Real ‘Work’? Clinton Swipes at Chelsea’s Profession

Anyone have a line on Team Clinton campaign $$$ coming from persons employed by hedge funds? I bet it dwarfs all other candidates.

How many millions – of the $140m wasted in their campaign – did the Clintons suck out of Wall Street and hedgefunders ? Their hypocrisy is boundless.

Sour grape comments in this thread — Hillary is willing to stand up for workinig class people. She has done so her whole life. This is not just recycled rhetoric from the Patrick…errr….Obama campaign. She has a long and distinguished career of standing up for the less fortunate.

WestCoastMessenger – Clinton has done what? Can you provide any specifics to back up your opinion? Are you speaking of her Senate record? One or two concrete examples would suffice.

Senator Clinton has “worked the night shift” (as she claims speciously in a new ad) about as much as George W. Bush has proven to be “a uniter, not a divider” and “a reformer with results.”

I suppose this is just me – perhaps the last person alive who happens to be pleased we won the Cold War – but when Clinton says “we also have to reward work more,” isn’t she taking another step away from traditional American perspectives?
I thought the jobs market rewarded our work. Those who want to advance are supposed to work hard, in a marketable job. In other words, we’re primarily responsible for ourselves, and our own income.
Sure, there are exceptions – people who need help overcoming obstacles not of their making, or people who need help gaining equal access to opportunities. I don’t think many in either party is arguing for a complete dismantling of our current safety nets.
That’s all well and good, so long as its in a context of also not dismantling our fundamental American views on individualism, including individual responsibility. We’ve seen what happens to societies that lose their own sense of individualism, and they’re among the most dysfunctional economies – and arguably societies – on the planet.
Several notable examples of this recognize it in themselves, and are trying to re-introduce some sense of individualism – namely the Russians who are desperately trying to rebuild a capitalist economy, and the Chinese, who have somewhat successfully implemented free enterprise zones.

Can someone please tell me how in the world a hedge fund guy making $50mil can pay less percentage than a $50k.

She is so utterly shameless and craven; and still peddling class warfare when she has no clue what she’s talking about. Those hedge-fund banking types work INSANE hours. And contribute far more to the national economy in taxes than a blowhard Senator from New York.
I pray her presidential ambitions implode, forcing her to slink back here to New York where her cultish followers will mindlessly reelect her until she’s an embittered old Senator for life. Disgusting.

I hope she does win 50% to 41%. But it frightens me that Wisconsin has an insane system where any Obama Cultist, or anyone else, can walk in today from any where in the country, or from Canada, lie and claim they are a Wisconsinite, register and vote in either primary. That’s scary.
Obama is not qualified, and his wife is an America-hating lunatic.

We remember when Hillary came into Western New York and promised 1,000′s of jobs. This was about 8 years ago. Since then, we’ve LOST 1,000′s of jobs and people. You’re for Western New York right Hillary? What a crock! This lady is worst than a used car salesperson.

Does anyone doubt that Mrs. Clinton payed a lower percentage of income tax on the Millions she made last year too? (gee I wonder if that is why she is hiding her financial records). She could have paid more than she owed, the IRS will accept more taxes from anyone who is willing to pay them. Did she step and do what she claims is the right thing?
Will we ever know, or will she continue to hide the truth and mislead the American people.

PLEASE!!!! This from a Lady who had some Futures Trader make $100,000 for her overnight in Cattle Futures…I bet she didn’t turn the money down…What a Crock!…What a Hypocrite! She will say ANYTHING to get elected…She is a Total FRAUD…CAmn’t you people see how FAKE she is?

As a 60 year old Caucasian Canadian who has lived in this glorious country for over 25 years, I would dearly love to see the United States drag itself into the 21st century by electing a woman as its leader like a good portion of the planet… but not a woman who has sold her soul, integrity and sense of honour to an odious creature.
To vote for Hillary because she is a woman is as specious as not voting for her because of her gender …
How about Michelle Obama for Vice President?

Hi Jason,
The hedge fund and private equity millionaires make all their money off of capital gains and dividends, which are taxed at 15%. Moreover, people stop paying Social Security and other payroll taxes for income above $102,000. Those two factors result in some of the wealthiest paying the least tax.

What about taxing cattle futures?

Agree with Paul, well spoken remarks. I do really understand all the excitement about obama, i was young once and believed everything I heard, but having lived through the last 3 decades of history I tend to listen more carefully, and ask questions. No tax breaks for everyone who sent jobs overseas…every car company? Every bank or financial company? Any global company no longer gets tax breaks here in the US, can we make it any easier for them to send even MORE jobs overseas?

Here is what 6 years in the Senate got us from Clinton:
Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term – 6yrs. – and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law – 20 – twenty pieces of legislation in her first six years.
These bills can be found on the website of the Library of Congress, but to save you trouble, I’ll post them here for you.
1. Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
2. Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
3. Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.
4. Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
5. Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
6. Name post office after Jonn A. O’Shea.
7. Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
8. Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
9. Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.
10. Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men’s Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
11. Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men’s Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
12. Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program.
13. Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
14. Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death.
15. Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty. Only five of Clinton’s bills are, more substantive. 16. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.
17. Pay for city projects in response to 9/11 18. Assist landmine victims in other countries.
19. Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.
20. Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.
There ya go – experience counts I guess.

Why is who does what work even an issue? How hard you work has no direct effect on me. I add a modifier because it could be you are working hard to become an Oncologist. It could be that you will one day help me or someone I know. Indirectly your hard work helps pull the cart that keeps America strong. But to pit you against me to say that I’m being cheated so we must pull you down doesn’t help me in the end. Am I supposed to feel satisfied that the government got you for me? Equalized things? Our Justice system is supposed to be fair. All else is a crapshoot, as it should be. You want security? You want government to be your nanny?! You want Hilary to have your IRS file?! Well, the largest meat recall in America’s history happened this week. Another glaring example of government security. And the British rate of death for most forms of cancer is twice the rate of America’s under their universal/mandatory Hilary care. I’ll take Capitalism, Freedom and Independence first and foremost!

If Queen Hillary does not like hedge funds, then what does it say about her precious Chelsea to be working at one?
Hillary must be heartbroken!

Why does it cost 2 million dollars a year to govern me? I don’t need that much governance; other businesses that can will move to a place where they are wanted, and they will take the jobs with them. Punish employers and they will leave. Congrats. In the hedge fund industry, we employ a tremendous number of people, who in turn support their families, and they are thankful we earn as much money as we do and employ them to assists us. It is a legal, ethical, and important part of the economy; even if you do not understand it, you need not demonize it or insits that I should pay millions per year to be a citizen. Besides, what do you think we do with the money we earn? Stuff it in a mattress? Everyone we purchase from is thankful for our success — they enjoy it with us. Every account we invest in provides someone with working capital for a new business venture. Punishing our work is backwards — it defeats your goal of full employement. Have you considered what your country would look like without business success? What if you tax away every profitable business? Are you building a country of opportunity or one of failure?

Er, “neither Clinton nor Obama will ever.” Damn I hate correcting my own grammar.

No Mike, that is not correct. Yes, people stop paying Social Security taxes after 97,500 but they are not paying less than anyone. All pay 6.25% (the employer matches). The big difference is the wealthy will not be eligible to draw SS when they retire because their retirement income will be too high.
If you want the rich to pay on more of their income they should be allowed to draw it when they retire.
How about we privatize it and we get OUR OWN money and stop paying for everyone else? This would allow us to pass it on to our kids and we would all be wealthier in retirement since the marke always does better than the < 1% the gubmint gets.

Boy, talking about playing both sides – use your political contacts to get your daughter a job w/ a hedgefund and then criticize hedge fund managers.
I don’t mind that Chelsea works for a hedge fund and makes six figures. Someone’s got to do it. But it would be nice if once in a while people remembered that Jenna Bush works in an inner city public school in Washington DC and travels to Africa and Central America to volunteer w/AIDS patients.
I mean, really…can’t we finally just get all our categories right? Who are the bad guys who love the rich here, anyway?

