Jerusalem Tomb Discovery Casts Doubt on Turin Shroud

The Fraud of Turin……..a fake? Who would have ever thunk?

At the time the shroud was first gaining fame, the pope had local officials investigate. They came back with the report that they talked with the person that produced it (no, it wasn’t Jesus) and that he was in fact a very clever fellow. It was bringing in the crowds and the money, so the pope declared that it should be considered an important piece, much like a DaVinci, even though it wasn’t real. Feel free to research the history.

Since the scriptural record indicates that the body cloth and the head cloth were folded and separate upon discovery that Christ had ressurected, the Turin Shroud just doesn’t seem to be compatable with scripture. The Gospel of John 20:7.

Not like Christians require a high level of reliable evidence in the first place. Otherwise they wouldn’t be Christians.

The Gospel account describes two coverings. The “veronica” [ver icon - true image] veil is identical to the image on the shroud of Turin including the blood stains – that would indicate the veil was covering the head and then the shroud covered the veil as well as the body (which is consistent with the folded over aspect of the shroud). There are other examples of that type of cloth used in the shroud from the 1st century AD. This is just Israeli propaganda to make Christians angry and make it appear there is a wedge between the US and Israel, so Israel can say ‘we are standing alone against all our enemies’ and that is why we had to use Nuclear Weapons against Iran.

Twill has been around since before the first century. Several hundreds of years in fact.

Whether shroud of Turin is real or fake, what does it matter? ….. is it somehow holy because it once encased Jesus’ body? Like religion as a whole, if you don’t believe no amount of proof will ever be enough ….. if you do believe no amount of proof is needed. I lean towards thinking the shroud of Turin is a fake. In fact, I thought that was pretty much the prevailing scientific holding but like most of you, I lack the expertise to make a valid assessment. So again, what does it matter? Believe what you want. Peace All

The Shroud was purchased by Joseph of Arimathea a rich man, Jesus was laid in his new tomb not thrown in a garbage pile like most victims of crucifixion. The Shroud has been examined by a VP8 analyzer that shows a perfect 3-D picture of the face of Jesus. There are many people who want to deny Christ then and now. The doubters want to not believe. This statement proves nothing. There was a small cloth around his head and the blood stains match perfectly with the shroud and it has been carbon dated to the correct time. Ray Rodgers found evidence that the Shroud that was carbon dated was a piece that was invisibly rewoven, I saw the electron microscope picture of the threads woven end to end. The blood type on both was AB+. There is so much evidence that has been proved like Jerusalem flowers and pollen. You people make me sick, Jesus will deny you because you have denied Him.

> …. judge not, lest you be judged. Jesus was about love and acceptance …. you sir, are pathetic example of christian behavior.

eh, nice evidence; you don’t think someone who wanted to deceive had access to the same gospels, or followed the same logic to deceive? This is ridiculous; it has turned into commentary of christians versus the world. This is a piece of cloth. Remember, no idols, no worship of idols… eh, this includes cloth. geesh. Personally, I don’t think it is real in what it is meant to depict, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t an interesting history regarding it. But just because I don’t believe in this cloth it doesn’t give you the right to assume what else I do or do not believe. Folks need to get practical, though, even in their faith, and stop thinking every discussion is an affront. Faith should stand up to scrutiny, by the way, or else its just sheer adherence to doctrine. And doctrine is stale, often dormant, and doesn’t progress very often.

Well anyone who after finding ancient burial shroud from Jerusalem starts talking about Turin shroud is not researcher or scientist at all.

I dont belive in magic, im not impressed with 2000 year old hyped legends. Frankly if im sure Jesus lived, im sure he was a good compassionate man, im sure he found ways to share 20 fish with 200 people and it was a mirracle everyone shared the meal. But he didnt do magic and turn dirt into fish, he just got people to get along, at a time when the sword was the negociator it was a miracle someone could use Gahandi or Martain Luther King like skills to resolve problems.
People God does not exist, Magic does not exist.

A couple of years ago, the discovery channel took two first century Jerusalem skulls, made a composite, and determined that Jesus looked like Sirhan Sirhan.
Does that mean two skulls found in a future Cleveland mean Abe Lincoln looked like Drew Carey? Of course not. This kind of “science” is a laughable attempt to push a political agenda…nothing more.
Was this leper buried in a hurry, during a TB epidemic? Was he buried after the Roman occupation ended in 70 AD? Was he as wealthy as Jesus’ Uncle, Joseph of Arimethea, who may have been one of the worlds wealthiest men?
Was either shroud a supernatural red herring, designed as a test of Christian faith? I believe we will get the answers in the End.

I AM in agreement with kent.
I once believed in the shroud but now i dont, nor does it matter. The triple inscription is, to me, evidence to th contrary of it being genuine.
My faith is between myself and the Divine and is not dependant on ANYthing material because they are separate domains anyway.

For those of you that retain the ability for rational thought, the latest issue of the Skeptical Inquirer has an interesting and detailed article on a recent experiment that was able to duplicate the Shroud of Turin using only materials available in the middle ages.
If you insist on handicapping your children with creationist fairy tales, do not be surprised when they cannot compete with kids that spent their time learning about how the world actually works.

>
You know it is pretty easy to verify disinformation these days:
>>Study of garments worn by 3,000-year-old mummies excavated in western China’s Tarim Basin (see ARCHAEOLOGY, March/April 1995) has yielded the world’s oldest cashmere threads. Other mummies wore wool twills woven in a plaid design dating to 720 B.C. that required looms most likely brought by settlers from the Eurasian steppes. <<

Historians and scientists around the world cannot agree on how this was made. Each group can “back up” their theory::::
“It’s a photograph” theory: Historian, Nicholas Allen, stated that the image was formed by a phtographic technique from the l3th century.
***There are others (scientists,etc.) who said that the technical skills required to produce the phtographic or near photographic realism in the image would be unrealistically advanced for that time.
“It’s a painting” theory:
In l979 scientists stated that the image is actually made up of billions of submicrometre pigment particles.”
***However, scientists went on to say “that no known technique for hand application of paint could apply a pigment with the necessary DEGREE of CONTROL on such a NANO-SCALE fibrillar surface plane.”
Phtograph? Painting?
Re: the carbon dating – scientists (yes, real scientists) came to the conclusion that the carbon dating was faulty due to a fire the shroud was in centuries before and also for other reasons that I don’t remember at this time. Just look it up if you are interested.
Again, it doesn’t really matter. A person’s faith should not hinge on a shroud or anything like that.
It’s just an interesting thing that, apparently, historians and scientists cannot agree upon over the years.

George Washington’s motor bicycle? Wow! I’ll buy that!! I bought into the turin shroud, the fragments of the true cross, various little bottles of sacred blood and some snake oil, the bible & bits of UFO. Must rush – my son is very sick and I must go and pray for him – it really is great having faith.

Catholic “scholars” are always coming up with new and more elaborate miracles. The Turn Shroud has been demonstrated to be false, it conflicts with the New Testament itself which says Jesus had a separate cloth placed over his face, and now there are supposedly mysterious Aramaic letters which nobody has spotted until now, despite all the analysis done on the shroud for decades. Whatever next?

“The new shroud is in two pieces, one for the head, one for the body. The Turin shroud is a single piece of fabric.”
Apparently these people don’t do their homework. The head cloth was found. It’s the sudarium of Oviedo. The stains on it match the shroud and has the same blood type. Also twill weave existed while Christ was alive.

It doesn’t matter if the shroud is real or not. Faith is a’sposed to be stronger than any piece fabric.