By Jaketapper

Apr 23, 2008 12:03pm

Clinton Camp Misrepresents ABC News Report

In today’s edition of "The Note," ABC News’ Rick Klein wrote that "By one (rightly disputed) metric — the popular vote, including Florida and Michigan — Clinton has pulled ahead of Obama. But without the rogue states, Obama is still up by 500,000 — and if you can find another objective measurement by which she’s in the lead, let us know."

Including the popular votes from Florida and Michigan — which were not sanctioned Democratic National Committee primaries, where the candidates did not compete, where Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois was not even on the ballot in Michigan — is a sketchy notion, and Rick was conveying that with the proper air of skepticism.

Somehow, the Clinton campaign took his report and twisted it into this: "ABC News reported this morning that ‘Clinton has pulled ahead of Obama’ in the popular vote."

That is a false reflection of what ABC News reported.

- jpt

UPDATE: The Clinton campaign pushed back on this post, arguing that last night Klein live-blogged at 10:26 pm ET: "A potential watershed moment: With Pennsylvania results, Clinton just overtook Obama in the overall popular vote — if you include Florida and Michigan. That is a very big if, particularly when it comes to Michigan, but this is a major moment in the argument Clinton is making to the superdelegates. And if there were any question about whether Clinton will hang on to the end, that should answer it. It is now, with 67% of PA precincts reporting, Clinton: 14,547,729; Obama: 14,516,766."

This was not what the Clinton campaign was quoting in its "HillaryHub."

Nor was it "reported this morning."

So nothing I wrote this morning was wrong — and the Clinton campaign was indeed misrepresenting what Klein wrote this morning.

Moreover, in his post last night Klein was very clearly saying this popular vote argument held ONLY "if you include Florida and Michigan" which he noted was "a very big if, particularly when it comes to Michigan," where Obama was not even on the ballot.

The Clinton campaign points out that the ABC News Politics Page’s listing of the popular vote tally includes Michigan and Florida, and shows Clinton in the lead. That will be changed, likely this week, to show two different popular vote tallies — one counting the rogue states, one without.

I took this blog post down for a brief time this morning while I was on a train and couldn’t fully look into all the arguments the Clinton campaign was making. Minus this update, the above post is the same as it was before.

User Comments

She will spin you, and spin you. Superdelegates – beware.

Posted by: Jennifer | April 23, 2008, 12:08 pm 12:08 pm

Nobody talks about the momentum that Hillary Clinton lost by not being able to count Florida or Michigan as victories, nor does anybody talk how the Obama camp overplayed, and still overplays, their caucus wins in which 88% fewer voters determined each delegate.
Nor does anybody talk about how Obama has between around 51% of the total vote yet has around 56 to 57% of the delegate count. Why is that fair?

Posted by: Alessandro Machi | April 23, 2008, 12:08 pm 12:08 pm

I agree that the shart on ABCnews.com needs changed. You can’t count votes that are not allowed to counted. I know there is a little asterick but it is misleading. She is not ahead.

Posted by: marie | April 23, 2008, 12:10 pm 12:10 pm

Lets see, every state Obama has campigned in he has reduced the lead of Hillary. So we should use results in Fl where he did not campign? Does this even sound fair? I guess we should just give the quenn, Hillary, the results from every poll taken that favors Hill-rod. insame

Posted by: Gail | April 23, 2008, 12:16 pm 12:16 pm

Well the shame of it is that regardless of the popular vote, which Obama still holds, she cannot win enough elected delegates now. She would have to win 80% of the remaining states and it won’t happen.
They need to get off the faulty elections held in FL and MI. They don’t count to the public nor to the supers.
She did not win by enough of a margin to count and she can’t make it up in NC or IN.
Go ahead though and send her more money LOL

Posted by: Brian | April 23, 2008, 12:17 pm 12:17 pm

The math won’t work for Hillary any other way. However, it’s not a valid argument. Clinton needed a knock out, Obama turned it into a wrestling match. Will May 6th be the three count? Stay tuned kiddies.

Posted by: mims NJ | April 23, 2008, 12:18 pm 12:18 pm

Oxy, then why did he not pull his name off the ballot in Pa where she was ahead by 20. Your arguement makes no sense. She is one sneaky lady. She is a Clinton. What do you expect.

Posted by: marie | April 23, 2008, 12:18 pm 12:18 pm

Took his name off the ballot because she was up 20? LOL Then how did she not even win 20 percent? LOL What a pin head.

Posted by: Brian | April 23, 2008, 12:18 pm 12:18 pm

It won’t matter, she will STILL not get the nomination. Sure, give the nomination to the person that has run the wrost campaign of all – to date that is – of all campaigns ever run. Give the nomination to the person that is lacking across the board.
I’m sorry Clinton supporters but she will not win the nomination. Any votes casted for her are a waste. All you all are doing is prolonging the inevitable.
Regardless, that popular vote crap won’t work. This will be no different than any other contest. She wins, at least on the number, but he gets more Supers! Out with the old in with the new. Eat it Clinton people.

Posted by: RNJ | April 23, 2008, 12:19 pm 12:19 pm

Jake
If you look at the home for Politics on this website. It shows Hillary with more Popular votes. And why call them rogue states. Are they not part of the USofA. That will be needed to win in November for the democrats.

Posted by: toby | April 23, 2008, 12:19 pm 12:19 pm

The DNC stripped MI and FL of their delegates. However, the results of the election have been certified by the Secretary of State and have vote totals for each candidate (where applicable). When you speak of the popular vote, the certified results of these states can be included. This in no way implies that their “voices” will be heard at the convention in the form of seated delegates.

Posted by: LOM | April 23, 2008, 12:26 pm 12:26 pm

Sen. Clinton is a great public servant as a Senator. She has run a bad campaign and taken herself from inevitable to underdog and mathematically unlikely underdog. You can’t count Michigan or Florida PERIOD. If Sen. Obama were in the same position they would have run him out and mercilessly mocked him for even attempting to bring in Michigan & Florida. It’s ridiculous. Half of the Clinton supporters are passionate about her as the first women potential president, which is awesome.
I get a real sense though that the other half don’t like Obama for one main reason. Now that reason will be explained away by questions of experience, or his health care plan or the BS about his “Radical Associations” with Rev. Wright or Ayers, or he is out of touch with his bitter comments.
That is not the real reason and people have to take a deep look inside.
If you were going to hire someone to run your organization from the ground up. Who would you really choose. By all measurable standards the choice should be obvious.
Obama 08

Posted by: Buddhabman | April 23, 2008, 12:27 pm 12:27 pm

Oxycon
Obama was down 20 in almost all of the states before they got to meet him…he turned the majority of those into wins (against a 15 year old single brand that the dems had and it’s well built and entrenched political machine…the clintons…even though only one is running…but most people don’t get that lol)
Obama did not take his name off of states because of anything besides trying to support the party.
Clinton only supports the party when it suits her.

Posted by: dl | April 23, 2008, 12:28 pm 12:28 pm

Jake, in fact Obama was the only one of the candidates in Florida that aired TV commercials for 2-3 weeks. It is not correct for you to say that nobody campaigned in Florida, Obama did. As for Michigan, Obama and Edwards decided to take their names off the ballot, and Obama surrogates suggested that people vote for “uncommitted”. Florida and Michigan votes should count, all votes in the primaries should count.

Posted by: svsolis | April 23, 2008, 12:29 pm 12:29 pm

Since there is no popular vote for caucus states, this is a mute point.
Obama ’08

Posted by: Nobodys fool | April 23, 2008, 12:30 pm 12:30 pm

Since there is no popular vote for caucus states, this is a mute point.
Obama ’08

Posted by: Nobodys fool | April 23, 2008, 12:31 pm 12:31 pm

do you all realize that all of your arguments against Obama have nothing to do with his ability to lead on these issues… (oh besides racism and unpatriotic stuff…haha)
while we as Obama elitists lol are either defending all these statements that are subjective at best…or saying look at what our caniddate will do to the country and the world…look at what he has already done…and look at what your candidate has done…
Bill Clinton said it best… you have a choice…hope or fear. Choose hope. God knows look where fear got ya last time.

Posted by: dl | April 23, 2008, 12:33 pm 12:33 pm

Last fall, Hillary argued against Michigan and Florida votes, now she wants to count them.
Hillary the Hypocrite for president.

Posted by: Dan | April 23, 2008, 12:34 pm 12:34 pm

I thought only the delegates were stripped from Florida and Michigan, not the popular vote. If the popular is not counted either, then what was the point in voting at all?

Posted by: Robin | April 23, 2008, 12:35 pm 12:35 pm

dl: Do tell, what exactly has Obama already done?

Posted by: svsolis | April 23, 2008, 12:37 pm 12:37 pm

Oh – even if they did ‘misrepresent’ the ABC report … who cares? Fair play given how often the MSM misrepresents everything else spoken by anyone else. Don’t hold people to standards you can’t live by – it just reeks of hypocrisy.

Posted by: Lex | April 23, 2008, 12:37 pm 12:37 pm

So Clinton lies and misrepresented herself and her wins…and that surprises you exactly how?
She has been doing this the entire campaign and now that she has done it to ABC News you act chagrined….
And then in true Clinton fashion when confronted with the truth, she tells you that she isn’t lying you are…just like Bill with the radio interview.
Again, what about this do you find surprising?

Posted by: disgusted | April 23, 2008, 12:37 pm 12:37 pm

Question for Obama supporters.
How many state did Obama win which are historically Democratic states in the GE?
How many swing states did Obama win that will decide the final outcome of the GE?
Does winning the states that will surely go to the Republican party in the GE mean anything?

Posted by: True Democrat not a cultist. | April 23, 2008, 12:37 pm 12:37 pm

When Hillary was interviewed this morning she said she has raised 3 Million in 24 hours. But on CNN News they have reported 2.5 Million
Her lies are continuing! Who can trust this woman????

Posted by: Peace | April 23, 2008, 12:38 pm 12:38 pm

LOOK IT’S LIKE THIS,TO USE SPORTS AS AN EXAMPLE.IT’S LIKE OBAMA HAS A TWO GAME LEAD WITH ONE GAME REMAINING.HILLARY BEATS OBAMA BY 10 PTS.WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE.BUT NOW HILLARY’S BACKERS ARE SAYING BUT WE WON BOTH PRESEASON GAMES.SO THEY SHOULD COUNT.

Posted by: morris evans | April 23, 2008, 12:38 pm 12:38 pm

Wow…This woman would spin anything. She cannot over come Obama’s pledged delegate lead He has more popular votes, more states won, and more delegates. So, what is her argument to the superdelegates? Steal the nomination away from the guy who played by the rules and give it to the lying, bigot washington establishment candidate…yeah, i don’t think so Hillary. Nice try!

Posted by: Tom | April 23, 2008, 12:38 pm 12:38 pm

You can always expect Hillary and BJ Clinton to lie it’s what they do best.
Just look at:
1) Bosnia sniper fire
2) “I did not have sexual relations with that woman”

Posted by: Doug | April 23, 2008, 12:41 pm 12:41 pm

Hillary Clinton is running to the right of Obama as a crypto-republican. The people to whom she appeals will find John McCain even more appealing, and the Obama supporters she is alienating in the primaries will stay home in November in large numbers if she is the nominee.
Her plan B is for the Dems to lose the general to McCain so she can run in ’12.
Democrats – ask yourselves: Are you really comfortable with a Democrat who runs as a Republican and is so willing to gamble with the gneral in 08 to further her own chances in ’12?

Posted by: pDavid | April 23, 2008, 12:42 pm 12:42 pm

Go Away, Hillary! Please…Go away!
Hillary, if u go away, i swear i’ll pay off your campaign debt. How about it?

Posted by: Kelsey W | April 23, 2008, 12:42 pm 12:42 pm

Michigan and Florida votes count ,it is delegates who are not counted.BO had the option to stay on the ballot but withdrew and then campaigned for people to vote uncommitted.You need to end your pathologic Obama bias in your blog.

Posted by: victor | April 23, 2008, 12:42 pm 12:42 pm

The Clinton camp is lying, AGAIN. Is anyone surprised?

Posted by: Kathleen | April 23, 2008, 12:42 pm 12:42 pm

BJ Clinton and his wife are worth over $100 million. Why are they begging blue collar working class voters to donate $5 to their campaign?
These people don’t have jobs and are losing their homes.
Don’t the Clintons have any shame?

Posted by: Doug | April 23, 2008, 12:43 pm 12:43 pm

This is exactly why many of us, including myself, were upset with the posting last night.
Mr. Klein, to his credit, clarified later (even stating it was the Clinton position). However, it looks like reality does not exist within their campaign.

Posted by: Jason | April 23, 2008, 12:44 pm 12:44 pm

Leonard…wins in big states by margins this small…don’t matter in the general…
hILLARY IS TRYING TO TEAR DOWN THE OTHER CANDIDATE TO SAY…”HE CAN’T WIN NOW LOOK.”
THAT is her whole argument. Hillary is 60 and wants to be President and if she can’t have it this time…she will make him unelectable and thinks she will run again in 2012.
Guess what. If we lose this time. The Clintons will be hated by 75% of the population now.
Hillary with all of her baggage that they are just saving up to lay out (remember there hasn’t been a single story or question on ANY of the Clinton scandals…and there are lists…you think that makes any sense… vetted or not…her fines…the investigations …the crooked relationships… none of them have been brought up)…and why would that be?
The press has not asked those questions…they hold Obama now to a much higher standard of questions than Hillary when America doesn’t know the details of any of those scandals outside of Monica and the word “whitewater” 90% of America doesn’t even know what that is.
Wins in big states only matter with huge margins…wins in any state only mean something with big margins…Hillary doesn’t have too many of those…Barack does.
She puts herself first the nation and the party second…that is the number one issue we do not want to have in a President.

Posted by: dl | April 23, 2008, 12:45 pm 12:45 pm

What really happened with Vince Foster?
Why did he die?
Who killed him?

Posted by: Doug | April 23, 2008, 12:47 pm 12:47 pm

Rules don’t say give it to the one w/the most votes, they say give it to the one who reaches 2025. HRC has just as much reason to drop out as Obama does – neither of them makes it to 2025 w/o superD help. SuperDs will need to decide – and given the close margins, it’s ‘stealing’ either way. [Obama can say he won more states/more delegates, Hillary can say she won popular vote and the battleground states]. Make the superD’s vote w/their states, and the numbers change yet again, with Obama losing more than HRC does.
People would be better off spending their time lobbying DNC for changes to the nomination process than making sense out of this cr*p. There should have been a clear winner, and there isn’t – thank the mind-bending caucus/primary, split allocation rules of the DNC and state parties for that.

Posted by: Sam | April 23, 2008, 12:47 pm 12:47 pm

Just for the record, I would like to point out, that if the primary season were carried out like the general election,(which I believe it should be) in the electoral college Clinton would now have 230 electoral votes. If you count Florida she jumps to 257. Count Michigan and she goes over the 270 marker to win with 274. This is not counting any states she may pick up in future primaries. And it also credits Obama’s caucus victories as primaries, which is very generous.

Posted by: hopesprings52 | April 23, 2008, 12:48 pm 12:48 pm

If Hillary needs money so bad, why doesn’t she just trade some cattle futures?

Posted by: Doug | April 23, 2008, 12:48 pm 12:48 pm

Well it clearly states on your politics page that Clinton is leading the popular vote count.
That is the certified vote count acording to all the Secretaries of State.
Just because the delegates have been sanctioned doesn’t mean the Secretaries of State vote count should be ignored.
Obama chose not to have his name on the ballot in MI. His choice, for political reasons.

