Obama Disputes Clinton’s Popular Vote Count

Abstract Measure? Will those democrats be Abstract to you in November, there, Barak. After all, the took the time to stand in line and vote. Almost 3 million of them.. ready to throw them under the bus with Grandma for a win?
Change we can believe in.

The only decision that was made regarding Michigan and Florida was that the delegates would not be seated. The popular vote still counts. In Florida, only Obama campaigned by airing television commercials for three weeks. In Michigan, Obama and Edwards decided to take their names off the ballot. The point is that the delegate issue still has to be resolved, but the popular votes must be counted in the totals. Obama did not want a re-vote in Michigan and Florida, and worked against it. Certainly Obama cannot want to disenfranchise the voters in Florida and Michigan, since these states are needed to win the General Election.

Obama said on Wednesday, the day after a double digit defeat in the Pennsylvania primary, said he would leave it to reporters to “sort thought the various permutations of what should count and what shouldn’t that the Clinton camp is presenting.”
That’s very brave of you Obama. Of course, only the votes in Your Favor should count, the ones for Hillary should be thrown under the bus with grandma.
Did Obama commit to another debate while he was at it? No? Wimp.
GO HILLARY 08!

He’s such a hypocritical jerk. He wants the superdelegates to go to person who is winning the popular vote, but even though Hillary won the popular vote in Texas and Nevada he’s okay with getting more delegates there because of the screwy way the distributed them. Florida is not an abstract state, it is the state that has decided the presidential election twice. But he’s content to tell those voters their votes don’t count now. He’s a self-absorbed, arrogant jerk. I’m so sick of hearing that somehow Hillary’s the bad guy because she won’t give up. He cannot win the big states, he cannot win the swing states and despite having 3 times has much money as she does, he still got his rear kicked last night. He cannot win the general election.

Go home Hillary the Bosnian General, go, the pocket is empty, Penn has to be paid but the Colombian government cannot give you more money for your campaign nor can the Saudis and people from Dubai and the Emirats. People who you want to protect against Iran without their request to do so. Feramonger and warmonger Hill, good luck in the senate. God bless America and God bless obama.OBAMA08.

FACT: Mr Obama worked his yung adult life AND his early years asa civil rights DEFENDER. He worked tirelesly to register voters in Illinois to back Then candidate Bill Clinotn.Mr.Obama’s RECORD is one of DEFENSEin the protection of VOTERS RIGHTS. YET…FACT: MR Obama WAS on the Michigan ballot and REMOVED is name;not anyone’s fault but his own!! ANDhe REFUSES to allow the votes of AMERICNS IN MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA; as if these AMERICANS don’t even exist. AMERICANS… DEMAND that ALL poplar votes be counted. Do NOT support OBAMA’s disenfranchisement of AMERICANS’VOICES and their votes..

IF Obama were truly for all people he would let the votes and delegates count. Just goes to show he talks out of both sides of his mouth. So much for that Hope and Change BS. In the end I am sure the DNC will make sure that both votes and delegates count. Unless they are really that stupid.

Riiight!!!!!!!
Sure obama, start “questioning” the Hillary Clinton campaign – AGAIN!
When you are challenged that’s all you can do, spew out the meaningless words. How about another magnificent speech right about now? You know, just like the one on race that you so magnificently gave? That speech (words again – no substance) put you back in the race for president?
Wrong!
Your true self came out in the debate with Clinton where she stomped you into the dirt. Hillary Clinton wiped that smirk off your face – at last!
Go Hillary
Drop out now obama – you’ve done enough damage to the Democratic party and in playing the race card to divide this nation. Get out and go away.
Hope and Change? Worthless, un-backable words – words, words, words, no action.
There is no “beef” to you obama – just empty words.
Go make some more kool aid for your cult followers so they can start spewing more hate for Clinton on these blogs.

Wendy….good post.

is anyone as sick of this as i am. i’m not voting for mccain. that’s all i care about. Who it is, i don’t care. End it.

She won PA by 8.6% at the last count which certainly is not double digits (over 10%).
Clinton seems to have serious math problems.
Perhaps she is too busy planning the nuking of Iran to bother with such trivia.
As if the Middle Easterners don’t have enough problems (that includes Israel), they have a deranged future President who will leave them with a nuclear winter.

Is it any wonder that Hillary would, once again, stretch the truth?
She truly is a “congenital liar” ….

commonsensenj – Obama has won several contests in the last two months. What are you talking about?

GREAT ANSWER OBAMA. HILLARY IS UNELECTABLE AND CA NOT WIN THIS NIMINATION.
O OBAMA ’08.

GREAT ANSWER OBAMA. HILLARY IS UNELECTABLE AND CA NOT WIN THIS NIMINATION.
GO OBAMA ’08.

please hllary just let it go
in no way you can win the nomination

Actually, they shouldn’t count – neither candidate campaigned in those states and Obama was not even on the ballot in MI. In FL people were voting to lower property taxes – there was a record turn out and it was for that, NOT for Hillary. The election was so early that without the campaigning, none of us knew anything about Obama to vote for him.
I’m sure it would be a much different outcome if the election were held today in those two states….. except in S Florida where those idiot old Dems don’t know HOW to vote for the candidate they want.

It’s amazing how everyone wants to focus on the popular vote and who has it. The DNC rules say the person with the most delegates wins… period. It also says Michigan and Florida delegates do not count… period. If Hillary tries to BREAK THE RULES, then I guess she wants McCain to win in November !

The people of FL and MI did not go out to vote it was just a figment of our imagination, a make believe vote so no need to count these invisible votes, they are not important, you cant claim something that you cant see, they were not counted and they were never registered as votes.
Man this piece of work the call Obama, it will give me the greatest pleasure is voting against him in any GE.

