Bill Clinton Says Underdog Hillary Stayed Positive in Pennsylvania Primary
ABC News’ Sarah Amos reports: Former President Bill Clinton hit the trail in North Carolina today, continuing to use his wife Hillary Clinton’s win in the Pennsylvania primary as momentum for her campaign.
"Most of what people have said in this campaign is wrong, including who’s been more positive and who’s been more negative," the former president told a crowd of more than 2,500 in Boone, N.C. "She’s talked relentlessly about the solutions. She won in Pennsylvania after being hit with negative ad after negative ad after negative ad, and negative letters. And all she did was respond. She won being outspent three to one because the people knew she was in it for them."
While Clinton’s account of the campaign in Pennsylvania put the blame for all of the negative campaigning on Sen. Barack Obama’s camp, the voters of Pennsylvania largely disagreed. Many polls found that voters thought both candidates turned increasingly negative in the final weeks of campaigning.
Clinton also made a point to talk about the gas tax today, a topic he often mentions, but rarely dives into.
"In the short run, she would release some oil from our strategic petroleum reserve. It’s full. The oil companies pay into it every month. You can release it, send it directly to the refineries, create more oil in the long run, more gasoline, and bring the price down through the summer months. Second, she would put an excess profits fee on the oil companies who are making record profits and give relief to the taxpayers from the gax tax in the summer months. If you did that you could lower the price of gas between 30 to 40 cents a gallon. It would make a huge difference, particularly to people who have to drive a long way to work," he said.
Clinton spoke on the campus of Appalachian State University, whose underdog football team rose to fame by beat perennial powerhouse University of Michigan last year. Clinton used that bit of history to remind the crowd that his wife is still the underdog in this race.
"Folks, I’m a sports nut, and I’m glad to be here at the home (cheering) of the greatest football upset in modern history, so I think it will have special meaning here if I begin with a line I always say today. Whenever somebody tells you you can’t win, it’s because they’re afraid you will," Clinton told the cheering crowd.
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bill she lost more than half her lead. She went very negative, including using a guy who used to work for you and a guy who wanted to work for you as moderators of a debate. She used Rev. wright, bitter and race as reasons not to vote for Obama, none of which have anything to do with the issues. She came out for the war in Iraq, preemptive strikes in Iran, and no solution to social security, economy or education. She lied about Bosnia, taxes and experience in the White House. her time on your coattails needs to be over. and just when was the last time she fired a gun or went to church?
Posted by: Louis | April 29, 2008, 9:47 pm 9:47 pm
Better cover your rear end in NC Obamabots. If he loses there heis finished. kaput.
Posted by: geevill | April 29, 2008, 9:50 pm 9:50 pm
Better cover your rear end in NC Obamabots. If he loses there heis finished. kaput.
Posted by: geevill | April 29, 2008, 9:50 pm 9:50 pm
Sure she did — and I’ve got a bridge to sell you!
And, Geevil, YOU WISH!!!
Obama 2008 — Yes, WE CAN!!!
Posted by: Jackt51 -- Vietnam Vet and Proud Liberal | April 29, 2008, 10:02 pm 10:02 pm
For goodness sakes, the Clinton campaign ran a sleazy and a dishonest campaign, including push polling. Who still believes anything they have to say?
Posted by: Eileen from Maine | April 29, 2008, 10:02 pm 10:02 pm
I do believe Hillary could solve most of our problems and that is why I will vote for her.I think this thing with Wright is justy putting it out there to det it out of the way before the GE good acting on both OBama and Wright’s and MSM. But it still won’t go away .Obama the arrogant is a better title for him.
Posted by: Bishop | April 29, 2008, 10:04 pm 10:04 pm
Positive? Well now we know what Bill considers positive.
Then he goes and panders with a couple short term fixes for energy crisis. Same old, same old. We have been playing this game since the 70′s. Oil just keeps going up and up. By the way how much is this oil going up because of the falling dollar, that is directly tide to the deficit? Explain to me how lower taxes is going to balance our budget?
Posted by: Thinking | April 29, 2008, 10:05 pm 10:05 pm
bill anb your wife the most lier people i never see in my life time
Posted by: jb | April 29, 2008, 10:10 pm 10:10 pm
Billy—– she does not even know how to spell POSITIVE near mind practice it.You and she make a good pair .Both are liars,don’t know right from wrong and will do and say anythiing to get back your power.You are sicken……
Posted by: h | April 29, 2008, 10:12 pm 10:12 pm
I believed in Bill, and I believe in Hil! He did a great job running this country with his head and his heart, and Senator Clinton will do the same.
Noone is perfect, not you, not me, not the Clintons, but she is suited to run the country, despite her imperfections. What matters is that she wants to make the country a better place! I would love to have a debate in 8and a half years about whether she was a better president than her husband…
Posted by: Ken in Texas | April 29, 2008, 10:13 pm 10:13 pm
wow what cloud is he on she wasnt negative…please once again lets pass the buck again,
i hope she loses big the Governor had it sort of right she is powerful..cause that is all she can think about is the POWER.
OBAMA 08
Posted by: Lauren | April 29, 2008, 10:20 pm 10:20 pm
EXCESS PROFIT FEE???
WELL GUESS THE PRICE OF GAS WILL GO UP AGAIN. THE GAS COMPANIES WILL ALWAYS PASS THE FEES ONTO THE CONSUMER.
THEY WILL NOT GIVE UP ON PROFITS.
Posted by: Lauren | April 29, 2008, 10:23 pm 10:23 pm
C’mon Bill KEEP “speaking your mind” out in public. You do a GREAT favor for Obama, EVERY time you open your mouth. If you really wanted Hilliary to win you would STFU!!! Obama has learned his lession and gagged Wright; What’s Hilliary’s excuse for not gagging you!?!
Posted by: Zdnet | April 29, 2008, 10:28 pm 10:28 pm
Hillary 08 …
It is nice to see Bill supporting Hillary.
Posted by: Meg | April 29, 2008, 10:35 pm 10:35 pm
Hillary has a lot to offer. Obama has not offered anything. Substance!
Posted by: D | April 29, 2008, 10:37 pm 10:37 pm
Exit polls in PA placed the blame 66% on Hillary and 50% on Obama for the negative campaign. Now Bills advisors are counseling the campaign, and Bill as chief advisor is telling Hill to hit harder, sharper, sooner, and meaner. Bill is so yesterday ….
Posted by: CS | April 29, 2008, 10:46 pm 10:46 pm
If Wright had not been affecting Obama’s poll numbers then he would stayed quite about his recent comments. The reality is that the internal polls showed Obama melting faster than snow in Miami! This thing started on Friday and it took them till today to see the effect it was having and now they are trying to stop the bleeding! Well it is too little too late and Hillary will keep it close in NC and win in IN. By the end of this process she will have the popular vote and the superdelegates will come over to her because they know she can beat McCain, that gives her the edge!
Rise Hillary Rise!!!!
Posted by: russell | April 29, 2008, 10:49 pm 10:49 pm
Hillary won in PA, and she’ll win again in Indiana. She may even win NC, after the staged Wright speech at the National Press Club, and the carefully scripted Obama denouncement repeat (courtesy of Axelrod).
Great strategy to win over blue-collar white voters, Axelrod. Too bad it backfired.
RISE HILLARY, RISE!!
Posted by: Emily | April 29, 2008, 10:55 pm 10:55 pm
Warren5678 – get a life and stop being coy. This is a real world and a real electiona and you want to write fairy tales that are about nonsense. I think the Disney site is at another URL>>>>
Posted by: Paul | April 29, 2008, 10:59 pm 10:59 pm
Sad how Bill Clinton has completely destroyed his legacy. Soon he’ll be known primarily as the guy who tried to sabotage President Obama’s campaign.
Posted by: Jeff | April 29, 2008, 11:06 pm 11:06 pm
Emily and Russell, I’m sorry byt somehow the script that they gave you from Hillary’s campaign and the list of articles to comment on accordingly have over lapped. Your affiliation with therir campaign is showing. Oh well!
In terms of the idea that Bill Clinton is putting out there, its reflects views I expressed before. These are ClintRovian tactics. Do these things yourself and have the gall to point your finger at the other guy and say he is doing it. You force people into cognitive disonance. They either have to believe you or reject you completely. If you are a former President or in the case of Rove and Bush, you are the President, you can cause people to doubt themselves and their own senses. I don’t think this is going to work much longer. Especially not at the levels that it is being used. Its every conversation and discourse now. What? We don’t do that only the ugly other side does. We are nice people!
I still believe the truth is that Obama was born to lead America at this time. The important question is – will America take up this generous and much needed opportunity?
