Clinton Campaign Chair Threatened to Strip Michigan of Delegates in 2004

I really don’t see the inconsistency. Michigan and Florida disobeyed the Party rules and had to be disciplined. They have paid a big price already. But now as this primary season has shaken out it has become clear that no matter who the nominee is he must have those two states on board, especially in a razor thin nomination contest.

It’s not that they really care. The Clinton’s have just decided they will not come down off of the thrown.
I hope she decides to lose in a more dignified way. If not she can always join the Lieberman party.

Rules when they disenfranchise people or hurt more than help should be reviewed and if needed changed. This “sticking to the rules argument from the media and the Obama supporters is yet another sample of absolute hypocrisy. If it were Obama on Clinton’s situation everyone, and I mean everyone, media and Obamamaniacs would be demanding for the votes to be counted. And please, please don’t deny it.
If they (Michigan and Florida voters) are counted…The scenario would be completely different wouldn’t it?
Why do you think Mr. Obama kept his name on the Florida ballot? Because he is not an idiot.

Clinton is a phoney, through and through. Both of them.

DNC be warned, we the youth and university students have form a platform call young democrats, any attempt to turn the table we will destroy the democratic party and they will never win election in this country. Put us to test is not a threat but reality, we are mobilizing already.

When the democratic nominee is decided, the losers will quickly kiss and make up. The loser’s followers (AKA lemmings) will not only follow suit, they’ll sweat the differences between the two candidates were merely superficial.
And who said the democrats don’t have heart-felt principles and iron clad convictions?.

The vote did count. The delegates didnt.
Go re read the rules.
only the CORRUPT MEDIA wants to paint the WHOLE primaries in Michigan and Florida dont count.
The ONLY thing that didnt count was the DELEGATES.

Great reporting Jake. Keep em honest. Hillary’s people really define the word hypocrisy. Unbelievable. Thanks for filling in the fascinating details for us. Fortunately, there is justice in this world, and honest politicians like Obama come along every now and then. History will show that electing Obama President of the United States will prove to be a defining and healing moment for our beloved country. Warmongers no longer. Peace, negotiation, and cool heads will prevail. The Clintons offer their hot headed carry a big stick philosophy, and according to Hillary, they are ready and willing to obliterate Iran’s innocent women and children with NUCLEAR weapons, in retaliation for the actions of their evil dictator. There are better ways to solve the world’s problems, other than threatening to obliterate other countries with NUCLEAR weapons!

Its simply how much hypocrisy is going on in most of the postings all driven by some far-fetched outlandish sentiments.The facts remain clear as they have always been.DNC guidelines were violated in Michigan and Florida.Therefore,in formal terms,the party did not present its candidates for primaries in those states and this was understood and agree to by all the candidates .If anyone’s name was left on the ballot,it was an act of mischief for which the pendulum swings between the state electoral commitee and the RNC. Hence,for Hilary Clinton to expect to pick up votes as spin off of that incident just continues to amplify not only her dishonesty but a willingness to betray the party just to get the nomination. I don’t think she lives on the planet with us.

Well finally this comes out. Obama has nothing to do with the revote or recount or anything. he said that whatever the DNC wanted to do he would support. the DNC said they wont be counted so how is it his fault. you have to play by all the rules to which you agreed. you cant be selective on which rules you want to use when its to your advantage. how did he disenfranchise the voters? they new ahead of time the rules and the governing body voted anyway, they put their states in that position not him. blame the states not the candidate

It simply shows how much hypocrisy is going on in most of the postings all driven by some far-fetched outlandish sentiments.The facts remain clear as they have always been.DNC guidelines were violated in Michigan and Florida.Therefore,in formal terms,the party did not present its candidates for primaries in those states and this was understood and agreed to by all the candidates .If anyone’s name was left on the ballot,it was an act of mischief for which the pendulum swings between the state electoral commitee and the RNC. Hence,for Hilary Clinton to expect to pick up votes as spin off of that incident just continues to amplify not only her dishonesty but a willingness to betray the party just to get the nomination. I don’t think she lives on the planet with the rest us.

Imagine: And you really are imaging things. The DNC made an appointment with FL and MI to discuss their delegates. Where have you been? I don’t think you read well. Of course the DNC wants to seat them. The DNC would get a good shocker if FL and Mi decided not to vote at all in the general election and where would that leave your Obama. Think about it and get the facts straight.

Politics: When you talk about the devil you must be talking about that non-christian racist candidate who is attending a church with a racist anti-american pastor. And I know I am correct. Obama honest? Your kidding. He said he wasn’t friends with Ayers but they live next door to each and had dinner together. I am so glad George caught him. And caught him in a lie.

Hope: Maybe what you need to do is save your own soul and clean out your own backyard. Most of the commentors and haters of Hillary, I wonder what’s in their closet? Drugs and booze like Obama use to take in college. From what I have been reading most college students have to take drugs to survive or drop out. Maybe that’s why they have so much trouble thinking straight. Are you one of them?

Tom Davie
No matter how much you WANT your argument to make sense it doesn’t. People came out in Fla because there were other issues on the ballot. Many Obama supporters did NOT come out because they understood it would be for nothing…you cannot change hisotry when it is convenient. Michigan is a no-brainer…just look at how many voters picked “other” rather than vote for Hillary. The Clintons are DEAD to the black community no matter how this turns out…iut is just a matter of time before we see if the Democratic Party is dead to them this year also.

A have a plan!
If the DNC does not doover MI and seat FL as the currant results and force out Clinton from this race and give the nomination tyo an unelectable guy, we, Hillary supporters started switching our positions to send tyhe message to the DNC!
So many Hiollary supporters will be changing their registered democrat status to independant to send the message to the DNC!
They will understan that it is NO JOKE!
obama can not win! It is proven after PA!

Porchhound,
Fl voter turnout was an all time record and you know it. Wasn’t it over 2.5 million?? Seems a lot of people cared enough to vote. Sorry you missed it.

I voted for Obama and I don’t think that he can win in November!
If Hillary gets the nomination, allthough I hate her, I will accept it!
Because it is better than McCain!

