Florida Dems Seek ‘Re-Do’ Primary

From Florida’s track record I’d say a caucus would work better. Floridians are less likely to screw it up the way they usually screw up their elections.
Anyone remember a fella by the name of President Albert G.

TCG, they don’t hold caucuses in the general election as Obama will find out in those red state he won, so why play stupid here? FL and MI deserve to have their voices heard. And boy do some of those FL folks have an earful ready for the Obama folks. They know who refused to allow their delegates to be seated. Same with MI.

Personally, I dont see why new primaries are even needed. In the case of FL, Obama had an advantage because he campaigned there by running TV ads and still lost by a significant margin. In MI, if we simply give him all the undecided votes (which were not really all his), we are giving him an advantage there also. Clinton won MI by a significant amount also.
So it appears to me that even when having the advantage in both states, the only reason he objects is because he lost.

The caucus’s are a circus. Just read about the problems in Texas they had. Have a primary and let the people vote
properly and in private.

DCvoter, how can you lose in a state where you didn’t campaign and in another state when you were not on the ballot? How can you call any such vote valid when people who knew their votes would not be counted didn’t bother to show up? there is no way the current results are valid.

Louis, let me try and get your point. You, a so called democrat, want to disenfranchise two swing state and give the republicans a two to nothing advantage even before the general begin? Just so Obama can maintain his lead? And you all call yourselves more educated than Clinton folks? Get real.

Louis – the voter turnouts in MI and FL were significant… in other words the voters made sure their voices were heard. Obama did run tv ads in FL and Clinton did not so he had an advantage and still lost. In MI, the undecided vote (all candidates except Clinton and Kucinich) could be given to Obama and he still lost. That sends a pretty clear message to me… FL and MI voters went for Clinton greater than 50% in both states.
Brenda – the caucuses in TX were not the only tainted aspect of the TX results. In TX, the delegates are apportioned based on registered Dems in the areas. In other words, areas without a lot of registered Dems but with lots of voters casting votes in the primaries get fewer delegates resulting in unfair representation in the delegate count. This was analyzed and show to benefit Obama because the areas he took (urban) have an unfair number more delegates. Even after that, he still lost TX popular votes and 2/3 of the state voted for Clinton over 50%. So her win there is actually more significant than the delegate count implies. Rules are rules but these are things the SDs consider.

Hey Derek. You say we knew the rules. True, but we did not make the decision. The state legislature did and the FL legislature is about 2 to 1 republican. We are being relegated to second class and told our votes won’t count because a Republican conrolled legislature did this to us. DON’T TELL US OUR VOTES SHOULD NOT COUNT. And by the way, we all have TVs and newspapers in FL, so when we voted it was from an informed standpoint.

DC Voter, Nice to meet you here. Hope you having fun. Just came over from MyDD where Obama’s Feb 55mil is generating some buzz. Bottomline, with that kind of money and he couldnt close the deal, infact losing as badly as he did in the popular vote, he should concede. I will win the GE on that budget. Advert dont sell bad product. On Florida/MI, i dont think we need fear a re-vote but it must be in a primary. Closed!

People, Louis is absolutely right! Everyone’s vote should count. Everyone’s! You can be sure there were voters who didn’t show up because they knew their state broke the rules.

Caucuses are not representive of the will of the voters. WA state and TX are both proof of that. Reasons relate to the limited time and the lack of secret balloting.
Obama’s voting support of students and well to do liberal lattes give him an advantage there because they can afford to take the time to caucus. Working people usually cannot caucus (the majority). Non-working people like housewives and the retired folks are often subject to peer pressure the same as college students are.
All things considered, caucuses not only do not represent the will of the majority but the Obama camp obviously uses this knowledge to their advantage and wants the caucuses to be the “re-vote” for that reason.
Caucuses are by nature not a democratic process and it amazes me they are even allowed by the Democratic party. However, the SD vote is supposed to offset the unfair aspect but of course the Obama camp does not want that to happen… yet he calls himself a democrat. LOL

I agree completely with Don – my parents live in Florida and didn’t vote because they knew it wouldn’t count. They believe in RULES. You can’t change the rules in the middle of the game. MI & FL should not be given special treatment and if the voters are going to be MAD at someone, they need to be angry with their legislators, not the democratic party. I’m sorry for those in Florida, especially my parents who deserve to have their vote counted, however, the residents of Florida should have been protesting this LONG before it became obvious their delegate votes might make a difference. Hindsight is 20/20 they say….

