Closing Arguments: Taxing as a Weapon

Taxing just to punish? I don’t think so! I think the taxing is just the start. I really do. How do Americans feel knowing their own Treasury is robbing them? Miffed I bet! I think the Obama Administration is going to do something like good ol’ Jesus Christ would do. Get the whip of cords and tell those Bastards, “This is our fore fathers house, GET OUT!!”

Tyler, your argument doesn’t follow—how does taxing a corporation equal to robbing us the American taxpayers–the right conclusion would be that were getting our money back.

Danny:
THE TREASURY ASKED FOR THE LOOPHOLE! M,kay? THAT IS ROBBING THE AMERICAN TAX PAYER!!

I’d love to have that bonus plan, any of them. No bonuses at my job, and we didn’t even lose billions of dollars, let alone TAXPAYER dollars! Those contracts should have had a funding out clause, or deliverables for performance. How you can “earn” a bonus when AIG failed to the point that it’s now nationalized at 80% government ownership is way beyond my sense of what’s good and right. Tax 99% of it, or give it all back in protest of the taxes. Just give me my tax mone back!

The government starts by passing a bill to tax unjust income, then they can tax whatever and whoever they deem fit. This is extremely dangerous territory and the government is going to steal from those that are successful in no time.

This is a huge mistake. The Democrats are trying to cover their own butts because they caused the outrage but want to look innocent. They never take responsibility, you see it everytime the President reminds us that he “inherited” the crisis. It’s time to move on and deal with the issues and stop playing the blame game.

Tax as a weapon to punish people? They already do it to smokers.

This needs to stop! Taxes levied as punishment, retro-active laws to punish people or entities as a means to enhance a politian’s image….this is all so wrong that it is hard to fathom why the average American is willing to tolerate this behavior. Not to mention that it is a direct violation of Constituional law.

This is a bad precedent. Taxes should be standard and fair. They shouldn’t be used to reward or punish individuals or companies. The bonus issue should have been address as part of the bail-out negotiations. Since it was not, the people involved in these negotiations should be held accountable.
HL Mencken once said “The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.”

This is not a “weapon to punish”. The companies that are being “bailed out” in this instance are stealing from the American people, when they turn around and pay out big bonuses from that money.
Some of those people are not even employed with AIG now.

I say let them keep the bonuses. the goverment know what they were doing, so they say.
the republicans want to go over the stimulas package,but it was rushed thru., and only after it was reported ,is every one mad. it’s very danagerous to let the goverment pass laws with out thinking it thru.

Congress gave them the money. At that point AIG is in control. Congress can not micro manage AIG. Taxing a target group is illegal. This is a prime example when Congress rushes into a bill. Under usual conditions of passing a bill Congressmen barely know what is in a bill of this complexity what would you think on one RUSHED through as this was. The first mistake was giving AIG any money. They should now be in bankruptcy. Sure that would have been painfull but where we are now is more painfull.

I don’t think this is punishment. The laws of this country have always been manipulated to address particular interests at particular times. We allow emminent domain to drive people off their property. Anyone who accepts public assistance, at taxpayer expense, is subject to using the assistance to meet essential needs.
Bonuses are not an essential need – they should give them back. Taxing them works fine for me. Bonuses should not be given to poeople who need corporate welfare. Lawsuits take forever, let them sue. They did not do such a great job, let them quit. Something smells on Wall Street, clean it up.

Where I come from bonuses are tied to performance…if we weren’t profitable, we didn’t get a bonus. Although I am disgusted with the bonuses I think taxing it will set a dangerous precedent for us as taxpayers. If we allow the government to pick and choose who they want to punish for making too much money by taxing them more, who knows what will be next? I fear that it would only be the beginning. I say force them to return it, or deduct it from the next installment as paymetn already received.

Absolutely NOT – What happened to No taxation with out representation?

let’s go after the real criminal….
good old georgie…I could $300 + a year… couldn’t you???? and seize the assets of those crooks who stole our social security money!! Let’s see them live on $400 a month!!!!!

Lawmakers have over stepped their boundries. They make it possible to get the bonuses then want to punish the recipients of them. Using tax as punishment is absurd. However, it does beg the question; If the government can open the door to tax away the bonuses of poorly performing executives then can the average tax payer walk through that door and demand a refund from the politicians paycheck when they make a series of terrible decisions?(As so many of them do). Don’t tax it back. Rectify the problem by not assuming it’s ok to create loopholes to support the multi-million dollar lifestyle of these people on the dime of millions of Americans that are struggling to pay the electric bill.

talk about wolves ready to feast on the sacrificial lamb–Republicans, are ready to pounce on Democrats no matter what. The gall.

To Retroactively enforce a law, that means you had to have had a new law to begin with and Congress did no such thing, hence this tax is very much legal. As for taxing for punishment as someone else said, we already do that to smokers and we also have tax credits for special circumstances(rewards?)–NO break of the law then. This stands end of story REPUBS!

