Live-Blogging During Election-Night Returns by Rick Klein
Email12:07 am ET: That’s it for tonight — check back, as always, at The Note for a full wrap tomorrow….
11:46 pm ET: Obama runs against both candidates: "John McCain and Hillary Clinton have echoed each other, dismissing this call for change as eloquent yet empty."
11:41 pm ET: Win or lose, speech is the same — Obama’s audience is now those in the next round — Pennsylvania, we suppose. But the question becomes — do the words grow stale with time? We have seven weeks to find out…
11:39 pm ET: Sen. Obama hasn’t had to give a speech like this in a while — starts with congratulating Clinton, not declaring victory — and that’s the right tone. "No matter what happens tonight, we have nearly the same delegate lead as we did this morning," Obama says — that’s his argument moving forward, and he’s right.
11:20 pm ET: "Yes we will!" — now there’s your response to "yes we can." Crowd got it. Game. On.
11:20 pm ET: I can’t even remember the last time Sen. Clinton gave an election-night speech that even referenced that night’s elections. Was it Super Tuesday? And pay attention to this argument — she’s winning the states that matter, she’s arguing.
And "no time for speeches and on-the-job-training" when that phone rings at 3 am.
Just remember — an inspired Clinton is a tough thing to defeat. She can even be gracious tonight to Sen. Obama.
Clinton people are e-mailing me the same word: Re-start.
11:17 pm ET: Knock to rain on a parade that has every right to march, do recall that just a few weeks ago Bill Clinton was saying she needed to win OH and TX. She’s only halfway home — but all smiles this evening. "This nation’s coming back, and so is this campaign," Sen. Clinton says. "We’re going on, we’re going strong, and we’re going all the way."
11:15 pm ET: What will be interesting now is the bounce — things were turning, in tone and attitude, away from Obama’s favor in recent days, and that will only intensify now. This is a critical few days for Sen. Obama — how he copes with a setback that is every bit as serious as his loss in New Hampshire.
11:05 pm ET: ABC’s Eloise Harper summarizes the points being made by jubilant Clinton staffers:
"No matter how you look at it, this race is incredibly close, and given that the obama campaign expected to end the primary tonight and outspent us 2 to 1 in their effort to do so, this is a major setback for them.
"After 37 primaries and caucuses with record turnouts in which over 22 million people have voted, the difference in the popular vote count is razor thin.
"And with almost 3000 delegates awarded Senators Clinton and Obama are separated by less than 4% of the number of delegates.
"The fact that two-thirds of all voters who made up their minds in the final days leading up to March 4th voted for Hillary Clinton is a clear sign that we have momentum.
"Regardless of what happens tonight, this much is clear: voters don’t want a coronation and they want a candidate who is ready to manage the economy and be commander in chief on day one.
"The obama campaign should stop trying to end this race in the middle."
What do you think? None of this solves her math problem, but it does seem like it’s an excuse to move on to Pennsylvania at the very least.
10:49 pm ET: HUGE CALL — CLINTON TAKES OHIO. She breathes, yet. Now the argument is on — Democrats, we’ll hear, are having second thoughts…
10:48 pm ET: As we see Clinton build up a vote lead in Ohio, I think we can confidently predict that the Democratic race is not ending this evening. Anyone disagree?
10:40 pm ET: ABC’s Eloise Harper reports that Sen. Clinton has also placed a congratulatory phone call to Sen. McCain.
10:37 pm ET: Clinton campaign complaints about the TX caucuses continue. This memo just out from the campaign: "The campaign legal hotline has been flooded with calls containing specific accusations of irregularities and voter intimidation against the Obama campaign. This activity is undemocratic, probably illegal, and reflects a wanton disregard for the caucus process."
10:20 pm ET: Ron Paul survives in the primary in his congressional district. Still waiting on Dennis Kucinich among that other presidential/congressional candidate.
10:08 pm ET: From ABC’s David Wright: "By contrast things are very quiet here in San Obamaland. People just trickling in, presumably from the caucuses. They are patiently watching CNN, and not making much noise. No sign at all of the campaign heavies. As in NH, they have disappeared and appear to be off biting their nails somewhere, sending out hopeful emails when nudged. Obama is still at his hotel and won’t be here for at least an hour."
10:01 pm ET: Classic that McCain claims "hope" mantle. Still have a sense that he thinks he knows who his opponent will be.
9:59 pm ET: Signs (literally) that Clinton will fight on — from ABC’s Kate Snow: "In the sea of signs here in the Clinton ballroom in Columbus, Ohio there’s a hand-written sign that stands out– "Meet me in Indiana!"
"Indiana’s democratic primary will be held on May sixth.
"The crowd here went wild when CNN, being shown on a giant screen, projected Rhode Island for Clinton. It is her first victory after a string of twelve losses.
"Down at the end of the room, behind the empty podium that awaits Senator Clinton’s appearance later, there’s a group of rowdy supporters who from time to time launch into a call-back cheer– the kind boot camp instructors yell out.
" "H-I-L-L-A-R-Y!" yells one side of the room, echoed by the other… "H-I-L-L-A-R-Y!" "She’s much better than the guys!" "C-L-I-N-T-O-N!" "We won’t stop until she wins!" "Hillary!" "Our nominee!" "HRC!" "To victory!" "
9:58 pm ET: From ABC’s Ron Claiborne: "McCain in victory speech tackling Iraq issue head-on … defending going to war but saying debate should not be over the past but what to do now … Laying the groundwork for what will be his argument that the surge is working and the war can and must be won to quash Al Qaeda in Iraq. McCain knows war is unpopular — and he’s potentially vulernable for his support of it — so he wants to make the issue about whether the US finishes the job, win with honor, then withdraw most troops."
9:54 pm ET: "Now we begin the most important part of our campaign," McCain says. And he starts with a vigorous defense of his position on Iraq. Ready for a national-security campaign, anyone?
9:49 pm ET: ABC’s Sunlen Miller reports that Obama called McCain from his hotel (the Marriott in San Antonio) at 8:30 Central, congratulated him and said he’s looking forward to running against him in the fall campaign.
9:24 pm ET: ABC’s Gary Langer has some interesting data points, none of which are encouraging for Obama: "Latinos turned out in big numbers in the Texas Democratic primary, accounting for a record 30 percent of voters, up from 24 percent in 2004 â second only this cycle to New Mexico, and matching California. They went nearly 2-1 for Clinton, 63-35 percent, a crucial element for her."
"An additional 19 percent were African-Americans â roughly matching their 2004 turnout, but well down from their 34 percent share in Texas in 1984, when Jesse Jackson ran. Obama won 85 percent of blacks in Texas. Clinton won white women by 19 points; white men, a swing group in many Democratic primaries this year, split evenly between the two."
"As in Ohio, the gap between âchangeâ and âexperienceâ as top attributes was narrower than in most primaries, a 17-point margin for âchange,â 44-27 percent, the fewest to pick change as the top attribute in any primary save Arkansas. Obama won âchangeâ voters by 72-27 percent, while those more concerned with experience went for Clinton almost unanimously, 91-8 percent."
9:21 pm ET: ABC projects that CLINTON HAS WON THE RHODE ISLAND PRIMARY. Off the schnide, and it’s a 1-1 tie today. They can start breathing again at Clinton HQ. But Texas and Ohio loom.
9:20 pm ET: Huckabee concedes: "It looks pretty apparent tonight that he will in face achieve 1191 delegates."
9:18 pm ET: ABC’s John Berman reports that GOP sources confirm John McCain will visit the White House tomorrow. ABC’s Jennifer Duck says this will be an endorsement event. The pieces are falling into place.
And what’s with this long Huckabee baseball imagery?
9:13 pm ET: AP reports that McCain has passed the magic number of 1,191 delegates, for what it’s worth. (ABC’s count is a bit different because we haven’t contacted as many former Romney delegates as the AP.) It’s as official as it’s going to get before the convention: John McCain will be the Republican nominee for president. And we’re really no closer at this hour to knowing who he’ll face, which must bring a smile to his face.
9:10 pm ET: These are edgy, tense moments at the Clinton campaign — the hour or two that determines a political legacy. It still seems at this moment like the campaign will continue — one victory being the new (low) bar. But it will be anxious at Camp Clinton until or unless she breaks the 12-loss streak.
9 pm ET: Polls close in two more states, and ABC News projects that MCCAIN WILL WIN THE RHODE ISLAND AND TEXAS PRIMARIES. So that makes it a clean sweep on McCain’s clinching night — know Huck-a-distractions on the horizon.
And now Ohio can start rolling in, with polls there closed (albeit late).
8:50 pm ET: ABC’s Kevin Chupka reports that the end of Huckabee’s road is very, very near: "According to a senior Huckabee staffer the plan is for Huckabee to return to Little Rock late tonight and speak with Senator John McCain tomorrow during the day to discuss his concession plans. He knows it’s over but wants to concede in such a way as to be in line with his party’s candidate."
8:44 pm ET: Clinton campaign is organizing a conference call at this hour to try to stir the pot on the Texas caucus system. Not the first time we’ve heard them make noise about possible irregularities — legit or not (and there seems to be something there) this is pre-spin, in case she loses badly there.
8:25 pm ET: ABC’s Kevin Chupka catches up with Huckabee adviser Ed Rollins: When I asked him about tonight’s speech and what to expect going forward he said "congrats to mccain and figure out next steps tomorrow." So tomorrow it is…
8:19 pm ET: ABC’s Kate Snow reports that Bill Clinton did 50 (5-oh) local media interviews today. That’s a lot, even by his machine-like standards. Think he wants this?
8:17 pm ET: A few interesting things out of Ohio, as we wait for results — which will have to wait until at least 9 pm, because at least one county has extended voting. Union turnout was down a bit from expectations. Clinton seems to have regained the edge she’s had in the past among female voters — that’s huge for her, for obvious reasons. And the economy was the biggest issue in Ohio, as expected. I think it’s fair to say that Sen. Clinton would like a few more Ohios in the union.
8:14 pm ET: ABc’s Jay shaylor weighs in with some color from an independent candidate: "Long-shot presidential candidate Ralph Nader and an aide came into the Amtrak Acela lounge at NYC’s Penn Station about 15 minutes ago, waiting to board an 8:15pm train to DC.
"The aide suggested they sit in an area where CNN is on and carrying primary voting analysis and results.
"Nader shook his head and indicated he wasn’t at all interested. He opted for a seat in the one corner of the room without a view of the TV."
7:57 pm ET: Sort of a lull in the action now as we wait for the poll closings in the last two states — and for vote counts in Ohio. It just feels (and it’s just a feeling) at this point that this evening isn’t going to wrap anything up. Keep in mind that the Clinton campaign will jump on any shred of good news to stay in the mix…
7:36 pm ET: From ABC’s Ron Claiborne: "It’s 6:25 pm Central time and John McCain is the projected winner of primaries in Vermont and Ohio, the balloons in the huge ballroom of the Fairmont Hotel in Dallas are suspended from the ceiling in nets, primed for their triumphant descent when/if McCain claims the Republican nomination tonight … and, discounting media members, there’s barely a half-dozen people here. Could McCain’s long road back from near oblivion last summer to sewing up the GOP nomination actually turn out to be somewhat anti-climatic?"
7:30 pm ET: ABC CALLS OHIO FOR MCCAIN. Another nail is hammered in Huckabee’s coffin — the real quesiton is will he get out tomorrow or Thursday? And no call yet on the Democratic side — here’s guessing there won’t be a call for a while yet in this always-interesting state.
7:03 pm ET: Vermont, of course, is among the most liberal states. But this could matter for the delegate edge — an early close means Obama could run up the margin there, and build on his delegate lead.
7 pm ET: Right at poll closing — ABC is calling VERMONT FOR BARACK OBAMA. Not a suprise — but that makes it an even dozen, 12 in a row for Obama. It also eliminates a piece of Clinton’s slim margin for error. It gives Obama some positive news coverage early this evening — but Ohio and Texas, of course, will dominate all.
Also, McCain adds to his margin with the Vermont victory. Whatever happens on the Democratic side, this could be Huckabee’s last gasp this evening.
6:57 pm ET: We have PRELIMINARY exit polls – updated through 5 pm ET, but as a policy, we don’t discuss them in terms of winners and losers until after state poll closing times have passed. We don’t have access to them, incidentally, until after 5 pm, to reduce the opportunities for slips.
6:19 pm ET: Kevin — the cancellation factor among races — Latinos and black voters essentially washing each out out, is something I’ve heard from a number of smart Texas hands. That leaves it with white Democrats in Texas, a rapidly changing and unpredictable bunch.
6:06 pm ET: LESD — you make a valid point — of course she can stay in as long as she wants, just like Ron Paul. But in a sense, after today, for the next seven weeks at least the only voters that matter are the superdelegates — themselves a politically savvy bunch. Those who are still undecided are particularly cautious — they want to be with a winner. If there’s no clear victor tonight, might most of them remain on the sideliens?
5:56 pm ET: A fascinating early read on exit polls, from ABC’s Gary Langer: "The theme of change continues to resonate in Ohio and Texas, but not by as wide a margin as in most previous primaries. The ability to ‘bring needed change’ beats ‘experience’ as the most important quality in a candidate by about a 20-point margin in Ohio and by about 15 points in Texas, according to preliminary exit poll results. . . . Across all previous primaries this year, by contrast, ‘change’ has beaten ‘experience’ by 31 points."
Hmmm — who’s sweating those numbers?
5:37 pm ET: A key point in interpreting tonight — is there room in this race for another Clinton comeback? At this point, it wouldn’t shock anyone to have another unexpeted turn — but this would be a new role for her. How does it fit?
4:53 pm ET: Regarding Ty’s comment — 100 percent of the delegates would do it — but that’s not plausible. Generally, if Obama gets just 15 percent in jurisdictions, he’d get at least one delegate. Clinton would have to win contests almost literally 70-30 to make up the gap in pledged delegates.
And yes, Florida and Michigan provide intriguing possibilities — but I don’t see that getting settled short of an agreement to re-vote.
————–
Rick Klein from ABC’s The Note here — I’ll be live-blogging this evening as the returns roll in from Texas, Ohio, Rhode Island, and Vermont.
A quick thought before we get any numbers in — I’m amazed at how successfully the Clinton campaign has calibrated expectations. Just a few weeks ago, no less an authority than Bill Clinton was saying that Ohio and Texas were both must-wins for his wife. Now, the Clinton campaign has laid the groundwork to stay in the race even if she loses one of the two states she’s pinned all her hopes on. Her play is for momentum, not even delegates, and that’s an argument that can get traction — even if it can’t last forever.
