Hillary Wants to Flip Pledged Delegates?

Jake,
The pledged delegates are required to vote according to who they are committed to during the first round of voting. However, I believe that in subsequent rounds, they are free to vote as they please.

Primary and caucus delegates are not legally bound to vote for any candidate. If they decide that their knowledge of a candidate or his/her qualifications has changed, or perhaps if the opinion of th electorate has changed, they may feel that have good rational to vote accordingly. If they don’t have a strong reason, they will probably vote as they had “pledged.” Hillary is correct on this as I’ve seen it discussed by political science professors at a top college conference.

I am disgusted by the Clinton campaign tactics. The second round of Iowa caucuses took place after the Revered Wright story broke and before Obama’s speech and he increased his delegate lead in the state by earning half of John Edwards’ delegates.

“The pledged delegates are required to vote according to who they are committed to during the first round of voting. However, I believe that in subsequent rounds, they are free to vote as they please.”
With only two candidates left, just how many rounds does Hillary feel there will be in this voting?

It would be the same ole crap in Washington that is going on now.Think of the favors she would have to replace and you tell me she is for middle class and the poor class of people in this country.
Now there are no middle class only rich and poor for we(middle class ) has carried this country for most of its life…Time the rich folks do their part.
Mark my word she is NOT the one setting these plans for home owners and economy her little hubby is doing it in the back ground so it makes her look good.She DOES NOT have the knowledge to run this country…

BC…you are delusional. Obama supporters have no reason to switch. And why would they switch to the lying, cheating, unethical, despicable Hillary Clinton? We have a candidate who has passed the “integrity threshold as well as Commander in chief threshold”. Hillary falls far short of passing any threhold except the “I will do and say anything to win threshold”.

Hilliary wants to pull a BUSH and her supporters are all for it. No wonder they all claim to support McCain if she loses, they’re ALL REPUBLICANS!!!

Hillary has exposed herself as the liar, the distorter of truth, she and Bill are. They lie, they cheat, and they are trying to steal this election by persuading pledged delegates.

It is an issue of electability. Earlier contests weighed in during the “blinding light” of Obama’s rhetoric and persona. As this contest matures and Obama is vetted more thoroughly, we may see a very different outcome in Pa. and remaining contests. If Obama cannot recover some of Clinton’s base (as he did effectively in Wisconsin)his chances in the general are not good. Hispanics and independents will most likely go to McCain.
Btw…
If Hillary is no longer a threat to Obama for the nomination, why is so much attention being paid to every word she utters?
Don’t forget, “She is in it to win it”

So when it is Mr. Obama that does it it is ok….Please be fair.

Hillary campaign can’t stop lying about pledged delegates.
The first time Ickes said it the campaign denied they were talking about this. The first time Hillary said this the campaign denied it was an issue.. Now she keeps saying it. Hillary campaign is all about lies and deception.

Yo, Jason, answer the math question, dude!

actually, I agree with BC. Wait and see Pennsylvania. I do believe there will be a rude awakening for many

Why shouldn’t the pledged delegates be able to flip? Obama has certainly revealed himself to be a consummate flip-flopper. His rhetoric does not match his actions and, until recently, the mainstream media refused to highlight many of his less than desirable attributes. They still haven’t called on him to account for lying about his knowledge of Rev. Wright’s sermons or his coziness with and taking of big corporate donations while excoriating other candidates for doing the same in his campaign stump speeches. Obama will be unelectable in the general election. Democrats who were unaware of his “not so perfect” attributes and fell for the “bait and switch” message should be able to “exchange” their vote for one that is more realistic, consistent, and will give the dems an electable candidate this fall

Billy, Pennsylvania is based on proportional seating of the delegates like all the other states.
If Hillary wins pennsylvania 58-42 she picks up 8 delegates.
Hillary lost the election by losing virginia 64-35, wisconsin 58-41. She lost 11 states by double digits.
You can’t lose 11 straight contests by double digits and expect to be the nominee.
Hillary Rodham Clinton is very week out west. She didn’t even compete out west. She lost by huge margins in colorodo, minnesota, washington state.

all democrats should want a candidate who has a real chance to win in November. Hillary will compete with the white vote and, as Bill Clinton did in the 96 election, achieve 72% of the Hispanic vote.

Seriously now, what is she thinking? Maybe that she can tear down Obama enough that he’ll lose in November so that she can run against McCain in 2012? Is that it?
Seems far-fetched, but less far-fetched than Clinton winning the nomination fair and square.

as I read comments on this blog site I see a pattern of agreement that both canidates are flip floppers, some just say lairs, WELL GUESS WHAT this should not surprise anyone. If you want to vote for a democrate expect to be lied to.

Jason, I agree, Obama’s 11 wins were impressive but the race has experienced a fundamental transformation. Again, if Obama continued to chip away at Clinton’s base in Ohio, R.I., and Tx., I would be right with you, but he didn’t. (that was before the Rev. Wright debacle) Usually, the Clinton’s margin in the polls shrink as contests grow closer but this is not happening in Pa. She is holding firm in Pa and in has erased a 14 point lead in N.C. This Rev. Wright issue has had a serious impact on Obama’s chances in the primary and definetly in the General, don’t you think?

I agree with BC as well…I’m sure that many of the “typical white” voters who supported his campaign with their time and money feel betrayed and would take their vote back if they could.

Chris, it was Obama who Lied to 5 pundits in one night about not being in the pews when Rev. Wright spewed his hate speech! He then comes out in his race speech and confirmed that we was in the church.

By the time the next primary comes around, Obama will have narrowed Clinton’s lead again. Clinton knows this and the polls verify this. This is the reason she has embraced this, most ruthless, approach. When will people wake up and see her for the scum she really is?

Chris – How unbelievably condescending of you. To generalize negatively and assert personal attacks against others simply because they disagree with you on who is the best candidate is one of the many reasons so many voters have “voters remorse” when it comes to Obama. His shiny campaign has tarnished and the supporters who “bully” voters has proven to be the most divisive element in the political season.

Hey, whatever it takes to win, right?
Clearly, it’s not how you play the game.
How anyone could vote for Hillary Clinton with all of her questionable tactics and “misstatements” is beyond me. Where are those tax returns and donor records, anyway?

the Clinton’s ‘win at any cost’ theme only serves to destroy the party and and shows how little they care about the rest of us. Some on tv have even opined that they wish mccain would beat obama so she could run again in 4 years – so much for the ‘loyalty’ that carville carps about. how about hypocrisy – maybe he should learn that word.

It is a simple matter of the Electoral College. Obama can’t win. He doesn’t have the support in the states that matter. He blew off two that matter a great deal.
At some point, the Democratic Party has to decide if they care about winning in the General Election more than making statements on race and other distractions. Howard Dean is in deep deep trouble now. He can’t be counted on to manage an Obama nomination if the sure result is a loss in the General Election.
If I were Dean, I’d be privately refloating the idea of a joint ticket. It is sure to win and it has the payoff of a potential 16 years of a Democratic executive. For that to work, Obama has to accept the VP slot. Any Democrat who can’t understand the real change possible here shouldn’t be in the party.
So now it simply comes down to this: are Dean and the candidates REALLY interested in what is best for the country and their party, or are they so self-absorbed they are willing to sail it into the iceberg looming?

LOM, Hillary’s own people said she had only a 10 percent chance of winning. That is coming from her side which is biased to her.
She mathematically really has no chance.
Her own people said the only way she could realistically win is if he a huge scandal where it disqualified him and he had to drop out. That is what is left of the Clinton campaign.

Obama got John Edwards delegates. Did any one in the press question Obama’s hypocrisy in this regard. How do you know that Obama will not get less 15% of votes in PA and Hillary will win all the 140+ pledged delegates.
Did GOD started talking to the press in addition to Pat Robertson?

benj – Hillary will never never ever get my vote

NEW RULES…when it comes to Hillary Clinton, if it benefits Hillary – even if it may be contrary to the rules, it’s A-OK.
Give it up Hill – you’re just embarrassing yourself and setting the Democratic party back.

Why in the world would Obama want to do nothing under Bill and Hillary.
If by some mathemially miracle Hillary won Obama would be far better staying in the senate or running for governor of illinois. Obama is his own person. Hillary is the one who pads her resume from Bill. Obama and Hillary are completely different in their styles. They would never be on a joint ticket.

Roger Miller -
” We will not let the press dictate who the nominee will be.”
Your right we will let the truth dictate that. …and considering not a single question has been brought up about the LISTS of scandals with the Clintons… I would say if they are letting anyone off …that would be the candidate who has more lawsuits, allegations, fines, inquiries, … and legal trouble than any politician in the public eye today…
Yes that is the Clintons. …adn no they have not been vetted and yet all those unanswered questions…when have you seena single one brought up by the press… oh, but they are favoring Obama in thier “manipulative coverage”.
C’mon. Wake up people. the Clintons are not the saviors of the party that you all have prayed to for years now.
Stop the madness. It is like when people say “cancer” in low tones…the democrats are expected to say “lies” “scandal” in fact someone needs to put a list together of all the words you are not allowed to say in the same sentence with “Clinton”…but I think that would take to long.
You have been duped for years…and I feel bot only for the party myself and the country, but for you all who are hanging on to the only familiar, and what seemed positive thing you have fought for in so long.

Hillary will never choose Obama for VP now after he sanctioned his surrogates to attack Bill Clinton. I’m voting for Hillary in November but if she chooses that backstabbing republican in democrats clothes for VP I may change my mind. I don’t want Obama’s supporters to reap any benefit by attacking one of the best presidents we’ve ever had. end of story.

It’s bit disingenuous to report this as a Clinton tactic. Obama has already went after and captured other candidates’ pledged delegates. He did so at the county level in both Iowa and Nevada recently and no, they weren’t all former Edwards’ delegates.

McCain is a warmonger, Hillary is an untrustworthy manipulator who wants power, and Obama promotes welfarism that quite frankly we can’t afford.