No. Specific punitive legislation is abusive, it’s ex post facto, it’s an abuse of legislative prerogative. The bonuses are outrageous, but the right rresponse is to attack the contracts, not to abuse legislative power. Even better would have been to insist that companies use up all their resources, including funds for bonuses and junkets, before receiving bailouts — and to cap total compensation (no matter how disguised) at the salary of the President of the US.

I’m not ashamed to admit, I drive a dump truck for a living. My company has contracts with both the state and federal govt. I work all year to get my bonus, and I know how I would feel if the govt. took it because of something my company did or didn’t do!!!!

Why should there be a problem with passing a tax bill to correct an omission in the bailout funding? It is astonishing to read how many people think these execs have some kind of RIGHT to millions of dollars from our tax funds. That’s right. Their company ran out of money to fund their bonuses. What they’re using now is MY money, your money. The correction should apply to ALL companies that received bailout funding – so it should not be a punitive action aimed at AIG. Let’s remember the point of a progressive tax system. I make more money than many other people – and I think it is completely right that I pay more taxes. It’s how the government programs that keep us safe, find health breakthroughs, and educate our children are paid for.

The game of bailout has been played for decades now, to keep the international banking cartels rich, so if they ever fail, the taxpayers (middle class) will bail them out, on the excuse that some horrible disaster will befall us if THEY fail. It will continue to encourage the same risky loans because they OWN congress and will ALWAYS be bailed out, so they have nothing to lose. It is theft of the middle class, and theft of my children’s future. STOP thinking its the demo-rats VS. the republic-cons. (They demonstrate they are rats, while the others con the republic.) There’s no difference. It is about the super-super rich who are at the top of these banking cartels who are ripping us off big time. The bailout money was never intended to helping everyone to benefit. It is for the sole benefit of the big banking cartels and the fed, so they can buy up more banks.

PMM -
Those people (not all execs) have a valid contract in place – that gives them the right to the money. So, a $100K accountant who happens to be married to someone who earns $150K just theoretically got 90% of a contracted payment stolen by your federal government, and the rest possibly stolen by state/local govts. Your government is now using your money to justify robbing people – how can that not bother you?

This is our country!!! The politicans are supposed to represent US. We need to take our country back and force these people to listen to us or vote them out. There is no excuse to play the blame game except to C.Y.A. How many thousands of dollars did AIG give to polictl partys??? And how much don’t we know about??? This has got to stop!! We as indivuals have to get involved, WE have to stop this before it goes too far.

90% IS NOT ENOUGH!!!
WE THE PEOPLE that OWN 80% of AIG should tax at least 99% of the bonuses those PIGS stole from the tax payers. You see, the executive PIG that received an undeserved $6MM bonus would retain $600K @90% tax, which is still way too much. Don’t you get it? The PIGS are robbing us blind!
TAX 100% for all I care, but GET THE MONEY BACK!! ALL OF IT!! … and it would be nice if the gang of PIGS went to jail.
VOTE FOR A 100% BONUS TAX ON ANY CORPORATION THAT RECEIVED ANY BAIL OUT CASH.

- We the people don’t 80% of AIG – the federal government owns 80% of the outstanding stock. A shareholder isnt an owner, a shareholder is an investor.
- how is a contract written before bailout funds now considered stealing? Were the employees supposed to be psychic and not enter into agreements? Or, are they supposed to just roll over now that some people are complaining?
- what law exactly has been broken? Even the CDOs at AIGFP were legal. So, are you sending them to jail for making bad decisions? If so, better build more hails – idiocy is rampant.

The question is misguided. Congress did not use taxes as a weapon to punish. They are using taxes to get back stolen taxpayer money. That is fine, just like using tax evasion to send Al Capone to prison was fine.
Congress is not punishing anyone by what they have done. If they were seek tax payments of two or three times the bonuses from the AIG criminals, then there will be some punishment involved.

Tax the ultra-rich, tax the ultra-rich, tax the ultra-rich!!!!

Obo, Gietner, and congress are ALL culpable in this!
Now they all pretend outrage at specifically authorized bonuses that are a result of legislation THEY crafted in such haste?
THEY enacted the legislation allowing these “bonuses”, which apparently are not actually a “bonus” in the way most of us define the word.
All this scheming to deflect blame is unsavory, but adding insult to injury by ignoring our constitutions prohibition against “Ex-Post-Facto” legislation would even more appalling.
If allowed to happen, this course will set a new level of abuse against the citizens our republic, WHO will be the next victim of such misplaced congressional vengeance?
“He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.”
– Thomas Paine

Taxing as a weapon is opening a “Pandora’s Box”. This is setting a precedence of using taxes as a threat without boundaries. Our taxes are now being used to fulfill irresponsible promises made while recruiting votes in a presidential election. Now that 3 1/2 trillion dollars are on the table to “bail out banks/company’s” with no forethought about limitations and guidelines as to how the money can and cannot be used, our government has backed themselves into a corner. Now, for example the billions of tax payers money invested in AIG are being thrown away on executive’s bonuses. The Obama administration’s solution is to use taxes as a weapon as their method to “bail themselves out”.