The way for Democrats to win in November is to harness the dramatic movement for change that Obama is leading and that is critical to America’s future. Many now can see that this is a movement by the grass roots, not just a bunch of words from Obama as some would have you believe. If Clinton got on the bus instead of throwing herself in front of it, all the more powerful. She will not do this until she understands that playing the race card (make no mistake who has played this card) will not be enough.
Hillary’s way to the nomination even with leverage on the party establishment is predicated on character assassination. Obama’s character is good and she can’t dredge up any real issues- Wright and Rezko and a slip of the tongue about guns and religion that is based in truth are not real character issues. So she has, in addition to playing the race card and the patriotism card, initiated and perpetrated all this chatter about guilt by association. She is trying to find or rather create as many such things as she can, however obtuse, and thread them together and say it makes a pattern. Now this has given license to the fools, the bigots and those afraid of change as well as the Republicans.
America will get what it deserves out of this election – if its garbage in then its garbage out. America deserves better, and if it truly sees the reality of the situation, it will elect Obama. If it does not, it will get one of the other available status quo options.
I invite, Americans to look at the prospects for America and Americans as a whole nation.
Posted by: Paul | April 29, 2008, 11:07 pm 11:07 pm
I couldn’t agree more with “geevill”.
The obama supporters will go nuts if Hillary wins in N.Carolina.Now that she’s got the backing of their governor,hopefully she can pull off wins in N.Carolina and Indiana.I heard some of the superdelegates on some of the morning,political news shows this past Sunday saying that Indiana would be the tie-breaker.So,even if she just wins Indiana next week,then goes on to win W.Virginia,my home state of Kentucky,Oregon and Puerto Rico,the super delegates will have to see that she is the stronger candidate.Even an MSNBC news anchor said she was the stronger candidate and we all know that MSNBC is in the tank for Obama.I agree with “Ken in Texas” that Bill Clinton was a good president and I believe Hillary will be even better.I am looking forward to that debate in 8 years!!!Obama can only blame Rev.Wright if he loses the nomination,that man is no friend of Obama’s.He was only trying to make things worses for Obama by speaking at the press club on Sunday.It was a good thing for Obama to completely denounce Rev.Wright and his comments today,I just think he should have cut all ties with that man sooner.
Posted by: mceversole | April 29, 2008, 11:09 pm 11:09 pm
Obama has done nothing than prove that he too is the status quo. Even his spiritual mentor of 20 years has expressed this sentiment. He has based his campaign on hope, change and judgment which has been squandered in the past month. This is his election to lose now. We’ll see how it rolls in the remaining primaries.
Posted by: LOM | April 29, 2008, 11:11 pm 11:11 pm
Bill, you’re a fabulous speaker, and Hillary is a terrific fighter. Obama’s campaign chief, Axelrod on the other hand, likes to think he has strategic acumen.
THE WRIGHT STRATEGY
The plan hatched by David Axelrod unfolds…
Axelrod: I just talked to Jeremiah, and he’s prepped and ready for the National Press club speech.
Obama: Good.
Axelrod: Okay, we need the blue-collar white vote, so you need to denounce Wright again, and that’ll take care of the white vote.
Obama: What about my strong hold on the black vote? How do we keep them satisfied?
Axelrod: Don’t worry! African American’s will believe what Rev. Wright’s gonna say about you only distancing yourself for political purposes. That’ll appease all of them in North Carolina and Indiana.
Obama: Cool, then we’re all set. Hey, what was that cabinet post Jeremiah said he wanted after I’m elected?
Can’t win ‘em all Axelrod.
Rise Hillary, Rise!
Posted by: Emily | April 29, 2008, 11:14 pm 11:14 pm
Bill, why did 70% of the Pennsylvania voters say Hillary attacked unfairly.
Hillary is now the front runner, so it’s time for the media to review her last 6 weeks of campaigning. They need to point out all the lies and flip flopping they are doing.
The media should also question why Hillary can’t stand on her own merits. She has Bill run around playing the good/bad cop every other day?
Since Bill is getting more media coverage than Hillary, maybe the debates should be between Bill and Barack.
Posted by: Dan | April 29, 2008, 11:14 pm 11:14 pm
mceversole — I agree with most of your last statement, but don’t think Hillary will win Oregon. The rural areas are probably too sparse to overcome the numbers in the urban areas. However, I did see that the Register Guard (Eugene) was calling for Obama to engage in a debate. If he can’t appease one of the most liberal papers in the state, that could be a sign of defection from his candidacy.
Posted by: LOM | April 29, 2008, 11:15 pm 11:15 pm
Dan — By what standards are you making Clinton the frontrunner in this race? As most Obama supporters like to point out, he is ahead in pledged delegates, states won and popular vote (excluding MI and FL). That sounds like the definition of frontrunner.
Posted by: LOM | April 29, 2008, 11:17 pm 11:17 pm
“Obama’s character is good and she can’t dredge up any real issues- Wright and Rezko and a slip of the tongue about guns and religion that is based in truth are not real character issues. ”
C’mon, Paul. How many times can two men have so called slips of the tongue before you realize that they have no character?
Rise Hillary, Rise!
Posted by: Emily | April 29, 2008, 11:21 pm 11:21 pm
Rise, Hillary, rise? Sounds very stupid.
Posted by: tom | April 29, 2008, 11:25 pm 11:25 pm
Hillary will win based on people’s belief that she is the best equipped and uniquely qualified to tackle our nation’s critical issues from health care, the economy, education, the Iraq war, etc. She is ready to deliver solutions for our nation. She is the one to win the General Election this fall against McCain.
Clinton/Edwards 2008!!!
Posted by: LOM | April 29, 2008, 11:26 pm 11:26 pm
Hillary has been positive especially during the last few days when Rev Wright was speaking up… I think that Hiollary just tells it like it is and Obama thought he had it and didnt have do say anything himself but let his surrogates be underhanded to the max
Posted by: stajniam | April 29, 2008, 11:26 pm 11:26 pm
“Rise, Hillary, rise? Sounds very stupid.”
That’s the same way the Obama camp feels about “change we can believe in” now.
Posted by: LOM | April 29, 2008, 11:27 pm 11:27 pm
Like I predicted. It seems like the only thing that has remained consistent in all this is …………JERIMIAH WRIGHT.
He has said the same things all along. He has not wavered one bit.
Its OBAMA who has given 4 different versions of how he feels about it, and believe me, every version that contradicts each other will be used against him.
Now, and even more so if he is ever stupidly the nominee.
By the way. I forgot to mention. If Obama becomes the nominee, it will be the first time in HISTORY they handed the nomination over to the guy who LOST every major primary.
Its Hillary who should feel cheated here.
Posted by: tomdavie | April 29, 2008, 11:27 pm 11:27 pm
LOM
You said it right! I think Edwards will seal the deal
Posted by: staniam | April 29, 2008, 11:28 pm 11:28 pm
Yea Obama has contradicted himself with todays speech and the speech he gave on race
Posted by: staniam | April 29, 2008, 11:29 pm 11:29 pm
tomdavie: Obama is ahead, Clinton is behind. In your fantasy world she is ahead.
Posted by: ron | April 29, 2008, 11:30 pm 11:30 pm
LOM: No, your wrong on that point.
Posted by: tom | April 29, 2008, 11:32 pm 11:32 pm
If Obama wins the nomination, then he wins it. The rules are the rules and that will be what is dealt. The downside to this outcome, however, is that he is simply unelectable and John McCain will be our next President. I suspect there are a fair number of superdelegates that know this otherwise, the floodgates would have opened by now. What happened to the 50 SDs that were ready to pledge their support after Ohio and Texas? Obama is having a difficulty garnering the support of white blue collar workers which is an obvious important voting bloc in the GE. So, if the SDs really want a viable chance this fall to take back the White House, they will need to back Clinton, which they can do because the rules are the rules.
Posted by: LOM | April 29, 2008, 11:33 pm 11:33 pm
tom — That was such a compelling argument. You’re right, I was wrong by design. I was making a point that you were wrong. Can you tell me from where the term “Rise, Hillary Rise” was coined? Or do you like making stupid statements to “prove” your point?
Posted by: LOM | April 29, 2008, 11:35 pm 11:35 pm
LOM: How is Obama unelectable when he is beating Mccain in the polls int he following swing states and red states: Indiana, Colorado, New-Mexico, Nevada, Virginia, Iowa, Georgia, Missouri, and Oregon. Looks like he is electable…
Posted by: tom | April 29, 2008, 11:35 pm 11:35 pm
Emily – a slip of the tongue is not a character issue. Have you never made a comment where you phrased things inappropriately? I suppose Hillary is the only one who does not make such mistakes? What about Bosnia? I won’t go on…. You know the rest….