She should sign up for the military!

Pablo, ever seen how sausage is made? I’m guessing that’s a comparable analogy. In any case I’m sure we really don’t want to know, haha…

Does this woman have any scrupples???
She’ll say anything and believe nothing… She was a bad 1st lady that no one loved, and she’ll be a worse pres! Kind of like having an ex-wife for a boss. Ohhhh – she gives me the creepers….

Ken Jensen, actually DIVIDEND income is taxed twice, not CAPITAL GAINS income. The dividend is the resulting income paid to shareholders after the business has paid taxes on its earnings. A capital gain is the difference in the price of a security from the time it is originally purchased to the time it is ultimately sold (unless, of course, the security was shorted – that is, sold first, then purchased back in anticipation of a price decline.)

Hillary is contradictory? REALLY? Just list in chronological order her positions on Iraq from, 1997 to present. It tells you all you need to know about Hillary Clinton.

Hillary has her heart in it. She has the will to win. She will step on anyone to win. Even her own daughter!

Idiotic. Hillary isn’t taking a “swipe” at Chelsea’s profession – unless advocating a fair tax is, suddenly, “swiping” at someone or their profession.
This is king-stupid idiocy of the very lowest order imaginable. Is Hillary a touch hypocritical, considering that she moves and breathes exclusively among the rich, many of whom are hedge-fund workers/managers, etc? Hell yes. But it’s only a touch hypocritical, not radically so, because Hillary’s saying two things distinctly here:
1. Teachers (as one example) make far too little
2. Teachers (again as one example) pay disproportionate taxes, when compared to the rich.
That Chelsea works in hedge funds means nothing in the scheme of this argument. Presumably, Chelsea could agree with her mother on these points without getting her feelings hurt. I think that absolutely could be the case. But I think it’s beyond ludicrous to state that Hillary was taking a dig at hedge fund managers, or that profession in general. Very, um, stupid, or.

Investment income is taxed at a lower rate to encourage investment. Low capital gains tax rates are a proven way to stimulate the economy and create jobs.

I work at a hedge fund, and I get taxed at the top bracket, and work 70 hours a week. I’m also in the 10% of the workforce who pays around 50% of the total taxes in this country. Screw Hillary — politicians are the worst type of hypocritical parasites.

How can any sensible person argue that liberals like Clinton and Obama support the “working people?” I have been listening to this democrat crap for fifty years and it’s as hollow an argument today as it was back then. I mean, think about it. We get up and go to a job to earn money, right? The more money we make, the better off we are, right? So when liberals tax us more and more, how the hell does that help us?

Chris,
I would disagree that this is what Hillary was referring to. Hillary pegged Hedge Fund Managers, Wall Street Investment managers not paying taxes. She is doing what Democrats have done since the days of Ronald Reagan-Demonizing hard working successful business people to look good to the blue collar worker who remains the target of the democratic party. It has to be an ‘us versus them’ atmosphere or they cant parlay the votes (or so they think).

Jaycee 56,
You fit my life style to a tee!!
Regards,
A Califorian

Remember who sent the good paying middle class factory jobs to Mexico and Communist China?
CLUE: (the Clintons!)
With NAFTA, GATT and MOST FAVORED NATION TREATY with COMMUNIST CHINA!

The top 10% or earners in this country pay 90% of the taxes.
Think what would happen if the top 10% revolted?
Also remember, the top 10% are paying for all the give-a-ways to “stimulate” the economy (read buy votes) but none of their money is going back to them.
Students out there – if you study hard and get a 3.0 and your room mate parties hard and gets a 1.0, would you be happy to take 1.0 off your GPA so your room mate could raise his GPA to a 2.0?
Welcome to the republican’s world – - -

Leave Chelsea alone. At least she works. Why are people asking about Clintons donations and favors????? It is pale in comparison of the PACKAGED donations that OBAMA snuck by.

BigA,
I really hope you were being sarcastic with her accomplishments, I really should write her and thank her for the three post offices and the two court houses she had renamed. Unfortunately she blocked all my e-mail addresses when all I do is ask her when is she going to do anything for upstate new york.

Funny. I can’t fill up my gas tank based on a “percentage of my salary.” I can’t buy medicine based on a “percentage of my salary”. And I know doctors don’t take a “percentage of salary” for their services. So talking about “percentage of salary” as if it is some type of equity measure is stupid. The fact is the Top 1% of this country contributes 80% of the taxes. Tell you what. Let’s have a real “fair” system where we take the annual budget for 2009, divide it up by the 300 million people living in the country and send everyone the SAME bill. Cost to the cost causer. You think a rich person consumes more street light than a poor person? I think not.

and how exactly does she plan to reward work more…”oh, you did some work? do you want a medal or a silver-plated cigar? no, wait, here’s a fine citizen over here who would love to give me a little extra of his tax dollars so that i can buy you that medal.”

Does no one realize that the capital gains and dividends earned by a hedge fund go to the actual investors of the fund, you know, people who take risks with their hard earned money and invest it in funds that invest it in risky companies that employ actual people and pays for their salaries. Does no one understand how investing works?

Jack Wilson-
Where do you get your statistics? As a real estate agent/broker let me explain to you that the AVERAGE real estate agent makes less than 20K per year and the average broker makes less than 50K per year. Don’t perpetuate the myth that everyone in real estate is a “Trump” millionaire. By the way most people in real estate are 1099-we buy our own health insurance, pay all our expenses, and work hard for our money. Actually lawyers are charging you $500 to “double check” all the hard work real estate brokers have put in on the frontside. Don’t single out groups of people based on the misperceptions that politicians exploit.

True to form, the Clintons would throw their own family members under the bus. It is truly amazing that this family have managed to hoodwink the feel-good-liberals in this country. I suppose it’s easy enough to do when “image” is all you’re interested in.

Nothing like throwing your own daughter under the bus for a few votes….

Since when do school teachers and truck drivers make 50k? Here in NC the starting salary for a school teacher is less than half of that. Same with my neighbor who drives a truck for a distributing company.
If our potential future president believes that the folks in these hard-working professions are actually seeing 50K per year, she is mistaken.

ALL politicians are the same. They want to take YOUR money and buy votes for themselves. The only difference between parties is that the democrats have Hillary, who knows her followers are too stupid to blink when she tells them she’s going to raise their taxes. We absolutely need term limits for every public office.

So I keep hearing about the bad economy in MI and OH, and other states. But things in Chattanooga are buzzing right along. The economy here has never been better. So why is this the case? Are some states just run poorly? Who’s running OH and MI and the other states I’m hearing about? Maybe they can learn a thing from TN, and GA and AL and NC… all states around me.

Please name JUST ONE piece of legislation Hillary Clinton has voted against, that would have profited commoners over corporations!?
None.. She is all talk and is doing all she can for her fellow colleges from, those secret societies, namely Builderburger.
I am sure they aren’t too happy Obama is ahead. At least with Hillary, McCain shall win the presidency and they shall still have direct control.
You should be asking yourselves, who backs Obama? Whatever the answer is, he is still the only one whom people can place some trust in. He isn’t dogged down in a hole, repeating and preaching what he was told to do and say. That is probably why Hillary is having such a hard time, you have to believe in what you’re saying! But as she very well knows, she shall have to be there puppet, if she wins.

dueling banjo’s anyone…………..

Clinton “took a swipe” at her daughter’s profession? Hardly. She was caught pandering to people to get them to vote for her while her brand of “family values” is demonstrably different than what she purports them to be.
Why can’t you just tell it plain, like it is? The very idea that she’d take a swipe at her daughter after the huge dustup over pimping her out for the campaign is ludicrous.

