Bauer on McCain

On McCain’s trip to Liberty U: "I don’t think it’s nearly enough to repair the damage"

Listen to the interview

Political Punch Interview of the Week: Gary Bauer

Gary L. Bauer, president of American Values, is an influential figure among Christian conservatives and in Republican politics. As such, he’ll attend President Bush’s Monday push for a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between one man and one woman. He came in to ABC News today, and we also asked him some special questions for Political Punch about the presidential race in 2008, and the recent entreaties Sen. John McCain, R-AZ, has made towards Christian conservatives.

Jake Tapper:  I remember covering John McCain in 2000, you boarded the straight talk express after you dropped out of the presidential race.  You endorsed John McCain before he took on Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.  First of all, why did you endorse him back in 2000?

Gary Bauer: Well, there were a couple of reasons. One was that I felt the man was a man of good character, and I was very disturbed and upset by the tactics that were used in South Carolina against him and his family.  I thought there were some things that were overtly racist.  Anonymous phone calls that were being made around the state telling people that he had a black child, making that sound like it was a sinister thing, when in fact they have an adopted child from Bangladesh. So I just felt that this is somebody that I wanted to stand with under those circumstances. Second reason was I felt after private meetings with him that I had reasonable assurances that if he won the nomination, he’d have a pro-life running mate and that he would appoint pro-life justices to the courts, and that was something that I cared about a great deal, and one of the motivating factors in my campaign. 

Jake Tapper: What was going through your head on that day when he gave that speech about the influence of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson as “agents of intolerance”?

Gary Bauer: What was going through my mind on the plane was that I was perturbed there were no parachutes.  I mean, I thought this was a big mistake certainly for him.  I think even right up to that speech, I believe he had a chance to win the nomination. I think that speech ended that chance. And certainly from my standpoint it was a very damaging speech to give because most people didn’t read it.  They only read the stories about it.  He praises religious conservatives in the speech, but what I think came across most in the coverage was that it was a speech against religious conservatives generally, and that certainly caused a great deal of difficulty for me in the months that followed. 

Tapper: And in fact behind the scenes weren’t you not one of the people responsible, if not the only person responsible for the praising of conservatives, religious conservatives in that speech? I believe I heard, and maybe I’m wrong, but I believe I heard that you at the very least made sure McCain praised the work of Chuck Colson, a born again Christian who does a lot of prison fellowship.

Bauer: Right, there was some praise in the speech, but I do think that I was able to strengthen it a little bit and have to say that Senator McCain did not resist that at all.  I think that he legitimately does feel that religious conservatives have a very important role to play and are a very important part of the Republican coalition as evidenced by his recent graduation speech at Liberty University.

Tapper: I want to get to that in second but before I do a couple other questions about six years ago.  One is, that it always struck me that Senator McCain himself, personally is a Christian man, but just comes from a different tradition where he is just much more private. Is that your impression?

Bauer: I think that’s true. I don’t think somebody can go through what he went through in that POW camp without having some sort of faith core and in fact in his book about his own life story, he writes about how his faith sustained him during those years, but I think it’s fair to say that he approaches that part of his life differently that perhaps than many evangelicals would. 

Tapper: And finally, when the Straight Talk Express careened off the highway and into a ditch, it was tougher for him but it must have been tough for you because I know many Christian conservatives were allied with then Governor Bush, and in fact they’re his most ardent supporters today, as we were just discussing. And then a lot of them viewed McCain very very suspiciously — as a tool of the liberal media, as somebody who is secretly in favor of abortion rights, and who knows what else. Was it difficult for you personally? Were you ostracized at all by your fellow Christian conservative politicos?

Bauer: Well, look, I don’t want to make this essentially about me. It was I think an interesting moment for him, and a moment that again, I think was ill advised, and something that he is still trying to repair the damage for.  It’s certainly not a speech that I would have advised him to give, and I, you know, I took my bumps and bruises from some long time friends as a result of the fact that I at that point was a part of his campaign.

Tapper: Now moving on, he gave a speech at a Liberty University, Jerry Falwell’s evangelical college and university in Lynchburg, Virginia. Do you think that did enough to make Christian conservatives either like him, or reconsider him?

Bauer: No, I don’t think it’s nearly enough to repair the damage that I believe he wants to repair because he certainly is going to be a front-runner for the Republican nomination.  It was a good thing that he did it, I was fortunate enough to give the baccalaureate address the night before, and be there for the graduation speech the next day. And I think people were relatively impressed by the man and by his presentation, but on a number of issues that came up over that weekend, including the marriage issue, the Senator continued to signal that he would look on the marriage issue as being a states rights problem. And I find it in spite of his front runner’s status, I find it very hard to imagine that anybody can get the republican presidential nomination who does not support taking national action to insure that marriage remains one man and one woman.

Tapper: Well he is supporting a marriage amendment or a marriage law in his home state of Arizona.

Bauer: He is and that’s very helpful.

Tapper: But is that too little?

Bauer: I don’t think it’s enough, you’ve got a fairly significant part of the Republican coalition, that understands what happens when the federal courts get their teeth into something. We’ve seen it on abortion. We’ve seen it on issues that involved with religious liberty.  And we can pretty well predict, as any observer of American history in the last thirty years can, what’s going to happen unless those courts are restrained, and unfortunately the courts are already signaling that merely states acting on this is not going to be enough.

Tapper: What more does he have to do other than the federal marriage amendment to get a good chunk of the Christian conservative base in the primaries and caucuses.

Bauer: I think he needs to go out on a couple of issues.  The marriage issue would be a great one, I don’t think it’s too late for him to take a different tact there depending on what courts may do over the next few months.

