Closing Arguments: The Craigslist Responsibility?
Craigslist founder Craig Newmark told "Nightline" exclusively that he does not intend to shut down the "erotic services" section of his Web site — despite blatant ads for illegal prostitution and a recent string of violence tied to Craigslist encounters. So tonight, we ask you: What responsibility, if any, does Craiglist have for policing postings for prostitution and other illicit or illegal behavior? Tell us what you think. And follow "Nightline" anytime on Twitter: http://twitter.com/Nightline
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Craiglist is fully responsible for policing the postings for prostitution and other illicit and illegal behavior.
I doubt that Craiglist has a compliance program requirement for its employees, or they would not be letting this sort of thing happen. All employees and management are subject to the legal consequences if they know what is going on and just look the other way. And if there is no compliance training at Craiglist, those legal consequences will be much more severe! I hope some of them go to jail.
It is sad to see that, as the Internet celebrates its 40th birthday this year, it has deteriorated into a widely abused mess. It was created and developed which much more worthy uses in mind.
This is, in turn, just one more manifestation of the 40-year decay of the United States that has been caused by unrelenting failed government.
Posted by: Fix government and clean up the country | April 24, 2009, 11:47 pm 11:47 pm
This story was so, so disappointing to watch and listen to. It stunk of fear mongering and at several moments I truly thought I was watching Fox News. It was neither investigative nor unbiased.
The internet is public, it just happens to be in writing. Long gone are the days in which we try to project that the web is filled with anything more frightening than a public place. Where were the interviews with the people that placed the ads? Where were the interviews with people who use craigslist to have a “casual encounter?” (And for the record, why are those folks any different than someone who walks into a bar looking for a one-night-stand?)
By insinuating that the programmers who run a website for public use are solely responsible for its content, we enable the concept of thought police and language control.
Is the system abused? Sure. Are there creeps and criminals out there? Absolutely. But the ads on craigslist are no different than the print ads that appear in any alternative weekly in most cities, or the conversations that take place on dark street corners that none of us are usually privy to.
There are solutions to be found. But something tells me crime, creeps, and prostitution would still find a way to exist with or without a team of people looking for “dirty words” on the Internet. To attempt to put the founder of a network on the spot by reading him “racy ads” doesn’t push the concept of Internet responsibility – it only makes Nightline sound like a bunch of prudes and immune to the dangers of public thought monitoring.
This could have been an intelligent piece. Instead it was just ridiculous. Too bad.
Posted by: Melissa E. | April 25, 2009, 12:11 am 12:11 am
Ted Koppel must shake his head in disgust any time he is unfortunate to catch a Martin Bashir hosted espisode of his formerly wonderful show, ‘Nightline’. Mr. Bashir wouldn’t know real journalism if it beat him over the head every day for a month. He was and is interested only in making any story as one sided as it takes in order for him to be able to ask questions that make his subject look bad. (Does he think that makes him look good?) He rarely shows both sides of ANY story (Fox News anyone?) and in this Craig’s List story he was at his worst! No mention in any way that all of these same type of ads have been filling the classifieds of newspapers for more years than Bashir has been alive. When was the last time any newspaper took heat for their classified ads? I’m news hound and have been around a long time and I can’t remember anything along those lines in many years. People must be responsible for themselves and not expect everyone around them to do it for them. Craig’s List is no more responsible for prostitution than Bashir himself would be if I became so infuriated by his pathetic journalism that I began destroying every tv that his face appears on. Craig’s List did not begin prostitution, was not the seed of inspiration for murder. Where prositution is legal it is well run and safer than the sex most teenagers engage in. Murder has been around since before we evolved into homo sapiens. Mr. Koppel, we miss you.
Posted by: lorraine | April 25, 2009, 12:15 am 12:15 am
I just contacted Craigslist, since he says he listens to his subscribers. They have a box for suggestions… I suggested that they are 110% responsible for Craig’s listings. I suggested that they have already made enough from these ads for this lifetime. I suggested that they would sleep better at night if the listings were not on their sight. And I told them that it is otherwise a terrific website, one that I may never use again. Sincerely…
Posted by: mary ann barbero | April 25, 2009, 12:29 am 12:29 am
a classic example of yellow journalism—look at the sheer number of ads placed on craigslist over the years, and compare that to the number of violent incidents that are associated with those postings. i strongly suspect that you are more likely to be assaulted by someone following you through the parking lot, or the hot little number you hooked up with at the bar. come on people–we have to assume some responsibility for our own choices.