Essentially, if she pulls off even one win (Texas or Ohio), expect the Clinton campaign to argue that, a) Democrats are having serious second thoughts; b) too many questions remain about Barack Obama, questions that will only grow more urgent with time; c) Obama couldn’t compete against John McCain because he can’t put away Clinton; and d) therefore, remaining states (and lots and lots of superdelegates) should go with Clinton to save the party in 2008.
Hillary Clinton still has a very serious math problem: Almost regardless of what happens today and in the dwindling number of remaining states, she will be behind Obama in delegates when the process ends. But that’s not the end of the race, not necessarily. And the fact that we’re even considering this thing wide open, after Obama’s run of 11 straight victories, is fairly incredible.
Should be an interesting night. Thoughts? What does Hillary Clinton have to do to stay in the mix? Will it matter if she’s still behind substantially in terms of delegates? And who — if anyone — would ever be able to prevail on her to get out of Obama’s way, should it come to that?
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With the constant resetting of the goal posts, it would appear that the Clinton campaign thinks it can stay in no matter what the results from today’s voting.
I continue to think the negativity of the past couple of weeks — seems like a month — has hurt Hillary more than it has Barack Obama. I can’t imagine another month of “Shame On You” doing anything but hurting Clinton and the party’s momentum moving toward November.
But, we’ll have to see how the tally goes. Then, as others have mentioned, II think the pressure will come from outside the two campaigns to inject some realism into the mix.
Posted by: Jackt51 | March 4, 2008, 4:29 pm 4:29 pm
Considering the delegate math, it seems like Clinton’s best–if not only–hope is to find some plausible rationale for staying in the race (a win anywhere tonight for example). Then she just has to hope that the Obama campaign makes a huge mistake or some other significant outside event fundamentally alters the race. If that happened, the superdelegates could always swing her way, even if there aren’t enough pledged delegates to clinch it.
Is that accurate? If the results are split tonight and Clinton won even 100% of remaining delegates, would that be enough?
Although that’s not likely, what reason does she have to get out if she does find that rationale, however weak it might be? Some vague notion of a damaged legacy seems like a risk she’d take for a while if the gamble could win her the nomination.
Posted by: Ty Parker | March 4, 2008, 4:34 pm 4:34 pm
I think Obama supporters are worried, and they should be. He peaked, and now it’s all down HILL for him, as of yesterday….
Posted by: Democrat 08 | March 4, 2008, 4:42 pm 4:42 pm
Eventually Camp Clinton will run out of field on which to move the goalposts back.
Unfortunately for the Democrats I expect tonight to be a draw with them splitting the states.
Of course 2 weeks ago Ohio and Texas were Clintons firewall. Now that the firewall isn’t holding they are attempting to redefine.
It will be interesting to see if Richardson comes out tomorrow with an endorsement as he indicated whoever had the most delegates after today should be the nominee. The GOP has to be loving this………………
Posted by: korey | March 4, 2008, 4:42 pm 4:42 pm
Team McCain is loving this. Team Clinton pulls a first-rate hatchet-job (BO in Somali clothing; red phone; “just a speech”; Rezko; NAFTA/Canada; “as far as I know”; darker skin in ad) to destroy the Democratic Party’s great hope at overwhelming victory in November and, in the process, reinforces all of the negative perceptions about herself.
And even still, the best case scenario for Team Clinton is a result which requires (1) superdelegates negating the choice of elected delegates and/or (2) changing the rules for FL/MI.
Either way this shakes out, Team McCain is licking its chops over the prospect of a weakened Democratic opponent and party overall, all thanks to Team Clinton.
I’m embarassed to be a Democrat.
Posted by: Vote4BO | March 4, 2008, 4:44 pm 4:44 pm
Florida and Michigan
They will be at convention, whether with new delegates, the ones they have now or revoted for, but they will be at convention.
There’s lots of MATH left for a Clinton win.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 4:46 pm 4:46 pm
The Obama camp is trying to create a wave of opinion to force Sen. Clinton out. LET THE PEOPLE VOTE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. Stop trying to predetermine the outcome. Clinton is right–the media is FINALLY beginning to apply a modicum of scrutiny to Obama. He is whispering to Canada. Has never held hearings on Afghanisan despite his subcommittee chairmanship. He has deep ties to a crooked campaign contributor. He has very little record of accomplishment despite an attractive life story. He has no experience with national security issues. People will have second thoughts now that the halo is dimming and people can see that there’s no there there.
Posted by: roger | March 4, 2008, 4:46 pm 4:46 pm
I agree. The Clintons really did a hatchet job on Obama. They are only making it easier for the Republicans to hold on to power. Obama should ahve tossed this “no negative” crap and uncovered all her skeletons. God knows no one in politics has more than the Clintons have. Are you seriously telling me that Bill hasn’t slept with another woman since he left the White House? What about her tax returns?
Posted by: Kevin | March 4, 2008, 4:49 pm 4:49 pm
I have no problem with letting the voters decide based on the rules agreed to by the candidates.
The PROBLEM is Camp Clinton keeps want to CHANGE the rules after they agreed to them because things aren’t going their way; seating delegates in states they promised not to campaign in, threatening lawsuits and legal action in states that they view as unfavorable (Nevada and now Texas), trying to tell people the Automatic Delegates (known to most as Super Dels) had a responsibility NOT to the voters but to the party………………..
BY ALL MEANS let the voters decide but that IS NOT want Camp CLinton wants UNLESS it comes down on their side. Hypocritical as it gets…………
Posted by: korey | March 4, 2008, 4:51 pm 4:51 pm
I have no problem with letting the voters decide based on the rules agreed to by the candidates.
The PROBLEM is Camp Clinton keeps want to CHANGE the rules after they agreed to them because things aren’t going their way; seating delegates in states they promised not to campaign in, threatening lawsuits and legal action in states that they view as unfavorable (Nevada and now Texas), trying to tell people the Automatic Delegates (known to most as Super Dels) had a responsibility NOT to the voters but to the party………………..
BY ALL MEANS let the voters decide but that IS NOT want Camp CLinton wants UNLESS it comes down on their side. Hypocritical as it gets…………
Posted by: korey | March 4, 2008, 4:51 pm 4:51 pm
attn vote4bo
and by the way, this applies if it is hillary or obama. keep your chin up!
proud to be a democrat
Posted by: lori | March 4, 2008, 4:57 pm 4:57 pm
As up to 60% of voters in Texas and 35% of voters in OH voted early, I have to think that we should be very careful reading anything one way or another into exit polls. Will the media should more restraint than usual?
Posted by: Jessica | March 4, 2008, 5:00 pm 5:00 pm
The obama people are trying to end the game regardless of the rules. Superdelegates can vote however they want, yet the obama people are acting as though it’s illegitimate for them to vote any way but to follow the pledged delegates. Them’s NOT the rules. Supers can vote however they think best. Otherwise they wouldn’t exist, and only pledged delegates could matter. The Obama worshipers can’t seem to see through their Kool-Aid vapors that real people with real jobs who have been hurt bad by the Bush years need a president who is a fighter, who is experienced, who can protect America. Not just someone who gives a nice speech but who hasn’t actually done anything worthy of note. Name 5 things he’s done as a community organizer, state senator, and US senator that is worthy of note and then makes him a worthy candidate for President. The vapors are clearing. People will see that Clinton is the best choice to be beat McCain and to be President.
Posted by: roger | March 4, 2008, 5:04 pm 5:04 pm
Hatchet job? do you people even follow politics? it’s not the clinton people who lied about the Obama campaign’s secret meeting with Canada telling them not to worry about what lies Obama campaigns on. it’s not the clinton people who took loads of money from corrupt Rezko. it’s not the clinton people who are trying to end the primaries before all the votes are in. if the obama people are so delicate they can’t take any criticism–even though the media has been nothing but fawning!–they will never last in the general election. politics is not sport. it is not idol worshipping. it is a tough business that requires thick skin. Obama is just not up to it. he is not ready to be President. Stop whining and get used to the fact that he has peaked and Clinton will win the nomination, despite the Obama-media conspiracy to drive her out prematurely.
Posted by: pinkberry | March 4, 2008, 5:08 pm 5:08 pm
How can you say you’re proud to be a Dem?
You’ve got Team McCain out there actively criticizing the right-wing crazies who go below-the-belt on Obama and, at the same time, our own Team Clinton is using every dirty trick in the book when it’s already too late for her to win in a legitimate fashion. What’s there to be proud of?
If Obama loses to Team Clinton, all Obama supporters should hold their fire, let Team Clinton get waxed by Team McCain, and then come back with a vengeance to support Obama again in 2012.
Posted by: Vote4BO | March 4, 2008, 5:10 pm 5:10 pm
It appears that Hillary has a good shot at winning Ohio and Rhode Island. Texas is also possible. Therefore I don’t look for her to quit after today.
Unfortunately what this comeback shows is that negative campaigning works. That, to me, is the fault of the voters.
Posted by: Tom Joad47 | March 4, 2008, 5:14 pm 5:14 pm
It’s time for us to moved to phase 2
Mending the party
Mrs Clinton will you please step aside if you do not win Texas and Ohio by large margins.
For once listen to your husband and the your party, so we can start working on John Mccain.
I lost respect for your husband, after he gave George Bush the baton, instead of handing it intact to Al Gore .
I still have respect for you at this time.
Think of the American People that you care so much about.
Hold your head high and pass the baton.
Posted by: mugzinnys | March 4, 2008, 5:16 pm 5:16 pm
Obama HAS WON 25 STATES and clinton 12
Bottom line: The clinton’s will do anything for power-including handing the executive mansion back to the Republicans:
FOR MORE WARS
When the clinton’s were in the executive mansion they kicked ALL the senators in the testicles…and handed congress over to Gingrich and Dole…because they are genius lawyers who know everything and the bodies just keep piling up…
With the bushies in power they utilize entrenched hard-liners and create a ‘priesthood’ that isolates the administration and freezes out dissent.
Barack Obama DOES NOT think he is a genius…as if the congress won’t work with a President who actually respects them and does’t think HE IS A KING.
If ever we required a TEAM WORKING TOGETHER- IT IS NOW…divide and conquer IS KILLING US…we have to unite and govern…
bush clinton bush clinton got us here
HERE AIN’T ANY GOOD…
VOTE CHANGE
Posted by: Liam Brent kelly | March 4, 2008, 5:19 pm 5:19 pm
Hillary, she is a fighter sort of like a pit bull.
Posted by: America | March 4, 2008, 5:25 pm 5:25 pm
Roger, understand you support Hillary and not Obama – no problem there. But as a neutral, it concerns me that the Clinton camp:
1) want to reseat Fla/Mic delegates despite agreeing to their exclusion at the outset
2) threaten possible legal action over Texas’ primary setup
3) could easily dismiss today’s results if not up to expectations, prolonging the race to the detriment of the Democratic party.
If the roles were reversed, would you be as happy about
Obama doing all of the above as you are for your chosen candidate?
Posted by: Aka | March 4, 2008, 5:26 pm 5:26 pm
Yep and if Florida and Michigan revote who do you think they’ll vote for? My bet is Clinton would get even more delegates than she has now.
If I were Barack, i’d say leave the delegates as they are and let them come.
If he doesn’t how easy is it to campagn against someone who wanted to disenfranchise you.
As it stands now he probably would get most of the undeclared from Mimchigan if he let them in and most of Edwards delegates from Florida.
If there is a redo, looking more and more like a primary by the way, Clinton gets to put her own delegates inthose spots.
There’s a lot of math there for Clinton from between 100 delegates advantage now to probably more than that in redo primary.
And if you are the govenor of either of these states, that’s money well spent with focus on your state and all kinds of money pouring in for hotels meals ads etc.
Florida and Michigan will revote and deliver Clinton the nomination. Like I said, if I were Barack, I’d say let them in as is.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 5:26 pm 5:26 pm
Hillary should keep going it helps Obama with how to defend against McCain.
Posted by: America | March 4, 2008, 5:27 pm 5:27 pm
Ok pinkberry.
I gather you would vehemently oppose any candidate who takes money from corrupt businessmen, or who says conflicting things about NAFTA.
See my point? Even if everything Team Clinton says about Obama is true, she’s got all of the same problems, amplified exponentially, in a matchup with McCain.
If you truly wanted your beloved Team Clinton to beat McCain, you would not want her out there berating Obama on issues that are even worse for Team Clinton.
It’s pure destructive lunacy, and Karl Rove could not have designed it better himself.
Posted by: Vote4BO | March 4, 2008, 5:28 pm 5:28 pm
Hey Rick – Checking in for the early scoop. Someone usurped my handle above, but lack my eloquence (IMHO). I think Clinton should be allowed to ponder tonight’s results carefully and make her decision. I think she must win both TX and OH, at least in the pop. vote to make any case for going on. If she doesn’t do that, then PA looks iffy as does any chance of the FL/MI re-vote making a difference. Once again, the demo breakdowns will tell the better part of the story. Early data suggests strong Independent turnout in the Dem. primaries (20-25% in OH and TX, respectively).
Posted by: Kevin | March 4, 2008, 5:29 pm 5:29 pm
In politics Rules are rules until there not Rules anymore
Posted by: Bishop | March 4, 2008, 5:30 pm 5:30 pm
Mr. ‘Open Government’ making back room deals with foreign nations.
Mr. “Integrity” having questionable land deals with a known slumlord.
Mr. “Let’s focus on Afghanistan” never having a single hearing about it in his NATO committee. He don’t care USA’s safety, his election first.
—————————
Obama still have so called
“Mr. Hope”
“Mr. Change”
“Mr. future”
The hotair balloons are blowing up now.
Posted by: larratta | March 4, 2008, 5:33 pm 5:33 pm
America – You’ve got it all wrong. By doing it themselves, Team Clinton legitimizes all of these negative attacks for McCain’s use in the general (“If it’s OK for Team Clinton to say, then it’s OK for us”).
If Team Clinton had stayed positive, then Obama would be able to paint Team McCain and the republicans as the negative ones. Now, Team Clinton has endorsed these negative attacks, freeing Team McCain from any back-lash when he recycles them over the next few months.
Posted by: Vote4BO | March 4, 2008, 5:33 pm 5:33 pm
As far as Obama winning more states, how many Idaho caucuses does it take to equal a California primary?
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 5:34 pm 5:34 pm
Liam,
Many of the states that Obama has won will go Republican in the General, (Alaska and Utah, for starters,) while Los Angeles County is bigger than another four or five “states” that Obama is credited with winning.
If we take all of the large counties in California, and look at them as if they were states, then your whole mathematical arguement is moot.
Let’s talk about the toss-up states, where the real interesting dialog exists.
Will Texas go Democratic in the General? How about Florida?
Posted by: OhioNative | March 4, 2008, 5:35 pm 5:35 pm
Larratta – How many national security crises has Hillary personally handled, ever? That’s right. Zero. The same number as Laura Bush.