“if Obama continued to chip away at Clinton’s base in Ohio, R.I., and Tx., I would be right with you, but he didn’t.”
Obama came away from Texas with more delegates than Clinton did – most people would consider that as a “win” for Obama and a “loss” for Clinton.
And for those people talking about “typical white voters”? As an American of Irish-German heritage, Rev Wright’s words do not offend me, I don’t buy into the fake panic that he or Obama hate whites OR hate this country, and I am smart enough to be able to see the reality beyond the media hype and the conservative (Clinton + Republican) BS. This “typical white voter” is campaigning for Obama this week, since he’s coming to see us in NC.

Jason,
To follow your logic, delegates do not have the option to change their allegiance. That is simply not the case. Obvious in the DNC Rules, adopted back AUGUST, 2006, prior to any controversy, a pledge delegate has the right to change support. Noticeably absent from the rules is any prohibition, and further, the qualification language is there to preserve the right of the delegate to CHANGE.
You don’t get to cherry-pick the rules. They exist independent of me and you and our advocacy; they were adopted in August, 2006.

Clinton senior adviser Harold Ickes said, “No delegate is required by party rule to vote for the candidate for which they’re pledged.” Is that why Clinton surrogates are insulting those who don’t side with them by calling them “Judas” and leaving them feeling very uncomfortable because they prefer another candidate? Plans A and B must have failed Team Clinton. Stop lying and hiding from the facts Hillary! You intend to bring about the destruction of the party because you can’t win! Tell the good people of Pennsylvania your real motive for lying about NAFTA and your continuance in the race.

Good Lord, does this woman even know what the rules of the Party are any more?
She tried to change a NATIONAL election with re-dos in Flordia and Michigan, threatened lawsuits in our state (probably will file some after our county caucuses on the 29th), filed an injunction on the Nevada caucus sites, so now she is going to change the pledged delegates role.
There have got to be some very very big bills coming due to the Clintons on all those political favors they offered their special interest and lobbists.
I am so sick of the Clintons. They continue to be above the election laws and rules and lie every chance they get. I’m sick of them endorsing McCain, then Bill Clinton comes back and insults the man on his age. Why in God’s name would anyone want them back in the White House.

Billy, Obama is still far more electable than Hillary.
Obama’s lead didn’t go from 14 to tied in north carolina. In the PPD poll it went from 4 to 1. SUSA went from 10 to 8 percent. In the poll where it was 14 percent they didn’t do a second poll.
Obama has retaken the lead nationally in gallup.

To BC re your comment “Ask those who voted for Obama in the primaries so far and i’m sure a huge proportion of those would want to flip over for Hillary now as well.”
You are “sure?” I question your certainty because I am equally “sure” that you have absolutely no data whatsoever to support your conclusion.
Amazing.

What is the big deal about Clinton lying? Everybody in Washington lies. George Bush lied and now more than 4,000 brave Americans have lost their lives! I knew many of them myself.
These soldiers have mothers, fathers, husbands, wives, children, etc. We are talking about tens of thousands of people whose lives have been shattered.
The most important issue is to get the MI and FL delagates resolved. When this occurs, maybe the math is not going to be aproblem. By now even Superdelagates
realize that the FL and MI voters cannot be disenfranchised.
Of course, Obama does not want that! He want to discount these voters. Nor does he want to mention the lunetic racist relationship he has had for 20 years!
Shame on you Obama! You are no friend of “intelligent” Americans!

So, what you are telling me is that Hillary Clinton is a liar AND a cheat?
I know there are a lot of people who are very invested in Hillary Clinton and don’t like to lose, but please take a moment to stop making excuses for her and look at the REAL Hillary Clinton, not the fictional “first woman president” of your dreams.
The REAL Hillary Clinton is dishonest and manipulative. For all the whining about Michigan and Florida now, she was completely FINE with their delegates not counting when she was pandering in Iowa and New Hampshire.
Senator Clinton believes that the ends justify the means, but this time, she is wrong.

So, when Barak wins and then the GOP link Obama to Wright you are going to see these all over the net. Parsing of Obama and Wright statements. I can hear it now.
YES, WE CAN! GOD DAMN AMERICA!
I have hope …!
We can change ……!
followed by a repeat of:
YES, WE CAN! GOD DAMN AMERICA!

In this close race maybe 1% why don’t we just wait and see what the math is at the end they will both need SD and since FL and MI are good for nothing states as you all remind us I think any thing less than taking this to the floor is cheating and don’t even try to seat them after the fact nobody is that stupid I and why should she be fair its not like the medida or axelrod have been .I am wright right pastor wright

“Scheme to win at any cost” should be the Clinton family mantra.

Maybe Hillary lied about cheating, ever think of that? :) Just trying to lighten the mood. It won’t work but what the heck, it’s um.. what day is it? Oh yeah, Tuesday.

Ha ha ha! Vicki please. Do yo expect us to believe you’re a pledged Delegate? Yeah, and how much is that bridge?

The Obama camp tactics and the RNC tactics and the Clinton camp tactics are all the same. Gotcha politics and point the finger at the other candidates to take the heat off yourself. Let’s talk about what really matters… none of them have been forthcoming with ALL tax returns but who cares about tax returns?… if there was any wrongdoing in them, it would already have been found by the powers that be (especially against Clinton)… the archives finally released Clinton’s schedules and JW has egg on its face because their witchhunt once again revealed nothing… all candidates pander to an audience, all candidates misspeak, at least Clinton and McCain own up to it and dont try to make excuses like Obama… both Obama and Clinton camps are in it to win it and they will pull any political tactic they can… both will campaign at the convention because that is how it works… when the margin is large, the switched ones dont matter… with a virtual tie… it matters… let the process work people and calm down LOL

Votersuppression
Do your research and find the full video. Fox and other media has been running the shorten version of what the minister said.

Hillary deserves to win. Rules don’t really matter, they are just there to manipulate stupid people.

Oh the pictures and news that the “racist” preacher Wright actually served as an advisor to Bill Clinton during times of crisis at the White House is just another surprise isn’t it? At what point do we take the squeaky toy away from Hillary Clinton?

What are you people smoking?
Here we have a choice between 2 candidates, one that motivates and inspires the Democratic base to get out the vote and another that inspires the GOP base to get out and vote because they hate her so much (and are voting as Dems in the primary because they know she can’t win in the fall).
Why is that a choice at all? Shouldn’t Dems pick the person that motivates OUR base??

American Citizen
Do you really think the GOP think tank cares what the entire video says?
YES WE CAN, GOD DAMN AMERICA!

I wish Nancy Pelosi, Al Gore or John Edwards would put an end to the Clinton campaign. It’s painfully obvious that she will stop at nothing to win.

If I am in a Job interview and I make up a story about being shot at by snipers while trying to land in Bosnia, and it turns out that the Employer does a little research and demonstrates that I in fact did not have snipers shooting at me, Can I claim that I “Misspoke”? Would I still get the job? Nope. Why should a Presidential candidate be held to a lower standard than myself?

I know there are plenty of people like DavidO out there that think Bush is one of the best presidents we’ve ever had.
That doesn’t make it any less creepy – nor does it leave me any less dumbfounded – when one of them speaks up and admits it though.

Are Americans so silly as to believe that Hillary will do everything necessary to win. No moral standard will get in the way of her election if she can help it. Remember the dirty tricks after 8 years of Bill in the white house. Hillary’s billing records mysteriously appearing in the private quarters of the Clinton’s all the tiime they were under subpeona. White water, filegate. How short is your memory America?

All I have to say is that I want a president who has taken Sniper fire in Kosovo and did her duty!
That poor thing she had to run to her car with bullets flying over head.
Seriously people… WAKE UP. Hillary has been lying to you all along. She gets caught in lies and half-truths constantly. Now, publicly available is her most blatent lie on video!
If you want a lying, cheating, two-faced president VOTE HILLARY!!!

Jay
There are a ton of scandals with Hillary in it. Not only those in the past. She has a trial that is getting ready to take place. It will not make good for her

This latest does suggest the Clinton campaign is isolated, in denial, and now engaging in a sort of group think. They apparantly really feel that the voters have gotten it wrong and its legit to back-room a nomination. Started off as a Clinton supporter but she has now definately lost me.

Typical anti-Clinton media bias. The story is not that the Clinton camp is reminding delegates of their options but rather that the option itself exists and can work BOTH WAYS. It could benefit BO as much or more than it benefits Hillary. But of course ABC wants you all to believe that BO is too moral and upright to accept such flips.

DNC Rules, a demystification:
I. No delegate at any level of the delegate selection process shall be mandated by law or Party rule to vote contrary to that person’s presidential choice as expressed at the time the delegate is elected.
J. Delegates elected to the national convention pledged to a presidential candidate shall in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them.
OK, so clearly, as per the rules, no delegate can be MANDATED to change his/her vote from that originally expressed at the time of his/her election. In other words, no one can mandate the change; delegate is free to change. however.
Also, pledged delegates should reflect the will of those who elected them. Note, this notably qualified by the phrase “in all good conscience,” and further, reflect the will of the people at which time?? Time of the primary or time of the convention?? I submit time of the convention since otherwise there would no need to even leave change of pledge as an option.
See for yourself, this is a link to DNC Rules; HRC camp is not misconstruing or even stretching here; the language is clear:
Posted by: marie | Mar 25, 2008 11:14:34 AM
I have reposted this many times and each time the post is deleted. Hmmmm.

American Citizen. Obama being behind by 10 points is nothing to brag about really..lol
Hillary is still up by 16 when all the polls are averaged.
RCP Average 03/10 – 03/24 - 52.3 36.3 Clinton +16.0
She will win by at least 15 points in PA, she is ahead 30 in West Virginia, ahead in Kentucky, Ahead in Indiana, and tied in North Carolina. Looks real bad for Obie Wan Obamie…

Enough of these Comments sections. Who cares what all these highly opinionated people think. If you want to impose your views so badly, get a blog and rant away. Can’t we just have articles?

