the Word of God, it is always answered. Actually, even if it does not align with the Word of God, it is answered — in the negative.
==… you cannot factually say that God was the cause…==
Either God is the cause, or He allowed the cause for His purposes. All things happen for the good for those who love Him. He may allow the disobedient to get away with something, not for the benefit of the disobedient person, rather for the benefit of the obedient person.
==… only that, through your faith, you believe him to be the cause.==
The First Cause — that is, God — happens whether I believe that He exists, or not, or whether I trust Him, or not. He will as He Wills. He didn’t wait for me in order to create the world.
== Try as you may but God and faith cannot intersect with fact.==
That, essentially, is what the Devil told Eve, in the Garden. Eve of course, was enticed by that argument, and she went on to entice Adam, and it continues today.
== If Gods [sic] existance [sic] could be proven [sic] there would be no need for faith.==
God exists apart from my faith. I didn’t just make Him up.
== You don’t have to put faith in the exisitance [sic] of a tree because you can see and feel it to prove its there.==
However, you must put faith in the existence of “love” and “beauty” cuz you can’t see them. So, you make my argument for me.
== And you are right, love and beauty are not facts either so you do have to have faith that someone loves you when they say they do. You can’t prove that they really do, you just choose to believe it or not. ==
Thanks for making my argument for me. You just defeated your own argument.

== And you are right, love and beauty are not facts either so you do have to have faith that someone loves you when they say they do. You can’t prove that they really do, you just choose to believe it or not. ==
“Love” and “beauty” DO exist. They exist in the spiritual dimension. They manifest themselves in the physical in many ways, according to private interpretation. That private interpretation may correspond with reality, or not. It depends on experience. It is not Science. It is life. It is not subject to scientific tests and proof. That doesn’t mean they aren’t any less real.
Faith gives you access to that reality. Faith gives you access to the reality of God, too. So, God is not subject to scientific proof, rather to the proof of life experience, just as “love” and “beauty” are not subject to scientific proof, rather to the proof of life experience.

(Heb 4:2) For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
(Heb 11:1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
There are facts accessible only by faith.
However,
(Joh 1:10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
(Joh 1:12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name…

I guess the Word of God is right: Mouths are stopped.

Those who know the least are usually the ones that shout the loudest…BC

There are an estimated 6.4 billion people on the planet with 6.4 billion separate beliefs, perceptions, experiences and interpretations. Each Major Religion has its groups of denomintions or sects that have its own interpretation of each “Holy Book”. The Bible, the Quran, etc. If you trace the origins of each religious book back as far as you can go their is no proof of authenticity or who the original writers. People have been born into families and communitotes that expouse certain beliefs. Those beliefs provide a basic I am from a small town in Georgia where yoi have hundreds of Christian Denominations where they disagree of ther interpretation of the bible. So there is no proof, there is a poltical history and motivation from the Emperor Constantine to create the Bible, and all the Christian Denomionations can’t agree on a unified interpretation. So does Satan exist? I don’t belive he does. But Can I prove that he doesn’t no. So I will take the most honest approach and say I don’t know but based on all the information provided. Belief is an assumption. Knowing something can only be gained through personal experience. Turn your belief systems into known systems. Do I know that my awareness survives without the body? Yes How do I know? I had several Out of Body experiences with validation. Did i ever see Satan? no Did I see others who were family memebers? Back to my point is people need to reseach what they believe and critically analyze it from every angle before they can impose their view onto another person before they can say another is wrong. Religious abuse can be one of the worst forms of abuse. it has lead to psychological disfunction, arguments, murder, and wars. Love, kindness, cooperation, giving, and compassion are subjective experiences in my own awareness that i know to be expression of the source of my life. So if believing in Satan is what you chose that is yoru choice. if you choose not to belive in Satain that is your choice. Most Christians use Circular reasoning to say that Satan exists by referencing the Bible. Now if Satan showed up on national Television and demostrated his power infront of billions or myself I may strongly consider his existence. Thank you ;)

==There are an estimated 6.4 billion people on the planet with 6.4 billion separate beliefs, perceptions, experiences and interpretations.==
The Devil is so pleased, too.

==… and unrepresentative of a true loving God. ==
Tell us what “love” is, according to God. After all, you must know, if you make that statement. Don’t tell us what the love does. Tell us what it IS.

==Most Christians use Circular reasoning to say that Satan exists by referencing the Bible.==
It’s not circular reasoning. It’s just that your head is spinning.
== Now if Satan showed up on national Television and demostrated his power infront of billions or myself I may strongly consider his existence.==
So, seeing is believing, to YOU.
That means that “love” and “beauty,” to YOU, don’t exist cuz you can’t see them. We get it.

==well all i can say is that i will be praying for you people that dont beleive but if you beleive in one you got to beleive in the other.it like this i rether live live my life beleiving there is a God and die and find out theres not. than to live my life like there is not a God an to die and find out that there is.so think about that for awhile because when you die it is to late.== — jessie
Thank you, jessie!

==Most Christians use Circular reasoning to say that Satan exists by referencing the Bible.==
We reference our own pre-born-again lives and experiences to prove that Satan exists. We also know that he attacks us every minute of every day, to no avail, of course, in those who are strong in the LORD. Then, we point to the Word of God Which warned us of Satan’s MO and devices.

Come on people…Mr. Incredible must be putting us on…nobody could possibly be that big a self-righteous, sanctimonious, narrow-minded idiot.

==Mr. Incredible must be putting us on…==
If I am putting you on, then the Word of God must be putting you on.
If the Word of God is not putting you on, then I am not putting you on.

==…nobody could possibly be that big a self-righteous…==
The Pharisees said the same thing about Jesus, and Jesus told them the same thing I will tell you:
I haven’t lifted myself up, rather I have lifted God, through Christ, up.
I don’t speak of and for myself, rather of and for Him and what God tells me to speak. I speak what I hear Him speak, through His Word, and do what I see Him do.

==Mr. Incredible must be putting us on…nobody could possibly be that big a self-righteous, sanctimonious, narrow-minded idiot. ==
Romans 8:1 [KJV]

==I rest my case..==
What case?

We used to believe in Zeus, Hercules, Venus, and their kin. Very real, very true at one time. Belief is powerful. Everyone’s ideas about God and the devil are changing and will do so for a long time. One day we’ll look back on these beliefs that we’ve created about God and a devil and call them our “Christian mythology.”

RE: “daily” (COMMENT #10 from the top):
God does not exist and neither does Satan.
Just because one believes this does not make their existence any more real.
[See? Your logic works just as well in reverse... Actually, better.]

==God does not exist…==
For YOU, He doesn’t.
==… and neither does Satan.==
You think that just because you can say that Satan doesn’t exist that he doesn’t. Satan likes that. He gets to do his work without resistance.
==Just because one believes this does not make their existence any more real. ==
That’s true. The fact is that we believe it CUZ is true.

Is it irony that Mr. Incredible picked his username so well?
Incredible:
“So implausible as to elicit disbelief”
He truly IS.

==Is it irony that Mr. Incredible picked his username so well?
Incredible:
“So implausible as to elicit disbelief”==
Or “extraordinary; astonishing”

This is my comment:
There are an estimated 6.4 billion people on the planet with 6.4 billion separate beliefs, perceptions, experiences and interpretations.==
This is Mr. incredibles comment”
“The Devil is so pleased, too”.
So Mr incredible-How do you know he(Satan) is pleased? Do you know this 1st, 2nd, or third person account? This is a belief once again. You do not know. :)

==So if believing in Satan is what you chose that is yoru choice.==
We don’t believe IN Satan. That is, we don’t trust in Satan.
[We don't give him authority, license, to act. Adam and Eve gave him permission to act. Having been born again, with the Power of God -- that is, the Word -- I took that permission back.]
We know THAT he exists.
My Reponse to Mr. Incredible: Once again you cannot Know what you have not experienced. you believe that satan exists beacuse the bible said so. you reference stories from the bible above. that is circular reasoning. Show me some scientific or even a subjective person converstaion with this satan? you cant.

==My Reponse to Mr. Incredible: Once again you cannot Know what you have not experienced.==
And YOU can’t tell me what I’ve experienced.
== you believe that satan exists beacuse the bible said so.==
No, my experience says so. The Word of God tells me what I’ve experienced.
== you reference stories from the bible above. that is circular reasoning.==
What you call “circular reasoning” is actually your head spinning.
== Show me some scientific or even a subjective person converstaion with this satan? you cant.==
In Matthew 4:1-11, Jesus shows us how NOT to have a conversation with the Devil. That’s cuz the Devil lays traps in conversation. Conversations with the Devil are referred to, by the Word of God, as “filthy conversations.” There is a reason for that.
So, you won’t find any person who is born again conversing with the Devil. You will find references to Satan’s temptations, suggestions.
At the same time, the Devil comes to a person in a person’s own voice, in inner conversation, making the person think that it’s all his own thinking. If that thinking doesn’t align with the Word of God, it’s the Devil. This kind of “filthy conversation” the Devil finds the easiest in and with those who deny his existence; there’s nothing to stop him.

==/==There are an estimated 6.4 billion people on the planet with 6.4 billion separate beliefs, perceptions, experiences and interpretations.==
This is Mr. incredibles comment”
“The Devil is so pleased, too”.
So Mr incredible-How do you know he(Satan) is pleased? ==
In the Garden, the Devil gave Eve his first, revised version of the Word of God. He’s been distributing revised versions ever since.
The Devil is the father of lies and of confusion. Therefore, the more separate beliefs, perceptions, experiences and interpretations, the better he likes it. That’s cuz he wants to take people away from the Word of God, not draw them to Him. The best way to do that is to make them believe that there are many ways to the Father, not just One. So, he is pleased that his lies and confusions have worked.

== Have you ever been to an Art Gallery? There is objective beauty…==
Do you suppose that each person on Earth will agree with you? If you find at least one person who disagrees with you, then you cannot say that there IS “beauty” in that art gallery because, if there were, that person would be able to see it, too.
No, what you are glorying in is your own interpretation. You’re groovin’ on the fumes of your own interpretation of “beauty” and saying that “beauty” IS there, in front of your eyes and not in back of your eyes.

Now im glad I got you to see that you can’t use circular reasoning to prove that Satan exists. You say that you have experienced the being Satan first hand. Please explain your subjective experience with Satan. The world wants to know. Be honest :)

==/==There are an estimated 6.4 billion people on the planet with 6.4 billion separate beliefs, perceptions, experiences and interpretations.==
This is Mr. incredibles comment”
“The Devil is so pleased, too”.
So Mr incredible-How do you know he(Satan) is pleased? Do you know this 1st, 2nd, or third person account? This is a belief once again. You do not know.==
Yes, I DO know. That’s cuz, first of all, I trust God Who tells me. Second of all, Satan wants to defeat God. So, anything he can do to that end pleases him. Just like I know it pleases you to think that you are defeating me.
My comment: So God told you? How did GOD tell you? by phone, email, the bible or in person? You are referencing the Bible for this answer and onece again you do you do noty know- you merely beleive.

==My Reponse to Mr. Incredible: Once again you cannot Know what you have not experienced.==
And YOU can’t tell me what I’ve experienced.
== you believe that satan exists beacuse the bible said so.==
No, my experience says so. The Word of God tells me what I’ve experienced.
== you reference stories from the bible above. that is circular reasoning.==
What you call “circular reasoning” is actually your head spinning.
== Show me some scientific or even a subjective person converstaion with this satan? you cant.==
In Matthew 4:1-11, Jesus shows us how NOT to have a conversation with the Devil. That’s cuz the Devil lays traps in conversation. Conversations with the Devil are referred to, by the Word of God, as “filthy conversations.” There is a reason for that.
So, you won’t find any person who is born again conversing with the Devil. You will find references to Satan’s temptations, suggestions.
At the same time, the Devil comes to a person in a person’s own voice, in inner conversation, making the person think that it’s all his own thinking. If that thinking doesn’t align with the Word of God, it’s the Devil. This kind of “filthy conversation” the Devil finds the easiest in and with those who deny his existence; there’s nothing to stop him.
MY RESPONSE: You said that Satan was pleased with this. How do you know? Once gain your interpretation, assumption on what please the mythilogical idea of Satan. You (Mr. incredible said the “At the same time, the Devil comes to a person in a person’s own voice, in inner conversation, making the person think that it’s all his own thinking.” Okay so whos to say that Satan isnt doing that to you?

Mr. Incredible. the bottom line is the Word Satan is a word that creates a subjective idea in your mind. Its just an idea. Give me the proof subjective or objectinve that Satan is a living sentient being. You cant. This debate is moot.

My only sin here is my spelling. Please forgive me! I was typing too fast. lol

Let me clarify my position. If you had a spiritual encounter or experience of Satan or a family member who passed away. Its not my call to say to anyone that they didit have that experience or try to define it for them. That is your subjective experience and I honor that. I can’t say that experience was not true for another. I honor everyone’s diverse internal subjective experience. So I have to take someone elses beliefs or experiences to be my own? NO Can I alow others to own their subjective experience and beliefs? YES

==Now im glad I got you to see that you can’t use circular reasoning to prove that Satan exists.==
I didn’t say I can’t. I don’t.
== You say that you have experienced the being Satan first hand.==
Yes.
== Please explain your subjective experience with Satan.==
I already have. The Word of God explains it exactly as it is.
== The world wants to know.==
No, it doesn’t. That’s the point.
== Be honest ==
I have been.
==Oh and on the subject of beauty and love. Beauty and love are words with many meanings.==
I’ve been clear. Now you’re trying to fog things up.
==The individual give the word the meaning.==
Again, I’ve been clear.
== Life is what you make it.==
God gave you choice. He put before you blessing and curse. The Day of Accountability is here.
== Once agin my point in why words are so versatile with so many meanings.==
So what?
== Im sure If i googled Satan I would have counless christian arguing over what that world in scripture really meant.==
The Devil likes that confusion.
==So God told you?==
Just as He told me He would.
== How did GOD tell you? by phone, email, the bible or in person?==
In person, through the Word of God, just as He told me.
== You are referencing the Bible for this answer and onece again you do you do noty know- you merely beleive.==
God, through His Word, told me that I would know. It turned out exactly as He says. I believe cuz my experience matches what He says it would be.
==MY looking at art is my subjecting and objective experience and therefore my reality.==
But not REAL reality.
== What I experice, define or believe about the art is only mine.==
That’s what an insane person says.
== I dont have to get anyone to aree with me nor have need to. ==
If you want somebody to believe you, you do.
== Just like religion. No two Christians even in the same denomination has the exact same interpetations.==
That’s of their interpretations are private interpretations. The Word of God says that we are to guard against this. We are to let the Holy Spirit do the interpreting.
== Therefore religion is subjective to the interpreter.==
You have to believe that an honor to disregard God.
==You said that Satan was pleased with this.==
He is pleased with the confusion you display.
== How do you know?==
Satan is trying to defeat God. Anything he does is geared toward that mission. So, anything that is not aligned with the Word of God comes from Satan. Therefore, the confusion you display is authored by Satan. He must be pleased with this.
== Once gain your interpretation, assumption…==
My realization of fact.
==… on what please the mythilogical idea of Satan. ==
God says that Satan is real. My experience matches what He says.
== You (Mr. incredible said the “At the same time, the Devil comes to a person in a person’s own voice, in inner conversation, making the person think that it’s all his own thinking.” Okay so whos to say that Satan isnt doing that to you? ==
The Word of God. What I am saying aligns with the Word of God. Therefore, what I say is not from Satan cuz Satan cannot uplift God.==
==Your believe is strong in Satan.==
To “believe in” is to trust. I don’t trust Satan. I trust God because God has performed what He has promised.
== I have not a subjective or Objective experience of Satan.==
That cuz you refuse to believe that he exists. That’s the best environment, the most fertile ground, for his work. No resistance.
== So therefore He doesnot exsist in my personal reality or affects me. ==
Ahhh, just to wish it away and POOF!
==You cant prove that Satan exists. ==
I already have proved it. God has proved it. Satan, himself, has proved it.
== You are just explaining why you believe he exists.==
You asked for an explanation, and I explained.

==My only sin here is my spelling.==
So, YOU get to be the judge of your own self. How convenient.

I don’t judge myself. I fully love and accept myself.;-)

Let me go over what “The Bible Actually Says about “Satan”. I studied Hebrew and Greek in Seminary and researched this regarding “satan”. The Hebrew name Satan (pronounced sa-tan) actually means “adversary,” and most often in the Hebrew Bible it is prefaced by the direct object, meaning “the adversary” rather than a distinct personal name. Satan’s role grows more developed both in scope and magnitude through time, and, thus, in the earlier writings of the Hebrew Bible, Satan exists not so much as an individual character but as an adversarial position occupied by both humans and angels.
For example, the word satan is used for a human potential adversary in the Philistine army (1 Samuel 29:4), and two kings God raises to be Solomon’s adversaries (1 Kings 11:14, 23). An angel of the LORD is called satan when he blocks the path of Balaam (Numbers 22:22, 32). Satan becomes more developed as a character in later writings of the Hebrew Bible, though he only appears a few times. He at times causes humans to do bad things, as he incites King David to conduct a census (1 Chronicles 21:1).
Satan also acts as a heavenly prosecuting attorney, bringing charges against sinners before God’s heavenly court. For example, in Psalm 109:6 the author asks Satan to bring an enemy to trial. Also in Zechariah 3:1-2, Satan stands at the right hand of an angel to bring charges against the High Priest. Satan has a similar role in the opening chapter of Job, where he appears in the heavenly court with the sons of God to bring charges against Job.
In the New Testament, Satan plays a much larger role. Here Satan, also frequently called the Devil (from Greek diabolos, also meaning “adversary”) is a proper name for the one who opposes God. Satan is also identified in the New Testament with the deceitful serpent in Eden, as well as many other names including Belial, the evil one, the ruler of the demons, the enemy, the ruler of this world, and Beelzebul (Beelzebub, meaning “Lord of the flies,” is a pun on the name Beelzebul, meaning “Prince Baal”).
Many scholars attribute Satan’s development from an adversary to the archenemy of God to the influence of the Persian religion Zoroastrianism. This religion is a lot like Star Wars, in which two opposing forces, one good and the other evil, struggle for control of the universe. Yet, the New Testament preserves the Hebrew Bible’s notion of Satan as far inferior to God and needing to get God’s permission before “raising hell” on earth (see, for example, Luke 22:31). Following the biblical period, Medieval theologians reinterpreted passages such as Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, in which Babylonian and Phoenician kings are condemned for pride, as descriptions about Satan. In fact, the name Lucifer comes from a Latin translation of Isaiah 14:12, in which the Babylonian king is linked to a fallen Morning Star, called in Latin lucern ferre (“bearer of light”). I want to end my thesis to say that this is no way is proof that Satan exists. If anything it clarifies the meaning of the word “satan” and it explains the origins and use of the word. This is great research in to the biblical accounts of Satan but doesn’t prove anything. Mr. Incredible I know my stuff. You have to come with something stronger. Satan does not exist.