“Hillary and Obama like they know all. They are BOTH lawyers”
If Barack wins will we see Michelle Obama running in ’24?

Yeah, great stuff. Avenue Capital is a $12 billion dollar distressed asset fund. All the money being lost by banks, shareholders and those losing their homes is being made by these “vulture investors” who employ Chelsea. Why aren’t students and audiences asking her about her employer and how they make their money. Talk about exploiting this downturn for profit and doing it for the mega rich. Gotta love the Clintons…hypocrisay knows no end with them. Check out Mark Lazary, the major Clinton backer that runs the fund. Huge baker gives Chelsea a job and makes billions off of distressed investments…which means off of the average joe who is losing his home and anyone caught in this credit crunch. Why isn’t the media talking about this????

What a hypoctite! When has she ever worked a hard day of REAL labor once in her life? Waitressing or trust fund? Hell, her hardest job was trying to keep Bill’s pants on, and if that’s the record she’s going to win on, God help us all!
Speaking of which, can any pro-Hillary feminists tell me EXACTLY what makes Hillary the Feminist Candidate, other than her lack of a package? Any REAL feminist would have divorced Bill after the first 20 infidelities, not spend an enormous amount of time of money covering up for him.
What is that called when a wife engages in covering up her husband’s crimes? It is Battered Wife or Stockholm Syndrome?
Feminist candidate, LOL!

As an investment banker, we often talk about how other people with normal jobs don’t know what work is. When you go home at 5 or 6pm, we’re still at work. When you go to bed at midnight, we’re still at work. And sometimes, when you wake up the next morning at 6am, we’re still there. My coworkers and I work 90-120 hours per week (that’s 2-3 full time jobs worth of work). That’s 15+ hours per day, 7 days per week. Sure we get paid well, but we work more than twice as much as people who work “normal jobs.” We’re tired of being told by lazy politicians that we don’t work and somehow don’t deserve the money we make.

I was just thinking as I scolled down this list of posts “Look at how many supposed tax professionals, hedge fund managers, and Wall Street types are arguing over what the tax codes say and how much people pay.”
If people who devote their life to working with the tax code can’t agree on what it does and what it says and how taxes are calculated and paid, how can we trust what ANY politician says about taxes and who pays what?
I remember when Steve Forbes’ flat tax was laughed at. Maybe we should have all been listening instead of laughing.

As a general rule any state or city run by Democrats are in sad shape. We elected a Canadian socialist Governor in Michigan and it is the worst state in the union. Iknow it is not all her fault because we have lost 400,000 jobs but she has no clue on how to respond to it. She wants us to go green and work on clean energy and environmental issues.Wow that is really going to revive Michigan. Detroit is another example. And Obama, what has he done or run, or employed. I’m voting McCain because he is the best of a bad lot.

Last I checked, big government doesn’t reward hard work — it TAXES hard work. Business rewards work in the form of paychecks, benefits, etc. And if you don’t like the size of your paycheck or benies, you can quit and get a new job, or educate yourself for a higher paying job …
Hillary’s a typical class-warfare propagandist, relying on those “victims” looking for government handouts and a free ride for votes.

Someone said :gee I wonder if that is why she is hiding her financial records.”
No, the Clintons are hiding their financial records because if the ‘working class democrats’ (whom the Clintons claim to represent) discovered how much money the Clinton$ have raked in, their base would evaporate in the blink of an eye.
BTW, to that investment banker who says he works ‘around the clock’ and gets no respect… that’s because your cadre works around the clock trying to cover up the swindle of fiat money, fractional reserve banking, and false asset values.

If you want the tax system to be fair, and save the “people” a lot of money, there needs to be a flat tax of 12%.
No deductions, no tax credits, no write offs. Whether you’re a popper or a prince, you pay 12% of what ever income you make from what ever source. Period.
At the end of the year, if you work for a company, you get a receipt of the income taxes paid to government. That’s your tax filing. No HR Block, no April 15th dead line, and best of all no IRS.
The progressive tax schedule is the most anti motivational tax code that I can think of.
How many of you out there work a lot of overtime? Do you like the government letting you have that 65% of the OT money you busted your butt to earn? I get it, I work harder, longer, and I get rewarded by having to pay more income taxes. Oh, and that’s right, I get to pay taxes on that money again when I spend it too, what a deal. And the same goes for the financial peep’s. Except alot of them don’t make hourly, they get paid salary, so again, they work their butts off to get ahead, and are rewarded similarly.
If the Clintons and the Obama’s were truly for the American People, they would not be pitting the rich, middle, and poor classes against each other, they would be making the tax burden fair, for the betterment of “our” country.

There is a tax plan called the Fair Tax.
It would replace the federal income tax with a federal sales tax.
It would effectively eliminate the IRS.
Just think, no more: saving old receipts, buying tax software, tracking work miles, trying to figure out how much of you home you use for work, waiting all year to find out if your getting a refund or loosing your shirt, worrying that you filed correctly, 100s of billions of dollars (that could be in the economy) wasted doing taxes, investments based on tax shelters instead of progress, …
It would take power away from those in power, and give it back to you and I.
I think/hope we can get McCain to sign it.
I don’t think HRC or BHO would.
They call making the system even more complicated and confusing than it is now, fair.

I love hillawry
bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh

From above: Posted by: Mike | Feb 19, 2008 7:31:43 PM
“The hedge fund and private equity millionaires make all their money off of capital gains and dividends, which are taxed at 15%. Moreover, people stop paying Social Security and other payroll taxes for income above $102,000. Those two factors result in some of the wealthiest paying the least tax.”
I ran the numbers:
The hedge fund guy would pay $7.5 million in tax at 15% if he made $50 million.
Joe average employee would pay $17,500 in tax at 35% if he made $50,000.
It would take 11 employees making $50k a year paying taxes over their whole 40 year work life to equal the hedge fund guy paying taxes for one year. I think the rich deserve a discount for volume — they still pay a lot more. It might encourage them to make more! And I am not rich!

Can anyone really tell me how the Clintons have stood up for working class people?? Was it NAFTA?? Cause that sure didn’t help!!

Hillary is doing damage control. Her people are fast! I saw this morning a post by a blogger Inspired Voter outlining how Hillary’s biggest donor ($100,000+) is Avenue Capital, which specializes in distressed debt AND how Chelsea works for the company. It implied there seems to be a contradiction with Hillary’s lashing out against Wall Street and her relationship with Avenue Capital. Now, I read this. Unbelievable.

Yes, Clinton will be the first to complain about any high paid worker but in her socialist world, she will never complain about taxing them to give money away to third, fourth, and fifth generation welfare mothers to even things out in her socialist dream world.

Guess I should stop working for my company since those that employ me “don’t work”. Guess I shouldn’t vote for Hillary either since she has such a low opinion on my views of work.
But then that would assume I had thought of voting for her before all of this.
Remember Ruby Ridge. Remember Waco. Clintons fear not putting death to Americans of whom wish to reject mainstream society.

Hillary will say and do anything to become President and this is why she is a danger.
Hillary will destroy the Democratic Party Nominee for President unless it her. It is time for the Clinton’s to go and leave America to leaders that care about the people not just themselves like the Clintons.
Imagine she attacks her own daughter’s profession if it will gain her a few votes.
Hillary has proven to be inept more everyday, first blowing through $100 million, having her husband make remarks that divided the electorate, failure to pursue white males and low populated states, and now remarks on her daughters job?
Put a fork in Hillary she is done!

The smartest woman in the world is going down in defeat by her own words and actions.
Its not the vast right wing that’s doing it, she’s doing it to herself.
Now, I am very proud of my country for seeing through this evil socialist woman.

