Closing Argument: Gay Marriage and California

Someone has to tell me how the ban is a bad thing for the gay community, doesn’t this take them one step closer to the supreme court? There is now way the SC will not over turn the ban.

Civil Rights should not be left to voters, unless, if they are voting against my rights they are also voting against their own.

There’s a reason the court exists, and that’s to make sure the tyranny of the majority doesn’t trample the rights of minorities. The California Supreme Court didn’t do it’s job today. They did the politically expedient thing by making what amounts to no decision at all.

How long are we going to go back and forth. I’m gay and I don’t believe in gay marriage. Why do we want to mimic such an unsuccessful, hypocritical institution anyway. Let us have the same rights that other taxpayers have that we most certainly deserve… CIVIL UNIONS. Otherwise, give us a refund!

Yes. That’s the way the US Constitution is written.

I am thankful that judges actually ruled in favor of the people. The people supported this through their vote and those views must be upheld. Judges which make their own decisions contrary to the clear wishes of the people is not what democracy is about.

The choice is up to the voters… taking this away will take away freedom and our 1st amendment! America is grouped by different beliefs, societies, religions, race and orientation. But to say that the Supreme Court has the right to take away the ban and Voters “Citizens of America” are left to the side.. will take away the very reason America is America! To bad our Government is taking control of our lives! What happen to America? Sign of the Times.

Look at it this way, individual opinions are not what are in question. The decision puts Gay marriage one step closer to the US Supreme Court and if the history of this county (women’s rights, civil rights, etc.) has taught us anything, discrimination of any kind is NOT acceptable! No matter which side debate we take, discrimination of any kind in the US will not win! In about 50 years, people will look back on these decisions and wonder what took so long and why there was so much debate.

If the State decides to grant some people something called “marriage,” it has to grant that same thing to all of its citizens. Equal protection means equal, not almost equal. We finally figured that out in the Civil Rights movement after decades of strife, thanks to the courts and executive prodding; civil rights for African Americans would NOT have passed popular voter referendums.
By the way, the argument about “close relatives, multiple wives, etc.” was central to denying couples of mixed race to marry in the middle of this century. It demeans people and their relationships as “less than” the normative condition. It was offensive and bigoted then, and it still is now.

A gay marriage should be subject to majority vote only if every marriage is subject to such a vote. If we lump groups together for a majority vote, we deny fundamental individual rights. Unless we start looking at individuals, we miss that point. A gay couple’s marriage should be subject to a vote of the majority only if every couple’s marriaqge is required to be voted upon by majority rule.

Why shouldn’t we as gays and lesbians have the same rights as everyone else. If left up to the people as voters we would be denied these rights as we are the minority. We should have survivors benefits like all the straights. We are the same as everyone else, we have the same problems and go through the same struggles in life, the only difference is the person we sleep with.

No, this is a civil right that is being denied to same-sex couples. We wouldn’t think of allowing a vote regarding civil rights to other minorities – why are we making an exception and denying rights to same-sex couples. I believe that all unions, gay or straight, should be considered ‘civil unions’ – no differences, same rights extended to all. If couple want to go the extra step and have that union recognized by their religious affiliation as a marriage, and their RELIGION allows and accepts it, that is their perrogative and up to them and their church to decide. I think we need to keep the separation of church and state. LEGALLY – all unions should be considered equal…and civil.

The State has the right to define what marriage is, it was won by popular vote by those living in the state. If other states want to propose legislation in this sort it is in their right. I am a supporter of traditional marriage and would want my vote heard if I lived in California. If the voters choice does not matter then where do we draw the line, do we overide the popular vote because a minority was not elected, or because we simply think that someones cival rights were challenged. People are not going to like this post, but I must put forth my opinion. I hold nothing against those who choose to live a homosexual lifestyle, but I to must put forth my vote and that is in support of the proposition.