For you new people on the Blog. Mr. Incredible has yet to prove to me that Satan exists. I’m trying to help him with theological research, hellish near-death experiences, exorcisms, first hand accounts just to get him out of the starting gate to begin to make sense. ;)

Mr. Incredibles proof that Stan exists:
My realization of fact.
==… on what please the mythological idea of Satan. ==
God says that Satan is real. My experience matches what He says.
My response: Once again, God did not tell you. You believed what man wrote about his understanding of Satan. It is like God showed up and told you like George Burns in O GOD. I don’t think so. You say that your experience matches what “He” says. You once again use circular reasoning to justify your position that Satan exists. Well who wrote what GOD says and which book? When was it written? Who was the audience? Where was it found? How is it valid? You can’t answer those questions. You have homework to do. First you have to prove the documents you read are valid. Then tell me which translitteration from Aramai to Hebrew, to Greek to Latin, to German to the King James Version to the New International Version. Who is to say the writers in their mostly 3rd person account were accurate? To much room for error my friend. you cant get past the validity of the document that the word Satan is written on much less prove that Satan is a real being off that paper. You have provided no other evidence other than you belief in the documents.

If God cares nothing for things of the flesh, why would he feel the need to punish the eternal spirit for what the flesh has done? If I throw out a pair of old jeans that I care nothing about, I don’t feel the need to punish you if you dig them out of the trash and burn them. You may say that he punishes the spirit because you do not believe, but your thoughts and beliefs are simply by products of the brains (which is flesh) interpretation of this flesh driven life. When the brain dies all thoughts and beliefs die with it and all that is left is the life energy or spirit if you will. That sprit is neither good or bad, honest or dishonest it just is. The eternal spirit is simply the energy that fuels our lives and to punish it for what the brain or flesh has done is like punishing the gas of a car because the driver ran over someone.

Shaye:
== Your crutch is referring back to a book.==
Mr, Incredible
No, I don’t. However, my experience squares with the Word of God.
Shaye:
==I want proof… ==
Mr. Incredible
I gave it to you already.
==… and you cant give me any.==
None that you’ll believe, anyway.
Shaye
== I’m sorry man but I need more than you quoting scripture…==
Mr. Incredible
The Word of God is good enough for me. He knows more than I do.
Shaye
==… and your circular reasoning.==
It has nothing to do with what you say you believe is my circular reasoning. It has more to do with your head spinning.
(THIS IS A COP OUT BECAUSE HE KNOWS THIS IS WHAT HE IS DOING)
== Its not my head spinning its an actually term. ==
I argument is not circular reasoning. As I say, you see it is circular reasoning because your head is spinning.
==I don’t judge myself.==
Who does? You.
(YOU ANSWER FOR GOD SATAN, AND NOW ME?
== I fully love and accept myself.==
So does Charles Manson.
(SO DOES MY MOTHER AND FATHER)
==You gotta give us some supporting evidence. ==
You have precluded yourself from accepting my evidence. I can’t help that.
(YOU CAN HELP IT)
==This is getting boring.==
Translation: “This is boring because I can’t get Mr. Incredible to agree with me.”
(ONCE AGAIN YOUR SPEAK FOR GOD SATAN AND NOW ME)
==I know my stuff.==
So do I, Praise the Lord!
== You have to come with something stronger.==
You’ve precluded yourself from my evidence. It has nothing to do with me.
== Satan does not exist.==
Yes, he does.
(THE ONUS IS ON YOU TO PROVE THAT HE EXISTS AND YOUI HAVE NOT DONE THAT)
==For you new people on the Blog. Mr. Incredible has yet to prove to me that Satan exists.==
Notice the language there: “has yet to prove to me.” “To me.”
That’s code for, “I won’t accept anything he says because I’ve rejected the idea that Satan exists.”
== I’m trying to help him with theological research, hellish near-death experiences, exorcisms, first hand accounts just to get him out of the starting gate to begin to make sense.==
Translation: “Somebody help me get Mr. Incredible over here, to the dark side.”
(NO THAT MEANS YOU HAVE NO CIRCUMSTANTYIAL EVIDENCE OUTSIDE OF YOUR CIRCULAR REASONING)
==Mr. Incredibles proof that Stan exists:
My realization of fact.==
Again, you misrepresent what I wrote. My proof is more than that.
==Once again, God did not tell you.==
Satan told you that. Of course, it isn’t true. Got DID tell me.
(OKAY SO YOU ARE NOW RESORTING TO BELIEVING THAT SATAN TOLD ME TO SAY THAT. ARE YOU SERIOUS? IF YOU ARE THEN YOU MAY NEED SOME PSYCHOLICAL HELP. YOU NOT ONLY HEAR GODS AND SATSN THOUGHTS BUY YOU HEAR SATAN TALKING TO ME?
== You believed what man wrote about his understanding of Satan.==
I believe what they wrote in their hand because God told them and they experienced it for themselves. My experience tracks theirs.
(ONE AGAIN YOU WERE THERE WHEN GOD TOLD THEM? WHO WERE THE WRITERS-NAMES? WHAT YEAR WAS IT? PLEASE ANSWER)
==It is like God showed up and told you like George Burns in O GOD. I don’t think so.==
And YOU say you went to seminary??? And you didn’t learn that God speaks through His Word???
(I DEMOSTRATED SOME OF MY KNOLEDGE WITH SCRIPTURES REGARDING SATAN(READ ABOVE). SOMETHING YOU DID NOT DO)
== You say that your experience matches what “He” says. You once again use circular reasoning to justify your position that Satan exists.==
It’s not that I use circular reasoning as much as your head is spinning, and that’s why you see it as circular reasoning.
(NICE DEFENSE-SARCASM-NOT GOOD ENOUGH)
== Well who wrote what GOD says…==
Men took His dictation.
(WHO WERE THE WRITERS-NAMES? WHAT YEAR WAS IT? PLEASE ANSWER)
==… and which book?==
All of them.
DOES THAT INCLUDE THE BOOK OF REVELTIONS BEACUSE NOT ALL CHRISTINSA CONSIDER IT DOCTORINE LIKE THE LUTHERANS)?
== When was it written?==
Irrelevant. The Word of God is timeless. It’s as relevant now as it was then.
(YOU HAVE NOT DEMOSTRATED THAT YOU KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION. IT IS VERY RELEVANT)
== Who was the audience? ==
The lessons on Satan are relevant to Man.
(REFER BACK TO MY PREVIOUS BLOG)
== Where was it found?==
Irrelevant.
(REFER BACK TO MY PREVIOUS BLOG. SOME WOULD SAY THIS TO AVOID THE AUTHENTICITY DEBATE :)
== How is it valid?==
The Word of God provides lessons from God to Man on how to take advantage of His Offer of Reconciliation so that Men may be saved.
(THIS DOES NOT EXPLAIN HOW VALIDATION OF THE BIBLE)
== You can’t answer those questions.==
I did, even though they are foolish questions.
(YOU RESORT TO CALLING THEM FOOOLISH> MANY PEOPLE DO THIS BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW THE ANSEER OR THEY FEAR THE ANSER MIGHT DISRUPT THIER BELEIF SYSTEMS.
== You have homework to do.==
Done and done.
== First you have to prove the documents you read are valid.==
Again, you have precluded yourself from any such evidence.
(I AM WAITING ON THE EVIDENCE. START WITH THE HISTORY OF THE BIBLE AND LINK IT OT OUTSIDE HISTORY, ARCHEOLOGY, Etc.
== Then tell me which translitteration from Aramai to Hebrew, to Greek to Latin, to German to the King James Version to the New International Version.==
You’re confused.
IM CONFUSED? I JUST SHOWE YOU I KNOW THE DIFFERENT LANGUAGES AND PROGRESSION OF THE BIBLES TRANSLITTERATION.) ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE IN MY HEAD? I AM VERY CLEAR ON WHAT I AM COMMUNICATION. MY FRIEND YOU ANSWER IS NOT APPLICABLE.
== Who is to say the writers in their mostly 3rd person account were accurate?==
They either witnessed what was said and done, or talked to witnesses who were on scene and heard what was said and saw what was done.
ONCE AGAIN WHO IS THEY? WHAT WERE THEIR NAMES?
== To much room for error my friend. ==
The Word of God, regarding the spiritual journey, is without error.
REALLY CHECK THESE OUT:
CONTRADICION #1
2 Kings 8:26 says “Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign…
” 2 Chronicles 22:2 says “Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign…”
CONTRADICION #2
2 Samuel 6:23 says “Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death”
2 Samuel 21:8 says “But the king took…the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul”
CONTRADICTION #3
2 Samuel 8:3-4 says “David smote also Hadadezer…and took from him…seven hundred horsemen…”
1 Chronicles 18:3-4 says “David smote Hadarezer…and took from him…seven thousand horsemen…”
CONTRADITION #4
1 Kings 4:26 says “And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots…”
2 Chronicles 9:25 says “And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots…”
CONTRADICTION #5
2 Kings 25:8 says “And in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month…Nebuzaradan…came…unto Jerusalem”
Jeremiah 52:12 says “…in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month…came Nebuzaradan…into Jerusalem”
CONTRADICTION #6
1 Samuel 31:4-6 says “…Saul took a sword and fell upon it. And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead and…died with him. So Saul died…”
2 Samuel 21:12 says “…the Philistines had slain Saul in Gilboa.”
CONTRADICTION # 7
Gen 2:17 says “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eastest thereof thou shalt surely die
Gen 5:5 says “And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.”
CONTRADICTION #8
Matt 1:16 says, “And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus…”
Luke 3:23 says “And Jesus…the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli”
CONTRADICTION #10
James 1:13 says “..for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.”
Gen 22:1 says “And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…”
CONTRADICTION #11
Gen 6:20 says “Of fowls after their kind and of cattle [etc.]…two of every sort shall come unto thee…”
Gen 7:2,3 says “Of every clean beast thou shall take to thee by sevens…Of fowls also of the air by sevens…”
CONTRADICTION #11
Gen 32:30 states “…for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”
John 1:18 states, “No man hath seen God at any time…”
== you cant get past the validity of the document that the word Satan is written on much less prove that Satan is a real being off that paper.==
Satan is real.
== You have provided no other evidence other than you belief in the documents. ==
I’ve said it a bazillion times already, that what the Word of God says tracks my experience, and vice versa. God knows what He’s talking about.
ONCE GAIN HOW DID YOU KNWO THAT GOD SAID THESE THINGS? WHERE YOU THERE WHEN MAN WROTE THIS?
I am well intentioned that I really want you to examine your beliefs.

==I rest my case..==
What case?
Ask and ye shall receive…first let me define a few of the terms, including my own, that have been used to describe you.
Self-righteous…sure of the moral superiority of personal beliefs and actions, usually to an irritating degree.
Sanctimonious…making an exaggerated show of holiness or moral superiority
Bigot…somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views.
Arrogant…feeling or showing self-importance and contempt or disregard for others.
Narrow-minded…having or showing a limited and often prejudiced or intolerant outlook.
Let me preface what I am about to say with a few words. I believe that everyone has the right to believe whatever they want so long as it does not hurt others or intrude upon the rights of others. Therefore every religion has a right to believe or not believe in the god of their choice. The majority of most religious people have a deep faith in what they believe, and yet are tolerant to others’ beliefs even when they do not understand them. Unfortunately there are fanatic fundamentalists like you that believe they have cornered the market in truth, and have no tolerance for the beliefs of others. You demonstrated this with the following statement.
==If the promise of Heaven and or the fear of Hell are your only motivation for being a good person…==
“Define “good person”? What is “good” enough?”
==… then nothing you do is ever simply to glorify God but to selfishly gain some eternal reward.==
“That’s the Muslim way, not the Christ way. “
(Your words…let’s see…that statement alone covers self-righteous, sanctimonious, bigot, arrogant, and narrow-minded) You say you speak the word of Christ….is Christ this intolerant of others, or does he show love to everyone even when he is not loved by them? Doesn’t sound very tolerant or Christian to me…and as a ‘prebutal’…a term and strategy you used in one of your arguments, allow me to quote you again…
“I don’t speak of and for myself, rather of and for Him and what God tells me to speak. I speak what I hear Him speak, through His Word, and do what I see Him do.”
Another one of your statements…
==we aren’t better than any other animal…==
“You must be one-a those homosexuals who look to the animals for sex tips.”
(Your words…I doubt seriously whether Christ would have made such an obscene and crass comment…but…and I quote—
-“ I’m not making the argument that Satan exists just cuz the Word of God tells me so. I have first-hand knowledge of the attacks of the Devil, and I compare this to what the Word of God says about the Devil’s devices. The Word of God knows what He’s talking about.” So tell me, was that comment one of your examples of having first-hand knowledge of the attacks of the Devil, or is God really that crude? And is being homo-phobic one of your more tolerant traits?
I do not profess to be perfect…far from it, but I try to understand or at least be tolerant of other people’s choices regarding religion and sexual orientation. The only thing that I am totally intolerant to is narrow-minded bigoted people like you.
You sir, are the epitome of what is wrong with religion today. It is not religion itself, but the fanatical fringe elements like you that have warped and distorted the message of peace, love, and tolerance that mainstream religion focuses on.
You speak for no one but yourself! And if you think that I am going to hell, I’m sure you’ll be there to greet me…that would be my hell.

Y’think there’s NO Satan, no Devil?
“Ay, think so still — till experience change thy mind!” — Mephostophillis

==You said that the formulation of the Bible is “irrelavant*==
No, I didn’t.
The formulation of over 5600 manuscripts into the KJV, complete with accuracy in the upper 90 percentile, is not irrelevant.
==… (which man wrote each of the sixty six books…==
Irrelevant.
==… when it was written…==
Irrelevant.
==… the specific sudience of that day) of the Bible is irrelevant?==
Yes.
==… it seems you have no knowledge of this. ==
Translation: “You don’t have MY knowledge.”
== Well it is very relevant when determining its authenticity…==
That has already been done.
==… and most Christains make sure they know the history of their Holy Book.==
Except that we don’t have to go over and over and over it again and again and again and again.
==You have shared no information regarding these questions…==
I can’t do better than what has already been done a those who know more than I do.
==… and this may demostrated your lack of knowledge regarding these matters.==
I know the Word of God. I know to whom He is speaking at a given place in the Word of God, whether he is speaking to the Jews, or Jewish priests, or Man.
==The idea of Satan came from the documents of this book.==
No, it came from God Who reported to those who actually penned the Word of God, then to me through the Word of God.
== You also speak for God …==
Those who are born again represent God.
==… and for Satan (knowing their likes and dislikes)…==
We know God’s mission and His method.
We know Satan’s mission and his devices. He set this in motion in the Garden.
==This tells me your belief has psychologically affected you in some way. ==
Knowledge of God through Christ most certainly has. As Martha Stewart would say, “It’s a good thing.”
==Shaye ==… and your circular reasoning.==
“It has nothing to do with what you say you believe is my circular reasoning. It has more to do with your head spinning.”
(THIS IS A COP OUT BECAUSE HE KNOWS THIS IS WHAT HE IS DOING)==
I know I’m doing, and it ain’t circular reasoning.
==/==I don’t judge myself.==
“Who does? You.”
(YOU ANSWER FOR GOD SATAN, AND NOW ME?==
That’s funny, just above that, you think you speak for me.

==/== To much room for error my friend. ==
“The Word of God, regarding the spiritual journey, is without error.”
REALLY CHECK THESE OUT:
CONTRADICION #1
2 Kings 8:26 says “Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign…
” 2 Chronicles 22:2 says “Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign…” ==
Irrelevant to the spiritual journey.
==CONTRADICION #2
2 Samuel 6:23 says “Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death”
2 Samuel 21:8 says “But the king took…the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul” Q1
Irrelevant to the spiritual journey.
==CONTRADICTION #3
2 Samuel 8:3-4 says “David smote also Hadadezer…and took from him…seven hundred horsemen…”
1 Chronicles 18:3-4 says “David smote Hadarezer…and took from him…seven thousand horsemen…” ==
Irrelevant to the spiritual journey.
==CONTRADITION #4
1 Kings 4:26 says “And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots…”
2 Chronicles 9:25 says “And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots…” ==
Irrelevant to the spiritual journey.
==CONTRADICTION #5
2 Kings 25:8 says “And in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month…Nebuzaradan…came…unto Jerusalem”
Jeremiah 52:12 says “…in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month…came Nebuzaradan…into Jerusalem” ==
Irrelevant to the spiritual journey.
==CONTRADICTION #6
1 Samuel 31:4-6 says “…Saul took a sword and fell upon it. And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead and…died with him. So Saul died…”
2 Samuel 21:12 says “…the Philistines had slain Saul in Gilboa.” ==
Irrelevant to the spiritual journey
==CONTRADICTION # 7
Gen 2:17 says “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eastest thereof thou shalt surely die
Gen 5:5 says “And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.”
Yes, he died spiritually on the day he ate. Separation from God is death.
==CONTRADICTION #8
Matt 1:16 says, “And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus…”
Luke 3:23 says “And Jesus…the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli”
”…Joseph, son of Jacob, according to St. Matthew, was son-in-law of Heli, according to St. Luke.” — Matthew Clark’s Commentary on the Bible
Which was the son of Eli; meaning, not that Joseph was the son of Eli; for he was the son of Jacob, according to Mat_1:16, but Jesus was the son of Eli; and which must be understood, and carried through the whole genealogy, as thus; Jesus the son of Matthat, Jesus the son of Levi, Jesus the son of Melchi, &c. till you come to Jesus the son of Adam, and Jesus the Son of God; though it is true indeed that Joseph was the son of Eli, having married his daughter; Mary was the daughter of Eli: and so the Jews speak of one Mary, the daughter of Eli, by whom they seem to design the mother of our Lord: for they tell (b) us of one,
“that saw, מרים בת עלי, “Mary the daughter of Eli” in the shades, hanging by the fibres of her breasts; and there are that say, the gate, or, as elsewhere (c), the bar of the gate of hell is fixed to her ear.”
By the horrible malice, in the words, you may know who is meant: however, this we gain by it, that by their own confession, Mary is the daughter of Eli; which accords with this genealogy of the evangelist, who traces it from Mary, under her husband Joseph; though she is not mentioned, because of a rule with the Jews (d), that
“the family of the mother is not called a family.” — John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible
==CONTRADICTION #10
James 1:13 says “..for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.”
Gen 22:1 says “And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” ==
neither tempteth he any man; that is, to sin; he tempted Abraham, to try his faith, love, and obedience to him; he tempted the Israelites in the wilderness, to try them and humble them, and prove what was in their hearts; and he tempted Job, and tried his faith and patience; and so he tempts and tries all his righteous ones, by afflictions, more or less: but he never tempts or solicits them to sin; temptations to sin come from another quarter, as follows. — John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible
Neither tempteth he any man – That is, he places nothing before any human being with a view to induce him to do wrong. This is one of the most positive and unambiguous of all the declarations in the Bible, and one of the most important.
God does not place inducements before us with a view that we should sin, or in order to lead us into sin. None of his decrees, or his arrangements, or his desires, are based on that, but all have some other purpose and end. The real force of temptation is to be traced to some other source – to ourselves, and not to God. — Albert Barnes’ Notes on the Bible
In any case, you forgot James 1:14 –
(Jas 1:14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
That explains a lot that you wish hadn’t been explained.
==CONTRADICTION #11
Gen 6:20 says “Of fowls after their kind and of cattle [etc.]…two of every sort shall come unto thee…”
Gen 7:2,3 says “Of every clean beast thou shall take to thee by sevens…Of fowls also of the air by sevens…” ==
Irrelevant to the spiritual journey.
==CONTRADICTION #11
Gen 32:30 states “…for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” ==
Corrupt translation. The correct translation is
(Gen 32:20) And say ye moreover, Behold, thy servant Jacob is behind us. For he said, I will appease him with the present that goeth before me, and afterward I will see his face; peradventure he will accept of me.
Anywho…
In the Old Testament, in unrighteousness, no man COULD see the face of God.
==John 1:18 states, “No man hath seen God at any time…” ==
The same is true here. Except, now, the Righteous man sees God because he is begotten of God.
==/== you cant get past the validity of the document that the word Satan is written on much less prove that Satan is a real being off that paper.==
“Satan is real.”
== You have provided no other evidence other than you belief in the documents. ==
“I’ve said it a bazillion times already, that what the Word of God says tracks my experience, and vice versa. God knows what He’s talking about.”
ONCE GAIN HOW DID YOU KNWO THAT GOD SAID THESE THINGS?==
Cuz God has performed what He promised to perform. I’m witness to this.
== WHERE YOU THERE WHEN MAN WROTE THIS?==
No, but many, many, many, many, many, great, great, great, great, multitudes of men were, and they testify of the same things.
==I am well intentioned that I really want you to examine your beliefs.==
God has examined me, and I pass. 100%. I’m not subject to the examination of men.

thinks so still —-> think so still

By the way, what you say are “contradictions” in the Word of God are really only contradictions in your mind.

people tend to be too centered around themselves.
when looking at the word of God, you cannot adjust what you read to your lifestyle..you must adjust your lifestyle to what you read.
may God bless all of you.
it irritates me how easily Satan tricks people..
he may be winning now, but thank God i already know God has the victory..
can’t wait til the end!

