Gay Killing Shocks Police Chief

You see things the way you want to see them, not the way they really are.

Crimes like this are encouraged when hate laws like Prop 8 are passed. What do you expect when you institutional hate through legislation?

Can a whole movement be blamed on two groups of people? What about the Jews, Hispanics, Asians and Muslims, Catholics, Protestants who voted to ban same sex marriage? Last time I was in California, it was made up of more then Mormons and African Americans. The question is; does the institution of marriage require laws to govern that institution? If the answer is YES, then one must define EXACTLY what a marriage is. A marriage has always been between one man and one woman. And in California, majority of the people agree.
How can you make something equal that is inherently unequal? Last time I checked An Apple and a Banana don’t equal two bananas. Nor do two apples equal an Apple and a banana. Get over yourselves you lost. If you want to marry someone get married like everyone else does. Marry one person of the opposite sex. If you don’t want to do that, fine don’t get married. But when you make that choice, don’t try to shove down America’s throat that your “relationship” is a marriage.
With that said I do not what to see anyone die for their beliefs and I do believe this is a hate crime and should be treated by the DA as such. The death penalty should be on the table for this poor excuse of a human being.

What a putrid story. This is shameful. Shameful.

Obama’s campaign against gays seems to working
(for those who don’t know,,, obama toured the south with minister who claim he was once gay, but then was cured)

Carolynn Rust….Well said. I totally agree with you.
Cathy…the black community is more accepting and tolerant of gays than you think. Black communities tolerate far more than these self righteous white communities who are quick to throw the Bible at someone who does not believe what they believe. And Yes, it is a hate crime! I truly feel that marriage is and should be between a man and a woman…that is my right to feel that way. But what someone else chooses to do with their lives is none of my business. I have not heaven or hell to put them in. On the day of judgement I will be in line just like they will be and it is not my call but God. I don’t have to accept what they do, but I can tolerate what they do. They are still human, they still have feeling, they still hurt.

Murder is a the worse crime, It always should be treated as such. only self defense should be given deals when it comes to murder.
A person commiting Murder is a hate crime against the human race. No excuses change that.
A group or gang committing murder Should be the most server hate crime on the human race.

“I still have not found in the constitution where gay marrage is a right. For hundreds of years marrage has been between a man and a woman. Why should we change that for a very small percent of the US. Marrage is a way for them to justify what they know is wrong.”
I still haven’t found the part in the constitution where straight marriage is a right. Some things are spelled out elsewehere in the constitution. They didn’t spell everything out for every simpleton that lives. Besides, I really doubt you have ever even looked at a copy of the constitution!! Just keep repeating what you hear others say, right or wrong!!

Gosh these hate crimes are so despicable, and the full weight of the law must be applied. I think too that by targeting ethnic groups based on how they voted is wrong. Its a right that is given in the constitution, instead of demonizing groups just keep putting forward a postive case about why the issue of gay marriage is important to society.

Lets see: slavery used to be legal, banning interracial marriage used to be legal, a wife being a husband’s “property” used to be legal….that’s the way it always was so why change it? What an idiotic argument. If society never changed and evolved we’d still be living with these things and worse. And I think the reason so many gays are outraged that 75% of black voters in CA went against Prop. 8 is because this is a group who should understand the need for civil rights as much as anyone and also a group that has always had a political friend in the gay community. Mormons also have their own complicated history with marriage. Ironic that these two groups were among the ones who voted most strongly to ban gay marriage.

Gay marriage has nothing to do with civil rights. Equal treatment of a same sex partner as a married spouse is civil rights.
Government is legitimized by the rule of law. Just because homosexuals yell loudly does not make their cause a reason to legislate laws which demean the natural order.

The tradition of marriage in European cultures as a formal union recognized by the church (and by extension, the state) dates back only two to three hundred years. Before that time, only unions between nobles were recongnized by the church. Commoners could marry simply by declaring that they were married (such “common law”marriages are still legally recognized).
The Roman Empire had a form of marriage, and this was available for same-sex couples. Although same-sex marriages were rare, they were common enough for the Church, when it came to power, to force an Imperial ban on the practice.
So the “traditional” definition of marriage is exclusively a religious tradition, as defined by one particular religion. It is not an unalterable law of nature, but it very clearly IS a violation of the separation of church and state.
This is peripheral to the point at hand, which is that it is repugnant to murder a person on the basis of orientation. But I get terribly weary of people with no grasp of history trying to cite it to justify their own phobias.
In no U.S. state where same-sex marriage has been legalized is there any requirement or serious effort to force churches whose beliefs preclude such unions to perform them, any more than there has been any effort to integrate white-supremicist churches. There are plenty of churches and faiths who are more than happy to perform same-sex unions.