Posted by: Paul | April 29, 2008, 11:36 pm 11:36 pm
ahead for now Tom but not in a few days shes already leading nationally and its down to 10 pts in NC and shes up 3 in IN its over face it
Posted by: staniam | April 29, 2008, 11:37 pm 11:37 pm
stanium: down to just ten in NC. Like ten isn’t a lot. He’s going to win NC, OR, SD, MT, and eiher tie or win in Indiana. The math is still against her.
Posted by: tom | April 29, 2008, 11:39 pm 11:39 pm
Tom
Wrong again
Hillary today is leading Mccain nationally by 9 and Obama is withing the margin of error and Obama will not tie In but Hillary may tie NC which will split the delegates… its over :)
Posted by: staniam | April 29, 2008, 11:41 pm 11:41 pm
@ LOM:
The phrase, Rise Hillary, Rise was coined by Maya Angelou from a beautiful poem she wrote for Hillary entitled, Still I Rise.
Posted by: Emily | April 29, 2008, 11:43 pm 11:43 pm
its laughable to still brign up the bosnia thing like Obama hasnt been lying even about the existence of Wright and ayers etc
Posted by: staniam | April 29, 2008, 11:43 pm 11:43 pm
stanium: Polls reflect what is happening this week, and this week only…NOT THE FALL. Even if CLinton wins IN and ties in NC she won’t get more than 10 extra delegates. That still leaves her 120-125 delegates BEHIND OBAMA. You need a reality check.
Posted by: tom | April 29, 2008, 11:44 pm 11:44 pm
Apparently Obamabots dont know of such poet laureats that reside at Wake Forest University :)
Posted by: staniam | April 29, 2008, 11:45 pm 11:45 pm
Tom
No she netted 10 with a 9 pt win in PA it will be more than that because NC has 170 delegates at least get your facts straight Obama is history
Posted by: staniam | April 29, 2008, 11:47 pm 11:47 pm
stanium: Wrong again.. Pennsylvania had 158 delegates, NC has 115 delegates..seems to me like your making up facts on the spot. Go research your lies before you post them.
Posted by: tom | April 29, 2008, 11:50 pm 11:50 pm
Tom — You must take us all for idiots. What “polls” are you using? I did a quick look at pollster at the most recent polling work done. I didn’t see any information on Geogia, but in all but one state you listed, McCain is beating Obama. In Colorado, the only state that Obama was “ahead” in the polls, the data showed it was actually a statistical tie, so your above assertion is pretty much a flat out lie.
BTW, Oregon is NOT a swing state. It has voted “D” in the last 5 presidential elections.
State | Survey | Date | McCain | Obama
Indiana | Research 2000 | 4/24 | 51 | 43
Colorado | Rasmussen | 4/16 | 43 | 46
New Mexico | SurveyUSA | 4/13 | 50 | 44
Nevada | Rasmussen | 4/21 | 49 | 43
Virginia | SurveyUSA | 4/13 | 52 | 44
Iowa | Research 2000 | 4/23 | 41 | 49
Missouri | SurveyUSA | 4/13 | 50 | 42
You do know there is this thing called the internet where we can call bull$hit on your lies, don’t you?
Posted by: LOM | April 29, 2008, 11:51 pm 11:51 pm
@ Paul,
Not to belabor a point, but you can’t be serious. The tongue slips you attribute to both Obama and Wright are incalculable. So many slips, in fact, that the only explanation is Tourette’s.
Posted by: Emily | April 29, 2008, 11:52 pm 11:52 pm
Emily — I KNOW that! I was challenging “tom” on his stupid posting.
Funny, isn’t Oprah Winfrey’s greatest hero Maya Angelou? I haven’t heard from her since she was stumping for Obama in California right before Super Tuesday. Hmmmm…buyer’s remorse?
Posted by: LOM | April 29, 2008, 11:53 pm 11:53 pm
LOM: You made a mistake…in your facts Obama is ahead in Iowa. I don’t know where tom got his information, but I saw a poll in Indiana last week that showed Obama 49% Mccain 41%.
Posted by: kate | April 29, 2008, 11:54 pm 11:54 pm
Dem super delegates wont be foolish enough to vote for DOA candidate, especially with hillary winning the popular vote.
ultra liberal democrats don’t care
about all of baracks baggage:
-James Wright’s “god damn America” sermon,
-Antoine’ Rezco, jailed political fixer, baracks first huge donor
-domestic terrorists Ayers and Dorhn
these guys blew up 25 bombs in the US
-bitter small town Americans, clinging to religion – like a pacifier
-HAMAS in the church bulletin
-he admitted smoking crack / cocaine
-
but mainstreet democrats do care:
see PA OH (hillary clobbered obama)
and if the media exposed the real barack earlier, he would never have won the early states he did…
for 16 months hillary got hammered and obama got a free ride… after some of his skeletons are out of the closet he gets clubbed like a baby seal in PA and OH…
obama smells like mcgovern and dukakis and gore and kerry..
the republican swiftboat machine has baracks number.
Posted by: indy idiot | April 29, 2008, 11:55 pm 11:55 pm
kate — you’re right. Obama is ahead in Iowa. I had the numbers, but did miss that in my analysis. Thanks for the catch.
Posted by: LOM | April 29, 2008, 11:58 pm 11:58 pm
@ LOM: My apologies! I didn’t realize you knew.
As for Oprah, yes, it’s a giant case of buyer’s remorse. I suspect the same for many of his early supporters.
Posted by: Emily | April 29, 2008, 11:59 pm 11:59 pm
Tom
every delegate in every state is not considered equal there maybe just 115 in NC but that doesnt change it for Obama he is gone dont try to rationalize it :) and your polls are stupid btw
Posted by: staniam | April 29, 2008, 11:59 pm 11:59 pm
Idiot-
Did you say Sen. Obama smoked crack?
Posted by: ron | April 30, 2008, 12:00 am 12:00 am
More lies from the people who
perfected lying, the Clintons!
Hillary was Never an Underdog in
Pennsylvania!
In fact she had a 20 point lead at one
time and only won by 9 percent of the
vote!
Yeah she was real positive in PA,
especially in the debate when she allowed her lapdog, Stephanopoulus to
bring up the negative stuff about
Rev Wright and Bill Ayers!
Get Real!
Obama will win the nomination and Hillary and Bill can go home and play
Family Feud!
Posted by: reaganfan | April 30, 2008, 12:00 am 12:00 am
TOm
and anyway those are 4/24 polls I do beleive the date is now 4/30
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:01 am 12:01 am
stanium: Different organizations take different polls. Kate saw the same poll in Indiana that I saw…Obama will rap this up by winning NC, OR, MT, and SD. Clinton can take Indiana. It won’t change things. In fact, Obama can just win Oregon and North Caorlina, and still be ahead by over 100 delegates…your logic is failing once again.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 12:02 am 12:02 am
In the landmark civil fraud case against Bill Clinton in Los Angeles, where the former President is charged with defrauding a Hollywood dot com millionaire to help Hillary Clinton obtain more than $1.2 million from him for her 2000 Senate campaign, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Aurelio Munoz ruled on Friday, April 25 that Hillary Clinton would not be required to testify in a sworn deposition as a material witness in the case until AFTER the November election!
While Bill Clinton, Chelsea Clinton, Al Gore, Ed Rendell, Barbara Streisand, Cher, Stan Lee, Brad Pitt, Mike Wallace, Larry King et al may be called to testify and be deposed starting in May, Hillary alone has been protected from explaining her role in her husband’s fraud charges.
In an astonishing ruling by the Judge, Hillary Clinton may NOT be deposed about her role in the illegal solicitation and cover up of the largest contribution made to her Senate campaign until after the presidential election.
This is the same contribution Hillary denied knowing about or receiving when Lloyd Grove of the Washington Post asked her specifically about it and her relationship with the donor, Peter Paul, in August 2000.
Equally surprising as the ruling was the judge’s request to Hillary defense lawyer David Kendall to “say hello to his ( Judge Munoz”) friend Bill, also a partner in Kendall’s law firm
Posted by: extra extra | April 30, 2008, 12:02 am 12:02 am
Reaganfan
No nomination for Obama now I can pretty much guarantee it he might have to make a deal with Hill now though:)
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:04 am 12:04 am
no crack in the whitehouse… sorry obama.
Posted by: voter | April 30, 2008, 12:04 am 12:04 am
nope you are wrogn TOm get used to NO hope :) hes at best even with Clinton now that is a fact
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:05 am 12:05 am
tom — will being ahead by just 100 delegates clinch the nomination for Obama? Why don’t you explain for us how our logic works then?
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 12:06 am 12:06 am
stanium: Where’s your proof?
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 12:06 am 12:06 am
russell said,
“Rise Hillary Rise”.
What is she going to do ride on her
Broomstick?