By Hillary saying that the Florida and Michigan delegates and votes should count, she is actually helping the party, not hurting it. There are obviously very angry people right now in Michigan and Florida who feel that their votes should count and by dismissing them like Obama has, it only makes them less likely to vote at all or vote for the Democratic nominee when it really counts. Obama knows that if Florida and Michigan counted, he would be losing in popular vote, delegate vote and he would be the loser. Both of their names were on the ballot in Florida- count it. Obama ran ads in the state and now that it turns out that he lost he is using it as an excuse to dismiss them. Talk about unifying the party- if Obama would count all of the people and all of the votes and states, then maybe there really could be a unified party. Nice try Obama but once again you show how much of a double-standard your campaign is.

The popular vote doesn’t really mean anything, but up until recently, that’s all Obama kept blathering about. Now that Clinton is rightfully making a point that technically factoring in the votes she got in both the MI and FL primaries actually puts her over Obama’s touted popular vote myth, he’s throwing a hissy-fit. And, he and he alone opted to have his name removed from the ballots. And, Clinton never campaigned in either MI or FL, contrary to the fabrications and lies the Obama camp are trying to present. Obama is ticked off that a girl is giving him a royal political run for something he’s totally inexperienced and unqualified for. Even if Obama wins any remaining states, he still won’t have enough delegates. The so-called super-delegates will have to decide. And, like it or not, the president is always elected by the electoral college vote and not the popular vote and the larger states that Clinton has won are in fact what is relevant. Obama has failed to win any of the meaty states, except for IL. I hope Obama ratchets up the negative, because Clinton won’t put up with this and will throw it right back at him, which is another reason why Obama is afraid of any more debates.

the american people deserve better than bush-clinton-bush-clinton like they are the only smart familly in the country.
by the way was she a first lady or a cabinet member?

More Math:
I’m not a statistician (and I’ll provide my assumptions later) but what do you make of these numbers? Obama spent a WHOPPING $ 1.6 million PER DELEGATE GAINED in the Pa. race.
YIKES. seems like he’s got money to burn.

Yes, Hillary leads in the popular vote
Yes, Hillary beat Obama by 12.3%
Yes, true Democrats vote for Hillary
Yes, Obama lost union, catholic, male, female, senior vote
No He Can’t
Nader/Obama 08

Math Assumptions:
215,166 vote differential between HRC and BO(represents 10% margin); 107,583 votes is 50 % of that differential. $ 11 million spent by BO (YIKES); delegates awarded 81 vs. 69 (conservatively 15,554 voters/delegate; used the 107,583 voters to yield 6.7 delegates to represent BO’s GAIN.
Someone more savvy than I could probably do a more sophisticated job – but $ 1.6 million PER DELEGATE GAINED – UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!

How does Obama want the votes to count when he has refused to do so, he has refused all effort to have a re-vote, and not talking this crap about its a abstract measure.
People in FL just did not go out to vote for a property tax and then just said oh look there are also names on this ballot so let me vote, they are not dumb they all knew very well they were also voting in a primary.

Everybody should feel real sorry for Michelle after the way this country has treated her.
Let’s see. She wants to move out of a 2 million dollar home and move in the white house but the country ain’t saying it’s “your equal turn” like they did at Princeton. Just move out and let her have it. Just give it to her.

This is America.
How can you exclude MILLIONS of voters to select the president.
Hillary is winning.
Hilary 08!!

Yeah, Sam, all that peace and prosperity of the Clinton years were a drag. We really need a change from that, so I agree with you about Obama; why don’t we try to elect an inexperienced, deceptive, ruthless racist for President. I’m sure he can do much better than the Clinton years.

Sounds like Bush and the 2000 election year. We’re going to lose based on a technicality. What the super delegates should look at is the fact that of the people who actually came out and voted, Hillary is ahead in the popular vote. The fact that the DNC and Obama are disenfranchising their own party is incredulous.

What you guys do not know is that clinton and his campaign are using your money to get rich. do not beleive me?
Check how much she paid her associate compare to how much barack paid his.
and at the end he still winning

The reason clinton wants to count the votes in FL and MI, she wants Obama to be confused and make a big mistake. This is getting old it’s all reruns and broken records same old stuff.
Demhypocrisy: Obama’s state wins 30 lost 15, Delegate count 1715 +/-, Negatives are way down, Better nominee
Clinton’s state wins 15 lost 30, Delegate count 1585 +/-, Negatives way up. Not a good nominee.
Fund Raising Obama beats Clinton or McCain Expediently. Answer, Obama $250m, Clinton $150m, McCain $50m
Registering new voters Obama beats Clinton or McCain. Answer, More people have voted in the history of voting because of Obama being in the race without that hum drum race no excitement.
Bring the country together Obama beats Clinton or McCain. Answer, Clinton or McCain can’t bring the Senate let alone the Country
Overall, Obama beats Clinton or McCain. Anwser, Obama has a war chest on money, Clinton is bankrupt, McCain is looking for money with a tin cup.
Race against McCain, Obama better nominee. Answer, McCain best days are behind him he’s too old.
Ending the War in Iraq, Obama will, Hillary or McCain wont. Answer, Bush and McCain want the war to continue for another 50 or 100 years because Bush is a Oilman and McCain is looking for donations
Obama all the way!

Obama is totally damaged by Wright. No one can get over that he sat in that church for 20 years listening to that drivel. It is no wonder that race relations haven’t improved any more than they have in this country. Somebody is “bitter” and “clinging” and it isn’t small town America. Blacks in America will always be “slaves” if they can’t find a way to move on and with leaders like Wright, that doesn’t look likely to happen any time soon. Imigrants come from all over the world seeking the American dream but what they have going for them is a positive attitude and although they suffer slights and hardships, they find they can prevail.

Seriously, this has to stop. They should just stop the race with Obama as presidental candidate and Clinton as the VP. That would be the perfect pair

Abstract measure? Isn’t this for a nomination of 50 states of the USA? And obama chose to take his name off of the ballot for Michigan to try an make Hillary look bad in Iowa. Now who’s looking bad now?