I agree with Richard S. above, this is about the right to love, it didn’t take an admendment or law, for anyone of us to fall in love and make a commitment to another, so the idea that a majority or any public group can create barriors (descrinination) to love and marriage is wrong and against all the principal of civil rights. Gay Marriage should be allowed and anyone that wishes to marry, be allowed to have the same rights and benefits that others have enjoyed for centuries. After all is said and done, everyone that works and pays taxes, should have EQUAL RIGHTS, equal is equal, or do you have another definition?

I believe as the Bible teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman. If GOD had wanted us to all remain to our own sex, he would have had Noah get sets of 4 animals not two, one male and 1 female for the Ark. Check it out, that book has all the rules including the ones that our Judicial system should be ruling by.
We are not “of the world, just merely passing through” and if more people would relate to that theory than to what is “of the world” we would all be a happier population of people.

To define marriage in the Bible is between a man and a woman. Not between man and man or woman and woman. This is worse than animals, you do not see two male dogs running after each other, or two female chasing each other.

This is a copy of the most intelligent comment submitted. Read it think about it and don’t dismiss the discussed extended ramifications. This is a State Law issue and is absolutely not a Constitutional Law issue.
“If the state, has no right to define marriage as between a man and a woman, then the state has no right to define marriage for anyone; close relatives, multiple wives, etc. Though that thought is often dismissed by pro gay marriage spokesman, I have yet seen the legal argument that would discount it. Legislation is decided either by popular vote or their elected representatives. There are legal, economic, and social ramifications to this and policy should not be left in the hands of a few judges.”

What is wrong with you people in California? Please tell me how it affects your lives if Gay people get married? I’ll tell you how, IT DOESN’T. It’s your business what you follow and don’t follow as far as your religion goes. But when you start taking away the rights of others because of your beliefs that goes too far. Don’t fool yourselves into thinking this issue is anything else but people persicuting others based on their religious beliefs. I don’t care what you belive in, it doesn’t give you the right to take away the rights of others. So no I don’t think voters should be allowed to vote on this issue. If someone wants to get married, whatever sex they may be, then the should be able to and have all the rights afforded to them. Wake up people we live in the 21st century not the 18th.

As most of us know the BIBLE speaks of marriage between a MAN and WOMAN not same sex. I don’t care how these people feel about each other if they want to live that life we as citizens don’t have to make it legal. Just because they fall for their own kind it don’t make it right in God’s eye so why should we be a part of something that’s sinful. They can live together as some men an women do and not marry each other. There is no need for all this protesting the world is in bad enough shape already. We need to be getting our lives together for our Saviors return.

What’s happening to our country. What is happening to our Civil Rights, our Freedom of Choice. This is suppose to be a Free Country. No one should have the right to tell anyone else who they can love or not love or marry or not marry. There should be equal rights for everyone. Live and let live.

I don’t know what is going on here but the disrespectful comments attributed to me above ARE NOT MINE! I said something to the effect of:
Equal rights are protected by law but the gays don’t seem to have equal rights. Equality should not be left to the voters because if it were, we would not have equality for women, blacks or even the right to vote for many. The courts should decide and if they do, I believe they will get equality as defined by law.

While the public has the right to have their voices heard, they do not have the right to determine the law, specifically if the law results in denying rights to citizens. When I fight for gay marriage, I am not fighting for a redefinition of the term, I am fighting for the legal benefits that come with marriage. I want to be the one that determines what treatment my partner receives if she falls ill, I want the option of joint insurance policies and the option of filing joint tax returns. In the eyes of the law, I want my relationship to be recognized. This, for me, is a secular issue, and to deny anyone one legal rights is unconstitutional, so if leaving the decision on gay marriage to the public runs the risk of religious beliefs influencing the outcome, then the public should not have the final say. What would this country look like if personal beliefs were what determined the law? Would we really still be able to call America the land of the free?

As a Christian, I am saddened by the decision, and saddened by all the hatred against gays that is done in Christ’s name. If there’s one thing I am sure of, it’s that Christ would most definitely be AGAINST Prop 8. So much casting of stones! Too bad these so-called Christians spent so much energy hating! If they were real Christians they would be out there trying to make this world better.

