Fla. Democratic Party Proposes June 3 Primary Plan

I think Hillary is being generous by suggesting they re-vote. The Florida delegates should be seated with the votes that have been cast. All the candidates names were on the ballot, and none of the candidates campaigned in Florida as was the agreement. Oh, wait, I forgot that Obama ran those commercials on the cable channels in Florida…

Not true Saraz: If Obama had won, the delegates and votes still didn’t count. A do-over is for the voters of the state of Florida. Mrs. Clinton cannot help that Florida overwhelmingly voted for her over Obama.
This is the only fair way to resolve this issue.
I am looking forward to seeing what Michigan does, especially since Obama ignored them in the first election.

There you go again! Blaming Clinton for all evils including fighting for the right of the people to vote and be counted. Whether this favours her or not, Democrats will lose in Nov. if they fail to act on MI and FL.

This long primary process benefits Hillary. Mr. Obama is like a huge bright fireworks display. It bursts in the night, and all the lookers go Oohh , Ahhh and then it burns out fast and people go about their business, barely remembering what the fireworks even looked like the day after. Meanwhile Old Hillary trudging along stays in the public eye, and finally captures the nomination at the convention.

Obama should be thanking Ferraro and both of the Clintons for all the hard work and sacrifice they have done in the interest of human rights and civil rights for people of all races. Their work contributed to the possibilities and opportunities he has had including his run for the nomination. He should be embracing the wisdom to speak out and face hard facts. He should denounce and reject any lack of cooperation his camp is exhibiting that leads to disenfranchising the rights of all voters of all races in all states. In fact, he should fire Axelrod and Plouffe!

FLORIDA RE-VOTE, this is a train that cannot be stopped. Howard Dean has indicated that he wants to see the Florida delegates seated, he has not publicly opposed a re-vote, and he knows that Florida can’t be disenfranchised. Given this permissibility, it really is the state’s call on how they want to conduct an election, not the candidates. OBAMA’s camp may attempt to fight this one, but they will lose and Obama will look considerably weaker as a result. This is great news for HILLARY CLINTON.

It is completely within the rules for states to make a request to the DNC to be seated. So, a re-vote is completely legit and not an evil plan concocted by the Clinton machine.
There have been many people working on finding a way to have a fair and equitable re-vote in Florida and I hope that the Obama camp is willing to be a part of the SOLUTION.

reaganfan – whatsamatta? worried that our boy Mac might have to go up against Clinton instead of Obama now?

LOM, don’t forget the 25 Super delegates that come with a good size win for Hillary. If she can pull off a 10 point win in Michigan and a huge PA victory, she is right back in this with more states and momentum to go!

Hold the phone amigos… just to be accurate in the numbers game… remember the addition of FL and MI doesnt just include more SDs… it changes the 2025 to a higher number… LOL

DC voter speaks the truth, I think it goes into the 2240 range?? not sure, anyone know??
As far as Gore and Edwards, I really think they will wait until the convention to see the final vote tabulations. Kind of playing it safe, but I think if this goes down to convention, Hillary has a great chance to be named the nominee. This is something the Obama camp never gave much consideration.

Candidates no longer in the race should have endorsed by now. All those former candidates who have not lost my respect because they are obvious opportunists. But maybe they are waiting the outcome of some vetting. SDs have reasons to remain uncommitted though.

hiya so saddened… yup hypocritical isnt it?

Florida had 210 delegates and Michigan had 156 delegates prior to being subtracted from the total by holding their primaries too early. Those numbers could change, but if they remained the same that would put the total delegate count at 4,415 with 2,208 needed to secure the nomination.