Mr. Incredible
You who claim the Bible as the cornerstone of your faith, the instruction manual that you would impose on you and me and everyone else — YOU CAN’T READ IT. Reading a translation isn’t the same thing. Not even close. With the Bible, you’ve got speeches that Jesus made to crowds of people in a long-dead vernacular Hebrew called Aramaic, written down years later in classical Greek with varying degrees of competence (Luke’s Greek is elegant; Mark’s is wretched), then translated into English sometime between 1600 and now (depending on which English version you carry).

Mr. Incredible
As you already know Biblical writings were first written in Aramaic. Hebrew is a later dialect of Aramaic. The first five books of the Bible, the Pentateuch or Torah, were not written down until the time of the Babylonian Captivity, 500-600 B.C. and they were written in Aramaic, later translated to Hebrew. Moses was also NOT the author of them, he was already dead by the time they were written down. In the 3rd century B.C. the scriptures were translated into Greek because the Alexandrian Jews could not understand Aramaic. When this was done, many of the meanings of the idioms were lost.
Idioms are a problem for the student of any foreign language. We have a lot of idioms in English that give foreign students trouble. Ones like “He’s in a pickle” or “He’s in a jam” or other such phrases whose meanings are not literal. Aramaic, like most languages, has many idioms. When the translation was made from Aramaic to Greek, those who spoke Greek did not understand the idioms and their meanings were lost or misinterpreted.
In James 1:4, it says “But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.”
(In this verse, patience is given a personality. It is referred to as a she. Now no one would believe that this verse in any way is implying that patience is an actual person, divine or otherwise. It is just a figure of speech, giving personality to a concept or set of ideas).
Another example is Proverbs 1:23. “Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets.” (Here wisdom is given a personality, a female one, and it is even implied that she is given movement and a voice).
This tradition of giving personality to a concept or idea is often used in Eastern writing. You forget that Christianity and The Bible are EASTERN in origin and influence. Christians pride themselves with Christianity being “WESTERN”. You need to realize that Christianity is AN EASTERN RELIGION. The Western church has, in many instances, changed Christianity into something that does not even resemble the original.
Now, I have given the two examples above to show you how figures of speech can be used in a way that is not literal, and give personality to a concept. In the original Aramaic language, which the person Jesus spoke and understood, and which was commonly spoken at the time of Christ, the word Satan was considered a figure of speech, a personality that was given to a concept, the concept of evil intent or opposition. SATAN WAS NOT CONSIDERED TO BE A REAL BEING. For instance, Luke 10:18 in which Jesus says “I beheld Satan as lightening fall from heaven,” the Aramaic idioms would translate the concept of Satan falling from heaven as “evil destroyed.” The word Satan itself means “to slide, to mislead, to slip; to miss the mark.” In other words, Jesus was saying that his coming has destroyed the concept of sin and evil. The Aramaic interpretation for Satan is “crazy thinking”.

Awaiting your response Mr. Incredible:)

To elaborate further on my comment above.
“No original manuscripts exist. There is probably not one book which survives in anything like its original form. There are hundreds of differences between the oldest manuscripts of any one book. These differences indicate that numerous additions and alterations, some accidental and some purposeful, were made to the originals by various authors, editors, and copyists.
Many biblical authors are unknown. Where an author has been named, that name has sometimes been selected by pious believers rather than given by the author himself. The four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, are examples of books which did not carry the names of their actual authors. The present names were assigned long after these four books were written. And–in spite of what the Gospel authors say–biblical scholars are now almost unanimously agreed that none of the Gospel authors was either an actual disciple of Jesus or even an eyewitness to his ministry”.
Take a look at this historical list of dates and meetings where numreous men who have had their hands in creating the Bible. It is the governing body of the church (Much like the US Congress) passing laws and making decisions over hundreds of years. Who were these men? What were their interpretations that threw some books out and kept others?
Here is the timeline of manipulation by men:
AD 51-125: The New Testament books are written.
AD 140: Marcion, a businessman in Rome, taught that there were two Gods:
Yahweh, the cruel God of the Old Testament, and Abba, the kind father of the New Testament. Marcion eliminated the Old Testament as Scriptures and, since he was anti-Semitic, kept from the New Testament only 10 letters of Paul and 2/3 of Luke’s gospel (he deleted references to Jesus’s Jewishness). Marcion’s “New Testament”, the first to be compiled, forced the mainstream Church to decide on a core canon: the four Gospels and Letters of Paul.
AD 200: The periphery of the canon is not yet determined. According to one list, compiled at Rome c. AD 200 (the Muratorian Canon), the NT consists of the 4 gospels; Acts; 13 letters of Paul (Hebrews is not included); 3 of the 7 General Epistles (1-2 John and Jude); and also the Apocalypse of Peter.
AD 367: The earliest extant list of the books of the NT, in exactly the number and order in which we presently have them, is written by Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, in his Festal letter # 39 of 367 A.D..
382 –Council of Rome (whereby Pope Damasus started the ball rolling for the defining of a universal canon for all city-churches). Listed the New Testament books in their present number and order.
393 A.D. –the Council of Hippo, which began “arguing it out.” Canon proposed by Bishop Athanasius.
AD 397: The Council of Carthage, which refined the canon for the Western Church, sending it back to Pope Innocent for ratification. In the East, the canonical process was hampered by a number of schisms (esp. within the Church of Antioch). However, this changed by …
787 A.D. The Ecumenical Council of Nicaea II, which adopted the canon of Carthage. At this point, both the Latin West and the Greek / Byzantine East had the same canon. However, … The non-Greek, Monophysite and Nestorian Churches of the East (the Copts, the Ethiopians, the Syrians, the Armenians, the Syro-Malankars, the Chaldeans, and the Malabars) were still left out. But these Churches came together in agreement, in 1442A.D., in Florence.
AD 1442: At the Council of Florence, the entire Church recognized the 27 books. This council confirmed the Roman Catholic Canon of the Bible which Pope Damasus I had published a thousand years earlier. So, by 1439, all orthodox branches of the Church were legally bound to the same canon. This is 100 years before the Reformation.
AD 1536: In his translation of the Bible from Greek into German, Luther removed 4 N.T. books (Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation) and placed them in an appendix saying they were less than canonical.
AD 1546: At the Council of Trent, the Catholic Church reaffirmed once and for all the full list of 27 books. The council also confirmed the inclusion of the Deuterocanonical books which had been a part of the Bible canon since the early Church and was confirmed at the councils of 393 AD, 373, 787 and 1442 AD. At Trent Rome actually dogmatized the canon, making it more than a matter of canon law, which had been the case up to that point, closing it for good.
This bible has a long history of being manipilated and there is no way to prove its authenticity. This evidence demonstrates that the Bible cannot be the literal, complete, inerrant and perfect work of a perfect, all-powerful, and loving God. It also demonstrates that the Bible is not especially useful even as a guidebook. In addition, because the Bible reflects every important belief of traditional Christianity–the foundation of Christianity itself rests on shaky ground.

You who claim the Bible as the cornerstone of your faith, the instruction manual that you would impose on you and me and everyone else ..
I, Mr. I, say: we have no interest in imposing it on you, nor anyone else. The essence of biblical love is unselfish concern for the Salvation of others. All we want to do is give you people the Instrument of that Salvation.
– YOU CAN’T READ IT.
I, Mr. I, say: [BUZZER SOUND!] Wrong again!
Reading a translation isn’t the same thing.
I, Mr. I, say: It’s close enough.
With the Bible, you’ve got speeches that Jesus made to crowds of people in a long-dead vernacular Hebrew called Aramaic, written down years later in classical Greek with varying degrees of competence (Luke’s Greek is elegant; Mark’s is wretched), then translated into English sometime between 1600 and now (depending on which English version you carry).
I, Mr. I, say: Nevertheless, accuracy made it down to us.
You say that these contraditions are irrelevant?
I, Mr. I, say: Yes. Some of them are irrelevant to the spiritual journey.
Well if the Bible is “inerrant” word of God as you and many “Christian Fundamantalists” believe then there should be no errors (litteral contradictions).
I, Mr. I, say: There aren’t any contradictions in the Word of God that matter to the spiritual journey, nor any ones that haven’t been explained. We can’t help it that you reject the explanations.
So if there are litteral contradictions(errors) it is not the “litteral and inerrant” word of God.
I, Mr. I, say: Not every statement in the Word of God is a of God. For example, statements by the Devil are not statements by God.
Please explain why there are litteral contradictions(errors) below. One of the verses has to be right so that means that the other is wrong.
I, Mr. I, say: I’ve already explained them.
The TEXT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT HIM DYING SPIRITUALLY
Irrelevant. The text is about the spiritual journey. That God said that he would die the day he ate, and, then, he went on to live physically, is not a contradiction. He died — that is, he was separated from God. God explains this after he ate.
As you already know Biblical writings were first written in Aramaic. Hebrew is a later dialect of Aramaic. The first five books of the Bible, the Pentateuch or Torah, were not written down until the time of the Babylonian Captivity, 500-600 B.C. and they were written in Aramaic, later translated to Hebrew. Moses was also NOT the author of them, he was already dead by the time they were written down. In the 3rd century B.C. the scriptures were translated into Greek because the Alexandrian Jews could not understand Aramaic. When this was done, many of the meanings of the idioms were lost.
I, Mr. I, say: However, for example, The King James Version is in the upper 90s percentile accurate with Texas Receptus Greek. TR is in the upper 90s percentile accurate with over 5600 manuscripts. This is not the case with the Wescott-Hort Greek. The WH is corrupt, and so are the modern translations which are based on the WH Greek.
In James 1:4, it says “But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.”
(In this verse, patience is given a personality. It is referred to as a she. Now no one would believe that this verse in any way is implying that patience is an actual person, divine or otherwise. It is just a figure of speech, giving personality to a concept or set of ideas).
Another example is Proverbs 1:23. “Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets.” (Here wisdom is given a personality, a female one, and it is even implied that she is given movement and a voice).
I, Mr. I, say: So what? Just as they needed parable, they needed figures of speech that combined with their experiences in order to understand what was being said. Those who listen to Jesus told Him that what He was saying are “hard sayings.” So, in so many cases, He responded with parable so they could grasp His concepts.
You forget that Christianity and The Bible are EASTERN in origin and influence. Christians pride themselves with Christianity being “WESTERN”.
I, Mr. I, say: I care only whether Christianity is true. I find that it is. Great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great multitudes throughout the ages agree with me.
You need to realize that Christianity is AN EASTERN RELIGION.
I, Mr. I, say: I have no such need. That’s cuz it’s irrelevant.
The Western church has, in many instances, changed Christianity into something that does not even resemble the original.
I, Mr. I, say: Maybe God, through the ages, intended to clarify over time.
Now, I have given the two examples above to show you how figures of speech can be used in a way that is not literal…
I, Mr. I, say: Figures of speech, by definition, are not literal. However, the things to which they refer ARE literal. They are literally true. That’s cuz the connections between two dissimilar things, made linguistically, MUST be true. There must be a truth between them for them to work.
In the original Aramaic language, which the person Jesus spoke and understood, and which was commonly spoken at the time of Christ, the word Satan was considered a figure of speech…
I, Mr. I, say: Even so, however, the concept is true. A rose by any other name…
SATAN WAS NOT CONSIDERED TO BE A REAL BEING.
I, Mr. I, say: Jesus considered Satan to be a real being. Otherwise, He was talking to Himself in the wilderness, in Matthew 4:1-11. As a matter of fact, in a manner of speaking, He WAS talking to Himself cuz he did not engage in “filthy conversation” with the Devil. In response to the Devil, He recited Scripture in order to guide and guard His mind against the attacks of the Devil. He taught us.
For instance, Luke 10:18 in which Jesus says “I beheld Satan as lightening fall from heaven,” the Aramaic idioms would translate the concept of Satan falling from heaven as “evil destroyed.” The word Satan itself means “to slide, to mislead, to slip; to miss the mark.” In other words, Jesus was saying that his coming has destroyed the concept of sin and evil. The Aramaic interpretation for Satan is “crazy thinking”.
I, Mr. I, say: And, yet, those who spoke Aramaic, for instance, assigned figures for real things, like Satan.
The Old Testament is concerned with the Hebrew God, Yahweh, and purports to be a history of the early Israelites.
I, Mr. I, say: In the Old Testament, God is concealed.
The New Testament is the work of early Christians and reflects their beliefs about Jesus; it purports to be a history of what Jesus taught and did.
I, Mr. I, say: In the New Testament, God is revealed.
No original manuscripts exist.
Irrelevant. The King James Version is in the upper 90 percentiles accurate with Texas Receptus. Texas Receptus is in the upper 90 percentile accurate with over 5600 manuscripts. The Wescott-Hort Greek is corrupt. Modern versions are based on the WH Greek. They are corrupt through WH Greek misinterpretations and copyist mistakes.
There is probably not one book which survives in anything like its original form.
I, Mr. I, say: Irrelevant, as I explained.
There are hundreds of differences between the oldest manuscripts of any one book. These differences indicate that numerous additions and alterations, some accidental and some purposeful, were made to the originals by various authors, editors, and copyists.
I, Mr. I, say: That’s true for the WH Greek. It is nowhere near as true for the TR Greek.
The four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, are examples of books which did not carry the names of their actual authors.
I, Mr. I, say: Scoffer BS.
The present names were assigned long after these four books were written. And–in spite of what the Gospel authors say–biblical scholars…
I, Mr. I, say: Your cherry-picked “scholars”?
… are now almost unanimously agreed that none of the Gospel authors was either an actual disciple of Jesus or even an eyewitness to his ministry.
I, Mr. I, say: How about John, the Revelator?
Although some books of the Bible are traditionally attributed to a single author, many are actually the work of multiple authors. Genesis and John are two examples of books which reflect multiple authorship.
I, Mr. I, say: More scoffer BS.
Many biblical books have the earmarks of fiction.
I, Mr. I, say: PRIVATE INTERPRETATION ALERT — PRIVATE INTERPRETATION ALERT — PRIVATE INTERPRETATION ALERT
The Flood story is an example of this kind of adaptation. Its migration from the earliest known occurrence in Sumeria, around 1600 B.C., from place to place and eventually to the Bible, can be traced historically. Each time the story was used again, it was altered to speak of local gods and heroes.
I, Mr. I, say: Scoffer BS.
But is the Bible, nevertheless, the work of God?
I, Mr. I, say: Yes!
Is it a valid guidebook?
I, Mr. I, say: Yes!
How can we know?
I, Mr. I, say: Hebrews 4:2 [KJV]
If the Bible were really the work of a perfect, all-powerful, and loving God, one would reasonably expect it to be obviously superlative in every respect–accurate, clear, concise, and consistent throughout–as compared to anything that could possibly be conceived by human intellect alone.
I, Mr. I, say: He is!
Using a circular argument…
I, Mr. I, say: We aren’t engaged in so-called “circular argument.” It’s just that your head is spinning.
… they say that because the Bible is without error or inconsistency, it must be the work of God, and because it is the work of God, it must be without error or inconsistency.
I, Mr. I, say: Regarding the spiritual journey, He is without error and without inconsistency.
Notwithstanding the fundamentalist viewpoint, however, the Bible does contain a number of real problems. And some of these problems are absolutely fatal to its credibility.
I, Mr. I, say: The so-called “problems” you say you see are figments of your imagination. You have a darkened heart cuz-a those vain imaginations cuz you don’t thank God cuz you don’t glorify God.
Many passages relate God-ordained atrocities…
I, Mr. I, say: That’s the Old Testament and the God of wrath. Its what He was willing to do cuz-a the evil in the world. It’s not as though, however, that He didn’t warn anybody.
…; such passages are unworthy of the Christian God.
I, Mr. I, say: He is unworthy of YOU?? YOU put God on trial and convict Him?? He would like to know, just for future reference, if you take my meaning. He would like you to declare yourself on this, so there will be no mistake “later on.”
Some biblical precepts are both unreasonable and unlikely since they are in obvious disagreement with common sense…
I, Mr. I, say: So, you match wits with God?
… as well as the qualities of character which are attributed to God.
I, Mr. I, say: Not all the characters in the Word of God are Godly.
Some biblical statements are absurd in that they represent very primitive beliefs.
I, Mr. I, say: Not all of the statements in the Word of God are Godly. In some cases, God is reporting what others have said, so that He can make a point.
The believability of many biblical stories–stories that are crucial to Christianity–are discredited…
I, Mr. I, say: Discrediting dreamt up by YOU.
By numerous inconsistencies.
I, Mr. I, say: The inconsistencies are in your head.
The picture is further complicated by the many different and conflicting interpretations that are often given to a specific passage by sincere, well-intentioned believers.
I, Mr. I, say: The Devil is pleased that so many people believe so many different things. After all, the Devil is the father of confusion, not only lies.
While Biblicists are capable of offering some sort of explanation for nearly any biblical problem that can be uncovered…
I, Mr. I, say: I JUST GOOGLED THAT STATEMENT, AND I FOUND THAT STATEMENT TO BELONG TO SOMEBODY ELSE. THUS, YOU ARE PLAGIARIZING. YOU ARE NOT ATTRIBUTING SOMEBODY ELSE’S STATEMENTS TO THEM, RATHER POSTING THEM AS YOUR OWN.

I just also googled the statement in Shaye’s post, “Some biblical statements are absurd in that they represent very primitive beliefs.” It is, also, plagiarized.
Now, I didn’t discover this until late in replying to his long post with all the plagiarism. That is when I decided, just for kicks, to google the first statement, just to see what happens cuz, suddenly, reading his material — or, should I say, what he portrayed as his material — it sounded like an article, not a poster’s writing. Had I done this earlier, I would have pointed it out earlier, and wouldn’t have wasted my time. However, now that I come to think of it, it wasn’t really a waste of time because I did a pretty good job of answering the concerns he outlined in his plagiarism.