Oh shades of the hanging chads. Get over it and let this circus run its course. Why have the taxpayers foot another 18 million bill over something as stupid as this. It is a total waste of the taxpayers money. We could use that 18 milion to help chileren who are hungry and older folks with medications etc.

Bryan, you are slightly wrong so I will correct since you said to. LOL
The republican controlled legislature in FL with the agreement of the Florida Democrat Committee agreed to change the primary date even after the DNC said no. So the state committee was either duped or stupid but they could not do it without the legislature so that is where I lay the blame. The same is true for MI.
Of course the republicans in control of those state legislatures are refusing to fund new primaries to benefit democratic voters.
I think if there are new vote events, they should be primaries because that is how those states vote. You cannot expect to re-educate voters in such a short timeframe. The result would be less valid than the primaries already held. Perhaps some independent monies will surface on behalf of what is best for America.
I am still betting new primaries in both states will give Clinton more delegates than if they use the current results.
Hiya llulu… Clinton raised 3 mill yesterday in one day of online contributions. The MO has definitely shifted. The Reps historically outraise and outspend Dems in every race yet Dems still get elected because the majority of voters are not rich. So I dont think this hype about his 55 mill in Feb means squat… especially when we are talking about democrats left to vote being working class majorities that he tends to not do well with.

Papasangel59 you want to disenfranchise the voters of FL and ML? There will be no caucuses in the general for you to run up the score and now you want to give the republicans a two to nothing head start in those two states in the general. Boy, I’d be interested in your version of how Obama will win White House now.

Pardon me Jen I forgot to say it was nice to meet you.

The mail in ballot to all those already registered as democrats by Jan 29th is the best option. They should split the difference at 3 million each it seems reasonable.

For all those who say that FL and MI should count I ask you this. Do you think Hillary is concerned with votes counting are just votes that favor her counting? Had Obama won these states would she still want them to count are would she argue that they shouldn’t count? If she is worried about them being seated then divide the delegates evenly and that way those states still get their say at the convention. But honestly the only fair assessment is either a do over are they don’t count. That way neither candidate is punished. Without campaiging Obama would not have won any of the states he has won so it is not fair to say she would have won these states had they campaigned. She won based on name not issues. So again are her motives in the best interest of voters are herself?

Comrade Dogsoldier: DNC rules keep FL and MI out, not Obama. As you may recall, Clinton stayed on the MI ballot, saying “oh, it’s not going to matter anyhow”. And now she wants MI to count, even though she was the only one on the ballot. Even you must agree this is absurd.
If not, please, comrade, tell me all about this new Soviet system for the proletariat to express its will…

Florida and Michigan MUST be given an opportunity to be heard and counted or this election will be meaningless. THE DNC WILL RECONSIDER or ELSE Lose Democrats to the other side! This al seems pretty contrived to me, who master minded this (Slick Willey?) There is still time to make the corrections. DEAN: You play games with this election and you WILL see BUSH III (McCain) in the White House. You’re going to alienate a lot of good Democrats! Stop screwing around!

The Michigan Primary was 55% Clinton to 40%. How is that a significant win? There were a lot of voters wanted anyone but Clinton to win. They either need to have a re-do or they not be counted. It would be unfair to all concerned if they are counted now.

for all u people who think a caucas is the answer just look at the TX results, over 2 million voted in the primary , they barely broke 100K in the caucas. Thats including the reports in the dallas news about obama supporters locking the hillary supporters out of the buildings. There are police records of this showing up in dallas too. Caucassing should be ousted!

Doesn’t it seem a teeny bit hypocritical for the Obama supporters to accuse Hillary of “changing the rules” by attempting to seat delegates from MI and FL, while at the same time pushing to switch from primaries to caucuses in a re-vote so they have a better chance to win?
One reason I support Hillary is because she is so obviously willing to crawl over broken glass to become President. Anyone who wants it less doesn’t deserve it, and won’t give it their best once there (best example is G.W. Bush). Anyone who pretends to want it less is lying because they think it makes them look better (examples are Barack Obama and Fred Thompson).