Hillary has been lying from day one!
Figures don’t lie – but liars can figure.

reason clinton wants to count the votes in FL and MI, she wants Obama to be confused and make a big mistake. This is getting old it’s all reruns and broken records same old stuff.
Demhypocrisy: Obama’s state wins 30 lost 15, Delegate count 1715 +/-, Negatives are way down, Better nominee
Clinton’s state wins 15 lost 30, Delegate count 1585 +/-, Negatives way up. Not a good nominee.
Fund Raising Obama beats Clinton or McCain Expediently. Answer, Obama $250m, Clinton $150m, McCain $50m.
Registering new voters Obama beats Clinton or McCain. Answer, More people have voted in the history of voting because of Obama being in the race without that hum drum race no excitement.
Bring the country together Obama beats Clinton or McCain. Answer, Clinton or McCain can’t bring the Senate let alone the Country.
Overall, Obama beats Clinton or McCain. Anwser, Obama has a war chest on money, Clinton is bankrupt, McCain is looking for money with a tin cup.
Race against McCain, Obama better nominee. Answer, McCain best days are behind him he’s too old.
Ending the War in Iraq, Obama will, Hillary or McCain wont. Answer, Bush and McCain want the war to continue for another 50 or 100 years because Bush is a Oilman and McCain is looking for donations.
Obama all the way!

In TX, Obama won caucus by 10% while lost in popular vote by 4%.
In WA, Obama won caucus by a stunning 37% while only won the popular vote by 5%.
So, what do the numbers tell us? If we transfer all the caucuses to primaries based on the results from TX and WA, Obama should get out of race a long time ago.
So, will you Obama supporters transfer general election to caucus system? Yes, you can ? :)

oldspice – So answer me this, if elections don’t have to follow the rules of the DNC, what keeps me from holding my own? Your argument is flawed my man.

There is no way you can claim that more voters wanted Clinton even if you count Florida AND Michigan. Most of the 237,762 voters in Michigan who voted uncommitted were obviously for Obama, so to arbitrarily ignore them is no more “fair” than any other convoluted system you can come up with.

Do all of the people claiming Michigan and Florida have been “disenfranchised” realize that Hillary signed a pledge that read that she wouldn’t campaign there? It was only after Iowa that she decided to politicize the issue and put her name on the ballot.
She went back on her word for political gain. Get used to that.

People keep talking about rules, since Florida and Michigan violated DNC Rule 11.A. by moving their primaries to a date before the first Tuesday in February. However, the penalty is very specific to violating the primary timing. It is provided in DNC Rule 11, which indicates that the state delegates shall be reduced by fifty (50%). Therefore, Florida & Michigan are being unfairly punished if people are trying to apply the rules fairly.

Leave it to Clinton to make up stuff.

All the talk about the importance of wining cartain states by a democrat follows old logic and political landscape. Obama is changing all that already. He will put together his victory from states democrats had never won before and a different set of demographics than the polititians and the media are used to.

Obama will never win Florida or Michigan..so don’t be fools..better to count those votes now that to see Florida and Michigan go for John McCain in the Fall.

This is too negative!!!When i read some of those ads I am wondering what some supporters are really thinking.It is way too much negative

Obama people on here are actually picking apart the 10 percent lead Hillary has over him. You people are ridiculous. HE LOST…get over it. Pennsylvania handed Obama a big NO yesterday.. that was a nice slap in the face for mr holier than thou. It is exactly what he deserves. Now he is crying and whining again. Please..
Hillary is as tough as nails and she is not going away any time soon, so the “agent of change” is resorting to politics as usual.

Hillary AND the Super Delegates are handing the PODUS Office to the Republicans. Guess they don’t care about the Democratic party as much as some of you thought they do.

the way i understand it is if the secretary of state certified the votes (they count). if obama CHOSE to take his name off the ballot that was his choice. they both ran ads. the dnc cannot override state rights. the states of mich and fl certified the votes. the democrats will pay in november if these voters are left out-it is political suicide for the democrats especially for obama who continues to obstruct the counting of the votes of the two states. obamas margin of error is getting really thin-i really in all sincerity do not believe that obama is electable.

Clinton was behind 100,00+ votes without these 2 states before the PA primary.
She won by 200,000+ votes last night, so where do people get off saying she’s behind??

If Obama cannot win over white vote, he cannot win G.E…
Clearly, race will be one top issue in this election with 90% of AA voting for their half brother and majority of white voting for white…
The base of Dems inlcudes white, black, latino and other minorities…
The base of Reps will be majority of whites…
So if the whites or other minorities from Dems party won’t vote or vote against Obama, then Obama has little chance to win…..
So far, Obama proved again and again he has been in race just because of his skin….
It is undeniable fact: Obama lost white votes, women votes, Latino votes and other minority votes excluding AA according to past voting records….

Of course Michigan and Florida cannot be counted. The idea that they could is ludicrous –1) they broke the rules of the party — which however unfair those rules are, were quite grounded. 2) As everyone knows Obama didn’t actually appear on the Michigan ballot in a wise move respectful of the fact that Michigan was breaking the lines of established protocol.
As most of you bloggers are getting into — whichever side you’re on — Hillary needed to make a double digit win in this state which is crucially composed of her support base — and she fell short of that (we can all do the math). But not only did she fall short of 10% she fell far short of a really significant margin all factors considered.
The problem with her and her campaign at this point is that it’s composed of empty divisive comments and a constant narcissism which is soooo obvious that she’s somehow entitled to the office and has amazing layers of diplomatic experience, which isn’t buttressed by any evidence.
She failed miserably and alienated most democrats in her sphere in Washington, putting Bill in the position of sidelining her for the rest of his presidency. Everything she’s claimed about her power and influence as first lady are either severe exaggerations or frank dishonesty — the Sniper fire is only the tip of the iceberg.
Finally, she continues to rip into Barack Obama for lack of substance, with a constant barrage of maneuvers like her 3AM in the morning add which echo Bush and the republican’s strategy of trying to keep the American people in a place of illogical fear by playing heavily on Orwellian tactics.
Finally, if her management of her own campaign which has seen countless disasters, firings, poor choices of managers, financial instability, severe distortions of the truth, and a lack of a significant ability to capitalize on her own strengths (again — with her core power base in Pennsylvania she couldn’t do better than 9.3? — and yes, part of Obama’s power is that he can raise money — it’s a fact of American politics) she’s just not in touch with the reality of what it’s going to take to go up against McCain.
A vote for her at this point is a vote for either 1) a McCain victory — which would be a disaster for the country. I do believe he means what he says — more war and the Bush tax cuts remain as they stand — hence the middle class is crushed. Believe him, he isn’t lying to you. 2) Possibly a Hillary victory — which based on what we’ve seen so far feels like it’s based on a track record which is highly manipulative, dishonest, and is ready to offer a shiny new toy to the dissatisfied consumer. If she’s been in the game this long and is so intensely hated by so many people there must be a reason? Think about that as you watch the next primaries and the power of Barack to connect in powerful ways with where the country could go, rather than through the quagmire of where it’s been for the past twenty years.