Civil Rights are NOT to be left to the “opinion” of voters. EQUAL TAXES = EQUAL RIGHTS. Simple enough for ya?
I vote pro-freedom because I am a proud American. Freedom is something worth fighting for everyday.
-Joel

Yes, the voters should decide on gay marriage. And, it should be a national decision–not state by state.
Frankly Scarlett, I don’t give a damn on this issue. There are much bigger issues that the government of this country and the state and local governments should be working on–like getting us a single-payer nationalized pension system, a single-payer health-care system, defending the country and its borders, and reducing the overcrowding in the country to get the population back below 200 million.
There is a simple solution to the gay marriage issue. Marriage is a name that was already taken to mean a union between a man and a woman–long ago before any of us were born. So, rather than trying to change the definition of marriage, the gays should create there own term for a gay union. They can have all the same rights as go with a marriage. Just call it something else–like “parriage”, or “starriage”, or “gay union”, or anything else.
Alternatively, we could give the term “marriage” to the gays to use as a name for their unions, and we could invent some new term to denote a union between a man and a woman. But, either way, just use different names with the same benefits, and let’s get on with something important–you failed, miserable, sit-on-your-cans-and-do-nothing government!

The rule of the people overtakes – totally – the rule of a few judicial members. Judges can not dictate social mores for society; they have no right to strike down any decision made by citizen voters.
I hope every gay person is allowed the full privileges of marriage in the form of a civil union of some type acceptable to their community.
People show follow the Golden Rule, and the country would be in a much better place.

I’m happy the CA Supreme Court upheld the decision by the residents of CA.

God wont recognize gay marriage no matter how many laws are passed. So you defeat your purpose. End of Story.
If we were all gay = no more children = elimination of human race = Do we understand?

Voter apathy runs rampant throughout this country, even to issues that effect the majority of voters and taxpayers…it has proven itself time and time again. Someone worked very hard to get this issue ” on the ballot ” and it was duly voted on and passed by a majority… to the gay community I say, THEY turned out the vote…YOU didn’t, so query your friends and neighbors as to whether or not they voted…you may be surprised how many no’s you receive…To that I say ” IF YOU DIDN’T VOTE…DON’T BITCH ”
The supreme court did what they were supposed to do when ” The majority rules” they voted to uphold and not to overturn the decision of the majority and effectively “tabled” the issue which will allow it to come up at some future time for another review. You may not like it, but that is our American political process. I have no dog in this fight,this issue to me falls under the “Pursuit of happiness” clause in the Constitution. There are too many instances where local, State, and federal governments have overturned the majority rule of the voters and abused and trampled the rights of the “voter” throughout this country much to the dissappoinment of the voting citizenry … Be glad for once that the supreme court did it’s job!!!

We have always stood on biblical truth in this great nation the (USA). We are one nation under God but it seems to get further and further away from God, and if same sex marriage is allowed it will give this society over to an immoral despicable stinch that will without a shadow of doubt take this country completely out of the will of God. All of those 18,000 gay marriages performed should be retracted.
Prayer has been taken out of schools, godly standards has been diminished and confusion is at a all time high. Our children won’t know what a family is suppose to look like. The gay lifestyle is an abomination before God. I pray for our country to hold on to family that God ordains; male father, female mother and children. Gay rights and Civil rights should never be mistaken to be the same. Race or ethnic background is not a choice, same sex marriage and gay relationships are. “This is not hate for any particular group but an expression of Love and respect for God and and the way He designed family from the very beginning.”

This ruling by the California Supreme Court was a tragic mistake and a misinterpretation of California’s constitution. The justices have abdicated their responsibilities and failed to enforce the “equal protection” clause of their constitution and which should properly take precedence over “mob rule” such as occurred when bigotted and morally bankrupt citizens, voted to deprive others (the gays) of their constitional rights to marriage when they voted to enact Proposition 8.

the reason that our founding fathers set up the tricameral system of government, which includes the judiciary, is that they understood that the majority is not always looking out for the rights of the few. there needs to be a branch of government that, unbeholden to the electorate, can make decisions that are fair and just to all. this is one of those situations.
it does not matter that most of the voters in california voted against the rights of gays and lesbians to marry; the fact is that is in inherently unfair for the will of the majority to trump the rights of any minority group. this is not the same as a vote for one congressional candidate over another. this is about fundamental rights, which as i recall, is what we are all about…
bottom line; if you can marry the love of your life, so can everyone else.

