Title — Moroni
In an interview with the Palmetto Scoop, a South Carolina GOP website, the state co-chair of the Fred Thompson for president campaign, Cyndi Mosteller, says Mitt Romney’s speech tomorrow on his faith will not put the issue of his Mormonism to rest.
"I think that the more people scrutinize, look at and become aware of that doctrine, they will have more questions rather than less," she says, identifying questions about "the Church’s history, and almost theology, on the issue of race – particularly the black race…"
Mosteller says that the "doctrines of Protestantism, Catholicism and Judaism are so vastly different from the Mormon doctrine; from the concept of polygamy being the order of Heaven, to human man’s progression to godhead of other worlds, to the idea that Jesus had multiple wives, to the idea that, after the death of the last apostle, all of Christendom was in apostasy – with a capital "A" as the Church refers to it – until Joseph Smith discovered the golden plates in the 1830s….it’s very unusual to the point that it’s almost unbelievable."
This is why Romney’s speech will not end discussion of his faith.
Just as JFK’s fabled speech didn’t end discussion of his Catholicism.
– jpt
Email
Sen. DeMint: GOP Race Could Go Until Convention
Obama Avoids Questions on Contraception Rule
Are you saying that people will keep discussing Mormonism because there will always be someone spreading misinformation? If people want good information they should go to Mormon.org. If they want bad information they should go to Cyndi Mosteller.
Posted by: Carl, Denver Colorado | December 5, 2007, 10:10 pm 10:10 pm
Mosteller seems to mock Romney’s faith. If that plays well with Fred Thompson he is less of a man than I thought.
Posted by: flyover | December 5, 2007, 10:11 pm 10:11 pm
Jake Tapper needs to get his facts straight. This article is full of misinformation (read: lies) about the Mormon church. He should do some research before writing an article.
Posted by: Melanie | December 5, 2007, 10:16 pm 10:16 pm
The constitution says that no religious test shall be required to hold public office. article 6 sec. 3.
Mr. Tapper should read and uphold the constitution rather than print misinformation about this church. You, Mr. Tapper are Un-American. the Thompson camp obviously don’t know about the constitution and if that is so, Mr. Thompson is not qualified to be President.
Posted by: Dan LIndsey | December 5, 2007, 10:43 pm 10:43 pm
The reason “Mormonism” will be a tough sell is that it continues to be mis-represented by the likes of Cyndi Mosteller. I wouldn’t be surprised if her views on Judaism or Catholicism are equally inaccurate.
Posted by: Tim | December 5, 2007, 11:03 pm 11:03 pm
I am not a Mormon, but am curious about the questions she raised. Perhaps a Mormon can point out specifically what she said that was wrong, instead of insulting her.
Was Jesus a polygamist according to Mormonism?
What is the Mormon theological position on black people?
Do Mormons become Gods?
I’d like to know, and I suspect I am not alone.
Posted by: reality intrudes | December 5, 2007, 11:25 pm 11:25 pm
By addressing his Mormon’s faith, Romney has already destroyed his presidential candidacy. When one reads the Book of Mormon, one will come to the conclussion that that religion is not good for any normal person; that Jesus had many wives is blasphemy. that man becomes Gods show a religion that is insane. It means Romney will eventually become God when he is the U.S. President. Romney and those that profess his faith should be sent to mental instutuations for psychatric evaluation. They are no humans.
Posted by: Sam Lobey | December 5, 2007, 11:33 pm 11:33 pm
My vote was for Thompson until I read this. I don’t really care what the Mormon’s believe. Most of the ones I’ve met have been really good people – devoted to their families, communities, their country, etc. In fact, if you read some of their early history regarding how they were treated by our government, you might be surprised that they are such good citizens. Mr. Thompson owes the nation an apology. Shame.
Posted by: Frank | December 5, 2007, 11:34 pm 11:34 pm
Dan LIndsey, you wrote: “The constitution says that no religious test shall be required to hold public office. article 6 sec. 3.”