Posted by: reaganfan | April 30, 2008, 12:07 am 12:07 am
Regarding oil prices, the Gore followers WANT the oil prices to stay high because they want all of us to stop driving our cars. Period. So releasing the reserves, or punishing the oil companies in an effort to get them to lower gas prices are not policies that will be followed by the green movement which actually will include all the candidates. As far as the republican swiftboat machine derailing Barack, he doesn’t need their help because he is doing a fine job all by himself by the company he choses to mingle with.
Posted by: Susan | April 30, 2008, 12:07 am 12:07 am
why should I need proof if you dont use any in your logic
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:11 am 12:11 am
I think that Governor Easley made the correct decision in endorsing Senator Clinton. As a citizen of NC I can say that Governor Easley has done a fine job during his eight years of service. I bet that MANY people in states that held earlier primaries wish they knew then what they know now…that Senator Obama is not quite ready to lead this great country. Early on I could have supported Obama if he indeed became the nominee. However, as the months have passed, that feeling has changed dramatically. I bet many who voted for him in the earlier campaigns, now are suffering from “buyer’s remorse”. Obama is showing that he is not quite ready to be a presidential candidate, and I REALLY blame the press and media for giving him too many free passes. All of these concerns should have been aired much earlier. While I read a few criticisms early on about Senator Obama, it seems most everyone was giddy with praise for him and not interested in thoroughly “vetting” him. Senator Clinton could be an excellent President right now, and with some time Senator Obama could possibly be as well, but he needs some more time to develop and to explain why he continued associations with people/organizations who espoused such disturbing positions.
Posted by: MA | April 30, 2008, 12:11 am 12:11 am
LOM: Being ahead by 100 delegates will clinch the nomiantion because if the superdelegates overturn the will of the voters in smoke-filled back rooms, not only will young voters, and new voters stay home, but a lot of Dems. will leave the party and all chaos will break loose. The Democratic leaders want to win in the fall, and I know that Gore and Pelosi are for Obama. They won’t allow Clinton to steal the nomination. All those record turnouts of Democrats will end up being distant memories.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 12:11 am 12:11 am
Coming from the right side looking for a breath of fresh air (and some honesty) from the left, I can’t tell you how disappointed I’ve been. Not only the lies Bill AND Hillary throw out there every day but also the lies from their supporters (news is bias towards Obama…come on!). The Dems like to say they’re so different from the GOP but you’re not. In fact, with all the back stabbing, lying, cheating and deceitfulness I’ve been seeing I think it’s sending this Independent vote back to the right.
Posted by: Sven | April 30, 2008, 12:13 am 12:13 am
MA
Well said! Easley is the modern Jim Hunt!
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:13 am 12:13 am
stanium: I used more than enough proof in my logic…your the one who has been making wild statements that don’t make sense to people who are grounded in reality. If you don’t have the proof, than don’t make up the lies.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 12:13 am 12:13 am
@ MA: Well said!
Posted by: Emily | April 30, 2008, 12:13 am 12:13 am
staniam:
I wouldn’t bet my house on that!
No Way she will get the nomination!
If she does the Democrat Party will be
destroyed and McCain wins the general
election!
This has become a no-lose situation for
McCain because she has weakened
Obama so much with her “kitchen sink”
campaign that McCain will win the
general against him!
When January 2008 rolls around you’ll have Hillary Clinton to blame for
the Inauguration Of President John McCain!
Posted by: reaganfan | April 30, 2008, 12:14 am 12:14 am
Reaganfan
I am of the 30 percent that will not vote for Obama under any circumstances and Mccain has more experience than Obama and is smarter than Bush so thats ok with me but Hillary will win get readyto lose your house
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:18 am 12:18 am
tom — do you really think that a margin of less than 3% in pledged delegates is turning over the “will of the people?” There are no back-room deals to be had, this is about electability, the number one priority for the Democratic elite. There is no stealing an election — that implies that it has belonged to someone.
The SDs can vote anyway they want where they can also use MI and FL votes as a measure of the will of the people.
Why don’t you do a little research on how well the youth vote gets out during an election cycle. Not looking so good for Obama…
That’s funny…YOU know that Gore and Pelosi are for Obama? You should let the Obama campaign know that because I couldn’t find that on his website. He can have Pelosi though–she is enjoying an approval rating lower than good old W right now. That’s not something I would brag about.
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 12:18 am 12:18 am
Tom
Lies are based more in someone elses campaign
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:19 am 12:19 am
stanium,
thank you. it seems there are some on this post who are are belligerent. do you find that to be the case? i prefer to have a civil conversation. is that possible here?
Posted by: MA | April 30, 2008, 12:20 am 12:20 am
Lom
Thats right Pelosi has sold this country down the river she will be percived as strong comapred to Obama
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:21 am 12:21 am
The Clintons threw Gore under the bus repeatedly…of course he is for Obama. Pelosi’s statements make me believe that she is for Obama….the youth vote will get out for Obama because he is a young candidate that they can connect to, not a 72 yr old. Do you really believe that all of the new registered Dems. and party swithchers are for Clinton? LOL! Good one!!
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 12:23 am 12:23 am
MA
Well I came on expecting to be civil but somehow I knew these peopel would use stuff like this to deflect the wright issue and btw if Hillary gets her populart vote in FL and the supers decide early for Clinton based on the wright thing that would be so sad for the obamabots wouldnt it ?
Posted by: Staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:24 am 12:24 am
staniam — I am with you. I initially said I would support Obama should he get the nomination (and even ‘scolded’ some folks here for saying they would vote for McCain). However, the more we get to ‘know’ him, it has become obvious that he is not ready to lead this country. I am willing to vote for McCain should Obama win the nomination because he will be a change from Bush and has the leadership to make those changes. I have survived the last 7 years…I can survive the next 4. People might say I’m selfish for making a statement like that; however, McCain has a track record for proving he can work across the aisle to bring about change. I’d take that any day over the rhetoric that Obama spews.
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 12:25 am 12:25 am
stanium: Kindly explain to me how Pelosi has sold the country down the river, without injecting your nonsensical personal Republican views.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 12:25 am 12:25 am
LOM: Mccain…change from Bush? Wow, your credibility is gone.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 12:26 am 12:26 am
Tom
Im not a repbulican Im part of the true democratic party that has overwhelmingly voted for Clinton and will decide things in the end
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:29 am 12:29 am
tom — you do know why they are called “baby boomers” don’t you?
Also, I would recommend a read on McGovern. I find a striking resemblance of his and Obama’s campaign strategies…
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 12:29 am 12:29 am
I met mccain in 2000 in Sc I looked into his eyes and could see his soul lol
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:30 am 12:30 am
tom — My credibility is gone? Wow. I’m going to take that as a compliment because that implies that I started with some. I hope you’re not upset that 30% of Clinton supporters will not vote Obama. The SDs are well aware of this statistics as well and spells T-R-O-U-B-L-E for Obama.
McCain is a change from Bush. Why do you think so many conservatives HATE him as the Republican candidate??? Even Ann Coulter thinks he is more “liberal” than Clinton!
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 12:33 am 12:33 am
@ tom,
As with your logic and presumption about superdelegates, you are inaccurate, again. Bill and Hillary Clinton didn’t throw Gore under the bus. His 2000 loss was as much because of republican maneuvering as anything Bill’s legacy could have caused. Furthermore, it is rare that a candidate of the same party wins the presidency after the two-term tenure of his predecessor.
Posted by: Emily | April 30, 2008, 12:33 am 12:33 am
MA — It all depends on whom you engage if you seek a civil discourse here. Best of luck!
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 12:34 am 12:34 am
LOM anad stantium,
I’m new to to discussion tonight, but reading the last few posts I’m with you all. This is all a mess, and I so want us to come out of it with a “direction”, and that is not one we have been in for the last 8 years!! We are in miserable state!! I had hoped one candidate would “[ut us above all of this”, but alsas that hasn’t happened. Therefore, Clinton seems to be the only one to help extract us (on a practical level) from all of this. She seems to understand our dilema, and has the fortitude to extract us from some of it. We are in a mess, and heavens knows we need to have some calm to get out of it. Obama is a smart and nice man, but he does not yet have the where with all to help us, McCain has shown us what he has, and that won’t get us anywhere…Clinton seems to have the guts to do the hard stuff to get us right!! And God knows we need to be getting it right!!!!!
Posted by: MA | April 30, 2008, 12:37 am 12:37 am
yea I never wouldve participated in live blogs if the so called ultra left bloggers hadnt pissed me off there needs to be some balance with true insight rather than people spoutign stuff that is trash talk like Obamicans do
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:38 am 12:38 am
stanium: You are not a Democrat, but keep telling yourself that. A real Democrat would not support the corporate, pro-war candidate. But keep telling yourself that you are a real Dem. Maybe you’ll be able to sleep better at night.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 12:38 am 12:38 am
@ Tom:
One more thing, some of those folks representing 30 percent of Hillary supporters LOM mentioned, are right here on this blog. If you actually think your charming, pithy little snipes will convert us, think again.