Very, very, very dishonest, Shaye, and it’s no surprise, then, that you couldn’t stand Christianity.
You can’t claim that it’s Christianity’s fault. The love of God, through Christ, is NOT in you, never was.

See you resort to attacking me and bringing the references That I used which are still words that have meaning which you cannot refute. I can provide those refereces if needed. So back to the point.

==You admit by you own opinon that it is not 100% accurate aka error free.==
I did nothing of the kind, plagiarist.
== its only 90% …==
100%.
== And that is debatable.==
It is not.
== Im sure Airline has planes designed 90% accurate manuals you would want to travel in that plane. I bet you would run to travel with your family on that one).==
Irrelevant. Non sequitur.
==(When you and other fundamentalists claim in that something is the ineerrant “Close enough doesn’t suffice. Close is only good enough in horse shoes).==
The language, itself, is close enough to the accuracy of the spiritual journey God intends.
==With the Bible, you’ve got speeches that Jesus made to crowds of people in a long-dead vernacular Hebrew called Aramaic, written down years later in classical Greek with varying degrees of competence (Luke’s Greek is elegant; Mark’s is wretched), then translated into English sometime between 1600 and now (depending on which English version you carry).==
Irrelevant. The ideas get across.
==(THESE CONTRADTIONS ARE RELAVENT TO PROVE THAT THE BIBLE HAS ERRORS)==
Any contradictions you say you find in the Word of God are really in your head.
==(YOU HAVE NOT EXPLAINED THE LITTERAL CONTRADITIONS OR ERRORS)==
I have, but you miss them cuz you have precluded yourself from receiving them.
==I, Mr. I, say: Not every statement in the Word of God is a of God. For example, statements by the Devil are not statements by God.
(THAT IS NOT WHAT WERE ARE TALKING ABOUT-WERE TALKING ABOUT THE BIBLE BEING ERROR FREE)==
It IS what we’re talking about. You can’t blame God for saying something that He didn’t say.
==(YOU MEANT TO SAY I READ IN THE 90% ACCURATE ACCORDING TO ME BIBILE THAT GOD SAID)==
You don’t get to say what I meant.
==See you resort to attacking me…==
YOU’RE responsible for your arguments.
==… and bringing the references That I used which are still words that have meaning which you cannot refute.==
Words have no meaning. People have meaning.
== I can provide those refereces if needed.==
More plagiarism?
==(Where does it say in the Bible specifically that that scripture is about the spiritual journey…==
The entire Word of God is about a spiritual journey. You can’t appreciate that concept by reading the Word of God as you do a newspaper. Reading the Word of God as a newspaper, or a textbook, rather than as He was intended, is a favorite technique of scoffers who are trying to defeat God and His Word. It’s not working.
==…-that is your interprestaion of that scripture)==
The Word of God is of no private interpretation. I take that seriously. It is a Holy Spirit interpretation. I take that seriously.

I, Mr. I, say: However, for example, The King James Version is in the upper 90s percentile accurate with Texas Receptus Greek. TR is in the upper 90s percentile accurate with over 5600 manuscripts. This is not the case with the Wescott-Hort Greek. The WH is corrupt, and so are the modern translations which are based on the WH Greek.
What does this mean? Exactly? Upper 90% that is not 100%. Logic

2 Kings 8:26 says “Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign…
” 2 Chronicles 22:2 says “Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign…” ==
If you take a look above then you will see the Age of Ahaziah 22 and in the second 42. There is twenty year difference in age. So Which one is it?

Mr. I’s Words:
Words have no meaning. People have meaning.
(So then words in your bible have no meaning. People have meaning.
I REST MY CASE YOU AND I ARE 100% in agreement:)

Play the message game with 5 different languages over 1000+ years :)

==(So then words in your bible have no meaning. People have meaning. ==
God has meaning. He means something specific by His Words.
So how does God have meaning? Specifically. How did he get the meaning? Did we give him the meaning. Since by your words People have meaning. Is that meaning what we attach to the word God? What does the word GOD mean to you?

==Play the message game with 5 different languages over 1000+ years ==
Human reasoning. Not God reasoning.
==I just want you to know im not an Athiest by the way. ==
What do YOU call it?
== I just disagree with a Fundamentalist Viewpoint of the Bible. ==
Oh, and you want a substitute YOUR viewpoint for it.
== I have been saved and baptised 3 times and redidicated my life to Christ. The baptisim is an outward sign of inward grace which I honestly believe in Jesus and the Creator aka GOD. ==
Why isn’t it, “God, a.k.a. Creator”? Interesting frame of mind your wording betrays.
Anyway, if all that is true, you wouldn’t be saying the things you’re saying. Death and life are in the power of the tongue. If you’re speaking death, that list of things cannot apply to you. You would, then, be a false teacher.
==Am I saved?==
If you’re speaking death, no.
==So how does God have meaning? Specifically.==
To whom?
== How did he get the meaning?==
He had it from the beginning.
== Did we give him the meaning.==
He gives us meaning.
== Since by your words People have meaning. Is that meaning what we attach to the word God?==
No. The Word of God has meaning all His own. It’s up to us to discover Him. If we are attacking our own meaning to Him, we are privately interpreting Him.
== What does the word GOD mean to you?==
He means what He means to all. It’s a matter of who receives Him, and who doesn’t. Those who receive Him receive an interpretation from the Holy Spirit that is different from those who do not receive Him who make up their own interpretation.

==I, Mr. I, say: However, for example, The King James Version is in the upper 90s percentile accurate with Texas Receptus Greek. TR is in the upper 90s percentile accurate with over 5600 manuscripts. This is not the case with the Wescott-Hort Greek. The WH is corrupt, and so are the modern translations which are based on the WH Greek.
What does this mean? Exactly? Upper 90% that is not 100%. Logic==
What it means is that the words in the Word of God are accurate enough to get across the concept of the spiritual journey. They are as accurate to the originals as they are going to get, and that’s pretty accurate. They don’t have to be 100%.
Okay so you are a fundamentalist that will admint there are some minor man made errors. That seems more real than the document being perfect gramatically and historically in every way. I will accept that. No argument here.
==(Okay then when is the Holy Spirit interpresting and your mind interpreting?==
When what I think and say align with the Word of God, it must have been the Holy Spirit. It can be nothing else.
When I privately interpret, the interpretation will wander from alignment with the Word of God. My mind will argue with me. I will entertain filthy conversations. That’s a sure way to get it wrong.
(So basically you thouths and actions have to kine with scripture litterally) Thoughts outside the bible are not of God)?
==There are thousands of Christian Denominations aka intepretations.==
The Devil likes it that way. Confusion. More chance for lies.
SO which denomination is the correct one?) Which one do you most closely align with)?
== Did the Holy Spirit interpret them differently. ==
The Holy Spirit cannot be telling one person one thing and telling me another.
(I agree)
==2 Kings 8:26 says “Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign…
” 2 Chronicles 22:2 says “Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign…” ==
If you take a look above then you will see the Age of Ahaziah 22 and in the second 42. There is twenty year difference in age. So Which one is it?==
It’s irrelevant to the spiritual journey.
(You are correct it has no real impact on my spiritual journey or yours-this issue-Agreed)
==(THIS IS A SPIRITUAL LIFE AND DEATH SITUATION LIKE AN INDIVIDUAL LIFE AND DEATH SITUATION WITH THE EXAMPLE ABOVE. WOULD YOU HAVE YOUR FAMILY RIDE THAT PLANE?)==
Non sequitur.
However, on the question of aviation, a worldly question, having nothing to do with the Word of God, I’ll say that I’m a pilot. And no small time one, at that.
Airplanes are not 100% 100% of the time. Pilots are not 100% 100% of the time. There are shortcuts, and nothing is 100% of the time according to the manual. Sticking to the manual and to the law 100% of the time would make flying impossible.
However, sticking to the Word of God, as in hand as He is, does NOT make life impossible. He makes life possible.
(Now are you personally able to follow the word of God 100% of the time)?
==(HOW DO YOU KNOW GOD INTENDS IT TO BE CLOSE ENOUGH?==
Cuz THAT’S the Message of the Word of God.
(Can you share that specific Scripture with me?)
==WERE YOU IN HIS MIND WHEN HE SET THAT INTENTION?==
He knew me before I was born.
(How do you “know” that he knew you before you were born. I feel a more accurate and honest statement would be “I believe based on what I have read that God knew me before I was born.:)
==(PLAY THE MESSAGE GAME WHERE MESSAGES GET PASSED AROUND AND IN THE ENED THE MESSAGE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT)==
You’re trying to give God human attributes. It doesn’t work that way.
(Im not talking about God. Im talking about the people who dictated “Gods” message, translitterated the words, chose which books to become cannon,from Moses time all the way from AD 51 to year 2009. It is the most grand message game ever played.

They can stumble—> make him stumble

Hey M. Incredible I respect that you have your beliefs.
John 3:15-18
The Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.”
Salvation in Christ is not temporary, it is eternal.
Sorry Mr. Incredible. I believe in Jesus and not in your interpretation of the bible. I am Saved. Salvation in Christ is not temporary, it is eternal.

I ask everyone to ask themselves. So does your life match up with your words? Live what you believe or you will be a fraud within yourself.

Mr. Incredible. I thank you for being a good debater with me. You have helped me grow in that area. You have fine tuned my skills and opned up some theological questions for me to investigate. I hope the exchange between you and I has increased your faith and understanding. I enjoyed this.

== Faith wihout deeds is dead.==
What kinda deeds?
Loving deeds
Define “love.”
“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always preserves.”
– 1 Corinthians 13:4-

Its simple like in Marital arts. Where head goes, the body goes. Keep your head focused on love(Love is patient, love is kind, do unto others, etc) and that focus block out any negative mind chatter or possible outside of your mind. This takes focus and discipline to create a spirutally positive mind patterns.

If we can focus our own thoughts then no external being ranging from your aggravating brother, to the woman at work who wants to get you fired, the ghost in your grandmas house, to the Satan that some people believe exists can make you do anything. You have to do the work! No one else but you can accept responsibility for yout life. So what if someone influences you. you experience influences all the time. At the end of the day it your choice and its your responsibility to create your life situation.

The ‘War in Heaven’ continues on Earth – YES absolutely, the battle rages on for your soul – every single minute of every single day. Have you ever asked yourself if we ‘evolved’ from apes why are there still apes? Instead of asking the typical question, reverse it: can you prove God does not exist? Didn’t think so. If you are on Earth it is only because you chose Jesus Christ/the freedom to choose vs. Lucifer/no choice during the War in Heaven – where you came from. Your time on Earth is but a moment in eternity. It is what you do with the gift of life given you on Earth that determines where you spend eternity… Ask: What do you have to lose by living a Godly life vs. what do you have to lose by ignoring Him?

The truth is no one in this dialogue proved or disprove that Satan (the singular being)exists. We cannot use circular reasoning that a religious text says he exists so there fore he exists. You can believe what you have read but that does not substantiate proof. The only way you can know something is through personal experience. Now some want to blame Satan as the reason why they lost their job, cheated on their wife, or for their Bipolar disorder. That is the an easy way to escape responsibility. No matter what influence that exists you have a choice and it your and yours only. I am not arrogant to say he exists or doesn’t exist. I have not experienced this being and it will take more than ink from me to know 100%. If you want to believe or not believe either way is fine with me and I honor your choice as a sentient human being.

==Its [sic] simple like in Marital arts. Where head goes, the body goes.==
In martial arts, basketball, football and hockey, you don’t lookit the head, rather the chest area cuz the direction of the chest is where the body is going.
== Keep your head focused on love(Love is patient, love is kind, do unto others, etc)…==
YOu say what “love” does, not what it is, biblically.
The way YOU describe it, “love” can be a worldly love, and worldly “love” ain’t what Christ is all about.

==What is you definition of love?==
My definition of “love,” in my unrighteous self, conforms to the world’s definition which changes from second to second and person to person; one never knows what it is in the world. The world’s definition, thankfully, is not God’s definition, though.
However, in my Righteous self — thanks to Christ! — the definition follows the biblical example: Unselfish concern for the Salvation of others. Thus, I follow His example.

==“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is the golden rule correct?==
How are we to do unto others, biblically? Preach and teach the Word of Salvation! I give them what they need for eternity cuz I want them to give me what I need for eternity. THAT is the love of God!
== The “golden rule can apply to each and every circumstance and situation.==
Depends. In the worldly sense, one who holds the Truth in unrighteousness can apply it to mean that he wants another to “do” to him what he wants to “do” to another.
The Righteous definition of the “rule” is something else again.
== Can the Holy Sprit give unique advice in those unique situations? ==
Whatever advice He gives must adhere to and align with the Word of God, and, since those who are born again must all be on the same page and have the same Message, the Holy Spirit cannot tell you one thing and me another, regarding the same issue.
==The “Holy Spirit” can give advice depending on the context of the situation. ==
However, if we are in the same situation, His advice must be the same in the Word of God cuz He cannot and will not change, even from one person to the next, even from one second to the next.
==So a good way to tell if you are following the more spiritual path…==
Is there a “path” other than Christ???
==… is to be mindful in situations and apply the golden rule based on the definition of love above.==
Oh, you mean, like, your worldly definition.
==… being more aware of our own thinking…==
Rather than God’s??
==… and external circumstances and applying this spiritual love.==
Your definition again.
== Since our beliefs affect our thoughts, our thoughts affect your emotions, and our emotions affect our behavior.==
Not true.
Our words make up our thoughts and our thoughts make up our beliefs. Except that the born again individual incorporates God’s Thoughts, and God says Satan exists. I believe Him cuz God cannot lie AND I am persuaded by His performance of His Promise. He has proved by performance, by work. His work is a work of love, faith, Grace and Truth.
== And its our behavior that is the end result of “missing the mark” in relation to the definition of love above.==
The worldly definition.
== So we will in essence create a natural spiritual defense…==
Based on the worldly definition of “love.”
==… against negative (non loving) personal thinking, other human , social, cultural, political, and religious influences.==
Nice way to talk yourself into jusitfying anything you want, like believing that Satan doesn’t exist.
== Now if our “Spiritual Star Trek shields or “helmet” are up then the extra outside being Satan cannot break through the “helmet” and affect our thoughts?==
What are those “shields”? What is that “helmet”?
== If the being Satan can’t do that then belief that he is exists is not necessarily needed…==
God says that Satan exists and attacks all the time, just as he is trying to do here; but the prince of this world has nothing in me.
==… because we already have the natural piritual defense up. Correct?==
No. The unrighteous have no such defense against the Devil.