good point on ageism… but of course he has already accepted he would not do well in FL for several reasons… but of course if I mention them i would be accused of being a racist LOL

tru dat Dogsoldier – except we cant blame that one on Obama or Clinton… that is the result of Tom Delay’s work combined with a state dem party that is either not wise enough to see the disparity and fix it prior to the contests in TX or is racist against the hispanic voting bloc…. i would say the latter is not true because there has been a huge push to bring hispanics into the dem party in TX for years (it was not that long ago that hispanics in TX supported republicans)… but i do remember the Delay tactic because i was still living in TX at that time… in fact i lived in a heavy republican area and they were quite vocal about the effect of the redistricting on the dem delegate allocations… their take was: dont worry about the black voting bloc because it is concentrated in areas we can drown it out with white vote recruiting… the redistricting is needed becase we dont have a lot of white voters we can recruit in south and west TX… the excuse Delay gave was: since the majority of voters in TX are republicans, we need to redistrict so that republicans can represent each district (ruled unconstitutional since then)… impact? an attempt to ensure TX stays red in Presidential elections

Senator Obama plans on using John McCain’s age against him in the general election. His suppressing elderly votes in Florida would be used against him. It would be a good reason for John McCain to select Charlie Crist, Florida’s governor, as his VP.

Chip – he CHOSE to make a national buy… he knew they would run in FL because he asked one of his supporters at the DNC if it was ok… she told him ok but it was later determined to not be ok with some of the other DNC folks… then the whole thing was swept under the rug because the FL votes would not be counted at that point in time… so to say he did not knowingly campaign in FL is simply not true… he knowingly bought national ads intead of ads limited to the states allowed on purpose… he cant claim it was a money mgmt issue… he has had more money than any candidate… nice try no cigar

If Clinton is so sure that Florida is in her pocket, why not have the vote? That she completely flip flops on her position on the primaries from prior to the results is laughable. Had Senator Obama won those two states she would be adamantly against seating them at all. She knows that she will lose if there is more voting. She knows that if Obama goes in and campaigns he will gain ground, he will win Michigan and make it a very close contest in Florida. Clinton is trying desperately to not go 0 for 3 into the convention. She has not won the most contests, not won the most pledged delegates, and not have the popular vote. Should she go into th convention with that record and still somehow win over enough super delegates to get the Nomination, she will not win the General election. John McCain will hammer her and the Democratic party with that until election day. If she loses, look for her to be offered and possibly accept the Republican nomination for VP (not as ridiculous as is sounds)she is close to McCain on many topics and the bottom line is that Clinton’s want to win and they are not deeply invested in how they do it.

Clinton states – “In my view, there are two options: honor the results or hold new primary elections.” Since the Florida and Michigan legislatures have both stated unequivocally that they cannot afford a new full blown primary, and that the agreed upon rules state clearly that the existing vote does not count, it would seem that the Clinton Campaign is ready to reject any other option. The Obama Campaign wants it to be secure, which is not an unreasonable request.

I think this’s the best solution available and it seems fair to both candidates. We all know delegates in Florida (and Mi) have to be seated eventually and i think this’s the right way to do it.

No WAY the Super Delegates back Clinton now. After Ferraro”s unbelievably racist remarks, after she went on GMA, then Nightly News and actually had the unmitigated gall to blame it on the Obama campaign and feebly attempt to play the victim, Clinton STILL did not apologize; worse yet, her campaign actually tried to spin it. In fact, as it is now starting to come out, Ferraro said the same thing in 1988 about Jesse Jackson. She said it again on Fox radio weeks ago, then the newspaper interview, and still she did nothing to stem the tidal wave of Hate.
This is scorched earth at it”s absolute worst. I”ve never seen a campaign willing to systematically marginalize an entire ethic group just to get nominated. Now that this has reached Defcon 1, she STILL didn”t apologize.
As I said, there”s no way the SDs will go for her now. It would be the end of the Democratic Party. If she has an ounce of integrity left, for the good of the Party, for the good of the Nation, and for the good of Humanity, she should quit this race now.