Posted by: Emily | April 30, 2008, 12:39 am 12:39 am
Just Words?! Clinton Says Actions Matter – They Do!
CLINTONS:
Paula Jones – LIE
MONICA – LIE,
BOSNIA – LIE,
COLUMBIA – LIE,
IRAQ VOTE – LIE,
NAFTA – LIE,
WRIGHT ONLY FRIEND OF OBAMA NOT CLINTON – LIE,
RUNNING FOR 2008 BUT NOT FOR 2012 – LIE
RACE CARD – LIE
RE-OPENING MI, FL VOTE – LIE
OBAMA AS VP – LIE
POPULAR VOTE – LIE
FERRARO – LIE
FARRAKHAN NOT FRIEND FOR ED RANDELL – LIE
$105 MILLION ASSET, 50% NOT FROM LOBBYISTS – LIE
ENDING IRAQ WAR – LIE
BILL, not intentionally “RACE CARD” topic every primary day to capture more WHITE VOTES – LIE
NOT FLIP-FLOPING ON OBAMA ELECTABILITY IN DEBATE vs RALLY – LIE
CLAIMING HER FAILED HEALTH INSURANCE UNIVERSAL – LIE
BILL “NOT” Bombing other countries 7 times day before Monica’s Court Appearance – LIE
HILLARY NOT USING 3AM Ad, “BIN LADEN” to use BUSH SCARE TACTICS – LIE
Last 20 YEARS its “BUSH+CLINTONS” like SADDAM HUSSAIN did to IRAQ REGIME. USA IS NOT REGIME – LIE
Do you really want to VOTE for 8 more years of these?
Posted by: kg | April 30, 2008, 12:40 am 12:40 am
yea I never wouldve participated in live blogs if the so called ultra left bloggers hadnt pissed me off there needs to be some balance with true insight rather than people spoutign stuff that is trash talk like Obamicans do
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:42 am 12:42 am
CLINTONS WANTS TO GIVE $6/MONTH GAS TAX RELIEF OUT OF $127/MONTH BIG OIL IS MAKING IN EXCESS FROM KEEPING HIGHER RATE.
LIARS, CHEATERS. SHE IS RIDICULOUS.
WHAT EXACTLY SHE DID TO WOMAN OTHER THAN TELLING LIES ON BOSNIA ETC?
Posted by: kg | April 30, 2008, 12:42 am 12:42 am
ABC NEWS IS SCUMBAGS WHO ARE VERY PARTIAL IN DEBATES. THEY MADE MILLIONS BY SHOWING FALSE IMAGE.
Posted by: kg | April 30, 2008, 12:43 am 12:43 am
TOm
Listen here Im just not a left wing fringe person that demands what they want and espect to get it yesterday that didnt work with the whole end the war thing now its going better we have other issues and the war funding was kept opff the books anyway for 5 yrs now so we’re all screwed when that comes out anyway
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:44 am 12:44 am
@ MA:
The direction you mentioned may come from people like you. People in NC have the power to stir the supers to action by voting for Hillary. Talk to people at the supermarket, bank, video store, or even “Wal-Mart!” Tell them what you posted earlier on this blog.
Posted by: Emily | April 30, 2008, 12:46 am 12:46 am
kg and others,
why do you SCREAM, when others don’t? can we not have a civil conversation?
Posted by: MA | April 30, 2008, 12:48 am 12:48 am
Emily
Im doing more than that Im working in asheville at the HQ doing calls all over NC I nswered an opinio Dynamics poll this afternoon that I saw tonight already that had clinton down 5 in NC
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:49 am 12:49 am
Ma
Why not? Because they are in Panic mode Camelot is being destoyed before their eyes it was all an illusion anyway
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:51 am 12:51 am
Anyone who thinks Obama is more electable should take a look at an electorial map
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Obama is losing to Mc Cain and Clinton is winning easily.
And its just going to get worse.
Did you guys know that NOBODY has ever won the white house when LOSING all the major primaries?
Never once in the history of the united states. Ever.
With Obama’s dubious past and liberal agenda, he aint going to be the exception.
My guess is that all you Obama lovers think somehow he will REGAIN his media shield and he can go back to being a GURU who will waive a magic wand for everyone.
LOL.
Posted by: tomdavie | April 30, 2008, 12:52 am 12:52 am
I want to be hopeful, but realistic about Clinton’s chances in North Carolina. I think the latest poll from SurveyUSA which puts her 5 percentage points behind Obama may be an outlier. We’ll need to see more polling in the coming days. I do think there has been a closing of the gap from 20 points to about 10 which helps since the delegates are apportioned by way of the popular vote. I’m not sure that an Elizabeth Edwards or John Edwards will be enough to put over the top, but it will definitely close that gap. I think there would be some potential issues for the Obama camp is she can come within 5 points.
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 12:54 am 12:54 am
Tomdavie
Its tough trying to create a utopia for themselves :)
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:54 am 12:54 am
Tomdavie: What exactly is Obama’s dubious past you speak of? That he opted to work in a poor Chicago neighborhood instead of cashing in on his Ivy-League degrees?
Posted by: Lorenzo | April 30, 2008, 12:55 am 12:55 am
LOM
yea I understand that it was 16 I think when Hillary was in asheville the other night but like that one that had her up 20 in pa was never right things can be all over the place
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:56 am 12:56 am
kg,
we and others of my “ilk” have been doing so in NC. it’s just so hard when the press has been so one-sided. as i have posted thus far, i haven’t been totally against obama, it’s just that clinton has had a much clearer and definite message. all of want to hope, but you know what?… when the going gets tough, the tough get going…and that’s exactly what Senator Clinton is doing. we don’t have time for former pastors (or husband’s past misdeeds!!) it is time for the US to just step up to the plate…and senator clinton is ready to do that!!!
Posted by: MA | April 30, 2008, 12:59 am 12:59 am
Lorenzo
I read the book and I think he went to the southside of Chi town when he didnt know what to do with his life after Columbia in NY he went there with 20 bucks yada yada but hes worth a heck of a lot more now and Wright has a million dollar home under construction and I swaw where The Obama peopel “tried to give PR advice to Wright” as recently as yesterday ?
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 12:59 am 12:59 am
@ LOM:
From what I gather, Edwards can galvanize a good many votes, but I’m just not certain which way his political wind is blowing… Methinks he wants Hillary, though.
Posted by: Emily | April 30, 2008, 1:01 am 1:01 am
The word “dubious” simply means “open to doubt or suspicion.” His platform of change, hope and judgment has been challenged by his performance in the Senate, questionable associations and his perceived elitist status. That qualifies as dubious as in “Obama’s dubious past may evaporate his ability to be Democratic nominee as serious electability problems have been exposed.”
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 1:01 am 1:01 am
MA
THey dont want to talk about Character but the Character makes the person and Hillary will do the right thing … she was courageous going to all those countries when she was first lady and thats the time that these people want to make fun of
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:03 am 1:03 am
Obama Zombies,
You people just never seem to get it. It’s over, we’re just waiting for the dust to settle. You can stop taking the coolaid. I guess even after World War II ended there were people that it took a long time to get the message to.
========================================
Obama, finally rejected Wright!
He’s still a bad bowler!
C’mon Obama, get up on the flat bed, chicken!
Posted by: WestCoastMessenger | April 30, 2008, 1:04 am 1:04 am
Emily — It makes the most sense for Edwards to be Hillary leaning. She is winning the support of those who supported his populist message. He pointed out on numerous occasions that he and Hillary’s health care plans were the only ones that could be considered truly universal. Obama has demonstrated that he is clearly out of touch with the working class of America–I’m just seeing how an Edwards endorsement goes his way.
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 1:04 am 1:04 am
Emily: I am not trying to convert anyone, especially you. A person who
doesn’t live in reality cannot be converted.
Stanium: I’m not a left wing fringe person…I’m a real Democrat, not some rural voter who is swayed by Hillary’s pro-war,
pro-corporation stance.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 1:05 am 1:05 am
someone tried to use sen Durbin in defending wright a while ago but Durbin is more of a machine man of chicago than Obama is
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:05 am 1:05 am
That should have been “I’m just NOT seeing how an Edwards endorsement goes his way.”
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 1:07 am 1:07 am
LOM: Edward’s supporters are going to Obama. How can you say the people who support his populist message are going for the pro-corporation candidate? Doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Posted by: Tom | April 30, 2008, 1:07 am 1:07 am
I heard someone say today that he will have to take on the lincoln-douglas debate challenge now!
