Is Obama McGovern? Are Clinton’s Negatives ‘All Out There’?

“Are Clinton’s Negatives ‘All Out There’?”
We are just scratching the surface with her.

When Obama was an unknown he benefited from an anybody-but-Hillary vote, and from the fact that he had a good message. Now Obama is known, and worse, he is being defined by his base of very liberal people, younger people, and Blacks. Moderate to conservative Democrats (Reagan Democrats)cannot identify with Obama or his base and will vote Republican, just as they did in the past. Bill Clinton was able to bring these voters back to the Democratic party by running, and governing, as a moderate. Despite her negatives, Hillary also has an appeal to these voters. Obama is going to continue to have a very hard time appealing to Reagan Democrats. If he loses them he loses in the Fall.

Nice article. No matter what – even Bill’s gaffes are good, and spot on. He is seemingly totally energized. Couple that with Hillary’s warmth, intelligence, and sense of humour, the Clintons make an awesome team. Hillary’08

Ok first of all the Demns are not for the poor or minirities as you can see by the reckless way they raise taxes, use the race card, causing the increase in cost of gas. They do not know how to lead, they believe it s people of the Government NOT Government of the People. Now saying that!
She is partially right a lot is already known about her, but how much more is hidden?
Obama well from what we know so far that he is a Hate America, Socialist Racist, crook has never won a real election blame america terorist friend, I think that is enough to say BYE-BYE to Obama!
Hey libs reverse if he was a Republican (white or Black) and what we found out about him would not you gutys be asking for his head!!
Come on you asked for the head of a Republican for just celebrating a 99 year old senators birthday when he was just trying to make the guy feel good!!
You threw Oreo cookies at Micheal Steele in Maryland!
Who are the racists again??

Absolutely, I’ve already stated it here on these boards: Obama is another McGovern.
McGovern is the reason the Superdelegates were formed – in order to prevent the far left of the party from pushing through an unelectable candidate.
Just how unelectable was McGovern? HE ONLY WON 1 STATE!

The Clintons haven’t run a national campaign since Bill was elected in 1996.
That means the Republicans haven’t used any material that has happened since 1996.
Think about everything that happened during Bill Clintons second-term. This hasn’t been exposed to Americans in weekly advertising, but it sure will be.
Even better, the Republicans will be able to use Hillary’s own campaign lines from this spring against her.
Anyone who thinks Americans have been exposed to the Clinton skeletons since 1996 doesn’t understand that 95% of the population tunes out the dirt that happens in Washington (except during an election).

I believe Obama is the riskier nominee and would absolutely lose the general election. With Clinton, not only are her negatives already out there, but she has proven that no matter how many times you knock her down, she will still get back up- this is a quality I want in a president.
I would have to agree thought that the Democratic Party is a total mess. If I didn’t believe in civil rights and social programs I would think of switching parties. Their message is mostly good, but their execution is horrible. If they would just have the primary follow the process that the general election does (i.e. winner takes all, no super delegates and counting all the states) there wouldn’t be these issues.
ocratic party is a total mess. If I didn’t believe in civil rights and social programs I would think of switching parties. Their message is mostly good, but their execution is horrible. If they would just have the primary follow the process that the general election does (i.e. winner takes all, no super delegates and counting all the states) there wouldn’t be these issues.

When MoveOn.org endorsed Obama, many moderate democrats left MoveOn.org. When the Rev. Wright videos came out and Obama lied about not knowing about these talks when he donated large sums to the church, conservative democrats moved over to Hillary. Blacks are apparently voting on race by and large … but other than that, he no longer has any large blocks of democrats who will vote for him.

The biggest winners in all this mess are Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. They absolutely love it, and now have figured out a way to fire up a reluctant Republican base, by encouraging turmoil through August. We’ve succeeded in tearing down the one hope that we had, Senator Obama (who once had super high favorability ratings and crossover support) and now neither he nor Hillary (who still carries historically high unfavorability ratings and distrust ratings) can win it against a relatively weak Republican, Senator McCain. We have shot off our noses to spite our faces. We get what we deserve, The DNC has no backbone or leadership. The democratic party allowed Hillary to tear down this party and any hopes of success this fall. So we should now just turn it over to Hillary and see what she can do to pick up the pieces? You don’t reward this kind of behavior. I think not.

The Clinton people have not seen anything yet. If she wins this McCain is going to open up her baggage. If people and the press will just do their work they will see that HIllary’s baggage is more damaging then Obama ever dreamed of. I find it so crazy that he gets racked over the coals on Rev. Wright, when, in fact Hillary and Bill are friends with Rev. Wright. Yes, people, he and Bill prayed together when Bill messed up with HIllary. Plus she has an court date coming up for stealing and hiding money. Yes, Hillary. Hillary, the media and the Democratic party needs to figure out how they are going to continue to hide her garbage… It is way deep.