Just as a clarification, it actually says “…but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust UNDER the United States.” (Emphasis mine.) This meant federal offices only. The “no religious test” did not originally apply to state offices. Maryland only allowed Christians to hold public office until 1826. North Carolina required office holders to be Protestant Christians until 1835. Catholics were not allowed to hold public offices in New Jersey until 1844. And New Hampshire allowed only Protestants to run for governor and the state legislature until 1877. Furthermore, New Hampshire’s requirement that a person had to be a Protestant in order to vote lasted over 100 years.
Now then, the “no religious test” only applies to requiring a person to adhere to a particular religion in order to be ON a ballot. At no time has the Constitution ever been interpreted as restricting an individual from using religion as a criteria for voting.
Posted by: James Danley | December 5, 2007, 11:56 pm 11:56 pm
This is one American who is increasingly tired of seeing the “faith” of each candidate dragged around on the stage and before the camera. Why is it that no one seems to ask any of these people how their “faith” will “inform” them on representing the interests of those who are NOT evangelicals, NOT Mormons, NOT Muslims, NOT Moonies, NOT Catholics, and perhaps have no faith at all?
I’m rather tired of hearing candidates for the Presidency, who are supposed to uphold and defend a Constitution which explicitly states there be no religious litmus test for holding public office, parading around emphasizing that religious affiliation. Am I supposed to believe that these people can uphold that Constitution when they are ignoring that provision from the start of their campaigns?
Enough of this constant catering to rightwing evangelicals. There are Americans who have other opinions about what we seek in our leaders – isn’t it time for ABC to consider our voices?
Posted by: Kevin | December 5, 2007, 11:59 pm 11:59 pm
Mormons are generally good people with strong faith and moral values. They also believe that “As God is, man may become; as man is, God once was”–a belief that good Mormons can become Gods.
On race, current church doctrine is non-discriminatory regarding the priesthood, effective less than 30 years ago.
Regarding pologamy, church doctrine changed in the 1880s, and the LDS church now excommunicates known pologamists.
Regarding the Book of Mormon, there is no teaching therein on pologamy or that Jesus married and had many wives. Most protestants could agree with most of the text in terms of doctrine. But other church documents in the 1800s, still considered sacred by the Church, does advocate pologamy.
On race, the Book of Mormon does have references to the Nephites, a “white and delightsome” people vs the darker skinned Lamanites that they believe were in America during the time of Christ and for years thereafter.
The LDS church doctrine is very judgmental of non-Mormon churches, claiming they are in Apostacy and must be rejected.
It does appear to me that the biggest challenge to Mormons is the changes and inconsistencies in their theology over the years. They want to be accepted by Christians and yet maintain that Christian churches are all wicked and in Apostacy.
For me, the idea of aspiring to become a God is very heretical to the Christian faith. So is the idea that God was once like us, and that God, too, has a God–its a view they call “eternal progression”
But in character, dedication, and lifestyle, there is much to immulate.
Posted by: Larry | December 6, 2007, 12:24 am 12:24 am
Next November vote for who you feel represents your values and ideas of good government…be that Clinton, Obama, Romney, McCain, etc.
I’m not an effective apologist for our doctrine, so I won’t attempt to delve too much into this.
In addition to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint’s (aka Mormon’s) belief in The “Holy Bible” as a testament of Jesus Christ, the church also professes that the “Book of Mormon” is scripture and is a testament of Jesus Christ.
Please, before accepting as “fact” what you hear reported on the news, internet, blogs, forums, RSS feeds, me, etc. about Mormons, get your information from the “source” itself, then make your judgement. Neither the Mormon church nor it’s people are out to do harm or misrepresent our doctrine. We have no other agenda than to help “make bad men good and good men better.”
If this is important to you, then here is a good place to start:
Request the free copy of “The Book of Mormon” and “The Restoration DVD” (bottom of web page above). Watch the DVD, then read from The Book of Mormon. Pages 151-158 will give you a good initial “feel”. I promise, you will not go blind.