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:07 am 1:07 am
edwards supporters are Tom but not edwards Elizabeth wears the pants in that family
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:08 am 1:08 am
The Clintons wouldn’t know what words like truth and honesty mean. They’ve been doing this for too long to remember. Not sure if they ever knew. They’re too dysfunctional from their lives and upbringing.
how do you even rationalize electing a president who had sex with an intern one-half his age, while he was POTUS IN THE OVAl OFFICe.
what kind of morals can ths guy have? And what kind of morals can the people who believe in the two of them have?
i don’t get it..
Posted by: pb | April 30, 2008, 1:08 am 1:08 am
stanium: Obama will not bow down to the demands of the candidate who is currently BEHIND.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 1:09 am 1:09 am
Lorenzo–
There are copious articles involving Obama’s relationships with a host of “dubious” Chicago characters, including: Ayers, Rezko, Blago, Daley, Stroger, et al.
Obama’s unsavory spiritual friends and mentors: Wright, Meeks, Bill Ayers, Frank Davis, et al.
Obama’s corporate and lobbyist connections/contributors: Exelon, Houston-based Mission Resources Corp., Tulsa-based Kaiser-Francis Oil Co., Mr. Hsu, Iraqi Billionaire of ill repute, Nadhmi Auchi, et al.
Posted by: Emily | April 30, 2008, 1:11 am 1:11 am
Tom
I have a photographic memory and it seems to me I remember that Obama killed a bill in the senate because he was lobbying for someone and I know he has ties to corporations the “Im out here by myself routine” is a campaign narrative he has his surrogates do stuff like Mark Penn got caught lobbying the Columbia deal… remeb er the samatha powers wingnut? she called Clinton a monster etc etc etc
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:12 am 1:12 am
tom — since when are the latte liberals and youth vote listening to a populist message?
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 1:12 am 1:12 am
Tom
The key word is currently and the party faithful cant stand for anything else to come out like this it will be like mgovern or Humphrey for that matter
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:14 am 1:14 am
i agree that ms. edwards probably has a greater support for sen. clinton because of her health position. i saw the clip on tv this afternoon where ms. edwards was clearly on sen. clinton’s side with respect to health insurance. ms. edwards also said while she was not endorsing any democratic candidate, she would be happy to speak out on any other specific topic that she was asked about. HOW ABOUT IT REPORTERS?? WHY NOT ASK THE WOMAN ABOUT HER THOUGHTS?? Yes, I meant to scream. Why have the mainstream media been doing such a lame job???
Posted by: MA | April 30, 2008, 1:14 am 1:14 am
Louis,
Hillary kicked Obama’s 5-1 millions of expenditures squarely in the buttocks. Own up to it, or get off the blog!
=======================================
Hillary stands up for all voters!
Obama is a bad bowler!
Posted by: WestCoastMessenger | April 30, 2008, 1:14 am 1:14 am
stanium: Mccain and Clinton have far more ties to lobbyists and corporations than Obama. That is a clear fact.
LOM: I actually take the term latte liberal as a complement, not an insult.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 1:16 am 1:16 am
Emily
thats what I thought the connections were like CLinton said its just a speech that he gives … In music my director tells me that you have to sing it like you wrote it thats what Obama does to these people and sooner or later it becomes obvious or rehearsed
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:17 am 1:17 am
Emily — To be fair, didn’t Mr. Hsu donate largely to the Clinton campaign? That “controversy” never had legs though and didn’t go anywhere (the ONE thing during this election cycle).
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 1:18 am 1:18 am
staniam: I used to hate math…however, now that is stands squarely in the way of Clinton’s nomination, its great. Do you realize that she needs to win 80% of the remaining delegates to win? Even the most sensible person relaizes that!
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 1:18 am 1:18 am
LOM– I agree. Edwards likes Hilary’s stance on the underprivileged and healthcare, and he knows she’ll continue that work throughout her presidency. A Clinton/Edwards ticket is exactly what we need.
As much as I hate to leave you and staniam to fight with tom alone, I must sleep. Goodnight.
Posted by: Emily | April 30, 2008, 1:19 am 1:19 am
MA
I try not to look at the media anymore or not as much as I used to gene robinson wrote a scathing peice about obama this morning and was foming at the mouth on chris’s show to praise him again and when Jay carney called him on it Matthews said well thats what we do 3 on 1 or something like that!
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:20 am 1:20 am
Tom
that is what the media is telling you there are other factors
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:21 am 1:21 am
I wasn’t insinuating insult whatsoever with the term “latte liberal.” I was implying that “latte liberals” are not the target audience for a populist message.
For all intents and purposes, I’m one of those “latte liberals.” I fire up my Jura Capresso F9 every morning to make a grande Americano for my commute to work.
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 1:22 am 1:22 am
Tom
Im glad you take Latte liberal as a compliment we here in NC dont lol goes back to the bitter comments
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:23 am 1:23 am
Emily — Goodnight. I’ll be soon following your lead.
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 1:24 am 1:24 am
Hillary would probably make a decent president but don’t insult your intelligence. She WANTS this and she and Bill feel they DESERVE it. They will say or do whatever they can to win and that includes tearing up any fellow Democrats who stand in their way. There’s no rule that a leader must be particularly NICE. Do you wonder why so many former Clinton associates are supporting the OTHER candidate?
Posted by: Pogo | April 30, 2008, 1:24 am 1:24 am
well Obama thinks he derseves it more which is a farce in and of itself your argument last week was well Clinton just wants to mess thigns up in 08 so she can run in 12 not saying that now that Obama is in trouble!
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:26 am 1:26 am
tom — it’s a good thing you hate math. do you hate rules as well? NEITHER candidate has enough delegates to clinch the nomination. BOTH candidates need the support of superdelegates to put them over the top. So, your position that she needs 80% of the vote would be true IFF there were no SDs in this primary contest. But guess what? There are and those are the rules. Nice try at spin though…it just so happens that you’re not very good at it.
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 1:26 am 1:26 am
LOM: Even though I do not agree with you, I can see where you are coming from with your views, and it was pretty interesting to hear them…even though I do not agree with them.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 1:27 am 1:27 am
staniam,
i used to be cable junkie, but i gave it up because my nerves couldn’t handle it…not i find this discourse different, but not necessarily easier. it’s much more swift, interactive, and yes, intimidating. but it does make network news alot like snail-mail!!! it can be all terribly informative IF people want to be challenged AND changed by the dialogue.
Posted by: MA | April 30, 2008, 1:28 am 1:28 am
Hillary and Barack both have fairly thin resumes to be running the world’s superpower. Both are fairly mainstream liberal Democrats. Both have personal qualities, though different ones, that could make them good leaders. Is there really all that much to argue about?
Posted by: Lorenzo | April 30, 2008, 1:29 am 1:29 am
yea they see the partial picturte of things but I dont wish anyone Ill even though I disagree with them but yea thats true neither candidate will get 2024 delegates before the convention and even then they only have to vote for their original candidate on the first ballot
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:30 am 1:30 am
It would be a very rare occasion that a Fortune 500 company would stick a kid right out of MBA school in the corner office to run the company. I’m not sure why this logic doesn’t seem to apply to Obama? He somehow thinks this is “owed” to him, despite his inexperience and out-of-touch stance he has with the majority of working class Americans. He definitely has the arrogance of most MBA folks I know!
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 1:32 am 1:32 am
The situation that the Dems find themselves in really does sadden me…I can still remember when we actually had an overwhlming chance of winning the White House.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 1:33 am 1:33 am
MA
Yea realclearpoltics is what I always look at first and then if I want to go back and watch a cable news thing I can at night when Im working but the media is suppoed to challenge the goverment and candidates more and they dont they do it daily according to who is advertising on their shows
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:33 am 1:33 am
LOM: Your comments are completley out of control. You do know that bashing Obama on this blog will not sway any voters?
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 1:35 am 1:35 am
LOM,
you are right on target!! why hasn’t a major media type group picked up this train of thought? he’s a light weight, and given our troubles around the globe, why would we want to have such a person in the postion of president of the usa?? this is a big and great country. why would we want someone who is untested?
Posted by: MA | April 30, 2008, 1:37 am 1:37 am
LOM
Can anyone say President GW Bush thats what ticks me off the most is that hes got the exact same manerisms and temprament
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:37 am 1:37 am
Tom
Neither will you bashing Clinton sway us!