Are you people SERIOUS? Clinton campaigned in FL and MI – HEAVILY. She broke the rules from the beginnning! She would do anything to win this campaign and you have to wonder why a millionaire would stoop to every dirty trick to get elected to a $400K job? ANSWER: Her Husband despite the Monica debacle got rich off the government post and she is just trying to do the same. Her campaign has whined SEXISM only to play the RACE card every time. The media doesn’t like me she cries. That is because the media and most sane Americans have picked up on the fact that you (Sen. Clinton) are NOT LIKEABLE. She wasn’t back in the early 90s and she isn’t 15 years later. Anyone remember Primary Colors? If you haven’t seen that movie you might want to watch it before you put this dog and pony show back into the White House. Oh and Democrats, please don’t forget the whines and moans from her campaign ” It’s our turn ( i.e. meaning women, Hell take a page from Geraldine Ferraro and put it to you straight- white women)” and you wonder why if she gets the nomination why she will lose. And she will lose, Republicans long dead and gone will rise up and find a way to vote to prevent the Clintons from re-entering the White House. Re examine the facts and see what is really happening. Senator Obama is likeable and capable of leading this country and he isn’t doing for greed. Oh and he just happens to be a black male, which in most cities, rural areas across America is mainly associated with being a bad thing. Get over your racism America, Senator Obama told you way back in 2004, it is the United States of America and your race, gender, etc. doesn’t (excuse me, shouldn’t) matter. Remember that Democrats! You are the ones who are supposed to have the values in America, right?

Laura – care to provide your fabricated evidence? Even Obama is not accusing Clinton of campaigning in either state even though he ran ads (he admits knowlingly since he asked for permission) in FL which turns out to have violated the rules.

As a pledged delegate from the great state of Alabama, I, in the beginning, was torn over who I was to support for this election. With Edwards, Clinton, and Obama running, I didn’t really want to vote in this election. In fact, I thought I should abstain. Now, before any of you start bashing me, let me tell you something. I did my homework. I relied on what I knew, and what kind of future I wanted for my 3 daughters. In my lifetime, I realized that this is so much bigger than me. I knew how people were feeling about Hillary, John, and Barack. SO I decided to narrow my support. After much soul searching and studying, I decided to support Barack Obama. I’m not some zombie who lives with my head in the clouds. I am an American. African-American woman. I’m a mother. I am a daughter of an activist. I am a friend. I want my daughters to have a better future. I want them to be able to walk around and not worry about being ridiculed that they are from America. I want my daughters to be able to get the best education they can get and be able to get the same opportunities that any child in this country are entitled to. I want them to live in a world where they are not afraid and know that they are protected. My oldest, Angelina, is seeing history made, and she told me at 6 years old, that she wanted to become President one day. Not because of Hillary but because of Barack. Because as she told me: “I know that I am a little girl, and I know that Sen. Clinton is making history, but Mama, what about Barack? I think it would be cool to be the 1st African-American WOMAN to be President. See, I can kill two birds with one stone.”
A 6 year old little girl with dreams and aspirations to be President. Inspired by a man who is the next leader of the free world.

“It is the Obama camp that is resisting any kind of a do over so far.”
Would you people PLEASE get your facts straight?
The truth is that it is the CLINTON camp that is PUSHING for a do-over. Obama said, as recently as Tuesday night, that he would abide by whatever the DNCdecides to do, as long as whatever process that is used is fair and secure.
The truth is that Clinton was quiet as a mouse about the so-called disenfranchising of the voters in FL and MI UNTIL she didn’t wrap up the nomination on Super Tuesday. Only then, all of a sudden, the Clinton campaign started scrounging around for a way to catch up with Obama, and settled on trying to change the MI and FL rules after the fact. She supported the penalties and signed the pledge along with all the other candidates. Yet she left her name on the MI ballot (when Biden, Dodd, Edwards, Obama and Richardson and Obama took theirs off). Right this minute I’m listening to Hillary on NPR saying that Obama and the others’ taking their names off the ballot was “his choice.” Disgusting.
If you were Obama and you had abided by the rule (and he DID clear the national ad buy with the DNC, and no, there were no after-the-fact objections of changes of mind — where do you people get this stuff?), you would be objecting to counting the results, too.

I have been a resident of Florida for 15 years. Why are their always issues in Florida. Oh well despite the high taxes high insurance and now the ralestate down turn what could possibly happen next. The one thing that I do know when Bill Clinton was in office our country was united and he brought this country back on track, despite his affairs. I support Hilary Clinton 100%. She won in Florida and Michigan. All I hear about Obama is change can he be specific. Hilary I look foward to you being the next President of the United States. Chnage is on the way.