You may find it surprising that Jesus Christ (i.e., Savior, Redeemer, Messiah, etc) is mentioned more frequently in the Book of Mormon than in the New Testament.
Then sometime before Christmas, sit down with your family, loved ones, or in solitude and read Luke chapter 2.
Merry Christmas!
John
Posted by: John Slauson | December 6, 2007, 1:49 am 1:49 am
To “reality intrudes”:
I’m a 30-yr-old and member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I’m not a church leader, and I do not speak for the church. But I am a regular, fully active member of the Church, and I served as a missionary for my church for two years.
The notion of Jesus Christ having one wife or multiple wives has no place in our doctrine. That idea is not found in the scriptures (The Holy Bible, The Book of Mormon, etc.), and it is not found in the teachings of church leaders.
It is true that Black men were not allowed to be priests until 1978. Ever since, race has not been considered in ordaining priests. The church now flourishes in Africa, for example, where clearly priests are black. As to why blacks could not be priests before 1978, it is not clear. It would be tempting to say that the church members were racist or prejudiced, but having looked into that, I do not see that as the case. I don’t have any explanation for the church’s pre-1978 policy, but I can say that we are not a racist people. My own family has many black friends–skin color doesn’t mean anything.
Now, for becoming Gods–We believe that all people are children of God. We believe that God loves us so much, that He wanted to make it possible for us to receive what He has. He sent us to earth to provide us with growth experiences, so that we could learn to act for ourselves and choose good and help others. God’s ultimate and beautiful goal is to help us become as He is. He knows that we are imperfect and unworthy. But we believe that through the infinite power of the sacrifice of The Savior Jesus Christ, we can be cleansed from our sins and made pure and holy. Eventually, after the resurrection, we believe the Christ’s power will perfect us, that we may become as God is.
I hope that helps! -Dan
Posted by: Dan | December 6, 2007, 1:50 am 1:50 am
I think we should leave the religion out of it and compare what the candidates are going to do. When one looks at the values practiced by faithful members of the Mormon Church, I see no danger! Neither do I see danger in a faithful Baptist! They all practice and have good standards. It’s funny the Mormons do not hold the same animosity towards other religions. It is false to say the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS reject other religions. This is not true. The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS simply claims that an Apostasy occurred, that partial truth exists, but that the authority to act in Gods name was lost as predicted in the New Testament.
It’s sad that we get all twisted up over the practice of Polygamy, yet we believe in our Bibles which clearly support other generations which practiced it without raising an eyebrow! If people would read their own Bibles, they would know that Polygamy was practiced by their own admired prophets, such as Abraham and others. The claim that man can become like “Our Father, which art in Heaven” is not insane. The Bible clearly states that we are literal offspring our Father which art in Heaven, that we shall die like men, but rise to become as our Father in Heaven –A God (see Psalms 82:6—“I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High”). Think of your own children, they become fathers and mothers. We have miniature practice models here folks, called families!
Why aren’t we looking at the Baptist faith which proclaims God is one, like an Egg! Yet, Stephen being stoned sees two personages and after Jesus was baptized, a voice from Heaven proclaimed that Jesus was His Son, for whom He was well pleased! How much more obvious can the separation be? But you won’t see the members of the “Church of Jesus Christ of LDS” out there attacking them on such a belief. Nor do they claim Baptist believers are going to Hell because they are not a member of their Church. This is NOT taught.
Simply put, the nation was built with good inspiration, from God I might add—separation of church and state; so why are we even bringing the subject up?
Posted by: Doug | December 6, 2007, 2:16 am 2:16 am
I think the JFK speeches wound down many aspects of his Lifestyle–then the Nixon personality wound down alot of the intricate “moralities” of political struggle..later Hubert Humphrey would bring things closer to the real dirt..Why a look at Mitt Rommney so close to home(Mormons)and new England..or how to succumb to the Clinton’s and their Global “intellectualism”..maybe running for President means its a RUN for the next best thing..not so much about following your-IDEALS-those practices that mentionSELF(Leadership)binding your PAST&FUTURE by some really hard facts..INSTEAD..America is looking at its next MINUTE STEAK..well..I can’t find the wrong in Mitt Rommney..or the bad concept of Rudy Giulianni..I do see alot about America that’s way “out of character”..is freedom looking at a candidate(??)or has freedom turned a “nose” to some distant “purpose”.I don’t thinkthe two candidates in Mitt Rommney and Rudy Giulianni find acceptance in that DISTANT-smell..they tend to hold the Leadership in the larger freedoms of self..American’s just might loose a position because of their cowardly stand on inner strength.