I am not an Obama supporter and I am one of those persons who will not be voting for him in Nov. If Hillary is the candidate I will vote for her – not happily really but a heck of a lot happier than if Obama is the candidate.
To me Obama is even slicker than George W. – he’s got that conman game down pat — listening to him one would think that he is MLK re-incarnate and then listen to another speech and he’s ‘ghosting’ JFK and/or RFK – perhaps he’s a product of his upbringing – he’s had to be an American bi-racial kid in Kenya, a multi-denominational kid to a muslim grandfather and a not-really-black kid to his white grandparents.He’s used to putting on facades probably his entire life and he’s still doing. I’d say that Barack Obama has been a politician of sorts from the time he was a baby — and he’s not stopping now either. He joined Rev. Wright’s church 20 years cause he needed that ‘passport’ into the black community in order to make it – and he’s sat there year in and year out drinking in what Wright had to teach him. Obama didn’t grow up in an inner-city – he’s never lived in a polarized community but yet he threw grandma ‘under the train’ to save his political skin with a highly racial black minister – and in that act showed himself not to be the nice genial caring man he portrays himself to be. Never ever trust someone who would treat his own grandma so shamefully.
I also do not believe that the man is qualified to run this country – he’s shown no leadership qualities or skills to date as a state senator or US senator and the one bi-partisan committee he was lucky enough to be on he didn’t work with – showed up for just the press conference and then didn’t even back the bill. He’s a user. All politicians are users – but I fear that Obama is much worse than most we’ve seen to date. And I just don’t think we deserve Barack Obama.

I personally love it. This is what real politics is about, not the namby pamby stuff of the Obama campaign and his adherents. A fight to the finish with best man/woman left standing. The Obama lovers represent the weak-kneed portion of the Democratic party; the just be nice, just negotiate, why can’t we just all love each other, what losers; and they will lose in November if he is the nominee!

As a Conservative, it is my hope that the “Dream Team”, or “Dream Ticket” WILL
happen – talk about an easy target!
It would be the best thing for this country, because it is the surest way to
make sure that the Demmies go down in flames this year!!!

Barack Obama is disenfranchising FL and MI voters? I didn’t realize that Senator Obama was the Party Chairman… someone might want to tell Howard Dean to get the he** out of Barack’s office!

I’ll bet more Clinton voters have ‘buyers remorse’ than vice-versa.
Who’s the Judas anyways? Hillary is destroying the party for personal gain instead of uniting under the presumptive nominee–she’s the one with a loyalty problem.

Can anyone name at least one significant accomplishment of Sen. Clinton’s?

Contrary to what she may think, Senator Clinton is NOT, I repeat, NOT running for RE-ELECTION to the White House.
The junior Senator from NY is no more entitled to the presidency than any of the rest of us.
The fact that she has SQUANDERED her short time in ACTUAL elected office renaming post offices and congratulating lacrosse champions shows clearly what sort of leader she ISN’T.
I want a leader who tells the truth – straight up without toppings. I will chose and vote for a leader based upon his or her ACTIONS and DEEDS.

After all is said and done, McCain will win in November because Hillary supporters and Obama supporters will vote for McCain if their candidate of choice is not nominated.
I am one of them.

Again, politics is bogged down in the good old-fashioned art or rubbing shoulders, back room meetings, voting irregularities, he said-she said, so on and so forth. It’s Florida 2000 all over again!
Simple solution:
Let the people vote, every American that is capable, tabulate the popular vote, and whoever wins, wins!
Or is that just too simple, to be cost-effective for the lawyers.
This current system is absolutely ridiculous.

LESSONS FOR THE YOUNG NIAVE VOTERS OF OBAMA
I understand that most of the young voters commenting here are looking at the first Presidential race they have ever voted in. I can tell this by some of the galactically stupid comments from Obama supporters. This is not a frat election where whoever brings the beer wins the race. The rules here were not written by the Clintons and Obama has the ability to read them just like he read Karl Rove’s play book.
All deligates pledged or super are allowed to vote as they see fit at the convention with only one requirment, that they vote for the most electable democrat candidate. If one candidate had reached the number of deligates required before the convention then that candidate would have the nomination but neither candidate has the deligate count to win and will not have it by the convention. There are very good reasons for the rules. For example IF Obama were to be ahead in deligates by June but charged with a crime for murder or rape, do you think the deligates should vote for him anyway? Of course not and so the issue here is at what point do we realize that despite the early voting, one of these candidates is electable and the other is not electable in a general election.
Now look at the reality here. Obama despite piles of money, an ivy league education, Kennedy, Kerry, Oprah support and 80 to 90 % of the black community voting for him, Obama still lost in most democrat states like CA and MA. MA has elected to Governor, white male democrats, white male rublican, white woman and now a black male democrat Gov. Duval Patrick. MA seems to be both gender and color blind. But despite both Senators Kennedy and Kerry as well as Gov. Patrick’s support for Obama, MA voted overwhelmingly for Hillary. MA does not have a problem voting republican and given McCain’s liberal stance as a conservative McCain will win MA over Obama easily. As for CA, it might not be as clear but I also believe that CA will vote republican as they have for Governor. Hispanics have education and will not be swayed by Richrdson to vote Obama and therefore CA will go to McCain if the only option is Obama.
Most of the states that Obama won like Mississippi will as ususal be carried by the Republican in the general election. So Super deligates as well as pledged deligates must consider the obvious loss of the general election in Nov. if they nominate Obama.
Do you want to lose in November? If you would like democrats to win in November then HOPE that Hillary has the popular vote without MI and FL so that the deligates can follow the Obama rule (only written this year in Obama’s head) of voting for the candidate with the popular vote. If not then HOPE they follow the rules as written and vote or nominate the most electable candidate. Also keep in mind that the Republicans sound just like Obama supporters. Is that the group you wanted to be part of???

Well up to now it’s been a food fight…then a knife fight. Now ladies and gentlemen, I think HILLARY JUST STARTED HER FLOOR FIGHT before the convention.
Has Clinton triangulation worked? If so the Democratic party will be divided for years.
The people who hate Obama say they will vote for McCain if Hillary isn’t the nominee. Some will…some won’t vote at all.
Those who hate Hillary say they will vote for McCain…they WILL. You pretty much either like Hillary or you hate her. But, one thing is certain, no one person can rally the conservative base like a Clinton on the Democratic ticket.
Either way, I see a strong potential for McCain to win in November. The Clintons want either Hillary or McCain to be President. If she can’t be the Democratic nominee, she doesn’t want any one else to be the nominee. That is becoming increasingly clear.

Hillary is a opportunistic liar.
She lost my vote.

Clinton – Forget about your bloated ego… and get out of the way of the NEW Democratic Party ! America needs a 21st Century Candidate -
Barack Obama for President of the UNITED States of America.

billy
I agree the race has had a transformation. Hillary has been caught in more lies. People are sick of the Clinton’s lies. After Obama gave that speech on race relations more and more people began to contribute to his campaign. They realized what he stands for is what this country needs. One republican who never thought about contributing to Obama’s campaign gave 150.00 dollars and is planning on voting for him. One guy stated his father in law would never associate with any blacks now states he will be voting for Obama over Clinton.

Ok, I’ve heard alot of Obama bashing and everyone saying we’re naive and we’re voting for him because we think its cool. I posted this question about 20 minutes ago and remarkably… all Clinton supporters were silent. So I ask again…
Can anyone name at least one significant accomplishment of Sen. Clinton’s?

obama should end this rite now,by pulling senior dems aside and say he may have to consider a run as an independant.that would end clinton either way. she should show some party loyalty

Hillary – can’t take care of her man, can’t take care of our country.

So what exactly is the point of having an election, what exactly is the point of democracy if the delegates can just ignore the will of the people they’re representing and kowtow to political dynasties. Any one can see that Hillary is a polarizing candidate who will make us lose in November, and the dirty politics she’s using now make her drop in the esteem of people like me, who would otherwise respect her.
The person who said CA and MA would vote McCain over Obama lives in a dream world. I’m a resident of one of those states and grew up in the other. They will vote democrat regardless, as staunch democrats will, what we have to worry about are the people in the middle, and they are more likely to support Obama.

I am with the person who said ABC is so biased against Hillary Clinton. You would think Obama is the second coming of our Lord. As far as being under hypnosis, I don’t believe that for a second. As stated before, political races get dirty. Granted, it generally is not until the general election, but maybe that means the candidates are passionate. Regardless, if the DNC gets Obama as the presidential candidate, I will write in Robin Williams, as I will never vote Republican OR for Obama.

Where is John Edwards when we need him? Both of the democrats are mortally flawed, damn, how did the DNC screw this up?

Question by Blake:
“Can anyone name at least one significant accomplishment of Sen. Clinton’s?”
Um, she has passed legislation naming numerous post offices and monuments..haha seriously..That’s all she’s accomplished since she’s been in the senate.

We the people, doesn’t that mean anything anymore?

Michelle
Wrong Michelle. African Americans will not be voting for Clinton. In order for the party to win she would have to have the African American and the new voters votes. Many have already stated they will vote for McCain or stay home. They do not like the way Hillary has brought race into this campaign.

Hillary is not Bill.
What has she done for me as a democrat? Voted party lines and perpetuate the division of the country? yea. she did get that done. Im tired of all you old school, no vision, get back to what worked lying Clintonites. Your all as big of the problem as the neocons and president cheney.
How bad could Barak do? Worse than Bush? Worse than Clinton? It isnt possible.