Tapper: So if a court were to do something maybe he would reconsider, because otherwise I think it would look like shameless pandering, don’t you think?

Bauer: Well, it could, keep in mind that the vote coming up in the Senate next week is going to be a vote not on the amendment itself but a vote to end the debate, and move on to consider the amendment so I think even now he could vote to end that debate for cloture, and that would not be pandering, and I think it would be a wise thing for him to do.  But I also would like to see him, and I think it would be wise for him on  other issues like the life issue where he’s got a great pro-life voting record by and large,

Tapper: Doesn’t get a lot of credit for it from the pro-life community

Bauer: No he doesn’t for a variety of reasons.

Tapper: Campaign finance reform is one of them.

Bauer: Yes, yes, absolutely.

Tapper: Is that the main one?

Bauer: Well, I think in that competition between then Governor Bush and Senator McCain a lot of pro-life groups gave the impression that Governor Bush was 100% pro-life, and that Senator McCain was pro-choice, when in fact there was very little difference at all in the records of the two men on that issue.

Tapper: Except Senator McCain during the campaign did say when asked that if his daughter was to get pregnant ultimately it would be her decision. Dan Quayle gave a quote like that once too years ago. It seems to be a gut check decision that makes  I think a lot of people in the political center wonder if pro-life politicians really are pro-life if ultimately they think something should be up to their daughter.

Bauer: A fair observation, that for this constituency that was probably not the best answer to give, although you can certainly make a family issue out of this that you know your children at some point have free will, and you can tell them the right things to do, urge the right things upon them but at the end of the day, depending on their age they are going to make their own judgements.

Tapper: Is that what you think he meant when he said it?

Bauer: You know I’d have to go back, I’d actually forgotten that that was his answer and I’d have to go back and see how he parsed it, in order to see if whether that’s what he was trying to say or not.

Tapper: So if he came out more ardently on the marriage issue and on the abortion issue you think he still could be a viable candidate among Christian conservatives?

Bauer: I think he’s got a clearly a very steep climb here to make in order to repair a lot of damage that’s occurred over the years, but I would tell him, and I have told him, that the Republican coalition that has been so successful for three decades is built on three stools. There is an economic, three legged stool, there’s an economic leg that is lower government spending and lower taxes. There’s a foreign policy leg that is wants a strong US defence and assertive role in the world for American values.  And there is a cultural and social values leg which without the Republican party does not win.  They tried that in 1964 with Barry Goldwater and it was an absolute political disaster, when he took sort of a libertarian approach on these issues.  I don’t believe you can build a lasting Republican majority unless you bring together the elements, those three legs to hold up that stool, and I think that’s the path to victory and that’s the wise thing for Senator McCain or anybody else who wants the Republican Presidential nomination. 

Tapper: One argument might be that McCain has such appeal to the political center in fact in an ABC news poll that we just did comparing McCain and Hillary; Hillary strong in the base, weak in the center; McCain the exact opposite, weak in his base, Republican base, and strong in the political center.  The argument was made that the more he goes out and tries to win that third leg, the cultural and values conservatives, the more he risks losing the people in the center who like him so much.

Bauer: Right, well, Senator McCain’s a very smart guy, but I don’t think even he’s figured out a way to become President without first being nominated, and since the Democrats aren’t going to nominate him I’m assuming that if he gets in this it’s to get the Republican nomination. And so I think if you want the Republican nomination you’ve got to signal to the people that stuff the envelopes, ring the doorbells, and bring the passion to the Republican party, that you understand the issues and your heart is with them on the issues that matter the most. 

Tapper: Who is his competition for the nomination based on the entreaties that you might be getting behind the scenes from other candidates or other staffs?

Bauer:  You know I think he’s in an interesting position because his competition is not clear yet, but I think what is clear just looking at Republican party history is that to the extent he is perceived as the centrist candidate; there is going to be a conservative that will emerge, probably by the time of the Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primaries. 

Tapper: Would it be you? Would you run again?

Bauer: I’m still running from my creditors from the last time I did this so no I don’t think he’s got to worry about me. 

Tapper: What about Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) or Senator George Allen (R-VA)?

Bauer: There’s a number of possibilities, Senators Brownback and Allen are certainly two of them.  Huckabee is a long shot dark horse, but you know if there is a Republican disaster this coming  November an outsider like (GOP Arkansas Gov. Mike) Huckabee, somebody that’s not inside the Beltway, may be in a uniquely influential position to say these guys blew it, they forgot their values, I’m going to go in there and remind them what you all believe.  I think Governor (Mitt) Romney of Massachusetts is impressing a lot of people. 

Tapper: Let me just ask you devil’s advocate again, how can he be impressing a lot of people if the guy was, as far as I can tell, close to pro-gay marriage — and if not he was pro-civil union — and clearly at least once seemed to be in favor of abortion rights? I understand that those positions have, since he got the bug, perhaps evolved a bit, shall we say, but on its face don’t Christian conservatives look at that and say, "Sorry — no thanks."

Bauer: He would have a number of things to overcome.  I think in his case people believe, many people believe, he was pro-life and pro-family before he went to Massachusetts to run, altered it in the state of Massachusetts, and now is going back to where he has been all along. 

Tapper: Where have I heard that before? "I voted for the 80 billion before I voted for . . . "

Bauer: Right, right, I mean in the area that we live in when people have a much deserved high degree of cynicism about politicians it’s not particularly the strongest position to be in.

Tapper: But you still think that Romney has a shot?

Bauer:  I think on the horizon there is another candidate in the other party that people are so concerned about stopping that a lot of people might get to audition for the Republican nomination in order to figure out who can best defeat her.   

– jt

thanks to Jon Garcia and Chrissy Beale for help with the interview.