Firefighter
The problem is …statistically over and over it has been proven that people before the candidates campaign vote on Senator Clinton’s name recognition.
In almost every single state that they have campaigned (besides Arkansas) we have seen a overwhelming and dramatic change in voters once they got to know Sen Obama.
This is not a monarchy where we switch back and forth based on voters not getting to make an active choice.
Sen Clinton, if she believed so strongly that these votes should count, and is making herself look like she cares about the FL and Michigan voters
voted to not involve those voters back last year. If she thought they shouldn’t be disenfranchised shouldn’t she have fought for them when it counted for them…instead of when it mattered to her?
That is the sign of someone who I absolutely don’t want running our country.

I think Florida should be seated. So you people in Florida — sit down! :D

Geez, it’s about time we get the people of my state have our votes counted. I was initially an Obama supporter but sick of his hipocracy that rules are rules. The fact is that more than 2.5 million votes would have to be thrown away because of some stupid party boss. American votes need to count.
I keep getting more sick when I learn all the crap about Obama.

As an Obama supporter, I look forward to fair elections in both FL & MI. I just don’t like the fact that they are proposing changing the rules. If they repeat the exact same process that they both did in January prior to June 10th, I can not see any intelligent individual having an issue.
My daughter and Father-in-law both live in FL and only my father-in-law voted because of the tax issue on the ballot that day.
Also, just to be fair, all of the candidates signed on to FL & MI delegates not being seated. It wasn’t until HRC won the uncontested primaries that she found religion. Just to be clear, what I mean by uncontested is no campaigning in either state which is an obvious disadvantage to Barack Obama.

Obama sponsered a bill in the senate authorizing and promoting voting by mail, but when it might cost him some delegates, he opposes it. I guess that’s change we can believe in.

the amount of bad information by the posters is upsetting
These are the facts (check them for yourselves)
(1) Fl State democrats are the ones who proposed to the Fl State legislature that the primary be moved to Jan 29th
(2) This passed the Fl State Senate Unanimously
MYTH #1 DISPELLED:THE FL STATE DEMS WERE NOT VICTIMS OF THE REPUBLICAN ST MAJORITY
(3) When this vote passed in Fl State senate it was also passed to convert all the voting machines in the state starting Jan 30th and to be done by July 10th
(4) this means that at least 10 counties at any given time would not have voting apparatus in place to have a redo vote until mid July
MYTH #2 DISPELLED: THERE CANNOT AND NEVER COULD BE A RE VOTE PRIMARY IN FLORIDA
(5) Before the Fl State Dems approached the Fl State Senate to move up the Primary date they approached the DNC and were told NO by the DNC. That is they moved the date up before Feb 5th (earlier that March date orig scheduled) there delegation would not be seated and their votes would not count toward the nominastion
(6) After the Fl State Sen passed the moved up date, and after the DNC told them know: the Fl State Dem lead by Senator Bill Nelson SUED the DNC to allow them to move the date up.
They lost in court.
They still moved the date of the primary up
MYTH #3 DISPELLED: THE FAULT OF THIS MESS IS THE FLORIDA STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE FLORIDA SUPER DELEGATES
—————————
In August; all the presidential candidates signed and agreed that because Florida violated DNC rules and lost a lawsuit against DNC that the Florida Primary would not count and they would not campaign in Florida
————————————-
MYTH #4: Senator Obama campaigned in Florida thorugh TV
THIS IS WRONG – Sen Obama as part of a national cable tv ad buy that ran through Feb 5th (Super Tuesday) on select cable channels.
Nothing ran locally. The cable ads ran through and after Jan 29th right up to Feb 5th.
NOW LETS GO TO FACTS:
FACT #1; the biggest draw on the Fl State Primary Ballot was an amendment to the Fl State Constitution to reduce property taxes.
This is why there was a record turnout at the primary.
FACT #2: Out of the over 4 million people who voted on the property tax amendment issue: over 466,000 voters didnot even bother to check off a choice for the presidential nomination
FACT #3: More Republicans (1.9 million) than Democrats (1.7 million) voted in the Jan 29th primary.
Florida and Michigan are the only two primary states so far where more Republicans than Democrats voted in thier primary.
FACT #4: There cannot be a mail in vote as under Florida State Statute it is illegal to have a mail in vote when a nomination of a candidate is the result.
FACT #5: When confronted with this following the proposed revote – the Fl State Dem party says that the law applies to the Board of Elections and not “third parties” running an election.
WHICH BEGS THE QUESTION – WHO IS THE THIRS PARTY RUNNING THE ELECTION
Short take: there will never be a mail in vote. Not just because it is against the State Statute, but because it is physically impossible, the state of Florida does not have authorized signatures of the electorate on file so fraud possibility (and probability) is rampant.
Even rapid Clintonites Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, Kendrick Meek and Alcee Hastings as part of the Fl Congressional Delegation issued a statement that there should not be a mail in vote.
—-
The only option is a caucus.
The Clinton campaign does not want a caucus.
They have essentially backed themselves into a corner in Florida.