Posted by: justsane | April 25, 2009, 1:41 am 1:41 am
I’m in total agreement with Melissa E. above. Mr. Bashir is very biased & not true journalist. Craigslist is one of the best sites on the web. It is free to the public which is rare in this day & age. They are not responsible for the despicable acts that some of the members perpetrate. I do believe they try to patrol the site with diligence but for the sheer volume of activity it would be impossible to monitor all ads. Mr. Bahir’s innuendo to the sites approval of prostitution is totally ridiculous. Craigslist… keep up the good work & thank you!!
Posted by: Cory Lynn | April 25, 2009, 2:29 am 2:29 am
Craigslist is NOT villain in this case.Prior to CL being the #1site for on-line classifieds in the US how were classifieds placed? Yes, that’s correct NEWSPAPERS. In LA there are still newspapers that are free for the taking that very clearly advertise sex for money trades. Why are “authorities” not shutting down ALL personal ads placed in ALL newspapers? My goodness since all the self righteous right winged do gooders, republicans and the moral majority are so offended, they should band together along with all of the self important District Attorney’s and out of touch state politicians to pass legislation that newspapers stop accepting ALL personal classified ads and stop accepting money for the ads placed in both the daily newspapers and the “free”newspapers, which are available next to newspaper boxes on just about every well trafficked corner in LA.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!CL is NOT the only online site for SEX ads. There are too many to keep track, but there are definitely at least ten that are used everyday and night in every major city in this country. Why is no one screaming to have these sites close their EROTIC sections?
How many females alone have been murdered, assaulted, robbed, tortured, or kidnapped from just the printed classified ads in the United States since 1980? Or in the 1970′s? Or in the 1960′s? Or in the 1950′s? How many people? Has anyone kept track? I’m sure the statistics are available somewhere and it would be interesting to see if ABC will pick up this question and do the research then provide their viewing audience with the answers.
Bottom line is that if someone is intent to commit a crime then they will find the way to do it. As horrific as these murders are, I think that targeting CL is unfair by prosecutors and law enforcement. Just HOW is it that CL needs to be held financially responsible for the costs of these investigations or for the actions of those with criminal intent in their hearts & follow through with it?
Posted by: IWillMassageU | April 25, 2009, 6:36 am 6:36 am
I must reply to Mary Ann Barbaro and Fix Government and others that insist the personals or the erotic section needs to be removed from the CL site.
are you also contacting your local daily or weekly printed newspapers, the Pennysaver, the free weekly newspaper that is jam packed with your city’s major news items and city guidelines, entertainment guide (movie times & theatrical performances & restaurant reviews)
what about those newspaper’s online classifieds? try looking up what it is your local/city’s online classifieds have available.
what about the phone books for your area? should the phone company, newspapers, any and all university/college magazines, etc. be refusing revenue.
the list can go on forever. You can not have the position of “Not in my backyard” or decide that because your moral standards are set so high that everyone must follow suit? this
looking down your nose and having a superior than thou attitude is a dangerous position. seriously, re-read your comments they have been articulated so read as incredibly immature.
it’s like the scenerio that many parents take, insisting their kids don’t do anything wrong or get high, despite knowing they do & are.
if you do not agree with any of the personal ads, then do not read them.
if you have kids, then be responsible for once and monitor their computer usage and do not allow them to have any internet access on their tricked out cell phones. parents have got to monitor all electronic devices & internet usage. problem is they don’t and always assume their little bundle of joy is an angel. i live in between 1 elementary school, a middle school, and high school.
the middle school boys are the most offensive, worst behaved, have the filthiest language and view women as sex objects if she is attractive.
being a massage provider, i have to stay in shape. i am in my 40′s but look at most in my 30′s i am attractive and not at all inappropriate in my attire or behavior. those boys need to have the crap spanked out of their spoiled rotten over indulged butts and given crash course TRAINING in how a young man needs to behave.
this idiot that killed 25-year-old Julissa Brisman, the massage provider and beat up and robbed others, is& i’ll lay odds on this, that he is one of those “good kids, that never did anything wrong” and his parents & others completely over looked his spoiled rotten i am doing what i want behavior.
instead of blaming CL and instead of blaming any of the victims or daring that any of you is so much better than and OMG!is so danged offended, (please)the source of this problem goes to and remains with the parents and the way that guy was raised.
before you object, look at the quote alongside his senior high school picture!