The judiciary has every right to overturn a discriminatory law. It is one of the most important functions of the judicial branch to check the excesses of the legislative (or in this case, the referendum process acting in lieu of the legislature).
The most important function of the state (in some views its ONLY legitimate function) is to protect the rights of the individual — quite especially when the individual is in the minority.
And as for the natural order, not every member of a species has to breed in order for the species to continue. In a social species in particular, kinship selection gives a competitive advantage to social groups that include members who contribute to the common pool of resources, but who do not have offspring to consume those resources. That may be one reason why homosexual behavior (and even pair bonding) is documented in such a surprisingly wide array of species.

this happened because of everybody shoving the gay agenda down everyones throat…….. some people think that being gay is unnatural behavior and you can’t change that. More than 70% of americans think being gay is immoral…. oh and by the way I’m a bi-se@#ul so you can’t say I have homophobia

Syracuse Police Chief Gary W. Miguel is a child abuser and gay-basher and beats kids over the head until they are soaked in blood and not breathing. I know because he did it to me back in the 70s. I am not a liar, Gary is. He continues to harass my friends and I am very worried about my family. Gary is very brutal, violent and evil.
Please pray for me.

The Swedish law has already been tested though, the clergy man in reference was put in prison and letter release. This is people with an agenda trying to force there beliefs on religion. You are right, there are religions that will marry same sex couples, but my point is how long will it last before churches are forced to follow the states definition. If Civil Unions offer less than marriages than lets fix that rather than changing the definition of a word that has existed years. One group doesn’t have the right to say that their definition is the only correct one, but one group also doesn’t have the right to change that definition, especially when it does affect the lives of so many. People also forget what this does to parents rights. When a parent teaches their child what they believe, marriage is between a man and woman, then the child goes to school and the teacher says “no that’s wrong it is between any two consenting adults” that undermines the parents and confuses the child. It should stay the way it is, and more should be done to make sure that Civil Unions offer exactly what marriages offer.

Poor Michael, I bet you dont even asscoiate with anyone black or mormon. You like most white gays,probably look down at black people in general.Which is the reason why you’re community didnt do a better job expressing you’re case to black voters.
You just assumed that we would fall in line, because in you’re eyes not being allowed to marry is the same as not being allowed to vote,or being forced into slavery, or being hung from a tree because you spoke to a white woman, or made eye to eye contact with a white man. In your’e eyes its the same as not being allowed to walk thru the front door of a hotel or restaurant, or not being allowed to have a seat at the front of the bus.
Guess what sugar it’s not.Instead of saying we must due a better job in reaching out to our non-supporters. You find it okay to just blame blacks or mormoms for the ban passing. Now while I appreciate the new found importance many see in the black vote. We cant take all the credit. The people of californa spoke,which means its back to the drawing board for the gay community. I’m sure one day you’ll get everything you want. But like blacks in this country, be willing to spill blood, and bust you tails fighting for it.
Look at the bright side. At least while protesting. You dont have police dogs attacking you and you’re children and you’re not being sprayed with fire hoses. See the horror’s my people went thru in this country paved the way for you’re battle.
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Personally I dont care if you marry or not. Marriage is seen as this so called sacred bond, yet we have shows like the Bachelor on TV. So it’s not as sacred as it once was. I also dont think you will ever get the majority of this countries citizens to accept gay marriage.
I really believe it would be much easier to just work on fixing what’s wrong with civil unions.