I wouldn’t accept this at all. June 3 .. let Florida help decide the nominee..NO.. HOW QUICK WE FORGET!!

Neither candidate should be afraid of a revote. It is within the rules of the nomination process per Dean. If any other states decide to do the same thing within the rules let them. There are likely voting discrepancies in every state. The difference is: the variance of a revote would not likely change the delegate allocation in some of the states but might change in early ones due to buyer’s remorse and dropped candidates. We may find FL and MI outcomes to not be different than if we count the 1st vote – so if it turns out to be a waste of time and money, Obama and Dean are to blame since they are the ones refusing to count the 1st vote.
Obama’s camp whines about the revote while he expresses concern and then says but he will agree to whatever the DNC decides. Clinton camp and Clinton have been consistent in saying let them revote if that is what it takes to get them counted. e can change the rules before next election to get rid of disparities if the DNC is smart (probably need to get rid of Dean for that to happen).

Sentiment, hyperbole and spin aside, there can be no “re-vote” in FL. At this late date, it is a legal impossibility. FL statute prohibits mail-in votes for nominating contests. The state Legislature would have to change the law. During the 30-day public comment period, there would be so many lawsuits filed (it would only take one judge in one county to issue an injunction), it would stop this thing dead in its tracks. The Bush DOJ would have to approve any details (good luck with that). Everyone involved knows this will never fly, but are proposing ideas to sound like they are earnestly trying to do something. It is simply pablum to appeal to the masses. The only chance for FL is either a full-on primary re-vote (also open to lawsuits) or take it to the Credentials Committee.

Kevin
What “the Law” and voting in Florida have to do with each other? Don’t they kinda make up the rules as they go along down there?
If the Dems want a do over how about a CAUCUS. This seems the easiest cheapest way to go. At a Caucus the Florida voter can just go line up for a head count. Simple.
If Florida tries to do a revote, everyone knows they’ll screw it up.

As a gentleman named “Edwin” so aptly pointed out on a different site’s board, Hillary Clinton’s specious claims of “readiness” to be president due to her years spent as First Lady, is the equivalent of Yoko Ono ridiculously claiming to be one of The Beatles.
And if you doubt the speciousness of her alleged “experience” claims, check out the new piece in Time Magazine and the recent piece from McClatchy News, each examining the subject in depth. If you’re a Clinton fan, you won’t be happy; if you support Obama, you’ll be giddy.