The statement that Obama ran ads in Fla. is a joke. He ran cable ads on National cable networks which broadcast everywhere, including Fla. Hillary went tio Fla. before the primary, claiming to be doing a fund raiser (wink, wink) and showed up after to claim victory. Quit trying to rewrite history.

Dennis – Both Hillary AND Obama went to FL to raise money before the primary. That was specifically allowed per the DNC rules. So what if she went afterwards to claim victory, if Obama thought he was going to win he would have shown up to.

If I’ve heard “rules are rules” once, I’ve heard it a dozen times.
Let’s all agree that the rules were broken. What I object to is the decision to strip each state of its entire delegations.
The DNC Rules Committe took four months to determine how it was going to handle the rebellious states of Florida and Michigan.
Perhaps we should be objecting to the extreme consequences, when it would have been just as easy for the DNC to unseat just half of each state’s delegation, or the strip the super delegates of voting rights, and/or prohibit state party leaders from holding important party positions or voting on important party matters for a term of 3-5 years.
Then you’re punishing the folks who got Florida and Michigan into this mess, without penalizing its citizens of their right to vote.

If they don’t do something to help FL they can kiss this election goodbye that is for sure, and it will be worse if Obama is the nominee he will never be able to win FL democrats, so he and his supporters can play fast and loose with this thinking he has it in the bag with his nonsense, he will not be able to win this election without FL.

The DNC needs to pay for the do overs, because they are the ones who decided to “punish” a couple of million people for something they had no control over. Especially in Florida, when it was a Republican administration who set the date for the Democratic primary. Maybe Howard Dean is another chauvanist who is afraid Hillary may pick up enough delegates from these two contests to pull ahead. After Dean self-destructed his own primary campaign, how did we end up with him as the head of the DNC? What moron made that decision?

They had control over it they voted for the dumb Florida Rebublicans thats there fault. There the one that moved up the elections not the DNC.

I think whichever candidate pushes the hardest to get Florida and Michigan’s delegation seated will be appreciated all the more for it.
Both the candidates and the people in those states are stuck with the decision of the respective state legislatures, the state party leaders and the DNC Rules Committee ruling.
By agreeing not to campaign, the candidates agreed to abide by the DNC’s sanctions, but that should not be construed to mean that they agreed with the actual sanctioning decision.
I’ve read that the candidates who withdrew their names in Michigan, did so to show their support of the DNC decision, while those who left their name on the ballot simply agreed to abide by the sanctions, without agreeing with the DNC’s actions.
Remember Dennis Kucinich was still in the race at that time, and he kept his name on the ballot, as did Senator Dodd if I’m not mistaken.

All you Obambites don’t get it. But I’ll help you out. Here what you need to know about the Clintons:
Rules apply to other people. Now you know. It is that simple, really.
Or as Brotha Machievelli tells us – “The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present.”
Just remember this as you grapple with these gals (and some guys).

Also they would not let Independents vote in that election also according to C-Span

Boy oh boy and just think how America is going to be under a Hillary Clinton Administration. Wow! God help us. She creates a storm were ever she goes Ms. Conflict thats Hillary!

The citizens of Florida and Michigan certainly deserve to be represented at the Democratic convention.It would be outrageous to punish them because politicians in their states chose to have their primaries so early in the process.It is only fair that every state receive representation at the Republican and Democratic conventions.I fervently believe in liberty and democracy.If we want to maintain our republic, we need the participation of Americans from around the country.This includes the people of Florida and Michigan.It would go against the principles for which our nation stands to deny the citizens of Florida and Michigan delegates at the Democratic convention.

The way things now stand, nobody wants to pay for a revote in Florida. Unless someone steps up to the plate on that one, the DNC will have to certify the existing or they don’t count at all. The whole thing is a rip for the Florida voters.

I agree. (and maybe I should have clarified this earlier) I in no way blame this on the citizens in Fla. and Mi., but someone in those states knew that there would be repercussions. So if anyone should be blamed, shouldn’t it be the persons in these states that were responsible for the move of the primary date?

b.—
My point is can you justify spending 18M
on a revote in a state where neither candidate had an advantage?