To all;
What do we face in this coming general elction?
Several things that are omportant and will be important.
#1 We the people will be electeing a President that will either continue the downward spiral of this great land of people or…
#2 We will elect one who slows it down ever so slightly.
Neither / any of the current Candidates has the ability to do any great thing that will benefit our country. Hillary is not the best 3 AM warrior nor is Barack, John beats them both hands down.
Neither / any of the current Candidates has the ability to overhaul our “not so pefect” healthcare system.
Neither / any of the current Candidates has the ability to fix our way out of wack taxing system, see “Fair Tax”, google it please. Oh if your for handouts this will scare you!
One of the current Candidates has the ability to stop current waste to the handout people / nations, John McCain.
You want less jobs in the USA, vote democrate, more taxes, vote democrate, more big goverment, vote democrate, more intrusion into your personal business, vote democrate.

amer. cit.
Hope we can respectfully agree to disagree. Mrs. Clinton mispoke regarding the Bosnia incident. That particular experience has been well documented in her book. She erred and admitted it.
The only lies that shifted this primary are the lies Obama told to 5 pundits in one night regarding being in the pews when Rev. Wright uttered hate speech. He denied and then went back on it. Not good for a post-racial, post-partisan candidate.
The other major shift in this primary is the Rev. Wright issue. Obama began making significant inroads into Clinton’s base which would have carried him all the way to the white house. He no longer carries her base as evidenced by Ohio and Mississippi. Many of you may think that is the “rush effect” but I do not agree.
Look at Mississippi. Obama only carried 25% of the white vote and 91% of the black vote. Compare those numbers to N. Carolina when he pulled a higher % of the white vote. Rightly or wrongly, I am beginning to believe that Obama has been construed and painted as the black candidate. This is not good as we move through the rest of the primary contests and general (if he becomes the candidate)

Why do Obama supporters believe that Hillary Clinton in now trying to steal the election? Barack Obama has proven himself to be unelectable. A president of the United States of America would stand up and defend America against the anti-American rantings of Rev. Wright, rather than sit in a pew and listen to it. Barack Obama, for 20 years, has supported the beliefs of a racist, Anti-American pastor and is not even willing to distance himself from this man or this church now. I am sure there are many Americans who now feel that they would have made a different choice regarding his candidacy. He will get crushed in PA.

Do you get it, it’s lawyers and delegates, and they will decide. We the people are only their tool, to take control of this election.
It’s we the people, count the Popular Vote, and be done with it, please!

American Citizen
One person trying to teach the masses versus the GOP think tank…
Good luck to you
PS…we have already lost the best candidates for president in the primaries

votersuppression
Best candidate is still in the race. His name is Barack Obama

democrates have the overwhelming majority of stripped voters, they lean to the extent of requiring the republicans to hold them up.
vote dem and you show yourself as the ill-informed person you are.
demos control nothing by hard work, thye control by stealing (hillary).

Shawn,
GET A LIFE! Catie is as bad as the Hillibuster herself. You are a sick person.

jodi
Wrong women will vote for Obama. Many already have. More will. As far as voting for Barack over McCain a lot of republicans well as well. There are more African Americans than women. You are discounting the power of their vote. No they will not vote for another Clinton. They have burn’t their bridges in the African American Community.

Popular Vote Totals, not including Florida:
Obama…..13.67 million votes
Clinton…12.85 million votes
If we include Florida, Mr. Obama has about 400,000 vote lead, but what about Penn? This popular vote total could be just about wiped out!
It’s we the people, count our votes, and whoever wins, wins!

It’s all but over for Hillary. She just doesn’t have the numbers. I think she’s doing more harm to the Democratic party by staying in the race and giving the Republicans fodder, ammo and time when she knows her chances are so small. How selfish is that?

@Kadius: “You want less jobs in the USA, vote democrate, more taxes, vote democrate, more big goverment, vote democrate, more intrusion into your personal business, vote democrate.”
If Rush and Bill say it, it must be so! Listen closely, sheep: job growth in this country hasn’t been as bad as it has been under Bush in decades. Bush signed Medicare Part D into law and created the Department of Homeland Security, so there goes the “big government” propaganda. More taxes? Well, you’ve got me there. Yes the Dems will probably have to raise taxes to offset $trillions of war spending. It’s a politically unpopular necessity that Bush and the GOP lacked the courage to undertake. And saving the best for last, intrusion into personal business. Perhaps the best way to explain the laughable folly of that accusation is to ask a simple question: please provide a list of the GOP senators who have voted against FISA and its subsequent bills pardoning the telecoms for spying on us. In fact, just name one. That’s all.

Anybody want to comment on the possibility of the popular vote total being just about even after the Penn primary next month?
It’s we the people, count the votes, and whoever wins, wins!

Anyone want to comment on the good possibility of the POPULAR VOTE being about even, after the Penn Primary next month?
It’s we the people, count the votes, and whoever wins, wins!

Vince, not including Michagan, or Florida, for that matter. If we include those, Mrs. Clinton would have the lead. Do the math.

If Clinton takes 60% of the Popular Vote in the Penn. Primary, where just about deadlocked…hmmm

Don’t forget to deduct the Rush Limbaugh republicans who voted for Hillary — hey are the republicans financing her campaign??

Dennis and Vince,
So, you admit that the system is broken!
Good observation
It’s we the people

Florida 2000, all over again!
It’s we the people! Or didn’t anyone read our Constitution?

ross – We The People Failed To Elect An Nominee ! That Is Why They Have SuperDelegates!

SM wrote: I am with the person who said ABC is so biased against Hillary Clinton. You would think Obama is the second coming of our Lord.
——————————–
Obviously Hillary’s campaign doesn’t think so. James Carville thinks that title belongs to Senator Clinton. He so much as said so when he compared Gov. Richardson to Judas.