Obama has no intention of accepting closed primaries as opposed to open, confused, time and vote limited, public pressure caucuses.
He loves the idea of 9500 votes representing an entire state, like Wyoming.
He loves the least amount of votes, with the most confusion, forced to state your vote in public so your husband can strangle you if you don’t cooperate. He loves him some Red States.
He wants us to believe by losing every single major Blue State but his own, that he is just going to sweep along and crush McCain.
You can tell he is an amateur. Anyone idiot can tell that Kansas (hello folks, I know his mother is from there – a secularist/atheist helps her son? In Kansas?), Alaska, Idaho, N. and S. Dakota, Montana, Utah, Colorado, Alabama (where whites outnumber blacks in a general 80-20), Mississippi (ratio is 70-30 white), Arkansas (where Obama lost by nearly 50 pts!!), Oklahoma (he lost by 30 pts), Tennessee (he lost by 20 pts), Virginia (hasn’t voted Blue in decades), Kentucky (just wait and see), South Carolina (ratio is 75-25 white in a general).
This guy is going up against flag-waving, ultra-patriotic, latent racists from time gone by, gun loving, abortion hating, Islamic despising, low educated, poverty stricken simpletons. You think he is going to win this? How?
AA make up 12% of the general population, maybe 15%. Of those 15%, lets say 14% voted and all for Obama.
Don’t forget Nadar, he gets about 5% – 8%.
Know what that makes a General Election look like?
65% McCain
30% Obama
05% Nadar.
Landslide equal to or bigger than Regan in 1988.

2009 – I suppose your scenario for 2008 is Clinton 97%
Nader 2%
McCain 1%
And I suppose you’ll be backing the Clinton/Ferraro ticket. It’s not Obama’s fault he does well in the caucuses in which Clinton hasn’t really tried much to compete. She certainly could have done much better with a little more effort.
Fact is, VA could be in play, there are increasing numbers of Dem voters in the D.C. suburban counties, a popular Dem Guv (also an Obama co-chair), one Dem Senator, and a second likely in the Fall.
The Carolinas are also fertile ground for Obama to re-make the map (in spite of all the racist rednecks you may uncover). Get real, CA, NY, NJ and MA will all go Dem no matter what. Plus check the CDs in all those states as well as OH and presumably PA, Obama did quite well in the densely populated areas where the vote concentrations are. So, I’m sorry to say, but facts and statistics trump rhetoric.

Brilliant rebut to 2009, Kevin — well said. I was wondering where he/she purchased his/her *amazing* crystal ball….
As someone recently pointed out, “You are entitled to your own opinions; however, you ARE NOT entitled to your own facts.”

I have watched GMA for many many many years but I turned it over to another channel today (3/13/08) because I am sick to death of hear how wonderful Obama is in your opinion. You show all his speaches (let him talk for himself) and you show Clinton and TALK OVER her you do this all the time, you have done your best to sway the American voters and I have had enough!!!!! Fair is fair and you are not fair!!!! I will not be watching GMA Any longer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pat of Columbus, Ohio

Florida’s GOP legislature had no say whatsoever in determining when the Democrats held their vote in that state. Such a notion is completely absurd. I suppose next you’ll be telling us that the Florida GOP is accountable for the Demcrats’ proportional awarding of delegates, and the existence of Democratic superdelagates!
I stand by my original statement — that this is the fault of the Florida and Michigan STATE Democratic officials, and no one else. THEY ALONE chose the get cute by attemtpting to leap-frog other states’ voting, and no amount of bogus “scapegoating” will change that.

Nobody’s trying to “de-rail” anything, and you know it, WestCoast. Your continuous spin on these boards is making me dizzy.
All Obama asks – reasonably asks – is a fair, above-board, untainted vote, if there is to be a re-vote.
And what’s the rush, WestCoast? Why are you guys so willing to potentially sacrifice accuracy and clarity for speed? Hmm? *Both* sides must be satisfied with the process before this can go forward. Take your pack off.
Oh and when will Mrs. Clinton be releasing her tax returns, please? We’re all still awaiting a definitive date. “AROUND April 15″ is just too squishy, you know?