Law of Common Sense:
a. Offer executive compensation when executives contributed to the success of company.
b. Do not offer executive compensation if the company failed and executives were unable to meet the objective due to their short sightedness or market condition.
Taxpayer money is a loan that a company has to pay back and should not be used as a carrot for retention or any other rewards resulting in more begging.
Taxing the bonus is a joke, there should be a criminal investigation for such malpractice

None of these idiots deserve a bonus. The money should have been used to reduced some of the losses experienced by AIG’s customers and shareholders. That doing so was not a priorty of these people is further evidence of their inability to run AIG as a company. I don’t want to see them taxed at 90%, I want them all fired. I see no reason for government intervention and never thought AIG should have been “bailed out” to begin with. “Bailout” only means keeping the same incompetent crooks in a position that allows them to continue to break the law.

Everyone is up in arms about the AIG employees driving AIG into the ground and then receiving rewards, how about our politicioans driving the United States in to the ground and getting rewards. They are doing the same thing to our country and condemning someone to take the attention from themselves. They are truly masters of deversion and deceipt. If the American people ever wake up their joyride will be over but they are going to do their best to see that that doesn’t happen. I wish someone would total ALL the perks and compensation that Nancy Pelosi gets during the course of a year. I imagine we would faint at the figure it would come to. They are going to keep all of this hidden from us just like they do everything else. I just hope someday the American people would break free of this brainwashing from Washington and realize what truly is going on!! OPEN YOUR EYES AMERICA!!!

Punitive taxation is a bad idea. Don’t go there.

Rephraseing last comment — our administratiion won’t let this tax bill go throughbecause if it goes through the Hedge funds told Obama that NO FURTHER MONEY WILL BE GIVEN TO THIS ADMINISTRATION BY THE HEDGE FUNDS. Administration wants that Hedge Fund money so you will not see that tax bill go through,
Face it — had the job been handled right in the first place none of this would be happening.

take all of the bonunes back no body should get bonunes with a failing co that got bailout money from our taxs take it take it try liveing on 50.00 a week for food like me

It was unthinkable that after asking and then receiving the multi-million/ billion dollar loans that these guys would buy new jets, distribute the money amongst themselves – it was as shocking to the new Administration who acted in Good Faith as it was to US, the regular folks. It’s a shame they behaved so arrogantly but then, they are probably Republicans. I can’t imagine that kindof selfishness. It was a brilliant idea to attach taxes to their dirty deed. Would you trust those guys to pay back their loans? Ha! Let’s not forget it was the Tax Code that put Al Capone away. And, when tax-sheltered nations of Switzerland, Cayman Isles, etc. cough up the identities of their ‘secret’ bank accounts many of those crooks will also go to jail, including not only the con artists but drug dealers, slave traders, the Moffia and other notorious criminals who otherwise would go scot-free. Wonder what percentage is comprised of Republicans? Wouldn’t you like to know?
Yea Geithner! Yea Obama! The answer is – you guessed it: YES. Use the Tax Code to get the crooks!

TOO MUCH TAXING GOING ON!!!!!!! PUNISH? WHY? People’s TAX CUTS would have been a better option….versus spending ten trillion DOLLARS on what?.
Where has the trillions of pork barrel spending money gone? I know some has gone to EURO nations? Probably a whole bunch in politicians pockets. Keep the TRILLIONS here in the USA to rebuild our economy and more JOBS.(Not 150,000 jobs for illegal immigrants!!!!!))
You people in DC are down right ruthless in your spending!!!! People are laughing at you guys, and not because it is funny. IT IS A BIG FARCE! YOU PEOPLE HAVE LOST YOUR MINDS AND ARE EVIL!!! Give us a break…..160,000 new government jobs! Oh, that is really going to help! These are not black jelly beans!!!!! Spend less….remember this is a recession!? Get doing your jobs in DC…..you are getting paid plenty BY US and not fulfilling your obligations to the people or the country!!……we pay your wages, remember you can be replaced by someone who loves America and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights! Someone who LOVES THE US CITIZENS AND WHAT AMERICA STANDS FOR! WE DIDN’T ASK FOR TREASON AND TYRANY! WE WANT OUR WONDERFUL COUNTRY BACK! WE WANT OUR FREEDOMS BACK, THE CONSTITUTION, OUR LIBERTIES, ETC. BACK! WE ARE NOT A GOOD MATCH AT ALL! I THINK WE CAN SEEE THIS NOW AFTER ALL THE ‘CRAP’ THAT HAS COME OUT, AND THREATENING, APOLOGIES NEEDED, SLIPS OF THE TONGUE. REMEMBER, YOU SAID YOU WOULD NOT RAISE TAXES A DIME!!!!!!!!!???????????? OH, THE DECEIT JUST GOES ON AND ON. I SPEAK FOR MANY OTHER AMERICAN’S – THIS JUST ISN’T A GOOD FIT FOR ANY OF US!!!!!! AMERICA IS A REPUBLIC….NOT A MARXT DICTATORSHIP. AMERICA WILL NEVER BE THE SAME THANKS TO THESE ”CHANGES”; WHERE’S THE TRANSPARENCY YOU PROMISED? We want and deserve the”TRUTH”, and need to be treated w/respect…we are living human beings after all.