Posted by: Vote4BO | March 4, 2008, 5:36 pm 5:36 pm
A CEO of the International Profit Associates, who is a disbarred lawyer also has a criminal record. The IPA firm does have a civil suit against it since 2001 in an ongoing investigation. The charges in the suit are brought on by 103 female employees who were subjected to Degrading anti-female rhetoric, Explicit type of Language that created a HOSTILE working environment, and assault. The Firm denies everything but with the top CEO with a criminal record I believe the 103 female employees. Why is this information IMPORTANT? Because it was reported in the news on February 29 2008 that Hillary had received donations from this company and it’s top employees of the IPA Firm and continues with that Companies support. As a woman, I cannot vote for Hillary since she ignores the 103 Female Employees.
Posted by: Angie | March 4, 2008, 5:37 pm 5:37 pm
Liam – Do you really think that everyone who voted for Team Clinton in California will stay home or vote McCain? Primary voters who go blue in blue states stay blue for the general election. Primary voters who go blue in red states only stay blue for the general election if their primary candidate is there.
Posted by: Vote4BO | March 4, 2008, 5:40 pm 5:40 pm
Angie – You can add that BILL CLINTON is a disbarred lawyer with a bit of a record of his own, i.e. lying under oath.
Posted by: Vote4BO | March 4, 2008, 5:43 pm 5:43 pm
So I get it we set the primary up until june just to be doing something lets take it to the end. Those are the real rules
Posted by: Bishop | March 4, 2008, 5:46 pm 5:46 pm
Rush, who gave us 8 years of Bush endorsed Hillary. That’s all you need to know to vote for Obama.
Posted by: John | March 4, 2008, 5:47 pm 5:47 pm
IF anyone IS suggesting that Obama WILL NOT win California in the general- they need a new prescription
Posted by: Liam Brent Kelly | March 4, 2008, 5:47 pm 5:47 pm
Liam, Texas will go GOP in the general. Same with Florida
Posted by: MFM | March 4, 2008, 5:48 pm 5:48 pm
Today’s primary election Victory on all four states goes to Hillary Clinton!
Barack Hussein Obama and his cult will have to hide tonight.
Hey pinkberry,
I solute you for giving such details to Obamaies:
“Hatchet job? do you people even follow politics? it’s not the clinton people who lied about the Obama campaign’s secret meeting with Canada telling them not to worry about what lies Obama campaigns on. it’s not the clinton people who took loads of money from corrupt Rezko. it’s not the clinton people who are trying to end the primaries before all the votes are in. if the obama people are so delicate they can’t take any criticism–even though the media has been nothing but fawning!–they will never last in the general election. politics is not sport. it is not idol worshipping. it is a tough business that requires thick skin. Obama is just not up to it. he is not ready to be President. Stop whining and get used to the fact that he has peaked and Clinton will win the nomination, despite the Obama-media conspiracy to drive her out prematurely.”
Posted by: jmaya, iowa | March 4, 2008, 5:49 pm 5:49 pm
Latest polls show Dem voters 2-1 want the race to continue and it should. All the voters should be allowed to cast their vote and be counted.
This primary race is very tame compared to past races. They are both trying to win of course. The pundits are correct – this is nothing compared to the onslaught that will happen with the general election. The RNC machine has been manipulating things since last June but most new voters cannot see it. It is called divide and conquer people. It is the RNC’s only shot at winning. Try ignoring campaign bias, tactics, and rhetoric completely. Try ignoring the MSM bias completely.
Search Vote Smart to find the organizations website for unbiased facts and make the smart choice. Dont let the media and the RNC tactics make us lemmings! The voters and the SD’s will settle this at the convention the way it should be… by the rules agreed on to start with. The unity ticket is the answer! (The RNC fears that the most.) One should be nominee and the other should be running mate. Then everyone gets closure and the party unites to beat the Reps.
Posted by: DCVoter | March 4, 2008, 5:50 pm 5:50 pm
How will Dems vote if Clinton or Obama get the nomination?
Posted by: MFM | March 4, 2008, 5:55 pm 5:55 pm
Time for Obama to remove the gloves and throttle Mrs. Clinton as the baggage-laden, dissembling, new-persona-every-day, poll-driven, triangulating divider and hypocrite she really is.
Bring up all of the warts and corruption of the Clinton years, the healthcare debacle, Vince Foster, TravelGate, Whitewater, the missing tax returns, emails and documents, the chameleon-like persona, etc., etc., etc., ad naseum….
If she wants zero-sum, scorched-earth politics, GIVE THEM TO HER! She’ll go down like a sack of dog chow.
Take off the gloves, Barack; America will forgive you. We know how hard you’ve tried to keep it clean, but there are too many snakes in the cesspool.
**FRY ‘EM**
Posted by: Mark | March 4, 2008, 5:57 pm 5:57 pm
Angie – I am a woman and activist so I understand your concern.
If you ignore the spin you are being fed on that issue, the facts are:
The EEOC filed suit against IPA on behalf of some women who worked there in 2000-2001.
IPA responded by immediately handling the situation and bringing in and independent organization to restructure their management practices.
Since that time there have been zero unresolved issues relating to discrimination or sexual harassment at IPA.
The EEOC after 6 years is still unable to win a case against IPA.
Companies are not guilty of practices just because they are accused of them. They admit there was a problem but they handled it immediately and have proven that. I think 6 years is a long enough time to be vetted.
As a woman, I agree with the Clinton camp. Unless IPA is proven guilty of wrongdoings, there is no reason to reject its contributions. They have stated that if things change they will certainly take appropriate action.
This is not a case where the candidate was involved in anything and not a case where a contributor has been found guilty of anything. It is all RNC spin.
Posted by: DCVoter | March 4, 2008, 6:00 pm 6:00 pm
What does she need tonight to stay in the race? Nothing. Ron Paul is still in the race, and Clinton can stay in too.
But what would it take to make her the Democratic nominee? The super delegates would have to ignore the fact that Senator Obama will have more pledged delegates and have won the popular vote in more states. Michigan and Florida aren’t coming back, because there is no viable compromise position to bring them back.
Senator Clinton may “survive” tonight and find a rationale to stay in the race. That doesn’t mean she will be the Democratic nominee. I am not a Clinton hater. I think she’s a good candidate and a very impressive human being. But unless someone has video of Senator Obama shooting heroin with Tony Rezko on the L train, she can’t win. The math is the math is the math.
Posted by: LESD | March 4, 2008, 6:03 pm 6:03 pm
MFM – If the RNC tactics are successful, disgruntled Dems will vote for McCain. I saw an article somewhere (cant find it) where the rep strategists think 25% of the current Dem vote will defect to McCain. Another stated 10% of the current Dem vote are republicans intentionally crossing over that plan to vote for McCain in the GE.
If the Dems and Indies and Reps who are truly supporting Dem candidates will come together and stop the RNC tactics at the convention. The unity ticket will beat McCain.
Posted by: DCVoter | March 4, 2008, 6:07 pm 6:07 pm
Reading exit poll tea leaves and ratios, mathematically speaking the Latino and African-American vote are basically canceling each other out. Therefore it is the split of white votes which will likely determine the outcome.
Posted by: Kevin | March 4, 2008, 6:18 pm 6:18 pm
Hillary should not exit this race unless she looses both Ohio and Texas. It seems to me that the momentum of Obama is stalling at least. Also, the Florida governor seemed to suggest that he would be willing to consider a ‘re-do’ primary as opposed to a caucus which benefits Clinton. I really can’t see Obama beating McCain in the General Election and I think that if Hillary wins both big states tonight that the remaining superdelegates will seriously look at this.
Posted by: Louise | March 4, 2008, 6:18 pm 6:18 pm
It is particularly difficult for me to understand why Hillary, or her supporters, who are all supposedly Democrats would want to “Swiftboat” the Democrats first real chance at winning the White House in 8 Years. If there is no chance and this is ripping the party apart and giving the Repulicans an opportunity to take the election then I’m sorry I just don’t get it!! What is this win at any cost? I sure hope the Democrat party is not this stupid….otherwise they deserve to lose.
Posted by: John | March 4, 2008, 6:20 pm 6:20 pm
According to exits, Latinos are 2-1 Clinton and 30% of vote vs. African-Americans 4-1 Obama and 20% of vote. I saw an interesting post that RI exits showed a horse race there? Heard anything?
Posted by: Kevin | March 4, 2008, 6:23 pm 6:23 pm
vote4bo- you sound like a ‘pub now. whatever hillary is doing in desperation doesnt have to hurt obama against mccain. just think of it as warm up for obama. i am proud of dems ’cause they look out for all americans not just the richest of the rich. and maybe they dont get a lot done with the moron in the whitehouse but atleast their hearts are warm not cold.
and i am from michigan and i was an edwards supporter and if i could re vote it would be obama, just for the record.
Posted by: lori | March 4, 2008, 6:29 pm 6:29 pm
LESD – I played with the numbers on delegates and SD’s… it is possible for either of them to be an outright nominee but not before the convention because that is when the official delegate and SD votes are cast. Remember, the system is designed so that votes can be changed by delegates and SD although there is not usually much shift of pledged delegate votes. The SD’s have stated their job is to use their best judgement for the good of the party and cast votes for those who did not vote basically. Best judgement includes consideration for electoral picture as well as for a candidate who might have something come up after the primaries that will cause defeat in the GE. The SD’s and the candidates believe there will be a clear nominee and the party will unify. We should have faith in the process until it is proven to not work! It is a long time between now and August.
Posted by: DCVoter | March 4, 2008, 6:32 pm 6:32 pm
If I ever met Hillary Clinton in person I would refuse to shake her hand. Shame on you for dragging the Democratic Party through the mud and giving the Republicans a chance in the next election. And shame on anyone voting for Hillary and allowing this debacle to continue on.
Posted by: Adam | March 4, 2008, 6:34 pm 6:34 pm
Liam – the rules allow MI and FL a course of action to take to get delegates seated. The candidates can also request under the rules, that delegates be seated. No one is trying to change the rules on that.
The SD vote is also based on rules. Obama has been an advocate of changing those rules as you are suggesting also. Dean has already spoken on that matter. The rules for SD’s will not be changed.
Posted by: DCVoter | March 4, 2008, 6:36 pm 6:36 pm
Hillary throwing the kitchen sink, the toilet and dustbin on Obama last week no doubt had a negative effect on him, and it will show today I guess. But she can’t continue in that fashion, nor can’t she suddenly be the kind and gentle fellow Democrat again; there are no convincing roles for her left to play in this race if she doesn’t choose the whining track.
I think in the weeks ahead all her negativity and straight lies will hit her back, straight in her face, and she’ll start losing more parts of her support such as blue collar workers who don’t like dirty political games.
Posted by: Greg | March 4, 2008, 6:39 pm 6:39 pm
Thanks John… I was hoping I wasn’t the only one that saw what was happening here.
Posted by: Adam | March 4, 2008, 6:39 pm 6:39 pm
I for the live of me can’t even begin to understand why noone has stood up to Hillary yet? Bill Richardson made a statement yesterday, Nancy Pelosi has made a statement that we should not go against the will of the voters. Mathematically she can not win; when will someone finally take her behind the barn and shoot her?
Posted by: Adam | March 4, 2008, 6:42 pm 6:42 pm
Rick: I have a question about media coverage. Do the people in the media, like you and the on air people have ALL of the exit poll results right now? Or only some of those results? Are you kept away from them until the polls close so there will be no accidental slips?
Posted by: Andrew | March 4, 2008, 6:52 pm 6:52 pm
Here’s a thought that’s been burning me up lately; I saw today where Barack said that he was surprised that the media has bought into Hillary’s assertion that the press at large is playing favorites with him. I think there is a little credence to her claims that she gets tough questions, and all that. And there is credence as well to the fact that a lot of people – myself included – are a bit smitten with the phenomenon that his campaign is inspiring. But no one at all is suggesting that she is getting pretty favorable treatment herself. Most other candidates who lose 11 contests in a row would be moved to page three at best. I know she continues to raise money and her campaign machine is one of the best – but I think that fact that she is getting favorable press and is considered still in the race is impressive and constitutes special treatment. Don’t get me wrong, I think that unfortunately she is still in the race. I am just saying that the press has as just a skewed perspective on her as they do on Obama that sometimes plays in her favors and sometimes favors him. Anyone have any thoughts about that?
Posted by: Curt | March 4, 2008, 6:56 pm 6:56 pm
rick-what say you about hillary’s use of dirty politics. do you think it will help mccain, or if its obama, he can overcome the residue hillary left behind? thanks abc
Posted by: lori | March 4, 2008, 6:58 pm 6:58 pm
Remember, Clinton and Obama are running for the right to represent the Democratic party in the general election. In MOST states, Clinton has won the most votes from members of the party. Obama has managed to win many of his states by garnering the most crossover votes. These are votes by people who have decided that they are not Democrats. Why should they dictate who represents my party? Should superdelegates, who are at the convention to represent the will of the party, be bound to follow the votes of non-democrats or should they follow the votes of members of the party that is selecting a candidate. If so, most will vote for Hillary. She has, by a wide margin, won the majority vote of the members of the party she is seeking to represent.
Posted by: William | March 4, 2008, 6:58 pm 6:58 pm
curt- i totally agree- if it was anyone else– they would have been booted out ”dont let the door hit ya” by now
just look at what happened with edwards
that was a good point you made
Posted by: lori | March 4, 2008, 7:05 pm 7:05 pm
Did you see Bill on Sunday when he spoke to an African American congregation and said: “I’ve been waiting all my life for an African American president, and I’ve also been waiting all my life for a women president…so why did God have to go and give them both to me in the same campaign year…Slick Will’s still got it. I mean with him it is an ART! He still sets the bench mark for Schmooooz! How patronizing?
Posted by: michael basham | March 4, 2008, 7:05 pm 7:05 pm
Hang in there Hillary! The White House is yours! We believe in you!!!!!
Posted by: Tyler | March 4, 2008, 7:06 pm 7:06 pm
I dont think swiftboating is happening between Dem candidates. I do think the RNC is spinning it like that through the media to keep Dem voters fighting.
Posted by: DCVoter | March 4, 2008, 7:10 pm 7:10 pm
You guys Rock! Keep on raisng cane in here. I’m gonna go “chill” the Moet Chandon. Can’t wait for nightline…this is like Christmas Eve.
Posted by: michael basham | March 4, 2008, 7:12 pm 7:12 pm
hey dcv you are probably right. sometimes we get so into it we cant see the forest for the trees.
i wish rick would give us a comment on it
Posted by: lori | March 4, 2008, 7:16 pm 7:16 pm
TWELVE (12) executive WINS for Obama…
Nuff said.