Now maybe we have a clue why Hillary refuses to release her tax returns. I wonder how much is in their which would run counter to the spirit of her remarks? Chelsea working for the Hedge Fund Friends of Bill is the kind of ironic juxtaposition the Clintons specialize in.
Hillary and Bill simply do not care what other people think or feel. It is all about them, all the time. The notion that Hillary has been working tirelessly for the poor all these years is much like the Peron’s claim that they ruled Argentina on behalf of the little guy. It is theater, not reality. Perhaps we will yet hear Hillary sing “Don’t Cry For Me America”.

In response to Ken Jensen’s question, how can a hedge fund manager making $50 million pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than someone making $50,000? Capital gains. The hedge fund managers income does not come in the form of ordinary income. Nor does Warren Buffet’s for that matter. These situations are VERY few and far between, and is just populist rhetoric used by Democrats in the pursuit of the holy grail – income redistribution. Liberals tax policy is not based on sound economic theory. It’s based on social issues. Envy. If I can’t have something nice, neither can you. Increased capital gains rates will cause this economy to sink even further. Not that many years ago there was no real alternative to the dollar. Now we have the Euro. Smart money will simply find alternatives and move money offshore. You would be a fool to start any type of manufacturing or labor intensive business in this country.
Obama and Hillary supporters. Beware what you wish for. You may get it.

Hillary is an idiot if she thinks that people in the financial services and investment professions don’t do real work. Of course her only experience in that area was when she turned a $10,000 commodity trade into $100,000 some years ago. It’s no wonder, then, that she has a jaundiced view of the investment business. Her experience was based unpon an illegal, sleazy insider trading deal.

Personally, I’m enjoying watching both of the Clintons begin their inevitable fade into complete and utter irrelevance. It couldn’t happen to a nicer couple.

EO writes:
Since when do school teachers and truck drivers make 50k? Here in NC the starting salary for a school teacher is less than half of that…..
Please don’t believe the Obama class warfare rhetoric that people are doing so poorly these days. It just not true. We have redfined what it is to be a “have not”. Yes the starting salary may be that low but, as in every profession, you must work your way up the ladder over time to achieve a higher salary. There are many teachers who make more than 50k/year. They also are paid more if they have achieved higher levels of education (masters, etc.) It also depends upon the state in which they work.
Here is the most recent salary data as reported in the Greensboro News-Record:
North Carolina’s average teacher salary is $45,149, which is $3,814 below the national average…. the state aimed to raise the state’s average teacher salary to $52,266 a year by 2008. That would be about $60 more than what is projected to be the national average that year.
So currently the national average is about 49k soon to be >50k. Not too far off. This is by no means an amazing salary but I hope we don’t place such individuals in the category of “have nots”.

Hillary Clinton would be a disaster if she ever became president. She has little, or no sense of history, economics, or anything else for that matter. Anyone who believes their own excretment doesn’t stink has simply gotten used to the smell of it.
Unlike Hillary, Obama seems like a nice guy, at least personally likable even if not particularly experianced about a lot of things. Too bad he wasn’t a conservative Republican instead of a liberal far left sort of a guy.

I make $16.50 an hr, haven’t seen a raise since 7/06 , lost all my sub-contact work $12 to $15 per yr, with the new congress, pressing tax increases on Corp……….. I give a #### about poor Chelsea, & her Commie Mother

None of the quotes there have her saying that it isn’t real work or that it is a naughty profession. All she says is that they should pay the same amount of taxes on the same amount of income.

In 1993 my brother and I pooled our money and started a business. We had a good business plan and good luck too. the business prospered and grew to 40 employees. At what point did those jobs we created become American jobs? There wasn’t ever any American but me there to figure and sign the paychecks.

It’s simply not possible for ANY Clinton to produce something productive, much less Chelsea – the spawn of Webb Hubbell and Howdy Doody.
She’s a fake, a fraud, a phony placeholder just like her parents – simply kept in place for some kind of access to others.
When, oh when, will our noble country finally be rid of slime like the Clintons?

Bottom line is “who do you trust”? and America is answering, anyone but a Clinton.

Hey Hill…
Does a trial attorney making millions a year do “real work”?
Does a politician making millions a year shilling corporations do “real work”?
Does an actor making millions a year do “real work”?
Does a ball player making millions a year do “real work”?
Damn fools….

Chelsea Clinton works for a Hedge Fund Group? Now I don’t know exactly the kind of work she does, but if she’s a working stiff like everyone else, then shouldn’t she report to work every morning instead of running around the country trying to gin up support for her mother failing campaign?
Chelsea was brought into the company solely for her name and I’ll bet the girls never worked an honest day in her life.

Hillary or Barack Obama, no difference. Both socialists / Marxists that want to punish and stifle free enterprise and business, steal their money and yours to give it to their unproductive voter base to keep them dependent and Democrat, and grow the size and power of the federal govt. Hillary just has far more experience at being a lying crook than Obama does. Give him time, He will catch up with and surpass Mrs. Bill Clinton soon.

You’re pretty dead on, Mike. That’s my way of thinking… averting this disaster named Hillary. What concerns me, however — aside from McCain’s wobbly vital signs — is just who he’ll tap as a running mate. I’m hoping it’s a woman, a real woman, and not the Dem mythical creature that one go away until a wooden stake is driven through her heart… which may be harder to find than McCain’s pulse.

Had Chelsea not been the daughter of Bill and Hillary Clinton, she never would have gotten that six figure income job right out of graduate school.

Hillary isnt standing up for anyone..she’s trying to get elected, just like every other candidate…
talk is cheap during a campaign…
democrats, you have the choice between a great talker who is green and will make lots of mistakes out of exhuberance and inexperience, and a candidate who hilariously plays the experience card, even though im searching for something she has been successful in that remotely qualifies her for the presidency…
if the USA was a fortune 500 company and these two sent their resumes in to be the CEO, i doubt they’d even get an interview, much less get hired

daveednyc ,
Correction – Please, I don’t want Hillary back in NY.

Who would you suggest we vote for then, Jim? A Republican? No thanks buddy, I’m voting for Sen. Obama because voting for McCain is giving 4 more years to Bushy and I’d rather have a revolution instead of that, lol Yeah, thanks again, nice try.
Sure, Marl I’ll tell you what “change” you can expect. Less money for war and more money for our American people for college, healthcare, infrastructure and maybe we can even help some people to keep their homes that are being repossessed…..oh, and the best change of all is the “smirking chimp” gets sent packing, how’s that sound?

Wow.. talk about Bush Derrangement Syndome.
Sandra,
You know that Bush is not running for reelection right?
McCain = Bush? I dont think so.

If Hillary is serious about helping people that do the “real work” she would work to lower their taxes and reduce government spending. What she is proposing doesn’t help them, it simply put more hurt on somebody else.

when there are tough issues to address (both domestic and foreign) will sir obama vote “present” as he has done many times as an IL senator. i also noticed that many republicans are voting for him in the primary as a means of pulling him forward to face Mcain. he is just not electable in any sense of the word.

Clinton said Monday, “well in this economy we are going to have a fair tax system again.”
Did she really say “Fair Tax”? I love it! We need the Fair Tax. Huckabee and many in congress support the plan.

Who cares?!?!?

Just know this: When Hill says a “fair tax” she means raising taxes on the rich. That is fine, but she never mentions lowering taxes on the middle class. And I don’t mean a family of six making $40,000 a year. Why not make everyones first $75,000 tax free. Single, married, whatever. Now that would be a fair tax. But why should they? It is easy to sheer the lesser sheep.

hillary doesn’t care who she has to hurt, take down, or mow over to get to her objective. Her promises mean nothing – ask the people of NY. “I won’t run for president” hello, give me a break. As far as her tax break, I am sure it isn’t for the common people like us, only for those that have given something to hillary – and most of us just don’t fit that bill. I don’t hear anything about illegal immigration. This is one of the biggest reasons our taxes keep getting higher. We have to pay for all of the freebees these deadbeat illegals get. Don’t give me that they will do what we won’t. hog wash. they take away jobs from people that want an honest wage. however, I have digressed. hillary the time is now to step down graciously. can she do that? nah. it will be a blood bath if she loses the nomination. democrats have little choice, a socialist or an evil socialist. Thanks for the vent

Hillary is absolutely right! Hedge funds have got to go!!! Cattle futures are the REAL way to make a lot of money quickly. She should know… she’s had EXPERIENCE.