Lewis,that was a great posting. The unfortunate part of this though is that I feel deflated about this whole process. I cannot beleive how complicit the media is in not addressing the lies and misinformation. I now understand why we are in IRAQ now. The American Media. How could we elect GWB 2 times? We seem to deserve HRC. She is the worst of the worst.

Again….he can’t win the GE with just the far left and the black vote. If he wins the nomination, he loses the “typical white” people that are more towards the center of the party to McCain. That’s just the way it is.

Last time I checked the people of Florida and Michigan were Americans. So, BO disses Small-Town America and now goes higher and disses these States of the United States of America. Earlier, his reverend friend spewed his venom at America. And, he has attended an affair attended also by a person from the MidEast who is no longer welcome in America. WHAT GIVES WITH THIS GUY?

Wellican, please redo your math! Clinton has 1260208 PA votes. Dividing her votes by the total of 2305652 votes equa1 .547, which is 55% when rounded up. So she does have a 10% margin win over Obama. You might want to consult your math teacher on a matter like this in the future.

Try not to be as obsessed with the percentages as you are with Obama. He got spanked after outspending her 3 to 1. Best to learn how to deal with it.

I’m from Michigan and voted for Hillary so still have hope for my vote to count. The last 2 presidential elections were stolen by C-R0ve and G-Dubya, so I will gladly support Barack or any other Democrat in or out of a coma! We have to try and reverse some of the damage done over the last 7 years.

He is absolutely right… Not only that but there are several caucus states that do not track the ‘popular vote’ totals so if Senator Clinton thinks she can disenfranchise Iowa and other caucus states and then count votes from completely TAINTED ELECTIONS IN FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN,
SHE AND HER CAMPAIGN ARE SERIOUSLY TRYING TO DO DAMAGE TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!!
There is an article about how caucuses and primaries are like apples and oranges and they translate into delegates. Delegates give a common measurement for every state!!!!
She can’t win that way so she wants to create the illusion that there is another way…
BUT THERE IS NOT!!!!
IT’S DELEGATES OR NOTHING.
SENATOR OBAMA WILL WIN THIS NOMINATION BY REACHING THE DELEGATE COUNT REQUIRED. IT MAY REQUIRE SOME SUPERDELEGATES but as long as there is not a massive move to vote against their constituents I think it will be accepted. I hope that many will move to endorse Senator Obama now so that the move toward the required number of delegates becomes more apparent.
Obama ’08

thegoodman post: thank you for bringing some new information into the discussion so the sanctions only apply to 50% of the delegate count as per DNC rules rule 11A.
not to the popular vote?

SicknTired: I appreciate your open-minded approach to this election, however, if Obama gets his way, your vote will not count. His lawyers were the ones who stood in the way of a revote in Michigan, because he knew he would not win. He is also trying to disenfranchise the voters in Florida.
Obama — Yes We Can (Do anything, no matter how dishonest or immoral to win this election)

Republicans will not vote for Obama. Many democrats will not vote for Obama. Obama’s edge against another democrat will melt like Frosty’s nose when the entire population of voters are factored in.

MI and FL votes will not be counted because Obama has and will block the count. Pretty simple!

Clinton’s claim of leading in the popular vote is very much akin to her experience in Bosnia landing under sniper fire.
Liar’s never cease!

Mr. Obama,
What is abstract is not the Florida and Michigan votes – it’s your message andn attitude towards America. It’s one of the most fake foundation any candidate can run on. All voices should be hearded and counted.

just stick anyone in the white house & let’s stop bickering. It has become one long monotone in this country. vote for anybody & shut up already. have a nice day.

Obama pulled his name from the ballot not the other way around.

A LYING LEADER WILL ALWAYS MISLEAD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO HELL!
The words of a leader IS ALL that the average citizen in a huge population can rely on.
When the Clintons continue to make themselves known to the American people as barefaced liars, then the American people cannot complain later when such leaders let them down, AS LIARS MUST LET YOU DOWN!
Hilary Clinton has no principle.
Lies & truths are mere tools of expediency for the ever-deceptive Clintons.
Lying leaders ARE ALWAYS dangerous leaders.
Americans, you have been forewarned AGAIN, with the Clintons!

Here is a clue about the importance of the Florida vote:
Hillary at 45% is statistically tied with McCain at 44%.
Obama LOSES (38%) big time to Mcain (53%).
(Rasmussen 4/10/2008)

Hillary will not turn off African American voters. I support Hillary and a great number of intelligent blacks as well. There are the younger generations who know nothing about politics jumping on the bandwagon. If you want true C H A N G E start in your own backyard.
I want a leader who is a fighter. Obama is just a salesperson promising things he can’t deliver. He is constantly pointing at Hillary campaign for negative attacks.
Clintons never played the race issue. Race will always be an issue in America and around the world. I think America is able and one day pick a person of color to be the leader of the Free World.
Frankly, Obama IT’S NOT YOU!!!

I for one am sick and tired of the lame attempt to present Obama as a voice for change. His record in the Senate is one of the worst I have ever seen for the time he has been in office. He has to date had no bills introduced and passed. Is he just a sit back and vote kind of person? Would you like to have a president that cannot present anything to the american people or on capital hill that passes the grade. I am not saying he is not an honest person, but stop telling the people all the things you will do until you actually do something worth talking about.