Posted by: s.b. | April 23, 2008, 12:48 pm 12:48 pm

Something for Clinton supporters to think about: you all insist that, even though they broke the rules (the rules Clinton agreed to when it was convenient for her), the popular vote – if not the delegates – should be counted for Florida and Michigan, right? To not do so would be disenfranchisement, right?
Here’s the problem: any count of the popular vote is going to disenfranchise all of the people who voted in caucus states because those states do not keep popular vote tallies. And those states obeyed the rules.
You may not like caucuses (though, I’m sure if Clinton were better at winning them, you’d be changing your tune) but many states have chosen that method of voting in presidential primaries. That is their right to do so. If you don’t like it, fight to get those states to change to primaries – I’d actually be all for that!
But what Clinton (and her supporters) are advocating is changing the rules in the middle of the game in order to guarantee her victory. That’s what seating Florida and Michigan would be, and that’s what “discounting” caucus states would be. To advocate this is to absolutely undermine our political process.

Posted by: Gloria | April 23, 2008, 12:50 pm 12:50 pm

Hillary just seems evil to me. I think it’s the cackle.
She cackled when responding to questions on Iran.
She wants nuclear war with Iran.

Posted by: Doug | April 23, 2008, 12:51 pm 12:51 pm

So we are supposed to be surprised that the Clinton campaign is a bunch of desperate, prevaricating hypocrites? The notion of counting up votes in a state where Obama wasn’t even on the ballot is just completely IDIOTIC.
I am so embarrassed to be a democrat at this point. Hillary is such a total fraud. What is the difference between her and McCain? ZIPPO. Same old washington insiders, same campaign promises, same negative attacks and fear mongering, same triangulating, middle of the road garbage from the government.
I guess I might vote for Nader after all.

Posted by: mg | April 23, 2008, 12:51 pm 12:51 pm

Rogue states. That’s hillarious JAke.
Florida and Michigan aren’t Lybia and North Korea.
Rogue states, hardly. Florida voted what 3 days early and a win in Florida would have put a democrat inthe white house for the last eight years.
Yeah is that wording being fed straight from the Obama campaign. Rogue states.
Absolutely ridiculous!

Posted by: s.b. | April 23, 2008, 12:51 pm 12:51 pm

Doug, Kathleen, and all of you Obama supporters: Really, this is what Obama means by being “about hope and a new kind of politics” You and Obama are ridiculous and are incapable of civil conversation. Why Obama even felt the need to give Hillary in two speeches in North Carolina after his horrible performance at the ABC debate. He lost, after spending approximately 2 million dollars a week in Pennsylvania because he could not convince people that he is ready to be president.

Posted by: svsolis | April 23, 2008, 12:52 pm 12:52 pm

the votes are certified by state board of elections. They are what they are.

Posted by: geevill | April 23, 2008, 12:52 pm 12:52 pm

I don’t really understand how this could possibly even be considered fair if no one was allowed to campaign. Even if Hillary was up by XX amount, they were campaigning in most states for weeks. They didn’t do that in Michigan of Florida because they weren’t supposed to count, as Hillary herself said.
Obama narrows the gap in every state he competes with her in.. If those states had real primaries at times which wouldn’t have put them in violation of the rules, there’s no way she would have won with enough of a gap to overtake his popular vote lead.
I like Hillary but this is unfair and while I get why people want Hillary to win, I’ve talked to quite a few black friends of mine who said they wouldn’t vote for McCain but they definitely wouldn’t vote for the Democrat in this election, or any to come for the forseeable future. If she doesn’t win by overtaking him fairly with popular votes, where all people get to hear from Obama in the state, see his message, where he can campaign too (which is how he wins), they are not going to believe this is credible.
Believing in Hillary is one thing. Disliking Obama is one thing. Depressing African American turnout for Democratic races for the forseeable future by doing something that is perceived as unfair by most accounts, is another.
I can not fathom how people could consider allowing the party to be destroyed like that. It’s amazing to me. I like Hillary but I’ll be damned if I’m going to agree to allowing such a reliable part of our voting block to be compromised in this way.

Posted by: Danjr0802 | April 23, 2008, 12:53 pm 12:53 pm

IT’S TIME AMERICA:
It’s time for everyone to face the truth. Barack Obama has no real chance of winning the national election in November at this time. His crushing defeat in Pennsylvania makes that fact crystal clear. His best, and only real chance of winning in November is on a ticket with Hillary Clinton as her VP.
Hillary Clinton seemed almost somber at her victory speech. As if part of her was hoping Obama could have defeated her. And proved he had some chance of winning against the republican attack machine, and their unlimited money, and resources. In all honesty. I felt some of that too.
But it is absolutely essential that the democrats take back the Whitehouse in November. America, and the American people are in a very desperate condition now. And the whole World has been doing all that they can to help keep us propped up.
Hillary Clinton say’s that the heat, and decisions in the Whitehouse are much tougher than the ones on the campaign trail. But I think Mr. Obama faces a test of whether he has what it takes to be a commander and chief by facing the difficult facts, and the truth before him. And by doing what is best for the American people by dropping out of the race, and offering his whole hearted assistance to Hillary Clinton to help her take back the Whitehouse for the American people, and the World.
Mr. Obama is a great speaker. And I am confident he can explain to the American people the need, and wisdom of such a personal sacrifice for them. It should be clear to everyone by now that Hillary Clinton is fighting her heart out for the American people. She has known for a long time that Mr. Obama can not win this November. You have to remember that the Clinton’s have won the Whitehouse twice before. They know what it takes.
If Mr. Obama fails his test of commander and chief we can only hope that Hillary Clinton can continue her heroic fight for the American people. And that she prevails. She will need all the continual support and help we can give her. She may fight like a superhuman. But she is only human.
Sincerely
Jacksmith… Working Class :-)

Posted by: jacksmith | April 23, 2008, 12:54 pm 12:54 pm

And why would ABC news change something that has been in place since this whole thing began?
Because it actually shows Clinton leading!
Wow no media bias there, just ignore the Secretaries of State. Ignore 2.3 million voters.
Are the other MSM outlets going to show the real version of the pop vote ie all votes cast and certified by Secretaries of State or are they just going to show the version fed to them by the Obama campaign?
Just wondering.

Posted by: s.b. | April 23, 2008, 12:54 pm 12:54 pm

Also, several of the caucus states are not counted in the popular vote tally–states Obama won. Something probably worth mentioning here, don’t you think?

Posted by: RM | April 23, 2008, 12:55 pm 12:55 pm

jake is correct. any astute political observer would have given the numbers a crunch and realized the lead was only true IF michigan and florida were counted in the equation. but what hillary is doing is she is challenging this issue which does need to get resolved and bring the topic back in to the discussion. smart move perhaps, instead of a lie like the obama folks are suggesting.

Posted by: sonia trevino | April 23, 2008, 12:55 pm 12:55 pm

FoxNews and ABC are in bed with Hillary the Bosnian General, you have to pay a price for that. It is stupid to even talk about the vote in Fl and MI, because nobody on earth will buy that crap, so you are trying to bring that in discussions, but if applied it will just be a cheat on the winner. If democarts will accept that then McNasty is the prez. God bless America and God bless Obama.OBAMA08.

Posted by: BKMC | April 23, 2008, 12:56 pm 12:56 pm

Hillary Clinton is running to be President, whose job it is to enforce the laws of the United States Constitution.
If she herself refuses to play by the rules of her own political party regarding the rogue primaries of MI & FL, how can she be trusted to enforce any laws or rules, anywhere.
By contrast, Obama is an expert on the US Constitution and has taught at one of the country’s premier law schools. A level of expertise we could really use in light of the Bush Administration’s frequent twisting of the letter and spirit of the law.
Despite all the attention to some controversial people he has in some ways unwisely associated with, Barack Obama is an honorable man. If Hillary had more of that quality I would have supported her all the way. It’s really too bad.
By the way the transparency about this blog posting flap is excellent and much appreciated.

Posted by: Danny | April 23, 2008, 12:57 pm 12:57 pm

Yeah challenging States rights will be a great platform for the Democrats in the fall.
Secretaries of State decide what votes are valid and certified.
If the DNC wants to challenge States rights I’m sure the Republicans will be more than happy to take them up on the offer.
The votes haven’t been sanctioned just the delegates and probably not even the super delegates.
ABC news made the call to post the vote as certified, quite some time ago.
It was and is the correct choice.

Posted by: s.b. | April 23, 2008, 12:58 pm 12:58 pm

Doug,
All Obama has to do is win. You cannot continue to make excuses for him. As The Oakland Raiders use to say “Just Win Baby”. All she is doing is winning. Again I say 11 Million to 4 Million and he still could not close the deal.
If you support you need to turn to him and ask Dude what’s up. He’ll understand what you mean.
Besides with all the baggage that Clinton has that you want to bring up and she still cleans her clock is a testament to her strenght. Do you think all the people who voted for her don’t know her story.
The name of the game is winning. And winning when it is tough.

Posted by: Leonard | April 23, 2008, 12:58 pm 12:58 pm

GLORIA – the DNC rules allow the MI/FL and others to petition the credentials committee to seat their delegates for voting on the nomination … it’s in the rules. Why shouldn’t HRC/supporters take it all the way, when the rules are set up to allow it? THat would be like saying no need to play the 4th qtr, we’ll take our loss in the 3rd.

Posted by: Marcus | April 23, 2008, 12:59 pm 12:59 pm

Was the vote in PA fair? Obama had six weeks and spent buckets of money and still got trounced. Now take out the maring of win in Illinois and the vote totals become lopsided for Clinton. How many votes did the Chicago machine pad for Obama?

Posted by: geevill | April 23, 2008, 1:01 pm 1:01 pm

The US Constitution is very clear on States Rights.
Obama as a constitutional lawyer should know that.
Which is why his 50/50 proposal is a total red herring. The DNC can’t over ride States rights. They can sanction the delegates as certified by the States or not.
They can’t arbitrarily make up new delegate counts or new vote counts.
That’s the US constitution and that’s why the Supreme Court ruled in favour of Bush against Gore. The Florida Secretary of State had certified Bush as the winnner. Not a darn thing anyone else can do about it. Not the Supreme Court and not the DNC.
The votes from MI and FL stand unless there is another vote.

Posted by: s.b. | April 23, 2008, 1:01 pm 1:01 pm

Hillary lost big states like Washington, Colorado, Missouri, Virginia, Wisconsin, and Georgia.
In fact, she got blown out in those states. It wasn’t even close.

Posted by: Doug | April 23, 2008, 1:01 pm 1:01 pm

Gotta love the term “rogue states”. The breakaway republics of Florida and Michigan! However, the bottom line as others have stated here is that the winner needs 2025 delegates. Under the bizarre system set up by the Dem Party, which I believe hurts both candidates, neither candidate will have the necessary delegates after the primaries are concluded so they will both be in the same boat. The rules do not state that the one with the most delegates wins; it states that the one with 2025 delegates wins. In the old days, there were many conventions that went to multiple ballots before someone emerged with a majority of the delegates. Not infrequently, the one with the most delegates on the first ballot did not prevail. It’s not pretty and we haven’t seen it in a while, but it’s democracy.

Posted by: hopesprings52 | April 23, 2008, 1:01 pm 1:01 pm

COUNT MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA!!!!! THE DNC, AS USUAL HAS THEIR COLLECTIVE HEADS IN THE SAND. IT WILL NEVER BE CONSIDERED FAIR, IF THESE TWO STATES ARE NOT COUNTED. THIS IS GETTING MORE AND MORE RIDICULOUS BY THE DAY. WAKE-UP EVERYONE.

Posted by: beachnan | April 23, 2008, 1:04 pm 1:04 pm

Yeah the rogue states of Florida and Michigan might try to invade their neighboring states.
What will we do about those delegates then if MI and Fl take over another states delegation.
To arms to arms. MI and FL are pissed off!
Yeah Rogue states.

Posted by: s.b. | April 23, 2008, 1:04 pm 1:04 pm

dl,
The minute Obama got real power, he turned on the same community he organized, and protected the people who pay his bills.
That isn’t change…that is the same old politician we’ve all seen.
While he runs for President he actually has someone in the Rezko trial taking notes. Sorry, but that doesn’t sound like someone who is innocent. That sounds like someone who has to get his story straight based on what is presented in court.
He even has to lie about racism keeping him out. Colin Powell and the fact that America has begged him to run repeatedly, even as a Republican, is proof of that blatant lie.
Of course, that is his tactic. Obama has to insult people and call them racists for HIS short comings. The sad thing is if he did run the type of campaign he claims he is running, he would probably have more people behind him.
He shortchanged himself repeatedly, and expects everyone else to take responsibility for it.
And now his strategy to win is to steal votes from her in MI, and FL. While trying to claim he can win the general when he can’t win the states that actually vote Democratic in the general.
Those new to the political game might think it is impressive to win a Republican state in the Democratic primary. The rest of us know the truth.

Posted by: Cali girl | April 23, 2008, 1:07 pm 1:07 pm

Hillary said she wants to give an umbrella of protection to Arab dictatorships to countries like Saudi Arabia.
Why? Is it because Saudi sheiks funded the Clinton foundation and library?
The same Saudi sheiks who funded Al Qaeda and 9/11

Posted by: Doug | April 23, 2008, 1:10 pm 1:10 pm

Wondering why the pundits – and the voters, for that matter – aren’t trumpeting the possibility that based on, in some cases, more than twice the turnout than the Republicans in the primary contests, either Democrat will beat McCain in the general election even if many stay home or switch parties in protest. I don’t buy the argument that Republican voters are re-registering and crossing party lines to skew the numbers. Some maybe, but not a significant enough number. Besides, they’re not all that bright (dumb like a FOX is giving them too much credit). These are the 28% who approve of Bush’s performance remember.

Posted by: HoldenLitgo | April 23, 2008, 1:11 pm 1:11 pm

Current total votes from abcnews.com
Clinton 1585 15,013,846
Obama 1716 14,900,819
PA PUTS CLINTON BACK ON TOP
clinton takes over nationwide popular vote numbers in Pennsylvania and wins nomination.
FLORIDA and PENNSYLVANIA are identical demographically speaking.
Who is more likely to win FL and all the other big states? That should be the dem nom.
Barack will be painted quite easily as less than american – wright, rezco, ayers, dohrn, farrakhan, HAMAS in the church bulletin, and the list goes on…
the draft dodging darth cheney and bush swiftboated a congressional medal of honor winning john kerry,,,
the rovian dirty tricks bag is limitless and they can’t kill hillary — her ideas wont die.
Hillary got tough questions for 16 months as the front runner, now obama cant handle the heat unless its from the end of his pipe or cigarette.
no smoking in the whitehouse
and yes … he admitted smoking CRack in his youth…. if hillary did, she would be gone a long time ago…. Hillary fired her campaign manager in NHampshire for talking about it…. though ..the republicans are going to grind him ito soup meat, if he wins … a vote for barack is a vote for mccain.now u can’t win in November WHEN IT COUNTS THE MOST
with out FLORIDA
and PENNSYLVANIA

Posted by: greg | April 23, 2008, 1:12 pm 1:12 pm

HUSSEIN OBAMA IS UNELECTABLE IN
NOVEMBER.
HE LOST AGAIN ONE MORE OF THE BIG STATES.
SUPERDELEGATES WAKE-UP.
ELECTABILITY IN NOVEMBER IS THE ISSUE.
WHITES WILL NOT VOTE FOR BLACK CANDIDATE
WITH SUCH A BAD RECORD IN POLITICS.

Posted by: NIcholas | April 23, 2008, 1:13 pm 1:13 pm

Everybody was saying she needn’t rethink the campaign if she did not hit 10% margin over Obama. I don’t know why it is reported that she won by 10%. Any reasonable rounding puts her win a 9%. I’m not saying that is not a “win” but it is not the margin that most pundits said was needed. This is my first real sense that we have a news system project in the movie Network. News is manufactured to generate interest and then it is forgotten if it won’t keep the interest up. Amazing!