Posted by: Schmapdi | Feb 20, 2008 7:58:25 AM
“Sandra,
You know that Bush is not running for reelection right?”
Yes, Schmapdi they asked me that question as I was being admited to the “hospital” because I thought I was the guy on the grassy knoll, lol
You must have missed my “smirking chimp” reference from that same post. :)

Real work? Who is it that constantly attacks businesses that produce real products, new ideas and better lives for all, e.g., drug companies, Wal-Mart, on and on and on. Hypocrites, people, hypocrites.

Real work? Like that of a politician?

NY Lib: Give it a rest. As much as you’d LIKE to think that we’re all misogynists, the truth is that I’m married to an accomplished professional woman who is intellectual, and I work for an accomplished professional woman who is intellectual. My mother was an accomplished professional woman who was intellectual. My daughters are becoming accomplished professional women who are intellectual. I supported Elizabeth Dole, an accomplished professional woman who is intellectual, and Jeanne Kirkpatrick, another accomplished professional woman who is intellectual. I just don’t happen to like accomplished professional women who are unprofessional enough to enable sexually predatory husbands in order to ride their coattails to elected office. There’s nothing professional about that.

Riddle me this…How is it unfair to pay $100,000 on my $300,000 of income when someone earning $50,000 pays $15,000?

At least Chelsea isn’t feeding from the taxpayer trough. A politician has a lot of nerve criticizing anyone’s profession.

Tax cattle futures too!

Hillary working hard for the working class.. PLEASE.. Hillary only works for her own self interest.. she is a fake..will do anything to get elected..
her moto.. the end results, justifies any means to get there..
Hillary is a lying fraud! Also a Socialist.. which makes her the worst of the worst..

This is absolutely, totally amazing. I have taken the time to read almost all of the comments and to say Hillary is the most disliked and hated politician in recent history is an understatement. Finally others are seeing her for what she is like so many of us have known all along. Now that she is facing the bright light of God’s flashlight, her true self is in focus. But, will all of those who are shining the bright light on Hillary do the same for the messiah, Barack Obama? Will the false prophet be exposed before it is too late or will we have to discover under buyer’s remorse the fact that a hollow shell was elected and when his rhetoric of reaching across the aisle does not mean he is willing to compromise or involve Republicans but simply to bring them to his way of thinking?
Will he be willing to make the hard decisions when it comes to protecting this country? What would Mr. Obama have done on 9/11? What would have been his response? Get on a plane and visit Osama in his cave and ask forgiveness for our very existence? I guess his vast experience would have guided him through the maze of diplomacy. Or maybe he could have sent his advisor who is a virulent anti-Israel activist to negotiate with Osama.
I don’t like McCain but after you clear away the tons of BS from both sides, he has the least amount still sticking to his skin. Not much reason to vote for the man but at least it’s something.

lol, I remember that fake southern accent, commrealestguy made me sick. :P
sr_engineer42, you had me cheering for your post, agreed with everything you said but then you went and said those bad, naughty things about Socialists. It’s got to be code for liberal, right? :)

Kinda like John Edwards speaking out against trial lawyers…

“You men will stoop so low.” Not as low as some female presidential candidates and their former president husbands. The Clintons wrote the book on stooping low. Compared to them we are just stooping low amateurs.

Bart, I can’t see this country in a hundred more years of war, sorry can’t go with McCain.
He is hawkish and just spoiling for more war (Iran) and this country has to start rebuilding bridges that the Bush & Co. have torn down. Enemies cannot stay enemies forever. That said, Obama will go after those who have attacked our country and they will pay for all the Americans they have killed.
The point is Obama isn’t looking to start new fights or prolong ones that Bush lied to get us into.

Clinton didn’t take a swipe against her daughter’s profession; ABC has it wrong. She took a swipe against the unfair tax code, which must be reformed under Obama or Clinton if the U.S. of A. really hopes to claim that it’s a fair country.

This is rich……..a high dollar lawyer who collected bucks at the Rose law firm and from the board of Walmart attacking hedge fund weasels for their lack of real work. Oh, excuse me …I forgot she did real work when she interned at the admitted communist led law firm in california that was defending the Black Panthers………now that’s real work.

I’ve worked on Wall St., plus observed Ms. Clinton as a First Lady and Senator. She’s got it backwards. Politicians are the ones who don’t perform “real work”. Further Clinton has never performed an honest day’s work either.
Funny how Clinton doesn’t even understand the industry she’s ripping on (a.k.a. “Hedge Fund Dealer”). Whatsup with that? They’re not “dealers” Idiot.

I guess making big bucks from trading cattle futures ala Hillary qualifies for big taxes. Hillary plans on taxing herself. Once again you have the rich overseer Hillary promising the little people to tax the rich in return for the little people votes. How simple !

Hey Mikey – Yes, capital gains and dividends are taxed at 15% and people do stop paying Social Security etc at $102,000. But you are 100% wrong when you say that some of the wealthiest pay the least tax. Obviously, these people max out their SS tax, which is double what most people pay. But here’s a tough math question for you: What’s 15% of 50,000,000? That would be $7,500,000. Did you pay over $7,500,000 in taxes last year? Sounds like a lot more than most people pay. The TAX RATE is not the same thing as TAX LIABILITY.

Obama now has a 14-point lead over Hillary in the national polls, and beat Hillary by 17 points in Wisconsin.
This is not 1992.

these Clintons never seem to amaze me
they want to take down anyone who makes and income, including corporations..
I thoought we lived in America…
FREE college, FREE healthcare..etc
where does it end..???
they want to tax us all in to oblivion
it is nice when you can try to win an election by promising the world, with EVERYONE ELSE’S MONEY!!!!

What Hillary is pointing out is that many on Wall Street receive their compensation in the form of Capital Gains, which has a lower tax rate than the honest workers who receive a salary which is taxed at higher Income rates. She is right to point out this swindle of the American people and to propose raising taxes on the cheaters. It figures that it takes a powerful woman to point out something so obvious.

Hillary stands up for working class people? what has she done? Has she actually started a company? Provided jobs for them? Use her own money to help people out? The Clintons talk about how wealthy they are but I never hear them helping people financially. Typical democrats, they love to help but not with their own money. Don’t give me this crap that we are hard working people. Most successful business people don’t work 40 hour weeks. So if they make more money than you don’t freaking complain. You also have the same opportunities as they do. Hillary offers dependency on government which is not a good solution. Whatever happened to having dreams? reaching for your goals?
This is the land of opportunity and as a LEGAL immigrant I can attest to that. I came to this country almost 17 years ago with $100 in my pocket and worked my butt off to achieve the things I have. I didn’t need the government or hand outs. I’ve been working 60+ hour weeks since I got to this country and when you do work hard you do get rewarded. I rather have my dignity than to expect the government to give me stuff because I am a minority. No body owns you anything. You have to work and take care of yourself.

Hillary wants to TAKE the profits from Exxon and other big bad corporations. She is forgetting that these companies are made up of millions of shareholders that rely on this money for their retirement. Exxon ALONE pays as much in taxes as the bottom 50 percent pay. There would be a pretty big tax void if she did this to every company she didn’t like. She is the biggest hypocrite EVER!