Posted by: Twelve | March 4, 2008, 7:16 pm 7:16 pm
As a Wisconsin voter from 2 weeks ago, I have discovered a new McCain/Clinton strategy. I talked with several republicans at work and in my neiborhood and found out that because McCain has it all wrapped up they all went and voted for Hillary because they feel that McCain can beat her easier than Obama. If it is widespread in my small community, how much is going on nationwide?
Posted by: Randy | March 4, 2008, 7:25 pm 7:25 pm
13- you folks are forgetting about the Democrats abroad
Posted by: Liam Brent Kelly | March 4, 2008, 7:25 pm 7:25 pm
mcpain will have obama like a clown in the general election obama stands no chance that y the republicans r voting for him just wait n see u fools
Posted by: adrian | March 4, 2008, 7:29 pm 7:29 pm
Randy:
Good conspiracy theory except that all of the exit polls have Hillary winning the vote of Democrats with Obama winning among self identified non-Democrats. If there really is a pattern it is that those who do not belong to my party are hijacking our nomination process. Facts are unfortunately inconvenient to you conspiracist and other cultists but they do exist and occassion even get noticed.
Posted by: william | March 4, 2008, 7:29 pm 7:29 pm
Liam,
You represent all that is bad about America. Another example of the sexist crap women put up with in politics, in the office, well, everywhere. Remember you need the b’s votes to win in November. With those remarks, many will jump to McCain.
Posted by: An opinion | March 4, 2008, 7:31 pm 7:31 pm
The one thing that keeps coming to mind when I see these two people is…”Who do you REALLY believe wants to serve this country and who do you believe wants the position just to have the position/trappings of power?” Yes, it is not as completely black and white as all that but step back from it a minute…close your eyes and think back to all you have heard, all you have read and, regardless of your personal preferences see if a pattern emerges here
Posted by: Michael | March 4, 2008, 7:34 pm 7:34 pm
Vermont was always projected as an Obama win because it is an Indie state. No big surprise. I think the key things to watch for are the trends in the other states. With the polls (including exit polls) being so inaccurate this election due to the number of new voters and participating indies, I look forward to reading the real numbers when all the votes are counted. I dont put much stock in media pundits online or on TV. lol
Posted by: DCVoter | March 4, 2008, 7:36 pm 7:36 pm
dear an opinion// i most certainly would not jump to mccain just because of ignorant comments. you are the kind that votes for hillary because she is a woman instead of looking at the big picture. i would love to have a woman president, but i am not going to just vote for her for that, and from what i have seen she isnt my first choice. use some brains, and dont get yourself caught up in water cooler garbage.
Posted by: lori | March 4, 2008, 7:38 pm 7:38 pm
I saw a couple of posts regarding the supposed “secret meeting” with Canadian govt re NAFTA. My research shows that even the Canadian government backed Obama on this one — no secret deal at all. In fact, Canadian govt admits that Obama’s representative only gave Obama’s position (consistent with his position in OH) and nothing else. You might start asking what was the source of the rumor to the contrary & its timing so that it could not be sufficiently refuted prior to election so that uninformed folks are still spreading the lie (see Belinda Stronach/Bill Clinton).
Posted by: Pegster | March 4, 2008, 7:40 pm 7:40 pm
dont leave, randy
Posted by: lori | March 4, 2008, 7:42 pm 7:42 pm
HIllary is so gonna win this. Shes gonna win like she never won before go HILLary
Posted by: HILL 08 :-) | March 4, 2008, 7:47 pm 7:47 pm
Right now the chance of Hillary catching up to Obama in pledged delegates is bleak. I see Obama having an above average chance at winning Vermont, Mississippi, North Carolina and Oregon. He probably will win the caucus in Wyoming.
If she wins by 10 points in TX, OH and RI tonight, she still has to win the rest of the 8 contests by 60-40 plus margins just to come close to catching up to Obama. It is not impossible for her to win. She can still clinch the nomination if she pulls out some Obama-sized victories tonight and in the remaining states.
So I understand Obama’s argument on delegates. For them its the Math stupid.
I don’t understand the Clintonite argument on delegates yet. Does anyone know the Clinton delegate exit strategy?
Posted by: The IN-famous El Guapo | March 4, 2008, 7:47 pm 7:47 pm
I had planned on voting for Clinton all along because I want to see the day a woman becomes president but after all her attack ads and pushing GOP-style dirty tricks I will never ever vote for her again. Her answer about Obama not being a Muslim “as far as I know” and all the horrible unfair attacks is making it more likely McCain will win election. She is acting like if SHE can’t win then she will make sure Obama can’t win. Because of all her dirty attack ads I voted for Obama todeay. If she wins I WILL NOT vote for her. Either I will vote for McCain or not vote at all. We need a new way forward in Washington and not the old Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton as we have seen for so long. I am sick of it. She is acting like a spoiled child. It breaks my heart because I thought after all she has been through with the GOP attacks against her in the 1990s she would rise above the politics of old. Instead she is taking pages from the Karl Rove playbook and attacking, attacking, attacking. Enough!!!
Posted by: former Clinton backer | March 4, 2008, 7:55 pm 7:55 pm
BREAKING NEWS: Ohio official asks judge to hold open polls in Sandusky County until 9 p.m. EST
Posted by: lori | March 4, 2008, 7:56 pm 7:56 pm
i am jamaican and is very disappointed in the americans for letting this obama to have this fuel of non-sensical fame that he is enjoying. dems u dont see y he is ahead is because the republicans r voting for him because they want a meal ticket in the general elections that is a another 4yrs in the white house for the republics. wake up u know that obama cant win, hilary stands a better chance against mcpain. remember the properuos years of bill clinton where america had credibility in the world.
Posted by: adrian | March 4, 2008, 7:56 pm 7:56 pm
It seems maybe Hillary will make a comeback. Unbeliavable, I mean Obama may not be able to close the deal.
McCain wins nomination as it should be
Posted by: Christina | March 4, 2008, 7:57 pm 7:57 pm
First let’s point out that nearly half the states Obama has won haven’t voted Democratic in the general election in the past 20 years (I got tired of looking at 1992, but can’t imagine during Reagan years they defected). Hillary has won more tried & true blue states.
Next does anyone care about Obama’s questionable associations? Syrian born Antoin Rezko was under investigation during the land deal, and was in 2003 on his campaign finance committee and long supporter before. Rezko has ties to Iraqui billionaire Nadhmi Auchi, and was in fact remanded to jail as flight risk because of 3.5 million wire transfer to Rezko from Auchi. Auchi has faced charges in France, and was an accomplice to Saddham Huessin in the 1950’s in a coup attempt. Then you dig more and find Mr. Obama served on The Woods Fund from 1999 to 2002 along side Rashid Khalidi, with ties to the PLO, and the fund granted thousands to the Arab American Action Network on two occassions. Khalidi also an Obama fundraiser. Another fundraiser William Ayers, attempted to bomb the US capitol as part of the Weathermen terrorist group. Connect the dots…what’s the picture look like to you? Farrakhan endorsed him, and his pastor Mr. Wright (given credit for title of Obama’s book – The Audacity of Hope, an obvious center of influence for Obama) traveled with Farrakhan to Libya to meet with M. Gadafi.
Kenneth Star (a vehement Clinton-hater) had abundant resources and time and couldn’t make a case in the Whitewater situation. Because there wasn’t one to be made.
Posted by: Michelle in NJ | March 4, 2008, 8:02 pm 8:02 pm
Based on the early returns from Vermont, Obama isn’t getting nearly the safety delegate margin he needed. He’s looking at a gain of 3 right now, and that’s not enough to offset a lot. He really needs Montpelier to be massive – it hasn’t started to come in yet.
Of course, the more important thing is tomorrow with Feb $$ ##s and the superdelegate superbonanza. [This last paragraph blatantly taken from Mike Crowley].
Posted by: James | March 4, 2008, 8:06 pm 8:06 pm
An Ohio judge has ruled that some polls will stay open until 9 pm.
It will be a long night
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 8:07 pm 8:07 pm
Christina, what kind of Clinton comeback are you talking about? That she might win by single digits in states where she was up more than 20 two weeks ago, her “firewall” states. Please don’t fool yourself, start counting the delegates again and accept that Hillary can no longer win the nomination.
Her crucial state, in her own words, OHIO is still too close to call. That tells it all, I’m afraid. I’m sure she’ll win in OHIO, getting about 53% of the votes. No way that will help to get the nomination. It is over for Hillary.
Posted by: Maria | March 4, 2008, 8:07 pm 8:07 pm
OH demos from exit poll look pretty deadlocked (big surprise). Clinton will run strong in NE, but Obama leads rest of state. If the Cuyahoga results lag, it will be a long time before a call is made. Plenty of time to rest until the TX results come in, grab a snack and a soda and settle in, it’s gonna be a late night, what with the caucuses and all (expect fireworks there as well).
Posted by: Kevin | March 4, 2008, 8:08 pm 8:08 pm
Hopefully, For America Obama will lose!
I think Obama belongs in Hollywood.
Posted by: seah | March 4, 2008, 8:09 pm 8:09 pm
Only one candidate will be the best President. That candidate is Senator Hillary Clinton. Don’t our children deserve the best?
Posted by: chris | March 4, 2008, 8:13 pm 8:13 pm
OMG, this is amazing! Politics now rivals football, baseball and basketball for America’s favorite spectator sport!
Now if can just keep the fans from mindlessly brawling out at mid-court/field….
Posted by: adam | March 4, 2008, 8:16 pm 8:16 pm
OH has pulled all numbers from their website until 9PM due to extended voting hours in Sandusky County. So, it’ll be hot n heavy in 45 min.s
Posted by: Kevin | March 4, 2008, 8:18 pm 8:18 pm
Can we stop by the up by 20% or more two weeks ago garbage.
That is totally false!!!
One poll showed Clinton up by 21% just as Edwards left the race.
All the others average about 10% up in Ohio and 5% up in texas.
The best poll for Clinton showed a 16% lead in texas just as dwards left the race, again ONE poll. Polls have had her up about 5% on average until last week.
This Obama narrative is garbage and needs to be ripped to shred by the press!
He outspent her 3:1 and ended up in the same place, maybe up a couple of points, no more.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 8:18 pm 8:18 pm
Live results has Hillary leading Ohio by over 60%.
Not sure how accurate that is, but a walkover there could keep this race going right through the summer.
Posted by: Aka | March 4, 2008, 8:20 pm 8:20 pm
I believe americans are generally disatisfied with democrats as well as republicans. Its a ripe time for a 3rd party to emerge!
Posted by: carl beam | March 4, 2008, 8:21 pm 8:21 pm
To Clinton supporters:
If your candidate wins tonight in OH and TX, but not RI, you can thank Rush Limbaugh for your victory.
How does that make you feel? The most disliked right wing pundit wants your candidate to win.
Posted by: Mark-in-CT | March 4, 2008, 8:22 pm 8:22 pm
So Obama got a judge to grant permission to keep some polling places open until 9pm in Ohio! Can’t he win ANY eletion fair!! I don’t trust him or his “camp”!!!!
Posted by: Nevada 4 Hillary | March 4, 2008, 8:22 pm 8:22 pm
Word out of TX is record turnout and high “new” voter turnout.
Posted by: Kevin | March 4, 2008, 8:24 pm 8:24 pm
Two weeks ago ABC news from Feb 16-20 had Clinton up by 1 in Texas and 7 in Ohio.
Obama has NOT come from more than 20% behind two weeks ago, in fact at the end of the day he may have lost ground from two weeks ago, even with all that money.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 8:24 pm 8:24 pm
Well democrats have consistently voted for Clinton over Obama. Obama only leads because of republican support?, if it can be called that.
How does that make you feel?
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 8:26 pm 8:26 pm
Rick,
If Ohio has asked no one to report results until after 9pm, why is ABC and MSNBC reporting a blowout for Clinton?
Jerome
Posted by: Jerome | March 4, 2008, 8:27 pm 8:27 pm
Hey Rick,
Why is it that abcnews.com is showing hundreds of thousands of votes for Texas, and yet it shows no precincts reporting?
Posted by: Brian | March 4, 2008, 8:28 pm 8:28 pm
Can someone, anyone, please explain to me what Hillary is doing? Yes, she may win Ohio and even Rhode Island tonight, but she cannot, let me repeat CANNOT, catch Obama in elected delegates unless she beats him by 30 points or so in the remaining states. That is not going to happen.
Watching her is like (and stay with me here) like watching your favorite NFL team go out and win its final 4 games after starting with only 2 or three wins. Did it change anything? No. All it did was mean that your team has a worse draft position.
This is more serious that that obviously. All Senator Clinton is doing at this time is ripping her party apart. She cannot win. It is time for her to step aside, regardless of the results, for the good of the party and to save the remaining shreds of her legacy.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 8:32 pm 8:32 pm
Well s.b.,
Where do you get your math from? Maybe you get “fuzzy math” from W.
WA, CT, WI, and VT are as blue as states come, and Obama won them all!
Posted by: Mark-in-CT | March 4, 2008, 8:33 pm 8:33 pm
Finally, during an interview this evening, Howard Dean the DNC Chairman stressed the need to let the primary process go forward – there are 16 contests yet to come. Do not disenfranchise these voters. The Obama campaign’s efforts to sideline Clinton’s campaign and foreclose the planned primaries yet to come is insulting to voters in Pennsylvania, North Carolina et. al. WHAT IS THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN AFRAID OF?
Posted by: twinmom48 | March 4, 2008, 8:34 pm 8:34 pm
From CNN:
Texas 1% reporting
Obama 58% 452489 votes
Clinton 41% 325364 votes
Posted by: Maria | March 4, 2008, 8:34 pm 8:34 pm
Don’t trust him either…he won at least one of his elections by unscrupulously challenging signatures on petitions for competing candidates (late at night) until he was unopposed. Check it, out true. one other candidate did finally get on the ballot after 3/4 of race time over. Nice, eh? That’s Chicago politics. Read the Chicago paper sites.
How about the non-special-interest candidate slant? Research Exelor. How two of their execs are top fundraisers, how his chief campaign strategist is also consultant to company. How they gave him $157,000 and then he changed legislation in their favor to not report leaks in nuclear plants. Then said in Iowa legislation passed, when oops…still hasn’t. Guess he forgot. More “bone-headedness”. Also took $ from Citi and Goldman Sachs…thousands and thousands. He circumvents the “lobbyist” issue, but taking $$$ not from the “registered” lobbyist but from their spouse, or other associate, or directly from their hiring firm. He’s such a liar.
Rezko might bite him hard, you see it goes beyond the land deal…Obama wrote letters for him (on a website you can READ them), which helped him get something like $43 million in contracts…all while he was an Obama donator/fundraiser.