Posted by: Beverly Hillbilleries | April 23, 2008, 1:13 pm 1:13 pm

I can only speak as a Floridian. If we are ignored, we will ignore Obama in Nov. Why is he afraid of a
re-vote? He by far has more money than Clinton he has most of the MSM on his side. What’s the problem? His nomination will never be ligament without Florida and Michigan.

Posted by: Tina D | April 23, 2008, 1:15 pm 1:15 pm

HP Boston: This is why women will not be as upset as African Americans will. It’s simple. You cannot dispute these two statements:
As it stands now, if Obama wins, he will have won more pledged delegates, more states and more voters, according to the rules they both agreed to follow.
As it stands now, if Hillary wins, she will have won fewer states, fewer delegates and fewer voters, according to the rules they both agreed to follow.
That is how they’ll look at it and why there will be a different reaction. Put aside who you want to win for a second. Put aside hating Obama or Hillary. Put aside campaign talking points and look at this logically about what overruling pledged delegates and popular vote according to the rules, will do to African American turnout in this and future elections. First viable black man is ahead. White woman takes it away from him, even though both followed the rules.
Think logically and forget the rest. How do you think African Americans should react to that?

Posted by: Danjr0802 | April 23, 2008, 1:15 pm 1:15 pm

Why did HRC’s lead decline from 20% to 9% in PA???????????

Posted by: Beverly Hillbilleries | April 23, 2008, 1:16 pm 1:16 pm

The stupid women voted for her the think because she is a woman )I use that word carefully) that she is capable of running this country.They are WRONGGGGGGGGGG For god sakes wake up.Time for a woman I am a woman and if she was the one I would vote for her but she isn’t…Misspoke again??????????

Posted by: h | April 23, 2008, 1:17 pm 1:17 pm

Tina: Who will pay for it? The DNC uses its money for the General Election, every single time. THat’s what the RNC will do of course so the DNC can’t pay for it.
It’s $25 million per state and the Governors said they wouldn’t pay for it. Hillary can’t afford it.
Who pays for it? It isn’t free to get workers out, etc. How? That is why it broke down..not because of some nefarious Obama trick.
Who pays for it? Where’s the money come from?

Posted by: Danjr0802 | April 23, 2008, 1:17 pm 1:17 pm

Popular vote myths:
>Not in the by laws of the DNC for nominee recognition
>Caucuses cannot accurately reflect the popular vote
>Not all primaries are created equal, i.e. Open primaries, Closed primaries, hybrid primaries (Texas), Caucuses…how on any measure can this be reflective of a popular vote contest?
>Rules are set forth and cannot be changed in the middle of the contest

Posted by: Whatever | April 23, 2008, 1:18 pm 1:18 pm

Colorado, and Washington were caucus states, and from what I have been reading, the caucuses are being checked out for unfair tactics by Obama’s campaign. Can we say, steal an election??? Count all the votes-in Florida and Michigan, or this will never be considered fair.

Posted by: beachnan | April 23, 2008, 1:18 pm 1:18 pm

s.b. we will do better than that we will not vote for him.

Posted by: Tina D | April 23, 2008, 1:20 pm 1:20 pm

Jake and Rick: Welcome to the wonderful world of Clinton logic…

Posted by: from "The Decider" to "The Deceiver" | April 23, 2008, 1:21 pm 1:21 pm

This was over after Texas/Ohio. Again, delegates elect the nominees, and she has absolutely NO chance of catching Obama in the pledged delegates. The Super Delegates have stated again and again and again that they will not overturn this result, so this process is mathematically over. In fact, look for the Super Delegates to start moving even faster toward Obama (1 more Edwards backers did so this morning, with reports that 3 more are on the way).

Posted by: Texas Voter | April 23, 2008, 1:22 pm 1:22 pm

Clinton 1585 15,013,846
Obama 1716 14,900,819
Above are the figures from your website. Clinton up by 113,027.
I’m sure that the voters (and viewers) in Michigan and Florida will just love being called rogues by ABC News

Posted by: Kathy Corey | April 23, 2008, 1:23 pm 1:23 pm

I guess I am really confused at why it is so difficult for these super delegates to make their decision? Hillary took all of the large states and also most of the purple states needed to win the general. She has beat Obama by substantial numbers in places like PA, OH, MA, FL and she also could possibly take AR a state that has typically gone to the republicans. She carries the democratic base, a base that shows strong support and one that shows up at the polls. Obama can claim he has won more states but they are red states and he is already loosing ground with independent voters, the one group he said he could carry better than Clinton when going against Mccain.
If the democrats want a win in November, the clear choice is Hillary. Not to mention the fact that she will be able to unify the party by offering Obama the VP, something he is unwilling to do (so much for his ability to unite people!) He is too invested in himself to see that he would need to do the same (offer the VP to Clinton) to help bring in her supporters if he were to get the nomination, but it seems he is just to arrogant and bullheaded to do that.

Posted by: Andrea | April 23, 2008, 1:24 pm 1:24 pm

Rules are rules and the game is the same.
The cacuses arent some brand new creation. The fact of the matter is that Hillary had a strategy to win, and that failed miserably. So now they want to change the rules mid-game.
Dont blame the better team just because your team sucks.

Posted by: Rob | April 23, 2008, 1:25 pm 1:25 pm

What is the purpose of posting the popular vote from Florida and Michigan? The states do not count and it simply inflames the situation by having them dangled out there. Neither contest was sanctioned. What about all the people who stayed home and did not vote because they were told it did not count?

Posted by: kamldp | April 23, 2008, 1:29 pm 1:29 pm

“On the plus side, Hillary is showing a scrappy, tough blue-collar talent that is critical for November — but apparently it will be all for naught, or worse, cause lots of these Middle America “clingers” to go over to McCain.
More and more, McCain will want to run against Obama and his far weaker coalition of elite whites, African-Americans, students — and closets of skeletons. More and more, we will start to see the buyer’s remorse of midsummer 1972″
Victor Davis Hanson-NRO.
It’s so simple, but many Obama supporters were not born yet in 1972.

Posted by: geevil | April 23, 2008, 1:29 pm 1:29 pm

WAIT! You’re saying Hillary Clinton LIED?
I’m SHOCKED! SHOCKED, I tell you!

Posted by: Dema | April 23, 2008, 1:29 pm 1:29 pm

Rotten. We’ve become acclimated to BS after 8 years of Bush. The Clintons are just mimicing what works: lie, cheat, and steal. Bill and Hillary have become the George W. of the Dem party.

Posted by: EddyNewHope | April 23, 2008, 1:29 pm 1:29 pm

Why is Hillary’s campaign broke?
Why can’t she manage money?
Why won’t Hillary pay her vendors?
Why does Hillary have so much debt?

Posted by: Doug | April 23, 2008, 1:31 pm 1:31 pm

Here’s what Clinton’s campaign actually wrote this morning about the popular vote -
More people Have Voted For Hillary Than Any Other Candidate: “After last night’s decisive victory in Pennsylvania, more people have voted for Hillary than any other candidate, including Sen. Obama. Estimates vary slightly, but according to Real Clear Politics, Hillary has received 15,095,663 votes to Sen. Obama’s 14,973,720, a margin of more than 120,000 votes. ABC News reported this morning that ‘Clinton has pulled ahead of Obama’ in the popular vote. This count includes certified vote totals in Florida and Michigan.”
This is NOT a misrepresentation of what ABC said – it’s true that more people have placed a vote for Clinton than any other candidate. You are free to agree or disagree with the addition of Florida or Michigan, but there’s no denying that real people did vote for real people in both of those primaries.

Posted by: Mary Lou | April 23, 2008, 1:32 pm 1:32 pm

This is purely a Democratic party matter for the DNC to rule on, which they already did by stripping Michigan and Florida of their delegates.
For Hillary’s campaign to insist that an invalid election be counted as is shows contempt for the basic principle of following rules.
This is not a matter of states rights, but rather Democratic party rules.
The rules can be changed for the next election cycle, but not in the middle of the process.
For what it’s worth, I thought the 50-50 suggestion was silly. But not nearly as bad as demanding an invalid election be counted as is.
And for the record, no one mentioned “rogue states”. I mentioned “rogue primaries” as per Jake’s (accurate) description in this blog posting.

Posted by: Danny | April 23, 2008, 1:34 pm 1:34 pm

D-E-L-E-G-A-T-E-S
Nothing else matters and the rest of this conversation is a waste of time.

Posted by: Texas Voter | April 23, 2008, 1:34 pm 1:34 pm

The news pundits come down on Sen. Obama for ‘playing nice’ and then when he decides to get a ‘bit tougher’ – they all cry foul. You can’t have it both ways! I’m all for Sen. Obama getting down in the trenches and finally ‘whooping her arse’ and getting this thing over with once and for all.

Posted by: GrandmaCDA | April 23, 2008, 1:36 pm 1:36 pm

The reality is that Hillary will catch up with Obama with Michigan and Florida and that is the reason Obama is not interested in counting their votes. He has double standard too.

Posted by: Nil | April 23, 2008, 1:36 pm 1:36 pm

Jake,
You are too invested in being “right.” I read the same section of the ABC blog last night that Clinton camp was relying upon. Perhaps they read it in the morning, not last night. What is all the fuss about? I think it is a stretch to have your lead be that Clinton camp “misrepresented” ABC. While the inclusion of FL and MI may not be allowed for delegate count by the DNC, it is fair to include FL and MI in the popular vote because people there did vote. Obama and Edwards decided to take their names off the ballot in MI. They did not have to. I read an article that unequivocally stated both Obama and Edwards were trying to curry favor from the DNC and so decided to withdraw their names. Neither were favored to win there at all and they had nothing to loose and everything to be gained. It was strategic. Also, remember that Obama sent surrogates around in MI to tell his people to show up and vote uncommitted. Note, Obama and Edwards’ names were included in FL’s ballot and FL had a record turnout for the primaries.
Jake, look into Obama strategy re: MI and DNC.

Posted by: countallthevotes | April 23, 2008, 1:36 pm 1:36 pm

What about the voters in all those caucus states? (Oh, now I remember–Hillary believes that caucus states don’t count.)

Posted by: Durant Imboden | April 23, 2008, 1:37 pm 1:37 pm

The “popular vote” argument is specious at best, and deliberately misleading at worst – and unfortunately, the mainstream media are increasingly ‘buying’ this false pretense spun by the Clinton campaign, and ‘selling’ it to the public in turn.
The truth is that there is no measure of the ‘popular vote’ during this Democratic primary season that is based on actual fact.
There has been no measure of the ‘popular vote’ in states that have used a caucus based delegate system – states which have gone, conveniently for the Clinton campaign’s ‘popular vote’ premise, overwhelmingly for Obama. Attempting to extrapolate a guess of what any popular vote tally might have been from caucus states based on guesstimates of what the turnout might have been if caucus states had been ‘primary’ states, based on caucus results, polls, or other estimates, are no more than educated guesses at best; as there were no official and certified measures of ‘popular vote’ in these states, the argument begins to fall flat, as it is based on a false premise to begin with – and even if there were a real measure of ‘popular vote’ in these states, the fact is that these states went for Obama, not Clinton, further undermining the specious ‘popular vote’ argument.
The Clinton campaign also counts the disqualified contests in Michigan (where Obama and other primary candidates were not even on the ballot) and Florida (where candidates promised not to campaign, but Clinton made a fundraising appearance anyway, and the DNC ruled that an Obama television commercial would still be allowed to run, as it was a national ad buy on cable television, and was not specifically targeted at Florida viewers), towards this imaginary ‘popular vote’ tally. As we have seen in previous contests, voters have consistently moved toward Obama as they gain familiarity with the candidates. Without the candidates having campaigned in Michigan and Florida, we’ll never know how real, sanctioned campaigns in these states would have turned out, and how voters becoming familiar with Barack Obama would have offset their familiarity with Hillary Clinton, which, given the early contests, was largely based on her almost universal name recognition as a former first lady, compared to the other primary candidates. While it is necessary that the delegations from Florida and Michigan be seated at the national convention (and there should be no doubt that they will, once all is said and done, contrary to the false claims of ‘disenfranchisement’ by the Clinton campaign), it is a false argument to claim ‘popular vote’ totals from Florida (where voters did not have the chance to fairly compare the candidates) or Michigan (where most of the primary candidates did not even have their names on the ballot) toward an imaginary ‘popular vote’ tally.
Some states voted using a ‘caucus’ method, while those that voted using a ‘primary’ method did so in a variety of ways. In some ‘primary’ states, only registered Democrats were allowed to vote; in others, registered Democrats and Independents; in still others, there were ‘open’ primaries where voters of any party – Democrat, Republican, Independent, Green, or other – were allowed to participate. Even within the subset of states that used a ‘primary’ process, the results can’t be directly compared.
Yet the Clinton campaign – and increasingly, reporters, commentators, and pundits of the mainstream media – have increasingly turned to this false narrative, or arguing that states that Clinton has won are the only ‘states that matter’ – a self-serving fallacy that bolsters the Clinton campaign’s increasingly desperate arguments to superdelegates to overturn the will of the voters by changing the rules of the game as the clock runs out, and serves the mainstream media’s desire to boost their ratings increase advertising revenue by playing up the ‘drama’ of a continued primary campaign – the mainstream media’s financial interests lie in a ‘close contest’, at the expense of real reporting of actual facts to the American public, and at the expense of their duty as journalists to serve in the public interest.

Posted by: Chris R | April 23, 2008, 1:38 pm 1:38 pm

I love reading this comments… I particularly like the one claiming that you are probably paid by the Obama campaign. What is so great about this is that these SAME PEOPLE were applauding ABC’s appalling debate last week, when Obama was asked tough and downright unfair questions, but the second you say something not even pro-Obama but just FACTUAL about Clinton you are labeled an Obama-lover. Hypocrisy runs very deep among the Clinton campaign and its supporters!

Posted by: Denny | April 23, 2008, 1:38 pm 1:38 pm

Obama took his name off MI because he knew MI was Hillary’s state. Why didn’t he take his name off FL?
Obama is a great speaker. That is why he was so persuasive among the voters who had chances to listen to him. But he did poorly against Hillary in debates. Doesn’t that tell something?
We are choosing a manager not a speaker of our country. America is in too devastating to wait for someone to be ready. For someone who calling the blacks to boycott, don’t forget who will suffer most if McCain elected.

Posted by: Jane | April 23, 2008, 1:38 pm 1:38 pm

Okay Comrade Clinton, you’ve won more votes than anyone…IF you count Michigan which you won in much the same way that Castro “won” Cuba – but if you insist.
I guess democracy only suits Hillary Clinton when it meets HER needs – This is quite a scary prospect for someone seeking to be President.

Posted by: Melanie | April 23, 2008, 1:38 pm 1:38 pm

By the way, the DNC never said Michigan and Florida couldnt have their primary or vote. They allowed both. They wouldnt allow the DELEGATES. The popular vote is fair game. Clinton can give Obama the uncommited vote in Michigan and add it up that way.

Posted by: tomdavie | April 23, 2008, 1:44 pm 1:44 pm

According to the rules they both agreed to play by, he has won more than she has.
Can anyone say that’s untrue?

Posted by: Danjr0802 | April 23, 2008, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm

Nor surprising Team Clinton sounds a bit dizzy – all that spinning will do it to you every time.

Posted by: Tom J | April 23, 2008, 1:48 pm 1:48 pm

FOR YOUR INFORMATION; Obama and Edward were not in the Michigan ballot, because they signed an affidavit to remove their names. Don’t feel sorry about Obama’s name not in the bullet.
He fears Michigan and Florida and pretends to ignore the voters and divide both states in equal parts. Is that the double standard President that America wants?