MY COMMENTS WILL BE IN ( )
==/== Faith wihout deeds is dead.==
“What kinda deeds?”
Loving deeds
“Define ‘love.’”
‘Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always preserves.’
– 1 Corinthians 13:4-==
You tell us what “love” does, not what it is, biblical.
( WELL SINCE WE ARE HUMAN WE LIKE TO HAVE HUMAN EXAMPLES. WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF LOVE MR INCREDIBLE)?
Posted by: Mr. Incredible | Apr 13, 2009 3:43:19 PM
==Its [sic] simple like in Marital arts. Where head goes, the body goes.==
In martial arts, basketball, football and hockey, you don’t lookit the head, rather the chest area cuz the direction of the chest is where the body is going.
(OK OBVIOUSLY IM TALKING ABOUT GRABBING THE HEAD NOT STARING AT IT. YOU ARE MISTAKEN AGAIN LOL)
== Keep your head focused on love(Love is patient, love is kind, do unto others, etc)…==
YOu say what “love” does, not what it is, biblically.
(WHAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION OF WHAT YOU READ IN THE BIBLE AND ITS DEFINITION & WHICH VERSION)
The way YOU describe it, “love” can be a worldly love, and worldly “love” ain’t what Christ is all about.
I USED IT RIGHT FROM THE BIBLE. I’M SURE YOU HAVE HEARD OF IT) LOL
Posted by: Mr. Incredible | Apr 13, 2009 3:49:00 PM
==I am not arrogant to say he exists or doesn’t exist.==
It’s not arrogant to believe God when He says the Devil — Satan — exists. Unless, of course, you say that God is arrogant.
ONCE AGAIN WE ALL KNOW THAT GOD READY DIDN’T SAY THIS TO YOU LIKE GEORGE BURNS DID IN OH GOD. YOU READ WORDS AND BELIEVED THEM FROM THE BIBLE. DO YOU EVER QUESTION ANYTHING YOU READ SO WHY IS THE BIBLE SPECIAL? BECAUSE IT SAID IT WAS “GOD BREATHED” LOL YOUR CIRCULAR REASONING AND YOUR HEAD IS SPINNING LOL YOU SHOW YOUR ARRNGANCE BY SPEAKING ABOUT THINGS YOU “KNOW” NOTHING ABOUT.
== I have not experienced this being…==
Yes, you have. You’re just not conscious of it. That you are unconscious doesn’t mean that he doesn’t exist.
(HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED? I HAVE NOT COMMUNICATE ALL OF MY LIFE EXPERIENCE. HAVE YOU BEEN IN MY MIND BODY AND SPIRIT. I HOPE NOT. I WOULD HAVE TO CALL 911) LOL SO PLEASE REFRAIN FROM SAYING I AM NOT CONSCIOUS OF IT. ONCE AGAIN TALKING ABOUT THINGS YOU DO NOT KNOW –THANK YOU)
==… and it will take more than ink from me to know 100%.==
God tells you 100% sure. You choose not to believe Him.
(IF GOD COMES AND TELLS ME PERSONALLY I WILL TAKE IT INTO CONSIDERATION. I WOULD NOT TAKE IT FROM YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT GOOD WITNESS FOR THAT KIND OF MESSAGE THAT IS MY EXPERIENCE):)
Can I know that Man’s heart is wicked? Yes, cuz God tells me so, and I believe Him cuz He knows.
(HOW DI HE TELL YOU AGAIN. I THOUGHT YOU READ THIS IN ONE OF THE MANY VERSIONS AND TRANSLITTERATIONS OF THE BIBILE. PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHICH VERSION (KJV, NIV, LIVING BIBILE)
Posted by: Mr. Incredible | Apr 13, 2009 3:52:48 PM
==What is you definition of love?==
My definition of “love,” in my unrighteous self, conforms to the world’s definition which changes from second to second and person to person; one never knows what it is in the world. The world’s definition, thankfully, is not God’s definition, though.
(WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF LOVE AGAIN? HOW DID YOU GET IT? PLEASE REFERENCE IT FOR ME AND THE REST OF THE WORLD)
However, in my Righteous self — thanks to Christ! — the definition follows the biblical example: Unselfish concern for the Salvation of others. Thus, I follow His example.
(DID YOU SHARE THIS UNSELFISH CONCERN WITH EVERYONE IN YOUR PATH TODAY)? AT WORK ON THE STREET? WITH EVERY FAMILY AND FRIEND?)
Posted by: Mr. Incredible | Apr 13, 2009 3:56:53 PM
==Where head goes, the body goes.==
As we learn in sport, the head fake has left many a player in the dust.
(UM YOU ARE STILL MISTAKEN WITH MY EXAMPLEWHEN SONE GRABS YOUR HEAD THE BODY FOLLOWS)
Posted by: Mr. Incredible | Apr 13, 2009 3:58:18 PM
==“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is the golden rule correct?==
How are we to do unto others, biblically? Preach and teach the Word of Salvation! I give them what they need for eternity cuz I want them to give me what I need for eternity. THAT is the love of God!
IT SAYS DO UNTO OTHERS AND YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU. I LOOKED and you have added “”"”Preach and teach the Word of Salvation! I give them what they need for eternity cuz I want them to give me what I need for eternity. THAT is the love of God!”"”"that to that verse. I’m sorry that your intertpretation and adding to the words written in the bibile. insnt there a verse that talks about that and you are DOING THAT! Mr. INCREDIBLE
== The “golden rule can apply to each and every circumstance and situation.==
Depends. In the worldly sense, one who holds the Truth in unrighteousness can apply it to mean that he wants another to “do” to him what he wants to “do” to another.
THERE IS NO DEPENDS THE GOLEN RULE APPLIES OR IT DOESN’T. YOU ARE ADDING YOUR OWN WORDS TO THE BIBILE AGAIN!
The Righteous definition of the “rule” is something else again.
== Can the Holy Sprit give unique advice in those unique situations? ==
Whatever advice He gives must adhere to and align with the Word of God, and, since those who are born again must all be on the same page and have the same Message, the Holy Spirit cannot tell you one thing and me another, regarding the same issue.
(NOW YOU ARE TELLING THE HOLY SPIRIT WHAT IT CAN AND CANNOT DO!!!!WOW YOU REALLY HAVE GONE TOO FAR WITH THAT ITS SUPPOSED TO BE FATHER SON AND HOLY SPIRIT NOT FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT AND MR INCREDIBLE. YOU GONE TOO FAR WITH YOUR PRIVATE INTEPRETATION.
==The “Holy Spirit” can give advice depending on the context of the situation. ==
However, if we are in the same situation, His advice must be the same in the Word of God cuz He cannot and will not change, even from one person to the next, even from one second to the next.
(NOW YOU ARE TELLING THE HOLY SPIRIT WHAT IT CAN AND CANNOT DO!!!!WOW YOU REALLY HAVE GONE TOO FAR WITH THAT ITS SUPPOSED TO BE FATHER SON AND HOLY SPIRIT NOT FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT AND MR INCREDIBLE. YOU GONE TOO FAR WITH YOUR PRIVATE INTEPRETATION.
==So a good way to tell if you are following the more spiritual path…==
Is there a “path” other than Christ???
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? THRRE ARE THOUSANDS OF DENIOMONATIONS THAT ARGUE OVER WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. WHAT IS YOUR DENOMINATION MR INCREDIBLE?
==… is to be mindful in situations and apply the golden rule based on the definition of love above.==
Oh, you mean, like, your worldly definition.
I USED THE BIBILE UNLIKE YOU ADDING WORDS AND PRIVATE INTERPRETATION D TELLING THE HOLY SPIRIT WHAT IT CAN AND CANNOT DO.
==… being more aware of our own thinking…==
Rather than God’s??
(OKAY SO NOW YOU CAN READ GOD MIND> YOU ARE POWERFUL)
==… and external circumstances and applying this spiritual love.==
Your definition again.
(I USED A REFERENCE FROM THE BIBLE YOU REFER TO SO MUCH)
== Since our beliefs affect our thoughts, our thoughts affect your emotions, and our emotions affect our behavior.==
Not true.
Our words make up our thoughts and our thoughts make up our beliefs. Except that the born again individual incorporates God’s Thoughts, and God says Satan exists. I believe Him cuz God cannot lie AND I am persuaded by His performance of His Promise. He has proved by performance, by work. His work is a work of love, faith, Grace and Truth.
(OBVIOUSLY IN ORDER TO SPEAK WE HAVE TO THINK IT FIRST SO YOU MISTAKEN IN YOUR ORDER. LOL ALL THE ABOVE IS YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION ONCE AGAIN.
== And its our behavior that is the end result of “missing the mark” in relation to the definition of love above.==
The worldly definition.
(SO WHAT IS THE BIBLES DEFINITION OF MISSION THE MARK? YOU HAVE GIVEN US NOTHING BUT YOUR OWN INTEPRATIONS, KNOWING GODS THOUGHTS, TELLING THE HOLY SPIIRT WHAT IT CAN AND CANNOT DO And EVEN KNOWING WHAT IN MY CONSCIOUSNESS. YOU ARE SOME KIND OF SUPER BEING???
== So we will in essence create a natural spiritual defense…==
Based on the worldly definition of “love.”
==… against negative (non loving) personal thinking, other human , social, cultural, political, and religious influences.==
Nice way to talk yourself into jusitfying anything you want, like believing that Satan doesn’t exist.
(I DONT HAVE TO TALK MYSEF INTO ANYTHING. ONCE AGAIN YOU THINK YOU KNOW AND YOU ASSUME THINGS IN MY HEAD. YOU KNOW HAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU ASSUME MR INCREDIBLE? :)
== Now if our “Spiritual Star Trek shields or “helmet” are up then the extra outside being Satan cannot break through the “helmet” and affect our thoughts?==
What are those “shields”? What is that “helmet”?
THE HELMET OF SALVATION have you read that onein YOUR BIBILE??? :)
== If the being Satan can’t do that then belief that he is exists is not necessarily needed…==
God says that Satan exists and attacks all the time, just as he is trying to do here; but the prince of this world has nothing in me.
(I WANT YOU TO SHOW ME WHERE THE BIBILE SAYS THAT. YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION IS RUNNING RAMPANT TONIGHT.
==… because we already have the natural Spiritual defense up. Correct?==
No. The unrighteous have no such defense against the Devil.
(HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THERE IS A DEVIL AND HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO IS UNRIGHTEOUS. PLEASE PROVIDE ANOTHER SCRIPTURE. YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION IS RUNNING RAMPANT AGAIN!
GOD BLESS YOU MR. INCREDIBLE

I just want to say I’m not yelling in caps. I am just separating our dialogue. My tone is very conversational and not confrontational. I am making points with emphasis. I really having these discuassion with you. I find it very good to debate our positions. God bless your brother.

Mr. Incredible you should really be concerned about your own personal relationship with God and not talking about things you only read and believe and do not know. God is bigger than your Bible and your interpretation of it. If you believe those are his words which are really the words of man that could only possibly be inspired by God and can’t be proven and is not perfect. Stop worshiping a book(The Bible) which the term is called Bibidolatry. An all powerful God doesn’t need your belief in the words for him to exist. Belive in God and stop this bibidolatry.

Mr. incredible:So well From our earlier conversations you admit that the Bible is only 90% accurate. So your extreme devotion to the Bible is to really just 90% of it? so Are you are you in agreement with the Protestant Evangelicals, the Liberal Christians(Seems you are closer to them based on what you have written) or the Catholic Chriatians? Also which denomination is correct?

Oh and if the bibile has errors. Who is to say that they got the Satan translitteration incorrect? just beacuse you ass a sentence from a later book added to the collection of books of the bibile that says “All scripure it God breathed” dent correct all the errors. Mr. Incredible what if that part of the Bible that mentions “Satan” is in cluded in you 10% that is not accurate accrding to you and many others?

==WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF LOVE MR INCREDIBLE)?==
God is not concerned with MY definition. MY definition would be an unrighteous definition. A worldly definition.
However, taking the line of scriptural thought, “love,” biblically, is unselfish concern for the Salvation of others, as much concern for others’ Salvation as one has for his own.
So, then, the ultimate expression of biblical “love” is to do what God did — that is, send the Word of God into the world.
==Posted by: Mr. Incredible | Apr 13, 2009 3:43:19 PM
==Its [sic] simple like in Marital arts. Where head goes, the body goes.==
In martial arts, basketball, football and hockey, you don’t lookit the head, rather the chest area cuz the direction of the chest is where the body is going.
(OK OBVIOUSLY IM TALKING ABOUT GRABBING THE HEAD NOT STARING AT IT. YOU ARE MISTAKEN AGAIN LOL)==
No, obviously I’m not.
==/== Keep your head focused on love(Love is patient, love is kind, do unto others, etc)…==
YOu say what “love” does, not what it is, biblically.
(WHAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION OF WHAT YOU READ IN THE BIBLE AND ITS DEFINITION & WHICH VERSION)==
Irrelevant. The line of scriptural thought, in the most accurate version we have, shows that the love of God is the Word of God.
==The way YOU describe it, “love” can be a worldly love, and worldly “love” ain’t what Christ is all about.
I USED IT RIGHT FROM THE BIBLE.==
No, you didn’t. The definition of “love” is not in the Word of God. You picked out a part of the Word of God that describes what biblical love does, not what it is.
==Posted by: Mr. Incredible | Apr 13, 2009 3:49:00 PM
==I am not arrogant to say he exists or doesn’t exist.==
It’s not arrogant to believe God when He says the Devil — Satan — exists. Unless, of course, you say that God is arrogant.
ONCE AGAIN WE ALL KNOW THAT GOD READY DIDN’T SAY THIS…==
Once again, we all know that God really did say that. Not only does He say that Satan exists, He talks to Satan.
==YOU READ WORDS AND BELIEVED THEM FROM THE BIBLE.==
That’s cuz I trust God.
== DO YOU EVER QUESTION ANYTHING YOU READ…==
I question what men, of their own power, write.
== SO WHY IS THE BIBLE SPECIAL?==
Cuz He is the Word of God.
==… BECAUSE IT SAID IT WAS “GOD BREATHED” ==
No, cuz He IS God-breathed.
==YOUR CIRCULAR REASONING AND YOUR HEAD IS SPINNING ==
It’s circular reasoning to you because YOUR head is spinning. My head spins around God.
==YOU SHOW YOUR ARRNGANCE BY SPEAKING ABOUT THINGS YOU “KNOW” NOTHING ABOUT.==
According to the world, that’s true. It’s not true, according to God. I’ll go with Him.
==/== I have not experienced this being…==
Yes, you have. You’re just not conscious of it. That you are unconscious doesn’t mean that he doesn’t exist.
(HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED?==
Cuz Satan touches everyone who is not protected by the Word of God. Those who are not protected and who deny that Satan exists, are most vulnerable to him. No resistance.
== I HAVE NOT COMMUNICATE ALL OF MY LIFE EXPERIENCE.==
Irrelevant.
== HAVE YOU BEEN IN MY MIND BODY AND SPIRIT.==
Irrelevant.
==… PLEASE REFRAIN FROM SAYING I AM NOT CONSCIOUS OF IT. ==
The truth is that you are not conscious of the effect of Satan on you. That’s clear from what you write.
==ONCE AGAIN TALKING ABOUT THINGS YOU DO NOT KNOW…==
According to the world, yes. Not according to God, though.
==/ ==… and it will take more than ink from me to know 100%.==
God tells you 100% sure. You choose not to believe Him.
(IF GOD COMES AND TELLS ME PERSONALLY I WILL TAKE IT INTO CONSIDERATION.==
And, still, you wouldn’t believe it.
In any case, He already did tell you. You reject it. You turn your back on Him. And YOU expect Him to come to you and reiterate what He has already said???
== I WOULD NOT TAKE IT FROM YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT GOOD WITNESS FOR THAT KIND OF MESSAGE THAT IS MY EXPERIENCE):)==
God tells us what is in men’s hearts. He says it is wickedness. I believe Him. Therefore, I know.
==Can I know that Man’s heart is wicked? Yes, cuz God tells me so, and I believe Him cuz He knows.
(HOW DI HE TELL YOU AGAIN.==
Through His Word, just as He promised.
== I THOUGHT YOU READ THIS IN ONE OF THE MANY VERSIONS AND TRANSLITTERATIONS OF THE BIBILE. PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHICH VERSION (KJV, NIV, LIVING BIBILE)==
The King James Version Which compares favorably with over 5600 manuscripts we have. The King James Version is the Word of God preserved in English.
==Posted by: Mr. Incredible | Apr 13, 2009 3:52:48 PM
==What is you definition of love?==
My definition of “love,” in my unrighteous self, conforms to the world’s definition which changes from second to second and person to person; one never knows what it is in the world. The world’s definition, thankfully, is not God’s definition, though.
(WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF LOVE AGAIN?==
I already told you above.
== HOW DID YOU GET IT? PLEASE REFERENCE IT FOR ME AND THE REST OF THE WORLD)==
The line of scriptural thought.
==However, in my Righteous self — thanks to Christ! — the definition follows the biblical example: Unselfish concern for the Salvation of others. Thus, I follow His example.
(DID YOU SHARE THIS UNSELFISH CONCERN WITH EVERYONE IN YOUR PATH TODAY)? AT WORK ON THE STREET? WITH EVERY FAMILY AND FRIEND?) ==
The Word of God says that we must do this, as we have occasion. I try to make sure every day that I have the occasion. I go out of my way to manipulate conversations, as a matter of fact.
==Posted by: Mr. Incredible | Apr 13, 2009 3:56:53 PM
==Where head goes, the body goes.==
As we learn in sport, the head fake has left many a player in the dust.
(UM YOU ARE STILL MISTAKEN WITH MY EXAMPLEWHEN SONE GRABS YOUR HEAD THE BODY FOLLOWS)==
No, I’m not mistaken. He said nothing about grabbing.
==Posted by: Mr. Incredible | Apr 13, 2009 3:58:18 PM
==“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is the golden rule correct?==
How are we to do unto others, biblically? Preach and teach the Word of Salvation! I give them what they need for eternity cuz I want them to give me what I need for eternity. THAT is the love of God!
IT SAYS DO UNTO OTHERS AND YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.==
He means what I say He means. What I say He means conforms to the line of scriptural thought.
==I LOOKED and you have added “”"”Preach and teach the Word of Salvation! I give them what they need for eternity cuz I want them to give me what I need for eternity. THAT is the love of God!”"”"that to that verse.==
I add nothing. What I said conforms to the line of scriptural thought.
== I’m sorry that your intertpretation and adding to the words written in the bibile.==
I add nothing. What I said conforms to the line of scriptural thought.
== insnt there a verse that talks about that and you are DOING THAT!==
No, I’m not.
==/== The “golden rule can apply to each and every circumstance and situation.==
Depends. In the worldly sense, one who holds the Truth in unrighteousness can apply it to mean that he wants another to “do” to him what he wants to “do” to another.
THERE IS NO DEPENDS THE GOLEN RULE APPLIES OR IT DOESN’T.==
Yes, there is a “depends.” You don’t distinguish between unrighteous and Righteous situations.
I am to give others the Word of God because I would have them give me the Word of God.
== YOU ARE ADDING YOUR OWN WORDS TO THE BIBILE AGAIN!==
Then, by your own standard, YOU must be adding to the Word of God, too.
==/== Can the Holy Sprit give unique advice in those unique situations? ==
Whatever advice He gives must adhere to and align with the Word of God, and, since those who are born again must all be on the same page and have the same Message, the Holy Spirit cannot tell you one thing and me another, regarding the same issue.
(NOW YOU ARE TELLING THE HOLY SPIRIT WHAT IT CAN AND CANNOT DO!!!!==
No, I’m recognizing what the Holy Spirit can do and reporting it to you. You don’t believe the report. That’s too bad.
== However, YOU GONE TOO FAR WITH YOUR PRIVATE INTEPRETATION.==
I don’t subscribe to private interpretation. I go with Holy Spirit interpretation, and the Holy Spirit can’t be telling you one thing and me another. All interpretation must align with the Word of God. Otherwise, it is not a Godly interpretation.
==/==So a good way to tell if you are following the more spiritual path…==
Is there a “path” other than Christ???
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?==
You don’t KNOW??
==THRRE ARE THOUSANDS OF DENIOMONATIONS…==
The Devil is pleased.
==… THAT ARGUE OVER WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. ==
The Devil is pleased with all the arguing.
== WHAT IS YOUR DENOMINATION MR INCREDIBLE?==
I am born again. That’s all that’s necessary.
==/==… is to be mindful in situations and apply the golden rule based on the definition of love above.==
Oh, you mean, like, your worldly definition.
I USED THE BIBILE …==
To try to defeat the Word of God, yes.
== UNLIKE YOU ADDING WORDS…==
I added nothing.
==… AND PRIVATE INTERPRETATION…==
I don’t privately interpret the Word of God. I let the Holy Spirit do the interpreting.
==… D TELLING THE HOLY SPIRIT WHAT IT CAN AND CANNOT DO. ==
I only report what the Holy Spirit does. You don’t receive it. So what? That you don’t receive it does not impact my Salvation.
==/==… being more aware of our own thinking…==
Rather than God’s??
(OKAY SO NOW YOU CAN READ GOD MIND> YOU ARE POWERFUL)==
The Word of God says that God declared to Man His thoughts. Got also said that His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. So, then, how can He threaten us with His wrath and eternal damnation if we can’t know what He says we must know??? It looks as though you haven’t thought this all the way through.
==/==… and external circumstances and applying this spiritual love.==
Your definition again.
(I USED A REFERENCE FROM THE BIBLE YOU REFER TO SO MUCH)==
You used a verse that describes what love does, not what it is, biblically.
==/== Since our beliefs affect our thoughts, our thoughts affect your emotions, and our emotions affect our behavior.==
Not true.
Our words make up our thoughts and our thoughts make up our beliefs. Except that the born again individual incorporates God’s Thoughts, and God says Satan exists. I believe Him cuz God cannot lie AND I am persuaded by His performance of His Promise. He has proved by performance, by work. His work is a work of love, faith, Grace and Truth.
(OBVIOUSLY IN ORDER TO SPEAK WE HAVE TO THINK IT FIRST==
We think in words. The word comes first.
== SO YOU MISTAKEN IN YOUR ORDER.==
No, I’m not.
==ALL THE ABOVE IS YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION ONCE AGAIN.==
No, it isn’t. It’s Holy Spirit interpretation. It’s just that you don’t receive it. That’s your choice. That you don’t receive it doesn’t impact my Salvation.
==/== And its our behavior that is the end result of “missing the mark” in relation to the definition of love above.==
The worldly definition.
(SO WHAT IS THE BIBLES DEFINITION OF MISSION THE MARK?==
Not staying on course with God.
== YOU HAVE GIVEN US NOTHING BUT YOUR OWN INTEPRATIONS… Q1
I’ve given Holy Spirit interpretation, not my own interpretation.
==… KNOWING GODS THOUGHTS…==
He tells us through His Word. If He didn’t tell us, how could He hold us responsible for knowing what He didn’t tell us???
==… TELLING THE HOLY SPIIRT WHAT IT CAN AND CANNOT DO…==
I never did that. I merely reported what the Word of God says the Holy Spirit can do. You don’t receive it. Just cuz you don’t receive it doesn’t impact my Salvation.
==… And EVEN KNOWING WHAT IN MY CONSCIOUSNESS. ==
If you write things that try to defeat the Word of God, that, in itself, tips me off. It should tipoff anyone who is born again.
==YOU ARE SOME KIND OF SUPER BEING??? ==
God makes me super in Christ! HALLELUJAH!
==/== So we will in essence create a natural spiritual defense…==
Based on the worldly definition of “love.”
==… against negative (non loving) personal thinking, other human , social, cultural, political, and religious influences.==
Nice way to talk yourself into jusitfying anything you want, like believing that Satan doesn’t exist.
(I DONT HAVE TO TALK MYSEF INTO ANYTHING.==
And, yet, you have, and you don’t even know it!
== ONCE AGAIN YOU THINK YOU KNOW…==
I can compare what you write with the Word of God, and I can see that the two of you are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
==… AND YOU ASSUME THINGS IN MY HEAD. ==
So, the things you write are not in your head???
== YOU KNOW HAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU ASSUME MR INCREDIBLE? :)==
I know what happens when I assume, and that’s why I am not assuming.
==/== Now if our “Spiritual Star Trek shields or “helmet” are up then the extra outside being Satan cannot break through the “helmet” and affect our thoughts?==
What are those “shields”? What is that “helmet”?
THE HELMET OF SALVATION have you read that onein YOUR BIBILE??? :)==
However, unless you wear that helmet, Satan can get through. Wearing the helmet means declaring the Word of God in speech.
==/== If the being Satan can’t do that then belief that he is exists is not necessarily needed…==
God says that Satan exists and attacks all the time, just as he is trying to do here; but the prince of this world has nothing in me.
(I WANT YOU TO SHOW ME WHERE THE BIBILE SAYS THAT. ==
You don’t know???
(1Pe 5:8) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
(Joh 14:30) …the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
== YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION IS RUNNING RAMPANT TONIGHT.==
I not engaged in private interpretation rather Holy Spirit interpretation.
==/==… because we already have the natural Spiritual defense up. Correct?==
No. The unrighteous have no such defense against the Devil.
(HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THERE IS A DEVIL…==
First, God says so. I trust Him.
Second, I have experienced the attacks that God has said would come. Of course, I do what Jesus did in the wilderness [Matthew 4:1-11] — that is, I give it to God, I resist the Devil and the Devil flees [James 4:7]. No problem.
== AND HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO IS UNRIGHTEOUS. ==
I compare what they say and do with what the word of God says. If they don’t align, the Word of God, of course, is Righteous, and they aren’t.
== PLEASE PROVIDE ANOTHER SCRIPTURE.==
I’m not going to republish the Word of God here. It’s available for you to find.
== YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION IS RUNNING RAMPANT AGAIN!==
The Devil says that to me all the time. Just remember Romans 8:1 KJV
==What doe righteous mean?==
It’s a gift of faith.
== I am already saved then==
Not necessarily. The Word of God says that you must CONTINUE in the faith.
== I am righteous…==
Not unless you CONTINUE in the faith. That means doing what Christ tells you to do.
==… and I have a defense against this Satan according to the bible an interpretation you provide.==
We’ll see on Judgment Day, won’t we.
== So I have nothing to worry about. ==
If you think you have nothing to worry about, feel free not to make your election sure.
== Now there are other who aren’t “saved” and I believe they have a defense against this “Satan” as well. :)==
Not scriptural. Remember Romans 1:18 KJV.
==… you should really be concerned about your own personal relationship with God… Q1
I can be concerned with mine and yours and everybody else’s. I can multitask, thanks to God, through Christ.
==… and not talking about things you only read and believe and do not know.==
God tells us to read and believe and know. That’s cuz He told us.
== God is bigger than your Bible…==
Moses: “He revealed his Word to my mind, and the Word was God.” — from the film, “The Ten Commandments”
==… and your interpretation of it.==
My interpretation, based on Holy Spirit interpretation, is correct.
== If you believe those are his words which are really the words of man…==
If you believe that, you wind saved. You have backslidden. You have not continued in the faith.
==… that could only possibly be inspired by God and can’t be proven and is not perfect.==
What the Word of God reports is 100% accurate.
== Stop worshiping a book…==
The physical book is the shadow of the Real Thing. The physical book tells us what the Real Thing is. I don’t worship the physical book. I worship the Real Thing.
==… which the term is called Bibidolatry. ==
Absurd.
== An all powerful God doesn’t need your belief in the words for him to exist.==
(Hos 4:6) My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge…
(Rom 10:17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(Heb 4:2) For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
So, yes, He needs for us to know, to understand and to comprehend His Word:
(Joh 8:32) And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
(Joh 1:17) For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
== Belive in God…==
I believe in God, through Christ.
==… and stop this bibidolatry.==
I don’t worship the physical book. I read the Word of God so that I can understand what God tells me.
==Mr. Incredible I will reference the definiltion from Wikipedia.==
Corrupt on its face. Written by men, not by God.
==… So well From our earlier conversations you admit that the Bible is only 90% accurate.==
No, I didn’t.
== So your extreme devotion to the Bible is to really just 90% of it? ==
My devotion is 100%.
==… so Are you are you in agreement with the Protestant Evangelicals, the Liberal Christians(Seems you are closer to them based on what you have written) or the Catholic Chriatians?==
I am in agreement with God [Amos 3:3].
== Also which denomination is correct?==
I’m not concerned with denominations. Neither is God.
==I can neither confrim nor deny that Satan exists. ==
So, you don’t trust what God says. We get it. So does He.
== All beliefs are your your choice…==
I choose, outta honesty with and love for God, to believe the Truth.
==Who is to say that the translators and Catholic meetings got the Satan translitteration correct?==
We can tell from the line of scriptural thought.
== Just because you add a sentence from a later written book and added to the collection of books at the Council of Nicea that says “All scripure it God breathed” doesnt correct all the errors.==
The error is in your own mind. You’re hallucinating.
== Mr. Incredible what if that part of the Bible that mentions “Satan” is in cluded in you 10% that say is not accurate according to you and many others?==
I never said that the Word of God is not accurate.