All Hillary Haters – Bring on whatever you want about Hillary. American people have seen the days of Clinton and are happy with them.
Obama – We do not know him well. His associations are scary. Especially he associates with people who talk about hate towards White.
Vote for anyone except Obama.
Btw – Just wait for a video with Obama sitting in the Pew when his pastor preaches Hate … This will be the end of his campaign.

Mr. Tapper mocks Lanny Davis’ claim that Clinton never ran a personal attack ad against Obama in Pennsylvania, yet he fails to cite a single such ad to rebut this assertion. He relies on the impression the media has sown as his evidence. The only ad he mentions is the one he claims “featured” Osama Bin Laden– when in fact Bin Laden’s image appeared for less than a second, amidst a long list of images of challenges a president can face. This is not a personal attack ad anyway– Obama is never mentioned, the emphasis is on the challenges. A personal attack ad impugns the character of the opponent. Claiming to be better at dealing with challenges is not a personal attack.

I always laugh at Hillary fans saying that all of Hillary’s baggage is out there and that is why she is a better candidate to run against McCain.
The reality is that if Hillary is the nominee there will be a barrage of negativity the likes one has never seen that makes Reverend Wright look like child’s play. The Republicans have been gathering anti-Hillary material for YEARS…LOL!
Plus if it looks like the superdelegates GAVE the nomination to Hillary after Obama has won the pledged delegates, look to African-Americans staying home in the general election.
No Democrat can win the General Election without the African-American vote.
Thus Hillary Clinton with her 55% negative rating + GOP barrage of anti-Hillary ads + loss of the African-American vote in the Fall = BIG LOSS FOR HILLARY IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.

no rick
the end of this campaign is you all staring at pages and pages of investigations and scandals and lies and cover-ups…
all in the name of the Clintons.
You can spiout whatever spun race issues you want …the new Americans who want to get rid of the “me generation values” and crooked crap that the Clintons and the Bushes and all the rest have reinstated in Washington
has said
we know this is a revolution… we know change is hard…but it’s time and we are not going to let the old boys network and people’s fear of the safety of something old and familiar keep us going down this road to national destruction.
drag us along the side of the car but we will stop this out of control vehicle the Clintons and the Bushes have created.

Lexx
As the exit polls showed even with people voting for the familiar…
Clinton is the one who tries to win by attacking personal character and “patriotism”
Patriotism is putting the country first and yourself second…
can you name me one instance in their entire history where the Clintons did something for others over the good of themselves.
You can’t.
The only good they do is with things that help them politically or their legacy.
If it hurts them or puts them back a notch or two…they don’t.
The Clintons have never …yes NEVER put the party, the country or values and ethics ahead of themselves.
Go ahead look back …there is nothing in their history to argue ever that they did.

Karl Rove is 100% right about Obama. Hillary Clinton is actually working hard to get the nomination by going to the voters. Never ever give up like Jimmy V said. That is not going unnoticed either.

Hillary:
I won that double-digit victory that everybody on TV said I had to win, and the voters of Pennsylvania clearly made their views known, that they think I would be the best president and the better candidate to go against Sen. McCain.
[THE ONLY TROUBLE HERE IS THAT SHE ONLY WON BY 9 POINTS NOT 10, SHE MISSED THE MARK. IT LOOKS AS IF THE MEDIA IS BEING SPUN BY CLINTON'S PR PEOPLE TO HER TRUTHSPEAK. WHY IS BLACK NOW WHITE AND WRONG RIGHT? THE MATH IS CLEAR AND SHE MISSED.]

Obama is looking more and more like he can’t win this thing. and as far as roits in denver that would not be smart with Fort Carson and all of the bases they have.Hillary won the regan democrats in bucks county the soccer moms.

seah5 the problem is we don’t know who is pulling Clintons strings…
people voted for the familiar and yuo all just want to keep pushing Clinton down everyone’s throats. We have had enough …change is hard…but we are going to pull this country back and stop this car the Clintons and Bush’s have put us in…
yes it is change and change is hard…safety and comfort of even bad relationships are hard to get out of…but we are going to get us out of this 15 year cycle of sticking up for people that have never put the country ahead of themselves.
Ever. Like Isay give one…just one example where the Clintons did something for the nation over themselves.

the presidency is too important to take a risk with an unknown like barack obama. He is not one of us.