I agree that the states screwed up, so the states should have to pay for any revote.
And since its cheaper to caucus that’s the way to go.

Amazing how all of this is Hillary Clinton’s fault! Get real, people, this is just another screw-up by the DNC and Howard Dean. And in Michigan, Hillary Clinton did not take her name off the ballot as did Obama and most others, because she said to do so was to disenfranchise the voters. How prophetic! Howard Dean and the DNC couldn’t be doing the Republicans any more favors if they were on Karl Rove’s payroll!!

Whatever is decided, Florida needs to avoid the caucus circus.
Caucuses are the most worthless waste of time ever conceived.
The caucus mentality is akin to the commercial about herding cats.
They already voted once, and that is enough.
Just count the votes, and get on with it.

Dennis – Obama did a fundraiser in FL the same day Clinton did. Both fundraisers were private events. Obama chose to buy national ads instead of ads just for the states he was supposed to. He willingly violated the rules.

Let’s paint another scenario… a state holds a primary with a record turnout… there is some sort of snafu that leads to votes not being counted ina significant number of polling places (sound familiar)… some judges rule that it is too expensive and time consuming to count all the votes or have any re-dos so they decide to throw out anything questionable and use only a portion of the vote tally… in the end a significant number of voters are disenfranchised and the states representive votes do not represent the will of the voters… oh but wait that is ok because there was a precedent.. this situation is no different… voters do not want to be disenfranchised because republicans in their legislatures screwed them out of their votes counting once again
FL – both candidates were on the ticket, both campaigned nationally with full media coverage, Obama ran ads that aired in FL before the vote and he lost anyway, the turnout was double the turnout for the 2004 election so it more than represents the will of the voters, i say count FL as is
MI – Clinton, Kucinich, and Undecided were the choices, no one campaigned there, all campaigned nationally with media coverage, if we give all the undecided votes to Obama (even though they were not all his because there were 5 other candidates in that group) then that negates any advantage implied by name and he still loses, voter turnout in 2008 primaries was 5 times the turnout in 2004 primaries so it clearly reflects the will of the voters, i say count the vote as is
This is a fair a logical solution in the interest of the voters and taxpayer dollars.

Yeah. How about those idiot caucus’s. Lets see. Where to begin. Never mind the waste of time red state causus’s that will never go Democrat anyway.
Nevada. Clinton wins by 6% , but Obama gets the extra delegate. Hows that for fair in a democracy?
Clinton beats Obama by 100,000 votes in texas, but WAIT, there is a tapdanced Caucus so you can vote twice. Wait. African american communities get more delegates than Latinos. Aint life grand?
How does one win by 4% in a primary of 2.7million voters, then LOSE by 10% or more in the same state caucus by the SAME VOTERS ?????
Question: How many ‘caucus’s are in the general election?
Oh. Yes. Washington state. Caucus again. Wins by 27% .
They have a PRIMARY 2 weeks later. He wins by THREE .
How does that makes sense? See a pattern here ?
Heres the kickers. Ready for it?
Michigan and Florida. Both Clinton states.
Lets not have them count. Obamas fault? No.
But for the 50th time, pretty damn good luck for Obama.
He has caught every single break there is.

DCVoter,
I agree, none of them, Hillary or Obama can get 2025 delegates. Why the media always mention Hillary problem instead of Obama?

Howard Dean needs to fired from the DNC.He’s been nothing but a joke by allowing these caucuses to go on. Get rid of these stupid caucus and just have primaries with winner take all. Why should any one have to vote twice? That’s got be the most idiotic thing ever.