Posted by: Michelle in NJ | March 4, 2008, 8:37 pm 8:37 pm
It is not about if Obama is afraid, it is about what is best for the Democratic Party. Who gains from the Clinton Campaign throwing the kitchen sink. John McCain, that’s who. She cannot win without overturning the will of the people. But, that does not seem to be a concern for her, or her camp.
Given the remaining map, I think Howard Dean is fairly certain that Senator Obama will have the edge in elected delegates, making it easier for the Supers to come to his side. it is not an endorsement of the Clintons.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 8:38 pm 8:38 pm
They’re afraid of Pennsylvania…one of those tried and true Democratic states with a primary, and not one of those caucuses. Govenor supporting Hillary I believe and a hefty delgate count.
Posted by: Michelle in NJ | March 4, 2008, 8:39 pm 8:39 pm
But Pennsylvania is not going to matter if she does not win by wide margins in Ohio and Texas tonight. If the early votes are an indication in Texas, that is not going to happen.
Senator Clinton will likely lose big in Wyoming and Mississippi. The makes Pennsylvania becomes moot in many ways. then where is the goal post? If her goal is party unity, she has an interesting way of showing it. My hope is the Dean. Richardson, and Edward step in and talk with her.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 8:46 pm 8:46 pm
TEXAS
OBAMA 484,538 56%
CLINTON 367,632 43%
just got this in
Posted by: Snkls | March 4, 2008, 8:48 pm 8:48 pm
As an independent voter, I find it interesting that the only time Clinton questions the ‘rules’ is when she’s losing. Florida, Michigan and now Texas. What kind of leader isn’t on top of the election rules in Texas until two weeks before? If this is her version of leadership, no thanks, I’ve already had 7 years of this type.
Posted by: Independent In Colorado | March 4, 2008, 8:49 pm 8:49 pm
Nice football comparison Jason.
Even though I want BO to win, I think Hillary has the right to keep running.
Then again, it would be nice if she quit though. Then I wouldn’t have to listen to that moron Lou Dobbs supporting her openly, and then complaining about how the media is biased toward Obama.
Posted by: Mark-in-CT | March 4, 2008, 8:49 pm 8:49 pm
only Senator Hillary Clinton is capable of beating both john mccain and the 2008 version of the swift boat vets, whom mccain will have NO control over and who have unlimited funds with which to destroy the campaign of the Democratic candidate. obama is especially vulnerable to such attacks. Senator Clinton is not. For the best interests of our children, our troops and America, our only choice is Senator Hillary Clinton.
Posted by: chris | March 4, 2008, 8:50 pm 8:50 pm
Vote the issues…not gender…not color! The candidates integrity and where they stand on the issues are what really matter.
Posted by: Sue | March 4, 2008, 8:50 pm 8:50 pm
Those Texas numbers are from early voters, and a good sign for Obama. His early voting efforts worked well.
The key is not only going to be the primary results, which could favor Obama, but also the Caucuses which are reportedly well attended.
Of course no matter if Obama wins, Team Clinton will cry sour grapes and blame someone.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 8:51 pm 8:51 pm
If Clinton wins Ohio it will be because of all the over 50 voters who have systematically voted in all the idiots who over the last 20 years run the state of Ohio into the trash can.
3/4 of my college peers have left the state to find jobs in other states. People who voted for Hillary have their pensions and benefits and think that we can go back in time.
I will never, ever vote to put another Clinton in the White House.
Posted by: ohiogal | March 4, 2008, 8:54 pm 8:54 pm
Rick, I have a question:
If Camp Clinton attempts to “spin” a potential severe loss in TX as having to do with that state’s funky caucus system — a system Camp Clinton well knew was funky months if not years ago — who exactly is expected to buy into such “spin”? I mean, to me and, I believe, to most folks, “spin” is but a euphemism for self-interested, biased exaggeration at best, and total B.S. at worst.
So if something is obviously B.S. to most folks with common sense, for whose benefit is such absurd “spin” presented, if no one takes it seriously? Surely the superdelegates are too smart and presumably unmoved by such self-serving claptrap….
Posted by: adam | March 4, 2008, 8:56 pm 8:56 pm
I live in fairly conservative state, North Dakota. Many of the progressives in this state (Dems and Reps) supported Obama. However, you take him off the ballot and replace him with Senator Clinton, they change immediately. Nothing riles the GOP base like a Clinton. She is too divisive a figure. While I agree it is unfair and I have never understood the hatred, but that is the fact. I
It is harder to run against hope than it is agaisnt a Clinton.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 8:56 pm 8:56 pm
I wonder if politicians have a masters in lying or is it story telling lol
Posted by: carl beam | March 4, 2008, 8:57 pm 8:57 pm
as much as i would hate having mccain as president, I have little to no confidence that senator obama would survive any sort of version of the swift boat vets in the fall if he were the nominee
Posted by: chris | March 4, 2008, 8:58 pm 8:58 pm
Ohiogal:
With you being in one of the voting states, I have to ask: did the appeal to fear that the Clintons used work with the people you talk with or did it create the opposite effect?
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 8:59 pm 8:59 pm
I have to disagree, Chris, that Clinton has a better chance against the Swiftboat types — and as a Veteran for Kerry, I continue to be sorry about that campaign’s late and tepid response against those lying idiots. But my voice as a Vietnam Veteran here in Placer County, California was not enough to change that.
Anyway, there’s plenty for those idiots to attack about Hillary and Bill. Either candidate will need a good Veterans outfit, and at this point they are just as likely to attack McCain (as some of their ilk did early in the primaries)as they are Obama.
The shrill voices of the Clintonites continues to grate on this Veteran for Obama, and I’ll have to think about any involvement in the Clinton campaign should she win the nomination. Though I won’t vote for McCain like some Clinton supporters have threatened. I’m not that stupid!
Posted by: Jackt51 | March 4, 2008, 9:02 pm 9:02 pm
Hummmmmmm with taxes already out of site will Hillary and Barrack l please tell us where the money is going to come from for all these grand ideas :)
Posted by: carl beam | March 4, 2008, 9:05 pm 9:05 pm
Interesting; according to the exit polls at CNN for Texas, Ohio and Rhode Island, Obama won a majority of the male vote in each of these states.
So they won’t be BIG wins for Hillary, and it looks now if she may lose Texas.
So that’ll be the end then. For Clinton, that is. Let’s start the real campaign!
Posted by: Maria | March 4, 2008, 9:08 pm 9:08 pm
If the tables were reversed, the Clinton campaign would be saying “Barack, be a gracious loser, and bow out”. But with a potential split in Ohio and Texas, there is still no way for Hillary to catch Obama. I think that for hillary to try to play the “Oh poor me” theme is getting tiresome. Ok we get it, you were first lady!, But grow up, stop trying to vicariously take credit for things your husband did, as if they are yours. The most experienced person for president, that of James Buchanan was a utter failure. Take that into context with another Illinois legislator, who had little experience, and I think history judged him quite well. I need not name this figure. Now you have Rush Limbaugh telling people to vote for Hillary…hmmm I wonder why? Could it be that Republican conservatives are licking their chops at a chance to go after Clinton if she becomes the nominee. Nixon met with leaders of China. A whole host of presidents met with Soviet Premiers. Hmm..why is saying you will meet with a foreign leader from Iran, Cuba, N. Korea such controversy. I would say that engaging these nations is one way to open them up and produce true change. Go OBAMA!
Posted by: Michael | March 4, 2008, 9:09 pm 9:09 pm
IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THE “OBAMAMITES” ARE A LITTLE CONCERNED THIS EVENING.
LOL. IT APPEARS THE MOST QUALIFIED CANDIDATE IS GIVING HIS A** A RUN FOR HIS MONEY! OBAMA IS NOT READY TO BE PRESIDENT PEOPLE!
HATS OFF TO YOU HILLARY!
GO HILLARY!!! HILLARY 08!!!
Posted by: Justin | March 4, 2008, 9:11 pm 9:11 pm
From rolling back the Bush tax cuts for the super rich, for one, Carl.
And ending the gush of money to the Iraq War, Haliburton et al, redirecting some of the $$ to Afghanistan and the real hunt for bin laden. Plenty left for needed health care and other services that have been ignored or trampled by Bush and the repubs.
Posted by: Jackt51 | March 4, 2008, 9:11 pm 9:11 pm
The tension mounts the crouds yell Opps this is not a ball game! We love Hillary and Barrack sweet
Pass the pop corn and coke:)
Posted by: carl beam | March 4, 2008, 9:11 pm 9:11 pm
The only thing I am worried about is the amount of damage that Hillary will do when she has no way of winning the nomination.
I got to give Huckabee this; he did not attack McCain when he knew the score.
Chris Matthew’s just made an interesting point that this appears to be less about the Democratic Party and more about teh Clintons refusing to leave.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 9:15 pm 9:15 pm
Thanks Justin
Anyone for abolishing the IRs and putting the government on a budget like the rest of us poor americans?
PS whisper it in Hillarys ear:)
Hmm m lets give em 10% no more!
Posted by: carl beam | March 4, 2008, 9:17 pm 9:17 pm
Carl,
Problem with disbanding the IRS is that we would put many out of a job. The solution is rolling back tax cuts, closing loopholes, and actually making those who make the money pay their fair share.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 9:20 pm 9:20 pm
Clinton wins RI, but the margin is much thinner than predicted. She’ll be lucky to get the +3 Obama got for VT. Still, the win is a win. If OH holds, she makes her case to go on, but after Huck drops she is the only spoiler out there. Not good press.
Posted by: Kevin | March 4, 2008, 9:26 pm 9:26 pm
With Mike Huckabee finally throwing in the “miracle” towel, we can only hope that, if the result hold in Texas, Hillabee Huckton will follow suit!
Posted by: Jackt51 | March 4, 2008, 9:26 pm 9:26 pm
dang Justin does that mean less government and less beaurcrat controls over os poor peons ouch! iam just a average guy who believes in paying as i go:) Id rather pay the feds 10% and forget about them Ne one with me ?? smile:)
Posted by: carl beam | March 4, 2008, 9:27 pm 9:27 pm
Obama gets a court order to reopen polls in Cleveland (largest black population areas Only) not all of Cleveland. Due to weather.
All of Northern Ohio is all ice, what about the rest?
Only areas he can get the most votes.
He is Pathetic.
Posted by: seah | March 4, 2008, 9:29 pm 9:29 pm
Rick – Even with those demo splits and percentages, it is a net canceling effect, and the delegate distro is still the big story.
Posted by: Kevin | March 4, 2008, 9:30 pm 9:30 pm
Kevin…Hillary a ‘spoiler’…really??? I would say that is a bit presumptious.
Posted by: Louise | March 4, 2008, 9:33 pm 9:33 pm
Democrats must look at the big picture. We must win in November. The Supreme Court, Health care for our children National Security are at stake. Another four years of the Limbaugh/Rove rantings and we will be in a bigger mess. Obama/Clinton must work for the good of the country. Together they must find a way to win in November. Keep your eye on the prize!
Posted by: Jerilyn D. Bifulco | March 4, 2008, 9:34 pm 9:34 pm
seah, does Hillary not have her own lawyers? Puhleez
Posted by: Jackt51 | March 4, 2008, 9:35 pm 9:35 pm
I had to work late tonight so am trying to catch up on the latest news. So what is Michelle Obama mad about today?
Posted by: jackie | March 4, 2008, 9:36 pm 9:36 pm
It’s becoming more and more clear that the main divide between Obama and Clinton is along the line of sex…
Obama won the majority of male votes in each and every state tonight, according to the polls. Clinton whon the majority of the female vote in OH, TX, RI, but not in Vermont.
The majority of Democrat voters are female, so that keeps Clinton going (and winning but not big tonight).
I’m a woman 100% and I’m 200% for Obama. :)
Posted by: Maria | March 4, 2008, 9:37 pm 9:37 pm
Looks like O Bamas team is better organized than Hillarys for the caucus after the votes are in and he will get a lot of those votes Go O bama!! Hip Hip Hoo Rah!!
Carl Sings Iam a long tall Texan
Posted by: carl beam | March 4, 2008, 9:40 pm 9:40 pm
Right you are, Jerilyn. Well said.
Posted by: adam | March 4, 2008, 9:47 pm 9:47 pm
The question is going to be after what looks to be a draw tonight, is Hillary looking at what is best for the party or what is best for her? If she continues on, we will know her answer.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 9:49 pm 9:49 pm
Yes!!! Yes!!! People are turning out to vote for the ugly, brainy girl instead of the popular guy with the groovy smile. I never thought I would see this turn-around. It gives me hope for American politics.
Posted by: Eric Swanson | March 4, 2008, 9:50 pm 9:50 pm
Its a race to the end Yawn!
I read theres a major climate of dislusion with politicians both democrat and Republicans yup The dollars worth less and taxes are higher after each administartion. Promise me the moon and buy my supper lol
Posted by: carl beam | March 4, 2008, 9:52 pm 9:52 pm
If you are listening to McCain, it becomes clear why the Democrats need to close this contest now. He can now focus all of his attention on the Democrats. Obama cannot because he need to continue to ward off false claims and complaints from the Clintons. If the Democrats are serious about winning this fall, they best get their house in order and soon because McCain is going to take pot shots for the next 6 months.
If you think you can beat him after a fractured convention and a 7 month head start you are foolin yourselves.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 10:00 pm 10:00 pm
Too bad for John McCain, but we will CONTINUE VIGOROUSLY to make the election about his and his party’s profoundly failed judgment which helped lead us into the Iraq debacle in the first place.
He is incredibly vulnerable on this point, and will not be permitted simply to gloss it over.
He was *dead wrong,* and he will answer for it. So much for his *alleged* “national security experience.” HA!
Posted by: Mark | March 4, 2008, 10:03 pm 10:03 pm
Is any one else noticing that the exit polls are way off? I know they can be off by a bit and off at first, but with over 20% reporting in RI and Ohio, they are way off, like by 15%. And at over 60% reporting in Vermont they are off by 5%.
Is there some demographic these polls are missing? ie people who don’t support Obama, but are afraid to say so because of the hype. Are voters being intimidated by Obama supporters enough to make them refuse to take exit polls if they dont support him?
Just a thought.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 10:05 pm 10:05 pm
Clinton will WIN. Wanting change is good. Have you ever changed anything?(Obama). Clinton is Focused and Experience. She speaks clearly without hesitation.