Mr. fix the gov’t. where was the oversite or compliance by the adults
he was gambling, doing a very illegal activity folks and guess what? his very spoiled, privileged butt wasn’t held accountable it seems for anything, neither was mom & dad and the high school published his statement-and that is the fault of the adult year book adviser,the school board and the entire community. no one voiced any objection that an under aged minor was gambling….gee and no one else see this as a problem?? don’t blame a online service for the actions of a spoiled rotten brat & the lousy parenting he received and the lack of concern or even alarm by his community.
Posted by: IWillMassageU | April 25, 2009, 8:43 am 8:43 am
LET’S STOP FREAKING OUT at relatively insignificant events. It’s terrible that one woman was murdered, but folks, one in a population of 320 million and you want to close down Craigs List ? A tiny number of people worldwide get “Swine flu” and the media has us all scared to death. Goofy Al makes a movie about made-up “global warming” and we have small children scared to death. Come on folks, get a grip.
Posted by: Ron | April 25, 2009, 11:09 am 11:09 am
What next? Ads for sex in the printed news section?! Craigslist should be shut down until they remove that illegal section.
Posted by: Common Sense | April 25, 2009, 11:48 am 11:48 am
Anyone who thinks Craig Newmark should be responsible for what content gets published on his Craiglist site is just wrong. Craig is not his brother’s keeper, nor am I, nor are you. And Craig is not a LEA; that’s the job of the locals.
CL is performing a very valuable, and for for the most part, free service. Where else can you get a deal like that? I have bought exercise equipment from ads on CL; I have had excellent results with employment ads placed on CL — 10 times the response that I ever got from a newspaper ad. Many people don’t read newspapers these days, especially younger potential employees.
It is certainly true there is a lot of sleaze (and therefore danger) on CL, but if you are a modern adult then you’ll just shake your head in wonder (or sorrow, or pity, or whatever) and go about your business. You cannot save the world; understand and accept that concept.
In a way, CL is making the job of your local LEA a bit easier because those who would sell their bodies for money are putting themselves on public view making them a lot easier to find.
One last thought: I would hope you aren’t one who would actually _answer_ one of those ads because if you are, you are opening yourself up to disease and danger (including arrest). Read the ads for whatever reason you want to, then move on to something else.
Have a great day!
Posted by: Majus | April 25, 2009, 1:08 pm 1:08 pm
Interesting that other craigslist patrons wanted the special section set up to get the ads outof their own sections. A blogger from Aberdeen Scotland recently noted that the local government decided to rescind a policy of having a tolerance zone for prostitution, with the result, not of the elimination of prostitution, but of the prostitutes scattering throughout the city.
As for the comment that our morals are declining, the Union Army in Nashville during the Civil War licensed prostitutes with a requirement for a weekly medical exam. It was a successful attempt to reduce the STD rate among the union troops.
The British Army in 19th century India had brothels on post. Reformers back in England ordered them all disbanded. The STD rate among British soldiers skyrocketed, prompting the army to reestablish the brothels. The STD rate sank. The Victorians were not as asexual as either liberals or conservatives think
The craigs list ads are only the on line version of classified ads. The kiler could have targetted other types of ads.
Posted by: Jim H | April 25, 2009, 1:34 pm 1:34 pm
A first timeuser and entry bloger for me but a long time watcher of Nightline.
After reading the first 2 comments on the blog I must say, I agree we all need to take responsibility to “clean” up the country and craiglists could take a big first step but also agree fully with Milessa E. statements in not accusing craiglist!
How about a NEW approach!!! I
nstead of Blame try ACTION.
If as claimed certain sites are full of preditors, why not have law enforcement under cover agents reply to all advertizments and do their jobs! No brainer. No fuss, No mess, Just do it! After a while people will get the hint, do you not think? Craiglist will be doing a service for the community allowing the police to round them up…. like your show on ABC and Child Preditors just with out all the production.