If the media had exposed Obama’s Rezko affair during the early part of the primary, there might not be any Obamamania because right now those who voted for Obama are wishing they could have a redo of the voting so they can change their vote and could have voted Hillary. This is the fault of the media who treated Obama with kid gloves. Just three days of showing Obama hugging Rezko in jovial mood, the Texas, Rhode Island, and Ohio voters were intelligent enough to discern who is the real Obama. Super delegates will have to decide with good judgment who is the best choice between Obama and Hillary. No amount of numbers will determine who should be the rightful nominee. Obama is not strong enough to lead this nation, his past life or maybe present life now is full of secrets. A trasparent personality makes him trustworthy but he decided to cover up and tell lies instead. During the debate with Hillary he said that “I only have 5 minutes of realtionship with Rezko but it turn out he disclosed( in 2007) that they have a house hunting in 2007 and then in the trial of Rezko,the lawyer of Rezko presented an evidence that Obama and Rezko are having a relationship that is more than acquintance. Obama should set this clear to regain his credibility among super delegates who will decide on his fate. His big corporate financial supporters like Execon will have to exert effort and influence in convincing the super delegates because their money and efforts in his campaign will just go down the drain. The best policy is HONESTY AND SELF RESPECT

Rules are rules I agree. Do over required reinstatement not appropriate.
BUT lets travel back in time………..
Polls show Hillary with a big lead in nearly all states especially the big ones. Obama sets a game plan to target all the smaller states. DNC offer to eliminate the vote in FL and Michigan. This allows Obama to conserve cash, rein in possible Clinton momentum and restrict her delegate tally.
So yes Hillary thought she could win without FL and MI but it also suited Obama to keep them out. So they both followed the rules for their own self serving reasons. There are no good guys here. Political expediency on both parts.
Otherwise Obama who is so keen on us observing the voice of the people would have cried out for a resolution to enable proper primaries to hear that voice.

Democrats are trying to invalidate Florida votes… again? They must really hate Florida.

A regular primary would cost around $9M and caucuses would be half that; per state. After all that money is spent, with proportional representation, the end result will be a net gain for either candidate of maybe 10 delegates. Why not do it the Oregon way… by mail.
Unless one of these candidates gets over 75% from each of the remaining states and a good number of Super Duper Delegates join the bandwagon, it has to go to convention. I hope that it goes all the way… I would be fascinated to see how they campaign in Puerto Rico.

why are you people still bashing the canidates? This is about Fl. and MICH not which canidate is better fit for the job. Stay on task here. The voters did not make that decisison and they should not be penalized. What’s fair is fair, let both candiates campaign and see the outcome.

WOW! If this isn’t the dumbest argument in the history of politics. You people can’t see this was a BLANTANT conspiracy by the Republican party of FLA. The Democratic chair of the state of Florida said they had a choice when this was voted on, and they decided to go with the Repubs decision to VIOLATE their own party’s rules. The consequences were already know and Hillary agreed, there is video evidence of this all over the net. Now, because she PRESUMED that she would have the nomination wrapped up on Super Tuesday (Feb 5th) and it didn’t happen, she now is for the disenfranchised voters of FLA. PLEASE, this is an easy, clear and precise decision by the Republican party of Florida to make a mockery of the Democratic National Party election process. What’s even worst is the fact that most REAL voters in FLA are repubs, and the state will not be won by neither Hillary nor Obama in Nov, because no grassroot organizations were establish by none of the democratic canidates to empower the voters that have NEVER voted. This is exactly what the Republican Party of Florida wants. It’s just so, so, so sad that none of you in here sees this. You are just either so enraptured by your canidate of choice or you hate the other to the point that you have to sling personal attacks. Its just so disheatening to see this historic run reduced to the pettiness that here in this blog and so many on the internet.
WAKE UP PEOPLE! IT’S TIME FOR A CHANGE FROM THIS SAME OLE POLITICS OF OLD!!!

One Simple “YES” People voices should be heard. There should be a re-do. The democracy is all about by the people, for the people and to the people.

Why don’t people realize that it is not people’s fault that the primaries were moved up. The people of FL and MI shouldn’t be penalized for someone else’s fault. Eventhough I am for a re-do if Obama wins in re-do it is very unfair as you all know he is a brain washer!!

Oh, and on your point thats it’s not the people’s fault, lets examine this thought throughly. People elect the politicians that is suppose to represent them, the voted in republican parties of both states moved the election up against the rules, AND most importantly, with the approval of the democratic party heads of state. Therefore, in all actuality, it is indirectly the citizens of the these states that elected these politicians which made this dumb decision. Now, I don’t agree that these voters should be disenfranchised, I think that a real solution should be made, but the election that took place is NOT what should be counted.