First off, I LOVE seeing these pronouncements that Obama voters want their votes back, which come from people who obviously would have never voted for Obama in the first place. In fact, most of the anti-Obama comments I hear are either loaded with Clinton rhetoric or anti-Obama right wing spin, and these are people who have been taking, and will continue to take, any reasons they can come by to attack Obama, but they’re not sincere in that they never would have voted for him in the first place.
However, ask a typical Obama supporter, such as myself and the people I speak to about Obama, and you’ll find that if anything, this whole flap has renewed our commitment to his candidacy. I know more than one person who chose to donate money during this flap. Essentially, it’s very obvious that this is nothing more than the Swift Boating of Obama, which we all knew was coming. There was even a story in which both one of the writers of the Swift Boat ad and one of the writers of the ad that linked John Murtha to Bin Laden and Saddam were barely able to contain their glee. Right wing operatives have already put together vidoes interspersing Obama’s words with Wright’s words, and showing it among a backdrop of Michelle’s “proud of America for the first time” gaffe, and the pictures of Obama not wearing his flag pin, and the pictures of him not saluting the flag. It’s all about painting him as unpatriotic. It’s all BS, but it works on some people.
But the kind of people it works on are generally not people who buy into Obama’s message of hope and change. If you don’t get what he means by change (a big part of it is changing the way things are done and the overall tone, as he says ending the politics of personal destruction), you can’t really be expected to rise above these attacks which are nothing more than distractions. Essentially, every Obama supporter I know says the same thing…those were Rev Wright’s words, not Obama’s words. We are not going to be fooled by “guilt by association”…as Obama says, “not this time”. For those of us who want what Obama has to offer, the contrast could not be more stark…it’s the tactics he wants to end being used to try to take him down. Obama has changed the rules here by pre-emptively calling to those of us who want to rise above this kind of counter-productive name calling and dirty politics. So, we’re not worried that this is going to be something that they try to batter him over the head with at ever turn between now and November.
Now those who worry about Obama “not playing fair” with Michigan and Florida, first off, he has taken a position and held to it all along…he will abide by what the DNC decides, but it was the DNC who made the decision in the first place, Florida and Michigan knowingly broke the rules thinking the stated consequences were a bluff…they made a bet and they lost. It’s up to them to resolve it, and now it’s a lot more complicated than if they’d just played by the rules. Obama did object to one part of the plan floated by Michigan, he took appropriate action, stating that he felt it would cause even more legal problems because of the way it was written. Lawmakers simply weren’t able to respond to his concerns in time, and THEY decided to recess, effectively killing the bill. Whereas Clinton supporters buy the argument hook line and sinker that he obstructed this from going through…what is he afraid of, etc., realistically, it was Hillary who wanted to force a poorly written piece of legislation down everyone’s throats, damn the consequences. This illustrates to me a fundamental difference between these two…someone who wants to take the time to consider the right path, vs. someone who pushes for the quickest, most self serving solution.
But bottom line is, no one says Florida and Michigan won’t ultimately be seated. The question is, how do you apportion the delegates fairly so that they can be. And though you could make the argument that in Florida, neither campaigned, so it was fair, that ignores the fact that everyone in Florida already knows who Clinton is, far fewer had even heard of Obama, without the ability to campaign, neither candidate got to make his or her case to the people. And furthermore, voters were told outright their votes would not count, and as such, many didn’t bother…I wouldn’t have bothered to vote in a meaningless primary! One has to acknowledge that based on the fact that in every state where Clinton had a huge lead in the polls before campaigning started in that state, Obama has either closed the gap or completely turned the contest on its ear, because once he makes his case to the voters, many are persuaded. Maybe he would have lost by a smaller margin, maybe he would have won, but clearly the results that stand now favor Clinton, which is why she wants to seat them as is. This is despite saying early on, she would abide by the DNC’s decision…it was OK to not seat these delegates when it didn’t matter to her, but now that they can help her catch up, she wants to change the rules.
Now in Michigan, it was even LESS fair because everyone else took their names of the ballot, and I do believe I heard that Hillary was planning to do so as well, but decided not to. Now, what kind of calculating decision was that? She agreed not to accept the results, and then she goes in with the advantage of having her name be the only major candidate on the ballot and she wants those results to count. And not only this, but imagine, you live in a state where they tell you that your vote in the primary isn’t going to count, and yet 40% of the voters essentially cast a ballot for “anyone but Hillary”. I would dare say that in a contest that mattered and the people knew it, the results would again be closer…maybe Hillary would still win, maybe she wouldn’t, but it wouldn’t be as large a spread. And even if you say, well 40% was for Obama and Edwards, so we’d be giving Obama the benefit of the doubt by giving him 40% of the delegates and you can in some twisted way think that is fair, OK, fine.
But bottom line is, you have to do something with the uncommitted delegates, and if you are going to let Hillary get her 55% even though she had the name recognition and the advantage of being the only major candidate on the ballot, you have to say at least giving Obama all the remaining delegates since there is no one else in the race is the most fair thing to do. And if you do that, and you add the results of Florida and Michigan as is, with the exception of giving him the uncommitted delegates, she is still way behind in the delegate count (not tied as one person claims, not even close to tied), and Obama still leads significantly in the popular vote.
This leads me to believe that when Obama secures the 2024 delegates he needs between the remaining races and the superdelegates who will break for him, despite Clinton’s ire, he will be able to seat the delegates as is, what happens on the first vote doesn’t oveturn anything, everyone with any delegates will have to instruct their delegates to switch to Obama for unity and on the second vote he gets them all and goes on.
What Hillary wants to do, and what her own campaign acknowledges she only has about a 10% chance of pulling off (but which most analysts agree is far lower) is to get close enough to make a case that she is the most electable, to the pledged and superdelegates, which at the end of the day would see her siphon off enough support to win just barely, she’d make her “win” seem even bigger by seating Florida and Michigan, and essentially the DNC would have to go to Obama and say, look…I know you won more delegates, more states, more popular votes, but for the good of the party we have to give this contest to Clinton because it’s not your time (and the word boy would be implied). That happens, and I can guarantee you that Clinton loses a TON of support from Democrats who will be disgusted enough to either not vote, write in Obama or even vote for McCain.
But I don’t want to demonize Hillary too much. This was her life’s dream, and she knows that if Obama wins the nomination, he will win the Presidency, and if that happens, he will likely not only win a second term, but enact changes that make it impossible for Clintonian or Rovian tactics to win elections. Not only that, but by the time she’d get to run again, she’d be pushing 70, she knows the chances of a 70 year old woman becoming President are slim and none. She’s got to go for broke. She sees opportunity within the rules to win, and as long as that opportunity exists, she has every right to pursue that opportunity.
However, speaking as someone who understands why she’s in the race, and believes she has every right to be there, I think she’s clearly showing that her self interest is more important to her than the interests of the country. And it’s THAT kind of thing I’m trying to get away from by supporting Obama. I used to think, even way back when she was First Lady that if she ever ran for President, I would vote for her. Obama came along and was simply more appealing at first. And when I saw how the two camps operated, I became more and more supportive of Obama and more and more disappointed in Clinton. Finally, this whole idea that she’s going to win by overriding the will of the voters, well that’s too much like Bush/Gore for my tastes, and never again can I willingly allow something like that to happen. So even though I’d rather have my toenails pulled out than see John “10,000 years in Iraq” McCain win, IF Hillary succeeds in this manner, I can not vote for her. I will write in Obama. If however Hillary manages to catch up in the delegate counts and she wins without resorting to tactics which though within the rules of the DNC are in my opinion shifty and unforgivable, then I’ll vote for her. I said all along, either would make a good President. But Hillary for my money would make a good status quo President, things would get better, but the fundamentals of how we elect our leaders and how we make decisions would still have far more to do with who is paying the bills and the politics of personal destruction than to do with the will of the people.
As I see it right now, Obama is ahead by over 130 delegates when you count both pledged and super. Clinton would have to win every contest from here on out with 60% of the delegates (and it takes far more than 60% of the votes to get 60% of the delegates). This means she would have to win in North Carolina and in all the smaller caucus states and in Indiana which borders Obama’s home state by margins which she has only seen once, in Arkansas! Even if you add Florida and Michigan with uncommitted going to Obama, she can’t catch up in either the delegates or the popular vote, unless something career ending happens to Obama. Some say Rev Wright is career ending, I say the impact is all but wiped out by his speech and those saying they won’t vote for him because of this by and large (by at least a 90/10 margin) wouldn’t have voted for him in the first place. I think anyone he lost with the Wright flap is offset by gains he’ll make with his speech for people who hadn’t made up their minds but were moved by what he said (people like Richardson). And speaking of Richardson, this really helps Obama with those Latino voters he couldn’t reach, and makes Clinton’s de facto claim to Puerto Rico a bit shakier.
Bottom line, without a career ending Obama event, Clinton won’t get close enough by the convention to even make a powerful enough case to persuade anyone, super or pledged delegates alike. In fact, what you are going to see is that Clinton will keep talking up Pennsylvania, and she will garner an impressive win there. But two weeks later on May 6 we have North Carolina and Indiana. And though Clinton may have gained a handful of net delegates in PA, Obama will by and large offset that between the IN and NC results. At that point, Hillary may still refuse to bow out gracefully, but May 7 is when I think you start to see huge numbers of uncommitted superdelegates look at the numbers and say “let’s end this thing”. Because 60% of what’s still up for grabs will be decided in that 2 week period. You’re going to see Obama ahead by somewhere between 100 and 120 net delegates, and there are only going to be just over 200 available in 6 more contest, many of which are smaller caucus states…the kind of states Clinton has shot herself in the foot by saying they don’t matter. She won’t be able to draw any feasible path to getting within even 30 or 40 delegates, or within even 250,000 popular votes, and her information regarding the electoral map will be spurious at best. Obama will be able to counter with his own projections which show that by not relying just on the “big states” most of which either Democrat will win, but by also campaigning in smaller states where he can drive enough new voters to the polls to flip them, he can achieve an electoral landslide.
My point here is this. Calm down, let the process play itself out. Very likely by May 8 there will be no way for Hillary to come back and she’ll be forced out of the race. Florida and Michigan will get seated, Obama will win the nomination, Hillary will have to as she promised, throw her support behind Obama, and most of the naysayers in her camp will come around begrudgingly because they won’t want McCain to keep us in Iraq forever. Obama will not pick Clinton as his running mate which will upset Clinton supporters, but which will ultimately be the best choice. Obama will achieve an electoral map reminiscent of Regan 84, only the other direction.
And expect my prognostication to land on deaf ears for anyone who presently doesn’t want Obama to win, but expect your criticisms of him and his ties to his church and his attempts to disenfranchise voters and this and that and the other thing to fall on deaf ears as well, because I think more people are going to be ready come November to simply ignore all the noise, all the distractions, all the negativity that is designed not to inform the voters, but to repress them and keep them at home in the thoughts that both candidates are horrible poeple who would do anything to win. Obama is not a rich old white man, remember that because that is going to be what wins him the election. I guarantee you there are millions of people in this country who don’t vote because every election all they’ve ever had to choose from is a rich old white man. Not this time. They have the man who was perhaps the top law student in the country, someone who could have gone anywhere and written his own ticket, a man of humble beginnings who was raised by a single parent, a man who had to live on food stamps at one time, and a man who instead of writing his own ticket, looked at his own past and decided to give back to those in need by going to the streets of Chicago to work with poverty stricken families for $13,000 a year. That’s what’s going to make him the next President, mark my words.

