Airbus Wants to Replace Black Boxes with Real Time Data

I don’t think replacing the black boxes is economical or reliable. What if communications are lost for any number of reasons? Then all flight data is now lost. The black boxes provide a back-up of flight data if nothing else. Lets face it, in most airline accidents they are recovered and the data is used to find the cause of the accident. A better solution is maybe to enhance the ACARS to submit more data (but not the whole flight log & voice) and to also do some sort of flight data upload & cockpit voice transmission over VHF/Satellite in the event of a serious problem. In the event of an accident where the black boxes aren’t recovered, then there is more information available.

I second that @ Road Warrior!!!!!!

Digital real-time streaming to multiple recievers for minimal data loss seems the way to go forward. The technology might be weak. Maybe the Military can help out the public here, but considering cost, I don’t see this on a US carrier for at least 5 years now, possibly much more.

That’s the way to go. Real time data is possible now. Airbus has this one right.

“Augment”? Yes. “Replace”? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

After reading the artical I had the same thought as SearamblerOne and Mcbeth25… It’s unfortunate that I also agree with Road Warrior.
However, one has to consider the persons manning and monitoring communication and control systems.
Technology only complements human talent… Reason for why I’dlike to see improvements and innovations on the talent side, too.

I trust airbus as far as I can throw
them.
They knew the speed sensors are having
problems and just sent out an low
keyed advisory notice to have them
replaced. That’s like an automaker
telling its customers to replace their
brakes next time you come in to change
your muffler, because it might
malfunction without warning especially
in bad weather.It took the FAA to
demand that these sensors be
replace on all US carriers. Airbus must
be hiding something from the public.

” And, why must the “black box” go down with the plane?” – T. Wong
Yeah!
Why not put the black box in a pig suit with wings so that it can fly to dry land.

The article headline “Airbus Wants to Replace Black Boxes with Real Time Data” is misleading. If you read the article it states “… and to no longer solely rely on black boxes” so Airbus wants to augment the existing system with real time data, not replace it. A quick Google news search confirmed this as well.

This makes absolute sense, as long as it’s combined with the black boxes, not replacing them. I work in F1 and we stream huge amounts of realtime data from the cars constantly, so the technology is not only there, but has been proven for many years now. The upside is obviously that you don’t have to find it in a jungle somewhere after an event, and you can analyse the data in realtime and alert pilots before there is a problem where possible, potentially saving thousands of lives.

My mom calls the internet modem “the Black Box” because it’s black, and its a little boxxy, lol, but I do agree with some people…
rather than REPLACE the whole black box thing, why not just ADD real time transmission, so just in case it can’t communicate with the control center, due to someone on their cell phone when not suppose to or something else, it will still keep whatever wasn’t transmitted, on the box still
What I can’t believe, is that this hasn’t been incorporated yet…

Being both a pilot and a Ham radio operator. (Ham radio isnot just about talking anymore Hams pretty much invented the wireless data systems…) I have been asking thei question for years.
If you think it will be unreliable: Use both the black box and the real time transfer. Aircraft design has always been about redundant systems.
Nay sayers: Thnk abou t it this was. We have been getting real time telemetry from Mars (the rovers) for years now. Its not new technology.

I agree, something has to be done to upgrade the old world systems on todays aircraft. If we can track a stolen laptop with government data on it, why can’t we locate a black box from a downed aircraft in miles of ocean water? Military aircraft ejector seats pare programmed to right themselves before deploying the pilot with chute. So why couldn’t we have a spot on the tail that would eject the black box from the aircraft with some type of tracking system activated when it is ejected. But also still have it “linked” to a second black box so that the final seconds are still recorded and recovered in the first black box? Just a thought. As for what Bob z stated, yes we truckers are constantly monitored by Qualcomm. I personally hate this little tattletale box, but was grateful when my truck died in the mountains of west virginia and I had no link to help. But one push of the emergency button and my employer was notified of my trucks exact location (down to a 50′ radius) and I had help within 30 minutes. We have the technology to do these things already available. Let’s stop talking about how much it’s gonna cost, and start worrying about passenger safety. What’s the cost savings of installing new technology over 100′s of lawsuits brought by family members of passengers who have died on your aircraft in a crash?

Any information transmitted should not go to the Company. It should go to the civil Aviation agency or FAA. Companies have been known to do funny things to data and records when lawsuits are imminent.

Why can’t they make a secondary black box that ejects from the plane once is is submerged in over 100ft of water? It floats to the surface and sends out a beacon signal. Almost all black boxes are recovered from a crash, you just need to account for the crashes in the ocean.

if everyone would reeeeeaaaaaddddd the article before engaging their fingers on the keyboard and the truth be known this is probably already in place and will just be enhanced military pilots are recorded and tracked their entire flight
get into the right century

I know I certainly don’t want the whole world hearing everything I have to say when I’m in private company. Though it could be helpful, everything Big Brother does is supposed to be helpful. Privacy is no longer something to even be looked at.

I agree with Bruce. I wouldn’t fly on Airbus if they paid me. Look at the last 20 years and see what their record states!!!!!!!!