By stripping a state of its delegates, for whatever reason, the national democratic committee is violating the suffrage rights of the entire state’s citizens.
Other sanctions should be applied for these states violating the voting schedule, but taking a basic civil rights away from the people is not only illegal, it is wrong.

let’s summarize Obama’s strategy:
1. deny FL and MI voters their constitutional right to vote
2. deny voters in the remaining states any opportunity to see Obama vs. Clinto in a straight shooting debate
3. pretend that he doesn’t know that there is no way in heaven that he can win the necessary votes to win the nomination.
now now .. does all that look like W behaviour to you? it surely does to me..

You people are all so stupid and ignorant. HRC is an evil self-centered person who only has visions of power for herself and her lying husband. Go ahead and vote for McCain if Obama gets the nomination, you’ll show them republicans then, won’t you?? Idiots!

Peter,
You are soooo right. Obama CANNOT win; it will never happen.
Go Hillary!!

I work at a bar in NC and everybody that I know who was supposed to vote for Obama is switcehd for Hillary!
She may win NC!
Obama is really unelectable!
GO HILLARY

omg shirley,
are you in the golden triangle region?that is so interesting, because the msm would have us outsiders think otherwise.
thanks for the real news

imagine, Did you get into a front end collision and hit your head? Or were you just born stupid? First learn how to spell and type. Then make sure what you say makes sense. Last clinton is an outright liar. She said she misspoke about her bosnia trip. Hmmmm! Gee she did three times. In my book that makes you a flake. If I were under sniper fire I surely would remember that, but for hillary she can just make up her own memories as she goes. What would happen if she gets in the
White House and starts to make things up in head. She’ll never get in. Let her keep running. Its quite entertaining to watch what she comes up with next. Barack never asked her to step aside, infact he said she should run as long as she wants. Shes a loser, shes deceitful, she lies, and will do anything to win. face it she is pathetic

I think that Mrs. Clinton will win both IN and with a very narrow margin NC and
win the nomination too!
She bounced back stronger than ever!

Hill Girl is going to win IN and NC!
Obama girl is finished!!!

I don’t care what the bigwigs in the party did then or now. No one asked the voters of FL and MI what they wanted. Why can’t they have a re-vote? The voters did not do anything wrong and should not be punished. You people in the remaining 48 states, how would you feel if your vote was taken away.

I will be voting for hillary in NC!
I don’t think Obama has any chance to make it!
If he can not control Rev Wright now, how is he gonna stop when he runs for the White House against Mccain!
Obama is on;t hope Hillary is the real deal!
But I have to say if PA would be couple pounts loss for Obama I’d have considered him!

“Auliffe said then — “the rules are the rules.”
Why? “For the good of the party,” he wrote (then)”
Ahhh, but everyone knows that The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present; plus Rules are for the little people.
And we all know that some people are above the rules, don’t we.

Clinton will keep arguing she should get the MI and FL votes to the end because she’s a woman, and women always need to get their way. Men don’t want to lose their affection so they usually give in. Just look at all the court cases of the past – male judges show favoritsm to female defendents disproportionately.

It is clear that Hill & Bill will say & do anything for power. Americans are so gullible you’d think they’d get more educated after allowing the country to be run by a bad chearleader called Bush. Americans got bushed alright, now get some education that Obama is recommending and help bring us back to a first rate country instead of a third world nation.

OK…….lets stop all this about Hillary lies, because Obama is no better in that department. Like he attended Rev. Wright church but, never heard him say those things. Or when Obama denied one of his underlings not saying or talking to Canadian oficials about Nafta and then saying later yes they did. Or that he doesn’t know anything about Rezenko. You can go anywhere and find plenty more he has retracted.
Obama has proven himself to be just another politician, so don’t be so enamored about him being so clean and forthright. As sure as the sun comes up every day, something else will come out on Obama. Lets just “hope” it doesn’t happen If he gets the nomination.

NinK,
Florida could never afford a revote. Their economy has tanked and they are laying off state workers. No joke there.
Over 2.6 million Dem. voters cast their ballots in the primary. It was flawless and for Florida that is an achievement. A revote simply would not happen there.
There is no reason to spend time on that discussion becuase it would never happen. No good reason to revote either with the record turnout. While the candidates pledged not to campaign. as we all well know, Obama had his ads air in Florida for three weeks. Clinton attended 3 fundraisers, all allowable under the pledge.
Also, be careful what you wish for. Edwards took parts of northern Florida. Upon a revote those votes would never go to Obama. I know the area well.

and ya know what sucks the most out of all of this… do you wanna know how pissed off i would be if i was a democrat in florida or michigan?????? im talking, serious outrage. all because of your “for the people” party.. for the average citizen. what a joke… cant believe theres not more outrage on that fact versus having a revote or not.

Listen, I have no earthly idea why the democrats would think it is democratic to not count two of the states in the primary, especially when those are two states that have a major impact on the general election.
Put aside all this he said she said BS or rules are rules and try to put yourself in the shoes of the voters in FL and MI who came out to vote in record numbers. They had no real say on when their elections were to be held, yet they are the ones not being able to excercise their right to vote. If Obama thinks that it is unfair to count the original votes because he wasn’t able to campaign, I can sympathize, but why then did he drag his feet and try to prevent a re-vote in these two states? That to me is the real question. If he wants to win legitimately, he should want these states counted, not to mention if he wants to carry these states if he gets the nomination.
I don’t mind you bringing up issues of what originally happened to warrant a re-vote Jake, but if you do, you should at least call into question the undemocratic means that Obama is trying to steal this nomination.

The DNC can’t say SC can break the rules but Florida and Michigan can’t.
I say seat the Florida delegates as voted, with all the candidates on the ballot (which I voted in), and seat the Michigan delegates, with the uncommitted just that, free to choose who they want.
Hillary ’08

Alison,
One thing you should factor in with Michigan is that the serious and extensive effort by Obama surrogates to rally people to vote uncommitted for him was definitely campaigning in violation of the pledge. He does not come to the table with “clean hands.” Also consider his airing TV ads in FL was campaiging in violation of the pledge. Again, he does not come to the table with clean hands.