First off, I LOVE seeing these pronouncements that Obama voters want their votes back, which come from people who obviously would have never voted for Obama in the first place. In fact, most of the anti-Obama comments I hear are either loaded with Clinton rhetoric or anti-Obama right wing spin, and these are people who have been taking, and will continue to take, any reasons they can come by to attack Obama, but they’re not sincere in that they never would have voted for him in the first place.
However, ask a typical Obama supporter, such as myself and the people I speak to about Obama, and you’ll find that if anything, this whole flap has renewed our commitment to his candidacy. I know more than one person who chose to donate money during this flap. Essentially, it’s very obvious that this is nothing more than the Swift Boating of Obama, which we all knew was coming. There was even a story in which both one of the writers of the Swift Boat ad and one of the writers of the ad that linked John Murtha to Bin Laden and Saddam were barely able to contain their glee. Right wing operatives have already put together vidoes interspersing Obama’s words with Wright’s words, and showing it among a backdrop of Michelle’s “proud of America for the first time” gaffe, and the pictures of Obama not wearing his flag pin, and the pictures of him not saluting the flag. It’s all about painting him as unpatriotic. It’s all BS, but it works on some people.
But the kind of people it works on are generally not people who buy into Obama’s message of hope and change. If you don’t get what he means by change (a big part of it is changing the way things are done and the overall tone, as he says ending the politics of personal destruction), you can’t really be expected to rise above these attacks which are nothing more than distractions. Essentially, every Obama supporter I know says the same thing…those were Rev Wright’s words, not Obama’s words. We are not going to be fooled by “guilt by association”…as Obama says, “not this time”. For those of us who want what Obama has to offer, the contrast could not be more stark…it’s the tactics he wants to end being used to try to take him down. Obama has changed the rules here by pre-emptively calling to those of us who want to rise above this kind of counter-productive name calling and dirty politics. So, we’re not worried that this is going to be something that they try to batter him over the head with at ever turn between now and November.
Now those who worry about Obama “not playing fair” with Michigan and Florida, first off, he has taken a position and held to it all along…he will abide by what the DNC decides, but it was the DNC who made the decision in the first place, Florida and Michigan knowingly broke the rules thinking the stated consequences were a bluff…they made a bet and they lost. It’s up to them to resolve it, and now it’s a lot more complicated than if they’d just played by the rules. Obama did object to one part of the plan floated by Michigan, he took appropriate action, stating that he felt it would cause even more legal problems because of the way it was written. Lawmakers simply weren’t able to respond to his concerns in time, and THEY decided to recess, effectively killing the bill. Whereas Clinton supporters buy the argument hook line and sinker that he obstructed this from going through…what is he afraid of, etc., realistically, it was Hillary who wanted to force a poorly written piece of legislation down everyone’s throats, damn the consequences. This illustrates to me a fundamental difference between these two…someone who wants to take the time to consider the right path, vs. someone who pushes for the quickest, most self serving solution.
But bottom line is, no one says Florida and Michigan won’t ultimately be seated. The question is, how do you apportion the delegates fairly so that they can be. And though you could make the argument that in Florida, neither campaigned, so it was fair, that ignores the fact that everyone in Florida already knows who Clinton is, far fewer had even heard of Obama, without the ability to campaign, neither candidate got to make his or her case to the people. And furthermore, voters were told outright their votes would not count, and as such, many didn’t bother…I wouldn’t have bothered to vote in a meaningless primary! One has to acknowledge that based on the fact that in every state where Clinton had a huge lead in the polls before campaigning started in that state, Obama has either closed the gap or completely turned the contest on its ear, because once he makes his case to the voters, many are persuaded. Maybe he would have lost by a smaller margin, maybe he would have won, but clearly the results that stand now favor Clinton, which is why she wants to seat them as is. This is despite saying early on, she would abide by the DNC’s decision…it was OK to not seat these delegates when it didn’t matter to her, but now that they can help her catch up, she wants to change the rules.
Now in Michigan, it was even LESS fair because everyone else took their names of the ballot, and I do believe I heard that Hillary was planning to do so as well, but decided not to. Now, what kind of calculating decision was that? She agreed not to accept the results, and then she goes in with the advantage of having her name be the only major candidate on the ballot and she wants those results to count. And not only this, but imagine, you live in a state where they tell you that your vote in the primary isn’t going to count, and yet 40% of the voters essentially cast a ballot for “anyone but Hillary”. I would dare say that in a contest that mattered and the people knew it, the results would again be closer…maybe Hillary would still win, maybe she wouldn’t, but it wouldn’t be as large a spread. And even if you say, well 40% was for Obama and Edwards, so we’d be giving Obama the benefit of the doubt by giving him 40% of the delegates and you can in some twisted way think that is fair, OK, fine.
But bottom line is, you have to do something with the uncommitted delegates, and if you are going to let Hillary get her 55% even though she had the name recognition and the advantage of being the only major candidate on the ballot, you have to say at least giving Obama all the remaining delegates since there is no one else in the race is the most fair thing to do. And if you do that, and you add the results of Florida and Michigan as is, with the exception of giving him the uncommitted delegates, she is still way behind in the delegate count (not tied as one person claims, not even close to tied), and Obama still leads significantly in the popular vote.
This leads me to believe that when Obama secures the 2024 delegates he needs between the remaining races and the superdelegates who will break for him, despite Clinton’s ire, he will be able to seat the delegates as is, what happens on the first vote doesn’t oveturn anything, everyone with any delegates will have to instruct their delegates to switch to Obama for unity and on the second vote he gets them all and goes on.
What Hillary wants to do, and what her own campaign acknowledges she only has about a 10% chance of pulling off (but which most analysts agree is far lower) is to get close enough to make a case that she is the most electable, to the pledged and superdelegates, which at the end of the day would see her siphon off enough support to win just barely, she’d make her “win” seem even bigger by seating Florida and Michigan, and essentially the DNC would have to go to Obama and say, look…I know you won more delegates, more states, more popular votes, but for the good of the party we have to give this contest to Clinton because it’s not your time (and the word boy would be implied). That happens, and I can guarantee you that Clinton loses a TON of support from Democrats who will be disgusted enough to either not vote, write in Obama or even vote for McCain.
But I don’t want to demonize Hillary too much. This was her life’s dream, and she knows that if Obama wins the nomination, he will win the Presidency, and if that happens, he will likely not only win a second term, but enact changes that make it impossible for Clintonian or Rovian tactics to win elections. Not only that, but by the time she’d get to run again, she’d be pushing 70, she knows the chances of a 70 year old woman becoming President are slim and none. She’s got to go for broke. She sees opportunity within the rules to win, and as long as that opportunity exists, she has every right to pursue that opportunity.
However, speaking as someone who understands why she’s in the race, and believes she has every right to be there, I think she’s clearly showing that her self interest is more important to her than the interests of the country. And it’s THAT kind of thing I’m trying to get away from by supporting Obama. I used to think, even way back when she was First Lady that if she ever ran for President, I would vote for her. Obama came along and was simply more appealing at first. And when I saw how the two camps operated, I became more and more supportive of Obama and more and more disappointed in Clinton. Finally, this whole idea that she’s going to win by overriding the will of the voters, well that’s too much like Bush/Gore for my tastes, and never again can I willingly allow something like that to happen. So even though I’d rather have my toenails pulled out than see John “10,000 years in Iraq” McCain win, IF Hillary succeeds in this manner, I can not vote for her. I will write in Obama. If however Hillary manages to catch up in the delegate counts and she wins without resorting to tactics which though within the rules of the DNC are in my opinion shifty and unforgivable, then I’ll vote for her. I said all along, either would make a good President. But Hillary for my money would make a good status quo President, things would get better, but the fundamentals of how we elect our leaders and how we make decisions would still have far more to do with who is paying the bills and the politics of personal destruction than to do with the will of the people.
As I see it right now, Obama is ahead by over 130 delegates when you count both pledged and super. Clinton would have to win every contest from here on out with 60% of the delegates (and it takes far more than 60% of the votes to get 60% of the delegates). This means she would have to win in North Carolina and in all the smaller caucus states and in Indiana which borders Obama’s home state by margins which she has only seen once, in Arkansas! Even if you add Florida and Michigan with uncommitted going to Obama, she can’t catch up in either the delegates or the popular vote, unless something career ending happens to Obama. Some say Rev Wright is career ending, I say the impact is all but wiped out by his speech and those saying they won’t vote for him because of this by and large (by at least a 90/10 margin) wouldn’t have voted for him in the first place. I think anyone he lost with the Wright flap is offset by gains he’ll make with his speech for people who hadn’t made up their minds but were moved by what he said (people like Richardson). And speaking of Richardson, this really helps Obama with those Latino voters he couldn’t reach, and makes Clinton’s de facto claim to Puerto Rico a bit shakier.
Bottom line, without a career ending Obama event, Clinton won’t get close enough by the convention to even make a powerful enough case to persuade anyone, super or pledged delegates alike. In fact, what you are going to see is that Clinton will keep talking up Pennsylvania, and she will garner an impressive win there. But two weeks later on May 6 we have North Carolina and Indiana. And though Clinton may have gained a handful of net delegates in PA, Obama will by and large offset that between the IN and NC results. At that point, Hillary may still refuse to bow out gracefully, but May 7 is when I think you start to see huge numbers of uncommitted superdelegates look at the numbers and say “let’s end this thing”. Because 60% of what’s still up for grabs will be decided in that 2 week period. You’re going to see Obama ahead by somewhere between 100 and 120 net delegates, and there are only going to be just over 200 available in 6 more contest, many of which are smaller caucus states…the kind of states Clinton has shot herself in the foot by saying they don’t matter. She won’t be able to draw any feasible path to getting within even 30 or 40 delegates, or within even 250,000 popular votes, and her information regarding the electoral map will be spurious at best. Obama will be able to counter with his own projections which show that by not relying just on the “big states” most of which either Democrat will win, but by also campaigning in smaller states where he can drive enough new voters to the polls to flip them, he can achieve an electoral landslide.
My point here is this. Calm down, let the process play itself out. Very likely by May 8 there will be no way for Hillary to come back and she’ll be forced out of the race. Florida and Michigan will get seated, Obama will win the nomination, Hillary will have to as she promised, throw her support behind Obama, and most of the naysayers in her camp will come around begrudgingly because they won’t want McCain to keep us in Iraq forever. Obama will not pick Clinton as his running mate which will upset Clinton supporters, but which will ultimately be the best choice. Obama will achieve an electoral map reminiscent of Regan 84, only the other direction.
And expect my prognostication to land on deaf ears for anyone who presently doesn’t want Obama to win, but expect your criticisms of him and his ties to his church and his attempts to disenfranchise voters and this and that and the other thing to fall on deaf ears as well, because I think more people are going to be ready come November to simply ignore all the noise, all the distractions, all the negativity that is designed not to inform the voters, but to repress them and keep them at home in the thoughts that both candidates are horrible poeple who would do anything to win. Obama is not a rich old white man, remember that because that is going to be what wins him the election. I guarantee you there are millions of people in this country who don’t vote because every election all they’ve ever had to choose from is a rich old white man. Not this time. They have the man who was perhaps the top law student in the country, someone who could have gone anywhere and written his own ticket, a man of humble beginnings who was raised by a single parent, a man who had to live on food stamps at one time, and a man who instead of writing his own ticket, looked at his own past and decided to give back to those in need by going to the streets of Chicago to work with poverty stricken families for $13,000 a year. That’s what’s going to make him the next President, mark my words.

Hey, I know I said that if Hillary lost Texas the race was over and, and
Well,
I just checked over at CNN on the election results and I have to acknowledge that she lost the delegate race in that state–its wild too, because those Clintons knew the rules before the game was played.
Well, secretly, I admit the race is over but publicly Im the same old snakehead who, like the clinton’s, I need a stake in my heart and a silver bullet to the head before Im going anywhere.

Delegates and Super Delegates equal Bush over Gore, the Florida 2000 scandal, and self-serving legal interests.
It’s we the people, count the popular vote, and whoever wins, wins! Only a snake would prefer otherwise, hmmm

Popular Vote is too simple, and would result in big tax savings for Americans, and many legal professional out of work, hmmm. Gosh, wow, it’s just too simple for us good old boys.
Count the Popular Vote, whoever wins, wins!

“We The People Failed To Elect An Nominee ! That Is Why They Have SuperDelegates!”
Actually, that’s not true depending on your meaning/context. If we didn’t have super delegates, those extra 800 votes would be regular delegates and we would have nominated someone. The reason the supers exist is to allow control by the democratic leadership in a ‘we know better than the people’ mentality. Look up Sen. George McGovern and 1972 for the history.

I would not go as far as saying Obama or Wright are racists nor do I think it is productive to be so hateful in commenting about these candidates.
I would assert that they both appear to be a leaning a bit more to the “radical” end of the spectrum. Also, I wonder if the endorsement of the Black Panthers will have any impact on the race?
What I would say is that perception is reality and given that most adults have undiagnosed ADD, Rev. Wright’s sound bites will live in infamy and very well might hurt Obama in upcoming contests and definetly in the general (if he is the nominee)

Cheryl : That is the biggest lie from the Obama camp. ALL the race and racist issues have been brought to this race by Barak and Michelle Obama.
1) Bill Clinton said “Jesse Jackson won SC too.” That is an absolute fact and there is nothing racist about it but Obama claimed it to be racist and that is why all blacks began voting for him after the SC primary. If you go back and find Jesse Jackson’s comments before he heard from Obama on the issue even he Jesse Jackson himself said it was not a racist comment. Yes he flip/flopped after talking to Obama but it really doesn’t matter because everyone except the uneducated portion of the black community knows it was not a racist comment and that is part of the reason that Obama will not gain now in white votes.
2) Ms Ferraro said that Obama would not be in this position if he were a white man or any color woman. That also is an absolutly true statement, not racist and proof is that all other white men were out of the race early despite having in some cases if not all cases much more experience than Obama. It is a great thing that Ms Ferraro will not pretend her statement was racist and hold her ground. This is a woman that worked hard for years to help minorities and the blacks pay her back by misrepresenting her comments. This may make it much more difficult for future good candidates that happen to be black to ever get past the first primaries again….Obama’s fault.
3) Bill said he would like to see a race between Hillary and McCain (2 people that love this country)where we would hear talk on the issues rather than all this other stuff that finds its way into our politics. Nothing racist about that statement but Obama says Bill was questioning his love of this country. No Bill was just pointing out another fact that considering the way Obama has been running his campaign we can expect it to be all about race instead of ecconomy, Iraq, Health Care ect….sorry but we have much bigger problems here in America than to be concerned with whether or not Michelle Obama thinks the Chicago blacks have enough.
Obama has played the race card and or victim of comments he claims are racist when they are not throughout this primary. Who is he preaching to? Blacks from the Rev. Wright style of Church and that is not all blacks….many blacks are feeling duped by Obama lately. I bet that in NC we will find more than 10% of the black educated population voting for Hillary and most likely Obama will lose NC.
THE RACE CARD HAS ONLY BEEN PLAYED BY OBAMA. Why hasn’t Colin Powell come out to support Obama….oh maybe because Colin left the Rev. Wright’s Church and did not sit and listen to the trashy racist sermons. Oprah left that Church too….