Obama suggesting the Michigan and Florida DELEGATES shouldnt count is a valid argument. His blatent attempts to make sure they arent re voted is a joke, but he will be mocked in the general election for that. Not now.
But if he wants to say the popular VOTE in those states dont count, he is on VERY dangerous ground.
Nowhere did the DNC suggest the VOTE wouldnt be recorded.
They clearly said the primary COULD BE HELD. The VOTE would clearly count. But NO DELEGATES would be awarded.
So Obama is on some pretty slippery ice to suggest the voters went out of their way to vote and have their VOICES HEARD do NOT count is not ‘uniting ‘ anything nor a ’50 state strategy’ .

Fred – thank you for that illuminating information. I find it interesting that Obama “the uniter” attends a church that encourages dis-unification.
I am tired the minority of blacks (I sincerely believe/hope this is a minority)screaming loudly and trying to hold ALL white people responsible for slavery and the discrimination they have experienced. My family (until my grandparents generation) were ALL QUAKERS for over 300 years and had been actively involved in the Underground Railroad on both my maternal sides(there is a museum to one of my relations in Indiana and his efforts in the URR – look it up). My paternal side has only been here since the early 1900′s and lived a relatively quiet agricultural life in the northeast.
Blame the people who have actually harmed you (past and present), not the ones who tried to help free you, have supported you or were willing to risk their lives to help in whatever way they could. I have a hard time supporting a man who attends a church that believes because of the color of MY skin, I’m an oppressor. I wasn’t there and MY people were fighting for you for more than a 100 years!
I even had a grandfather who went to war, despite his religion (Quakers are pacifists) to fight for what was right because he believed in your freedom so strongly. He risked his life (nearly lost it), his church membership (actually was thrown out because of his enlistment – later received back in) and the reputation of his family, all to fight a war that in all honesty he could have stayed out of just because he was a Quaker. He could have used that excuse, but he refused to take the easy way out.
So if I understand all this garbage I’ve heard about Obama’s church and the words of his spiritual advisor, free speech applies only to the hate speech spewed by minorities and hate speech must be condemned when whites say it? If a member of any minority spews hate, that’s OK because they have to right to say it and it’s their experience? Is that the drift?
Well then, I sure don’t know what my problem is. I don’t tolerate hate speech toward any group by anyone at anytime. Must be a waste of my time to stand up for tolerance and equality and trying to do my small part in eliminating hate when I see it. No matter who the group is or who the hate is directed toward.
Sorry, racism can’t be claimed by one minority and then ignored when their own people practice it.

The pledged delegate count is largely irrelevant at this point, except as a reflection of the “will of the voters”.
Indeed, what does the delegate count do at this point that the popular vote does not do better?
Last night’s HRC win, taking into account Florida where Obama was on the ballot, and disregarding Michigan where he was not, puts Hillary within 200,000 popular votes of Barack–the same amount she netted last night in one contest.
Hillary and Barack are neck-in-neck in the popular vote count no matter how yo slice it.

Robin:
Thanks….very cool comments…..

Obama’s motto and theme should be Pay per Vote. Obama overspent in Pennnsylvannia and still a loser.
Look at the facts as to how strong Hillary is:
Obama lost in Pennsylvannia in spite of endorsement by a Senator and overspending in ads, 5 to 1.
Obama lost in Texas and Ohio even overspending in ads and manipulating info in Ohio.
Obama lost in California even though Oprah, Maria Shriver, and Katherine Kennedy endorsed him.
Obama lost Massachusetts even though Kennedy and John Kerry endorsed him.
Hillary won the big states and has more electoral college votes to date than Obama that is crucial in November.
Obama lost the big states even though the media is most of the time unfair with Hillary and always positive to Obama.
Wake up superdelegates! You will make the right choice if you pick Hillary.
Obama mocked the Pennsylvannians and the entire nation, which is so irresponsible and very degrading to all Americans. He is just like Wright who mocked the Americans and like Rezco and Ayers who we can’t trust.
Wake up superdelegates!

Obama’s motto and theme should be Pay per Vote. Obama overspent in Pennsylvannia and still a loser.
Look at the facts as to how strong Hillary is:
Obama lost in Pennsylvannia in spite of endorsement by a Senator and overspending in ads, 5 to 1.
Obama lost in Texas and Ohio even overspending in ads and manipulating info in Ohio.
Obama lost in California even though Oprah, Maria Shriver, and Katherine Kennedy endorsed him.
Obama lost Massachusetts even though Kennedy and John Kerry endorsed him.
Hillary won the big states and has more electoral college votes to date than Obama that is crucial in November.
Obama lost the big states even though the media is most of the time unfair with Hillary and always positive to Obama.
Wake up superdelegates! You will make the right choice if you pick Hillary.
Obama mocked the Pennsylvannians and the entire nation, which is so irresponsible and very degrading to all Americans. He is just like Wright who mocked the Americans and like Rezco and Ayers who we can’t trust.
Wake up superdelegates!

Obama constantly does double talk. He says he is leading in the popular vote, but it doesn’t matter if you count FL and MI…because those Clinton votes don’t matter. Lol. Just wait until the convention and see that those votes will be counted.
I’m not that pro-Clinton, but lately Obama’s lying and elitism are such major turn-offs.

Obama constantly does double talk. He says he is leading in the popular vote, but it doesn’t matter if you count FL and MI…because those Clinton votes don’t matter. Lol. Just wait until the convention and see that those votes will be counted.
I’m not that pro-Clinton, but lately Obama’s truth dodging, and elitism are such major turn-offs.

Not all the people in Michigan who voted UNCOMMITED voted for Barack Obama
John Edwards was also lumped into the UNCOMMITED status also. I know a few people here who voted that way, but are now supporting Clinton. So don’t think
ALL the uncommited votes here were for Obama.
HILLARY 08!!!
Anyone can “believe” in change… vote for change you can COUNT ON!!!