I think the U.S. should do like France and make the civil aspect separate from the religious aspect. This would solve a lot of problems. Here, clergy are both religious and civil functionaries so it is a “two-fer.” In some religions marriage is a sacrament. This is what the fuss is all about. If we did like in France and have people first go and get married civilly and then if they want to, get married in the church, then religions could legistate whatever they want and the gays could still be married civilly. In this way everyone could be happy. This would also be a good thing for heterosexuals as then people who are shaky in their commitments wouldn’t have to have an annulment.

According to your article, the voters already decided in the fall that same sex marriages are wrong. The Bible says that a marriage is between a man and a woman. Study your history, every nation in the past that has accepted homosexuality has fallen.

I am happy to see the California Supreme Court do their job. The people of California voted on the proposition and it passed. If the Supreme Court overturned the decision, then what good is it to even vote on anything. If the California Supreme Court had made their decision otherwise it would now have the ability change the laws based on their whims.
The term ‘separation of church and state’ is not found in the Constitution of the United States nor is it implied. It doesn’t exist period. And the continual use of this term is wrong. The Constitution does say there should not be one “Church” for the country but instead freedom of religion for every person to practice their religion without government interference.
I encourage everyone to read the Constitution of the United States word for word because it does not use the term ‘separation of church and state’. Go see for yourself, don’t perpetuate this falsehood.

To: Against Bigotry, Caroline, Beverly, Chet, Vicki, and Bobbygale
As a dark immigrant citizen, I and my family have faced bigotry. It was so bad, I spent 10 years and $20,000 to get away from it and come to America.
In becoming a citizen, I have learned that this country was founded by christian men with deep beliefs. I and my family are grateful for it, even though we are not christian.
They created a Republic, not a Democracy, for the expressed purpose of not allowing the tyranny of the masses, nor mass hysteria, to steer the course of this ship.
They created a form of government with equal, but separate and distinct powers: The Executive Branch, to lead and suggest direction, The Legislative Branch to confirm, legalize and represent the ‘crew’, and the Judcial branch to sit in judgement of the other two branches, ensuring they steer by the rules.
They found their first attempt, ‘The Constitution’ to be lacking, so soon after, they passed a Bill of Rights, which ranged from
1st. Free Speach,
2nd. Right to Bear Arms
to the
10th: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
So, yes the people of any state have the right to set the moral and legal tone for their state. And, yes, the judical branch will hopefully look out for the rights of the minority, without considering the will of the majority.
I live in California and voted for Proposition 8. The proposition was valid, it was approved and the California Supreme Court finally ruled on a legal rather than a moral or PC basis.
I left my country, my relatives, and everything I knew to escape a government that ruled by ‘democratic’ opinion. As difficult as it was for me to leave, I suggest that Against Bigotry, Caroline, Beverly, Chet, Vicki, and Bobbygale consider moving to my old country, China.

YES I think we the people should be able to decide. So if we vote against something SO BE IT… I think that it’s just crazy to allow 2 men or women to legally being MARRIED IN HOLY MATRIMONY. That is Anti-Biblical. Marriage is something SACRED. Marriage is not some game to play. It’s a covenant and it’s meant for a MALE + FEMALE!!!
We as humans did not get here because 2 men got together and made it happen. The same can be said for the women. Even though now you can adopt or ladies can go to a sperm bank. I think as an American we have the right to vote against something so senseless and when the state supports proposition 8 I think it’s great. I have many friends and family members who are Gay and I love them regardless of that decision. But to try to change the concept of legal MARRIAGE to something so foolish is ridiculous! 