Sorry I left out a few numbers:
1,999,999,999 Christians. :)

Its all a matter of belief. I rest my case.

==Its [sic] all a matter of belief.==
Belief must be based on correct perception of things and situations.

JUST TO KEEP THE DIALOGUE GOING:
Thanks for your responses Mr. Incredible. Let’s further discuss your communication with the “Holy Spirit” and the only way for you to tell that the what the Holy Spirit is is that it lines up with the Bible.
Mr. I, say: However, for example, The King James Version is in the upper 90s percentile accurate with Texas Receptus Greek. TR is in the upper 90s percentile accurate with over 5600 manuscripts. This is not the case with the Wescott-Hort Greek. The WH is corrupt, and so are the modern translations which are based on the WH Greek.
Shaye: What does this mean? Exactly? Upper 90% that is not 100%. Logic==
Mr I: What it means is that the words in the Word of God are accurate enough to get across the concept of the spiritual journey. They are as accurate to the originals as they are going to get, and that’s pretty accurate. They don’t have to be 100%.
SHAYE: Okay so you are a fundamentalist that will admint there are some minor man made errors. That seems more real than the document being perfect gramatically and historically in every way. I will accept that. No argument here.
==(Okay then when is the Holy Spirit interpresting and your mind interpreting?==
When what I think and say align with the Word of God, it must have been the Holy Spirit. It can be nothing else.
SHAYE: So MR. I your documents(The Bible) you use as a reference for these “Interpretations” or thoughts you have from the Holy Spirit are not 100% accurate. How can you say that you know that the Holy Spirit is accurate when the document is not accurate.
And if ther are 2 billion different Christian who have divided themselves up into thousands of denominations and sects all claim that they hear from the Holy Spirit and their views are different from one another and probably yours. So how do you know yours is correct over the 1000s of other Christions interpretations from the Holy Spiirt that contradict yours?? The answer is obvious either you are right and ther is 1,999,999 other Christians wrong, or the Word is not what you beleive it is, or humans make errors in their reciving of these thoughts from the “Holy Spirit”. Over a billion errors. Im glad Im speaking to 1 in 2 billion (Mr. Incredible) :)

==Upper 90% that is not 100%. ==
The errors you say you think you find in the physical book are harmless when it comes to the spiritual Message Which is 100%.
For instance, where the book says that God said, “Let there be light,” it doesn’t matter that the Hebrew says He said, “Light be!” The spiritual Message is the same.
What DOES matter is when the modern versions change “virgin” to “maid.” God said “virgin.”
What matters is when, in modern versions, men take out half of Romans 8:1 when God said all of that verse, not half of it.
(ONCE AGAIN YOU SHOW EVIDENCE THAT THE BIBLE HAS ERRORS ADMIT THE BIBILE IS NOT 100% ACCRUATE)
==so you are a fundamentalist that will admint there are some minor man made errors.==
However, God made no errors in the Word.
ONCE AGAIN YOU ADMIT THE BIBILE IS NOT 100% ACCRUATE. You SAY GOD MADE NO ERRORS. HOW DO YOU THAT GOD DID ANYTHING? YOU DONT)
==your documents(The Bible)…==
(YOU BELIEVE THAT WHAT WAS TRANSLATED MADE BY KING JAMES IS GOD DOCUMENT)
God’s Document, not mine.
==… you use as a reference for these “Interpretations” or thoughts you have from the Holy Spirit are not 100% accurate.==
Yes, they are.
(THAT IS DEBATEABLE WITH OTHER CHRISTIANS)
== How can you say that you know that the Holy Spirit is accurate when the document is not accurate. ==
Cuz the Holy Spirit must align with the Word of God.
(SO YOU ARE SAYING THE YOU KNOW THAT THE HOLY SPIRT MUST ALING WITH AN INACCURATE KING JAMES BIBLE FROM YOUR OWN ADMISSION)
==And if ther are 2 billion different Christian who have divided themselves up into thousands of denominations and sects all claim that they hear from the Holy Spirit and their views are different from one another and probably yours.==
Then, we’ll all see on Judgment Day, won’t we.
(THATS ABOUT THE BEST ANSWER YOU HAVE GIVEN YET) LOL
== So how do you know yours is correct over the 1000s of other Christions interpretations from the Holy Spiirt that contradict yours??==
Revelation from God through His Word.
(YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR REVELATIONS ARE CORRECT OVER THE OTHER 2 BILLION CHRISTIANS-THAT IS ARROGANCE)
== The answer is obvious either you are right and ther is 1,999,999 other Christians wrong, or the Word is not what you beleive it is, or humans make errors in their reciving of these thoughts from the “Holy Spirit”.==
I AM correct.
(I UNDERSTAND YOU ARE TRYING TO HIND BEHIND THE “I AM” IN THE BIBILE(NICE TRY). HOW IS THE REVALATIONS FROM THE “I AM” aka GOD aka HOLY SPIRIT PROVEN MORE ACCURATE THAN THE OTHER 2 BILLION CHRISTION WHO READ “The Word” and worship GOD?
== Over a billion errors.==
Men make mistakes and they are mistaken.
(SO YOU ARE INERRANT? DO YOU MAKE MISTAKES?)
==1) The Bible has errors==
Not spiritual errors. God’s Message is 100% intact.
(THAT IS WHAT YOU BELIEVE)
==2) The Bibile was Translitterated from (Aramaic to Hebrew to Greek, to German to the Kings English) ==
Irrelevant. KJV is God’s Word, preserved in English, and He gets the Message across.
(IT IS RELEVANT BECAUSE IT SHOWS THE MEANINGS OF WORDS GET LOST IN TRANSLATION)
=3) The Bible was created at the Council OF Nicea(By Emperor Constantine).==
God created the Word and God created Man; but Man did not create God, nor His Word.
(THE COUNCIL OF NICEA IN ROME CREATED THE FIRST BIBLE. SO THE COUNCIL WAS GOD? SO GOD IN MANY HUMAN PERSONS NOW?)
==3) No one person has cornered the market on the (correct interpretation)with proof.==
That’s what the Devil says, too. Keeps that doubt going. That’s why God will save only a remnant, that only a few find the gate.
(NOW YOU ARE HAVING ILLUSORY CONCERSATIONS WITH THE DEVIL? THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR BELIEFS)
==4) People can worship “God” without any Bible.==
That’s basically what the Church of England said to the settlers.
(ITS TRUE YOU CAN WORSHIP WITHOUT A BIBLE)
Anywho…
Hebrews 4:2 tells you otherwise.
==5) Satan canno be proven to exist by mere belief in the document.==
That’s true, but we don’t bellieve in a mere document, rather in God, through the Person of the Word.
(BELIVE IN GOD THEN. THE BIBILE IS THE DOCUMENT WHICH HAS THE WORDS IN IT)
==Anyone can read a national Enquirer and they could have an article on Satan and people could say My experience matches up with the National Enquirer. That doen not make it a Holy Book or validate the existence of Satan.==
That’s true. However, The National Enquirer is men-made.
(THE BIBLE IS MAN MADE REMEBER THE COUNCIL OF NICEA AND EMPEROR CONSTANTINE)
==6) One can believe that the “Holy Spirit” told them something but not know for sure…==
Yes, they can. You are trying to sow doubt. It’s not working on me, though.
(IM NOT TRYING TO SOW DOUBT. I AM ASKING QUESTIONS AND YOU MY FIRND ANRE NOT BEYOND ASKING QUESTIONS)
==… beacuse the documents are not accurate…==
The Word of God is spiritually accurate by 100%.
(THE BIBILE IS NOT 100% ACCURATE. DO YOU HAVE SOME OTHER DOCUMENT THAT YOU WANT TO SHARE called the “Word of God” Please tell me that we are taking about the same KJV BiBLE-Which has errors)
==… and may have lost meanings through the translitteration process.==
The Word of God has lost meaning for YOU, thanks to the Devil.
(THR BIBILE IS A WONDWERFUL BOOK. I FIND MEANING IN IT. AND TO BLAME A DEVIL CANT GET YOU OUT OF THESE QUESTIONS)
==7)There are and estimated 2 billion Christins with thousands of denominations, use different bibiles, and not all of the same cannion. All claim that they have the correct interpretation by the Holy Spirit or the most accurate Bible or Theology.==
The Devil likes it that way.
(YOU CANT ANSWER THIS QUESTION WITHOUT BLAMING ONE OF THE CHARACTERS IN THE BIBLE-NOT A VERY GOOD ANSWER AND QUITE SAD)
==8) Mr. Incredible believes that the “Holy Spirit” talk to him…==
That’s the promise of God through Christ. So, it is not just some belief. It is a recognition of fact.
(SO YOUR BELIEFS ARE NOW FACTS. THEY ARE NOT FACTS THEY ARE YOUR BELIEFS)
==… and he can somehow interpret the same innacurate document used to back up his converstations with the “Holy Spirit”…==
The Word of God says that kinda conversation is “good conversation.”
(WELL YOU CANNT BE KINDA WRONG AND KINDA PREGNANT.)
==…and even alter the meanings of the same Bible that he has to use to justify his understandings from the “Holy Spirit”.==
I justify nothing. God does the justifying through His Word.
YOU DO THE JUSTIFYING BASED ON YOUR BEIF IN THE BIBILE)
== You then change the mensings of your reference guide.==
No, I recognize the meaning of the “reference guide.”
(YOU CHANGE THE MEANINGS TO FIT YOU OWN BELIEFS JUST LIKE ALL THER OTHER DENOMINATIONS. YOU ARE THE SAME)
== This is pretty funny-possibly insane. ==
Romans 8:1 KJV.
==Mr. incredible will prbably blame Satan for the other 2billion Christians who are confused…==
The DEvil is tghe author of confusion, yes.
(THIS IS THE MOST ARROGANT THING YOU AHVE SAID. IMPLYING THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND 2 billion people got it wrong. This is hilarous).
==… and he probably attacked the printer on the King James printing press who changed the words and meanings …==
Textus Receptus, regarding the New Testament, is 100% accurate spiritually when compared to ancient manuscripts cuz the copyists and printers were meticulous, as opposed to the Westcott-Hort Greek copyists who inserted comments and other meanings, etc. Modern versions of the Word are based on WH and, thus, corrupt.
(THAT DOENSNT MEAN ITS TRUE EVEN IF THEY GOT IT 92% Translated)
==…which caused the litteral and circumstantial errors in the current bible…==
There are no spiritual errors in the Word of God.
(SO NOW THERE ARE NO SPIRITUAL ERRORS PLEASE EXPLAIN THE DIFFERNECE BETWEEN THE LITTTERAL AND SPIRITUAL ERRORS)
==… and that Satan has attaced ever other Chritian who beleives differently from him.==
Satan attacks everybody. Those armed with the Word of God survive the attacks with distinction.
(THIS IS A BELIEF ONCE AGAIN)
== This could be a very unhealthy psycholgial condition.==
According to the world, of course, and you who are a worldling.
(ALL THE ABOVE MAKES MY POINT)

==And if ther are 2 billion different Christian who have divided themselves up into thousands of denominations and sects all claim that they hear from the Holy Spirit and their views are different from one another and probably yours.==
Then, we’ll all see on Judgment Day, won’t we.
== So how do you know yours is correct over the 1000s of other Christions interpretations from the Holy Spiirt that contradict yours??==
Revelation from God through His Word.
== The answer is obvious either you are right and ther is 1,999,999 other Christians wrong, or the Word is not what you beleive it is, or humans make errors in their reciving of these thoughts from the “Holy Spirit”.==
I AM correct.
== Over a billion errors.==
Men make mistakes and they are mistaken.