HAHA
The Clintons are caught… The will of the people???
I guess only when it’s in your favor
HYPOCRITE lol
wow

Markymark, you are totally wrong. The reason why Hillary is still running because she believes that only she can beat Mccain and win the general election and thus saves the democratic party. It’s Obama who is only concerned with winning the white house. As a freshman from the senate, someone who has never been tested and doesn’t even enough knowledge and experience to be our commander-in-chief, Obama merely raises false hopes and illusions among the nation. He can’t fix the economy nor can he fulfill all his promises to the Americans. But he doesn’t care. He only cares about his white house bid. He was the one who has divided the party. He’s the one who should bow out of the race in order to save the party and the nation. He should just patiently wait and work hard for another 8 years and we’ll support him wholeheartedly if he can pass the eight-year test.

The DNC throws the voters of Michigan and florida to the curb, they are going to lose many.
The the Democratic leaders in florida and Michigan to the curb, not the voters.
Try to remember we the people

ya know, its interesting to see all the differences here. im voting for mccain, just for the record, but if i were a democrat, i would be outraged right now! first off, the whole deal with MI. and FL.not counting should be enought to freak out, and then you have two canidates that basically want the same things but everyone hates!!! hillary supporters hate obama, and obama supporters hate hillary. so its a lose, lose situation for the democratic party. i mean, i really cant see, either way, the party comming together for either one. im not complaing, but ive never seen so much outrageon two canidates who basically have the same views? only in america.

So if CountAlltheVotes has it right: The DNC has no legitimate reason to not allow the popular vote of MI and FL to count – and Obama knowing “the rules” managed to get his name off the ballot in MI, but could not do so in FL. Hence, Obama’s argument that since my name is not on the ballot, the popular vote should not count (even though we advertised to vote uncommitted to our supporters) in MI and advertised and held a press conference in FL. Secondly, if “the rules” are to be followed, then Iowa, NH and SC should be stripped of their delegates and popular votes as well – if the DNC is going to follow “the rules”. It really comes across as arbitrary politics, without any common sense used by Dean or any of the other powers that be in the DNC. So, all the popular votes should be counted – and Hillary is leading. Otherwise, Obama should man up and allow a revote in the two states.

JOHN W. IN FLA.
sad but true. you summed it all up perfectly. thats EXACTLY what is going to happen. i would just encourage democrats not to blame either canidate for the mess in those two states, (or to encourage a revote as bad as it is), but rather the DNC and the states democratic party. i feel terrible for the millions of democrats who got screwed. think about that when it comes to your states election for congress. a complete disgrace.

BlackManisRight:
Great rationalizing! I think Obama is a white man who looks black… anything wrong with this?

frisco girl: You are so right. Obama doesn’t want a revote and there never should have been a rule that the state can’t change their primary date. Who does the DNC think they are. New Hampshire changed their primary date and did not get penalized. Howard Dean thought that Obama was going to win NH and got fooled. Therefore it was too late to penalzie that state. He is as underhanded as can be. He previously endorsed Obama and he doesn’t want her to win the nomination. Dean and Reid should step down and Pelosi should go back to Italy. I hope the superdelegates are smart enough to vote Hillary and leave Obama in the dust.

Can any Hillary supporter answer a couple of questions from this Obama supporter? 1. Why do you think Hillary can win the nomination? (If you have a link to anything I’d appreciate it.) 2. If you do NOT think she can win the nomination, do you know why she is still running? Thank you in advance.

Hillary has more votes tha Obama, if the democrats refuse to count them, they are worse than the repubicans in the 2000 election. Remember how the republicans cheated in counting the votes in FL. Our country paid the price for this blunder, look at our ecomomy and the Bush blunder in Iraq.

Who in the hell cares who said what about this? The fact is its WRONG to leave two states completely out of the process. I am a Hillary supporter but if she was ahead and Obama wanted to have a revote, I would be saying the same thing. How can you have a nomination process leaving Michigan and Florida out?? This country is based on the right for people to vote. I don’t think it should be up to the “party” to decide this.

Clinton will steal the nomination and the darkies will riot! 1968 all over again.

Hillary can win. Obama is fading in the home stretch and is looking to weak to face McCain in the fall. His poll numbers have dropped 10 points nationally since PA.(47-47) If it keeps going like this…he is done.

I bet the Obama kool-aid crew can’t wait for Rev. Wright to give a prayer breakfast sermon in the White House. The question is, will the sermon include: a)racism b)hate c)anti-American feeling d)all the above. What has our country become?

If Fla. and Mi. are upset that their primarys won’t count–they only need to look their elected leaders.They got greedy and wanted to jump the gun.They wanted to be the first kids on the block with the newest toys. But it backed fired—and now they are screaming to high heaven.Like it or not every one of us has rules to live by. What is that old saying?? Remember the “Golden Rule”!! You know the one that says”He that has the gold makes the rules .”

Supposedly, Obama is using some of Howard Dean’s 2004 grass roots strategy in his campaign. Dean and Obama have been in this together since the 2004 convention. The whole “big speech” that Obama gave at the convention was the set up for the start of the presidential run. The media and the DNC almost had democrats hoodwinked and bamboozled into believing that Obama was the new kind of politics. It’s just a shame that all these young people have been caught up in this sham. The best way to look at it is they are living a tough life lesson – life, like politics, is never fair.

There is no newsworthy inconsistency here. The Clinton camp is trying to find some way to count the votes cast in Michigan and Florida now that A) the race is so close these states are more crucial to deciding the true outcome of the nominating process, and B) winning these swing states in the general election (which Obama seems determined to lose) is more important than ever. Besides, not seating the delegates does not mean the elections never took place. The Democratic Party, is the party which insists on counting all the votes.

Hillary will go to the convention even if it means she will not nominated. Even if she looses NC and IN, it does not matter she will keep fighting.
PR, KY and WV are supporting Hillary by more than 10/15% points.
Obama is no general election candidate. He is a radical person who will bring this country down.

When Clinton told, over and over in minute detail and without blinking, the bald-faced lie about how she took sniper fire in Bosnia, it just brought home the point of how she will do anything to get the nomination. I also think it was very insulting to the men and women in the war zones who are taking fire and truly risking their lives.