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:38 am 1:38 am
stanium: How dare you compare Obama to Bush? Not even close. I am sick and tired fo the lies that are being spewed out of your mouth. Your mother should wash your mouth out with soap.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 1:39 am 1:39 am
just saying hes got the same messianic complex that is evident in his manerisms
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:40 am 1:40 am
Tom
Takes one to know one didnt thinkId have to bring that one out tonight ;)
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:42 am 1:42 am
I’m not out of control, tom. I’m not even bashing Obama. I’m drawing a comparison to the real world and this political race. Where is this “bashing” that you speak of? I’m not here to sway any voters because quite frankly, no one (on either side) is willing to be swayed. If that is what you want, then why don’t you outline the steps that need to happen for you to be convinced that Clinton would be the better candidate?
I do think Obama is arrogant based on his comments, his actions (or lack thereof) and his audacity to believe that he can be POTUS with such a thin resume. I would love nothing more for him to convince me otherwise. He runs away from the press, he has a credibility issue and he truly seems out of touch with the working class of America.
Just the other day he didn’t think saving $30 was a big deal (in reference to a gas tax relief for the summer). At a federal minimum wage of $5.85, it would take about 5 hours of work to make that much money. It takes Obama 0.39 hours to make that much money. $30 is a lot of money to a lot of Americans and I feel that he has shown a insensitivity to this. That is one of the major reason he is now out stumping a more populist message.
I am here at least attempting to draw contrasts and comparisons as well as provide some facts. That is more than most folks probably think about your posts.
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 1:45 am 1:45 am
stanian,
ok, i was going to bed, but i had to agree with you. gees, what would it be like to find dozens of people you wanted to converse with nightly?? it may very well be overload. i will work for sen. clinton, and i sincerely hope she wins the nonination and the presidency!!
Posted by: MA | April 30, 2008, 1:45 am 1:45 am
LOM: Clinton wants to put a band-aid on the gas issue. You do realize that the has tax goes to pay for construction workers, and infrastructure repair. Without it, lives could be at risk.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 1:47 am 1:47 am
Stanium & LOM: I’m done….I don’t agree with either of you but it was nice chatting….
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 1:49 am 1:49 am
LOM
Ofcourse he thinks the gas tax holliday is silly cause he never has to drive himself anywhere :)
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:49 am 1:49 am
tom — Really? Do you research ANYTHING?
“Enact a Windfall Profits Tax on Oil Companies to Pay for Temporarily Suspending the Gas Tax – Hillary will impose a windfall profits tax on oil companies and use the money to temporarily suspend the 18.4 cent per gallon federal gas tax and the 24.4 cent per gallon diesel tax during the upcoming peak summer driving months. Hillary will ensure that this relief is passed along to consumers by charging the Federal Trade Commission with conducting aggressive oversight. Unlike Senator McCain’s plan, Hillary’s plan will be fully paid for by taking away oil company profits through a windfall profits tax. This will ensure that the Highway Trust Fund is not affected at all by the gas tax suspension, and can continue to support critical repairs and maintenance for our infrastructure and highways. Suspending the gas tax will provide real, immediate assistance to American families and for our economy. Recent testimony before the House of Representatives by the American Trucking Association indicates that even small changes in price can have big impacts. Just a one-penny decrease in the price of diesel annualized over an entire year would save the trucking industry $391 million a year.”
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 1:50 am 1:50 am
Last point STANIUM: That was a low blow and you know it!
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 1:51 am 1:51 am
MA
Thats good that you want to help her win honestly I thought the peopel at the HQ I went to were too nonchalant .. and the event the other night they told us to go out and collect the sign up sheets for the event and I got about half of the 2500 that filled one out I almost missed the speech itself :)
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:52 am 1:52 am
tom — what specifically do you not agree with?
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 1:53 am 1:53 am
Tom
I dont think he drove himself when he was back in IL this whole thing about sittign back and coming up with a solution Hillary already has a list and Obama wants to be like W and be president in name only
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:55 am 1:55 am
MA and staniam — I’m off to bed. Have a nice evening. Perhaps we’ll cross paths here again soon.
Go Hillary!
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 1:55 am 1:55 am
LOM: Your views are illogical….you paint Clinton as an angel….you think Obama is the devil…do you really want another Bush term? Please get a reality check.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 1:55 am 1:55 am
stanium: Please see some common sense…I’m begging you. Your irational views make me want to SCREAM. Are you voting for Mccain if CLinton isn’t the nominee?
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 1:57 am 1:57 am
LOM
Have a good night
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 1:57 am 1:57 am
stanium: I agree to disagree with you…good night!
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 2:01 am 2:01 am
After reading along here, it is apparent there are plenty of voters still confused by our electoral system for the GE. At this point, with the primary season closing in a deadheat, the most important factor is electability – who is more likely to beat McCain. We can supposed all day long but the SD’s will be looking at some actual data and analysis. To help some of you who are confused, I put together some numbers.
Regardless of what any candidate says, we are a red/blue/purple country. For the dems, the upcoming GE will be determined by wins in swing states and blue state strongholds. The winner of the GE needs 270 electoral votes. Here is how that breaks down in electoral votes across the country:
Red states=183
Blue states=168
Swing states=187
Some republicans think this is why the dems will lose. McCain is the only one who took the race seriously because he knows how easily it can be lost in the swing states. Some people seem to think that we add up the electoral votes for states won by candidates but we cant do that since the dems will not win all states. But to appease that logic, here are the numbers:
Electoral power without regards to red/blue/swing state voting history -
Clinton wins=284 (surpassed 270)
Obama wins=202 (not enough left to get 270 ie. Remaining contests: 52)
Obviously the above logic does not work since there is no way the dems can win most of the red states included above. The next set of analysts try to say they can legitimately compare the wins with blue and swing states per candidate. While this is true for the voter preferences from dem voters, it is not accurate for the GE. Here is how that argument pans out:
Clinton blue or swing wins=222
Obama blue or swing wins=133
Dont get all excited McCain fans! The above logic might be closer to reality but it is far from representive in terms of electability. The solid blue states are expected to support either candidates and many of the states were close races and either candidate is likely to carry those states. Here is how the real electability analysis shapes up based on the voting results:
Awarding Blue states to both plus swing states won -
Clinton=288 (surpassed 270 needed to win)
Obama=235 (not enough left to get 270 ie. Remaining contests: 52)
Now to bring us up to date, the pollsters have been running daily and weekly polls in particular states to get a snapshot prediction for the GE. I think it is still too early to predict but here are the states where head to head polling is being tracked:
WI, IA, MA, IN, MN, NV, AZ, CO, NY, CA, WA, AL, KS, NM, MO, OH, OR, VA, KY, PA, FL, NC, TN, ME, NJ, VA, CT
Current electoral map results based on polling alone -
Clinton vs McCain = 269
Obama vs McCain = 199
The pollsters failed to include MI which is a big mistake. MI has a significant number of electors and is a swing state that McCain lost heavily in and Clinton won with a strong margin. That would put her at 286 electoral votes and Obama at 216 electoral votes.
Bottom line in all of this is:
Things are still unpredictable and the GE will be a tough race no matter who the nominees are. But when we look at who is most likely to beat McCain in the GE, no matter how you spin the emotions and political aspects of the election, the numbers dont like – Clinton is clearly indicated as the most electable. The SD’s are paying attention and so are the Republicans. Be wary of the tricks they have begun – party power players are starting to appear in various interviews and coyly dogging the dem party and its nomination race along with its candidates. The RNC knows how to run and win elections – dont take them for granted!
Posted by: DCVoter | April 30, 2008, 2:01 am 2:01 am
tom — now your just putting words in my mouth. what specifically is illogical?
I don’t think Clinton is an angel. She is not perfect. Nobody is. Obama isn’t terrible either. I just don’t think he is ready at this juncture to lead our nation. I suppose no one really is, but I do believe that some folks are better prepared and qualified to do the job. In this case, I happen to believe that person to be Hillary Clinton. And I also believe that John McCain could do a better job than Obama.
I don’t consider myself a democrat. Heck, I don’t even think global warming as described by Al Gore is wholly legitimate when there is evidence to suggest the warming on Mars has a similar trend as Earth. I lean more to the right on fiscal issues and to the left on social issues. I’m happy with a moderate candidate, which McCain is compared to many of the wacko right wingers out there. He will not be a third term of Bush, but if you truly believe that, then don’t vote for him or make his presidency even possible, which is what a vote for Obama is.
That’s my opinion, as you have pointed out. It’s not illogical, just different from yours.
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 2:02 am 2:02 am
LOM: Are you anti-war? Aren’t you worried about Mccain’s age. If he gets elected he would be 77 at the end of his term.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 2:05 am 2:05 am
tom — seriously, take a chill pill. you sound desperate to convince us all that we are illogical and cannot form a sound opinion on our own. what gives? if you follow your posts, you are just getting meaner and meaner the more people don’t see things your way. good luck with that approach.
good night.
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 2:06 am 2:06 am
LOM: Not mean..just defending my views when attacked by others…good night.