==/==Upper 90% that is not 100%. ==
The errors you say you think you find in the physical book are harmless when it comes to the spiritual Message Which is 100%.
For instance, where the book says that God said, “Let there be light,” it doesn’t matter that the Hebrew says He said, “Light be!” The spiritual Message is the same.
What DOES matter is when the modern versions change “virgin” to “maid.” God said “virgin.”
What matters is when, in modern versions, men take out half of Romans 8:1 when God said all of that verse, not half of it.
(ONCE AGAIN YOU SHOW EVIDENCE THAT THE BIBLE HAS ERRORS ADMIT THE BIBILE IS NOT 100% ACCRUATE) ==
Once again, no, I didn’t.
==/==so you are a fundamentalist that will admint there are some minor man made errors.==
However, God made no errors in the Word.
ONCE AGAIN YOU ADMIT THE BIBILE IS NOT 100% ACCRUATE.==
No, I don’t.
== You SAY GOD MADE NO ERRORS.==
I did not and doesn’t err, and it doesn’t have anything to do with whether I say so, or not. He doesn’t need my permission.
== HOW DO YOU THAT GOD DID ANYTHING?==
(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
== YOU DONT) ==
Yes, I do. YOU don’t.
==/==your documents(The Bible)…==
(YOU BELIEVE THAT WHAT WAS TRANSLATED MADE BY KING JAMES IS GOD DOCUMENT)==
The physical book is a shadow of the Real Thing.
==/==God’s Document, not mine.
==… you use as a reference for these “Interpretations” or thoughts you have from the Holy Spirit are not 100% accurate.==
Yes, they are.
(THAT IS DEBATEABLE WITH OTHER CHRISTIANS)==
And, as He says, few will find the gate.
==/== How can you say that you know that the Holy Spirit is accurate when the document is not accurate. ==
Cuz the Holy Spirit must align with the Word of God.
(SO YOU ARE SAYING THE YOU KNOW THAT THE HOLY SPIRT MUST ALING WITH AN INACCURATE KING JAMES BIBLE FROM YOUR OWN ADMISSION)==
Quit misrepresenting my argument. I said nothing of the kind.
==/==And if ther are 2 billion different Christian who have divided themselves up into thousands of denominations and sects all claim that they hear from the Holy Spirit and their views are different from one another and probably yours.==
Then, we’ll all see on Judgment Day, won’t we.
(THATS ABOUT THE BEST ANSWER YOU HAVE GIVEN YET) ==
I’m not interested in pleasing you. I don’t care whether you think my answers are good, or not.
==/== So how do you know yours is correct over the 1000s of other Christions interpretations from the Holy Spiirt that contradict yours??==
Revelation from God through His Word.
(YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR REVELATIONS ARE CORRECT OVER THE OTHER 2 BILLION CHRISTIANS-THAT IS ARROGANCE)==
That’s your human “reasoning.” The Pharisees thought Jesus was arrogant, too. I’m in Good Company. HALLELUJAH!
==/== The answer is obvious either you are right and ther is 1,999,999 other Christians wrong, or the Word is not what you beleive it is, or humans make errors in their reciving of these thoughts from the “Holy Spirit”.==
I AM correct.
(I UNDERSTAND YOU ARE TRYING TO HIND BEHIND THE “I AM” IN THE BIBILE(NICE TRY).==
God, through Christ, is my Protector.
== HOW IS THE REVALATIONS FROM THE “I AM” aka GOD aka HOLY SPIRIT PROVEN MORE ACCURATE THAN THE OTHER 2 BILLION CHRISTION WHO READ “The Word” and worship GOD?==
They read amiss.
==/== Over a billion errors.==
Men make mistakes and they are mistaken.
(SO YOU ARE INERRANT?==
No. The Word of God is inerrant.
== DO YOU MAKE MISTAKES?)==
Since I am not God, I make mistakes in unrighteousness. However, Christ makes me Righteous. In Righteousness, I let the Holy Spirit do the interpreting of the Word of God. The Holy Spirit is 100% accurate.
==/==1) The Bible has errors==
Not spiritual errors. God’s Message is 100% intact.
(THAT IS WHAT YOU BELIEVE)==
Uhhh, yeah-uh.
==/==2) The Bibile was Translitterated from (Aramaic to Hebrew to Greek, to German to the Kings English) ==
Irrelevant. KJV is God’s Word, preserved in English, and He gets the Message across.
(IT IS RELEVANT BECAUSE IT SHOWS THE MEANINGS OF WORDS GET LOST IN TRANSLATION)==
The meanings not lost in the areas where they count.
==/=3) The Bible was created at the Council OF Nicea(By Emperor Constantine).==
God created the Word and God created Man; but Man did not create God, nor His Word.
(THE COUNCIL OF NICEA IN ROME CREATED THE FIRST BIBLE. ==
They may have created the first book. The Word of God was created in the beginning.
== SO THE COUNCIL WAS GOD?==
The Word is God.
== SO GOD IN MANY HUMAN PERSONS NOW?)==
Amos 3:3 [KJV]
==/==3) No one person has cornered the market on the (correct interpretation)with proof.==
That’s what the Devil says, too. Keeps that doubt going. That’s why God will save only a remnant, that only a few find the gate.
(NOW YOU ARE HAVING ILLUSORY CONCERSATIONS WITH THE DEVIL? ==
No more than Jesus had in the wilderness. He did not have filthy conversations with the Devil.
== THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR BELIEFS)==
Satan is a fact.
==/==4) People can worship “God” without any Bible.==
That’s basically what the Church of England said to the settlers.
(ITS TRUE YOU CAN WORSHIP WITHOUT A BIBLE)
Hebrews 4:2 KJV
==/==5) Satan canno be proven to exist by mere belief in the document.==
That’s true, but we don’t bellieve in a mere document, rather in God, through the Person of the Word.
(BELIVE IN GOD THEN. THE BIBILE IS THE DOCUMENT WHICH HAS THE WORDS IN IT)==
The physical book is the shadow of the Real Thing. The physical book is NOT the Real Thing.
==/==Anyone can read a national Enquirer and they could have an article on Satan and people could say My experience matches up with the National Enquirer. That doen not make it a Holy Book or validate the existence of Satan.==
That’s true. However, The National Enquirer is men-made.
(THE BIBLE IS MAN MADE==
The Word of God is 100% spiritually accurate.
== REMEBER THE COUNCIL OF NICEA AND EMPEROR CONSTANTINE)==
They put together the book — the physical book — that is a shadow of a Real Thing. The book is not the Real Thing.
==/==6) One can believe that the “Holy Spirit” told them something but not know for sure…==
Yes, they can. You are trying to sow doubt. It’s not working on me, though.
(IM NOT TRYING TO SOW DOUBT.==
Yes, you are.
== I AM ASKING QUESTIONS…==
The Word of God calls them “foolish questions.”
== AND YOU MY FIRND ANRE NOT BEYOND ASKING QUESTIONS)==
Ask away. And I will answer according to the method Jesus used in the wilderness.
==/==… beacuse the documents are not accurate…==
The Word of God is spiritually accurate by 100%.
(THE BIBILE IS NOT 100% ACCURATE.==
The Word of God is 100% spiritually accurate.
== DO YOU HAVE SOME OTHER DOCUMENT THAT YOU WANT TO SHARE called the “Word of God” ==
(Gal 1:6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
(Gal 1:7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
(Gal 1:8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
==Please tell me that we are taking about the same KJV BiBLE-Which has errors)==
The Word of God is 100% spiritually accurate. The “errors” are in your head.
==/==… and may have lost meanings through the translitteration process.==
The Word of God has lost meaning for YOU, thanks to the Devil.
(THR BIBILE IS A WONDWERFUL BOOK. I FIND MEANING IN IT.==
You warp Him to fit YOUR ideas.
== AND TO BLAME A DEVIL…==
I’m not blaming the Devil. I blame people who listen to the Devil and, then, act on what they hear, then, say that they thought of it all by themselves.
==… CANT GET YOU OUT OF THESE QUESTIONS)==
I’m not trying to get out of any questions.
==/==7)There are and estimated 2 billion Christins with thousands of denominations, use different bibiles, and not all of the same cannion. All claim that they have the correct interpretation by the Holy Spirit or the most accurate Bible or Theology.==
The Devil likes it that way.
(YOU CANT ANSWER THIS QUESTION WITHOUT BLAMING ONE OF THE CHARACTERS IN THE BIBLE…==
I’m not blaming the Devil. I’m saying only that he likes your questions. He likes the fact that you choose to sow doubt.
==…-NOT A VERY GOOD ANSWER AND QUITE SAD)==
Translation: “Any answer the does not agree with me is not a very good answer and quite sad.”
==/==8) Mr. Incredible believes that the “Holy Spirit” talk to him…==
That’s the promise of God through Christ. So, it is not just some belief. It is a recognition of fact.
(SO YOUR BELIEFS ARE NOW FACTS.==
My belief is based on the fact of God and His Word and Their performance.
== THEY ARE NOT FACTS THEY ARE YOUR BELIEFS)==
They are my beliefs based on the facts.
==/==… and he can somehow interpret the same innacurate document used to back up his converstations with the “Holy Spirit”…==
The Word of God says that kinda conversation is “good conversation.”
(WELL YOU CANNT BE KINDA WRONG AND KINDA PREGNANT.)
The Word of God refers to good conversation and filthy conversation. Conversation with the Devil is filthy conversation, with the you believe that the Devil exists, or not.
==/==…and even alter the meanings of the same Bible that he has to use to justify his understandings from the “Holy Spirit”.==
I justify nothing. God does the justifying through His Word.
YOU DO THE JUSTIFYING BASED ON YOUR BEIF IN THE BIBILE)==
God, through Christ, justifies me. I don’t justify me.
==/== You then change the mensings of your reference guide.==
No, I recognize the meaning of the “reference guide.”
(YOU CHANGE THE MEANINGS TO FIT YOU OWN BELIEFS==
I changed nothing.
==… JUST LIKE ALL THER OTHER DENOMINATIONS.==
That’s why they are not saved.
==… YOU ARE THE SAME)==
No, I am not the same as they are.
==/== This is pretty funny-possibly insane. ==
Romans 8:1 KJV.
==Mr. incredible will prbably blame Satan for the other 2billion Christians who are confused…==
The DEvil is tghe author of confusion, yes.
(THIS IS THE MOST ARROGANT THING YOU AHVE SAID. ==
Yours is worldly thinking. After all, you are a worldling. I am in the world, not OF it. I am born of God, not of the world.
== IMPLYING THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND 2 billion people got it wrong.==
It’s not up for a vote.
== This is hilarous).==
The Devil left to Jesus in the wilderness, too. Did it stop Jesus? NO!
==/==… and he probably attacked the printer on the King James printing press who changed the words and meanings …==
Textus Receptus, regarding the New Testament, is 100% accurate spiritually when compared to ancient manuscripts cuz the copyists and printers were meticulous, as opposed to the Westcott-Hort Greek copyists who inserted comments and other meanings, etc. Modern versions of the Word are based on WH and, thus, corrupt.
(THAT DOENSNT MEAN ITS TRUE EVEN IF THEY GOT IT 92% Translated)==
The Word of God is not true for YOU. The natural man doesn’t get it.
==/==…which caused the litteral and circumstantial errors in the current bible…==
There are no spiritual errors in the Word of God.
(SO NOW THERE ARE NO SPIRITUAL ERRORS==
That’s what I said. Duh.
== PLEASE EXPLAIN THE DIFFERNECE BETWEEN THE LITTTERAL AND SPIRITUAL ERRORS)==
The natural man doesn’t understand spiritual things. So, it will do no good for me to explain it to you cuz you are blocked from understanding it.
==/==… and that Satan has attaced ever other Chritian who beleives differently from him.==
Satan attacks everybody. Those armed with the Word of God survive the attacks with distinction.
(THIS IS A BELIEF ONCE AGAIN)==
Belief based on facts.
==/== This could be a very unhealthy psycholgial condition.==
According to the world, of course, and you who are a worldling.
(ALL THE ABOVE MAKES MY POINT)==
A wrong point.

The physical book is the shadow of the Real Thing. The physical book is NOT the Real Thing.
(1Co 2:9) But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
(1Co 2:10) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
(Rom 1:19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
(1Co 2:11) For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
(1Co 2:12) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
(1Co 2:13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(1Co 2:14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

==/==Anyone can read a national Enquirer and they could have an article on Satan and people could say My experience matches up with the National Enquirer. That doen not make it a Holy Book or validate the existence of Satan.
That’s true. However, The National Enquirer is men-made.
(THE BIBLE IS MAN MADE==
The Word of God is 100% spiritually accurate.
== REMEBER THE COUNCIL OF NICEA AND EMPEROR CONSTANTINE THEY CREATED THE BIBILE)==

How can you say that you know that the Holy Spirit is accurate when the document is not accurate. ==
Cuz the Holy Spirit must align with the Word of God.
(SO YOU ARE SAYING FROM YOUR OWN ADMISSION)==
Quit misrepresenting my argument. I said nothing of the kind.
(SO ANSWER THE QUESTION HOW CAN YOU KNOW THAT YOUR INTERPRESTAION FO A PERCIVED MESSAGE FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT IS CORRECT WHEN YOU CANT REFER BACK TO A CORRECT BIBLE???? YOU CANT
==/==And if ther are 2 billion different Christian who have divided themselves up into thousands of denominations and sects all claim that they hear from the Holy Spirit and their views are different from one another and probably yours.==
Then, we’ll all see on Judgment Day, won’t we.
(THATS ABOUT THE BEST ANSWER YOU HAVE GIVEN YET) ==
I’m not interested in pleasing you. I don’t care whether you think my answers are good, or not.
(WE WILL SEE ON JUDEGEMENT DAY) :)

I AM DEBATIN MR INCREDIBLE MY ANSWERS ARE IN ALL CAPS.
So how do you know yours is correct over the 1000s of other Christions interpretations from the Holy Spiirt that contradict yours??==
Revelation from God through His Word.
(YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR REVELATIONS ARE CORRECT OVER THE OTHER 2 BILLION CHRISTIANS-THAT IS ARROGANCE)==
That’s your human “reasoning.” The Pharisees thought Jesus was arrogant, too. I’m in Good Company. HALLELUJAH!
(REMBER THE DEBATE BETWEEN DAN QUALE AND BENTSEN-YOU ARE NO JFK TO DAN QUALE. IN THIS CASE YOU ARE NO JESUS. TO DRAW A COMPARISON BETWEEN YOU AND JESUS IS NOT EVEN A COMPARISON.

The Bibile was Translitterated from (Aramaic to Hebrew to Greek, to German to the Kings English) ==
Irrelevant. KJV is God’s Word, preserved in English, and He gets the Message across.
(IT IS RELEVANT BECAUSE IT SHOWS THE MEANINGS OF WORDS GET LOST IN TRANSLATION)==
The meanings not lost in the areas where they count.
(WHERE THEY COUNT) SO WHERE DID YOU GET THE POWER TO DETERMIN WHAT COUNTS? ARE YOU THE POPE? ARE YOU THE HEAD OF THE SBC? ARE YOU JESUS OR GOD HIMSELF. I THINK NOT)

No one person has cornered the market on the (correct interpretation)with proof.==
That’s what the Devil says, too. Keeps that doubt going. That’s why God will save only a remnant, that only a few find the gate.
(NOW YOU ARE HAVING ILLUSORY CONCERSATIONS WITH THE DEVIL? ==
No more than Jesus had in the wilderness. He did not have filthy conversations with the Devil.
(Well You COMPARE YOURSELF WITH JESUS AND HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH SATAN)
== THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR BELIEFS)==
Satan is a fact.
(PROVE YOUR FACT)

==/==How can you say that you know that the Holy Spirit is accurate when the document is not accurate. ==
Cuz the Holy Spirit must align with the Word of God.
(SO YOU ARE SAYING FROM YOUR OWN ADMISSION)==
The Word of God is 100% spiritually accurate. The Holy Spirit must align with the Word of God.
==/==Quit misrepresenting my argument. I said nothing of the kind.
(SO ANSWER THE QUESTION HOW CAN YOU KNOW THAT YOUR INTERPRESTAION FO A PERCIVED MESSAGE FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT IS CORRECT WHEN YOU CANT REFER BACK TO A CORRECT BIBLE???? YOU CANT==
So, YOUR method is to ask a question of me, then answer it so you don’t have to accept the answer that I give. We see.
==/==/==And if ther are 2 billion different Christian who have divided themselves up into thousands of denominations and sects all claim that they hear from the Holy Spirit and their views are different from one another and probably yours.==
Then, we’ll all see on Judgment Day, won’t we.
(THATS ABOUT THE BEST ANSWER YOU HAVE GIVEN YET) ==
I’m not interested in pleasing you. I don’t care whether you think my answers are good, or not.
(WE WILL SEE ON JUDEGEMENT DAY) :) ==
I go boldly and confidently to the Throne of God. No problem.
==/==The physical book is a shadow of the Real Thing.
(SO YOU HAVENT SEEN THE REAL THING. ==
Yes, I have.
== IF YOU SEE SHADOWS WHILE IN A CAVE LOOKING OUR YOU DONT REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU SEE)==
As God says, the natural man cannot understand. And, so, you don’t.
==/==/==God’s Document, not mine.
==… you use as a reference for these “Interpretations” or thoughts you have from the Holy Spirit are not 100% accurate.==
Yes, they are.
(THAT IS DEBATEABLE WITH OTHER CHRISTIANS)==
And, as He says, few will find the gate.
(WHO IS HE?==
Gosh, you don’t know. You STILL don’t know.
== WHERE DOE HE SAY THIS?==
In the Word of God.
== AND HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU WILL BE AT THAT GATE? ==
Cuz I have made sure, and I continue to make sure, that my election is sure.
== YOU BELIEVE YOU WILL GO TO THE GATE.)==
No. I will go THROUGH the gate.
== REMEBER THE COUNCIL OF NICEA AND EMPEROR CONSTANTINE THEY CREATED THE BIBILE)==
They didn’t create the Word of God.

SO YOU COMPARE YOURSELF WITH JESUS< YOU "KNOW" OTHER DENOMINATIONS ARE NOT "SAVED", YOU CHANGED THE MEANINGS OF THE BIBILE BASED ON YOUR BELIEF OF A HOLY SPIRIT MEASSAGE. WOW! LOL

==So how do you know yours is correct over the 1000s of other Christions interpretations from the Holy Spiirt that contradict yours??==
Revelation from God through His Word.
(YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR REVELATIONS ARE CORRECT OVER THE OTHER 2 BILLION CHRISTIANS-THAT IS ARROGANCE)==
That’s your human “reasoning.” The Pharisees thought Jesus was arrogant, too. I’m in Good Company. HALLELUJAH!
(REMBER THE DEBATE BETWEEN DAN QUALE AND BENTSEN-YOU ARE NO JFK TO DAN QUALE. ==
That’s what the Devil says to me, too. However, Romans 8:1 [KJV]
== IN THIS CASE YOU ARE NO JESUS. ==
I don’t have to be. I am a son of God, just as Christ promised.
== TO DRAW A COMPARISON BETWEEN YOU AND JESUS IS NOT EVEN A COMPARISON.==
We ARE to compare ourselves to Christ. He is our Measure.
==/==HOW IS THE REVALATIONS FROM THE “I AM” aka GOD aka HOLY SPIRIT (TO YOU)PROVEN MORE ACCURATE THAN THE OTHER 2 BILLION CHRISTION WHO READ “The Word” and worship GOD?==
They read amiss.
WOW ARE YOU SERIOUS. ==
WOW! I AM.
==I AM GLAD I HAVE MET THE ONE CHRISTIAN PERSON(MR INCREDIBLE) ON THE PLANET WHO DID NOT READ AMISS)==
Exciting, isn’t it?
==/==/== Over a billion errors.==
Men make mistakes and they are mistaken.
(SO YOU ARE INERRANT?==
No. The Word of God is inerrant.
(BUT YOU CAN ERROR THAT IS A FACT)==
However, the Word of God cannot err, and I can read and get Holy Spirit interpretation. That’s all that’s important.
==/== DO YOU MAKE MISTAKES?)==
Since I am not God, I make mistakes in unrighteousness. However, Christ makes me Righteous. In Righteousness, I let the Holy Spirit do the interpreting of the Word of God. The Holy Spirit is 100% accurate.
(SO YOU CAN ERROR IN YOUR MISTAKES AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR PERCEPTION OF EVENTS)ANY EVENT)==
All those who are unrighteous err in the Word of God. However, those who are born again were made Righteous by the words of Christ. So, in Righteousness, with Holy Spirit interpretation, there are no mistakes.
==/==The Bibile was Translitterated from (Aramaic to Hebrew to Greek, to German to the Kings English) ==
Irrelevant. KJV is God’s Word, preserved in English, and He gets the Message across.
(IT IS RELEVANT BECAUSE IT SHOWS THE MEANINGS OF WORDS GET LOST IN TRANSLATION)==
The meanings not lost in the areas where they count.
(WHERE THEY COUNT) SO WHERE DID YOU GET THE POWER TO DETERMIN WHAT COUNTS?==
From the Holy Spirit.
== ARE YOU THE POPE?==
I don’t have to be. God gives those who are born again access to His Mysteries.
== ARE YOU THE HEAD OF THE SBC?==
I don’t have to be. God gives those who are born again access to His Mysteries.
== ARE YOU JESUS OR GOD HIMSELF.==
I don’t have to be. God gives those were born again access to His Mysteries.
== I THINK NOT)==
That’s the first true thing you’ve said.
==/==The Bible was created at the Council OF Nicea(By Emperor Constantine).==
God created the Word and God created Man; but Man did not create God, nor His Word.
(THE COUNCIL OF NICEA IN ROME CREATED THE FIRST BIBLE. ==
They may have created the first book. The Word of God was created in the beginning.
(THAT IS A BELIEF BASED ON A SCRIPTURE WITHIN THE BOOK THAT WAS MADE BY MAN)==
It’s a belief based on fact that the Word of God was with God in the beginning and created by God. The physical book was created by man. The book gets the spiritual stuff 100% accurate.
==/== SO THE COUNCIL WAS GOD?==
The Word is God.
(THATIS A REFERNCE TO THE BIBILE WHICH WAS CREATED BY THE COUNCIL OF NICEA)==
They created the physical book. The physical book is only the shadow of the Real Thing. The Word of God is the Real Thing.
==/==No one person has cornered the market on the (correct interpretation)with proof.==
That’s what the Devil says, too. Keeps that doubt going. That’s why God will save only a remnant, that only a few find the gate.
(NOW YOU ARE HAVING ILLUSORY CONCERSATIONS WITH THE DEVIL? ==
No more than Jesus had in the wilderness. He did not have filthy conversations with the Devil.
(Well You COMPARE YOURSELF WITH JESUS…==
He is my Measure.
==… AND HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH SATAN)==
No, I don’t. That would be a filthy conversation.
Jesus did not converse with the Devil. He responded to the Devil with Scripture in order to guard His gate.
==/== THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR BELIEFS)==
Satan is a fact.
(PROVE YOUR FACT)==
God already proved it.
==REMEBER THE COUNCIL OF NICEA AND EMPEROR CONSTANTINE)==
They put together the book — the physical book — that is a shadow of a Real Thing. The book is not the Real Thing.
(YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN OR EXPERIENCED THE REAL THING)==
Yes, I have.