The underhandedness of Obama’s side is to prevent Hillary from getting her winning votes in FL & MI. Who subscribes to dirty politics? Obama. When Obama had more popular votes and losing in delegates he was proclaiming the fair way was to have superdelegates align with their states popular vote choice. Now that he has more delegates and has lost more states in popular votes he is proclaiming the fair determining factor is the number of delegates a candidate has. He is such a flip flopper, double talking, and intelligence insulting person. I know he cannot remember things, but he should realize the public has a better memory than his.

Rubadub===
Why would any registered voter who wanted their voice to be heard not vote?
The people have a right to be counted and the DNC should make that happen. Those that caused this nasty little mess
should be held accountable for their actions then drawn and quartered.

True, Obama knew the rules and he broke them by releasing an ad in Florida which they all agreed not to do. Therefore, since all candidates were on the ballot, the vote counts. Just add a caucus so Obama people don’t feel freaked out or ripped off. It is cheaper and everyone’s vote will count.

WHY DON’T THE CANDIDATES SPLIT THE COST FOR A NEW PRIMARY OR CAUCUS IN MICH. AND FLA. NEITHER OF THEM WANTS TO GET OUT OF THE RACE,BOTH OF THEM HAVE A POINT. BARACK OBAMA WASN’T EVEN ON THE MICH. TICKET,NOR DID HE EVEN CAMPAIGN IN FLA. BECAUSE HE FOLLOWED THE RULES.AND HILLARY CLINTON CAN QUIT HER WHINING BECAUSE SHE DIDN’T GET HER WAY,EVEN THOUGH SHE AGREED TO THE TERMS FROM THE BEGINNING.

Well whadda ya know… James Carville just offered up $15 million to help pay for primaries in FL and MI. LOL

When the Florida and Michigan Democratic Committees decided to adopt their cavalier approaches and move their primaries to dates contrary to the DNC’s instruction, they opened their voters up to being disenfranchised. The people who made these decisions must assume responsibility for the consequences. As a society, we’ve totally lost touch with that reality. I’m an avid Democrat and am not particularly wild about either Obama or Clinton, but there should be no “re-do” election, much less time wasted being concerned over who would pay for it. Florida and Michigan Democrats: rid yourselves of those state level officials that created this mess and disenfrancchised you. Your prediciment is their fault, not the DNC’s.

As Obama recently said, “We should let the people’s voices be heard.” Michigan and Florida voters voted when the polls were open. Do not re-vote. Count their votes. If delegates’ votes for other states are counted, then count the Florida and Michigan delegates’ votes! Be fair. Maybe the math favors Obama, but the “people” favor Hillary! This is a democracy—not an Algebra Test.

i feel they should move on with the election. Let Why should they look back. The people of Flordia will be able to vote in November. Hillary is trying to win unfair. Shwe want to know what is happening in Obama campaign part. Should obama know what is going on in her campaign. Obama can win the presidency. I hope the american people look in to thier heart and let Hillary out of the presidency. She is very mean. I pray for her soul for God to touch her heart and change her attitude. For her to be a formal first lady. She is not being lady like. Is this the kind of person we want for president. When she has to face difficult people for our country. She need to calm down. How are she going to make peace with other countries when they has hostile attidues and she display the same. Our country will be in a mess. The other countries will hate us. Please world get a grip on your conscious. Hillary is not the best canidate for this country. We need a person like Obama who will be able to make peace not war. She is very rude and has a dispostion that is not pleasing in the sight of God. One nation under God, Hillary is not showing that in her political career.I hope the world will open up their eyes. I pray hard for Obama and his campaign.

Reverse example of how Obama plagiarism:
Attention all True democrats,
No need to rally to Obama’s Defense! He is the only true loser in this race! We have all seen Obama praising McCain on the news! Obama is a Socialist! He doesn’t care if he wins or not as long as Hillary doesn’t! Obama does not deserve to win the Democratic nomination, because he is a Socialist! Vote for Hillary Clinton. She is the only qualified candidate with good judgment running for President of the United States.

flordia has had their primary election. they should not be allowed another. one is enough.