It’s funny how anger and hatred spreads on both sides. If the gays are bashing the christians for THEIR hatred, are they not doing the same thing that the christians doing, hating other people? I though the gays wanted people to understand them…not fuel their HATRED to themselves by attacking their thoughs and religion. Just be glad that america was not established by the muslims. All I can say to the gay community is enjoy your freedom, I mean do you really care what others think about you, and isn’t that why you came out of the closet? Welcome to america, the place where you can be yourself, and hate other people(or not). The choice is yours.

ABC News Nightline Comment on whether or not votes should determine laws around same-sex marriage:
The personal opinions of voters should not be allowed to take “inalienable rights” away from other American voters. All law-abiding Americans have the right to the pursuit of happiness. Many pursue happiness by marrying the one they love. By denying marriage between two (non-related and consenting) adults based on their race, creed, sexual orientation, etc., their right to pursue happiness is being usurped. This is wrong, unjust, and unequal treatment under the law.
Ava

I think it should not be left up to the voters. If all of our right and liberties were left up to the people to vote on then we would have a lot of unhappy people in this country. Who are we to decide on other peoples fate. The courts should follow up with the civil rights movement and put a stop to the discrimination against same-sex couples.

Gay marriage IS a civil rights issue and should no more be decided by the voters than should voters decide if black people could again be sold into slavery or whether or not women can vote. The court should have easily seen that prop 8 violates equal protection and rights for gays and lesbians. I am very disappointed, but prop 8 WILL be reversed, it may just take a little time.

No–it should not be decided by voters. Since all American have to contribute to our society in the form of taxes, everyone should have equally rights. Gays also contribute to schools, parks,community services, tax deductions for married couples and families, and etc.–they should have ALL the same benefits. Since they do not have the same benefits–they should receive a tax exemption.

The Court recognized power to amend the constitution ultimately belongs to the people. At every opportunity THE PEOPLE (of Calif.) have voted to protect marriage. If GAY ACTIVISTS want to change the true meaning of “MARRIAGE”
….THEN they should take it to the people..something they have never done! Any future efforts to repeal PROP 8 will be contested. THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN (AGAIN!!!!)

I dont think christians should legally be allowed to marry jews .. or Whites should be allowed to marry blacks … I also dont think that women should have the right to make the choice of killing a mans baby!!!
Republicans shouldnt marry democrats but i think that ok since there is no law like that …
I do want to marry a millionaire on a television reality show though!!!

A suggestion was made regarding the term marriage. Clearly it’s defined between men and women, however in the eyes of the law/government, let have ALL applications for being wed be filed as civil union license (same sex as well as hetero marriages). Now, if either group has the ceremony in a church, then the couple can say they are married ;). It’s the legality that should be the concern (can the couple have legal right to property, end of life decisions, etc.). If gays still have beef with this, then they are simply “stroking the coals” in order to continue the argument (bitterly).
Thanks for the opportunity to post!

I don’t think it’s anyone else’s business who gets married to who. It’s your opinions that’s all. One day it will get passed we all know it. As a gay woman I know we aren’t going to give up. It’s not right that I can’t marry my partner. “All men are created equal” I don’t ever remember that changing do you? All men are created equal if you want them to do what YOU want them to do?? Suck it. Us gays are going to do what we want so get used to it because we aren’t going anywhere. :)

Yes voters should decide. The court is right, the people are right…marriage is and should be between a MAN and a WOMAN. It’s about time the court listened to the people.

Are you kidding me, “should voters around the country get to decide if gay marriage is legal?” … Of course we do, its our country! Besides, by ABC asking the question, are you implying that voters are not smart enough to make that decision? Is ABC saying that we should appeal to a higher body to make the decision? Certainly not the courts because they are made up of humans, each with their own bias, so you must mean appealing to our Heavenly Father! He is pretty clear on this issue. For Centuries, Marriage has been between Men and Women, that should cahnge just because a small group of people have their feelings hurt.

Doug:
Do you think oppose to interratial marriage?