Thank you so much. Now, tell the public why we have New Hampshire first, so that a small state is available to unknowns, without a personal fortune, so they can have their point of view heard.

Mariann Pepitone ,
I have no doubt you’re the one who’s out of touch with scheme of things.Of course,the DNC will sit the delegates from MI and FL if they want to.Be rest assured it won’t be by rigging the primaries in those places so it favors Hilary Clinton and then she can be ‘coronated’queen of the American ‘empire.Woman get real.Don’t let some outlandish emotional passion drive you off the highway.

I keep seeing all you Hillary haters harping on the fact that you don’t like her. She’s not out trying to win a popularity contest like Obama. Is this guy really worried about his suits and shoes not making look like an elitist? I was really happy to hear that he likes pot roast so that just makes him a regular guy. Aren’t we trying just a little bit too hard here? Let me guess, he cuts the lawn with regular mower because to use a riding one would look too elitist. If this stuff has him looking like a deer in the headlights what’s going to happen in the Fall?

I dont know about the rest of you but we did teach our kids to obey the rules..the laws..and such..im a florida native but we all knew back then our votes wouldnt count because florida broke the rules…and michigan too…and it –isses me off our votes dont count but rules are rules..lets get a better system so this never happens again

The nomination process is definitely good for Obama. Clinton’s heavy punchs made him understand what shall be coming. It is good that it took longer to seal. However, there is no way he will not be the Candidate with all the figures to his favor. It is time to think beyond the coming primaries & unite. If Hillary does it without breaking rules, then she shall have all our support

I have been reading the posts both here and other sites and decided to speak my mind. I was a supporter of Edwards and when he dropped out of the race I had no real preference as to the nominee. But after watching thr MSM denigrade Hillary and push Obama down our throats, I became angry and decided to support Hillary. The hatred expressed by Obama supporters is chilling. Do I want someone like him to be our President NO!. I have been a Democrat all my long life but I must ask a question.Will I leave the democrat party YES! Will I vote for Obama NO!NO!NO!

Ladies, I sorry but Hillary will never win the primary or the general election!!

Obama opted to have his name removed from the MI ballot; Clinton left her name on the ballot; that’s not flaunting anything, that’s just being politically intelligent. Clinton won that election and Obama has previously refused the offer made by some to have a re-vote. He’s afraid. In part, the MI and FL primaries were combined as an economic measure and just who does the DNC think it is that it can disenfranchise all of those voters and delegates? The DNC needs a major overhaul, including how the caucuses are conducted. They’re ruining all principles of democracy. In order to save face, the DNC will have to dissolve either the popular vote in MI and/or the delegates; it would be suicide if they opted for both. FL has its own similar challenges. Thank you Howard Dean for this mess. It was a blessing that you never made it when you ran for President.

was a hillary supporter
what is your point?
I do not see eye to eye with my wife on everything either.
so what,

After all this is over, we clearly need to take a hard look at our nomination process. With very genuine and sincere emotions running so high, no matter who you support – this was a very remote chance of this happening. Women sticking with Hillary through thick and this, newcomers drawn in by Barack very hopeful to change our stagnant government. The electorate cut up and hacked up so as to find clues as to who supports who where. Truth is both are really great candidates. Each has had their mis-steps, and both have come roaring back with a vengence in one way shape or form at various points. I truly believe after everything that has been said, that either would represent us well come November. Problem is, both are VERY historic candidates. First Woman President? Wow. I can fully understand the older generation wanting to see that in their lifetime. First Black President?gasp. An utter demonstration to the world that we can be color blind, and listen to message over impulse. This is truly a historic time. I am glad to be alive to witness it.

Al: Obama’s candidacy has really opened my eyes, and the eyes of millions of other Americans, to the extent of hatred by some (not all) blacks against white people in this country. Before Obama’s candidacy, I had no idea what black liberation theology was (Obama’s religion), and how it preaches hatred against the “white devils.” I also had no idea how accepted these racist ideas were with some (not all) in the black community. But most startling of all, I had no idea that in order to support their so-called candidate of “change,” Obama supporters would ignore, or even justify, this hateful and racist theology in order to elect their “messiah.” I think America really needs to wake up to this issue, before it’s too late. Whenever I see Obama at his rallies, and you see white people in the audience cheering him on, I feel sorry for them. I wonder how they would feel about their “champion” if they knew that the fundamental basis of his “religion” was, as James Cone puts it, “the destruction of the white enemy.” Obama’s candidacy is arguably the most terrible hoax ever perpetrated on the American public by any Presidential candidate in history.

Allamr: The UCC is a very large group of churches from around the country. It is primarily white. Trinity United, is a member church, but it is primarily black. Rev. Wright preaches black liberation theology at Trinity, which is not preached at other UCC churches. Black liberation theology, as I noted in my earlier post, is a very racist perversion of Christianity developed in the 1960′s, and is based upon blacks fighting the “white oppressors” and “white devils.” The quotes I listed in my prior comment were directly from James Cone, who is Rev. Wright’s theological mentor.

“Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them… well, I have others.”
-Groucho Marx

The chorus of cynics and fearmongers persists their endless, mindless drawl. Pushing base fears and not respecting individual’s intellect. This is a pattern that repeats election after election.
No matter who you support, know where you stand on issues, then listen to your candidate’s position and vote accordingly.
“With Open Eyes” has the right idea while pushing their candidate, but more importantly we should NOT succumb to the fear mongering tactics that continue to divide us as a nation. We do share some common interests. Don’t get your facts from only one source is a good rule of thumb, then discuss with friends and family.
Good luck to all the candidates this year!

how do you know what the people are filled with? and what are they supposed to be afraid of? fear of what and hatred of what?

As was posted in another blog, three other states also violated the DNC rules and were not penalized by the same DNC leadership.
If Obama and his campaign want Michigan and Florida to be penalized for breaking the DNC rules, then the same standard should apply to all states.
To do anything less will disenfranchise Michigan and Florida Democrats and result in a McCain victory.
Pelosi, Dean, your actions speak louder than your words.

tww: Moyer’s “interview” with Rev. Wright was a blatant attempt to rehabilitate his image. No tough questions. Not even serious questions about black liberation theology, which is the crux of Rev. Wright’s teachings. Unfortunately, serious broadcasting has degenerated into support for Obama, American Idol, and Hillary bashing.