Posted by: Nil | April 23, 2008, 1:50 pm 1:50 pm

Why am I even reading blogs today?
Why does it burn me everytime I see Hillary and Bill spin, lie, cheat, and steal? Tell me, why?
Also, why don’t people get it about Fla. and Mi.? Those votes don’t count because those votes are like “illegal” votes. Hillary and all the Democratic candidates AGREED TO ELIMINATE FLA. AND MI. VOTES IF THEY CHANED THEIR PRIMARY DATES! The states broke the rules, their votes weren’t ever to be counted, that is why only Hillary’s name is on the ballot in Mi. She was thinking about cheating from the get. The other honest candidates did WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO! This is the last time I am explaining this to you deaf, dumb and blind Clinton supporters.

Posted by: mary from cleveland | April 23, 2008, 1:51 pm 1:51 pm

Ok you can not count Michagan in any count because Obama was not on ticket.
They are all wrong-
Without Florida or Michagan
Obama: 12,891,604
Clinton: 12,217,745
Add Florida
Obama: 13,467,818
Hilary: 13,088,731
OK Now add Michigan (with Florida Tally) but put the undecided ones to Obama because they voted pretty much against Hilary since Obama was not on ticket.
Obama: 13,705,986
Hilary: 13,417,040
So no matter how you spin it or split it Obama has the popular liberal vote!

Posted by: spock | April 23, 2008, 1:52 pm 1:52 pm

Gosh Jack feeling used by the Clinton spin morons? That’s how many of us feel when you misrepresent the news to us concerning this race…and you have. You know it and so do we.
YOU and others have encouraged this idiocy to continue when you know as well as any one with a brain knows, Clinton cannot win the delegate race(which is how this is won) nor can she win the popular vote even if they included the faulty votes from MI and FL. She cannot win more states. She’s lost and the only thing keeping her alive? and killing the democratic party? Other than Motel 6 Bill and nut job Hillary? IS THE MEDIA and that includes YOU so don’t come here now crying about how mean old 3 million dollar a year Wolfson and 6 million dollar a year Harrold the Ick have mis represented YOU.
Oh and good luck getting the Democratic nominee Obama to give ABC any kind of interview when the day comes LOL

Posted by: Brian | April 23, 2008, 1:53 pm 1:53 pm

Maybe you all remember Michigan differently than I do. Yes, the Obama camp kept itself off the ballot, but it also undeniably and actively participated in that process. It called on its supporters to vote a specific way, and many of them did just that.
It’s an awfully big stretch for Mr. Tapper to implicitly deny that ABC indicated no less than three times (last night’s story, this morning’s story and the web vote count) that Hillary has overtaken Obama in the TOTAL vote count, however valid or invalid you consider that metric to be.
I could just as easily discount the undemocratic and unequal nature of caucus processes. That’s not the point. Everyone’s editorializing aside, Clinton now has earned the votes of more primary voters than Obama. That’s a undeniable fact.
Shame on Mr. Tapper to hang his hat on word-parsing to justify his criticisms to the contrary.

Posted by: commonsensenj | April 23, 2008, 1:54 pm 1:54 pm

tomdavie:
Heck, if you guys insist on counting the Michigan vote, I’d take the deal that Obama gets the uncommitted. We can even seat the delegation that way. With a 55-45 split, it still won’t help her, and it puts Senator Obama back in the popular vote lead!
Thanks!
Obama 2008 — Yes, WE CAN!!!

Posted by: Jackt51 -- Vietnam Vet and Proud Liberal | April 23, 2008, 1:54 pm 1:54 pm

I will not vote for Barrack Obama unless he wins fairly. That means counting all of the votes in Michigan and Florida. Counting votes that were actually cast by people. Caucus states do not have a popular vote so they cant be “allocated”. Whoever is ahead in the popular vote (counting all votes cast)should get the nomination and then I will vote for that person in November. Anything less would be unfair to either candidate and I cannot support that by voting for either one!
Sorry DNC you lose unless you choose!

Posted by: Chipo | April 23, 2008, 1:54 pm 1:54 pm

TO TEXAS VOTER
===============
DELEGATES ONLY MATTERS FOR THE NOMINATION-NOTHING ELSE.
ELECTABILITY IN NOVEMBER IS THE KEY
ISSUE.
…AND WHO’S ELECTABLE IN NOVEMBER????
I LET YOU DECIDE……
REMEMBER OBAMA LOST ALL THE BIG STATES.

Posted by: NIcholas | April 23, 2008, 1:56 pm 1:56 pm

Oh by the way even if you do not give Michigan’s uncommitted votes to Obama but give Hilary her votes
Obama has 13,467,818
Hilary has 13,417,040
So no matter what Obama has at least 50,778 more votes then Hilary.

Posted by: spock | April 23, 2008, 1:56 pm 1:56 pm

Chipo:
So you again would re-write the rules to provide you with an “excuse” to not vote for Senator Obama who has earned his place in the lead???
Some fairness!!!
No Thanks. We’ll skip your vote.
Obama 2008 — Yes, WE CAN!!!

Posted by: Jackt51 -- Vietnam Vet and Proud Liberal | April 23, 2008, 1:57 pm 1:57 pm

Mary – Illegal votes, who said? how can a vote be illegal… someoone provided ballots and polling places for everyone of those people to vote

Posted by: Chipo | April 23, 2008, 1:58 pm 1:58 pm

Jackt51: And say hello to President McCain. You cannot disenfranchise millions of voters and expect to win. You lose either way. Now how is that goingto help our country?

Posted by: Chipo | April 23, 2008, 2:00 pm 2:00 pm

ABC is sure acting as if Obama will come over and take their lunch money if they say Clinton is in the lead.
It is such a petty issue, to act as if its a world crisis so the Clinton camp said ABC said Clinton has the popular vote big deal!!!
Now we have a blog on this issue and a long diatribe as to who is wrong or right, its sure looks at if some one is afraid they get spanked.

Posted by: SJ | April 23, 2008, 2:01 pm 2:01 pm

I made a mistake with my addition but still right on outcome that Obama has lead, except with adding Michigan if you do not add uncommitted to Obama from Michigan then Clinton would be in lead, but add uncommitted to Obama and he has popular vote by over 100,000

Posted by: spock | April 23, 2008, 2:03 pm 2:03 pm

Superdeligates are there for themselves. Each and every one of them have something to gain by aligning with one side or the other. They’re protecting their own best interest. Does anybody actuality think these kingpins care a whit for the voter?

Posted by: S | April 23, 2008, 2:04 pm 2:04 pm

The “popular vote” argument is specious at best, and deliberately misleading at worst – and unfortunately, the mainstream media are increasingly ‘buying’ this false pretense spun by the Clinton campaign, and ‘selling’ it to the public in turn.
The truth is that there is no measure of the ‘popular vote’ during this Democratic primary season that is based on actual fact.
There has been no measure of the ‘popular vote’ in states that have used a caucus based delegate system – states which have gone, conveniently for the Clinton campaign’s ‘popular vote’ premise, overwhelmingly for Obama. Attempting to extrapolate a guess of what any popular vote tally might have been from caucus states based on guesstimates of what the turnout might have been if caucus states had been ‘primary’ states, based on caucus results, polls, or other estimates, are no more than educated guesses at best; as there were no official and certified measures of ‘popular vote’ in these states, the argument begins to fall flat, as it is based on a false premise to begin with – and even if there were a real measure of ‘popular vote’ in these states, the fact is that these states went for Obama, not Clinton, further undermining the specious ‘popular vote’ argument.
The Clinton campaign also counts the disqualified contests in Michigan (where Obama and other primary candidates were not even on the ballot) and Florida (where candidates promised not to campaign, but Clinton made a fundraising appearance anyway, and the DNC ruled that an Obama television commercial would still be allowed to run, as it was a national ad buy on cable television, and was not specifically targeted at Florida viewers), towards this imaginary ‘popular vote’ tally. As we have seen in previous contests, voters have consistently moved toward Obama as they gain familiarity with the candidates. Without the candidates having campaigned in Michigan and Florida, we’ll never know how real, sanctioned campaigns in these states would have turned out, and how voters becoming familiar with Barack Obama would have offset their familiarity with Hillary Clinton, which, given the early contests, was largely based on her almost universal name recognition as a former first lady, compared to the other primary candidates. While it is necessary that the delegations from Florida and Michigan be seated at the national convention (and there should be no doubt that they will, once all is said and done, contrary to the false claims of ‘disenfranchisement’ by the Clinton campaign), it is a false argument to claim ‘popular vote’ totals from Florida (where voters did not have the chance to fairly compare the candidates) or Michigan (where most of the primary candidates did not even have their names on the ballot) toward an imaginary ‘popular vote’ tally.
Some states voted using a ‘caucus’ method, while those that voted using a ‘primary’ method did so in a variety of ways. In some ‘primary’ states, only registered Democrats were allowed to vote; in others, registered Democrats and Independents; in still others, there were ‘open’ primaries where voters of any party – Democrat, Republican, Independent, Green, or other – were allowed to participate. Even within the subset of states that used a ‘primary’ process, the results can’t be directly compared.
Yet the Clinton campaign – and increasingly, reporters, commentators, and pundits of the mainstream media – have increasingly turned to this false narrative, or arguing that states that Clinton has won are the only ‘states that matter’ – a self-serving fallacy that bolsters the Clinton campaign’s increasingly desperate arguments to superdelegates to overturn the will of the voters by changing the rules of the game as the clock runs out, and serves the mainstream media’s desire to boost their ratings increase advertising revenue by playing up the ‘drama’ of a continued primary campaign – the mainstream media’s financial interests lie in a ‘close contest’, at the expense of real reporting of actual facts to the American public, and at the expense of their duty as journalists to serve in the public interest.

Posted by: Chris R | April 23, 2008, 2:04 pm 2:04 pm

I really don’t know why Jake and ABC are so worried leave out FL and MI don’t seat them, tell them to go to hell, then put Obama as the Democrat nominee and let see him win the GE, what is so hard in that?

Posted by: SJ | April 23, 2008, 2:06 pm 2:06 pm

This is a sad day in the US. Someone needs to step in and get her out of here. I don’t think she would know the truth if it slapped her. I’ll be relocating if she becomes president. We just had 8 years of lying. Oh, and 8 years before that if you count her husband. I can’t possibly take any more.

Posted by: Samantha | April 23, 2008, 2:07 pm 2:07 pm

What I see happening is Clinton continuing on this road to nowhere for her. She wants to destroy Obama, knowing full well she can’t win. Then Obama will lose to McCain because of her dirty tactics. Thus she can run in 4 years. What do you think.

Posted by: Betsy | April 23, 2008, 2:10 pm 2:10 pm

Liar! Liar!
Her pantsuit’s on fire!
OBAMA/WEBB ’08 & ’12

Posted by: Roxanne | April 23, 2008, 2:10 pm 2:10 pm

Well what goes around comes around ABC. Tell it to Charlie Gibson (whom I used to love) and Georgie Porgie Stephanopoulos (whom I never could stand).
Don’t you get it ABC? The Clintons CANNOT BE TRUSTED FOR ONE MINUTE.

Posted by: Laughing in Texas | April 23, 2008, 2:10 pm 2:10 pm

thank you abc for clearing this up. i still believe that ALL the votes must count and that the state officials not the voters should be held accountable.

Posted by: sonia trevino | April 23, 2008, 2:11 pm 2:11 pm

Obama will lose to McCain because he just cant beat him, not because of Hillary.
Obama does not have the base to beat McCain and all the republicans that voted for him to move Clinton will vote for McCain so Obama is toast.

Posted by: SJ | April 23, 2008, 2:13 pm 2:13 pm

Bon voyage, Samantha!

Posted by: commonsensenj | April 23, 2008, 2:15 pm 2:15 pm

Letter to the Editor or Blog
TIME FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS TO BOYCOTT THE ELECTIONS.
I have carefully viewed the Democratic race between Obama and Hillary Clinton. Obama came into the race knowing the challenges he would face as black candidate who would not always be judged by his knowledge and skills, but by the color of his skin. The media fascination with Obama is causing him the President seat. Our country’s unwillingness to except a black candidate has become evident to me as Hillary Clinton exports that to get votes.
Throughout history African Americans have struggled to survive and to be accepted not just as a citizen, but as a human being. African American have voted and helped shaped this country not always for their benefits or rights, but they were asked to be apart of a democracy that only includes them to meet others needs and their ambitions.
I have decided that although this country is the greatest country in the world that we still have a division among race that is clear in this election process. African Americans have voted and are expected to vote for any white candidate, but white people are not expected or will vote for a Black candidate. This is clear in Ohio and Penn as the tone of race this becomes evident to me.
I’m asking that all African Americans who believe that this is unjust system, that its okay to vote for a white candidate, but in this country its still okay to not vote for a black candidate; not because of comments, or church affiliations because those things occurred with white candidate which still did not stop them from getting into the White House. No these are things that just gave people a reason not to vote when they weren’t going to vote anyway with the real underlining issue being Race. Its time that African American and White Americans who believe this is an unjustified process in our today’s society that we boycott the elections for the Democratic Party.
I’m asking all African American to boycott Hillary Clinton if she is our nominee. Not because she is white or a woman, but because of her dirty tactics to exploit race. I’m asking that we boycott her selection because this country has an unfair process when it comes to electing an African American verses a White American President.
We have never had an African American President and for all the reason that people make up for the reason why the real reason doesn’t lie in bitter comments, or a Rev comment or anything else. It lies in the bitter heart of some people who will not let this country move forward. It lies in the hand of Media people who have talk show pundits who try to sway minds and get ratings. It lies in who has the power and who doesn’t. What Black men can win the White House? This is what African American should be asking. I mean can any Black men be qualified enough? Why do Black men have to walk a finer line than White men or even in this case a White Women who has a shady past?
It’s time we stood up and say that if it’s okay for us to vote outside our race than why isn’t okay for you to vote outside yours
Its time WE BOYCOTT THE ELECTION.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 2:15 pm 2:15 pm

I’m not sure if anybody is including Washington State. They had a “beauty contest” primary on February 19th, in addition to the caucuses. Obama won the “beauty contest” primary vote by 36,015 votes.
Ain’t much, but as long as we’re counting….

Posted by: Lee C. ― U.S.A. | April 23, 2008, 2:16 pm 2:16 pm

She can’t include Michigan! His name wasn’t even on the ballot! So when he gets ZERO votes from a whole state of course it helps her popular count. That’s idiotic.
As Michigan native I refuse to let my vote be counted that way. I would have voted for Obama but I couldn’t.
So I demand that we either get a re-vote in Michigan or they should stop putting my whole d*mn state in Hillary’s camp.

Posted by: Jessica | April 23, 2008, 2:16 pm 2:16 pm

African Americans in Congress and everywhere should consider boycotting the elections because it is clear that there we live in unbalance society. Its time we take things back to the 60′s. Its time for a civil rights movement.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 2:18 pm 2:18 pm

Does the Obama supporters really want a democratic president? Why are they so afraid of Hillary and beg her to go away even before the race is over? Yes, pointing to those numbers, the numbers of states Obama won and pretent most of them will be BLUE in general election.

Posted by: Jane | April 23, 2008, 2:18 pm 2:18 pm

Why are you surprised? ABC is the only network that even includes a popular count with the mi & fl count included. This is a delegate race, their delegates were not seated, their votes are not valid.
If you wanted to include votes from places that the candidates we not allowed to campaign, you should have just called Clinton & Guiliani the winners last November as they were 20 points ahead in the polls before the campaigning started>
Stop the Drama, VOTE OBAMA!