It looks to me that a lot of people are scared to vote for Obama because he wants to change things. Are we scared of change? Does change mean that we’ll have to change too? After more than a year, it’s not that we don’t know Obama. It’s more like we don’t want to know him. If more than 80% of us are unhappy with the direction our country is headed, we better get ready to help change a lot of things. God won’t damn America. We’ll do it ourselves. It’s past time to get over our prejudices and LEAD with a true LEADER. A LEADER with brutal integrity, fierce intelligence and outstanding courage: Barack Obama!

Thanks to this election cycle, the true ‘color’ of whites has come to the forefront.
Black people have been voting for white candidates since they were permitted to vote. So this campaign has become nothing but a joke.
When the Obama campaign office in PA had some materials delivered, some ignorant whites decided racial epithets were the way to go to bring home the ‘we don’t want to vote for this black man’ mantra. However, the volunteers at the Obama campaign office weren’t black, they were white. So they got to see just how ‘patriotic’ their race can be (forget the bs lapel pin).
All this is starting to hit home for black people in this country. We are seeing how easy it has become to destroy a nominee based on the color of his skin, based on guilt by association, based on words someone else speaks….those are the reasons we can use now to discredit him, instead of being truthful and blatant racists. But now we are able to see just how easy it is to apply the double standard and try to push forward the notion this is all somehow ‘fair’ by stating he doesn’t have enough experience. right.
(And I can say ‘we’ based on all the people I know that feel the same way, we’ve had enough.)
I know I will not vote for hillary clinton, and I now regret voting for bill. bill clinton is the reason george bush is the current president. But see….these are white candidates, and the double standard doesn’t apply to them. They can lie, cheat, and steal, and white people will still vote for them, as evidenced by both hillary AND bill. She cares about these people about as much as islamic terrorists care.
Enough is enough. The clintons are only concerned about power and getting BACK in the white house, and they don’t care who they step on to get there.

Bill is a wild card? Yep. But Michele as First Lady gives me the chills. A haughty demeanor and a condescending air – no wild card here, alright. I would rather put up with a first husbands antics that Micheles pained suffrance at becoming First Lady. She is not worthy of the position.

Midwest:
Good point. Better question: Who would you trust representing this country overseas, as the spouse of the President often does?
Mrs. McCain?
Michelle Obama?
Bill Clinton?
Bill gets my vote by a landslide. Mrs. McCain comes in second. Michelle Obama?

I can’t believe some people have the guts to say he can’t close the deal. Total BS. He came from far behind and took the nomination away from Hillary who couldn’t close it.
He can’t win big states! Another BS. Why can’t she win small states? Are they not counted? What an insult. Hillary says you people in small states are not really part of our democracy!
Republican are so scared of Obama that are going all out to help Hillary survive another day. Pathetic.

LA in Indiana: Why did it take you so long to see, or acknowledge anyway, the lies and deceptions of the Clintons? This stuff was obvious to anyone with two eyes and half a brain in ’90′s. As to why Obama can’t close the deal with “typical white folks” as he calls them, perhaps it has something to do with the types of people he’s been hanging with – such as his lunatic pastor – or maybe it has more to do with the utter contempt Obama displayed for them when he said that their religious faith, their affection for guns, and their desire to protect the country’s borders is borne from the frustration of joblessness and government neglect. The man has simply shown himself to be an arrogant jerk.

To bad no one has spoken about the women who are voting for Hillary all the blacks are voting for Obama and that is ok with me because most women over 45 and some younger are voting for Hillary why didn’t some one do the math white middle aged women are voting for Hillary and bringing are husbands with. This race is more about gender for us.

I wonder how some of you sleep at night. There has never been this much gossip online in regards to the previous presidents are candidates. But because we all have access to the computers we choose to spend all of our time bickering back in forth like bitter individuals. Vote for the candidate of your choice and stop the nonsence.

Black people voting for Obama is more like rooting for the first person to go to college in your Family. He is more like a hero to them. There is hardly any policy difference between him and Hillary anyway.

Could we get some real analysis here? Also, It would be great if commentators were really interested in the issues of the race and comparing records and solutions rather than a 1972 candidate to one in the later first decade of the 21st Century.

Lanny Davis is a hypocrite and should be very ashamed of himself. thanks for pointing out his misstatements and stupidity.