I am an enthusiastic Obama supporter, and I am in favor of some form of re-vote. It’s the best among a set of bad options. I say this in some attempt at basic fairness, even though it is clear that Senator Clinton is likely to benefit in the delegate count and in the popular vote tally from such a move. I think all Democrats at this point need to come together to find the fairest possible way to seat delegations from these two important states.
I regret that a re-vote will actually reward FL and MI – giving those states a possibly definitive voice in this contest, and a chance to actually vote twice – despite their injudicious descision to willfully violate party rules. I further regret that a revote may have the effect of tilting the nomination to a candidate I view as weaker, and a bad choice for the long term strength of the party. Nonetheless, I am honest enough to say a re-vote may be a necessary evil.
Furthermore I have only heard Senator Obama express willingness to abide by any solution set forth by the party, so long as a real attempt is made to be fair to all parties. Just as he has consistently expressed his willingness to abide by the rules as they were originally set. There are genuine concerns about a mail-in system (as there would be about any solution at this late date) that need to be addressed. Mr. Plouffe is perfectly right to raise these concerns and to protect the interest of the campaign in doing so. He does not say he outright opposes such a plan, only that there are serious questions about fairness that must be addressed in drafting it.
Clearly it is the Clinton camp that has shown a strong desire to reshape the rules to fit their own ends. The Clinton counter argument to this charge does not even deny it! They only reply with a weak charge that “Obama does it to”. Sen. Obama’s argument that Superdelegates should honor the will of the people IS NOT a ploy to “change the rules” nor is it comparable too Sen Clinton’s call to actually revise the established nominating process. Sen. Obama has NEVER said that the Supers should be bound to vote in any certain way or that the rules governing their voting should be rewritten. He has only ponted out, RIGHTLY, that the public expects their votes to be the deciding factor in this nomination, and the the party would alienate and disillusion huge numbers of voters if the decision is percieved to be made by insiders at odds with the will of voters. He is MAKING AN ARGUMENT to Supers in order to pursuade them to vote for him. This in no way can be construed as a “rules change.” Let’s be honest here!
What I cannot understand are the posts of many Clinton supporters, here and elsewhere, which seem to simultaneously accuse Obama supporters of blind loyalty, while blindly denying the OBVIOUS opportunism of Senator Clinton’s positions regarding the primaries of these two important states.
Senator Clinton raised absolutely no objection to the “disenfranchisement of millions of voters” last year when the DNC made the decision to actually enforce it’s stated rules and deny the FL and MI delegations their seats at the convention. She was still running at a comfortable lead and painting herself as inevitable. She didnn’t think she NEEDED MI and FL. Where was all this outrage about unfairness then? FL and MI voters, don’t believe for a moment that Sen. Clinton’s main concern is for your voices to be heard. She ONLY wants your voices to be heard because she NEEDS the delegates. The timing of her outrage makes this perfectly clear.
Sen Clinton publicly stated that she did not need to remove her name from the MI ballot AS EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE DID because those MI results would not count. She discounted that primary as meaningless while simultaneously hedging her bet by remaining the only actual name available for Democratic voters to check. Brilliant political manuevering to be sure, but just the sort of cynical move that I wish a brilliant, talented and dedicated public servant like Sen. Clinton could rise above.
Now, CLEARLY she is being disengenuous to say, and I quote, “The results of those primaries were fair and they should be honored.” I think a case MIGHT be made to seat the FL delegation based on their original primary, a flawed and very weak case since it violates well established rules (which she AGREED to) and hurts less established candidates by denying them the right to have made their case directly to Floridians before facing their decision. However, given that all the other options are also flawed, I think it might be considered. BUT, NO HONEST PERSON can now claim that the primary held in Michigan was a fair vote or that a primary delegation should be seated based directly on that vote. For Senator Clinton to even imply such a thing now is the most blatant kind of political gamesmanship, and I think Clinton supporters in this forum ought to have the guts and honesty to admit it.

Your not a patriot or believe in the constitution if you side with denying people the right to vote.

DcVoter should he also thank Hillary Clinton for her marching for segregation, because she did…

The Democratic parties in Michigan and Florida must be regarded as renegate party divisions and have been rightfully treated so by the NDP. Now, everybody is sorry about the renegate behaviour and its consequences and calls for justice for the voters. Lets start with dismissing the state party hotshots, who are responsible for this mess. Now we have a clean house, lets prepare for a complete revote without mailing vote nonsense. Give the candidates a fair two weeks time to campaign and refresh the memory of the voters. The NDP should oversee and take responsibility for clearing the mess in a fair and balanced way. Who pays the bill?? The NDP should open a bank account for national donations “Support the voters of Michigan and Florida” The balance, if any, should be picked up by the NDP. After all it is a lack of party discipline that caused this mess. Let’s have a third super Tuesday!!
Every party rule mongul will now start complaining about deadline rules and regulations etc. that can’t be met. Well, that’s too bad, change the rules!!