James: Under the law right now? i dont know ask Sean Bell, ask the teens of Jena Six, ask the victims of Katrina. ask the mother of Emmitt Till, ask the family members of mlk, medgar evars, mumia jamal. I dont hate white people in any form or fashion. i was raised in the military and lived with people of all races. And i said that whites now arent like that. but in the 60 and 70s they were. Bill Clinton himself said that there were certain laws he wishes he hadnt have passed because they unfairly targeted minorities. do i think hes racists of course not nowhere near it.

How is Wright doing him a dis-service? obama is speaking as a politician. hes saying what he needs to say and what he feels. this is why theres a clear distinction of the separation of church and state. speaking to two different audiences. if you go to church and your happy the entire time and you havent been challenged your not paying attention. the second you step out of your comfort zone you will see this. my dads a minister. my uncle is. rev moss who is now the pastor at trinity is a great man he spoke at my church many times. its two different audiences

Allamr: I appreciate your response, and I agree that it was MUCH worse in the 1960′s. My problem with Rev. Wright, is that he preaches like it is still 1960. My problem with Obama, is that he has been listening to that hateful rhetoric and exposing his children to it for many many years.

Hillary can’t win. Tsk tsk to all your obviously and soooo incredibly desperate supporters who will continue in their efforts to slander you and destroy the democratic party out of spite.
OBAMA ’08 !!!!!!!

Al,
I think you need to wake up. We are not voting for Rev. Wright. Put him on the sidelines while we discuss The war in Iraq, foreclosures, high inflation rate, outrageous gas prices, climbing food costs and 8 years of the worse president in American history. When you get your head focused on the important stuff, Rev. Wright and his statements seem a little useless. Remember this Rev Wright’s words won’t harm you – just don’t go to his church. However allowing yourself to be distracted by the “politics as usual” tactic just might!

Allamr: The reason I am so bothered by Obama sitting in Rev. Wright’s church for 20 years and calling him his “mentor and spiritual adviser,” is because in my life, I try to put myself in the place of others, and be objective about how I would react in the same or similar instances. If I were in a church, and a pastor said even one racist statement about blacks, I would not attend another sermon by that pastor, period. Twenty years to me, seems like Obama was much too comfortable with Rev. Wright’s theology. Anyway, I need to get some rest, but I do want to say again, that you seem like a good guy to me. We may not agree on everything, but we can respect each other, and I do respect the way you have responded to my comments. Have a good night.

Al: what does that mean? campaign spiritual adivsor? and arent you glad he took it down? if he wouldve left it up you wouldve been far more upset. And judgement about what? he chose a pastor that people dont like, but he voted against iraq he voted to pass legislation for the aid in katrina. your talking about personal judgment in relationships that you dont agree with. not his policies

Well yeah why would he leave it up. thats like when hillary lied about the hospital story she stopped using it. makes sense for her to not have it anymore.
Again what judgments policy wise has he made that are bad for america. because we have all made poor judgements with associations. rev wright was not a poor judgement it was poor speaking on rev wrights part not obamas

Al,
Wait until you see the documents on John McCain. It seems the war hero was not quite truthful about his 20 hours in combat in Viet Nam before capture. The document was written by highly respected Col. David Hackworth. Once again this is a first hand story and not a guilt-by-association story like Rev. wright.

All we ever get now from Hillary is FLIP-FLOP in her Desperate actions to hang on in the race, add to that her LIES & SMEARS it is time now for the Voters! of Indiana and North Carolina to send her a clear message THE EXIT DOOR! – she has tried to FOOL VOTERS! well we are starting to see the real Hillary and Bill and they never change, NOT FIT FOR OFFICE!

I would like an Obama lover to stop fighting dirty all the time.
SHOW me the evidence Clinton and Obama agreed the primary and VOTE would not count.
They didnt. They agreed NO DELEGATES would be awarded.
The vote counts. Period.
Obama lovers, and the corrupt media that supports him, tries to BLEND in this idea that the WHOLE PRIMARY didnt count.
It sure did count.
-they set up the polling stations for democrats as well.
-they had ballots. They ALLOWED you to vote. They COUNTED up the ballots.
If it didnt count, they would have not done that in the first place.
Obama is an idiot for taking his name off the ballot in the first place.
I guess he could care less about all the folks who wanted to go out and support him anyways.
There were no delegates at stake. Why bother ? Right? Thats all that mattered to the guy.
DUMMY.

Hopesprings52, you are absolutely right!! this is a razor thin contest, and believe me….and I have heard this so many times from friends I know that live in other states….if they could take back their vote when they found out about Obama and his cast of characters……they would…and our girl Hillary would have had this thing by a landslide.

Is it just me or is there some kind hysteria driving this campaign?
As I understand it, when hysteria is driving, nothing has to add up, make sense, or be rational. That is because the actions are representing needs split from consciousness. I think.
Example: There’s this drumbeat now, “Debate Me, You Chicken!!!” and even her local surrogates are taking it up. It’s creepy how tacky and immature it is. Whether it pleases enough voters to send Obama home remains to be seen. But to me it seems like of loony. Like what are we getting if we put this person in charge of the free world?
She needs to demonstrate a little relaxation and a little reality therapy as those would be reassuring to some people she might votes from. If she can send Obama home, she’s going to want a LOT of votes that right now she is alienating so recklessly.