People who keep repeating the “talking points” about Obama’s controversies should take a breather. I beg of you people to stop and think for yourselves. Let me tell you where I am coming from, in my business I manage very large projects that includes 100′s of people working on the project to accomplish a very complex set of tasks, I spend all my day dealing with people who have attitudes, beliefs, personalities, and backgrounds that may seem alien to mainstream folks. But as a manager, I realize that it is my job to bring the best out of them and have them get along only to accomplish a goals that cannot be met if these differences between them were allowed to interfere. A leader has to do this no matter how “weired” some of these people may seem on the surface. What the detractors from Obama’s message want you to believe is that his pastor or whoever he dealt with reflects who he is. If that can be remotely the case, then I am as weird as they come and I would not have accomplished any project. A good leader does not alienate people because they are not mainstream, to the exact contrary, he works harder to bring them to follow him. I respect that in Obama and it falls inline with his core message about unity and working together .. a proof that he practices what he advocates.

See what I mean….
The only association Obama has with Farrakhan is attending the Million Man March. That march was intended to build and stabilize black families, for black men to identify and overcome their issues. Strengthening the struggling black family was the point.
But they want to crucify Obama for just ‘knowing’ Farrakhan. Sure, everyone ‘knows’ him.
Is there the same scrutiny for Rendell ‘praising’ Farrakahn for this type work?
Is there any scrutiny for bill clinton ‘praising’ Farrakhan?
Again, the double standard is stifling.
Obama didn’t hire Bill Ayers to work at the university….but he does know Ayers and they worked on the same board. Ayers donated $200.00 to Obama in 1995, Obama’s first political run. But somehow Obama is now related to an ‘unrepetant terrorist’ to hear Sean Hannity beat the dead horse.
No matter how many times Obama explains that TUCC is more than its pastor, its not enough….simply because his skin is brown.
I see no one is concerned about bill clintons ties to trade with Colombia, nor his ties with arabs, nor his terrorist pardons when he left office. No concern for hillary’s lies.
The double standard is blatant, but whites are still trying to justify. Totally disingenuous.

With 99.51% of the vote counted in Pennsylvania Hillary Clinton received 1,238,232 votes and Barack Obama received 1,030,703, a winning margin for Clinton of 207,529. But how many of Clinton’s votes were actually phantom votes from McCain supporters who will vote for McCain in November, but who had purposely changed their registration from Republican to Democrat for the primary to vote for Clinton and artificially boost her standing in hopes of causing trouble for the Democrats, Rush Limbaugh’s “Operation Chaos”? This happened previously in Texas, Ohio, and Mississippi with one estimate of 40,000 false votes cast for Clinton in Mississippi. How much of Clinton’s supposed “support” is really only tactical Republican phantom votes for Clinton?

While you all try to blame race, the fact of the matter America is a centrist populace. Clintons are the masters of it and even working with Republicans to get things done even in the midst of the ‘scandals’.
To expect, however, that Obama will get some kind of pass in the minute he hits the Presidency and that is upbove race, party, religion, etc. It is delusional. Obama’s glass jaw, and a man who wears grudges on his face and actions, won’t be able to get anything done with Republicans who will not be seen working with him on his liberal agenda. The fact of the matter, since Bush has hauled his Admin so far to the right, those Republicans aren’t going to give up all the deregulation that is making them and their cronies millions. However, Obama doesn’t even look like he is threatening to take that on, when you look at who he is surrounding himself with. They just look like people waiting for their piece of the pie Obama claims he has made for the masses. Yet, looking into his Illinois’ record, he turns on the masses and pays off those who paid his bills. Smart for Obama, bad for us, just ask those people who froze in those slums.
As Obama has proven he doesn’t know how most of this stuff impacts the other, while the other side is well versed. I don’t want a policy idiot claiming to fight for me. That isn’t odds I like to in order to get effective results.
As I look into his plans, he thinks he can tax us out of this, which is also naive. Americans are losing jobs, houses, and the value of the dollars in their wallet. Which is already decreasing the tax base in many towns across the country, but Obama wants to steal from those towns for Federal programs. I would rather have taxes for my local schools, police, and firemen than making sure the Feds have more of my tax dollars. That is flat out theft from the states already hurting.
His $500 tax break for the middle class is an insult in the face of all the other tax increases.

one funny thing…
WHY MUST we count florida and Michigan voters, in un-santioned Primaries…BUT….caucus voters in MANY STATES will NOT be counted? HOW is THAT FAIR?
Why is it we only count States and votes that are to the benefit Clinton?
Because she is stealing this nomination, that’s why. And will do so at any cost, through any means.
DISGRACEFUL!