Obama did not campaign in Florida…and his name was not even on the ballot in Michigan. Clinton’s so-called victories were little different from the elections in Iraq where Saddam always received 99.5% of the vote.

The only game being played here is by Obama. The voters in both those states should be allowed to re vote. Clinton won both states and she is willing to have a re vote. What is Obama so afraid of? He sounds like the George Bush Jr campaign in Florida in 2000! He ran TV commercials for 3 weeks in Florida leading up to a “vote” he said shouldn’t count! Hillary has been easy on Obama, democrats wake up! Look at the ads Republicans are running against those who endorsed him in NC! This guy will bring down the entire ticket in November! He is the guy republicans truly want to run against! As a Democrat , who has worked for many, many african american candidates… I can not vote for Obama for President of the US in 2008… 2016 (when he grows up and doesn’t say dumb things like like “let me eat my waffle”) maybe!

Obama lovers INSIST on lumping the VOTE to the delegates in Michigan and Florida.
The DNC allowed the primaries. They allowed the ballots, the right for people to VOTE, and tallied up the vote. Then they stripped them of the delegates.
Since when does the VOTE not count?
There is NO provision that the VOTE doesnt count. Just the delegates.

I know. Obama the great UNITER with a ’50 state strategy’ REFUSES to count the popular vote of those states, or even do the right thing and REVOTE ???????????????????????
It gets to the point the only thing saving him from sure disaster is MEDIA SPIN . They could easily CHASTISE him for trying to shove those states away.

Today Hillary is not asking for Mich & Fla to count toward the nomination. She’s just saying they should count toward the psychological standard of who has received the most votes. Unfortunately she is completely off base on either “count”.
In Mich & Fla all candidates agreed not to campaign, and the contests were disqualified by their sponsoring organization. It’s like saying a scrimmage should count toward the play-offs. Absolutely, ridiculously out of the question! Camp Clinton rhetoric about “counting every vote” in this situation is pure unadulterated bull.

Fred – thanks for the wonderful info……. 10 Million for Hillary…. I can add another lie to Your list and to Rose’s list of Obama Lies…. It’s an interview with Karl Rove – one of my least favorite people – Rove states that Obama printed something in one of his books that Rove was supposed to have said and Rove denies having said it.

“I’ve always believed that if you’re tough you don’t have to talk about it.” But you keep talking & talking & talking about it Obama, always talking about everything but the issues and what your “CHANGE FOR AMERICA” will be. Simply getting to the White House is not “CHANGE”. You have no substance, just empty excuses and empty words.

RPS, We know how it works. What we are arguing is that the “will of the voters” – who Obama has been a supposed champion of for some time – is best measured by the popular vote. And that the superdelegates should rank that above pledged delegates.

Becky: She was behind by nearly 700,000 votes before Pen. SO now she is behind by about half million 500,000 votes. I don’t think she can make that up and then get ahead of him in the remaining contests. Unless Obama is just standing still.

ONE MORE TIME….She was NOT the only one on the ballot here in Michigan, so was Dennis Kucinich, Gravel, and Dodd and also uncommited. In 2004 the DNC set up a commission to review its presidential nominating process to allow a more fair and represntive primary process. Upon completion of the study, the DNC recommended a new sequence in which New Hampshire would hold the 3rd nominating contest. It was ONLY AFTER New Hampshire indicated its intention to VIOLATE this OFFICAL sequence and the DNC officals REFUSED to do anything about it that Michigan decided to move its primary forward.
When we found private donors to fund a re-vote Barack Obama REFUSED to agree to it. Hillary Clinton wants change and she PROVED it by keeping her name on the ballot here. Sometimes to get change you have to go against the grain.
On I-petions we raised over 11,000 signatures and still counting (10,000 by law) to make Howard Dean hear our voices and count our delegates. He has to count our delegates, and Barack Obama fails to realize this.

JA…all the MI and FL delegates will be seated but sadly for both delegations I doubt if any Rules/Credential Cmmte. will allow them to cast a first ballot vote. The committee is weighted to the party with the most delegates therefore the state parties have shot themselves in the foot

Don’t worry about MI and FL. When the time comes, it will be all unveiled that it’s unconstitutional to not count legal votes already casted according to the Supreme Court. DNC may not seat the delegates by their rules, but popular votes is not in their control. And since Obama’s been touting that nominee should be decided by the people and not be overturned by superdelegates. He’ll get just that at the convention. A re-vote will actually help Obama so that he gets fair share of MI popular votes unless he’s afraid, of course.

I am from FL and I demand the democratic party to seat FL delegates!
All 3 of the candidates were at the ballot!
Obama
Clinton
EdwardsSEAT FL DELEGATES
DO OVER MI

regardless of what people were “told”….his NAME was not there. her name was the only one.
so, your saying that thats ok, right?
that thats a “win” for her?
soooo….
if i run down a sidestreet in NY as fast as i can, do i get to say i won a “race in NY”?
i mean….at least acknowledge the validity of this point…
you cant win if you’re the only one running.
winning, after all, requires competition.

Seat Fl and doover MI
Who ever wins than we talk!

JA…then if everyone knew/knows the rules [as you imply] one cannot present an argument during the game aka NEW RULES.
I suggest all passionate parties take the time to run as a delegate so in 2012 the Rules will reflect only a popular vote which makes no sense for if it did our Founding Fathers and all who followed would have implemented such a system.

This article continues the mass media’s failure to acknowledge the uncertain nature of a “popular” vote count in the first place. At least four caucus states do not report the actual votes used to determine the precinct delegates. Furthermore the different methods used in each state mean that turnout rates will vary greatly according to the method used.
Obama is exactly right in saying that the “popular vote” in this sort of setting is an abstract exercise. There’s really no such thing as a national popular vote in a party primary, when each state uses such different methods of voting, counting, and reporting.