Posted by: jonathan | March 4, 2008, 10:05 pm 10:05 pm
How will Hillary win when she cannot get the delegates. Unless she asks the Supers to usurp the will of the voters, she is jousting with windmills.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 10:09 pm 10:09 pm
hillary is a good poker player or a hummmmmm Shes our 4 the big C !!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: carl beam | March 4, 2008, 10:14 pm 10:14 pm
Neither obama nor Clinton can get teh amount of elected delegates needed. This arguement is a red herring. obama would have to win over 66% of all the rest of the delegates to win and that isnt going to happen.
The same arguement can be used either way.
Florida and Michigan will decide this, or Puerto Rico.
But there is definately enough total delegates left for Clinton to continue and to win.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 10:14 pm 10:14 pm
Mark how many electoral college votes do those states come with and how many of them does it take to make one California?
Just asking?
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 10:16 pm 10:16 pm
Obama is a joke and should drop out after his poor performance tonight.
Posted by: jeff | March 4, 2008, 10:29 pm 10:29 pm
Whatever happens tonight, Clinton needs to bow out gracefully. I would be happy to vote for her in 2016, but she needs to stop dividing the Democratic Party. At this point she seems to be making a case for McCain if she loses the nomination to Obama. She argues she can defeat McCain but Obama cannot. She is implicitly saying McCain would make a better president than Obama. Of course this seems to be her strategy this week, based on scaring people into voting for her. The direction of Clinton’s campaign, as of late, has tactics similar to those of the Republican Party. If Clinton’s supporters like that, which presumably they do or they would not continue to support her, they are much more likely to endorse McCain over Obama if Clinton loses the nomination.
Another IMPORTANT consideration: Obama’s supporters will not roll over and die. As I’ve told a number of people, Obama has not built a campaign as much as a social movement. Social movements are much stronger and have a far greater life expectancy than a campaign. The anti-war movement that arose during the Vietnam War is a prime example. The social movement and unrest did not stop until the war did. Likewise, the social movement spurred by Obama will continue even if Obama does not get the nomination.
Obama will never be able to endorse Clinton if she defeats him. To leave with any integrity or respect from his supporters, obviously something needed for any future run at the White House, Obama cannot fade into the background as a “sell-out.” By endorsing Clinton he endorses the very thing he and his supporters oppose the most, the status quo of the nation and the politics of yesteryear.
The supporters of the social movement will persevere with or without Obama. He has started something not even he can stop. The movement wants change. Clinton can’t offer it. The only other candidate that can, albeit to a lesser degree, is NADER. Yes, I said it. The disenfranchised supporters of the social movement led by Obama will defect to Nader. He won’t be viable but the message of the social movement will still be sent, loud and clear. Of course this means the next president will be McCain. Don’t blame Obama or his supporters though, blame Hillary Clinton. She and her political machine have seen this coming and choose to look the other way – sacrificing the party for her own selfish desires. The only positive point if this scenario plays out, McCain’s old and can’t last forever.
Posted by: Shawn | March 4, 2008, 10:32 pm 10:32 pm
Clinton supporters:
Please explain to me how she can catch Obama in elected delegates? This is fuzzy math. Her only hope is to usurp the voters through the Superdelgates. That will be a death knell for our party.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 10:32 pm 10:32 pm
Susan, it is not just Hillary and Bill. It is US. We exist.
Posted by: irma | March 4, 2008, 10:34 pm 10:34 pm
Tom Joad — so many election experts, it’s amazing that ABC hasn’t offered you a job yet.
The Ohio race hasn’t been called because too many counties are still out. And the lead has gone from 22% to 14% as the vote comes in. As to Jeff’s comment about poor performance — what delusion do you base that on other than the Clinton latest “moving the goalposts?
Posted by: Jackt51 | March 4, 2008, 10:35 pm 10:35 pm
They have not called Ohio because almost none of the urban populous areas have been counted.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 10:36 pm 10:36 pm
By the way where’s this tight battle for Ohio that Clinton and Obama are locked in? Got to love the MSM no bias.
Um she’s up by 14% and that’s the least she’s been up with 50% reporting.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 10:38 pm 10:38 pm
S.B.
look at the reporting areas on the maps on CNN. Cleveland may not be counted until 4 a.m. That should make it closer
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 10:40 pm 10:40 pm
Hey “Jackt51″, do you think you could drop the emotional paintbrush you are using to attack Hillary Clinton, and instead use logic and facts to prove that your candidate is somehow the better one. It looks like the good folks of Ohio don’t think so. Hmmm, wonder why he can’t close the deal. Wink, wink. The cracks are starting to appear.
Posted by: WestCoastMessenger | March 4, 2008, 10:42 pm 10:42 pm
No Jason, Florida and Michigan will be seated at convention, 100% guarenteed, if I were Obama I’d go with the delegates they hae now rather than a revote. Who would you vote for if one of the candidates was tryign to disenfranchise your state??? hmmm now let me see.
As is he might get most of the uncommitteds and Edwards delegates. If its a revote, Hillary gets to place her delegates in those slots and have more delegates than now.
Florida and Michigan will be seated one way or another. The point is to win the white house. you dont win the white house by discounting two states off the bat.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 10:42 pm 10:42 pm
Maybe I’m just delusional but it looks like Clinton is ahead in Texas.
Posted by: Jeff | March 4, 2008, 10:47 pm 10:47 pm
First of all, I find it hard to believe that none of the polls in urban centres are reporting with 50% in and 3 and a half hours after most polls closed.
Second the RI results are about 15% off the exit poll with almost 90% reporting.
Something is going on with the exit polls being off.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 10:47 pm 10:47 pm
What’s up with Obama getting a judge to keep some of the polls open later in Ohio??????????
Posted by: Nevada 4 Hillary | March 4, 2008, 10:48 pm 10:48 pm
Hey Mr. “Bag the Billster”, you obviously don’t support Obama, so I’d have to say that your particular venom for the Clintons seems to be focused at disrupting the Democratic party’s process for some type of ulterior motive. You aren’t perchance one of Rush’s attack dogs are you? You might want to hold that victory chicken dancing until November, yet.
Posted by: WestCoastMessenger | March 4, 2008, 10:48 pm 10:48 pm
Oh boy, the Texas race is on!
Go Hillary!
Posted by: LeeLee07 | March 4, 2008, 10:48 pm 10:48 pm
Clinton just over took obama in Texas by the way.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 10:49 pm 10:49 pm
What is most amazing to me this primary night is that Obama has outspent Hillary Clinton 3 to 1 in Texas and Ohio.
Posted by: sagesgram | March 4, 2008, 10:50 pm 10:50 pm
… and she is maintaining her advantage in Ohio.
Posted by: LeeLee07 | March 4, 2008, 10:52 pm 10:52 pm
Yes Obama is the new Mitt Romney.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 10:53 pm 10:53 pm
I am Republican and I voted for Hillary, so that we can beat her in the National election.
Texas made the difference
Posted by: Brad | March 4, 2008, 10:54 pm 10:54 pm
Hillary just won Ohio.
Hillary ’08
Posted by: LeeLee07 | March 4, 2008, 10:55 pm 10:55 pm
Hillary – Take the run to the convention! We are behind you all the way.
Hillary ’08
Posted by: LeeLee07 | March 4, 2008, 10:56 pm 10:56 pm
Hillary is now leading in Texas too. You gotta love it. I’ve been watching all the Obama supporters and the right wing Hillary bashers proclaiming the Clinton campaign obituary, and they’ve been doing all kinds of crowing for the last several days. I warned them to keep their eyes on the prize or they may find themselves in the rearview mirror under the focus of the eyes of a tortoise. That’s exactly what’s happening!
Posted by: WestCoastMessenger | March 4, 2008, 10:59 pm 10:59 pm
Rick – At this point, I think OH is the only thing Clinton can hang her hat on. If her vote margin holds, it is a big win, but it’s only one and the delegate split is close. She can’t argue RI and say other small states don’t matter. TX will be the scale tipper, so we’ll see how it goes. However, at this point, the math is still the math, and she doesn’t have enough delegates to prevail. If Richardson and other party leaders tip to Obama after tonight, then Clinton cannot manage enough delegates to win, and things become messy for the convention re: FL and MI, etc.
Posted by: Kevin | March 4, 2008, 10:59 pm 10:59 pm
HILLARY WINS RHODE ISLAND & OHIO! ………WOO WOO!! GO HILLARY! HILLARY 08!!!
Posted by: Justin | March 4, 2008, 11:00 pm 11:00 pm
Reading from another blog, Texas voters saying that they have been waiting in caucas rooms for hours to sign. Obama supporters are coming in with sheets already signed.
Posted by: LeeLee07 | March 4, 2008, 11:01 pm 11:01 pm
kevin….You spoke to soon my man…..
THE COME BACK KID COMES BACK AGAIN! GO HILLARY!!!
Posted by: Justin | March 4, 2008, 11:02 pm 11:02 pm
Hillary should not give up now. Obama is finally getting the scrutiny he should have gotten from the start. All she has to do is wait out the clock. This guy is dirty.
Posted by: LeeLee07 | March 4, 2008, 11:03 pm 11:03 pm
How is ABC going to report caucus numbers?
I haven’t heard anything.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 11:04 pm 11:04 pm
This is just wonderful for us Republicans to see the Dems fight it out!
Posted by: plainsmm | March 4, 2008, 11:05 pm 11:05 pm
Yes!!I will love watching him go down! He’s SO smug and he underestimated ALL OF US and our ability not just to see that he’s a con but to smoke him out of the cozy money HOLE that he crawled out of!
Posted by: Nevada 4 Hillary | March 4, 2008, 11:06 pm 11:06 pm
cnn has just give ohio to hilary teas is next baby u can make it i am praying for u
Posted by: adrian | March 4, 2008, 11:07 pm 11:07 pm
Chris Matthews (MSNBC) looks depressed. This is SWEET!
Go Hillary 08′
Posted by: LeeLee07 | March 4, 2008, 11:08 pm 11:08 pm
Well I’m no math professor, but I don’t see how Hillary can claim a victory tonight…if it plays out the way it looks to, she’ll still be behind in both the popular vote and waaaaayyyy behind in pledged delegates. But like I said, I’m no math professor, those Clinton people must have degrees in fuzzy math..or maybe it’s miracle math. Looks like the Democrats are once again going to do the Republican’s work for them and lose an election they should be able to walk away with.
Posted by: Colorado Independent | March 4, 2008, 11:09 pm 11:09 pm
Matthews and Olbermann: Obama has already won in regulation regrldess of tonight. That is the math.
So now what Hillary supporters?
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 11:14 pm 11:14 pm
I really hope that judge in Ohio is looked at. Tomorrow will come and it BETTER be talked about everywhere because if it was Hillary that had a judge keep the polls open later,you can be damn sure it would be everywhere!! I do find it funny though that he lost the state anyway!
Posted by: Nevada 4 Hillary | March 4, 2008, 11:14 pm 11:14 pm
And to reply to the latest ‘spin’ from Clinton campaign, how do you claim momentum when you’ve managed to lose from all your key demographics and Obama has gained in all of his. He was way behind in the polls for all but Vermont and yet he is managing to hold his own and gain all important delegates. And make no mistake this is about delegates, it always has been, no matter how Clinton has tried to spin it.
Posted by: Colorado Independent | March 4, 2008, 11:16 pm 11:16 pm
How could anyone NOT keep running the race? Clinton was not down and out, she was behind (and still is).
She can still win the popular vote, or can she? Isn’t the popular vote the factor that Obama’s campaign has been stressing as the major motivation for the superdelegates’ votes?
BTW, I’m not a Democrat, just a Conservative observing from the sidelines.
Posted by: Susan Bertalotto | March 4, 2008, 11:18 pm 11:18 pm
As someone mentioned before, he outspent Hillary 3 to 1. As Ohio goes, so goes the Nation!
Posted by: LeeLee07 | March 4, 2008, 11:18 pm 11:18 pm
Lee Lee I agree bad Losers and story tellers Hummm is that how we spell politicians LOl :P
Posted by: carl beam | March 4, 2008, 11:21 pm 11:21 pm
From the Texas Secretary of State:
Hillary Clinton
Delegates 59
Early votes and Percentage:587,413 47.51%
Total vote and Percentage: 809,444 49.44%
Barack Obama
Delegates: 67
Earley votes and percentage: 628,946 50.87%
Total vote and percentage: 796,799 48.66%
This is Hillary’s problem. She has more votes, but 8 less delegates already. How can she get around this without changing the rules.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 11:22 pm 11:22 pm
From what I’ve seen neither one can get enough delegates to win the nomination AND Obama’s halo slipping!He is dirty! The superdelegates will decide and they won’t be able to back him with good reason!
Posted by: Nevada 4 Hillary | March 4, 2008, 11:23 pm 11:23 pm
Not Lee Lee but Colorado I agree with you bad losers and nuts this is american politics
Iam 4 O bama Go boy go
Posted by: carl beam | March 4, 2008, 11:24 pm 11:24 pm
Clinton now has a tough argument to make. She cannot win the delegate race (that’s math, not wishful thinking). She must convince the SDs to break with her, and that’s a hard sell. Those that have left her cannot now “flip” back to her without looking bad. Richardson has said “whoever” was ahead in pledged delegates after tonight. She has certainly won the “core” Democratic voters, but that will not win the General (see 2000, 2004) especially if it seems the Party is saying Independent’s votes do not count from the primaries (but you’re welcome to vote with us in Nov.) Fact is, she is a polarizing figure (Dem v Repub) (Latino v Black). If she can manage to win the nomination, where is the winning coalition for Nov.? She has at least one solid victory tonight, but I think it comes too late in the primary season. The die have already been cast.
Posted by: Kevin | March 4, 2008, 11:29 pm 11:29 pm
Nevada, not to cloud your devotion with facts, but every expert says there is no mathematical way Clinton can catch Obama in pledged delegates. This is a fact, even if she swept TX and every other state coming up. That would mean the super delegates would have to vote against the candidate who has the most pledged delegates and that would split the Democratic party and drive away independents. It’s not going to happen unless Obama does something really dirty between now and the convention (like have sex with an intern or something like that – and hey, I loved Bill when he was in office, but lately, man he needs to step back)
Posted by: Colorado Independent | March 4, 2008, 11:30 pm 11:30 pm
I think that Obama’s free ride with the Media is just about over. Enough stuff is starting to come out about him that is causing people to listen to what he is saying and to begin to compare it against his record. There are a lot of questions that are unanswered…
Yes We Will! Go Hillary ’08
Posted by: LeeLee07 | March 4, 2008, 11:33 pm 11:33 pm
I think the problem for her ,even if she doe some how take the nomination is what happens to to the young voters. I am 30 years old nd been a democrat since before I could vote. However, i will ahve a serious problem voting for Hillary given the fact she may undo what the people in the primary season.
I think realistically, her only core demographic she can rely id the SUpers decide is older women. The younger voters will look elsewhere. It is scary, but Nader could actually be a factor.