Higher negatives – about likeability mean nothing to me. You don’t get to this level in the political world without sharp elbows.
The truth is women get judged more harshly than men – that’s the challenge.
What impresses me lately about Clinton is that she is a fighter – she’s shown that you can’t knock her down. That’s what we need for the Presidentcy – someone smart, willing and able to make those tough decisions and stand by them. She is definitely a fighter
Even conservative, republican commentators have a grudging respect for Clinton’s resiliency.
Negatives? – who cares!!!!!

cheryl
States that have caucuses do so voluntarily. There’s no law compelling them to do so. If those states wanted to change their method of selecting candidates, they would do so.
Pretty simple!

Robert,
hillary will find out about those phantom votes should she become the nominee.
Republicans will come out in droves, and for the most part, black people insulted by the racists in the dem party, will stay home. I am one of those that will just stay home. The clintons let me know in no uncertain terms, they really don’t need my vote to win.
I feel sorry for them trying to make nice after the fact to ‘heal the party’. lol what a joke. They can go to hell.
I am no longer a democrat, but will sport the Independent label.

Centre County (PA) Resident here:
60%-40% in favor of Obama. We have
89 precincts. Many farming, rural,
a few significantly economically depressed, PSU is a small part of
an unusually large county. Hunting and religion are mighty important. Nonetheless, Obama was ahead from
about the first 1/2 of reporting
ACROSS MORE THAN 80 PRECINCTS and ended up 20 points up. Only thing that changed was the increasing
size of his lead over time. Liberal and
student precincts are mainly in State College Borough where the University was. This was across the board support. Obama drew 22,000 here; Hillary drew 1,500.

60 out of 67 win. You talk as if She won 100% to 0. All her wins have been very close ones anyway. This is why Obama leads in delegate count.
Obama will all the traditionally democratic states and most of the swing states if democrats unite after the primaries with the help of Obama republicans.

Right on Shorwoodian! I live in Wisconsin too and agree that if the press had attempted to vet him earlier we would have seen diffrent results here and many other states as well. The MSM has certainly affected this primary with their biased reporting.

LA in Indiana,
I have been reading these truly angry and mean comments from you for the past hour about the Clintons and I have to wonder, how you can simply write off all the work the Clintons have done over the course of their lives on behalf of civil rights and progress for African Americans?

Shore….Obama used the political system to get rid of his opponent(s) in that particular. But because he used it, and it worked for him, its now considered cheating??
No…what hillary clinton is attempting to do is cheating. Changing the rules in mid-game is considered cheating. That which most of you don’t seem to have a problem with.

cali girl,
I didn’t ‘smear’ bill clinton….he smeared himself. It is not a smear to talk about him pardoning terrorists. I didn’t make it up….he did pardon terrorists…hispanic terrorists. Since you have read up on all the republican talking points, you are literate enough to read up on that I’m sure. Don’t just avoid it because it doesn’t work for you.
Ayers has not endorsed Obama and Ayers has not donated to Senator Obama’s campaign. They are/were collegues in the same university, live in the same neighborhood.
So again…what is it here, besides guilt by association? They know each other. What has Obama done or said that would give the impression he believes anything having to do with the Weather Underground??
Absolutely nothing. Which makes you look even more transparent….but I’m sure you’ll keep trying.

FEAR??? That ad was great. It spoke to the people of Pennsylvania who being older experienced the Depression, Pearl Harbor, as well as a 9-11 plane crashing. And why is it wrong to bring up Osama bin Laden… who to date is still free???… That used to be a regular image for bashing Bush.
Not fear politics, but addressing experience and leadership. Hillary is now being “begrudgingly respected” by the GOP pundits for her toughness and tenacity.
Hillary is connecting with the voters who will decide the general election… Obama and his ilk keep complaining that these voters are just not smart enough and/or are responding emotionally.
P.S. The Bosnia “fish” story or Bill’s alleged slip-ups do not compare to his 20+ year association with Wright or his comparing Senator Coburn to a guy who bombed public buildings.

“Obama used the political system to get rid of his opponent(s) in that particular [election]. But because he used it, and it worked for him, its now considered cheating??”
If not “cheating”, betraying one’s (black) female mentor to run with rich white people doesn’t exactly compute with the tender candidate’s claim to be above politics-as-usual.
I don’t suppose un-rich young and/or black voters in North Carolina and Indiana will become familiar with the details of this story — but if they DID know about it, the frothy post-partisan’s “black skin privilege” might not do him any good.
This guy may look “black”, but so what?

The Dems’ fight is the fight between anti-clintons and pro-clintons…
Every one knew Obama is just a puppet used by anti-clintons…

NIckberry,
Thanks for the analysis. I would add that many voters who voted Obama in the primaries would now take back that vote based on later disclosures. He just was not vetted before being crammed down the throats of the voters. HOPE, CHANGE? More like FURY, ANARCHY, a la Ayers, Dohrn.