Wait a minute…
If every vote was counted in the Democratic Primaries, including Florida and Michigan as they should, then the majority of the votes would go to Sen. Hillary Clinton because those two key states did chose Hillary. Those voters will count at the general election – in fact they will be crucial for Democrats to take the White House – and for that reason, those voters wishes and choice have to be taken into consideration.
Now, If for some un-democratic reason Florida and Michigan voters are left out from the Primary vote count, then…. The super delegates must weigh the value of those “uncounted but existing votes”, and show a honest representation – whict will tip the balance toward Hillary Clinton.
If the DA and Sup Delegagtes do not act JUSTLY, then they will not bet elected in the fall of 2008.

Yes let’s not count the voters of Florida or Michigan—they don’t count. The votes of Pennsylvania people do not matter either apparently as Obama downplayed Pennsylvania’s outcome— nor the people in California, New York, Ohio, Texas, now Pennsylvania the biggest states in our Union. 92% of black voters in PA voted for Obama —that like saying is “I don’t care if he is qualified or not, as long as he is black”—and there is no race card!!!!!! Such underlying principles will destroy America as we know it today.

Let Hillary have Michigan and Florida … it will put her ahead by 122,000 votes. Then, after Obama takes a 300,000+ margin of victory in NC we can end this mess. Hang in there Obama supporters, it should finally be over on May 6.

Super Delegates need to line up behind Hillary. She is THE ONLY ONE who has a chance to beat McCain. Based on a Fox analysis, if Florida and Michigan were counted and Obama was given the uncommitted vote in Michigan, the delegate difference would only be 50 or so. This difference could easily be made up by Hillary in the remaining contest or Super Delegates or pledged delegates that switch. Obama is just not Presidential material and I would gladly contributed to the North Carolina guy who wants to run Swift Boat Ads against Obama. The truth about Obama needs to be exposed!!

Antoin – That was a lot of words but you did not address the issues raised in my first post. Just like O’bama, you evade.

There was nothing tricky about the Michigan vote. Both, obama and Edwards knew eactly what they were doing,bet Edwards would be honest about it and say: ” It was a lost cause – Hillary had it all the way, why look bad by keeping your name on the ballot when it was not supposed to count?” Good strategy, just not thought through. Ultimately, even if they count those votes obama isn’t hurt. Can’t lose something you never had. Vite a thousnad times on a thousnad differnt days Michigan goes to Clinton. There you have the reason there was no revote.

Obama should just drop out due to lack of experience. The man is no way close to being qualified for the most complicated job in America. How did he get this far in the process in the first place? He has virtually no international experience at all, minimal US Senate experience, and questionable judgment based on his past associations. Obama for President???

Well, let’s see. Obama has a whopping two years of federal experience, most of which he has simply spent posturing and campaigning for the presidenty.
Obama’s foreign relations experience consists solely of a trip to Kenya to visit relatives (that’s “foreign relations,” right?).
Obama has a close, 25-year relationship with Jeremiah Wright and the hateful Black Nationalist movement. Then Obama pretends he didn’t know Wright is a bad guy.
Obama has a 17-year relationship with Chicago’s preeminant slum lord and scum bag Antoni Rezko, who helps Obama buy his house. Then Obama pretends he didn’t know Rezko is a bad guy.
Obama launches his state senate campaign with an event at the home of terrorist Bill Ayers, serves on a charity board with Ayers and gives speeches with him. Then Obama pretends he barely knows the guy.
Obama promised us “change” in Illinois too, but has done nothing but cut deals to enrich himself and his wife while cashing our paychecks.
Obama cleverly flips off Clinton during a speech last week and smirks while the crowd cheers.
And the list goes on and on.
Gee, what’s not to like about Obama? Sure, he has experience, character and judgment to be the most powerful leader in the world during these especially challenging times. How tough can it be? LOL
Nobama. No way. Ever.

THERE WERE MILLIONS OF US WHO ONLY
CAUCUSED. HOW DO WE GET COUNTED
ACCURATELY? ADD A COUPLE OF MILLION
TO OBAMAS COUNT THEN..

Okay, here we go again….Obama starting to whine again…..he has lots of money … and still he lost….he is slated to win in NC, but Clinton should pick up more in Indiana…..if things don’t go Obama’s way, he just has to complain….get a life, Obama….

So, the superdelegates shouldn’t ignore the will of the people? Didn’t the caucus-goers in Texas ignore the will of the people of Texas? If you are OK with an undemocratic caucus system, you shouldn’t object to the superdelegates being treated as caucus-goers of a big 51-th state which awards 350 delegates total. If Hillary wins this super-caucus, she will be a legitimate winner of the race!

You go Tom! I have been posting on here for several weeks now and not one O’bama supporter can make a sensible argument why anyone but another Black Nationalist or a duped individual would vote for O’bama. O’bama is steeped in the Black Nationalist/Power movement and unless you disagree with the likes of Martin Luther King, Jr., you should not be voting for him.

Edwards is supposed to be the candidate of blue collar workers. Blue collar workers have clearly spoken ( Fact: Obama has only won the blue collar vote in one state Wisconsin). He should endorse Hillary before NC or he is a complete fraud!

JA…yes I read your post…alas I was a delegate in 1996…cast my vote for Bill Clinton. Super delegates will vote as they see fit but they will not vote as others see fit. They are of their own minds as defined by the Rules Committee. Each will vote based on their own criteria and neither you, me or any others will be the criteria.
I thank you for the lively debate JA…always remember the Rules are agreed to prior to any contest not during. f one does not care for the Rules one must present their case prior to the contest or else look foolish and weak post facto.

I am soooo tired of people saying the African Americans will support him because he is black. I would give the African American community more credit than that.
Also, I think Barack Obama FORGOT that he is way more, middle-eastern and white, than black. I hope the African-American community realizes this.

Reading so many snide and “bitter” posts by Clinton fans here just goes to prove that she really does appeal to the less educated. In Michigan, if Barack had campaigned, he surely would have chipped away at her base and also inpired new voters as he has everywhere else, so the argument that his votes were cast as uncommited and that is all he actually would have attained is ludicrous and weak at best. Those who felt there was no choice simply stayed at home. PA should have been a pure blowout and I am sorry…it was less than 10 and even 10 does not constitute the type of victory she should have scored with the perfectly suited constituency she enjoyed in that State. And yet…you will see a double digit loss for her in NC and there is nothing she can do to cut into him, she never has cut into his base and he has certainly been able to turn some of hers around. And did someone catch the immediate endorsement of the OK governor the day after his defeat? Seems like he cast his support to Barack in spite of the contrived victory in PA. Basically…he saw the forest for the trees. Let us say “timber” now…because Hillary is still falling.