Dale,
Dude you got that on word just waiting to copy and past or what??
Hey big brother or preventor of free speach, not you Dale.
why not let through the humorious thoughts of Sen. Clintons (my pun) about the trip, the plane and the exageration?

My prediction,
After the Penn. Primary, and if we include the faithful Dems who voted in Florida, but exclude Mich. for ballot prejudice, then we are about even in the Popular Vote. North Carolina, Indiana, Kentucky, you guys will have a say in this…
It’s we the people, count the votes, whoever wins, wins!

Say what, Obama won the most delegates in Texas with the caucus vote. Hillary is threatening to sue the democratic party of Texas. The results cannot be officially announced until the state convention in June, as always.
Quote: “Hey, I know I said that if Hillary lost Texas the race was over and, and
Well,
I just checked over at CNN on the election results and I have to acknowledge that she lost the delegate race in that state–its wild too, because those Clintons knew the rules before the game was played.
Well, secretly, I admit the race is over but publicly Im the same old snakehead who, like the clinton’s, I need a stake in my heart and a silver bullet to the head before Im going anywhere.”

We The People, count our votes!

It’s we the People, count the Popular Vote come June, whoever wins, wins!

Never mind. I mis-read you post.
Yep, Hillary lost in Texas I don’t know why the media won’t admit it.

Tester,
Agreed, the system is broken!
It’s we the people, count our votes, whoever wins, wins!

It’s evindence the system is broken.
It’s we the people, count our votes, whoever wins, wins!

Good Thing W can’t run again. Even with his low ratings he would easily defeat either of those 2 super liberal democrats.

I don’t think much of hilly but what about obama? He lied to about the rev wright and he gets a free ride by most of the media.

Obama is unelectable. Vote for Hillary. We do not need 8 more Republican years of war. McCain will kill another 4,000+ kids for nothing…

The Clintons are really starting to make me angry, I have never seen such sore losers in my life, they are acting like they are *entitled* to the nomination. I am a lifelong Democrat who has never missed voting in any primary or election, but after seeing them first try to change the rules *after* the fact with regard to Florida and Michigan, and now talking about flipping pledged delegates, I’ve come to the conclusion they are shameless slime and I’m very disappointed in her. It was a tough choice between Obama and Hillary, but not any more, I wouldn’t vote for her if she was the only person on the ballot.

I am in Penn and I am excited to say that I am organizing a crew and letting people know about Obama’s dirty tactics…he’s clearly the wrong person..he’s done all he can to ignore Florida and Michigan voters because is not to his advantage to include them…what kind of Change is that?
if he wins god forbid..MCCAIN WILL GET MY VOTE

I have faith that Hillary will do whatever it takes to win. I have no such faith in Obama. If she needs to flip delegates to win the nomination, then she should do it. We need a candidate who will go all out to win, because we know this is what the Republicans will do. The “weanie wing” of the Democratic party may not like it, but if we do not nominate a candidate that will do anything to win then Pres. McCain will certainly win.
Enough of the likes of Al Gore and John Kerry, who did not want it bad enough to fight for it. Does anybody really believe that Obama will “go to the mattresses” to win this thing? Obviously not. But, that is going to be what it takes. Obama supporters have this fantasy that Obama is like some kind of second coming, who will win the Democrats, the independents, and the Republicans, and cruise to a landslide over McCain. This is not going to happen. With Obama’s negatives rising fast we are looking at a contest that will be decided by a few states and a few percentage points. The candidate who is willing to go all out — to do anything to win — is the one who will win this thing, and that is not Obama’s style.

DALE, YOUR COMMENTS ARE TO LONG. NOBODY READS THEM.
HILARY, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS IN PENSLYVANIA IT’S TIME FOR YOU TO GET OUT OF THE RACE. SHOW SOME SELF RESPECT, RIGHT NOW MOST AMERICANS THINK YOU ARE A CHEAT, A LIAR AND A POWER GRABBING MEGLOMANIAC.
ALSO, YOU CANNOT WIN OVER JOHN MCCAIN THATS WHY ALL THE CONSERVATIVE TALK SHOW HOSTS ARE BACKING YOU…THEY ARE ALL REPUBLICANS AND ARE AFRAID OF SENATOR OBAMA.
THE LEADERS OF YOUR OWN PARTY, WHICH I BELIEVE YOU ARE DESTROYING, WILL TURN AGAINST YOU AT THE CONVENTION…IF NOT SOONER.

The Democrats will go down to one of the biggest defeats in their history, including losing Congress, if they nominate Obama. Sen. Clinton is ahead in the delegate count based on actual Democratic primary voters, excluding the caucus delegates. The latter were probably subject to various Obama influences, probably including financial.
Have you ever wondered where most of Obama’s money is really coming from, despite such sources being technically illegal?
Florida was clearly a contested primary, which Sen. Clinton won. She even won Michigan, where those that showed up had a chance to vote against her. It’s only Howard Dean and his ultra-liberal chronies on the DNC tried to come up with strategies that wouyld favor Obama, who they probably felt would be more on the “take” and would play games with their special interests.
Anonymous 1

We The People,
Count our votes, whoever wins, wins!
Remember Bush vs. Gore?
Count our votes!

This article is interesting. It amazes me how the news media is trying to find a story in every word and deed of a candidate. The contest is not over yet a lot of people have not voted yet and two states votes essentially are not counting. The news media needs to stop all this hype for all the candidates. Why doesn’t the media take a closer look and write about the millions of disenfranchised voters in Michigan and Florida.

if not for the republicans voting for hillary when they have no intention of voting for a dem come november…
this should be all the clues we need… the republicans arent scared of hillary and are doing everything in there power to make sure she will get her parties nod!
so they either believe she is one of them or believe they can easily beat her.
as to those that want to defend the system… trip, egg, suck…
it was re rigged in the recent past to prevent people like carter from geting a shot at it!!! like all our leaders hillary is for democracy until it gets in her way
people wake up there will be no difference if hillary or mcain get elected.

Sometimes reading these comments I wonder if anyone has a clue what is going on. Clinton is playing dirty tricks. She signed a paper like all other presidential candidates brought forward by the DNC, saying that if FLorida and Michigan choose to go against what the DNC said about moving there primary up, that no delegates would be seated and the candidates would not campaign. That is why Obama took his name off the ballot in Michigan. Now that Hillary is down on votes and is almost impossible to win unless Super delegates overturn it, which won’t happen, she wants to redo the states and re vote. She signed and agreed to the same thing all other dem. candidates did and now she wants to go back on her word.

Simply Folks:
State in short 3 reasons why you would vote for any of the three candidates, keep it short Dale.

This dogged insistence on self-vindication, claiming an advantage where there is none, and asserting opinion as fact has me mentally exhausted.
Maybe that’s their plan; to mentally exhaust voters into succumbing.
It reminds me of the scene from “Cool Hand Luke”, where during a pre-arranged brawl, Luke, clearly outclassed, refuses to concede victory–utterly incapable of imagining himself as the object of defeat.
Only he had class.

Wake up people! The GOP wants Hillary to win. They stand a far better chance of beating Hillary then Obama. The Dem party told FL and MI not to move their primaries, they did and it cost them their vote. The Dem party told ALL of the candidates that FL and MI votes would not count and to not campaign there. Everyone except HILLARY did this, and now SHE wants those votes to count.
Rush went on the air to tell people to vote for HILLARY, wake up people! She will not win, drop this nonsense and move on so we can save more of our soldiers!!

If pledged delegates vote how they want to vote, why the hell even have primaries! You can see we have some really stupid people out there…the pledged delegates will vote as pledged, period. Hillary just thinks she can stir up some drama and prolong this fight just because Bill has made many deals and promises to foreign nations when they assumed she was the front runner and would win.

It doesn’t matter which Democratic wins the nomination. Both Hillary and Obama will lose to John McCain in the end.

Gonzodex, glad to see some get it.
i suspect some of these people in here are for clinton only because it will help the repubicans…
i know life long republicans that voted for hillary and trust me it wont matter who the democrats run when november comes they will vote republican
funny, when progressives do something like this (game the system) were are talked about as if we were the scum of the earth when republicans/bad people do it “were just being smart”
hillary is just more proof of how little the differences are between the people in the 2 parties
the parties may be different but the folks in them are not

since when just cause you didn’t vote in tme means your vote doesn’t count? and why instead of having a re-vote? Obama keeps blocking that possibility? what is OBAMA AFRAID OF?….he’s being a HYPOCRITE by not allowing The Florida and Michigan state vote….WE WANT ANOTHER CROOK ON THE WHITE HOUSE? NO THANX…

Ethical lesson #1 for Hillary and Bill:
Just because you can do something does not mean you should.
What you are casually broaching here is subversion of the democratic process of our party.
Quit now. You can blame your failure on the imaginary sniper fire coming from the other side.

YOU WROTE: Clinton senior adviser Harold Ickes said, “No delegate is required by party rule to vote for the candidate for which they’re pledged.
Would you expect anything less from a MONSTER, and her surrogates.