Posted by: kathy | April 23, 2008, 2:23 pm 2:23 pm

sj
your wrong… most clinton supporters will vote for Obama no matter what and when you look at who is voting for each candidate…no matter what the polls show… when you get three months of issues…
Clinton supporters are far more likely to vote for Obama than Mccain rather than the opposite in a situation with Hillary vs. Mccain
those numbers they have been doing in the national polls if they are to be believed have to include the loss of candidate…and yes obama does much better than Hillary…with a lot more height on his seiling than Hillary does…
That is why this is all spin.
You may not vote for Obama…but most will. Youcan’t say that in the opposite direction…Obama has new and independent voters more than Hillary…
so viewpoints of many of those are closer to McCain than those who vote for Hillary.
It’s a losing argument all around on that issue…
You are going to tell me that Hillary supporters are more likely to vote for a guy who’s second talking point now is overturning Roe vs. Wade in a year where the supreme court is split closer to that… yeah I don’t think so.
Not to mention if we are going to pick between two hawks who are going to start some kind of policing of the world and arms race with Iran…trying to use intimidation tactics (which mCCain would have never threatened a country wanting nuclear weaponry with nuclear obliteration…bomb yes but not nuclear…that is just stupid…make them want them more)…
I think most people will pick the real military ammunition ducker not the one that plays one on tv.

Posted by: dl | April 23, 2008, 2:26 pm 2:26 pm

Betty,
That is sad really that it might come to this. I hope it does not. I am Italian American. I was highly offended by Rev. Wright and his slurs and condemnations of the Italians. There are 26 Millions Italian American voters in this country. Most are Democrats. The Sons of Italy published a letter denouncing Rev. Wright’s comments and requesting that each of the three presidential candidates denounce Rev. Wright. I have posted the letter here which traces the history of discrimination and lynchings of Italians in this country. Each time I posted it Jake would delete it.
I do feel for Black voters. This is a terrible debacle. At all times it was a recipe for disaster and I do think Kennedy, Kerry, Daschle, Pelosi, Dean, Dodd, Biden, Richardson, and on and on knew that. First Woman pres. candidate vs. First Black pres. You do not have to be a political scientist to predict the problems. Then factor in that their positions are so similar.

Posted by: countallthevotes | April 23, 2008, 2:29 pm 2:29 pm

According to last night’s primary, the American people don’t mind the Clintons’ exaggerations. America knows Michigan and Florida were stripped of delegates because of a ruling (of which Hillary SIGNED) BEFORE January. And yet Hillary spews “wrong doings” as if she wasn’t a part of the initiation.
It appears as if, once again, the Clintons will get a chance to disgrace this country.
It’s amazing the acceptance of hype from the MSM—-the Clintons have been campaigning in Pennsylvania for 15 YEARS, and all they got was a 10% win. Wow! Imagine if they started only 6 weeks ago. However—-the MSM enables Hillary’s narcisistic manner.

Posted by: Greg | April 23, 2008, 2:30 pm 2:30 pm

Hey Betty,
I am with you, I am so with you (with tears in my eyes)! You got my boycott even though I had no plans to vote for another white person if the nomination is stolen but that buzzard Hillary! LET THE BOYCOTT BEGIN!!!

Posted by: Past | April 23, 2008, 2:33 pm 2:33 pm

Look Rev Wright is not Obama and I just think its an excuse for people who do not want to vote for an black person just to use. Thats the shame of this country. We can go to IRAQ and call ourselves liberating that country, but we can’t even elect a black president.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 2:34 pm 2:34 pm

Past
Yes if your for real. Help spread the word around all the blogs about African American boycotting the elections.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 2:36 pm 2:36 pm

Another lie by the Clintons – imagine that!
It doesn’t surprise me if they don’t steal this election just like GWB did from Al Gore – but that is okay because their lying and cheating will come back to haunt them! I will also say thst if she does manage to steal the nomination, I’ll vote for McCain rather than put her in the WH.

Posted by: jozy | April 23, 2008, 2:36 pm 2:36 pm

and
sj if Hillary doesn’t keep beating up the only chance at pulling out of a war and fixing the economy this point… yes we may lose
but right now Obama can beat him without half of the Hillary supporters just look at the turnovers in states and new voters… Look at the people participating in primaries… Obama’s numbers are the same as all of the republicans in many states… and in some states where he blew Hillary out of the water…yes even with all the trashing he can pick up some.
This 50 50 split with low ceilings of approval and high veracious loyalty is what keeps us going down the tubes.
her argument about big states is a nonstarter…it is false. The difference between he and she can’t be equated with such small margins to translate in any way to the general.
here in PA…the oldest state with this many conservatives and older (50+) white women (who I may add are 4 times the number of African Americans that voted…but I don’t hear any Hillary supporters saying it is only because she is a woman.) With rendell two DNC chaiors running all over the state daily…and the entire political system behind her including the state dem committee… The best she could do was a 10 point win?
You forget that 3 weeks ago everyone said she had to win by 15 minimum but then you all spin it down to 10 being good for her…what a joke…if the results aren’t what you like spin them.
This woman has been the only brand for most of the dem party for 15 years.

Posted by: dl | April 23, 2008, 2:39 pm 2:39 pm

I’m going to make sure that I spread the boycott around African American have to fight for their rights just like the 60′s. There are hundreds of white americans who will stand by Obama if not thousand. We have to send a message that its time for a CHANGE

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 2:41 pm 2:41 pm

OK…. Superdelegates, this blog pretty much sums up the race.. Will you please cast your votes NOW…

Posted by: Becky | April 23, 2008, 2:43 pm 2:43 pm

THE ENDS JUSTIFIES the MEANS: this was Karl Rove’s political stratagem through the years. Seems the Clinton campaign has adopted the same tactic: WE (yes, WE) need to be President [for the good of the country!] and we’ll do whatever it takes – to get there, Democratic Party of the future be damned.
This is the same mentality of the last 8 years of the morally bankrupt Bush/Rove Republican operation.

Posted by: Larry J | April 23, 2008, 2:43 pm 2:43 pm

I am an african american female supporter of Sen. Clinton.
The black leaders and black talk radio stations have done the african american
aa community a disservice.
If the media had vetted obama early on we could have know more about him. if we had know what we know about him now he would not be in the lead.
the black radio stations encouraged the black people to go and vote for the brother-and don’t say anything to cause him any trouble.
a lot of the black working class people are not voting their interest.
sen. clinton’ healthcare bill is tailor made for the working people.
obama leaving 13mil out and giving adults a choice of paying into the healthcare plan will not get us universal health.
sen. clintons affordable college plan
will lift so so many of my black brother and sister’ children out of poverty.
the thing for me as a black woman is
if I help obama get into the white house that will help obama
but if I vote for sen. clinton that will help me and mine.
and that is all I want.
obama is to far to the left to win the ge.
and if anyone remember what housing and the economy was like (I do, I am 53)
the majority of black people do not want that-
that would suit obama and his handlers just fine-but it will not lift anyone up-.
no one wants to go backwards.
the only place the masses of black people and working people in general
want to be marching to is JOBS and better life for family.
a black vote for obama helps obama
a black vote for sen. clinton helps the black voter.
Obama is not the one.
to my black brothers and sister
vote you economic interest
vote for Sen. Clinton

Posted by: jgaw | April 23, 2008, 2:44 pm 2:44 pm

Betty posted:
“Look Rev Wright is not Obama and I just think its an excuse for people who do not want to vote for an black person just to use. Thats the shame of this country. We can go to IRAQ and call ourselves liberating that country, but we can’t even elect a black president.”
I do not think that this was an excuse for me. To be sure, it is something I will never forget and left me with a chilling feeling about Obama.
You are right though, I will vote for president, not a black one, not a white one, not a green one, not a purple one. I will vote for the person I think and feel will represent us all on the world stage and at home.

Posted by: countallthevotes | April 23, 2008, 2:45 pm 2:45 pm

Hillary not a fighter this country is just racist. A black men has to go above and beyond to become President. Hillary is a women but she is a white women even during the 60′s they could sit at table with oher white people and eat whiles black couldn’t. Hillary still has advantage over white votes. Hell she’s not a fighter. This country is just still racist.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 2:45 pm 2:45 pm

Of course it left you chilling your people didn’t come to this and got enslaved.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 2:48 pm 2:48 pm

On November 4 there will be no super delegates, no caucuses, no national popular vote; winner takes all in virtually every state. Florida and Michigan will have their electoral votes fully intact. Unless the democrats arrange full primaries in both Florida and Michigan, their nominee will not have full legitimacy and John McCain can start picking his cabinet now.

Posted by: Josh | April 23, 2008, 2:48 pm 2:48 pm

And yes Steve cheer on you think the economy has lapse while wait until they try to steal the nominee from Obama. Yes African American are in the Senate, Congress and have billions of dollars now. Not to mention superstars basketball players, football players. Yeah Steve Let’s wait and see.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 2:49 pm 2:49 pm

Betty you letter seems to be written to try and force whites to vote for Obama. In the same manner that you are saying blacks have a right to vote for a black candidate, it is the same way whites have the right to vote for a white candidate for their choice as president.
You say the system is unfair, unfair in what manner are white not voting for Obama, also the polls are clearly showing that the majority of blacks are not voting for Hillary, so should white be now calling for a boycott because too many blacks are voting for Obama?

Posted by: SJ | April 23, 2008, 2:52 pm 2:52 pm

jgaw,
Thank God for you. I just don’t know how to put into words how upsetting it is for me to read Betty’s open letter.
While I focused on Rev. Wright because that was the most outrageous thing in my mind, I really decided a very long time ago to support Hillary Clinton. It had everything to do with experience, judgement and being vetted. I had done much of my own research on Obama and TUCC and Ayres and Harvard Law School so I knew more than most. Obama was way to new and had too many unclear associations with people who could be construed as un-American. I have never felt comfortable with his politics and probably never will.

Posted by: countallthevotes | April 23, 2008, 2:53 pm 2:53 pm

African Americans should boycott the election and lets see where this country will go. I guarantee things will turn around quick.
A civil rights movement is coming. And those who think that African American don’t have any power like the past well think again.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 2:53 pm 2:53 pm

99% of AA are voting against Hillary, I don’t like that am going to start calling for a boycott myself.

Posted by: SJ | April 23, 2008, 2:54 pm 2:54 pm

betty,
I agree that a black person has to be twice as good to get half as far as a white person in this country.
but here is the deal
obama is not half as smart as sen. clinton.
she runs circles around him and mccain on the issues that face us today.
if sen. obama were half as smart as sen. clinton-I would give him my vote just to help his chances. because I too
would love to see a person of color as president before I die.
but he is not the one.
we have many aa politician coming up in the ranks that are more qualified that obama.
I hope black people will think about this and vote their interest-obama did not attend the state of the black union
to try to find out about the issues that concern black people-every since
this program has been going on the presidental candidates have appeared there-until obama-
just because his skin is brown does not (and should not) mean black people will get any special treatment from him
(and they should not-he should be the president of all people)
and therefore he should have been vetted just like any other candidate.
and he has not been.
black people should think about this and vote their economic interest.
that would be a vote for Sen. clinton

Posted by: jgaw | April 23, 2008, 2:56 pm 2:56 pm

betty
because it is such a strong issue to you (and to some extent I understand …I am willing to tell all the youth (under 40 crowd that also voted strongly for Obama consistently) to say vote for McCain… I worry that the economy will go down the tubes but if Hillary supporters put her nomination ahead of the party and the country and her ethics and (the wholly c**p Iran stance andumbrella)I think she should definitively not be President.
Sometimes the only way to rid yourself of a virus (especially one that has lasted for 15 years) is to take a hit.
If she was elected nothing will change (she’s now handed the change mantra to McCain if she took obama down) and I can tell you the rest of the world would be further away from us than we will be even if McCain won. At least McCain is on video saying he didn’t agree with Bush when we were going in about how he was doing it.
Hillary just didn’t say anything until the polls said it was okay to come out against it.
You know wouldn’t want to seem unpatriotic when other politicians were accusing people of such…I mean she could have been tarred and feathered…for goodness sake and ruined her plans to run for President…

Posted by: dl | April 23, 2008, 2:57 pm 2:57 pm

White candidate has been elected for over a hundred years. .Never a black candidate for President. Why because most whites will not vote for a black men. I’m glad that African Americans is taking a stand and voting for Obama. Its time we stood up and not feel we have to go the white way. But we need to do more we need a civil rights movement.Because if we let them get away with doing this to Obama they will do it again and again. And Hispanic please wake because you guys will get the same treatment. Why do you think Bill Richardson endorsed Obama.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 2:57 pm 2:57 pm

Sorry but I cant base my vote on some kind of token favor because I want to see a AA as president.
The USA has a lot of other races that make up this melting pot so if I look at it that way, why cant we have a Chinese, Indian, Mexican or Native American as President?
I am voting for who I feel can do a better job as president at the moment I believe that Hillary can, and that has nothing to do with her racial makeup, I just feel she is the best candidate for this job.

Posted by: SJ | April 23, 2008, 3:01 pm 3:01 pm

Your listening. Trust me blogs do get around..I’m going to try to run a ad in the NEW YORK TIMES. Its time African Americans
started a civils rights movement..
No OBAMA NO VOTE

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 3:03 pm 3:03 pm

betty,
Is healthcare, the economy, and affordable college an issues for you or anyone in your family?
would you just want the black man to be given the presidency?-just because he is black?
Please go back and read no study the black man’ plan and sen. clinton plan.
and then see if the black man is the one
YOU need in the white house working for YOU.
I know not-I have studied obama and clintons plan-and he cannot do it.
obama is not the one

Posted by: jgaw | April 23, 2008, 3:05 pm 3:05 pm

Betty so what do you say about all the AA that are supporting Hillary and going all over the place with her? It would be interesting to hear your views on that one

Posted by: SJ | April 23, 2008, 3:07 pm 3:07 pm

I’m not asking African American to boycott just because of Obama ..NO but this situation calls for a BOYCOTT.
They will do it again and again..A hispanic can not be president nor asian nor indian who gosh got their land stolen..
No only white men..white men only club
WELL ITS TIME FOR A CHANGE

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 3:08 pm 3:08 pm

Betty you are losing me, Obama is getting white votes, he is getting white endowments so what situation are you speaking about??

Posted by: SJ | April 23, 2008, 3:12 pm 3:12 pm

The majority of voters in American are white voters. Republicans would never be able to win the President seat if they didn’t get these votes. They certainly don’t rely on the Black vote, but the problems is that American never had a Black President in mind. We don’t have a system set up for the black candidate. There are alot of white people who can be racist with no consequences. thats because of slavery. And in order to change this mindset that the black vote don’t count and that we can just dismiss a black candidate needs to change. And so we need to boycott.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 3:15 pm 3:15 pm

Hillary can only win unless she steals or takes it from OBAMA AND YOU WILL SEE A BOYCOTT LIKE NEVER BEFORE

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 3:17 pm 3:17 pm

Ob Betty carry on!!! Good luck girl

Posted by: SJ | April 23, 2008, 3:19 pm 3:19 pm

I really don’t care how you view it. White people have had the upper hand for years and still do. So yes there are alot of white voting for Obama because they see him as the best candidate and they know of the mistreatment of African Americans in this country. They want to see real change. So say what you want, but racism is a fact in this country. Its the underling issue that Republican use and Hillary. Its the underlining issue of the race for the White House and boycotting will send a clear message..We not going to let the white racism stop our first black president.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 3:21 pm 3:21 pm

Jennifer — I don’t think the super-delegates care much about your cheer leading. In fact, I don’t think they care much about you. Or any voter personally. They’re in it for themselves and use their status to increase their stature. Altruists, they’re not.

Posted by: Aston | April 23, 2008, 3:21 pm 3:21 pm

black people will not get the upper hand by electing obama
I suggest you go back and try and vote your intrest by voting for sen. clinton.
the only way black people will get anything of worth is to earn it.
sen. obama should not be given the nomination just because he is black
he needs to go back to chicago and work some more for the people of ill.