Erin….In no way would legalizing same-sex marriage force the Mormon church, or any church for that matter, to marry same-sex couples. Churches would still have the right to refuse to perform any marriage they didn’t feel went along with their religious beliefs or the rules for their individual church/synagogue/temple/mosque/house of worship. It amazes me that the Mormon Church can even stand and make any argument about marriage when you look at their history of polygamy (which I do realize is now forbidden but the history is still there) and the fact that you have to be a member of the Mormon Church just to even *attend* a Mormon wedding. It’s inconceivable to me that a parent or a family member of a bride or groom isn’t allowed to see their loved one get married if they aren’t LDS, but I digress. Churches already can refuse to marry couples if they aren’t members of that individual church or one half of the couple is of a different faith or even if the couple refuses to attend pre-marital counseling. No one who is a supporter of same-sex marriages is out to take away a church’s right to allow or deny a marriage within that church. The whole fight for same-sex marriage is to grant to gay and lesbian couples the same CIVIL rights that are granted to heterosexual couples as soon as they are declared man and wife. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with religion and it’s not right for any church to try and deny civil rights to any group.
As for all of those people who say they don’t mind “civil unions” or “domestic partnerships” it’s just the idea of calling it a “marriage” they have an issue with, I have news or you. Every same-sex couple I have ever known who has had a commitment ceremony or entered into an official civil union/domestic partnership refers to that union/partnership as a “marriage” and their partner as their “spouse.” Disagreeing with the definition of “marriage” is not and will not stop same-sex couples from considering their relationship to be a marriage. Legalizing same-sex marriage does not take away your right to believe that it’s wrong or goes against your religion, you totally still and always will have that right. But same-sex couples should also have the right to have their committed, monogamous relationships recognized on a civil level.

Yukon Sam, you are right there isn’t anything to back that up other than what Hasselback said. However the left party in Sweden does want to force pastors to marry same sex couples, saying that it is discrimination not to. How long will it take,after legalizing marriage in the US, for this kind of argument to come up. Don’t tell me it won’t. Would you support that kind of a law and take away someone’s religious freedoms to believe what they want?

To “My Grandfather Bled For His Rights”…
Since you seem to think all white gays and lesbians look down on anyone black, I’d like to point something out to you. I have seen many more inter-racial couples (one member black, one member white) in the gay community than I ever have in the straight community. It seems to me that a person’s value based on their race means so much more to the straights than the gays. The gays and lesbians I know could care less whether or not someone is black, white, brown or green with orange polka dots. They see the person, not the color.
It’s ironic to me that you seem to think that gays just thought the black voters would “fall in line” and support same sex marriage when in the Presidential election, 61% of Obama supporters were white (I can’t find an exact percentage of number of gays voting for him, but I’m willing to go out on a limb and say it’s a pretty high percentage). If we in the white community hadn’t looked past the color of his skin (and I’m very glad we’ve finally reached the day when that has happened), we’d be reading newstories about the appointments to President-Elect McCain’s administration. If Obama had lost the election, can you honestly say that there wouldn’t be a significant portion of the black community blaming whites for not voting for him? How is it possible that one community who has fought so long and so hard for equal and civil rights can sit by and watch another community continue to be treated like second class citizens?
As for your statement, “You dont have police dogs attacking you and you’re {sic} children and you’re not being sprayed with fire hoses,” can I just direct your attention to the raids of the Stonewall Inn in June of 1969, not to mention the countless raids of gay bars across the nation for years prior to that? Why were these places raided? Simply because the patrons were gay. Sure, other reasons were given (i.e. noise violations, alcohol violations, etc) but that was simply a smokescreen. To insinuate that gays and lesbians haven’t had to fight for acceptance and rights is not only ignorant but flat out wrong.

“Would you support that kind of a law and take away someone’s religious freedoms to believe what they want?”
I would no more support a law forcing a church or religion to perform same-sex marriages than I would support a law prohibiting them from doing so. The separation of church and state goes both ways; the state shouldn’t tell the church how to run its affairs (save in the most basic matters of health and welfare) any more than the church should control the state.
Note that Sweden, until very recently, did not have separation of church and state, and the former state religion remains dominant. That’s a fundamentally different environment than exists in America, and the nature of the debate there will be vastly different as a consequence.
Somebody asked why the word is so important to same-sex couples. I would speculate that it’s for the same reasons that it matters to heterosexual couples. “Marriage” connotes a long-term, committed, loving relationship in a way that “civil union” or “domestic partnership” doesn’t. Marriage is the union of two people, from “me and you” to “us”. It is as much a spiritual state as it is a legal one.
But from a strictly pragmatic standpoint, amending and repairing 50 differing definitions of “civil union” (including states where such is outright banned) is a vastly more complex undertaking than having one national standard for marriage that provides equal treatment for all married couples, regardless of gender or orientation.
There is room for people of good will to disagree on this issue, and I apologize if my rhetoric gets a little too impassioned. I have had good friends in my life whose destinies are deeply affected by this question.