==YOU CHANGE THE MEANINGS TO FIT YOU OWN BELIEFS==
I recognize the meaning, thanks to the Holy Spirit, and tailor my beliefs to fit the meaning of the Word of God.

MY RESPONSE IS IN ALL CAPS:
Mr Incredible IS THE ONLY CHRIATISN WHO HAS INTEPRETED THE BIBILE CORRECTLY AND GOD HAS GIVEN HIM THE MYSTICAL POWER TO KNOW WHICH OTHER CHRISTIANS ARE GOING TO HELL. THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS>
==/==HOW IS THE REVALATIONS FROM THE “I AM” aka GOD aka HOLY SPIRIT (TO YOU)PROVEN MORE ACCURATE THAN THE OTHER 2 BILLION CHRISTION WHO READ “The Word” and worship GOD?==
They read amiss.
WOW ARE YOU SERIOUS. ==
WOW! I AM.
==I AM GLAD I HAVE MET THE ONE CHRISTIAN PERSON(MR INCREDIBLE) ON THE PLANET WHO DID NOT READ AMISS)==
Exciting, isn’t it?
==/==/== Over a billion errors.==
Men make mistakes and they are mistaken.
(SO YOU ARE INERRANT?==
No. The Word of God is inerrant.
(BUT YOU CAN ERROR THAT IS A FACT)==
However, the Word of God cannot err, and I can read and get Holy Spirit interpretation. That’s all that’s important.
==/== DO YOU MAKE MISTAKES?)==
Since I am not God, I make mistakes in unrighteousness. However, Christ makes me Righteous. In Righteousness, I let the Holy Spirit do the interpreting of the Word of God. The Holy Spirit is 100% accurate.
(SO YOU CAN ERROR IN YOUR MISTAKES AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR PERCEPTION OF EVENTS)ANY EVENT)==
(YOU YOU CAN MAKE A MISTAKE ON DETERNIMING WHAT WAS A MESSAGE FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT AND WHAT WAS YOUR OWN MIND> IT IS POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO MAKE THAT ERROR) BESIDES YOUR REFERNECE BOOK THAT WAS MADE BY MAN HAS ERRORS)
==So which Christians are not saved?==
Those who do not align themselves with the Word of God.(HOW DO YOU KNOW HWO HANST ALIGNED THEMSELVES. THE BIBILE SAY THAT FOR GO SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON THAT WHOSOEVER BEIVES IN HIM SHAT NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE JOHN 3:16. IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT CHRISTINAS ALIGNIN THEM SELVES WITH THE BIBILE. TAT ID YOUR INTERPRETATION AGAIN.
NOW YOU CLAIM SPECIAL MYSTICAL POWERS:
== Since you have this knowing power…==
God promised us this Power. It comes through the Word of God.
==… (Which you really only believe)==
My belief is based on facts to which you have no access.
FACTS YOU CANT PROVE AND YOU BELIEVE IN AND YOU BELIEVE I CANT ACCESS.) :)

MArvel Comics could produce a movie bigger than Iron Man. with all of your powers. Call it the Mr. Incredible!! He has the super power to know if you are going to Hell and to tell 2billion Christains they are wrong. His sidekeck is the Holy Spirit and he makes no miskaes when determining his mind or the Holy Spirits. He has one weakness. He fights in Circles. His head is alaways spinnning from his circular reasonging and he fights an invisible opponent he cant see. Up up and awayyyyyy!! MR. Incredible LOL

==Mr. Incredible you gave a good debate in the begining but now youre in Marvel Comics.==
I’m sorry to see that you think the Word of God is comparable to a comic book. God will make note of it, for future reference.
== Youre Mr. Incredible==
Duh.
==MArvel Comics could produce a movie bigger than Iron Man. with all of your powers. Call it the Mr. Incredible!! He has the super power to know if you are going to Hell and to tell 2billion Christains they are wrong. His sidekeck is the Holy Spirit and he makes no miskaes when determining his mind or the Holy Spirits. He has one weakness. He fights in Circles. His head is alaways spinnning from his circular reasonging…==
Y’know, I already used that. Can’t you come up with your own original stuff??
Anywho…
==… and he fights an invisible opponent he cant see.==
God sees him, and that’s enough.

Christian Miniset Ken Martin “Knows” what he is talking about beacause of his personal experience when he died.

==If you are still not in your comic book.==
That’s YOUR gospel.
== I referenced a Christian Ministers Near Death Experience from http://www.near-death.com==
Another gospel.
==A minister named Ken Martin who had a near-death experience. Upon his return from his experience, he discovered that everything he had previously known – his ministry, his calling, everything – was insignificant in comparison to his experience with the afterlife.==
If he wasn’t dead, then he didn’t experience any “afterlife.”
==”Heaven is not about religious beliefs, but about spiritual actions.” ==
Except that, without the Word, there is no faith in God.
==”It is not true, as some people believe, that we get to heaven by giving verbal assent to belief in God.”==
So, Jesus is a “liar”????
==” It is love…”==
Worldly love?
==”… not religious doctrines…”==
Except that Jesus said that we must follow His doctrines.
==”… that creates spiritual growth.”==
Garbage gospel.
==” Religions are cultural institutions but love is universal.”==
Then, it oughta be abundant. Where is it?? How’s it doin’? Not very well, huh.
==” Those religions which claim superiority over other religions or exclude people for various reasons, go against God’s law to love others as we love ourselves.”==
No, they don’t, IF they do what Christ tells them to do: that is, to give the world the Message of God’s Reconciliation.
==” Although religion, in itself, is not important to God, all religions are necessary because there are people who need what they teach.”==
The teaching of Isalm is not important to me.
==” For this reason, all religions are precious in the sight of God.”==
No, they aren’t. Jesus, as God on Earth, said that He is the ONLY Way to the Father.
==” All religions refer to the same God.”==
Not scriptural. False teaching.
==” All religions are different ways of trying to describe the same God.”==
Not what Christ says.
==” After death, if you insist upon searching for an old man on a throne as God, you will do this for awhile until you get the idea that you are following an illusion”.==
False teaching.

First you say:
==I referenced a Christian Ministers Near Death Experience from http://www.near-death.com
A minister named Ken Martin who had a near-death experience. ==
Then, you say:
==Christian Miniset Ken Martin “Knows” what he is talking about beacause of his personal experience when he died.
==
Which is it?

I tell you a little secret Mr Incredible I have been to the spirit world and back through Out of Body experiences. I know that there is God and it not the “old man” on the throne and we dont have the capacity to comprehend what that word really means. This is what I know through personal experience. We all survive the death of the physical body, we are all immortal spiritual beings. There are spiritual beings and many call them Angels. My feeling is that Jesus is the Christ and he came to show us how to love unconditionally. The lesson in life is unconditional love. I enjoy having these debates with you Mr. Incredible. I do know that God gives us the gifts of spiritual discernment and the reference point is unconditional love. I really just like to debate and I honor your beliefs. Nothing worng with asking a few questions to se where somebody is coming from :)

==I am Saved. ==
(Joh 8:31) Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
(Joh 15:9) As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[So, to contiue in His Word is to continue in His Love.]
(Rom 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
(1Ti 4:16) Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
(2Ti 3:14) But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
(1Jn 2:24) Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

==I have been to the spirit world and back through Out of Body experiences.==
Garbage.
== I know that there is God…==
He is known ONLY through His Word, Christ.
==… and it not the “old man” on the throne and we dont have the capacity to comprehend what that word really means.==
He says that we do. I believe Him.
== This is what I know through personal experience.==
What you THINK is experience.
== We all survive the death of the physical body, we are all immortal spiritual beings.==
Not what God says. It’s what the Devil says. The Devil promises eternal life, regardless of what you believe. That is his message in the Garden, to Eve.
== There are spiritual beings and many call them Angels.==
There are angels of darkness, yes. They aren’t mine, though. They may be yours, and you’ll have the chance to explain that when you appear before God’s Judgment Bar.
== My feeling is that Jesus is the Christ and he came to show us how to love unconditionally.==
What IS that “love”? He says it’s the Message, His Words.
== The lesson in life is unconditional love.==
Whose “love”?
==I do know that God gives us the gifts of spiritual discernment…==
Accessible only throught the Word.
==… and the reference point is unconditional love.==
Does God love evil? Is that unconditional, too? Did Jesus love the Devil in the wilderness, or anywhere else?
(Rom 1:18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

==Your reliance on the bible has somehwat blinded your possibity of a personal experience of the spirit world and of God.==
The Word of God has opened my eyes! I WAS blind, and now I see!
== I believe in my personal experience in the Unconditiona love of GOD and Christ over your religious doctorines.==
I have no “religious ” principles since “religion,” like Islam, is a tradition of men. It is performance and external. Christianity is internal and not performance-based.
== The certainty of my experience…==
The “certainty” of which you persuaded yourself.
==… outrules you belief…==
God says, “No, it doesn’t!”
==… and interpretation of my experience. ==
So, it’s “interpretation” of what you say is your experience, not your experience. I wish you’d make up your mind.

Again…
First you say:
==I referenced a Christian Ministers Near Death Experience from http://www.near-death.com
A minister named Ken Martin who had a near-death experience. ==
Then, you say:
==Christian Miniset Ken Martin “Knows” what he is talking about beacause of his personal experience when he died.
==
Which is it? Was it near-death, or death?

Im not expecting you or trying to make you believe me. I could care less. I know what I know and you believe what you believe. Just know that I have a love for you that goes beyond this deabte. I love you beacuse you exist, you are a sentient human being. It doens’t matter what you do in the shor lifetime or what you believe nothing could ever make me want to punish you much less send you to hell. My love would not allow that. Its unconditional.

I love you Mr. Incredible.

==Im not expecting you or trying to make you believe me. I could care less.==
You mean, “I couldn’t care less.”
== I know what I know…==
You say you think you know what you choose to imagein that you choose to think you know.
==…and you believe what you believe. ==
My beliefs are based on the facts of God through Christ.
==Just know that I have a love for you that goes beyond this deabte. I love you beacuse you exist, you are a sentient human being.==
Did you dream that love up? Did you create it? What Morality created that love?
== It doens’t matter what you do in the shor lifetime or what you believe nothing could ever make me want to punish you much less send you to hell. ==
You don’t have that power anyway.
==My love would not allow that. Its unconditional.==
Do you love the Devil? Did Jesus love the Devil?

==I pray that the love of God and Christ will fill every ounce of your being and bless you and your family 1000 fold. In the name of Jesus Christ.==
Already done.

If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. (1 Cor. 13:1-2, NRSV)

I have faith in the love of GOD and Christ.

==God is love.==
Without the Word, how do you know?
== We experience God’s love…==
How do you know it’s God’s love if you don’t have the Word of God Who He sent?
==… and we share God love through our loving actions.==
Which are…?
Are these “loving actions” based on OUR ideas of “love,” or His ideas of “love”?
the “love” you’ve advocated here isn’t biblical love, rather worldly love, cuz you have said that you reject the Word.
God so loved the world THAT — THAT — He gave His only, begotten Son; and we know that His Son is Jesus and He is the Word in the flesh.
So, God loved the world so much THAT He gave the world His Word — Christ [read also Genesis 1:3, John 1:9 and 1 John 2:8]. The Word is Christ, and, so, when we love, we give Light, Christ — that is, the Word Which is the true Light, God’s Love.
So, one day a few years ago, I was in a Bible study and people were talking about “love” and not defining it, and this became a problem for me cuz I knew that it couldn’t be worldly love, what we, in unrighteousness, think is love cuz that love changes from second to second and person to person. So, I thought that it had to be something else, a higher standard.
I looked in a paperback book sized Bible dictionary for “love,” just to get started, and it says, “unselfish concern.” “Unselfish concern” for what, I asked myself rhetorically. Then, I connected the Message of God, through Christ, and I came up with “unselfish concern for the Salvation of others, as much concern for their Salvation as I have for my own [love your neighbor as yourself, and do unto others as you would have them...].” That fits the Christ Message and what He wants us to do. He wants us to send God’s Love — the Word and true Light — into the world cuz God loves it so much and so do we. His Love has nothing to do with worldly, unrighteous love.

==I have faith in the love of GOD and Christ.==
Not without the Word. Heb 4:2 KJV

==God is love.==
Without the Word, how do you know?
(I HAVE PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED GODS LOVE)
== We experience God’s love…==
How do you know it’s God’s love if you don’t have the Word of God Who He sent?
(I HAVE SEEN THE BIBILE AND IT DOES HAVE REFERENCES TO GODS LOVE)
==… and we share God love through our loving actions.==
Which are…?
(LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF)
Are these “loving actions” based on OUR ideas of “love,” or His ideas of “love”?
(IS BASED ON THE LOVE OF GOD THAT ONE EXPERINCES WITHIN HIS BEING)
the “love” you’ve advocated here isn’t biblical love, rather worldly love, cuz you have said that you reject the Word.
(I NEVER SAID I REJECT THE WORLD OF GOD. I REJECT YOUR INTERPREATION OF THE BIBILE)
God so loved the world THAT — THAT — He gave His only, begotten Son; and we know that His Son is Jesus and He is the Word in the flesh.
(I BELIVE THAT AND I AM SAVED)
So, God loved the world so much THAT He gave the world His Word — Christ [read also Genesis 1:3, John 1:9 and 1 John 2:8]. The Word is Christ, and, so, when we love, we give Light, Christ — that is, the Word Which is the true Light, God’s Love.
(MY SALVATION IS NOT DEPENDENT ON HEARING ANYTHING ELSE OR BELIVEING ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN JOHN 3:16)
So, one day a few years ago, I was in a Bible study and people were talking about “love” and not defining it, and this became a problem for me cuz I knew that it couldn’t be worldly love, what we, in unrighteousness, think is love cuz that love changes from second to second and person to person. So, I thought that it had to be something else, a higher standard.
I looked in a paperback book sized Bible dictionary for “love,” just to get started, and it says, “unselfish concern.” “Unselfish concern” for what, I asked myself rhetorically. Then, I connected the Message of God, through Christ, and I came up with “unselfish concern for the Salvation of others, as much concern for their Salvation as I have for my own [love your neighbor as yourself, and do unto others as you would have them...].” That fits the Christ Message and what He wants us to do. He wants us to send God’s Love — the Word and true Light — into the world cuz God loves it so much and so do we. His Love has nothing to do with worldly, unrighteous love.
(I AGREE AND I HAVE AN UNSELFISH CONCERN AND I DO MY BEST TO LOVE MY NEIGHBOR AS MYSELF-NO ARGUMENT HERE)
Posted by: Mr. Incredible | Apr 16, 2009 3:31:15 AM
==in the end man is the love you give yourself, your family and your friends that matters.==
And, yet, you still fail to define “love,” as God and Christ understand it. Above, I’ve given a working definition that fits with Christ.
(I AGREE AND I HAVE AN UNSELFISH CONCERN AND I DO MY BEST TO LOVE MY NEIGHBOR AS MYSELF-NO ARGUMENT HERE)
== You can share your bliefs…==
What, about another gospel like “near-death” experiences?
(NEAR DEATH EXPERICNES ARE OTHER PEOPLES NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES NOT A “GOSPEL” SPAEKIN OF DO YOU KNOW WHO WROTE THE GOSPELS?
==…and even bring them to your church but dont forget to love them.==
Love them by understanding that “love” is defined, biblically, how, and by doing what, biblically?
AN UNSELFISH CONCERN AND I DO MY BEST TO LOVE MY NEIGHBOR AS MYSELF-NO ARGUMENT HERE.)
I GUESS WE AGREE ON WHATS GODS LOVE. AN UNSELFISH CONCERN AND LOVEING YOUR NEIGHBORS AS YOURSELF.
I STILL DISAGREE WITH YOUR PRIVATE PERCIEDE INTERPETATION FO THE BIBILE THAT WS CREATED BY MAN.
I AGREE WITH YOU ON THE LOVE OF GOD.

==If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. (1 Cor. 13:1-2, NRSV) ==
This along with the following post gives us not one peek into a definition of “love.” All you give is verses that talk ABOUT “love,” not what it IS. The Holy Spirit gives insight, and it is this insight that would go beyond mere quoting to summarizing and telling us what biblical “love” is. A summarization, as that which I gave, would show that you hve a knowledge of the Word that goes beyond mere memorization of the Word, or the ability to go grab a verse here and there and post it, thinking that that is all it takes. It takes more than mere words on a page, rather the mystery of God hidden therein, and only those born again have access to those mysteries.
(THIS IS YOUR ANALYSIS PRESUMTIVE BELEIFS)

SO YOUR BIBILIODOLATRY MR INCREDIBLE is BECOMING VERY APPARENT.

THE BIBILE WAS CREATED AT THE COUNCIL OF NICEA AROUND 325 AD. HISTORIANS SAY JESUS LIVES HUNDRED OF YEARS BEFORE THAT. PEOPLE WHO HEARD AND HAD FAITH IN JESUS SAVING POWER BEFORE THE BIBILE I BELIEVE ARE SAVED. THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT TO BELEIVE IN OR THE LETTERS IN A BIBILE. THATS RELIGION.

SO SATAN IS a PART OF A BELIEF SYSTEM.

MEANING I DONT CARE YOU IF YOU BELIEVE EITHER WAY.

WHY DO YOU BELIEVE SO MUCH IN THE BIBLE?

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen, there is no Heaven or Hell. When we die we will go to sleep and we will sleep for eternity. Your body goes back to the dust. When God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden he told them, from dust you came and dust you shall return. In 1915 the world’s population was just 1.8 Billion people. In 2009 the world’s population is 6.8 Billion people. In the past 94 years the world’s population has increased by 5 Billion people. That’s only one lifetime. In 500 years that will be 25 Billion people. If there is poverty, starvation, global warming and a hole in the ozone layer now, what do you think it will be like in 500 years? Man is literally destroying the earth and himself by over populating. Save your generations from suffering a miserable and horrible end. Stop creating and if you have children tell them when they grow up not to create. Please help spread this message to the entire world.

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Jesus made it very clear – Satan does exist
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And for all those who dabble in contacting the dead, ghosts or spirit guides, there is a universal experience – when you become a Christian, all these spiritual entities reveal themselves to be demonic.