Posted by: tom | April 30, 2008, 2:09 am 2:09 am
tom — oh yes, I love war! Where has John McCain said he loves war? Please cite what you are implying. Are you going to quote him out of context and say he is willing to stay in Iraq for 100 years? Just a heads up, he didn’t imply that we would stay there 100 years because he “likes” war.
By the way, age discrimination is illegal. Check out the EEOC for more info on that one. What does age have to do with anything? That’s what you’re basing your opinion of whether or not he can lead this country? If that is your litmus test, then by all means, you should be casting your vote for Obama as he is the youngest.
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 2:10 am 2:10 am
tom — you can defend your views by basing them on FACTS and DATA.
Posted by: LOM | April 30, 2008, 2:12 am 2:12 am
DC voter
just go to this site. It tells you who wins the general election and is updated weekly.
Obama hasnt defeated Mc Cain in a general election matchup for weeks .
Clinton has pulled ahead of Mc Cain in the last 2 weeks.
Posted by: tomdavie | April 30, 2008, 2:59 am 2:59 am
dcvoter,
That was awesome, thank you. It is easy to believe it and say it, but you have it solid.
Alot is said this election about voters in this election, but isn’t it just possible that the people going for Hillary (ie. old, uneducated, racist, stupid, blah, blah, blah, me) know, from experience, that the only electable candidate is Hillary. The more they try to parse out the voters, the more I believe it.
Just lately I LOVE checking all the polls.
Posted by: drae | April 30, 2008, 3:59 am 3:59 am
Bill is lying once again. What can one expect from the Clintons. Lying under oath…Bill it is time for you to go and have a rest. You look nasty and envious of Obama and are a bad loser. Just go. You already sent this country to hell, you destroyed our good name in the world and it is your fault that we lost the elections…you have embarrassed us and abused us. It is time for you to go
Posted by: voter | April 30, 2008, 4:17 am 4:17 am
am a 70 year old white woman and I am really amazed at the nonentity of certian persons who keep hitting someone for someone else’s mistakes. Obama is the candidate and let’s talk about him. This is all utter distractions from fools who have nothing to offer but negative ads and stupid criticisms. This is a political election and not a church or spiritual election. Hillary and Bill have nothing to offer to this dynamic generation and so they are all out to destroy, divide and run. We talk of peace and she is on obliterating a nation! That’s evil on her part! I will not be surprised to see and hear about terror attacks on us sooner or later because of her threat over a nation! SHAME ON HER AND HER SUPPORTERS. MY SUPPORT GOES TO OBAMA FROM NOW ONWARDS. She is scary using fear to manipulate and mislead voters and you called that wisdom or being a fighter? I called it weakness, divisive, evil, witchcraft and above all a looser tactic! She has no message that is positive. What I see is that even though she lied a thousand times, her stupid and idiotic supporters call it truth. She is misrepresenting Americans in the world as a symbol of liars. If she becomes president, terrorists will wreck this nation and we will have enemies all over. DO NOT BE STUPID BY HER SILLY AND DIRTY GAMES! REAL AMERICANS ARE NOT STUPID AND IDIOTS AS DO HER SUPPORTERS!
Posted by: gal | April 30, 2008, 4:49 am 4:49 am
Tom – Clinton won the new dems and party switchers in PA.
Posted by: tony | April 30, 2008, 6:25 am 6:25 am
If this is the truth then I think we had all figure out somewhere else to live. What a liar – and you want to put his wife in the WH?
Posted by: jozy | April 30, 2008, 8:35 am 8:35 am
Who cares what Bill says? We all know – and I mean all of us; even Clinton supporters – that Bill will say anything he finds expedient.
And he’ll say it even when we all know it isn’t true. Hillary positive in Pennsylvania? Riiiiighhhhhtttt. That’s why the NYT, a paper that previously had endorsed her, basically unendorsed her after Pennsylvania.
Posted by: Paul | April 30, 2008, 8:44 am 8:44 am
look you people piling on the Clintons while they are not piling on Obama about wright at this time cdease and desist the Clintons are honorable even though they have their flaws we dont know about most of Obamas flaws because of the mafia based Chi town that Obama is from Wright I think wants to expose it but then that would mean bringing down an entire counterculture that is scurilous but maybe he thinks its worth it!
Posted by: staniam | April 30, 2008, 9:00 am 9:00 am
I didn’t know she was the underdog in PA? Was she clean? Nope, who encourage her to be negative? Bill Clinton. Did you see the new ad in IN? She is now a Chicago girl; wasn’t she a Scranton gal?
A Wellesley College and Yale Law School grad raking in money from special interest groups here and abroad through husband’s exploitation and pre-selling of the White House; isn’t she an elitist? What about Bobby Seale and the Black Panthers? How about her Marxist backgound clerking for the head of the American Communist Party? But she dares to fuel the Wright and Ayers non-controversy? How many more pinocchios for Bill??
Posted by: Ernie | April 30, 2008, 9:35 am 9:35 am
If you are going to list all the ways Hillary was negative, can you please list Obama too, his attack on Hillary’s health care plan in PA, again, which how many people need to say is a lie over and over again. Calling Hillary’s character into question, over and over and over and over again. Feeing the Bosnia story to the media, again, with not being able to put flowers on the Tomb of the Unknown soldier, Obama’s final closing statements during his Pennsylvania tour, COME ON people, just come on! If you hate negativity, I get it, I really do. But please, to say some negativity to respond to other negativity is okay, is a LOSING ARGUMENT, period.
Posted by: gerald | April 30, 2008, 9:36 am 9:36 am
He is joking, right?
Posted by: indy_voter | April 30, 2008, 9:50 am 9:50 am
Based on her experience, judgement, associations, and management skills, it is my humble opinion that Senator Clinton will do NOTHING to inspire the American people to be better, work harder, or partner to bring about the change that this country needs. Her campaign has made a mockery of honesty, integrity, unity, empathy – you name it. What we’re left with is negativity, divisivness, scandal, corruption, the worst kind of unethical behavior. It is amazing to me that women consider her a feminist standart – she enabled and condoned President Clinton’s abusive sexual behavior and when faced with the fact that they couldn’t lie it away, chose to attack those women who objected to his predatory behavior. If she were a man, I’d have the same objections. To me, this world cannot afford another agressive, negative leader in the White House – you think Iraq is bad now, think about how she plans to deal with the Iran situation. Those of you who have not done so, need to spend some time researching the Clintons all the way back to Arkansas – there is a pattern to their behavior. Regarding the Bosnia lie stuff – think about the implication of putting your only child in that situation – what kind of family values are those? One more thing – part of the Clinton White House legacy can be found ON DISPLAY at the Smithonian Institute in DC – it’s blue and it’s stained.
Posted by: Rob | April 30, 2008, 11:41 am 11:41 am
I wonder how long Hillary’s and Bill’s noses will grow? Pinocchio’s was short by comparison.
Posted by: judy | April 30, 2008, 11:58 am 11:58 am
What does the “greatest football upset ever” have to do with the Clintons stealing the nomination through a backroom deal? What a lame analogy. Bill, you have lost your touch.
Posted by: Kate McPhee | April 30, 2008, 12:45 pm 12:45 pm
staniam, Seriously, How can you call a man honorable who cheated on his wife for 20 or so years, used the White House to cheat, lied under oath, and was impeached. How do you ever trust a man like this and how do you trust a wife who stays with a man like than purely to benefit her political career. I guess your definition of honorable is different from mine.
Posted by: indy_voter | April 30, 2008, 1:10 pm 1:10 pm
Rob, I will say this….Hillary does inspire me….She inspires me to support whomever her opponent is since I find nothing admirable about dishonesty.
Posted by: indy_voter | April 30, 2008, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm
Salome, I completely agree with you…That is what happens when you have a candidate (Hillary) who will do anything or say anything to win. But of course, they (Hillary and her supporters) cannot see how damaging this is to the Democratic party. That is why until the Democrats rid themselves of the Clintons once and for all I will stay an Independent.
Posted by: indy_voter | April 30, 2008, 2:09 pm 2:09 pm
Why of course Bill would say such things, we would be very disappointed if he did not try to spin things her way. Thats his job.
But, he also said that the Obama camp played the race card on him first. And he also told us he did not have sexual realations with that women too. Hey, when you have that kind of crediabilty, it must be true.
Posted by: Unspun | April 30, 2008, 11:25 pm 11:25 pm
staniam:
Even as we speak the super delegates
are still breaking for Obama!
Sooner or later Clinton will see
the handwriting on the wall and drop
out!
Posted by: reaganfan | May 1, 2008, 12:32 am 12:32 am
what parallel universe has this man been in for the last seven weeks?
Posted by: ann | May 1, 2008, 5:57 pm 5:57 pm