Hillary needs to be long sighted. The problem is she will get kicked around in the next two contests and we are back to square one.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 11:34 pm 11:34 pm
This is no setback for Obama. Clinton was ahead in the OHIO polls all the time and she’s winning, but bigger than expected.
On the other side, closing the immense gap with Clinton in Texas in so short a time is by any standard a major achievement.
No dramatic effects on the delegate count, so what would the serious problem for Obama be? He’s ahead and she can’t catch up anymore. Period. That’s pretty all there’s to it.
In fact the Texas tie in an enormous for Clinton, at this stage, as her campaign well knows.
Posted by: Maria | March 4, 2008, 11:35 pm 11:35 pm
The successful presidential candidate in this country becomes so *ONLY* by winning the majority of independent voters — nothing less will do it. You can’t win with only your base, which is what Clinton does.
Hillary Clinton CANNOT and WILL NOT win those independent voters away from John McCain. Obama can, and will.
How then, diehard Clintoneers, would you expect her to win should Hillary survive the primaries (which doesn’t appear likely)?
Posted by: Mark | March 4, 2008, 11:35 pm 11:35 pm
Clinton is on the verge of passing Obama in the overall popular vote today, not even counting Florida and Michigan. Can you imagine if those states revote? Game on, baby!
Posted by: WestCoastMessenger | March 4, 2008, 11:38 pm 11:38 pm
Hillary Vs McCain 2008!!!!!
Posted by: Hillary Supporters | March 4, 2008, 11:39 pm 11:39 pm
Well we know the final count from the primary part of the prima-caucus:
According the Texas Secretary of State website:
Total of 126 delegates:
Clinton 62
Obama 64
Even is she wins the popular vote, she loses the delegate count. Let the spinning begin! :)
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 11:41 pm 11:41 pm
Mark, you cant win the white house without winning one major state other than illinois, especially when you’ve thrown more money at them than any candidate in history.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 11:42 pm 11:42 pm
Nevada, you probably better hope Camp Clinton doesn’t go there, because the skeletons in her closet are not even in the closet anymore and you guys are delusional if you don’t think the Republicans won’t bring each and every one up again. Don’t fling the mud if you’re standing knee deep in it yourself!!! LOL. And McCain better tread lightly, too, because he’s got some muddy ties himself…his buddy was indicted in Arizona today as well.
Posted by: Colorado Independent | March 4, 2008, 11:46 pm 11:46 pm
Missouri,
Colorado
Washington
South Carolina
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Those a major states. I am not sure if Hillary carries any of those states in the fall. Admittedly, Obama may not have a lock on them, but his message resonates there.
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 11:47 pm 11:47 pm
Hey, my Clinton friends! Still waiting to hear how Clinton could win the general without the majority support of independents voters — something she’s been utterly incapable of doing in the primaries, and something she can’t win the general without.
Even if every single Democratic Obama supporter turned out for her in November, without those independents which thus far only Obama attracts in significant numbers, she can’t win.
Anyone willing to take a crack at this?
Posted by: Mark | March 4, 2008, 11:47 pm 11:47 pm
Why did Obama thank San Antonio? They voted for Clinton.
Posted by: Jim | March 4, 2008, 11:47 pm 11:47 pm
Not sure why the SoS for texas has those delegate totals as they have the same number of precincts reporting but it also says the results are not official.
She is still winning the pop vote by 3% maybe some of those delegates are from caucuses.
theres more delegates than that to Texas.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 11:48 pm 11:48 pm
Why we even bother to vote is beyond me,as the media has already stated who has won.Obamas problem is ,he has been to much of a gentleman,he’s refused to ‘fight’ Hillary with the same weapons she has used against him,comedy late night shows,rumors ,lies and deliberate distorted stories.It’s time for Obama to start fighting back,with TRUTH and FACTS .Not one media station has bothered to take note that for some odd reason McCain seems to avoid confronting Hillary for ANY REASON ,WHY ?The one thing Hillary has managed to do ,she has damaged and is splitting the democratic party ,which is what the republicans have always wanted.She has stood and mocked fellow democrats in full view of the entire world ,Obama isn’t the first .When a democrat HELPS a republican gang up on a fellow democrat,the democratic party needs to find out WHY?I am seriously considering sawitching parties,I am so disgusted with the democratic party ALLOWING Clinton to humiliate this party and this COUNTRY in full view of the world.
Posted by: Joyce In Texas | March 4, 2008, 11:49 pm 11:49 pm
Jason, Washington is a blue state. Either Clinton or Obama will win the state in November.
Posted by: Susan Bertalotto | March 4, 2008, 11:50 pm 11:50 pm
Yeah those are district level delegates but there are still 42 at large and 25 PLEO delegates awarded based on pop vote. If hillary is only behind by 2 delegates at the district level that’s good. obama was supposed to do so much better than her in these due to support in urban areas.
Posted by: s.b. | March 4, 2008, 11:53 pm 11:53 pm
Colorado Independant-Exactly my point.Hillary’s faults are out there!There are SOOO many questionable things about Obama!Have you forgotten that he’s supposed to be the clean one.Otherwise there’s no change in his changing of Washington politics!
Posted by: Nevada 4 Hillary | March 4, 2008, 11:53 pm 11:53 pm
s.b., what you and other Clinton supporters keep forgetting is that winning a *democratic* primary in a given state is not the same as winning that state outright in the general election, with ALL voters factored in.
Obama won handily in Utah. Does that mean Utah will go Democratic in November? Not bloody likely.
It’s the same with Clinton: Winning a Dem primary in OK, or CA, or OH, or TX, DOES NOT by any means assure a general-election win in that same state.
Some of the “big states” Hillary has won, *could* even go for Obama in the general! And vice versa, of course.
Posted by: Mark | March 4, 2008, 11:54 pm 11:54 pm
Wow — Charlie Gibson, live on ABC, just said his network HAS NOT called OH for Clinton yet. Still too many big, Obama-leaning precincts yet to report in.
Posted by: Mark | March 4, 2008, 11:56 pm 11:56 pm
Oops thanks Susan my bad.
I think the only fair way to have Florida and Michigan count is for a new election with full campaigning. Only then, when the playing field is even, can the votes count. Hillary does not get to claim victory when they all agreed that they would not campaign (FL) or when Obama was not on the ballot (MI)
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 11:56 pm 11:56 pm
And a mere two minutes later, Gibson DOES call OH for Clinton!
Never mind. : )
Posted by: Mark | March 4, 2008, 11:58 pm 11:58 pm
Obama’s skeletons are slowly starting to emerge. The DNC, I believe, like the rest of us, reads the papers and watches the news. They are aware of these potential scandals and will not throw their support behind Obama until they are SURE he IS a sure thing. All she has to do is wait out the clock…
Posted by: LeeLee07 | March 4, 2008, 11:59 pm 11:59 pm
No S.B the remaining 67 that you point out are tied to the caucus results tonight. As a result Texas really may not be called until tomorrow sometime.
It is all very confusing
Posted by: Jason | March 4, 2008, 11:59 pm 11:59 pm
What a night. What was supposed to be a close race in Ohio turned out not to be at all. She has over a 226,000 vote lead. In my home state of TEXAS she has a 57,000 vote lead. What a fighter. Two days almost all of the Texas polls showed her either behind or tied with Obama, now she’s 57,000 votes ahead and 3% ahead. I voted for Huckabee cause I believe in him, but as a military man I could live with Clinton far better than Obama. WAY TO GO SENATOR CLINTON!!!
Posted by: jason1006 | March 5, 2008, 12:04 am 12:04 am
Now is has over 59,000 more. The night started out with Obama ahead by more than 100,000. I got to watch that lead diminish in just over an hour. The she was 2,200 ahead and then 5,000 and then so on.
Posted by: jason That1006 | March 5, 2008, 12:08 am 12:08 am
The are to watch in Texas is Harris County. Only 14% reported so far, but breaking big for Obama.
At the end of the night we are likely going to have a split decision (again). First it was Super (not so super?) Tuesday. Ended up as a statistical draw. Now the next Super Tuesday again a statistical tie again (delegates).
Tim Russert also made an interesting point. If the form hold in who wins what moving forward, then even MI and FL may not save Hillary if she does not win each big (15-20 points per state).
So now what folks?
Posted by: Jason | March 5, 2008, 12:10 am 12:10 am
Obama’s halo is slipping! It’s only a matter of time now!
Posted by: Nevada 4 Hillary | March 5, 2008, 12:10 am 12:10 am
The honeymoon is over Barrack. Go vacuum the living room. I’m going to bed.
Posted by: jason1006 | March 5, 2008, 12:13 am 12:13 am
Just heard it while typing and found it somewhat interesting given the call to make them count.
I do think it s a valid point though. I am at a loss why Team Clinton thinks they will gain a large victory over Obama in Florida and Michigan if he has a chance to campaign there. I don’t think either will be a game changer.
Posted by: Jason | March 5, 2008, 12:18 am 12:18 am
Has anyone heard any caucus reporting SoS for Texas has no mention of them on their web site. hmmm???? I mean people didnt bring sleeping bags right. They have to be over.
Posted by: s.b. | March 5, 2008, 12:19 am 12:19 am
Haven’t heard anything on the caucus! What about the polls that were kept open late for Obama in Ohio? I don’t hear them questioning that-like they would be if it were Hillary!
Posted by: Nevada 4 Hillary | March 5, 2008, 12:22 am 12:22 am
Jeez, Nevada, will you quit with the tiresome anti-Obama shots in *every* post? It’s getting quite old, and you do your candidate no favors whatsoever.
Posted by: Mark | March 5, 2008, 12:28 am 12:28 am
I don’t understand Kevin’s assertion that superdelegates who flipped from Hillary Clinton to Senator Obama can “flip back” without “looking bad.”
Don’t they already look bad for flipping when it looked like support was growing for Senator Obama and they abandoned the ugly fat girl for the guy with pretty grin?
This is American politics after, all, isn’t it, which is essentially a spin-off of “American Idol.”
Rest your mind, Kevin; no matter how well she performs, the ugly, fat girl is never going to win the nation’s popularity contest. Where have you been for the past ten years? Have you never watched “Survivor” or any other reality show? Obama is the ultimate “survivor.” He looks brave, and handsome, and strong. I think that’s quite enough to consider him the winner.
Yes we can defeat — what did a McCain supporter call her on Monday? — “the b*tch.” (Thank goodness, THAT comment didn’t make the news!!!) She supports abortion, for goodness sake: that ALONE would sink her vs. Senator Obama (who doesn’t support it) in any general election match-up.
Welcome on board to those Democrats who oppose abortion and support the war in Iraq. It’s darn time we heard from the REAL minority!
Posted by: Eric Swanson | March 5, 2008, 12:29 am 12:29 am
you hear hilary say that she florida and michigan? The nerve of some ppl.
Posted by: colin | March 5, 2008, 12:29 am 12:29 am
The caucus may have just closed in some areas, but we may not know the results for days.
And by the way, Hillary also got some help in the Sandusky area with late closings so can we please put that to rest. For wanting to have all the people vote some of you are awfully critical when they kept polls open to deal some of the new election problems in Ohio.
Posted by: Jason | March 5, 2008, 12:35 am 12:35 am
Seriously Marc-Truth hurts doesn’t it!Especially when you have to admit you’ve been bamboozled!
Posted by: Nevada 4 Hillary | March 5, 2008, 12:35 am 12:35 am
And the numbers in Texas are fluid as different precincts come in. But it is a safe bet any primary delegates are going to be +1 in either direction or a wash. It will be the caucus results that matter.
Posted by: Jason | March 5, 2008, 12:36 am 12:36 am
Fist caucus results on CNN.com:
5% reporting
Obama 3,737 56%
Clinton 2,906 44%
Posted by: Jason | March 5, 2008, 12:41 am 12:41 am
Hillary has won Texas! You Go, Girl!
Hillary ’08
Posted by: LeeLee07 | March 5, 2008, 12:48 am 12:48 am
Eric – Coarse language aside, I wrote that SD’s cannot “flip” back to Clinton without making themselves look bad. Most changed due to pressure from their constituency who voted overwhelmingly Obama. At this point VT and RI cancel out at +3 each. There’s a lot votes to come in in OH (many of them Obama votes) so the margin will shrink and delegates may end +10 to +15 for Clinton. As you pointed out, Obama may go +6 to +8 (or more) in primary delegates and perhaps the same in caucus delegates in TX. So tonight is perhaps actually a net gain in delegates for Obama. Now that McCain is annointed look for some party intervention this week.
Posted by: Kevin | March 5, 2008, 12:49 am 12:49 am
Lee,
Show me the delegates! When is a win not a win. When it is a draw. That is what tonight is.
Even Texas is a draw as Obama will likely win the Caucus portion of the night.
Posted by: Jason | March 5, 2008, 12:51 am 12:51 am
Kevin, it may be even less of a haul for Hillary in Ohio ( net of 5 to 7 maybe). Obama will likely pick up that many net delegates in the Caucus portion of the vote in Texas.
It was not a good night for Obama, and on paper it was a good night for Hillary. However, under the rules which we play, Obama may have actually have won tonight.
What a strange wild ride this is.
Posted by: Jason | March 5, 2008, 12:55 am 12:55 am
Hey Jason – I was just reporting what CNN said. This is going to be a long campaign and I have a feeling we are going to be in for a few surprises.
Posted by: LeeLee07 | March 5, 2008, 12:55 am 12:55 am
I understand Lee, and did not mean to sound like I was firing at you or anything.
It is just at this stage states do not matter, only delegates. Unless she can make a large run on pledged delegates, Hillary’s only hope is to fracture the party. That seems incredibly selfish to me.
Posted by: Jason | March 5, 2008, 12:59 am 12:59 am
Jason – You may be right, it was a cautious calculation. Bottom line, I agree that Obama likely ends the night with a net gain in pledged delegates. Clinton can lay claim to the popular vote from tonight, and they’re about even for the contest to date. WY and MS should swing that back to Obama by next week. I do expect to see some SD commitments this week (again mostly for Obama), so it’s a Pyrrhic victory for Clinton tonight, back to work tomorrow.
Posted by: Kevin | March 5, 2008, 1:07 am 1:07 am
Eric – not sure where you get your information about Obama not supporting abortion… he is pro-choice.
Posted by: DCVoter | March 5, 2008, 1:14 am 1:14 am
I will be interested to see if the Tom Brokaw report of 50 SD coming out for Obama this week comes to fruition. Also if Bill Richardson will put his money where his mouth is when it comes to the pledged delegate lead being the end game.
Hillary may not believe in math, but it believes in her.
Posted by: Jason | March 5, 2008, 1:15 am 1:15 am
Great night for the Clinton camp… the BO Mo is no longer an issue. Can we get back to a real campaign and discuss the issues?