What a stinking hypocrite!!! Bill has raked in over 200 million from Corporate America since leaving the White House and a large portion of it is from Hedge Funds just like this. That Bill and Hilary are the recipients of massive hedge fund money and take every advantage the tax code offers elites like themselves while she’s speaking out of the other side of her mouth on the campaign trail is exactly why she’s losing! Make a bet that the Company Chelsea is working for is headed by a Clinton friend! “You can’t fool some people sometime but you can’t fool all the people all of the time.” Send the Clinton’s and the ME generation packing America!!! Go OBAMA!!!!!
I agree with Camile Paglia who calls the Clinton’s political accomplishments slight at best. The only serious success these two criminals can be accused of is stuffing their pockets and they’ve done that better than any politician that has ever lived!

Note to NYLib–
Mutual fund and hedge fund managers receive salaries and bonuses, NOT capitol gains. Some of their compensation may come in the form of shares but the capitol gains they generate are for their investors. People like you.

“I have people in New York working on Wall Street as investment managers, as hedge fund executives.”
No Hillary, they DON’T work for YOU. And THEY NEVER WILL since your toxic carnival show is heading off the cliff.

“In 2006, Chelsea scolded her mother for telling an audience that young people “think work is a four-letter word.” Clinton said daughter Chelsea called her to complain, arguing she does work hard and her friends work hard. Clinton later said she apologized to her daughter.”
When’s she going to apologize to the rest of Americas “young people”.

Her hypocrisy knows no boundaries. Avenue Capital, where Chelsea works, is run by Marc Lasry. Mr. Lasry has contributed and raised substantial sums for Clinton’s campaign from this purported inadequately taxed business sector.

NYLib:
YOU’VE spread more poison around this morning than all other posters put together. No elections were stolen. The Supreme Court (including Ruth Bader Ginsberg and Sandra Day O’Connor) upheld the validity of the vote. Get over it and take the Gore/Lieberman sticker off your car (besides, they’re both MEN… eeeyouuuu). Plenty of women supported the decision to go to war in Iraq and plenty of mothers support their sons (and daughters) who are over there trying to establish peace. Maybe you’ve forgotten the stories about Saddam Hussein and his sons maintaining “rape rooms.” If ever a man deserved to be taken out, it was him. No oil has been stolen to my knowledge, otherwise I shouldn’t be paying $3.00/gallon at the pump. Finally, plenty of women have “enriched their cronies”, not the least of which is YOUR CANDIDATE.

I see now. Men enrich their cronies. Hillary will change that. The cronies will enrich HER.
Got it…

ok, NYLIB, you’re obviously just trying to get under peoples skin. If you truely believe the things you are writing, I honestly would recommend therapy. What is the difference in your brand of sexism over a male who doesn’t believe a woman is capable of handling a job? There isn’t any! You just justify Your prejudices by claimin to be opressed. That is the problem with our world today. Everyone is a “victim” of some form of oppression. Get over it! Work hard and prove yourself. Don’t sit around wringing your hands waiting for someone ELSE to come fix all you woes. If you are truely a strong woman, there is no excuse for being a victim! Get over your hatred of men….that might be a real good place to start. You can never survive in a busiess environment if you cannot get along with the opposite sex. We would NEVER tolerate your swexism in my business.

Maybe it just goes to show you how much Hillary is NOT in touch with reality or her constitutes.

This is all politics as usual, say what you think people want to hear. I live in WI and I know people switched to Obama because of the negative ads.

Lets be clear how hedge fund managers are paid because there is a heck of a lot more taxes being shelled out than people think. They earn a fee for assets under management (typically around 1-2% and sometimes even less). This pretty much takes care of the expenses such as overhead, support staff and very expensive research capabilities. Not much left over so little tax is paid on this…Then there is the carry. This is typically 20% of the profits above a hurdle profit rate of return for the fund’s investors. Assuming that a hedge fund actually makes money, capital gains within the fund have to be paid at a rate that is determined based on how long the investment was held (not just this 15% crud people are freely throwing around).
What are the rules for capital gains? If an investment is exited within one year (which is not untypical of trading stock markets, currencies, futures, OTC derivatives and commodities) then capital gains will have to be paid at the MARGINAL TAX RATE, which is much higher than your average 50k Joe pays.
Beyond one year it is 15%.
While the founder of a hedge fund might have a lot of his or her own personal capital at risk in the fund, the majority of the professionals are paid handsomely through the carried interest as normal salary / bonus. They pay their taxes at their marginal tax rates, which I would venture to guess is much higher than that of your average blue collar worker in Ohio.
Couple this with the fact that if hedge fund founders started to liquidate their positions in their own funds, they would be signaling to their customers that they didn’t have a whole lot of faith in their investments which pretty much ties up their capital.
In summary, not only are capital gains taxes paid by the owvers of these funds, but the employees who run them also pay huge amounts of personal income tax at their own marginal tax brackets!

PUHLEEEEEZE. I’m so tired of HRC spouting this nonsense. I love how she tries to portray herself as some down-to-earth, you-and-me, regular middle class gal when the truth is she’s benefited greatly from these awful, terrible Wall Street types she’s now trying to crucify. How much did she cry about these awful Wall Street types when she invested in cattle futures back in the 90s? How much is she crying now that Bill’s about to cash out of Burkle’s Yucaipa Cos. investment? He’s schedule to get like $20 million out of that deal. At least she’ll have some cash to console her when she’s sitting at home counting her millions when she loses the nomination. Maybe by that time we will have re-written the tax code and she and Bill can pony up some of the cash they’re raking in now to cover “their fair share.”

NY Lib:
“Fortunately, we women won’t have to rely only on the courts for Justice once we have a woman leading the Executive Branch.”
Where do you plan to get your justice? A dictatorship? A monarchy? If elected has Hillary promised to fire all male federal prosecutors and replace them with women, preferably bitter divorcees?

NYLIb- “Hillary has admirably represented NY State in the US Senate.”
Uh, the state is the people, not the lump of land we live on. Steadily diminishing population notwithstanding.
She certainly represents the locals in upstate well. Good thing each and every time she was present in the senate to vote down a military budget. This way she can ‘save the day’ by keeping Niagara Falls airbase open even though it was being closed due to her voting record.
I’m still waiting on her promise to bring 20,000 jobs to upstate- that part of NY that you people down in NYC don’t seem to think exists.
Then again, NY State has been shorted for years on federal funding for healthcare, and she hasn’t said a single peep about that. Gotta wonder how somebody pushing for nationalized healthcare would let that fall off the map.

A blue collar worker with two kids has to make almost 40000 a year before he will pay one dime in federal tax. Every dime witheld from his check will be refunded when the exemptions and child tax credits are figured up. The more children, the more money you can make and pay no federal tax. There isn’t any hedge fund manager paying 0% taxes. This is the biggest LIE and so many stupid americans believe it everytime Hillary says it. I am more convinced then ever that this country is in real trouble because most americans are just plain stupid. Hillary and Obama are counting on that stupidity!!

I have spent most of the day off and on reading the comments posted here. Some of them are very well thought out and informative, others are, well nothing more than drivel and bs.
NYLib I just have a couple of questions for you: What year of college are you currently in and what is your major?
Ok, here is my take:
If Hillary gets in the WH, we are screwed period. National Health Care will destroy our Health Care field. Do you really want beaurcrats deciding what treatment you need or what meds you need to take? Thats what will happen. As one poster mentioned earlier about the VA Health Care system, it sucks in general. I am also a disabled vet, not 100% but enough that I had to deal with the local VA Clinic and Hospital enough to realize that my disability payments are NOT worth jeprodizing my health over. There are some good VA Hospitals, I have been to one when I lived in a diff state, but overall I would not send my worst enemy to the VA for anything.
Also if you think about it, how will she OR Obama pay for all of these new “programs” that they are promising??
TAXES will skyrocket, oh and dont even try the ending the war meme, because once you do that, what are you going to do with all of the veterans that will end up getting out of the service beacuse they are no longer needed??
Where are the jobs for them to transition to in order to support themselves or their families? You cry about high unenployment now, watch what happens if that would come to pass.
McCain is definetly NOT my first choice on the Republican side of the Aisle but he sure in the hell beats anything the Dems have to offer. I just hope and pray that McCain brings onboard a good and strong VP to help him out.