I am not exactly sure what this is about all this ‘tide is turning’ to Clinton? Perhaps the media is just spinning this to make a story last longer.
The result in Penn, well was it really 9 or 10 %? Whatever, the claim that Obama cannot win the big states against McCain is wrong, simple logic comes into play. In these contests, Obama was fighting one to one with Clinton, he was not up against McCain, it is obvious that the result would be very different if that was the case. If he was going up against McCain in Penn, he would not have had been up against the well ‘establishment’ machine supporting Clinton.
When in just a few weeks he got down the difference from 25% or so to 9 or 10 % whatever you wish to choose. This represents a massive swing. That was a good result for him.
My question is this. If the race to the White House is to be won be having the ‘blue collar workers’ or the ‘elderly’ on their side. Surely the media should be conducting opinion polls specifically targeting ‘blue collar workers’ or the ‘elderly’ with the simple question: “if in a general election the presidential candidates are Obama and McCain, who would you vote for?” That would give you a better answer to that ‘she is more experienced’ to win the bigger states.
This ‘hot potato’ and I am amazed the other networks have not picked this up, that is emerging is that the Clinton Campaign Chair threatened to strip Michigan of Delegates in 2004 if the DNC calendar is messed about with….Now the same is singing a different tune, to make sure they are counted. So my question goes back to first statement surely the tide is turning to Obama. Especially post Penn, he has had a string of high level endorsements.

I use to support Hillary. What’s turning me off is now you see how poorly she manage her campaign. She even lied on her debt. She should have been 15 million in the red. Now she’s talking she has the most popular vote. How can she count both FL & MI? In the beginning she and all the candidates signed that FL & MI was penalized for moving their primary. How can she even count MI when she was the only one on the ballot? She is really insulting voter’s intelligence! Even the media is laughing at her. More and more I’m turned off at her lies. What will she do in the White house? She already said she will bomb Iran with all the US weapons at her disposal if they bomb Israel! The republicans want to go into Iran, will she follow? Now she’s changing her stance on war? No negotiation with Iran? I have a son eighteen and one fourteen and I don’t want to see them drafted. It may happen because the troops are spread thin. Over four thousand soldiers killed and the economy in a mess. Her and McCain will continue this path and bring us to ruin. How can I be so blind? She and McCain are bad news.

Let’s not forget that Obama’s same spiritual advisor was personally invited to the White House to spiritually advise the Clintons after Bill got caught lying under oath about cheating on his wife.

The Superdelagates from Michigan and Florida should not be seated if the elected delagates are not. Dont these elected politicians and party big wigs represent the same people as the elected delagates? Oh, I forgot. The party rules or any rules for that matter, don’t apply to them, after all they’re “super” and they haven’t cared what the voters think for years.

Junior2, I am an Independent who has voted Democrat since 1984 when I felt that the Republican part was being completely taken over by idealogues. Yes, I voted for Bill twice and defended them against the nasty Republicans. However, Bill let us all down by providing fuel for Republicans to pursue. During this campaign season I prefferred Edwards and was indifferent to Hillary and Obama. After Edwards left and Hillary began her kitchen sink strategy I became more and more disgusted with her and Bill’s hypocrisy and shall we say….less than truthfulness (lying?). It reminded me of their supposed Republican enemies and brought back memories of Bill pointing his finger into the camera and stating “I did not have sex with that woman”, him stating “I did not inhale”, him arguing what is the defintion of sex….All the sleaziness that seems to be part and parcel with Bill and Hillary. And yes, they are tied together. Since Hillary wants to take credit for Bill’s successes she needs to accept responisbility for his failures as well. So, if Hillary somehow wins (steals) the nominiation I will either vote Republican for the first time in over 20 years since I believe McCain is a decent man (albeit in the wrong political party), or write-in a name (probably Edwards). But I will guarantee you I will not hold my nose and vote for Hillary. BTW…I considered registering Democrat this year and I am glad I did not. I believe Democrats behavior (particularly the Clintons) have been distasteful. I have officially joined the thinkers that it is time for a third party.

Anne Marie
So now Jake is wrong for reporting these two men are just like Hillary herself… (you know two of the four men surrounding her in the ring against Obama alone…but yeah she’s the fighter as Obama goes up every day against these two (one of which is the other exDNC Chair, Rendell, another ex-DNC chair,Billy boy an ex President, and McCain who wants to fight Hillary in the ring …not Barack)
This team…They do not care about the voters in Michigan in fact they are mcuh more at fault for this situation ( all of them …and if you read the DNC delegate counting committee’s notes…Mr. Pennsylvania…Rendell is way up there on this as well)
for discounting both Florida and Michigan (remember when Hillary had the power of the idea that she was the front runner…she could have figured this out but then she didn’t care that Michigan and Florida did not count)
This is a big issue…not a side issue…
It is about Hillary consistently cares about the voters when it effects her position only…and by doing so she makes situations worse. It is the Clinton way
Clintons first then everybody else.
The War…
The Nomination Process
The NAFTA debacles
The healthcare issue promising full healthcare coverage which is a statistical impossibility the way she is approaching it unless the insurance companies get A LOT of moneya dn the taxpayers have to pay an enormous amount…with the poor gettign tax breaks…c’mon you think tax breaks are going to help those people who are choosing food and rent over healthcare?
Do you think this program can afford to be more about preventative medicine…no. It will be bad reactionary at best…and fiscally it is a nightmare…is anyone looking at Massachusetts…it’s about cost…universal healthcare can’t be implemented until we get costs under control)
or
saying “obliterate” Iran with Nuclear Power to reinforce a win in PA not caring that the Iranians will use that soundbite to tell other nations why they need to protect themselves with Nuclear Weapons…
and promising “Massive retaliation” to countries to win PA not only giving a rogue nation a soundbite but subjegating America’s checks and balances and congressional approval to a campaign promise that is horrifically dangerous, fiscally irresponsible, and militarily back-breaking.
This woman is dangerous…she plays “I have been” in battle and has no idea what it’s effects are.
It is their way think tactically for their own power …not out of
This is a case of Marie Antoinette.

Apparently, the anger it takes to revise history can keep people up at night. It also seems that many of us start with a conclusion and work backwards to justify it. Sounds very similiar to our current administration.

What this misleading article proves is that Ickes and McAuliffe never stripped Michigan and Florida of their delegates at any time. In addition, Hillary only promised not to campaign in Florida and Michigan, she never said that the votes shouldn’t count. Hillary is entitled to these votes, she won them fair and square.