I think people are acting stupid over this. We were asked to vote, and so we have. Apparently California DOESN’T want gay marriages, and that should be the end of it. Why make us vote is it’ll just get overturned? Waste of time, waste of money, waste of effort, and waste of everything.

JEFF:
HERE HERE!!!

Throughout history people the majority have ruled over the minority. When I look back at why our country was formed, and the things that go on now, I believe we are doing a great disservice to what our for-fathers wanted. One idea that sticks out in my mind is equal taxation and representation. Are gay people being represented? We certainly are paying taxes, and lots of them. Religion and State should not be deciding the laws. If a man wants to marry a man, and a women wants to marry a women, what right does the government have. I understand if religion does not condone such acts. Do we forget Gay, Straight, Black, White, or Hispanic, we are all created from the same source, we are all humans, we all have rights. Is it necessary for us to agree with everything someone feels? Do you agree with your spouse or pastor, or boss all the time?

“Majority Rules – Minority Rights” does not mean the majority can vote to take away a minority’s rights. The very idea! Gay people have just as much right to get married and be miserable as the rest of us, and divorced too, if they should so choose.

Any civil rights legislation, if left to the voters, would never have passed. The arguments against gay marriage are very similar to those against interracial marriage in the 50′s and 60′s. Most people do not begin to understand the Constitution and many don’t try. Unfortunately, this includes many of our lawmakers. Another commenter stated that, if the government cannot refuse to allow people of the same sex to marry then they cannot block multiple marriages or marriages by close relatives. The fact is that first cousins can legally marry in over half of the states-many more than gay people can marry in. There are public health reasons for disallowing marriage between close relatives, there is actually not a valid legal reason to disallow polygamy. Civil marriage-legal marriage-is just that. A legal contract. ANY argument that involves God or religion has no place in the legal debate. While I do believe that, Constitutionally, the states do have the right to decide whether or not to perform any marriages in their state, they DO NOT have the right to state that a marriage performed in another state is not valid. Loving v. Virginia established that precedent regarding interracial couples. Anyone who believes that this is different is wrong.

WOW!!!! In America we get a vote in the marriage between two concenting adult human beings. When do the ballots come out on that woman who wants to marry the man who is punching her in the face on a daily basis, or because he has a nice bank account, or the man marrying that woman because the sex is so good or she looks so nice on his arm. Marriage is to sacrade an institution to allow this to go on. The government must do something to stop it.

SCOTUS won’t get involved cuz “marriage” is a state issue that the State of California has decided. Not only that, but it’s a political question, and SCOTUS stays outta policital questions.

==The arguments against gay marriage are very similar to those against interracial marriage in the 50′s and 60′s. ==
No, they aren’t.
A Black man is still a man.
A Black woman is still a woman.
Both fulfill God’s plan that joins a man, as husband, and a woman, as his wife.
How does the marriage of a man and a man fulfill that plan?

OOPS! Forgot to finish this:
==…”they” can waive around thier Prop 8 laws all they want. That isn’t going to stop gays from getting married…==
Nobody is stopping those who claim to be homosexual from marryng.
Men who claim to be homosexual may marry women who claim to be homosexual. Those who claim to be homosexual are men and women. They are covered by the law the defines “marriage” as the union of a man, as husband, and a woman, as his wife. That is, unless those who claim to be homosexual are members of a third sex.
==… loving one another…==
Nobody has stopped, or is stopping, anyone from loving another person.
==… or being GAY.==
Translation: “… or choosing homosexuality.”
== You didn’t win anything or change anything.==
We won cuz God won.
==Just waisted [sic] peoples [sic] time and money.==
YOU people wasted the time and money.
== Congrats?==
Yes. Our money was well spent.