If Obama is elected president, who do you think he’ll pardon on his way out. All the Islamic terrorists now under lock and key perhaps?

Clinton/Obama ’08–unstoppable
Obama alone–we’re sunk. Those two GOP negative ads yesterday are just the beginning.

“obama would not have won many early states if the media had done their job… now that all of his skeletons are out of the closet he can’t win dem primary”
There is NO reason to believe “all of his skeletons are out of the closet” — and “the media” is certainly responsible for that, and for cutting John Edwards out of the election.
Is the Democratic “leadership” determined to throw the election to the Republicans AGAIN? It seems so, and one constant is the John Kerry factor. Remember that Kerry (with a big assist from the mass media) sabotaged Dean at the … Iowa caucuses, which is just where the media manufactured the Obama “phenomenon”.
If the primaries were beginning NOW, how different the outcome would be! The arguments over “popular vote” — I’m not up-to-speed on who’s claiming WHAT on this today — should take this, and the difference between open and closed primaries, into account.
If I were Howard Dean, I believe I’d have a nationwide poll of DEMOCRATS only, as to which original Democratic candidate they’d prefer, knowing what they know NOW (we certainly know a lot more about Obama, Bill Richardson and Dennis Kucinich at this point; Mike Gravel has left the Democratic Party to run as a Libertarian). Just for the sake of history, you know.
the way to get the Democrats

TO YOUNG COLLEGE-STUDENT VOTERS: Please learn from the mistakes of the past. I am a liberal academic, have great respect for college students, and was a college student, myself, during the Weather Underground years. As students, we shouted down any attempts to make our anti-war candidate account for his positions before he ran against the Republican opponent. We were aggressive in demanding that middle-America see things as we, in our idealism, did (“Power to the People!”) Having little handle on how conservative most Americans were (compared to us), and having been teenagers when the last Republican machine did it’s thing, we were shocked to find out that “right is might” didn’t quite make it when our candidate won Massachusettes (and that’s all.)
I am all for young voters choosing their candidate for whatever reason they wish. The point is that I also hope that young voters acknowledge that Superdelegates have a right to vote for the candidate that they want to vote for for whatever reason they choose. Please avoid making the mistake we did in 1972 – using threats and intimidation to force the nomination of a candidate who may be least likely to win in the General Election. While there is no draft, partly due to no one wishing to address the issue of Selective Service registration for women, important student loan legislation, the high cost of tuition and other economic policies make it important to honestly assess the “electability” of each Democrat. Please encourage you favorite to answer questions put to him/her rather than shouting down the questioners.

calli girl
“one set of rules for him and another for everybody else”
and yuo are trying to say that is Obama?
I do not think you are even close.
You aresupporting hillary right? and you are trying to say it is “OBAMA” that has 2 sets of rules..
It is well documented that the system of counting delegates that was worked on 2 and a half years ago was created by the people that are running Hillary’s campaign! It is well documented that she said they would not count and she agreed when she thought it didn’t matter…because it didn’t affect HER.
Now we have a situation where she may get hurt so she suddenly cares about her voters. Does that not disgust you? She only cares about your vote when it effects HER. Just like everything else. She wants rules when they protect HER.
I would love for you to tell me one…just ONE… one time where the Clintons had the choice of hurting themselves or hurting the nation where they put the nation first.
When have they ever put the welfare of anyone, anything, values, morals, voters, family, children, friends ahead of their own welfare.
Name me one. Does it not scare you that unless you make one up…you can’t.
Even this Clinton Foundation where all their charitable contribution went has not really distributed anything of substance…but Bill has sure flown all over the world on it…and while he was there you know he might as well raise money for his library and support for his wife’s campaign.
Name me one time where they had the choice not to hurt the nation, their party or an associate or hurt themselves when they didn’t choose the CLINTONS
and that sums up how you all are being once again duped in this race… it is all about the Clintons…not the issues.

Cindy, one thing we have leaned this go around is we can not trust the polls.

Liberal Academis yes it is true that the superdelegates can vote their will…but it is also true their vote and creation and purpose stemming from the creation of the committee that created them…stated in their directive that, that committee was created to make the party MORE democratic not less…and to reinforce culpability to the voters and members of the party. there fore to represent members of the party’s will.
Go look up why the Sloan Committee was created…not what Ferraro keeps telling people it’s creation was but the documents that outline the purpose of the committee itself and why the superdelegates were created.
It was not for them to overturn the votes as many keep trying to spin now.
It was to make sure that things like a candidate who agreed to play by the rules whose name was on a beauty pageant election…or on a ballot where other peoples weren’t did not find some way of “workign the rules” and didn’t try to work numbers that were in direct violation of the spirit of the election.
So if anyone should be overruled it is Hillary… in fact if everyone actually read those documents they would see it is almost the supers responsibility to end this for Hillary now because her campaign is not in the direct purpose of helping the party when she can’t beat him in pledged delegates which in the spirit of the Sloan committee is the direction the supers are supposed to vote for barring manipulation of the system.