On second thought,some executive might even make it a TV show and call it Advertize and Go To Jail………Do NoT Pass Go,Do Not Collect $200.00.
Seriously I know there is merit in my ideas, the problem is who out there has the integerity to implement it?
Speak up America, Speak up Nightline.
Posted by: Jacqueline Noonan | April 25, 2009, 3:32 pm 3:32 pm
Martin Bashir has just lost even more credibility after doing this “news” piece. He tries to act like he is taking a moral high ground when in fact, he is just being as biased as possible. Since Martin Bashir can not seem to report ANYTHING good about CL or at least give facts onto how rare these incidences are statistically, it is apparent he has his “investigation” made up before he even starts his interview. ABC should be embarrassed that this “news” was allowed to be broadcast.
Posted by: DT | April 25, 2009, 4:46 pm 4:46 pm
I would not mind at all if Craigslist were to back off the “erotic” (read: prostitution) services it advertises. To my mind, it diminishes the credibility of everything else the site offers. It was a wonderful site ten years ago, quickly becoming a prominent online trading post, but at this point the only thing that I think of when I think of craigslist is sleaze. This is the second disclosure of murder associated with craigslist contacts in a short span of time. Perhaps it is time to find a new niche. On the way, perhaps we can all stop fantasizing that prostitution is a victimless crime.
Posted by: marymary | April 25, 2009, 4:55 pm 4:55 pm
i feel that everyone that plays with all that online risky behavior, is the one that makes the choices to put themselves in those positions…why would u want to meet someone from an online site that you have never met? and risk loosing your life? that is a choice of all those woman, and men that have been injured and or killed related to craigslist…im not saying what has happened is right, i do feel bad for the families and friends, but at the same time if those people that lost their lives and got injured never put themselves in that position, then they would still be alive…it is choices and people need to make smart ones…with the way that the world is today, you are stupid if you make the choice to “hookup” online…
Posted by: normaldemocrate | April 26, 2009, 1:03 am 1:03 am
Craigslist is no more responsible for the illicit actions of people who use the service than the publishers of the Yellow Pages or newspaper classified ads. The only thing different is the medium.
Do you want to go after dating Web sites next? That’s also risky. And while we’re at it, let’s ban anything that could cause a risk.
The only people who are responsible for illicit actions are the people who commit them.
Posted by: Alex | April 26, 2009, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm
Com’on people,to comndemn craigslist is ludicrous…”erotic services”is one category of the many that the service offers…a choice…if you don’t want this service, Don’t click there. to blame the service for the hienous murder committed by one deranged individual only gives creedence the “kill the Messenger” mindset of our society. I commend Mr. Newmark for standing his ground…let’s put the onus where it belongs…on the guy that did the deed.
If we are going to have a witch hunt…let, make sure we’re hunting the right witch !!!
You can’t legislate away the actions of the “lunatic fringe”. Recent news events [ie. mass killings and the reactive impotence of law enforcement] should bear this out!!! Just another example of a “knee jerk” response from the news media and society at large…a wish to legislate away more of our rights and freedoms. This time the first amendment of the Constitution of the United States…
Posted by: Nachthexe | April 27, 2009, 12:01 am 12:01 am
Craiglists is no more responsible for the erotic portion of it’swebsite than the credit cards used to pay for the services. What’s nex outlaw credit cards?? “Stupid is as stupid does sir” end of story.
Posted by: Dave Rappoport | April 27, 2009, 11:34 pm 11:34 pm
There was a case where someone went to Craigslist and made a post requesting someone to rape his wife. The poster wanted to fulfil some type of fantasy he had.
This needs to be cleaned up but how. Kids have access to this crap. I never have used Craigslist for the good stuff that it does. However, I went online and went to the personals and was appaled by what I saw. People were exposing body parts, especially men. Our kids have access to this.
The internet is a great tool but with any innovation there sometimes comes a price.
Posted by: T McCann | June 8, 2009, 9:07 am 9:07 am
Stop crying people. If u don’t wanna see the ads don’t look for them. People have too much time on their hands to compare horrible murderers to people lookin for sex. I mean seriously people need to take the stick out of their you know what.
Posted by: timothy | May 12, 2010, 11:51 am 11:51 am