The Clintons, especially Hillary, never did ANYTHING for the working class people. Regarding her “talents”, the only real talent she posses is brainwashing millions into thinking she is not a crook. If Hillary is elected, she’ll screw up Healthcare even worse than she did during her first presidency (excuse me, I meant “Bill’s” presidency). I’m sure we can expect another few hundred pardons as well. Hell, she’ll probably pardon Osama Bin Laden.

Are you people blind? Hillary Clinton does not have one ounce of dignity. She has no soul. She has never stood up for anyone. She has never been a leader. She is not for the working class or anyone else. She is for herself and will do or say anything to get a vote. It boggles the mind that there are real people who would knowingly vote for her. Unbelievable. Keep drinking the kool aid. Problem is Obama and McCain are not much better. It is a real shame this is the best we can do at the Presidential level.

NYer,
When she says: “we have to reward WORK more,” what do you think she meant by that? Particularly when she contrasts it to the investment managers of her home state.

Clinton is an idiot. She didn’t work as a First Lady, didn’t work (or even live in the state previously) as a NY senator, and now is bashing those that would employ her family and back her campaign. Politicians like her are the reason this country is becoming a 2nd rate nation. Everyone wants handouts and wants the hard-working and educated people to pay for their subsidies. Truly pathetic.
I have to agree with some of the comments above regarding investment bankers. Just to get where they are, they worked their asses off and performed at a high level through high school, college, and business school. Now that they are where they are, they are working double and triple the hours that most Americans do, often at a more intense workplace with higher pressure and risk. The rewards are justified, considering everything they sacrificed and achieved to get where they are, and now the politicians and the lazy want them to pay a higher tax and continue subsidizing others’ lifestyles?!?!
We need a FLAT TAX RATE! Only then will this country become a world class power again. In this scenario, the upper class will continue fostering a high achievement atmosphere, making investments and capital improvements, employing people, and supporting the arts and local community. The lower class will realize their handouts are done, and will now receive their “fair share” of what they put in.

She’s just irritating. I get the feeling every time I see her in public that she is just trying too hard to show Bill he was wrong and can win. Chelsea is a deer in the headlights. She makes the Bush twins appear coherent.

Did NYLib actually describe Spitzer as trustworthy? Spitzer is a joke, a thug, and one of the slimiest people ever to hold the top job in NYS.
Spitzer’s own party-man Andrew Cuomo (NYS AG) launched an investigation into Spitzer’s use of the NY State Police to monitor and threaten political rival Joe Bruno…that’s trustworthy???
NY Lib — Get your facts straight.

I have always loves this…….
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it
would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every
day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the
owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good cu stomer s, he
said, ‘I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks
for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. What
happens to the other six men – the paying customers? How could they
divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted
that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would
each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested
that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same
amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh h now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued
to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to
compare their savings.
‘I only got a dollar out of the $20,’declared the sixth man. He pointed
to the tenth man,’ but he got $10!’
‘Yeah, that’s right,’ exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only saved a dollar,
too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!’
‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man. ‘Why should he get $10 back
when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!’
‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!’
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill,
they discovered something important.
They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the
bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our
tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most
benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being
wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might
start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

My wife’s great grandfather worked 200 acres with a team of horses. Or friend now works 2000 acres with a John Deere that sensors both soil moisture and chemical composition. So who works or worked harder. Also assume a billionaire only pays 15% in taxes what does he do with the rest of his/her money bury it in the ground or buy a number of expensive cars as do NBA players? Get a grip people.

In response to those complaining about the reference to a teacher making $50K . . . according to a recent study by the American Federation of Teachers, the average national income for teachers is $47K. Lower for someone just starting out in rural NC, I’m sure, but much higher for someone with 20+ years in LA or Manhattan.
Eww . . . I can’t believe I just defended ANYTHING said by that scary woman.

It seems to me that taxing spending rather than income would level the playing field for all.
Who cares what the white-collar worker earns vs. the blue-collar worker vs. retiree? Taxes would be proportional to spending.
The argument about unfair taxes would go away. Under this system, there’s no need for corporate or personal income tax. It would be a simple and fair system.
History proves someone will eventually spend the money, so there’s no need for estate taxes either.
The best ideas are so simple! It’s so easy, even a bureaucratic caveman could do it!

Beer and Taxes was a classic!!

JerryF,
I hear you man. If Hillary (or the democrats in general) didn’t have illegal workers or dead people, they might lose up to 15% of their voting public :)

Monicas ex-boyfriends wife also granted a federal earmark of $303,000 for a needle exchange program and condoms for prisoners. That was one of 261 earmarks according to Citizens Against Gov’t Waste for 2008 alone. Most if not all of the earmarks were in return for campaign contributions.

If Hillary has all this “experience” of 35 years…then why did she vote for the war into Iraq. She can’t say if I would have known then what I know now, that is a lame excuse. Her 35 years should have kept her from making that mistake…OH wait she voted on it because if it went good she could have that in her back pocket for when she ran for president…if it went bad should could just blame it on someone else. She voted for the death of thousands as a gamble to look good on foreign policy if Iraq turned out, because she had zero understanding of the middle east/southwest asian theater otherwise. Just incase it went well she could hold that up as an appeal to the hawks…….

Apparently, the ignorance of what a hedge fund actually is and what people do to run them stretches from the top down.
The terms “hedge fund dealer” and “hedgefunder” have no meaning at all and yet, nearly a day goes by after the original article was published, during which time the misunderstanding is perpetuated through misguided commentary before someone finally has the sensibility to identify this (20-Feb 10:11:46a)?
The media fuels these misperceptions in part, because its members also fail to understand, and worse, lack the initiative to do the work to clarify / editorialize these bogus characterizations.
Before spewing / perpetuating ignorance, get your facts straight, people and educate yourself on a growing industry that represents the last frontier in this country, where young people who are smart, driven and willing to work hard, can actually still realize the American dream without having to pander to the obsolete rules of baby boomers employed at underperforming corporations.

Nearly a decade of Reaganomics is what fueled the 90′s boom. Anyone who has lived long enough would know that it takes years to feel the effects of policy. Reagan’s tax cuts, his re-affirmation of Volker and appointment of Greenspan made it very easy for bubba to ride a perfect surplus storm. Clinton paddled out to a good wave during the right swell.

LuxoCrat: Last American frontier of what? Nowhere do you mention actually DOING anything other than making tons of money. If you start making tons of money but you’re not actually making a product or selling a service then you are creating a bubble. Like the mortgage one that just burst. Baby boomers didn’t invent the rules of supply and demand. Like the rules of physics, I don’t think those rules ever become obsolete.

I would truly like to hear a sensible side to the argument for voting FOR the worst excuse for a presidential candidate I have seen in many a year!!
I know how she got where she is-we can’t figure out how someone could stay with a man who,by his own confession,chases any woman he can for the pure sex of it-then comes home to “roost” . We sort of expect that from respectable chickens-but God planned for people to do better and when they don’t-they WILL pay-even Bill and Hill!!!!

Hillary. What have you ever done?

All these posts prove one thing. She is the most despised woman in America and absolutely unelectable. I hope she weasels the nomination out from under O and shows her true colors to all you non believers out there.