Posted by: Mark S. M. | December 6, 2007, 3:11 am 3:11 am
Sometimes I very much joke about circumstances and ADD-”God is Irish”..I’m not Irish myself but find alot about the likelyhood of an Irish outcome.
Posted by: Mark S. M. | December 6, 2007, 3:27 am 3:27 am
And they didn’t pin her down with the question of whether she would support his candidacy if he won the nomination???
What wimps!
Posted by: WakeWashington | December 6, 2007, 4:20 am 4:20 am
Shame on ABC News and shame on Cyndi Mosteller for publishing such false information with such a tone of implied accuracy. Any thinking, responsible person checks their facts before publishing comments such as the ones stated-which are, by the way, false. Such wild assertions could have easily been researched and not included. But of course, that was not the purpose. I do not understand the constant misrepresentation of beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If anything has surprised Mormons over the last several months, it has been the ignorant (and sometimes purposefuly misleading) misrepresentation of the church and it’s tenets. It is a surprising and stunning blow to find other Christians bearing false witness against things one holds sacred.
Posted by: Jan | December 6, 2007, 6:41 am 6:41 am
I think religion has everything to do with our country. If we take that out, we take out freedom and what our country established itself upon.
However, I have visited a Mormon church, and although I am not really sure all of these assumptions are correct, I do know Mormonism includes a separate doctrine in which they believe Joseph Smith is a big part of the bible. It is written in Revelations (if we are to go by these standards) that the bible is neither to be added to nor taken away, therefore, Mormonism has done such, and some of these facts about multiple wives and extra doctrine that Mosteller told about is correct. But we have people who mistreat these religions as well .We need to be aware of all these religions that do spread contradictory beliefs other than what only the BIBLE says and correct it from there. We need to be informed on the bible so that we can understand what is going on about our country.
Posted by: Daph | December 6, 2007, 8:14 am 8:14 am
“This is why Romney’s speech will not end discussion of his faith.” I agree, especially when people like Ms. Mosteller are going to dredge the issue up time and time again to try to build any advantage for her candidate. Ms. Mosteller should instead concentrate on giving her candidate pointers on how to feign interest and concern in the debates he is in instead of appearing almost comatose.
I find it more than deplorable that, with all the other issues facing us, we choose to fixate on candidates’ religious beliefs, as if that will solve the problems confronting us. I’d find it refreshing and honest if candidates would choose not to talk about their religion and not to belittle others in the race, but instead focus on what they would do as President.
And as for Mormonism, I’m reminded of the famous quote from Mark Twain about the Book of Mormon: “Chloroform in print.”
Posted by: chuck | December 6, 2007, 8:35 am 8:35 am
Oh heckfire folks–I remember the 1960 campaign. Most of the country was Protestant, and many people alleged that JFK, if elected, would have to ‘clear it with the Pope’ before he did anything. I hope we, as a country, have come farther than to think that, if elected, Romney’s particular faith would color his Presidential decisions. Evangelical Christian candidates face that kind of ‘whisper-campaign’ mentality, too. Okay, fine–admit that religious ‘turf wars’ exist in this country and try to get over it–but don’t encourage it, as the Thompson PR lady did in South Carolina. That kind of talk just warms up somebody’s jet engine for a flight into the Mormon Tabernacle–we’ve had enough of that, already.