Posted by: jgaw | April 23, 2008, 3:28 pm 3:28 pm

Betty–A black president will never happen in this country if every black acts like you. Do you realize that you are not helping Obama here but rather hurting him?

Posted by: Jane | April 23, 2008, 3:32 pm 3:32 pm

Jane
I’m not hurting Obama I want a boycott because in the end there will be another Obama or hispanic running for President who will get treated the same way. Who whites will find any reason to not elect them not because they are not qualified, but because of RACE.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 3:35 pm 3:35 pm

This is so weird that Bill Clinton was once looked upon to African American as the first black president and his wife Hillary Clinton will go down in history as the person who tried to steal the election away from the actual first black president.
WOW

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 3:39 pm 3:39 pm

Betty–That is what I wondered too. Bill Clinton was thought to be the first black president and he was called racial now.

Posted by: Jane | April 23, 2008, 3:45 pm 3:45 pm

Betty,
Obama is unqualifed and unpatriotic. He has been treated with kid gloves by the media. If you really want a black President you need to have someone qualified and not a far left elitist run. That is why Jackie Robinson was brought up. that is why Inchiro Suzuzi was brought in. They paved the way for black and Japanese players because of their quality.
You want to know why Obama lost MA despite Kennedy-it is because of the poor performance of the corrupt Deval Patrick.

Posted by: geevill | April 23, 2008, 3:47 pm 3:47 pm

Thats the problem no black men can be qualified enough. There will always be something always be issue brought up by white people always..so now we boycott.
Its going to be the 60′s all over again

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 3:49 pm 3:49 pm

Geevil, what is your definition of unpatriotic? Not wearing a flag pin?

Posted by: Jason | April 23, 2008, 3:49 pm 3:49 pm

THIS IS THE SORT OF MISCACULATION THAT REMINDS JUST WHY I WILLN’T BE VOTEING FOR HILLARY CLINTON , DECEPSTION AND LIES

Posted by: DIMPLES | April 23, 2008, 3:50 pm 3:50 pm

Doug,
Substantial numbers of people in states that have already voted would like their votes back.
That’s what happens when the DNC allows an inexperienced, unvetted candidate.

Posted by: nana m. | April 23, 2008, 3:53 pm 3:53 pm

Jane read his post again if its still there..He did call Obama racist.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 3:57 pm 3:57 pm

AND Another thing Jane..
racist is not what I’m NO what I’m is telling it like it is……

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 3:58 pm 3:58 pm

Don’t forget Hillary. As a female, you should know better how hard this world treats woman.

Posted by: Jane | April 23, 2008, 3:58 pm 3:58 pm

Jane Hillary is white. and as proven in Ohio and Penn white people would rather vote for a vote woman than a black man..
Yes thats real hard

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 4:01 pm 4:01 pm

Look the media talks about how Hillary is a fighter and so on, but the truth of all of this is that this country is still very racist.
A black man can’t just go in and be President no not like a white man. No he has to jump over hoops and spin around .. and bounce and everything else..

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 4:03 pm 4:03 pm

Look the media talks about how Hillary is a fighter and so on, but the truth of all of this is that this country is still very racist.
A black man can’t just go in and be President no not like a white man. No he has to jump over hoops and spin around .. and bounce and everything else..
No he can’t have a Rev Wright, but white man can have Jerry Farewell.
No he can’t have a bitter comment,
But white woman Hillary can lie about Bosnia.
No he can’t speak about Hope because let’s face it a black has no HOPE
YES there is certainly something wrong with this picture..hmmm
it smells like racism.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 4:07 pm 4:07 pm

William ayers has nothing to do with Obama just another reason not to vote for a black man..
Unbelievable.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 4:14 pm 4:14 pm

Besides you can bring William Ayers who has nothing to do with Obama, Rev Wright and the bitter comment and nothing i said nothing could compare to Bill and Hillary shady past. You see that’s what Obama should be focus on The Clinton shady dealings. Anything that Obama is accussed of well the Clinton has it 50 millions times over..So OBAMA IF YOU HAVE ANYONE FROM YOUR CAMP READING BLOGS GO AFTER THEM.. THE CLINTONS SHADY PAST NEEDS TO BROUGHT BACK TO LIGHT..
REPUBLICANS LOVE THAT.

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 4:17 pm 4:17 pm

The Washington Post reports today that Terry McAuliffe, after hearing CNN’s poll results, ran over to Fox News immediately to announce Clinton a winner. Is Faux News the new Clinton cable channel as well as Senator Obama’s opponent, John McCain’s? McAuliffe kept stressing how they are counting Florida. Did I miss something? Didn’t the Clintons agree to the rules of the DNC as the other candidates did? Does this mean that the Clintons get to make the rules as we go along? The Clintons have overturned every smidgen of what I believe the Democratic Party should be about. Was John Stewart right that HRC will still be running when Obama is sworn in? Talk about Washington corrupting people! I think Bill and Hillary are the perfect example.

Posted by: dixieluke | April 23, 2008, 4:24 pm 4:24 pm

Welcome to the “Win at ALL Costs” Hillary World. You think she’s lying and cheating now, just think of what her White House will look like.
Indiana and North Carolina, you can put a stop to this nonsense.

Posted by: Suzanne | April 23, 2008, 4:25 pm 4:25 pm

Betty
Keep dreaming just like OBAMA !

Posted by: Steve Moore | April 23, 2008, 4:31 pm 4:31 pm

Nana M,
I had the right to take my vote back at my County Convention. I was an Edwards delegate and took back my vote and gave it to Obama. This was on March 15th during the peak of the Rev. Wright faux “scandal”. In fact Obama picked up 10 more delegates that day in Iowa.

Posted by: Progressive Democrat | April 23, 2008, 4:33 pm 4:33 pm

A boycott would send a strong message.
Look not everyone would want to boycott, but African Americans who have the resources I feel should make it clear we are not going to stand for racism anymore.
take it or leave it.
I WILL CONT TO PURSUE THIS PROCESS

Posted by: betty | April 23, 2008, 4:36 pm 4:36 pm

The numbers are pretty convincing. Mr. Obama will be the nominee. Race and gender will continue to be the regular topic on blogs and talk shows. The Democrat Party will be managed by the wealthy left wing. It will be very hard for Mr. Obama to win the GE. It’s very disappointing.

Posted by: texasdemocrat | April 23, 2008, 4:42 pm 4:42 pm

Betty,
I don’t like Obama as our next president. I don’t think it is racism. Hillary Clinton speaks to my issues. She has the best plan to stem the housing/foreclosure crisis. She has the best plan for educational loans and loan forgiveness through public interest service. She has the best plan for health care as it includes everyone, even working class people. She has the tenacity, strength and intelligence that I look for in a leader.

Posted by: countallthevotes | April 23, 2008, 4:44 pm 4:44 pm

Over the weekend polls were taken in several states that had early primaries that Obama won. When these voters were asked if they would vote for Obama again, over 15% said no. They stated they had not been given the true facts about the man.
It is a shame that the prior debates did not bring out the REAL OBAMA. He doesn’t look so good now with truths out.Voters were suckered.

Posted by: Mary | April 23, 2008, 5:12 pm 5:12 pm

The sad thing is the media eats it up. How about giving the truth about how well he has really done
He is fighting a 1 vs 5 fight
He is fighting Sen Clinton, Sen McCain, Pres Clinton, the entire republician party and MSM
Seriously think about it. He should of out of this race a long time ago and he is BEATING HER

Posted by: tr | April 23, 2008, 5:34 pm 5:34 pm

Clinton Continues Dishonest CampaignThis Time Misrepresenting ABC News

Being far behind Obama by any meaningful measure, the Clinton campaign continues to twist reports to try to claim a lead. They are again stressing popular vote, despite actually being behind. Jake Tapper writes that in making this claim Clinton Camp Mi…

Posted by: Liberal Values | April 23, 2008, 5:35 pm 5:35 pm

If “polls” were taken over the weekend showing that people regretted voting for Obama, why are his national polling numbers (~10%) greater than his national vote lead (~1 – 3%)? Doesn’t that indicate that more people regret voting for Hillary?

Posted by: Greg | April 23, 2008, 5:35 pm 5:35 pm

Just another example of ABC trying to play with the numbers to make a headline and the Clinton camp taking this and running with it. I’m not sure who’s more pathetic, ABC or the Clintons.

Posted by: bud | April 23, 2008, 6:11 pm 6:11 pm

Of course the Clintons have problems with facts. What’s new about that?

Posted by: S. Mill | April 23, 2008, 6:22 pm 6:22 pm

If you factor in the caucus states by assigning a voter number to each national delegate, probably 15 or 20, then Obama is ahead by over a million

Posted by: dell | April 23, 2008, 6:26 pm 6:26 pm

no worries betty…whats that saying..
“you dont miss a good thing till its gone?” People fail to realize, Blacks are not going to vote for a Clinton-ever again. We gave them 80-90% of our vote in 92-96…one one owes the Clintons anything-especially after how they have run this campaign.

Posted by: shelly | April 23, 2008, 6:29 pm 6:29 pm

Whatever the outcome, neither Hilary nor Obama can claim a mantle of legitimacy.
I wish Obama and his supporters would stop arguing they have a lock on the nomination because they have won the popular vote or have the most delegates.
This bears repeating: Obama has only won the most popular votes and the most delegates from among a restricted sub-group of Democrats whose votes are being counted.
The DNC has two ways have determining its candidate for presidency:
1. it allows the popular vote through elections held in 50 states to determine the outcome. If one or another candidate can garner enough delegates, that candidate becomes the de facto nominee.
2. If no candidate wins the popular vote outright, then it leaves it up to superdelegates to determine – in light of this uncertainty – which candidate has the best chances of winning the national election.
NEITHER Barack or Hilary can claim they have won the popular vote or the most delegates from the entire population, since Michigan and Florida never held proper elections. Who wactually would have won the popular vote will always remain uncertain. We WILL NEVER KNOW, since we never held a proper vote.
We should frankly go to option 2 and let the superdelegates make up their minds and choose the best candidate to win the national election – with a clear conscience.
Now here’s the twist. I actual support Barack Obama, and would have voted for him in the Michigan primary. But I am tired of people trashing Hilary. For all we know, if proper elections had been held in Michigan and Florida, she would in fact have won more votes and more delegatese than Barack.

Posted by: John | April 23, 2008, 7:10 pm 7:10 pm

“Nor does anybody talk about how Obama has between around 51% of the total vote yet has around 56 to 57% of the delegate count. Why is that fair?”
It’s not fair in the concept of straight voting but is fair in a system designed to address differences in demography and regional proportion. It is also not fair to imply that it is somehow Obama’s fault.
As to Hillary’s lost momentum, you can’t have momentum when an event never happened. It’s just as imaginary as Hillay being under sniper fire in Bosnia. Florida and Michigan violate DNC rules-not Obama’s rules but DNC rules. Hillary agreed to those rules before the primary season started.

Posted by: BobW | April 23, 2008, 7:29 pm 7:29 pm

To John,
Candidate Clinton hasn’t won more popular votes.
Candidate Clinton and ABC are counting 320,000 votes for Clinton in Michigan and ZERO for Obama. They aren’t including the 230,000 uncommitted votes.
The popular vote isn’t including the votes from washington state, nevada, iowa, or colorodo. Those caucus states aren’t releaseing their vote tallies.
Candidate Clinton said Michigan shouldn’t count. Candidate Clinton wouldn’t run another election in michigan if independents could vote. Candidate Clinton loses by 9 points to mccain in michigan.
In a real election Obama would have won Michigan. Michigan is much more upper midwest and well educated like Wisconsin. It would have been a good obama state.
Clinton that lying fraud said Michigan shouldn’t count and it didn’t make a difference if her name stayed on the ballot. Now she is giving Obama no votes for michigan and not including 4 caucus states.
The popular vote count is also wrong because Obama is very strong in the west. The west had caucuses. If they had primaries his popular vote margin spread would have been much larger.
Candidate Clinton is very weak in the northwest, mountain west, and upper midwest.
Media doesn’t focus on her weakness in washinigton state, colorodo, oregon, minnesota, iowa, wisconsin.
I am sick and tired of the media’s east coast bias.
Clinton would be getting destroyed in the popular vote if the states out west had primaries. Obama would have huge popular vote margins.
Before super tuesday Obama has been generally on top of candidate clinton by over 10 percent.
Clinton and her comments about southern whites got no attention.
The media is in the bag for their dynasty clinton.

Posted by: Jennifer | April 23, 2008, 8:09 pm 8:09 pm

To alessandro Machi, Clinton would not have won michigan in a real election.
Obama wasn’t on the ballots and independents voted in the gop primary.
Clinton is running 9 percent behind Mccain in michigan while Obama is running 2 percent ahead.
McCain is ahead of candidate Clinton 46-37 in Michigan.
Granholm moved the primary up before colleges were in session.
Michigan is much more upper midwest and well educated with huge campuses.
She would have lost michigan in a real election.
Polls showed Obama up 8 percent over candidate clinton in a real election.
Clinton is a lying fraud. Her supporters like liars. They are like peasants that want to be lied to by the great queen of the dynasty.

Posted by: Jennifer | April 23, 2008, 8:12 pm 8:12 pm

“Betty,
I don’t like Obama as our next president. I don’t think it is racism.”
Well Betty, when you know for certain, be sure and let us know.
Thanks.

Posted by: C Jeff | April 23, 2008, 8:14 pm 8:14 pm

The popular vote theory is flawed.
The popular vote is not including washington state, nevada, colorodo, or iowa because those caucus states don’t allow their voter tallies released
Clinton is excluding those 4 states.
The popular vote theory is flawed because Obama’s strongest region is out west where they had caucuses not primaries.
Obama would have had big popular vote margins if iowa had a primary, if colorodo had a primary. If Minnesota had a primary.
Clinton is very weak west of the mississippi. Her old school uninspring personality hurts her out west.
Obama would be crushing her in the popular vote if his strongest states had primaries where his popular vote margin would be bigger.
Clinton is saying Obama should get no votes from Michigan. That she shut him out 320,000 to ZERO. Those black voters in detroit who voted uncommitted shouldn’t count. Those 230,000 votes shouldn’t count.
Candidate Clinton has no chance for the nomination. The math is against her.
The greatest day will be august 28th when candidate Clinton cries that she lost. She is a power hungry lying fraud.

Posted by: Jennifer | April 23, 2008, 8:21 pm 8:21 pm

This election will simply have to run its course. The numbers aren’t foreign to Hillary. What we have are people who understand the facts/numbers and those who do not. What’s really ironic is how comfortable the Clinton supporters are with ignoring the candidate with the most pledged delegates, popular votes and wins. I’m quite sure many of these so-called “Democrats” were crying in their beer when Gore lost.
The million dollar question is what is behind Hillary’s effort? Is it because she wants to win badly or is she afraid that Obama will beat McCain and possibly be President for 8 years? Hillary would be in her 70s by then. This “election” of hers is nothing more than a plan to poison pill Obama. She wants to be President but lost this election. What she needs is for McCain to win so that she doesn’t have to challenge an incumbent. Too bad thousands of her supporters are still focusing on lapel pins and such.

Posted by: Dems | April 23, 2008, 9:00 pm 9:00 pm

Why dignify the ‘rogue state’ tally by including it at all? Such concern for
putative ‘balance’ requires an inadequate concern for the real meaning of what’s being reported, and is a serious disease in modern American journalism. Or perhaps it’s one of the other banes of our media today, an undue desire to stoke the fires for controversy.

Posted by: John | April 23, 2008, 9:07 pm 9:07 pm

Yea, let’s not count Florida or Michigan. It’s not like their votes will be counted in the general election, right?
Oh wait.
Well, it’s not like the Democrats care about winning the general election, right?

Posted by: Evie | April 23, 2008, 9:54 pm 9:54 pm

tr that is more truth than I have heard in months. True, True.