Unacceptable! Florida has been a problem state for years when it comes to voting. There is NO WAY they should be able to once again SCREW up voting for the rest of America.
I have friend who live there that where illegally stopped people from voting.

As I foreign national I am not an expert on US election issues. However, with all the due respect for the peole of Florida and Michigan who think they deserve to have their voices heard (in spite of obious rule-braking by the Democrat party in those states in terms of election dates), the whole issue of not being able to reach the magic 2,025 number of delegates by either Clinton or Obama could be addressed simply by lowering that number proportionally to the number and relative weight of the states that do vote. 2,025 must have been chosen as a fair and realistic number of delegates needed to secure the nomination relative to the contribution of each and every state comprising the Union. With two states not being able to take part in the process (for whatever reason) then the 2,025 figure should be revised and lowered accordingly. That seems to me it would be a reasonable and inexpensive solution to this problem.

I don’t see how a mail vote could possibly be secure. And how can you insure that the person who sent it in is the person on the mailer? This sounds way off. Voter i.d. is an important part of the process. Either Florida and Michigan’s democratic party should pay for a new primary or follow the less expense suggestion of Paulo. Lower the required number of 2025 by the number of delegates in MI and FL. And the dems there should kick out their democratic party leaders for having such a stupid idea of moving their primary up further than the National Democratic Party allowed. If the Na. Dems. allowed this to go unpunished all the primaries would be on January 2!

The battle cry for a re-do has been stoked by politicians; Florida republicans who are enjoying watching the dems scratch oneanother’s eyes out and the losing Clinton campaign that cannot win unless she can change the delegate math by seating delegates that all agreed beforehand would not be seated. Now we all will get to watch the dysfunctional democratic party in the state of Florida launch a poorly planned impromptdu election which will no doubt be a fiasco. But no matter, whatever it takes to better HRC’s campaign is worth tearing the party apart, despite the fact that it will be so fractured that she will never win the big prize she so desperately covets even if she gets the nomination. Are you happy now Hillary, would you like a pillow????

Everyone wants to lay this all onto Hillary, but by the same token, if Obama had come out on top, he would be yelling for the votes to count as well. It is pretty telling that he did not win Florida and he doesn’t want the votes to count. Makes him look afraid of losing. How can he consider himself the real front runner if all of the votes don’t count? There should be a national primary day with all of the candidates on the ballots instead of letting Iowa and NH annoint the nominees anyway. They are no more politically qualified to do it than the rest of us.
On a related topic, if it is just Hillary wanting a do-over, then why was Al Sharpton on tv yesterday announding plans to file suit against the DNC if Florida is not allowed a do-over election? It’s not about Hillary or Obama. It is about the constitutional right of the voters to vote and for their vote to be counted. It’s what this country had the American Revolution for. Howard Dean had no right to make the decision to punish the Democratic voters in Florida for the actions of a Republican Govenor and administration. It doesn’t matter who they voted for. How do you know that the vote won’t go in Obama’s favor if they revote? Only 2 million people vote in both primaries and there are over 4 million registered Democrats in Florida alone. If they all mark their ballot and send it in, there’s no telling what the outcome will be. It does make you wonder why Sharpton would be for a revote if Obama is against it. I would have thought they would be on the same page.

. Almost a year ago the states of Florida and Michigan chose to ignore the party’s rules. Theirs was not an error of ignorance. It was a direct affront to the rules of an organization.
Fast forward one year and suddenly the Clinton camp suddenly becomes full of rage at the indignities to enforce the rules.
Someone please explain why it took a full year to challenge the situation. A prudent man or woman is aware of the reason.

Valid elections always involve a campaign. No campaign no valid election.