Doreen,
Ickes and 11 other Clinton supporters made up almost half of this cycle’s Rules Committee. Clinton had vastly more supporters on that committee than any other candidate, and in 2007 they chose to strip MI and FL of their delegates. Simply put, the decision was made primarily by Clinton supporters. It’s not a topic for debate or discussion, it’s a documented fact.
The additional detail of McAuliffe’s actions in 2004 just further demonstrates how duplicitous the Clinton position on this decision is. It’s a shame that so many Clinton supporters are unwilling to see this for what it really is.

I don’t care that Obama and Clinton agreed to discount Fla. and Mi. if they held early primaries. My issue is that the people of Fla., Mi., and the rest of the United States didn’t agree to these terms. No one asked America if it was okay to discount any citizen’s right to vote and be counted. If we allow this to happen to Fla. and Mi. what’s to say they don’t start making different rules and backdoor deals to manipulate elections as they see fit in the future. If the DNC doesn’t count Fla. and Mi. this lifelong democrat may vote republican for the first time. It won’t have anything to do with which candidate wins the democratic nomination, but instead with my frustration at the audacity of the DNC to decide what Americans do and do not have the right to be counted.

For those of you upset that Florida and MICH have not yet been included> Please consider the following about New Hampshire. It has few people. It is physically tiny. It has only a few towns. Therefore, any person, even you reading this, can campaign there and be heard. The whole idea is to allow a democratic process that any one can afford to be in. If you have big states first ONLY the rich and famous will be candidates. MICH and FLORIDA should NEVER be first.
Only small states allow an unknown to be part of the early process and to gain traction. If we have states like Florida, with 25 million people, first, you turn the election into a nobility only event, for the BRAND NAMES and BILLIONAIRES.
Please stop being angry about the MICH and Florida people. They will get to vote and maybe they will actually learn about the issues while they have this time on their hands. Any of you know the only candidate remaining in the race, to speak to restore the constitution?
Did you know that the Constitution has been erased? You no longer have the right to be charged with a crime, a speedy trial or to see the evidence against you or to cross examine witnesses.
Stop worrying about the mess the the Florida Republican and MICH Democrat local people made trying to shove their way in after they have been told in plain English not to do it. Do you understand why we MUST not have large states first?
It would be the end of democracy. You would get Clintons and the super rich and that’s all.

The television interview of Howard Dean this morning reinforces my beliefs that the failure of the Democratic Party leadership will result in the failure of the Democratic candidate in November.
Howard Dean is still seething with resentment from his own failed presidential candidacy. After he had been annointed as the frontrunner, he was soundly defeated. Now, he wants justification of his own failure by a repeat of history.
Throughout the entire interview, Howard Dean tried to portray himself as a neutral referee rather than a participant in the rules debacle he is currently presiding over. Mr. Dean, we all know better.
Regardless of what excuses Dean, Pelosi, and the rest of the Democratic leadership make, the voters of Michigan and Florida will determine the outcome of the November election.
Not even Jeremiah Wright could damage the Democratic Party as much as the failure of the DNC has already done.
Michigan and Florida voters will be heard…one way or another.

One more item about Howard Dean’s and the DNC’s failure in leadership:
If it is so important for Michigan and Florida to be held accountable for breaking the “rules,” then why are New Hampshire, Iowa, and South Carolina not being held to the same level of accountability for their rules transgressions?
Could it be that Florida and Michigan voters would determine a candidate who has more influence in American politics than Dean, Pelosi, and the entire DNC?

countallthevotes,
The rules committee decided on who to punish and how. They chose to punish MI and FL by stripping their delegates. Clinton had more pull on that committee than any of the six candidates. She very nearly had a majority, and her people voted strip the MI and FL delegates.
Now stop with the lies and evasion. The Clinton people did this, and now they’re trying to change the rules to suit them. If a candidate and her people are willing to behave this way in a primary, just imagine how little respect they’d show for the Constitution and rule of law. We’ve had seven years of that, we don’t need any more.

Justin,
You are silly. You think that Hillary Clinton stripped the FL and MI votes?

SINCE WHEN DID MAINTAINING PARTY UNITY BECOME THE SOLE RESPONSIBILITY OF HILLARY CLINTON?
SHE OWES NOBODY ANYTHING .
SHE HAS A RIGHT TO RUN TO WIN..

The Clintons feel they are above any rules or regulations. Those apply to everyone else. The Clintons make up THEIR OWN rules which everyone is expected to fall in line and support.
I’ve often heard Hillary was a socialist candidate, I certainly agree now. Her presidency would be more of a dictatorship than democracy. I just learned about the communist law firm she worked for in the 60′s. No wonder she wants to employ the Cold War strategy she used to justify her comments on oblitherating Iran. Seems she always goes back to the past instead of looking to the future.
News flash Hillary, this is a very different playing field than back in the Cold War era. It could very easiy heat up into a world war quickly. News flash Hillary today’s economy isn’t like the 90′s and you can’t apply Bill’s policies to fix it. In fact Bill’s policies with NAFTA and China trade contributed to where we are today. In fact special interest and lobbists run this country and you and Bill are in everyone of their pockets.
I say Hillary, Bill, give us all a break! We are not so stupid to believe anything you say anymore.

Count them or not, It still doesn’t matter. Neither candidate will have enough elected delegates to seal the election. So the point is mute. The real question is who you think is more likely to win against McCain in the general election. And don’t forget Hillary has won all the big states. Also don’t forget that Michigan and Florida are both also big crucial states that we have to win in the general election in order to win the presidency.

What sterling character these Democrat
leaders possess! A party like this
should be elected in perpituity. Who
even needs those rascally Repubs.
It’s obvious that Harold Ickes sits
at the left hand of God.

It’s clear that the Democratic party is a mess and is, yet again, poised to make another McGovern, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry. Either Hillary Clinton gets the nomination, or, as it appears more necessary everyday, the party should be destroyed.

Hillary is liar… If you’re willing to do or say anything to be President, then you don’t deserve to be President… it is as simple as that.