A worker earning $50 million pays a much higher percentage of earned income in taxes than someone earning $50,000. Furthermore the vast majority of taxes are paid by the very wealthiest earners. Sen Clinton’s claim is a deliberate falsehood probably designed to raise class envy.

I wonder if that same standard applies to members of the Wal Mart Board of Directors. Hillary is such a liar and hypocrite people need to see through her phoney rhetoric.

Why should a person that makes 50 million pay a larger percentage of their income in tax than someone who makes 50k a flat tax is the fairest tax of all.

I think ALL the candidates are repulsive. Socialists and RINO’s.
I am pretty discouraged at the choices.
Obama is sooooo liberal! Leagalize Marijana? Is this for himself? When he talks issues, his ideas are SOCIALIST, radical, BIG GOVERNMENT, High taxes, steal from the rich, give to the poor.
Hillary- Populist, FAKE & we’ve already had enough of Bill. Her statements in this article make NO SENSE! The people in the high tax bracket pay what 36%? and how much do the lower income wagers pay…. not 36… I’m thinking half that.
McCain- RINO
Huckabee-BIGOT
DISENFRANCHISED VOTER

A lawsuit has never solved anything. But to make someone smile with a check in their hand (that they didn’t have to work for). OOOHHHH, no wonder you’re a liberal. It all adds up now.

Rob, I think you’re right but its fun.

Yeah why can’t that Chelsea get a real job as a dirty crooked politician like her parents.
And unlike her parents, at least she didn’t leave a wake of dead people in her path…not to my knowledge anyway.

AILEEN – You really think the problem with Hillary is that she’s a woman? Have you read any of the above comments? She is hated because she is evil, phony, corrupt, incompetent and a pathological liar who will say and do anything for power. Get a grip and stop being so sexist, you’re not helping women and neither is she with her vile blubbering. As a woman, I’m embarrased by her.
I have the misfortune of having her as my Senator but not for long. I’m bailing on this nanny blue state like so many other taxpayers who are tired of enabling welfare mutts. Blue states have the highest taxes in the Union and it’s no coincidence. 1.5 million TAXPAYERS left NY last year alone.

How does taxing hedge fund managers more help the middle class?
This is like burning down a mansion to give shelter to the homeless.

Hmmmmm…term limits? flat tax? Sounds like reform or real change. Isn’t change the Dem buzz word? They only want to increase government control as change. Most saps don’t even understand that concept. Make you more dependent and then use the threat of Republicans taking it away to win votes. We should have 2 agencies disolved before anymore are created..but how would the Dems “create” thousands of jobs? Sad state of affairs we have come to.

How absolutely blind or ignorant do you have to be to still believe that the problem with Hillary is her gender!? I gues the same geniuses that think N.O.W. represents the best interest of women. Take the blinders off folks. I would LOVE to have a woman in the white house. Just not this witch. I want an honest, hard working, genuine woman. Not some shreeking, foul-mouthed wench that rode her husbands coat-tails, that will do or say ANYTHING to obtain power(including selling her own daughter out or, Pimping her out, I guess). If you are so blind that you can’t see through this woman’s b.s., You’re just a lost cause. You must go out of your way to not recognize the deception this woman has tossed about for her entire life. Well, if your just a blinded-with-rage man hater( I will refrain from names here), you could pull it off. Right ladies?

I have yet to see or hear one person come forward and say, “my life has changed for the better because of either Hillery or Obama”. Oh, buy the way this free health care is not free unless we are all going to return our AMT refund checks and I don’t see that happening any time soon

Wow!
Chelsea sure looks old in that picture.
She’s gonna look like the Grinch’s grandmother before she turns thirty.

Why do Democrats demonize every hand that feeds them?

I keep hearing the Clinton’s talk about Obama’s lack of experience at the federal level. What was Bill’s path to the White House? Was he in the Congress? Did he have any experience with foreign affairs, etc? Help me, I can’t remember.

I would be tickled to death to see the Clintons heading into sunset. The investigating reporting of Hillary’s misspeaking is a big joke.

Clinton and Obama are essentially the same. -Big government advocates using class envy to leverage a policy of wealth redistribution. If either gets elected, I hate to see what this country will look like 10 years from now.

I’m no Clinton supporter, and perhaps I’m a bit dim but I’ve read this article five times now without seeing a quote from Hillary saying that investment bankers are not doing ‘real’ work. I guess since it is a ‘blog’ you can get away with making stuff up.

Admit it, in the first place, the majority of her voting base doesn’t even pay taxes, how are they going to be able to calculate an outright taxation lie ?
Have you really eyeballed the people sitting behind her during her speeches ?

Where does George Bush get the millions from that he is giving away in Africa ? where does the nine billion a month come from to finance Iraq ..how many more billions for the Taleban and don’t leave out how many billions go to Israel, and on it goes …a hedge fund manager ( not Chelsea ) can early twenty million and more a year, sacked CEO’s can walk away with thirty million, George Bush will retire to Texas soon, his accountabilty is left for his predesessor, where is Donald Rumsfeld ? what did he leave with, the dollar will soon be fourth world paper money if America does not wake up to a reality check. Give Obama a chance, it may be the best thing that can happen to you.

Maybe Mrs. Clinton can include references to Cuba and the success of socialism there when she talks about redistributing wealth.

Clinton and Obama are true to their words when it comes to Big Govt, and Hand outs. A flat tax would be nice a 25% tax cut across the board, I mean rich people can afford a tax cut and so can everyone else,its not the govt fault if someone doesnt try to improve their life and get a education, get a good paying job through hard work, military is a excellent place to start at 18 if a kid doesnt have a goal, playing x-box all day is a waste people who are successful are the ones who get up early and go make a living a honest one by using their God given rights to be whatever they strive for. Im a Plumber and a good one I work 5 days a week 40 hrs and make great money honest money their are jobs out their just some people feel Big Brother govt needs to hand it to them and they are lazy. Socialism will never work people lose their soul when they feel that they are not worthy, and have some self respect to earn money and give their family a good life.My friends America needs to get our people to work and be productive and make our country a great place to live and send corporate America a message that we Americans can do the jobs that no one will do? and we as America stand as a fore father stood up against the idea that Royalitys have the power and they know whats best for us!!! God Bless this great America and all of you.

“Never interrupt the enemy when he is httmaking a mistake.”–Napoleon Bonaparte.

How dare she!!!??? Why did she come to NYC in a land full of people that don’t do “real work”?? The carpetbagger that she is, come to NY, lives in a multimillion dollar home in one of the wealthiest places in the country and then bites the hand that feeds her? She makes me ill and I’m so embarrassed that she represents my state. I am so surprised at the number of people that don’t see through her crap.

Dear Sir,
I’m the gentleman that Senator Clinton pointed at when she campaigned in Madison, Wisconsin on February 18, 2008. I was wearing a purple shirt and since the hedge fund dealers got us into the subprime mortgage mess, they should be talked about which I have since Rep. Tammy Baldwin has been in office in Wisconsin and she was on stage with Senator Clinton earlier that evening along with our State Senator Jon Erpenbach who I also know. Senator Clinton would make a great president.
Yours truly, LaVern

Actually, people in the higher income levels do pay much less in taxes because there are so many more deductions we can take and ways that we can get around giving the money to Uncle Sam. I am in that higher level. And I pay a lower percentage rate now as a VP than I did when I was a secretary.
I can Incorporate and take even more deductions that way or pay myself as an employee, give myself $70,000 non-taxable for my SEP-IRA retirement account every year, I can pay each of my children $20,000 per year as employees and then invest that money for them. Since they are employees, portions of their computers, vacations, are deductable. I can deduct rental properties and portions of my vacation home.
So even though I may pay a larger total tax amount than someone making 1/50 of what I do, I pay a smaller percentage rate because I can deduct so much off the top.

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