Posted by: Dee, Washington, DC | April 23, 2008, 9:57 pm 9:57 pm

Jake, I was very, and I repeat, very impressed with CG on WNT Weds’cast.
Though they could have played everyone’s ‘gotcha of the day’ – especially this one, CG avoided it. Even in a piece where the opportunity arose.
Or I’ll tune in tomorrow and hear about all the gotchas they didn’t use today!

Posted by: kravitz | April 23, 2008, 10:44 pm 10:44 pm

Okay, now I am annoyed!
I was on last night and saw that blog, and it cheered me up as I imagine it did to whoever saw it in the Clinton campaign. Do you not think it possible that, hmmmm I don’t know, maybe they did read it this morning, even though you wrote it last night. I mean it WAS still there this morning, I saw it again.
Also, isn’t the number you have had posted and did update as well, reporting???
I would have called anything you have as a measure, vote count, delegate count, etc. as reporting. I don’t need a sentence to go with it. You posted it as a number, thus it was reported.
I am just a voter in Oregon, but come on, be fair. Nowhere in their quote do they quote a person.
Are you really being fair???
I think not

Posted by: drae | April 23, 2008, 10:50 pm 10:50 pm

Everyone who has any interest in politics has known how you were “reporting” the vote count.
You owe Ms. Clinton a formal apology for this story of non news and your misunderstanding and if you want to say so your mistake with the count. It was posted. That’s on you.

Posted by: drae | April 23, 2008, 10:59 pm 10:59 pm

If you look at the polling numbers for states that Hillary won in early primaries, such as California, you will see that Obama is now polling much higher than Clinton.
So that argument goes both ways.

Posted by: nandssmith | April 23, 2008, 11:50 pm 11:50 pm

Crazy Clintonian Spin continues – first after IOWA it was all about delegates, then race, then caucuses dont count, then super delegates can over ride delegates, then small states dont count, then even after signing/agreeing to not to count / contest Michigan and Florida – start raising ‘count the votes’ argument, then complain about media, then spin the media (SNL & ABC debate) and then say any one who complains about media / hard questions should get out, then its about popular vote, lies and spin will continue because Clintons feel that they are entitled to rule this great nation! In the process if party, democracy and will of the people gets crushed – who cares when we have fans who can hate others! And party leaders as well as media folks but their ever changing arguments and help it in many ways! For example Clinton’s win is not 10% but everyone felt by sounding 2-digit win they can project a better story – American public believes everything that TV/Internet/Newspapers tell them – just like justification for Iraq War – they have bought it and will continue to do so :(

Posted by: SKumar, Memphis | April 24, 2008, 12:21 am 12:21 am

If Hillary’s lips move, she is lying.

Posted by: rhbate | April 24, 2008, 12:31 am 12:31 am

Yes-Jane–Hillary claims that she is being mis-treated because she is a female.And she is milking that for all it is worth.—But let Obama even hint that he is being mis-treated because he is black–and he is accused of playing the race card.

Posted by: orange cat | April 24, 2008, 12:31 am 12:31 am

How does the Democratic Party leave Michigan and Florida out??? Why does the media let Obama get away with blocking revotes? The media’s bias that causes them to side with Obama’s position is just wrong for voters in those states. How can Guam get a say and not Michigan and Florida??? Obama will lose a General.

Posted by: Harley. | April 24, 2008, 12:42 am 12:42 am

Well Harley …. its because all the democratic candidates signed pledges to agree to not including Michigan and Florida. They attempted to reschedule their primaries without consent from the party, the reprecussions of that was being stripped of their delegates.
In case you haven’t read a single news story about this for the past 6 months, Hillary Clinton agreed to these rules, and in fact strategized around it.
Here’s Hillary on New Hampshire Public Radio, October 11th … “You know its clear, in this election, they’re not going to count for anything”.
If it was clear then, why not now ?

Posted by: Unda | April 24, 2008, 1:23 am 1:23 am

Harley, i find your logic lacking. You try, as the Clinton’s have tried, to lie about Obama. Obama is not “blocking” anything. Just as they lied and said he was going negative. Just as Hillary LIED about smipers in Bosnia. Please try and tell the truth, if you Clinton supporters know what the truth is.
Lastly if the republicans are telling you to vote for Hillary, then i guess they think she definatly can beat McCain huh? Makes so much sense my head is going to explode.

Posted by: Andy | April 24, 2008, 1:38 am 1:38 am

Reuters, 1/31/08
“It’s useful to win states, but states don’t vote—delegates do,” said Harold Ickes, who is heading up the delegate operation for New York Sen. Hillary Clinton…”This is very much a race for delegates at this point.”
Howard Dean, 3/6/08 (AP):
“The rules were set a year and a half ago,” Dean said. “Florida and Michigan voted for them, then decided that they didn’t need to abide by the rules. Well, when you are in a contest you do need to abide by the rules. Everybody has to play by the rules out of respect for both campaigns and the other 48 states.”
Yes, the MI/FL voters are not directly responsible, but their respective governors and legislatures are wholly responsible for violating DNC rules. The leadership (for lack of a better word) knew the consequences and chose to play chicken. (And the Democrats in the FL legislature voted almost unanimously to support the early primary date, so don’t blame the Republicans.)
All the candidates signed pledges to abide by the rules, even HRC. Most took their names off the Michigan ballot, and the Clinton campaign said there were logistical issues, “the letter got lost,” and that’s why her name wasn’t taken off. Florida did not allow the candidates to take their names off. Now consider:
HRC on New Hampshire Public Radio’s show, The Exchange, 10/10/07
NHPR: So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I’m off the ballot?”
CLINTON: “It’s clear, this election they’re having is not going to count for anything.”
Top Clinton campaign advisor ICKES:
As a DNC Committee member, he voted last year to strip the two states of their delegates, “to prevent the gaming of the system.”
Now he supports seating the delegates. “When I voted on the Rules and Bylaws Committee, I did that as a member of the Rules and Bylaws Committee, not as a member of the Hillary Clinton campaign.”
Clinton campaign advisor McCAULIFFE now argues for seating the FL and MI delegates. But in 2004, as head of the DNC, when MI threatened to hold an early vote he said, “Move your primary too early, and Michigan will lose half its delegates to the 2004 Democratic convention. The closest they’ll get to Boston will be watching it on television. I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state. The rules are the rules.”
And yet Clinton and her campaign have vowed to take this contest to the convention floor to settle FL and MI if the delegates are not seated per the January votes.
Give me a break—does she really think Obama got ZERO votes in MI? Can she actually say this with a straight face? Does she really think Obama would not have at least closed the gap in FL had they campaigned? This behavior is the height of hypocrisy!
And the height of cynicism is how Clinton and her surrogates are fomenting the voters’ anger about “disenfranchisement” and pointed their collective finger at Howard Dean and, most absurdly, at Obama.
Huh? What’d Obama do wrong? Be respectful of, strategize by, and compete by the agreed-upon rules? He has said he’d abide by what the DNC decides. Early on, he proposed seating the delegates 50/50, or in some way that didn’t determine the outcome. Delegations would be seated but there’d still be a negative consequence for the rule-breaking.
It’s not surprising that the Clinton campaign said no; their aim is not “enfranchisement.” She wants to game the system for more votes—the only way she can win.
Talk about poisoning the well for Obama when he’s the nominee! How can anyone respect this behavior? If Clinton is willing to disrespect her fellow candidate and her own Party, and if she’s willing to break the rules and cheat to win the nomination, how much more abuse of power can we expect down the line? I, for one, do not want to find out.

Posted by: JustConsider | April 24, 2008, 1:50 am 1:50 am

Delegates cont and popular vote counts. Superdelegates will decide. What some people is confused about is with the general election. Electoral votes count not quantity ofstates, and Hillary Clinton has won the sates with more electoral votes, Obama has not won one single big state with importanat number of electoral votes. Obama is unelectable

Posted by: Libre | April 24, 2008, 3:17 am 3:17 am

ABC has misrepresented everyting Hillary or Bill Clinton say. They are trying to push Obama as the Democrat nominee to favor the Republicans they fear Senator Clinton but they know that Obama does not have a chance against McCain.

Posted by: Libre | April 24, 2008, 3:20 am 3:20 am

It is foolish to believe that Hillary Clinton does not have a chance to win the nomination. If that were true there wouln’dnt be a race anymore and superdelegates would have pronouced already. Obama is unelectable. the popular vote and superdelegates will decide the nomination in favor of Hillary Clinton. Only chance to take the Republicans out of the White House. ABC and all the media orchaestrated by the Republicans won’t stop Senator Clinton. She won’t back down.

Posted by: Libre | April 24, 2008, 3:25 am 3:25 am

What about the caucus states? Do they “suddenly” not count? (The Clinton campaign has been ignoring them since they started losing them.)
Last I knew, the “popular vote” is only applicable to a general election where there are no caucuses.

Posted by: EG | April 24, 2008, 4:53 am 4:53 am

You sound indignant, to discover that the Clintons would spin and lie; why? – that’s all they’ve done this campaign, that is all they seem to understand. “Say anything, believe nothing:” the Clinton code of ethics – and why every campaign promise she makes is pointless dribble. “Well, all politicians do this” – no, they don’t; until Bush II most of our presidents could be held accountable for their elections. Clinton has already made it clear she intends to continue an imperial presidency and do what she likes in office. That means we cannot allow her back into the White House, and would need to impeach her if gets there.

Posted by: Emmanuel Winner | April 24, 2008, 7:09 am 7:09 am

Libre must be living in a confused dimension by saying that Obama is unelectable!! So who has been voting for him all this time, such that he has an insurmountable lead over lying crying hideous Hillary Clinton? Get real for once in your miserable life!

Posted by: DrCahill | April 24, 2008, 8:19 am 8:19 am

How do you count the caucus votes? Especially where there is NO evidence of the raw vote tally? Do you just “estimate” the vote? Do you use the Washington state beauty contest vote or the “estimate” for the caucus? The difference is about 50,000 extra votes for Obama if you use the caucus estimate.
Overall the caucus “estimates” might add an additional 100,000 votes to Obama’s total.
So how you can discount Florida where everybody was on the ballot and no one campaigned but yet except “estimates” for caucus states is beyond me.

Posted by: Wayne Michel | April 24, 2008, 8:27 am 8:27 am

ABC you gave her a forum in the last debate.
As Dr. Phil says “If they’ll do it with you, they’ll do it to you.”
You haven’t seen anything yet with this runaway train of a no conscience, all denial, opportunistic, “me me me” “mine mine mine” candidate. This great personality has run off the track into the ditch of blind ambition and there’s no moral compass and there’s no truth.
It will be a worse tragedy to watch such a pathology play itself out in the White House than to let her down gently now. Or not gently.
The superdelegates need to choose wisely and not from pity for a great talent run amuck.

Posted by: Gaias Child | April 24, 2008, 9:39 am 9:39 am

Caucueses – they count the votes there so lets say 50 people show up for a caucus 30 got to Obama and 20 go to Hilary, well the popular vote would be the 30 – 20.
All it is ballots given and people discuss the voting, but they still get a people count on the vote!

Posted by: spock | April 24, 2008, 10:02 am 10:02 am

If the measures relevant to the general election are considered – electoral college votes and winner-take-all logic and popular vote count – Clinton is clearly the stronger candidate to go up against John McCain. Add to this the realities of Obama’s demographic performance and his associations it looks improbable that Obama can defeat McCain. Clinton, on the other hand, is competitive against McCain.
The party elders – who seem to be walking in a fog – need to wake up and ask themselves a straightforward question: “Do we want to win the White House?” If that’s the question they ask, Clinton will be the nominee. The question, “We just need to count the delegates,” is political suicide.

Posted by: Andrew Austin | April 24, 2008, 10:09 am 10:09 am

Rick,
It’s hardly fair to cry fowl on the Clinton Campaign when ABC on its Politics page lists the popular vote WITH Michigan and Florida (and without). By even listing it with, you give it credence. Therefore, Clinton has every right to tout it, since you shout it.
Frankly, the DNC ruled these contests could not be counted, Obama wasn’t on one of the ballots—there is nothing remotely FAIR about them and yet, you count them. That’s like saying, as one respondent has pointed out, that’s like including the government-stuffed ballot box in a communist election. It’s illegal, not democratic. If I were teaching students and said that these assignments didn’t count, and my students did no other work, then Iwouldn’t expect them to pass. I sure wouldn’t expect them to say “If you count assignments you said you wouldn’t count, I’d get an A”
Why are you perpetuating a lie? The DNC, the candidates–all agreed these didn’t count before—why should anyone reconsider, even in Fantasy Politics?

Posted by: Jerome | April 24, 2008, 1:27 pm 1:27 pm

The popular vote is a farce. The caucus states do not count by popular vote so the very idea that anyone can use them as a measurement is absurd.
Neither Michigan nor Florida should be shown in any totals. By the rules that the party and each candidate pledged to follow the elections were not binding.
It is ridiculous that the Clintons are changing rules to suit them and having the media bow to their tactics.

Posted by: Terri | April 24, 2008, 1:58 pm 1:58 pm

HRC cannot mathematically beat Obama and therefore should not get ANY super delegate votes. At this point her ONLY plan is to somehow damage the Dem Party and Obama enough to the point where Obama loses the general election (impossible) and she runs in 2012. Even the Rep party is afraid of an Obama nomination, hence the Rovian/Limbaugh push for Rep party members to vote for HRC. If she had any moral compass what so ever she would “gracefully” bow out now and put her support behind the PEOPLE’S Choice.
The rules to which HRC agreed to were in place over a year ago and now that she is losing she wants to break those rules. In my mind she should have been disqualified from the entire primary process by cheating when she allowed her name to go on the ballot in Michigan. At this point she sounds like a spoiled child who isn’t (and frankly shouldn’t) getting her way. If you want to count Florida and Mich. make it a 50/50 split and be done with it.

Posted by: Stormkrow | April 24, 2008, 2:30 pm 2:30 pm

If popular vote mattered at all, we’d be finishing up the end of Gore’s second term. Popular vote is only important when you have NOTHING else to go on.

Posted by: BJ | April 24, 2008, 2:42 pm 2:42 pm

Double digit win? 9.2 rounds down to 9, not up to 10… You must be using the same abacus as Clinton.

Posted by: dan | April 24, 2008, 2:51 pm 2:51 pm

For those who are either mathematically challenged or inclined to hyperbole, Mrs. Clinton didn’t win Philadelphia by “double digits”. The margin (with 99% of the precincts reporting) is 9.3%.

Posted by: alex | April 24, 2008, 2:56 pm 2:56 pm

After the ABC-hosted PA “debate”, I find it hard to believe that ABC is not directly supporting Clinton’s ridiculous position regarding the popular vote count.

Posted by: 2whomITmayCONCERN | April 24, 2008, 2:59 pm 2:59 pm

Um.. way ahead? No she wouldn’t. Even if you cheated and counted both Florida and Michigan, which is ludicrous considering Obama and the other Dems didn’t campaign, then Hillary would only be ahead by less than 50 delegates. So let’s not use the Clinton’s skewed math here. As Richardson said so poignantly last night, “whatever it takes to hold on to the throne.” Screw the Clintons, I’m tired of the same old useless politics of promises and no delivery.

Posted by: vninja | April 24, 2008, 3:04 pm 3:04 pm

You can’t exactly call Michigan a victory against Obama when they didn’t even put him on the ballots to begin with.