Search Vote Smart to find the organizations website and get the real facts on all the candidates on all the issues!
Posted by: DCVoter | March 5, 2008, 1:16 am 1:16 am
I think she’ll win the caucuses too. GO HILLARY. I’ve never been this excited for a Democrat. It’ll be nice to see her concede to John McCain come November 4th.
Posted by: jason1006 | March 5, 2008, 1:17 am 1:17 am
I hope Governor Huckabee is selected as the VP running mate
Posted by: jason1006 | March 5, 2008, 1:25 am 1:25 am
if you want what’s best for American troops, you can’t support john mccain
Posted by: chris | March 5, 2008, 1:28 am 1:28 am
considering a Hillary Clinton Administration would be in the best interests of our children, our troops and America, it is thankfully obvious that we should send Senator Clinton to defeat mccain and the neo-conservative attack machine which will inevitably make an appearance this fall.
Posted by: chris | March 5, 2008, 1:32 am 1:32 am
Good night to all of you on the internets. Thank you for the spirited discussion.
Posted by: Jason | March 5, 2008, 1:32 am 1:32 am
Because we love our children, we love our troops and we love America: Senator Hillary Clinton for President and Commander-in-Chief
Posted by: chris | March 5, 2008, 1:33 am 1:33 am
And a DARE outfit. Right on, right on!!!Hillary Clinton for President!!!The People’s Choice!
Posted by: Suzannaquanashawn | March 5, 2008, 1:36 am 1:36 am
Go Hillary… You are the best chance for my daughters and millions of other daughters in America. You can open the door so that they can be President in the future, if they want to… I want to see this in my lifetime… And yes, you are the best candidate!
Posted by: AmericansForDaughters | March 5, 2008, 2:01 am 2:01 am
I am so tired of Obama’s mouth. All he can do is talk, no specifics, no understanding or no feeling, he has no real experience or common sense. Canada, Israel and mexico have great concern about this empty suit. The vast majority of our high ranking military have endorsed Hillary. Obama is yesterday, his stolen speeches are getting old.
Posted by: George | March 5, 2008, 2:09 am 2:09 am
Hillary, you are a fighter. The media, Oprah, misguided democrats and republicans-vote-democratic-for-a-day have attacked, but you won! I want a fighter for President – Go Hillary !!!
Posted by: martha | March 5, 2008, 2:14 am 2:14 am
Cmon. Let’s not kid ourselves. This is not a democracy. We need to reform this election process altogether. We got ourselves in this hot mess in Iraq with Dubya in the WH as a result of a broken system we are calling a true democracy!
Posted by: gabbynet | March 5, 2008, 2:15 am 2:15 am
Obama take your stolen speeches, dirty muslim money, and Resko and go back to Chicago. Your time has passed, the people have spoken.
Posted by: leon | March 5, 2008, 2:16 am 2:16 am
The latino voters seen through the hollow politician and his emty speeches. It was a simple decision between a talker, with a sorted past,and a realist with real solutions.
Posted by: miguel | March 5, 2008, 2:26 am 2:26 am
I thought this was a race for the democratic party nominee? So why, if you are so confident in your candidate, are you pushing the Camp Obama theme of Hillary needing to leave the race now? Statements of “do the math” and “stop dragging this out” sound like they are out of the Karl Rove playbook. Is this the lesson you give our children: if your team starts to get behind and it looks like a tough fight ahead, just quit, don’t drag this out. Wow!
So why wasn’t Senator Obama being encouraged to drop out (for the good of the country) or for that matter encouraged to not run when it appeared Senator Clinton was headed towards the nomination? Stop and realize that if EITHER candidate drops out now, a large number of Democratic voters would feel betrayed and, based on what I am hearing, would vote McCain. I say let the race continue, unless you can’t run with the big dogs, then stay on the porch!
Posted by: yellowdogdemocrat | March 5, 2008, 2:49 am 2:49 am
I think that McCain only asked for a bidding process to happen because of ethics problem (ie. no bidding and bribe or PC term – inappropriate gift) He did not specify who should win the award. I think that he was only trying to make sure that the taxpayers get what we pay for…
I think that having ethics is important, but may be that’s not an important criteria for some people in a President…
Posted by: ThatsAFact | March 5, 2008, 2:50 am 2:50 am
Please do not edit out my comments. I am putting them here for a second time. The first time, they appeared only to disappear.
Comments:
I have to say that the assertion by Hillary that she has more experience makes it look as if experience is everything. It is not. One can also have bad experience and in this case, all the experience Hillary talks about is connected with her husband’s presidency and Washington, which needs to be overhauled. All the experience she can boast is the wrong experince and she cannot bring about the real change that everybody is looking for. She must please the lobbysts, the drug companies, and the wealthiest Americans who are her main supporters as opposed to Barack, who is being supported financially by the poor, rich, young old, black, yellow, brown, white, chocolate etc. It is not as if Barack does not have experience either. Just read about his work as a law instructor, in a University in Chicago, his experience as a state senator with quite some accomplishments, his experience as a senator, and his wife’s experince as an administrator of a large hospital and I understand she worked as a vice president at the hospital. Besides, all the experince in Washington put together did not stop the congress from giving a blank check for the most unfortunate war in the history of the world in which thousands of young Americans have been executed and the Iraqi people have their heads cut off and buried in mass graves for no good reason.
I think that temperament is very important and being able to keep the cool even when things are going seriously badly. Hillary is not only very emotional but she was extremely condesending in the way she adressed Barack like a mother scolding her little boy “shame on you Obama” etc. Surprisingly, the media did not comment on this behaviour. This behaviour undescores who Hillary really is and she does not show respect for Barack. On the other hand, we see Barack maintaining his cool under pressure and even with kitchen sinks being thrown at him, remaining dignified. He does not fluctuate minute by minute from being extremely charming to extremely mad.
It seems that Barack is highly well organized in his campaign compared to Hillary, despite her claim for experience. That is one reason Barack is doing so well. He is also not polalizing but rather uniting, which we desperately need in the country. He is inspiring which means that people are taking interest in politics for the first time because of Barack. Whatever happens, I hope Hillary will not continue with her attacks of Barack, which we are all tired off. If Barack did what she is doing he would have been chasticed. I think it is good to lose or win with one’s dignity intact
Posted by: Esther | March 5, 2008, 3:09 am 3:09 am
Barack is backed by the left liberal wing of the democratic party, which does not like the centralist Clintons. They keep on blaming the Clintons lost the congress, despite that’s not their role to re-elect congressmen, it’s the party’s role. That’s the reason that they have a Democratic party chair.
All the Clintons have done is 1. Balance the budget, which leads to 2. one of the longest period of economic prosperity, and of course win the Presidency. #1 and #2 no other recent President can lay claim to and #3 no recent democratic nominee can lay claim to… Next time, go check out the book “The Maestro” (Alan Greenspan book) and you’ll see that Bill Clinton played a big part in the economic prosperity – and that’s good for everyone.
Democrats can’t win the Presidency with the liberal wing, just like the Republican’s greatest problem is the conservatives. Go with Hillary and she’ll have a chance with McCain, but not Barack.
Posted by: Forecast | March 5, 2008, 3:30 am 3:30 am
For anyone interested in seeing how the “electability” picture looks between Obama and Clinton, I have been keeping track of which states I predict will be swing states (less than 5% difference in 2004 and/or less than 30% Bush approval rating). I also include the Red and Blue states in my counting based on voter turnout. I am not including McCain numbers since I knew he would get their nom. Here is what the numbers look like so far:
For states that have held primaries/caucuses for both parties so far:
Red States in 2004 with higher Dem turnouts account for 78 electors. 52 Clinton, 26 Obama
Blue States in 2004 with higher Dem turnouts account for 142 electors. 102 Clinton, 40 Obama
Blue Battleground States in 2004 with Higher Dem turnouts account for 74 electors. 36 Clinton, 38 Obama
Red Battleground States in 2004 with Higher Dem turnouts account for 102 electors. 62 Clinton, 40 Obama
Electoral totals so far: 252 Clinton, 144 Obama
Clinton definitely appears more electable considering the fact only 270 electors are needed to win in November and there are only 10 states left in the primary contest. She is onto something here… if she can pull out a win and unify the party with the right ticket… I think she will beat McCain.
Posted by: DCVoter | March 5, 2008, 4:26 am 4:26 am
Obama should clearly bow out after his poor performance last night. How can the Dems win in Nov. with Obama? The math just isn’t there.
Posted by: Jim | March 5, 2008, 7:08 am 7:08 am
CLINTON SHOULD BE AWARDED THE DELEGATES FOR FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN TOO!
It is time for the democratic party to stop the nonsense and give her these delegates.
Posted by: Jackson | March 5, 2008, 8:24 am 8:24 am
Ok it’s time for the (MAD) Policy those of you that are educated in history will know what I am talking about.
It’s called Mutual Assured Destruction let Obama and Hillary destroy each other.
So all you Obama supporters like myself if Obama does not win lets vote for McCain.
Posted by: smash | March 5, 2008, 10:08 am 10:08 am
I urge all Obama supporters to support McCain are do not vote this november. Let the Hillary people stand on there own do support her in any way.
Posted by: smash | March 5, 2008, 10:11 am 10:11 am
Why is CNN so Obama–sided? Even when it was obvious that Sen Clinton had wrapped up Ohio (57-41%) they held the “predicted winner status” quite obviously, even with 55% of the precincts in. Previously in other primaries, they had put forth an Obamam win prediction with 14% in.
And they failed to point out that Clinton’s voter lead continued to increase over Obama’asteadily from 10:30pm—about 7000 ahead, to 50,000 by 11:30—yet John Frank kept wiggling his hands around a map of Teaxas obviuosly hoping for an Obama pull through.
CNN should be called ObamaNN.
Posted by: Richard H. Koehler | March 5, 2008, 12:20 pm 12:20 pm
Ohio and hundreds of thousands of voters in Texas have been duped into voting for Mrs. Clinton. Mrs. Clinton duped them with the lies and innuendos on NAFTA and the 3:00 a.m. call. But see–God exposed Clinton on NAFTA lies against Obama. Now it is discovered that she is the one communiting with the Canadian governemnt that the promises she was giving on NAFTA are bunch of bulls designed to gain votes. Well she gained the votes and won. I strongly call on Ohio and Texas voters to chastise Clinton and to demand their votes back!!! This exposure on NAFTA will let you know about what she means when she talks about the 3:00 a.m. phone call. Hillary will not answer that call. If if she does, she won’t know what to do or she will most probably make the wrong decision, trying to do things just by herself without consultation or she will be worrying and bugged down with guilts about what she has done to people. Obama will make very good decisions, and he will make sure to get together with the right people to help him explore necessary alternatives and contingencies. Wake up America and stop bveing maneurvered by people like Hillary.
Mr. Barack Obama is actually stronger in national security, economy, healthcare, and some of the other issues than either Hillary or McCain. America is at a stage in her life that she needs overhaul. The agent of that overhaul is Obama for such a time as this. His middle name does not matter. He did not give himself the name. He loves everyone, including Israel. What people do not know is that Obama attends one of the strictest Christian denominations that commit very seriously to serving Jesus Christ. Church of Christ is STRICT! A weak Christian cannot attend such a denomination. It is seriously Pentecostal. It is also becoming very clear that Hillary can do or say anything to win while Obama, on the other hand, being a strong Christian, simply does not want to attack Hillary negatively, although he and everyone else knows how to do it. right now, Hillary is striving to mess up the chances of the democratic party in the general election.
NOW Catch this: America cannot be resurrected into vitality and prosperity until significant number of her citizens become energized by the inspiration, wakening, and motivating spirit that God has embedded in Obama for the benefit of America AT THIS TIME. When people are aroused and awake again, then they can work hard and participate together toward believing and making everything work toward strengthening the economy, family, political system, national security, and building healthy and trusting relationships within America and between America and the rest of the world. That’s NATIONAL SECURITY! THAT’S ECONOMIC STRENGTH! THAT’S PEOPLE TRUSTING AND BELIEVING IN AMERICA AGAIN! I am a Professof of Business Administration and strategic management for a long time. Obama is what America needs at this time. World leaders will actually respect him much more than others due to his humble spirit but also quiet inner strength! In fact, terrorists will think much-more than twice before they try to attack any American interests with Obama as President. they already have it in their heads that this man cannot play with them. Obama is more humble than Reagan, but he has a tough demeanor similar to Reagan (if not better) that outside world will fear and respect! He will not make many mistakes and he relatively will not waste resources as many American Presidents have done. He will appropriate resources wisely and monitor their use and who uses them, especially in relations to other nations. Many nations trick the United States into sending the dollars; but the dollars have usually been used to accomplish very little. Most dollars are wasted in highly corrupt foreign leaders who claim to be assisting their nations. Such leaders will find it difficult to try to play Obama. There is so much to write, but I will stop here! Feel free to get the Obama campaign to contact me. I will advise them on how to win the general election. Well, one more thing: I strongly advise the Obam campaign to run this ad in Texas. I am writing it for them right now—
“….. Shouldn’t the President be the one, the only one that is capable of uniting people and solve problems without letting any problem turn into crises? The inspiration, my ability to relate to people instead of using intimidation or fight-posture, and my ability to manage or analyze contingencies and draw necessary conclusions and judgments define domestic and national security for America. Such qualification leads to getting problems solved without heading into crises that will bruise and drain America and wound our economy and every other thing! That’s REAL security! That’s the REAL experience you need! That’s Barack Obama! We don’t have to use force when we don’t have to use force! If experience leads to consistently bad judgments, then what is that experience? You be the judge! How can somone who does not mind duping Ohio and Texas into voting for her with lies on NAFTA be your President? How can Hillary Clinton be the President of this great nation if her experience is on lies, innuendos, and accusing Obama wrongly for what she herself is doing? She is both Ms and Mrs. Wink Wink and double-talk! Make Hillary pay for Ohio and Texas! Run away from HILLARY! Leave her alone! She is TOO DESPERATE to be the President of this United States of America. Her mind wont be steady at 3:00 a.m. She has the qualities that may produce the worst President America may ever produce. I will make the right judgment at 3:00 a.m. given the circumstances of the call! People’s lives are at stake; therefore no one can jump into quick and un-chewed decision without consulting the Presidential cabinet or even the congress or even the American people. Run away from misjudgment. Make me your President and let us deliver Change We Can Believe In. YES WE CAN!”
I wrote this ad based on my analysis of Obama. It is almost a perfect ad for him! Obama: go ahead and run this ad! God bless you, and God bless our America.
Posted by: Strongblood1 | March 6, 2008, 10:58 pm 10:58 pm