Article title should be corrected. It’s misleading. Not something a new org should do. Airbus wants to add the realtime communication to the existing black box use. Even the black boxes should be updated. For instance the Sept 11 attacks. How lame is it that they had to piece together what happened from cell calls and texts by people on the planes???? Or how about the planes that they “suspect” were taken down by a bird to the engine? How about identifying when pilots are drunk or sleeping at the stick?? How long will it take for airlines to add simple video data for the engines and crew cabin to the black box? Broadcasting a data feed is not that expensive either. If you can use sat and cell phones in almost any part of the world it seems rediculous that we don’t already have a constant data exchange with planes in the air….

I’m an aerospace engineer and I do not think this is a good idea. When an airliner goes down in the US, who recovers the black box? Law enforcement or the NTSB, not the aircraft manufacturer. From that point forward, there is public oversight. Under this new Airbus concept, Airbus would have possession over the recorded flight data, and would have the data prior to any investigator seeing it. This is not a situation anyone should be comfortable with.

I don’t think there is need to replace blackbox or eject them mid-air. The need is to upgrade Blackbox with GPS components to first physically locate it. If unable to recover it from the GPS location (due to unknown reasons) make it smart enough to self activate it to transmit the data download stream from black-box to server for data analysis via satellite or to the equipment placed in closed proximity were the blackbox is lost. Aerospace Scientist need to be smart enough to keep this thing working and be able self start remotely.
It is also important that as part of security check the blackbox history information is auto-downloaded on server away from plane and run thru smart diagnosis tools to analyze the pre-recorded information for troubles. Diagnosis tool should be smart to send alerts/email or page to associated parties along with log for immed’ response. I believe this does happen as of date, just not as often as expected.
When we think of backup for blackbox and we initiate talk about backup for the backup when media screams how can a backup fail, believe me it does.

I agree with Road warrior!!

So, of the 24 data sources already being transmitted by the doomed aircraft, including airspeed, they solved nothing. So, yes, by all means, lets implement this system and get rid of the black boxes.

Some of the posters are quite on the mark. At least in the USA, the airlines and their lapdogs at the FAA have spent more time and money trying to shutdown vital radio services, such as broadcast, rather than upgrade their own systems. And its much worse in the general aviation sector, where technical standards have not been revised since about 1964 at best. THAT is the reason you can’t use your consumer devices on an airplane. It’s not that the device causes interference, but rather than avionics are prone to interference because of their outdated and outmoded designs. The FAA in particular should not be allowed to manage RF communications, but should leave that to the FCC and NTIA. The FAA should be enforcing telecom policy, not shielding airlines from it. But then again, the opposite of Progress is Congress.

Many helicopters involved in rescue and oil rig work are equipped with external black boxes that float off upon crash, they can be designed to also work with airliners

When the last plane crashed into an unidentifiable area we were shocked because we have a $150 GPS unit in our car and the multi-million dollar plane didn’t!

I’d put 2 or 3 independent redundant transmission systems. But, let’s wait until the economy is good. The system was flawed or not followed in the Brazil incident. How can an analyst design a system that did not notify grounds personnel when it received bad, really bad error messages. Why did the people have to wait until the plane did not show up?
Not a dye, a radioactive dye so they can fly over with a detector and pick up a signal. But, wouldn’t there be a lot of debris that they would find also? But a slowly leaching radioactive dye would lead to the source, unlike wreckage which just floats away from the site. They found the floating wreckage, it’s surprising they did not find the black box.

Undoubtedly the data would be real-time scanned for problems. Also, equally important, the plane could be instantly controlled from the Ground if the human pilots or their controls went haywire. Or if the plane went off course or was hijacked. Most modern planes fly with all electronic controls and the fly-by-wire system could be commanded to land the plane in an emergency. This was discussed after 911.

Black boxes seem to have proven their worth on the ground especially in fire situations. A crash in the ocean is another story.
Wireless communications can not be counted on since such communications can be easily disrupted. In bad weather the problem is even worse.
What might work is lighter than air data storage. Some kind of combination of aerogel and a Sandisk device for example. Or multiple floatable data storage devices.
In 24 hours or less after an aircraft crashed in the water the container of these devices would dissolve and the devices would rise to the surface for easy retrieval. Multiple devices would provide better odds since these devices might become fish food.

Trying to review the data in real time is only possible via a computer. There are too many planes flying to have a person man a console for every plane in the air. Take the human out of the equasion and it might be doable.

This is not about replacing the boxes really…its about complementing them and possibly sending redundant info…
The Air France accident is a terrible indication of how important it is to have a back up system….fact is WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT SENT THAT PLANE DOWN BECAUSE THE BOXES WERE NEVER FOUND. This means whatever it was it is still out there and it could send another plane down again in the future…even if it was the weather for example, if we knew we could compensate, but not knowing means doing nothing about it.
So I think its a good idea to complement the black boxes with live
info streams.

To heck with ejecting the Black Box. Eject the passenger compartment before it slams to the ground @ 600 MPH..