Posted by: Nick | April 24, 2008, 3:11 pm 3:11 pm

Well, Pennsylvania reports:
Hillary 55%
Obama 45%
10% is double digits as I count it, friends.
Popular vote counts for something. Especially when the popualr vote gives you wins in Ohio, Michigan, Florida…
As for the debate, this is a joke. As if minor “scandals” have not always been part of politics. Bill Clinton had to fight off the Gennifer Flowers accusations in ’92. Gary Hart before him. John Edwards was accused of cheating and getting a woman pregnant. McCain has been accused of cheating. On the eve of the 2000 election was revealed to have had a drunk driving arrest. People love to see politicians squirm, half the time that’s all they care about ’cause it’s how people perform under pressure that influences a lot of voters. Issues are secondary for people who only rely on soundbites.
Politics is just entertainment for most of them so don’t hand me a bunch of crap about how the debate was stupid and unfair. It’s what the sheep-people in most of this country wanted to see so that’s what ABC gave them. If you need proof consider why this was the most talked-about debate of the election. All the others focused on issues, didn’t they? The one that was all about the BS gets alll the attention. Imagine that.

Posted by: Rev.St.Huck | April 24, 2008, 3:13 pm 3:13 pm

In all seriousness, after the completely botched and biased debate, does this network still have a shred of legitimacy?
I would argue that it was the ABC handling of the debate that turned this entire campaign into a three-ring circus. The sad fact is, they’re continuing to do so. Please stop. You’re harming America.

Posted by: Local Man | April 24, 2008, 3:14 pm 3:14 pm

Obama supporters are whiny losers? Pot and kettle supreme from the Clinton camp. Gimme a break pal… no one is buying your snake oil nor are we buying the crap the Clintons are spewing.

Posted by: vninja | April 24, 2008, 3:20 pm 3:20 pm

“yet Obama ran ads on CNN breaking the rules!!”
CNN (television, at least) is a national broadcast network and thus does not support specific localization of markets. So if you’re talking about TV, then no, he did not break the rules. He simply ran national ads.
If Clinton had the money to do so, she would have done the same.

Posted by: Local Man | April 24, 2008, 3:34 pm 3:34 pm

HRC is representative of the “me” generation. The yuppies who grew up selfish and said the hell with the rest of ‘em, I’m only thinking about me. Well, after having that bubble population come through American culture, we got nothing but hell to pay. We live on a bubble economy, the bubble stock market and now the housing bubble. We deserve what we get. It’s our short-sited culture that got us into this mess and we’re not ready to give up our short-sited ways and take our medicine. We want to continue with this false reality of endless freebies w/o really paying for them. Why else would we let ourselves be talked into a war that had no reason for being. I’ve got nothing against any of these people. We’re just getting what we put out there. And we still don’t want to take responsibility for ourselves or our actions.
Good luck!

Posted by: khan | April 24, 2008, 3:44 pm 3:44 pm

Unfortunately for many of us Khan, is the fact that WE didn’t put ourselves on the bubble, the lovely Baby Boomers did. The younger crowd, including myself, are now stuck with the prospects of a failing economy, record oil prices, no social security, etc. So thanks for that… good reason enough not to vote for Clinton, or the status quo.

Posted by: greeny | April 24, 2008, 4:15 pm 4:15 pm

((( “10% is double digits as I count it, friends.” )))
Sorry, Rev.St.Huck, but the actual final numbers were: Clinton, 54.6% and Obama, 45.4%. That’s a difference of 9.2%. In other words, a single-digit win.

Posted by: buddhistMonkey | April 24, 2008, 4:15 pm 4:15 pm

A University of Pennsylvania study conducted before the Penn Primary says that despite the Clinton claim that caucus states are unfair and really aren’t as important as primaries, the rules of caucuses actually HELP her. The raw popular vote in caucuses are not counted, rather each caucus site selects a number of delegates. So the numbers that get reported are only DELEGATES not raw popular vote. If popular votes were figured in ( and this isn’t 100% accurate) the U of Penn estimated that Obama would be ahead by roughly 2 Million votes.
The larger point is that this is exactly why people hate Hillary. She moves the goal posts to suit her notion of victory. She has 0% chance of winning the nomination without forever fracturing the democratic party. Yet she clings to whatever metric that she can spin to justify her staying in the campaign. This is about HER ambition, not the welfare of the people.

Posted by: Matt | April 24, 2008, 4:58 pm 4:58 pm

“This is about HER ambition, not the welfare of the people.”
Oh, that’s rich! As if Obama’s camaign isn’t all about HIS ambition! As if any candidate’s campaign isn’t about their own ambition! But especially these two since they have absolutely ZERO chance or winning in November. If it were about the welfare of the people they would never have gotten into this and let a real candidate win this thing.

Posted by: Rev.St.Huck | April 24, 2008, 5:27 pm 5:27 pm

Does anyone stop and think that if Hillary were elected that would mean that either a Bush or a Clinton would have been president for almost a quarter of a century? How can she call her campaign about change? Of the millions of families in America, there must be someone other than a Bush or a Clinton to hold the highest seat. Having HRC elected would sound more like a monarchy than a democracy.
Besides her spin on the PA results, I love the one about having more experience. By that logic her husband should never have been elected president, I mean George H. Bush obviously had more experience during that election, he was only the president at the time.

Posted by: Vinny | April 24, 2008, 5:39 pm 5:39 pm

Why has no one mentioned the Paul VS Clinton trial? This is big news. Fraud and illegal campaign contributions? With video evidence? Yet they play the Rev. Wright sound bite ad nauseum. I’m beginning to lose track of all the Clinton misdeeds. The GOP is salivating right now. They can attack her on so many fronts, it’s pathetic. However, McCain certainly can’t make a big deal about Rev. Wright (see Hagee). There is no viable way they can link Obama to Ayers. Rezko has borne no fruit for either HRC or the GOP. If the best they can do is call him on the “bitter” comment and (lol) the “flag pin” controversy, they don’t have a leg to stand on. If you think that Obama appeared to be off his game in the last debate, consider how you’d perform after being sucker-punched by the “fair and balanced” media. I don’t think they will catch him with his pants down (my apologies to Bill) this time. The only thing holding him back is the fact that a portion of this country is not ready to vote for a black man. Which is the stronger motivation? Racism or self intersest? If you vote McCain over Obama, we know which side of the fence you are on.

Posted by: TheLight315 | April 24, 2008, 5:48 pm 5:48 pm

Hey, Light315…
The GOP doesn’t need anything to attack Obama: “Democratic Presidential Nominee Barack Hussein Obama” is all the Repubs need to win.
And “If you vote McCain over Obama, we know which side of the fence you are on.” Really? You’re automatically racist if you don’t vote for Obama?
Well, brand me as such ’cause I ain’t voting for him. Am I sexist ’cause I ain’t voting for Hillary? Am I biased against the elderly ’cause I ain’t voting for McCain? Maybe I’m just smart enough not to play follow the leader when it comes to politics and decisions that can impact the country and the whole world. Maybe I’m strong enough not to vote against my convictions and conscience.

Posted by: Rev.St.Huck | April 24, 2008, 5:57 pm 5:57 pm

Remember, America’s star politician could have given voice to Florida and Michigan voters by making a call that would have allowed both states to hold a re-election. Although for months the Senator from Illinois stated political rhetoric, when it came down to action, he refused.
Then Obama went on ABC and spoke for the first 45 minutes and cried when ABC picked on him. I guess the Senator from Illinois even bored himself. It was Obama’s fault that few questions were asked since Obama kept repeating himself over-and-over. His lack of experience came out. For the first time, American’s partially found out about the Obama tax plan that will force the Middle class and retirees to pay more taxes. For the first time, American’s almost found out Obama’s position on weapons. After a while the commentator stated, “I guess you answered my question”. I guess growing up in private schools did not help this politician that made race an issue in this race.

Posted by: Dr Hubert, Lt Col, USAF Retired | April 24, 2008, 6:07 pm 6:07 pm

Some caucus states record the individual person’s vote. But at least four do not (notably Iowa, for one) and only record the local precinct delegates that emerge from each individual caucus.
In a true popular democratic vote, each person’s vote counts so that if you win by just one vote, you still win. But the notion of a national popular primary vote is flawed for at least two reasons (1) it can’t be counted accurately and (2) caucuses and primaries have different turnout rates, so that some states are grossly underrepresented in any popular vote tallies.

Posted by: Gene L | April 24, 2008, 6:42 pm 6:42 pm

Most of the national media is failing to do its job in failing to report how flawed the fundamental idea of a national primary popular vote count actually is under these circumstances. They simply regurgitate the meme without critique. The Florida and Michigan issue is beside the point. The entire concept is a red herring to begin with. I do have to give props to Andrew Romano of Newsweek for accurately discussing this issue weeks ago.

Posted by: Gene L | April 24, 2008, 6:46 pm 6:46 pm

“Maybe I’m strong enough not to vote against my convictions and conscience.”
And what makes you the flag bearer in that respect? I’m sure as hell not voting based on what is neat and cool. It’s ignorant statements like those that ensure partisanship will dominate politics for many years to come.

Posted by: vninja | April 24, 2008, 6:55 pm 6:55 pm

I am so sick of Clinton and her team claiming Michigan. She was the only one on the darn ballet. I threw my vote over to the Republican primary vs. wasting it on Clinton (or uncommitted).
Here in Michigan we were told over and over how the Democratic primary didn’t count. I am not the only one who jumped the ballot. Claiming Michigan for Clinton is joke. When will the media stop this ridiculous spin? I’m sick of hearing “your vote should count” from Camp Clinton — nice try on stealing the election in Michigan. Keep this up and you will hand it to McCain this fall.
I will vote for him over Clinton. I wanted to vote Obama; but given the choice between Clinton and McCain I will choose McCain. Again. Try me.
If any of the candidates gave a darn about Michigan they would have noticed our recession long ago. I’m disgusted. Welcome to our world – maybe now that economic woes are not just here in Michigan someone will pay attention?
Split the delegates in Michigan or do not count them. It wasn’t an election it was a joke.

Posted by: Peg | April 24, 2008, 8:20 pm 8:20 pm

Yea!!!actualy input from a voter in Michigan. Again the half truths prevail with the Clinton family. Hillary has no grace (among other things like lack of trust-illegal campaigning much much more)-that is why I switched to Obama-I honestly feel terrible for people who are in need of hope and hold on to every word Hillary says. The truth is, Hillary doesn’t care about any of these people-she cares about her own agenda. Watch the Hillary movie and then let me know how you feel. She can’t grab the bull by the horns with super delegates on her own, she is now copying Obama’s campaign style and lying about the popular vote. Does she really think American’s are in the dark? Hello!
Go OBAMA-thanks for your honesty and not selling your soul to the political machine!!!!!

Posted by: Sophia Beck | April 24, 2008, 8:42 pm 8:42 pm

This situation is indicative of Hillary’s campaign – twisting and changing the facts. Does she really think that the Florida and Michigan votes count? Does anyone know why Michigan and Florida had their primaries early knowing the DNC rules and what the consequencies would be?

Posted by: Brenda | April 24, 2008, 10:28 pm 10:28 pm

I can’t believe it!
The Clinton camp made a False statement!
It would be News if they made a True
statement!
It’s time for Hillary Pinnochio Clinton
to Go Home!

Posted by: reaganfan | April 25, 2008, 12:01 am 12:01 am

Might either of these candidates lead or at least sign-on to opposition to confirmation of General Petraeus as commander of CENTCOM?

Posted by: mirthinstjoe | April 25, 2008, 1:17 am 1:17 am

To: mirthinstjoe
How about this missleading statment on OB’s web-site!
PLAN FOR ENDING THE WAR IN IRAQ
“But conventional thinking in Washington lined up for war. The pundits judged the political winds to be blowing in the direction of the President. Despite – or perhaps because of how much experience they had in Washington, too many politicians feared looking weak and failed to ask hard questions. Too many took the President at his word instead of reading the intelligence for themselves. Congress gave the President the authority to go to war. Our only opportunity to stop the war was lost.
I made a different judgment. I thought our priority had to be finishing the fight in Afghanistan. I spoke out against what I called ‘a rash war’ in Iraq. I worried about, ‘an occupation of undetermined length, with undetermined costs, and undetermined consequences.’ The full accounting of those costs and consequences will only be known to history. But the picture is beginning to come into focus.”
—Barack Obama, Clinton, Iowa, September 12, 2007
I have checked out his web page! Because I have incountered a lot of BO Followers that beleave he voted no in the Senate on the Iraq War! That vote took place in Oct. of 2002; BO did not inter the Senate untill Jan. 2005!

Posted by: Texan | April 25, 2008, 4:03 am 4:03 am

So IF you included just FL, she wouldn’t be ahead…
IF you gave all the uncommited votes to Obama – meaning they voted “against” Hillary – beacuse she was the only person on the ballot – she would be further behind than she is now. She won less than 50% of the votes – with noone on the ticket.
I love those IFs…

Posted by: Kelley C | April 25, 2008, 8:34 am 8:34 am

Given the probability that Hillary Clinton was going to be the Dem nominee to win the 2008 election–a foregone conclusion at the inception of this campaign given the abysmal record of the Bush regime–there suddenly emerged the “perfect opponent” to insure divisiveness among the Democrats: a black male named Barack Obama.
Obama’s campaign warchest was instantly flooded with millions of dollars.
My antennae went up:
WHO or WHAT was the OZ behind THIS curtain? WHO stood to gain by an intra-party conflict of the magnitude that has ensued?
And WHO actually had the bucks to make his campaign fly?
There was only one answer: the folks with the REAL money. There is a certain group that was quaking in their boots at the changes that Hillary’s election might well bring about: a fair shake for the average American.
The Democrats I know are not known to have $1000 bills to spare, to toss into election coffers. So the true source of all the millions and millions of dollars being thrown at Barack Obama, using logic and reason,
HAD to be linked to the people who stood to suffer financially by Hillary’s election: Republicans and their minions in corporate America: insurance, oil, pharmaceuticals, those who had effectively frozen all wage advances for the average worker during the Bush reign..in short..it HAD to be corporate America vis a vis the Republican Party who were betting on a “ringer” to disrupt the inevitability of Hillary’s election.
No matter the outcome, their reasoning was that the entire Hillary vs Obama process would promote infighting and reveal the weaknesses of each Democratic candidate, ultimately to be (hope hope!) exploited in the final battle for the White House and have ANOTHER Republican in control.
The focus of this campaign is the ONE TRUE QUESTION facing us as Americans:
Are we going to CONTINUE TO allow ourselves to be manipulated and divided, this time using race and gender, to our ultimate defeat?
Will this Napoleonic attempt to “divide and conquer” (again) be successful?
Did we learn NOTHING in the wake of the manipulation of the Christian right that resulted in the George Bush/corporate regime that has dragged us into the “anything-BUT” Christian position of war, devastation,torture, financial and fiscal destruction, wholesale outsourcing of jobs and the medical vulnerability of EVERY American only one serious illness away from being financially devastated?
If McCain rides on the back of prejudice into the White House we have sorely failed as citizens of these UNITED States.
Dear God, I hope all Americans let the scales fall from their eyes.
Remember WHO owns the television media and controls the political commentaries–and commentators of ALL ilk, including the talk show hosts….
It ain’t the man or woman who lost HIS job last month.
and THINK ON THESE THINGS.
The vote wisely and according to your conscience and common sense.

Posted by: barbara | April 27, 2008, 1:13 pm 1:13 pm

ABC has something to say about the elections? They should be somewhere hanging their heads in shame for that horrible debate they sponsored. It was a complete train wreck.
It’s really sad, shameful, and pitiful that I have to go to the BBC to hear unbiased news. I guess this is what a corporate run media looks like. The journalists are so caught up in the salaciousness of the people NOT running for president they can’t even report correctly.
Americans have to scrape and scrounge for a good news source because we know that ABC, FOX, and CNN aren’t it. Our children can tell us more about Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, and Rihanna than they ever could about the Executive branch of our government. TV, especially the news, will make you stupid. Thanks for proving that ABC.

Posted by: Bethany | April 29, 2008, 5:15 pm 5:15 pm

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