==Throughout history people the majority have ruled over the minority.==
So, in YOUR world, the minority prevails over the majority, is THAT it?
==When I look back at why our country was formed, and the things that go on now, I believe we are doing a great disservice to what our for-fathers [sic] wanted.==
It our forefathers wants so-called “same-sex ‘marriage’”?
== One idea that sticks out in my mind is equal taxation and representation. Are gay people being represented?==
Yes.
== We certainly are paying taxes, and lots of them. ==
So is everybody else. Things are tough all over.
== Religion and State should not be deciding the laws.==
So, the State should not be “deciding the laws”?
==If a man wants to marry a man, and a women wants to marry a women, what right does the government have.==
In that case, the State is treating everyone alike:
All men have the same “Right” to marry, and all women have the same “Right” to marry. This includes those who claim to be homosexual; after all, those who claim to be homosexual are men and women, aren’t they?
== I understand if religion does not condone such acts.==
It is an “religion.” It’s God.
== Do we forget Gay, Straight, Black, White, or Hispanic, we are all created from the same source, we are all humans, we all have rights.==
You forgot one difference:
Those who are Black and those who are White are physically different. Hispanics have different, physical characteristics, too. Men and women are different.
What is the physical difference heterosexuals and those who claim to be homosexual?
== Is it necessary for us to agree with everything someone feels?==
Those who claim to be homosexual “feel” that they are homosexual. It’s not necessary that I agree with them when they say that they “are” homosexual.

CORRECTION
== I understand if religion does not condone such acts.==
It is an “religion.” It’s God.
——–>
== I understand if religion does not condone such acts.==
It isn’t “religion.” It’s God.

==Marriage is a legal contract in which the parties are bound to each other’s debts (in some states), can inherit from each other’s estates without being mentioned in a will, enjoy the protection of privileged information, and can have sex with the other party (and yea! to states who realize this is a voluntary part of the arrangement and cannot be forced).==
There are three parties to the contract:
The two individuals, and the State.
No party is required to enter into a contract with whose terms it does not agree.
==… if gay people want to be in the same marital bliss (and often personal hell) as the rest of us, let them.==
Those who claim to be homosexual may already marry:
A man who claim to be homosexual may marry a woman who claim to be homosexual, and a woman who claim to be homosexual may marry a man who claims to be homosexual. The law that defines “marriage” as the union of a man, as husband, and a woman, as his wife, does not require heterosexuality in the individuals.
==Whites and blacks didn’t all instantly become evil when states allowed mixed race marriages. And now there are some beautiful mixed race children in my kids’ school. I don’t think the Earth will fall off its axis for allowing gay marriages.==
Black men are still men. Black women are still women.
We already let those who claim to be homosexual marry, as explained above.
== Gays have to overcome enough social obstacles in their relationship without making it harder on them.==
They have the same opportunity to marry that everyone else has.
== One day, all of this will be a chapter in our country’s progressive history, following women suffrage and black suffrage.==
Men and women are different, physically.
Blacks and Whites are different, physically.
What’s the physical difference between those who claim to be homosexual and those who are heterosexual?
==How insane it is that a 14 year old (or younger) cannot legally consent to sex but can be married but, for a gay adult, it is reversed.==
No one stops a person who claims to be homosexual from marrying. Heterosexuality is not required by the law the defines “marriage” as the union of a man, as husband, and a woman, as his wife.

As a free society and a society where people have died to defend freedom, let’s live and let live. Does not means that should re-establish the fundamental definition. Do same-sex practioners need an legal endorsement to continue what they are already doing? or just more attention? Flamboyant!!! Laws should be made to protect legal law abiding citizens and to put criminals in jail.

Here’s the thing, Jay. What we have in this country is separation between church and state. So, please take God and religion out of your argument.
Further, marriage predates religion and most certainly Christianity.
This is about protection of family, regardless of the production of offspring.
What’s next – invalidating marriages where no children are produced?
This is about equal rights, not the ability to reproduce.

Mr. Incredible,
You keep saying that “men claim to be homosexual”.
It is not a choice! Why would someone choose to be a 10% minority? Why would anyone choose to be harassed and tormented?

Prop. 8 wasn’t explaining itself very clearly. It said that if you do not want gay marriage to say yes. Many people don’t really notice the not in most things, considering that most tests use not, capitalized and underlined.