Posted by: SteveW | December 6, 2007, 8:59 am 8:59 am
The questions asked about the Mormon cult on Good Morning America were softball questions. Most people know the answers to these questions. These are the 5 questions that need to be answered:
1. Was God a man who became a god and then got his own planet?
2. Did God have a physical relationship with Mary?
3. Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
4. Can believers in Mormonism, if they do good works, and tithe, and become a “Temple Mormon”, also become a god and get their own planet too?
5. Can deceased ancestors become Mormons through proxies that stand in in rituals that “baptize for the dead”?
Even though the statements that are made say that once Christians truly understand Mormons will somehow overlook these amazing differences, it is my considered opinion that most people of any faith will find the Mormon beliefs to be beyond any measure of being a legitimate religion, and will bring great concern that having someone that holds these beliefs to have the clarity of thought to lead this country.
Posted by: mike | December 6, 2007, 9:27 am 9:27 am
reality intrudes –
There are many posts above yours explaining Mormon Doctorine.
Mormons- do not believe Jesus had Multiple wives the Church doesnt have a stand on whether or not he had one!(p.s. is the info going to bring you closer to christ?)
We do believe you can become a god but it is misrepresented. This is a promise from the Bible read it its there!
Google the articles of faith read them then actually pray about it then reply back.
Posted by: K.Beath | December 6, 2007, 10:05 am 10:05 am
These posts are almost too hilarious for words: Followers of various fictions debating which fictions are acceptable and which are not.
Posted by: DKNY | December 6, 2007, 10:31 am 10:31 am
Daph, Google the constitution, read it, and then tell me where religion belongs in this country. And in case you haven’t noticed, Bush has already taken away your freedom. Don’t confuse the facts.
Posted by: Mary | December 8, 2007, 9:33 am 9:33 am
Mary, would you care to explain what freedoms President Bush has taken away?
Posted by: James Danley | December 8, 2007, 1:14 pm 1:14 pm
The little DK below who laughs at anyone with any religion at all–calls one’s faith ‘fiction’–thinks discussing the points of different religions is ‘hilarious’–has a friend. It’s the overnight and weekend thought-police reserve officer– obviously a low-paid, low IQ kind of a little guy who doesn’t have the guts to post in public, so he cuts others’ posts and ideas here. Yeah, the little DK has the right to laugh at those who dont agree with him, just like people have the right to pass wind in a crowded elevator. People with any class do neither, but the little DK below doesn’t really have much class, as the little weekender with the Sharpie pen does not either.
Posted by: SteveW | December 8, 2007, 7:17 pm 7:17 pm
Mary, you wrote: “…the constitution, read it, and then tell me where religion belongs in this country.” Actually the Constitution ONLY limits the federal government from having religious tests for elective offices. The First Amendment, LITERALLY, just prohibits Congress from PASSING ANY LAWS respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise of religion. So if taken LITERALLY, religion is allowed ANYWHERE and EVERYWHERE we want it to be,except for religious tests for elective offices. The U. S. Supreme Court errored when it ruled that the First Amendment wanted there to be a separation of church and state. How can you separate religion out of the state when doing so violates the First Amendment by prohibiting the free exercise of religion???
Posted by: James Danley | December 9, 2007, 10:58 am 10:58 am
SteveW: I never called faith fiction, I called religious narratives fiction. And then I simply noted the humor in a follower of one fabricated narrative (God did not create Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago; human beings evolved) questioning the wisdom of someone else’s fabricated narrative (God did not place a book with little gold pages in a mountain in Utica, NY). It’s like debating whether Bugs Bunny or Sponge Bob is the better auto mechanic.
Posted by: DKNY | December 11, 2007, 9:18 am 9:18 am
Talk about taking obscure Mormon notions and placing them at the head of what mormons believe……you take what is sacred and precious to others and cheapen and twist it.
Do mormons live a Christ-like life of love, giving, service, etc?
Do they actively tear other churches down like so many “christian” churches do?
born again churches also claim that if you are not saved their way, you go to hell, do they not? What about Catholicism? They also claim to be the only true source of salvation.
Posted by: James | December 27, 2007, 12:10 pm 12:10 pm