Most ultra liberal democrats don’t care about all of baracks baggage:
-James Wright’s “god damn America” sermon,
-Antoine’ Rezco, got barak’s campiagn started, jailed political fixer
-domestic terrorists Ayers and Dorhn
these guys blew up 25 bombs in the US
-bitter small town Americans
-HAMAS in the church bulletin
-he admitted smoking crakc / cocaine
but most mainstream americans / democrats do:
see PA OH vote results and if the media got on barack earlier, he would never have won the earlier states he did…
FOR 16 months hillary got hammered and obama got a free ride… now that some of his skeletons are out of the closet he can’t win dem primary… look at his rresults with PA AND OH DEMOGRAHPICS
smells like mcgovern
and dukakis and gore and kerry.. the ultra liberal democrats are going to give the whouse to mccain…
PA PUTS CLINTON BACK ON TOP
FLORIDA and PENNSYLVANIA are identical demographically speaking.
Barack will be painted quite easily as less than american – wright, rezco, ayers, dohrn, farrakhan, HAMAS in the church bulletin, and the list goes on…
The republican dirty tricks bag is limitless and they can’t kill hillary — her ideas wont die.
Hillary got tough questions for 16 months as the front runner, now obama cant handle the heat unless its from the end of his pipe or cigarette.
no smoking in the whitehouse
and yes … he admitted smoking CRack in his youth…. if hillary did, she would be gone a long time ago…. Hillary fired her campaign manager in NHampshire for talking about it…. though ..the republicans are going to grind him into soup meat, if he wins …
u can’t win in November
WHEN IT COUNTS THE MOST
with out FLORIDA
and PENNSYLVANIA
Obama is electorally doa.

With Hillary winning PA she has won ALL the BIG State’s. People say “Obama has won more State’s” Yes, true. But don;t you see taht the majority of these are SAFE REPUBLICAN State’s? In some States not even 10,000 voters came out, compared to the millions in PA, FL, OH, and even MI.
As far as I am concerned, they better count our Votes of us in MI, and our friends in Florida. Obama is trying to get it his way. Too bad he wanted his name OFF THE BALLOT in MI, HIS CHOICE, unlike some of the folks on here trying to see he didn’t have time to put it on.
Bullcrap. He was on the ballot in FL, and still lost by DOUBLE DIGITS. The Democrats pass him through as our nominee, this is one lifetime Democrat voter going to cross over to McCain.
No Obama presidency for me.
Shirley, MI

Just Words?! Clinton Says Actions Matter – They Do!
CLINTONS:
Paula Jones – LIE
MONICA – LIE,
BOSNIA – LIE,
COLUMBIA – LIE,
IRAQ VOTE – LIE,
NAFTA – LIE,
WRIGHT ONLY FRIEND OF OBAMA NOT CLINTON – LIE,
RUNNING FOR 2008 BUT NOT FOR 2012 – LIE
RACE CARD – LIE
RE-OPENING MI, FL VOTE – LIE
OBAMA AS VP – LIE
POPULAR VOTE – LIE
FERRARO – LIE
FARRAKHAN NOT FRIEND FOR ED RANDELL – LIE
$105 MILLION ASSET, 50% NOT FROM LOBBYISTS – LIE
ENDING IRAQ WAR – LIE
BILL, not intentionally “RACE CARD” topic every primary day to capture more WHITE VOTES – LIE
NOT FLIP-FLOPING ON OBAMA ELECTABILITY IN DEBATE vs RALLY – LIE
CLAIMING HER FAILED HEALTH INSURANCE UNIVERSAL – LIE
BILL “NOT” Bombing other countries 7 times day before Monica’s Court Appearance – LIE
HILLARY NOT USING 3AM Ad, “BIN LADEN” to use BUSH SCARE TACTICS – LIE
Last 20 YEARS its “BUSH+CLINTONS” like SADDAM HUSSAIN did to IRAQ REGIME. USA IS NOT REGIME – LIE
Do you really want to VOTE for 8 more years of these?

“Terry McAuliffe once threatened to strip Michigan of delegates” So what? he threatened, he didn’t, he was wrong, what is the issue?

It’s ridiculous that she wants to account FL and MG. She behaves like a kid playing games – wants to turn over what already made as a rule/voted for when she sees herself lost.
No account! If she insist, then half and half.

Boy I sure am glad to be an Independent. Reading these posts is enough to drive ANY sane, honest and reasonable person fromn the Democratic Party.
Continue with this and you will once again continue your glorious streak of stealing victory from the jaws of defeat and circular firing squads.
Hillary will not only lose the White House…but probably congress along with it.

VOTER “PHOTO ID” SHOULD BE REQUIRED IN ALL STATES.
OBAMA IS AFRAID TO DEBATE. HE CAN ONLY READ SPEECHES FROM A TELEPROMPTER — NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO BE OUR PRESIDENT!
WE HAVE 50 STATES — NOT 48! COUNT THEIR VOTES!
TODAY, THE DNC STRUCK A “MONEY DEAL” WITH OBAMA. THIS JUST MIGHT ASSURE HIM THE VOTES OF THE SUPER-DELEGATES. WE NEED TO GET RID OF DEAN, PELOSI, REID, KENNEDY AND KERRY.
HOW SAD FOR ALL AMERICANS. OUR VOTES DON’T MATTER — MONEY DOES!
THINK ABOUT TIES TO WRIGHT, AYERS, REZKO, FARRAKHAN, SINCLIAR, AMONG OTHERS!
WE NEED TO CLEAN OUT OUR WHITE HOUSE. WE NEED NEW REPRESENTATIVES FOR ALL 50 STATES! THINK BEFORE YOU VOTE FOR SENATORS AND CONGRESS MEMBERS.
VOTE HILLARY 2008!

Remember folks, some of the more bizarre and incendiary comments on these boards, and perhaps most of them, are from the Lush Rambo HRC for nominee contingent, right-wing nutcases many of them, Republican voters come fall every time. They are posing as both HRC backers and Obama backers in order to divide the Democrats and alienate us from sticking with the Dems if our choice is not the nominee. Don’t fall for it–Dems must unite when this is over.

The article is stating that “Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., has staked her path to the Democratic nomination on the officially illegitimate contests held in Michigan and Florida somehow being recognized, in opposition to Democratic National Committee rules.”
Look at what we have here, several Clinton supporting delusional fleeing from reality. She has lost…. I see dead people, it’s just they don’t realize they’re dead.