Let’s face it…OBAMA is not liked by whites and Latinos..against Mccain that’s going to hurt him…sorry but the black dream of a black president is very much gone. next time pick a candidate without so many dirty liassons

Ross,
You sound like a scratched cd, saying the same thing over and over again. The thing is that you were probably educated in a government public school and you never learned that the USA is not a true democracy–never has been. We are a republic and therefore the popular vote does not decide who wins. Get over it-this is the way it is.

The Fog Of The Clintons
In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy.

All Obama supporters where are your values? Will you go to a church with your wife and children where you are taught hate instead of love, war instead of harmony, lies instead of truth? Barack Obama has proven himself to be without values by going to a church of that kind for 20 yaers. A president of the United States of America would stand up and defend America against the anti-American rantings of Rev. Wright, rather than sit in a pew and listen to it. Barack Obama, for 20 years, has supported the beliefs of a racist, Anti-American pastor and is not even willing to distance himself from this man or this church now. I am sure there are many Americans who now feel that they would have made a different choice regarding his candidacy.

to the person who said that if Obama had chipped away at her lead in Texas he would be more supportive.
Obama did more than ‘chip away’ at the 20% lead she started with in Texas. He ended up winning more delegates.

“I think what Mrs. Clinton was trying to make clear was that no delegate is required by party rules to vote for the candidate for which they’re pledged,” said Ickes. “I mean obviously circumstances can change, and people’s minds can change about the viability of a particular candidate and that’s permitted now under our rules ever since the 1980 convention.” Harold Ickes
Apparently they think people’s minds are going to change about Obama, she is wrong, but she will still try or she would not have mentioned this.

Nisha, I take it you only get your news from television. You obviously did not research Wright or view the sermons in question in their entirety. Because if you had, you’d know that he was not a racist and NOT anti-American. Seriously, how many of you idiots are out there???

You think that delegates from MICH will be seated when no one was supposed to even be on the ballot in MICH?
What delusion.
This is really great stuff. The Clintons are doing their horror show for all to see. I was in a hail of gun-fire.
No, you were given flowers by a child.
“I mis-spoke”. No, you lied. Liar, liar, no experience.
No security clearance.

oh god the reverend’s anti-americans are here…god help us from these terrorist!

UM he didn’t say his pastor was wrong..he said “you non-black people don’t know the black reality..what is like to be Black” if that’s not double-standard racism then I don’t what to tell you

Wowzer, It’s sad how clueless and ignorant most Americans are. Clearly, they need to go back to high school and take a Civics 101 class and learn about how our presidents are elected. It’s not a matter of popular vote, it’s a matter of the “electoral college,” who determines who our president will be. Despite long standing calls to do away with the electoral college, it will not happen. Both parties are too invested in the process to allow it to end, it’s the reason why they model the primary election with a similar process which uses “super delegates.” The current system we use works. People may not like it when their candidate is not elected, but our system works better than any other.

i love our country just as much as you. i just think we need to step back and pick a new direction for a country. one that doesn’t include killing 4000 of our own citizens for a pointless war that is only destablizing the middle east further and definitely not protecting our country read the news. there’s rioting in iraq and al qaeda is strong as ever.

“Obama and his pastor need to leave America if they hate so much our loving countru…GOD BLESS AMERICA D”
Good grief…
I say, that if everyone with an IQ of less than 80 would leave America, several post (like the above) would vanish, FOX news would go bankrupt from lack of viewers, and we could get on with the election by looking at the facts, not the “spin emotions” that seem to be so easy to use on people.

I am gay I know what is like to be discriminated OBAMA..I don’t need to be BLACK to know what it feels like…

DIdn’t realize how much Hillary Clinton hated Democracy until she campaigned for President. Now she’s acting more like Slick Hillary with all her mischaracterizations and lies about her experience. Let’s not forget she endorsed Bush’s War even though better experts on foreign policy such as former National Security Advisor to the HW Bush administration Lt. Col. Brent Scowcroft and long-time personal friend of HW Bush wrote in 2002 against invading Iraq and that it would detract from the War on Terror efforts.
George F. Kennan, architect of the successful Soviet Union containment policy spoke against invading Iraq as well.
But what did Hillary do? Trusted the inexperienced and biased foreign policy advisors from the Bush administration. No, I have no interest in voting for Hillary and if she wins the nomination, I’m voting for Ralph Nader.

Obama is an American Hater! Look At his SPIRITUAL ADVISOR DAMNing America! the prophecies were right..the Anti-Christ was gonna speak and seemingly unite others.. but the truth is uncovered OBAMA IS THE DEVIL!!!!

It was two months ago that I stood in line, waiting to cast my primary vote in the Republican primary. My state, you see, decided to move its primary past the date the Democratic National Committee set as the earliest a state could be allowed to hold its vote, barring cases such as Iowa and New Hampshire. As a first time voter, I was well aware of this, and knew that my vote, should it be for the Democrats, would play a minimal role in the entire election process, serving only to be a gauge of where Florida voters stood, lacking the campaigning received by the other states.
And so I cast my Republican vote, under the impression that, at the very least, my vote would help determine who was nominated as the Republican candidate; after all, at least some of Florida’s delegates would be seated with the Republicans.
Now, however, I am told of a do-over for the Democratic primary, one which will count and allow Florida’s delegates to be seated at the convention. Yet, if the primary is redone, I will not be allowed to take part in it, for I chose to cast a vote in one of the primaries that mattered. Nor, if the Democratic primary results from Florida are accepted, I will have not cast a vote where I truly desired to, for I, as well as twenty-six million other voters, were told that my Democratic vote would be meaningless.
If the delegates from Florida and Michigan are seated, I want my vote back, so that I can vote for who I truly wish to.

Obama is the new Britney it seems lol

Bonnie,
You seem angry that people are insinuating that Obama is a racist.
You then tell us to “shut the hell up and admit that we are racists” if we wonder about Obama or his pastor……..
Most of us learned long ago that, whether rightly or wrongly, we are often judged by the company we keep. That goes double for politicians and preachers!
It’s true that Jesus walked with sinners, but most of us are mere mortals and we have a lot to learn. We need discussion, not accusation.

Wowzer, It’s sad how clueless and ignorant most Americans are. Clearly, they need to go back to high school and take a Civics 101 class and learn about how our presidents are elected. It’s not a matter of popular vote, it’s a matter of the “electoral college,” who determines who our president will be. Despite long standing calls to do away with the electoral college, it will not happen. Both parties are too invested in the process to allow it to end, it’s the reason why they model the primary election with a similar process which uses “super delegates.” The current system we use works. People may not like it when their candidate is not elected, but our system works better than any other.
Steve, are you prepared to say that our system indeed works better than any other? The system works, yes, but could it be improved?
One specific feature of the electoral college system is how it keeps small, fringe groups from gaining a significant voice in American politics. This is a double-edged blade, however, as most policies are. While it keeps small, radical factions from building up their power, such as Neo-Nazi groups, it also seeks to preserve the status-quo, by not allowing groups to introduce change until a majority supports the cause.
As for whether or not the system is the best, that I would love to debate with you. However, I do not believe that to be possible at this moment.
May we meet again.

HRC will not win a general election against McCain. It’s as simple as that. When die-hard middle-aged, white, male, Democrats, like me, recoil in disgust from her and her selfish campaign she can kiss it goodbye. I have voted for Democrats in every election since 1976; if she is the nominee, I will sit home or write in Obama.
Let’s get real here; Hillary cares only about herself and her ambitions. She cares not one bit for the Party from who she seeks the nomination. If she did, she would quit this media fanned charade of hers. But no, she will tear the Democratic Party apart to fulfill her ambition without regard to the damage she is doing. If you want the GOP to consolidate and win the election, nominate Hillary. She’s the only thing that makes a McCain victory possible.
“It’s all about me”. Hillary Clinton

If we had Florida and Michigan re voting or having their delegates seated- we would have a clear winner- needing only a few superdelegates to put them over- by July. But the Obama campaign is blocking this.
Shame on the Media for not giving full and repeat coverage of what is going on behind the scenes with the Florida and Michigan re vote.
It is the voters who are being disenfranchised by the state legislatures (in Florida dominated by Republicans) and Howard Dean and the DNC. This is their fight over schedule and it is the voters who are paying the price.
If there is no re vote for Florida and Michigan- then John McCain will probably win the election because there will be a very negative cloud over the Democratic Nominee…

Desperate times call for desperate measures.
The fat lady is warming up

I don’t think Hillary will be the one to damage Obama. She may have to point things out given the media bias, etc. Obama was never on the national scene before and now that he is finally getting vetted, things will keep coming out. I don’t think he can win the WH this year with what has already come out. I think most people who aren’t blinded by the Obama light know that as well.

I can’ t understand how Hillary Clinton can accuse Sen. Obama of not wanting the voters of Michigan and Florida to be able to vote for the candidate of their choice and she states how they are being “disenfranchised” then say to all those voters who have voted in their Primaries/Caucuses that their vote can be overturned by the simple act of the Clinton Campaign saying “ your vote doesn’t count because you didn’t vote for Hillary, so we are going to ignore your votes and cause the delegates to switch to Hillary because she knows best!
This level of conceit and disregard for the rules is the reason we need to get George W. Bush out of the White House, why on earth would we want to replace him with the same thing, only this time in a pantsuit ?

If the delegates for Florida and Michigan are counted there should be another vote. I beleive Obama was not on the ballot in one of the states. That wouldnt be fair.

There is a lot of Buyer’s Remorse by Obama voters. Thanks goodness they can change their mind at the convention. Hooray for those who can stop the DNC from leading us over the cliff. The DNC has a history of choosing UNELECTABLE candidates. Obama can NEVER win in the GE and I sure hope the pledged delegates are waking up to this fact.

As for Richardson giving his approval to Obama, has anyone considered that he was up to the highest bidder? He had already been in the Clinton cabinet once and is obviously seeking the VEEP spot and when the Clintons wouldnt offer it to him, where else did he have to go. Don’t be surprised folks if he is your next VEEP…for Obama would then have most of the minorities to help him win against McCain, which might be the only way he can get elected.