ABOUT FLORIDA:
THE ONLY DEMOCRAT TO CAMPAIGN THERE ..ALBEIT HE CLAIMS IT WAS “BY ACCIDENT”.. WAS OBAMA..
… AND YET…. DESPITE HER ‘NEGATIVISM’… HILLARY WON!
GO FIGURE!

to make the point for the general election and the person winning the larger states. in the general election the delegates are doled out as winner-take-all, not proportionally as in the primary. if you go back and add the total delegates for each state to the candidate with the most vates in that state(without super delegates) it comes out something like:
hillary 1800+ delegates
bho 1100+ delegates.
so, who will do better in the general election??????????

John McCain just pulled a negative campaign ad against Obama because wants to run a “clean” campaign! Can you imagine what happens if Clinton wins the nomination, and in facing McCain she comes off as the negative campaigner, and McCain as the positive campaigner?? We will have democrats abandoning us in droves to join McCain!! McCain is not stupid, and he saw the power of Positive campaigning when its done right by Obama. The clintons can’t help but be aggressive and negative, and the result will be that he will “obliterate” her(to quote her recent sickening comments on Iran).

yes, dl, it worries me alot! we are talking known acquantences with terrorists in this country, having them fundraise for you(where is the money from), and even being on your website with your wife as a “friend” of the terrorist!
Starr and his group spent years and 40 million dollars looking for something to get the clintons on. they did not. that is far more investigation in to shadiness then we will ever get about obama, et al.

All of Hillary’s baggage are not out there. Obama could run ads about Whitewater, or “I chose not to cook”, or her sitting at Walmart meetings during Union bashing, clapping with approval, or Travelgate, or stealing stuff from the WHitehouse on the way out the door, or the pardons-for-money scandal… the list GOES ON.
People know about these things, but Obama graciously has not reminded people of these things. A few ads reliving the mess of the 90s… the losing Congress to Republicans, the IMPEACHMENT trial, the disbarred former president coaching Hillary. There is more and more and more.
If you think Republicans won’t run on this stuff, you’re crazy. It’s one thing to say people are aware of her baggage, but the public has not been reminded of these things lately. Maybe it should…

pp “where is the money from”?
You are kidding…you are asking that about Obama…lol did you realize that your candidate is Hillary (and her husband let me fly around the world with some really bad leaders and get them things to have them help me) …the woman who has not released LAST years tax returns or anything from the Clinton Library…
we hav eno idea what very large strings the Clintons have set up…and the way they are campaigning …that they have to have this… might just be , don’t ya think, that they promised some pretty hefty favors and if they don’t win someheads may roll.
Obama donor questions you are funny Hillary person… pshaw.

dl
I believe it is the Hunt Commission, of which Geraldine Ferraro was a made a member for some reason, presumably due to her stature. We agree that the unpledged delegates have a right to vote for whomever they wish. My point is that intimidation and threats are counter-productive, and both candidates should be encouraged to take and answer all questions put to them. That way, the unpledged delegates will be better informed. No one need take my advice.

dl,
Obama has been messing with rules all over the country too.
Blame one but not the other…doesn’t fly with me.
Hillary has never sued other Democratic candidates completely off of the rolls however.
That is subverting choice and democracy, like it or not.

dl,
The Superdelegates don’t want to end this now, as much as you think. They get ‘goodies’ from the candidates. Obama has spent three times as much as Hillary has on Superdelegates.
So, it isn’t in their best interests to come out now, but rather wait until the country has spoken. They have to get re-elected as well, so it would be stupid to come out against Hillary if their district actually votes for.
This ruse that Superdelegates are going to shoot themselves in the foot is being spewed by people who don’t understand the process.
Or who are trying to help Obama and his typical campaign tactic of clearing the rolls for himself.

I am a rural, small-town American. I’m not bitter. I don’t carry a gun but I do believe in the Holy Bible and God.
Hillary won in Pennsylvania, despite being outspent by Obama’s “mega bucks” and bombardment on TV, radio, internet ads, phone calls, etc., etc., because we believe Hillary to be the better candidate — pure and simple. True Americans cannot be bought!
Hillary was GREAT in the Pennsylvania debate — Obama did quite poorly.
OBAMA HAS REFUSED TO DEBATE IN NORTH CAROLINA. He apparently can only read a pretty scripted speech from a teleprompter — And he wants to run our country??? NO WAY!
Does he plan to have Jeremiah Wright spewing “God Damn America” from the White House? It’s bad enough he did it in a church of God.
Are Obama’s frequent visitors going to be their anti-American, terrorist friends: bomber Ayers, Farrakhan, Rezko, among others?
We need someone to show respect to ALL Americans, regardless of where they live.
GOD BLESS AMERICA — HILLARY 2008!

Etch,
I don’t watch FoxNews, but I do read many sources. Both left, right, and alternative.
However, most of the info about Obama can be found in Chicago newspapers or other local sources.
In past boards, I also posted about Obama taking credit for other people’s work or coming into committees asking questions that have already been settled, in an attempt to look like he contributed. That was in the NYT and sourced by Sen Spector and apparently was within the committee transcripts. Spector also points to Hillary as doing such things.
Of course Spector came up with the single bullet theory, and the NYT help to lie us into war, so you can decide for yourself.
Read something beyond his website and there is a lot of information out there on everyone.

I do genuinely believe that recent history tells is that experienced candidates are just as likely to get shot down as fresh ones (if not more so!) by the GOP attack dogs. Both Gore and Kerry had a long list of positive achievements behind them, far longer many would say than Hillary Clinton’s, and both got harsh treatment. Actually I think the best candidates to run against the attack machine are fairly less well known candidates (Bill Clinton in 1992 didn’t get nearly as much venom, all things taken into account, as the last 2 democratic party candidates.) (Mathew Dowd wrote about this in some detail on this very website.) And why do you suppose the right wing media, and the GOP attack machine, aren’t keeping there powder dry on Obama? Maybe they want Obama out of the picture so they can shoot at Clinton? Surely if he was such a flawed candidate they would be happy to face him and happy to lay off the attacks till he has the nomination.
I feel the comparrison to McGovern, or Dukakis for that matter is a bit harsh in general. Both McGivern and Dukakis were running fairly well at various points in the campaign. McGovern’s campaign fell apart with a terrible VP pick, Dukakis led by 18 points coming out of the DNC, I don’t think its fair right now to be looking at voting patterns and assuming they are set until november. McCain is getting a free ride right now, what happens when the Democratic attack machine starts really firing at him? What happens if the RNC isn’t as united as it might be behind McCain?

Senator Clinton will do anything to win and she can not be TRUSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!

An ABC/Post poll from 4-16-08 showed that 54% of voters had an unfavorable view of Clinton, up from 40% in January. “No presidential candidate with negatives in the high 40s, let alone in the mid 50s, is going anywhere after an election but home.”

crisis08, I am tired of folks calling Hillary a “fighter”. The only thing she is fighting for is her own political future. When has she ever fought for something that has not benefitted her politically? When has she ever won one of those “fights”. Fighting does not equal accomplishment.

Indy_voter,
Could you mention of Obama’s accomplishment?
CBS news once reported both of their acomplishment.
Obama could not press any button, he failed most of them.

Sen. Barak Obama and the news media want Americans to believe that his 24/7 ads on all networks, newspapers, and all black stations, posted ads 3 to 1 over Sen. Hillary Clinton.
The math does not match what Obama and the news media wants Americans to believe. Just look at one of Obama flyers mailed to potential voters. Then try to convince anyone that anyone other than Obama is truly negative.

if i’m not mistaken, i believe that PA is as of yet the only primary to happen after all of Obama’s controversies and negatives poured out.
my question is, if we were to question Obama’s supporters of past contests, ask them to vote again, would we see a decline for Obama even amongst his supporters?
i think “buyers remorse” is a real phenomenon after all these controversies. and that doesn’t bode well for the fall… at all.

After seeing Obama give Hillary “the finger” on You Tube, I won’t vote for him if he is the nominee. He has no class. He is arrogant, cocky, and immature. I’ll be writing in Hillary’s name in November because I believe she’s the best person for the job. She has a lot of flaws, but I trust her on the economy, healthcare, and national security. Obama has nothing in his background that backs up his claim that he will provide “change”.

crisis08, You are the one making the claim that Hillary is such a fighter…if she is such a fighter she must have accomplished so much for her supporters….I have seen no results…As for Obama’s accomplishments I will leave that to the more ardent Obama supporters, a group I am not one of. I am just tired of the Clintons and their arrogance and hypocrisy..