If Obama won FL/MI, would Hillary want those votes counted?!???
No, and the party leaders shouldn’t concede rules to someone just because they’re losing.

The citizens of Florida and Michigan deserve to have their votes counted.They took the time to lawfully participate in their states’ Democratic primaries.In the 2000 election,we heard time and again how Americans’ votes should all be counted.We live in a democratic republic and Americans votes should be counted.I believe in the right to life and liberty.Counting votes is an essential component of our democracy.

Actually, the “abstract measure” is the caucuses. Hillary is right to count Florida and Michigan when talking about what the voters want.

Here is the deal..There are far more moderate Whites, Catholic Latinos, and Asians voting for Hillary than left wingers liberal Whites and Blacks voting for Obama so super delegates Who do you want to vote for your Democratic nominee in the Fall? ..DO THE MATH…

The popular vote is a valid measure because the DNC only disqualified the delegates from FL and MI, not the votes. That being said, the Obama camp is correct in that only the delegates count in the determination of the nominee, per the DNC rules. That being said, of course, means that neither Obama or Clinton will have the requisite number of delegates earned from the primaries and the superdelegates votes will be necessary to claim the nomination. And per DNC rules, the superdelegates cast their votes independent of the primaries, which mean that they can vote for whichever candidate they choose, based on independent and individual criteria. Obama is not quaranteed any superdelegate votes just because he has leads in any capacity. The fact that the superdelegate votes matter so greatly suggests very clearly that Obama and Clinton are nearly tied, and the superdelgates will break the tie. That’s why the superdelegates exist.

What Obama really means then, is that FL and MI voters are themselves “abstract”. He just does not get it. Sometimes, rules are found to be unjust. A remedy to correct an injustice is then the fair and decent remedy. But Obama adamantly refuses to be fair and decent, so it shows that he himself is an indecent and unfair man.

I just saw an article that fits the situation: Obama, the 2nd coming of McGovern!!!
NO TO OBAMA! WE DON’T WANT YOU!!!!

coco paradisio
Exactly…while sadly the vast majority of both camp-supporters soemhow believe their posts alone can change the Rules during the game.
The primary season will play out and a nominee will emerge. I pray all democrats will support either one with the same passion they exhibit here.
RPS1023 delegate 1976

Obama spent 3 to 1 over Hillary in PA, and lost by over 2 digits. Now, he wanted Michigan and Florida votes threw under the bus along with his white grandmother. Their votes are just important like any other votes. COUNT THEM IN. GO HILLARY! the proud American all the time.

Well at the end of this thing they are both going to say they won the popular vote so it will be a tie in that aspect. So whats the tie breaked? the Delegates which Obama will have a extremely high count on. This election is over any way you look at it.

Obama should quit.
He has been exposed as just a speech maker..with some very bad mentors and friends who hate America.
Hillary may not be perfect…but she is an American who will fight for us everyday.

To all Clinton supporters. After reviewing the exit polls, I have a question. Should we really select the candidate that is favored by the least intelligent, least succesful, least informed, most likely to be senile people in the country or should we try this time to elect a president who is favored by the better educated, better informed, more successful, bright, young and healthy voters? Just a thought.

Florida and Michigan delegates will be seated in convention, this is the fact and everybody knows that. Beside, if super delegates should go with the nominee with more delegates, then what is the purpose of having super delegates in the first place?
The Obama supporters are saying what if Clinton steals the nomination from him, yeh? How about stealing MI & FL from Clinton?

robert:
If she didn’t want the votes to count why did she leave her name on the ballot?

whatsaute I see why you support Obama, you are just as arrogant and elitist as Obama. We are all humans and just because someone has more education or money doesn’t make them any better than anyone else. We can’t have a President that doesn’t respect everyone.
By the way, I am a well educated (double master top of my class) executive who supports Clinton. I know that she is the best candidate and will take care of everyone!!!

Mona,
Thanks for your comment “GOLD”!

Sounds like Clinton is engaging in some
Fuzzy Math…hmmmm where did we hear
that before?
Also, once Oregon votes it will be
all over. This is absolutely Obamaland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bill is coming here this weekend but
we don’t want him! We’re
suffering from Clinton fatigue already!Turn the page!

I believe she left her name on the ballot here in Michigan because
1. She KNEW you needed MI and FL to win the White House.
2. To PROVE she believes in changing the process.
3. She was NOT the only Democrat on the ballot here so was Dennis Kucinich, Gravel, and Dodd and also uncommited.

This whole disenfranchise argument does not hold water. Think about it, just because your primary vote did not count you are gonna vote mc-more-war into office and continue the bush-league policies. Get real, when it comes down to it, people are smarter than that.(Then again this country did put bush/cheney in office twice.) Obama 2008!!!

The Obama mafia is coming down. He is already humiliating his surrogates, part of his bitterness and frustration.
Black people tend not to live their own reality and like to manipulate the issues. Grow up Barack Obama !!

DEBBIE, you are right, that was kind of mean. But people arguing that somehow it is acceptable (or worse clearly the only right thing to do) to count votes in such as way as to not give a voice to even one voter in Mich who supports Obama, makes me think those people should not be part of this process. They are insane, and I would argue every bit as wrong as I. Difference here is I apologize for being over zealous and saying silly things. Clinton and her supporters are arguing like mad that their nonsense should be accepted and used a a basis for choosing our next president. Way more troubling.

PT I am one of those who campaigned against Bush but unfortunately people were blind to his deceptive ways and elected him again. That is why I am so against Obama. I see the same thing happening again. People are blind to Obama and the disaster he will bring to this country. I stuck with the Democratic Party last time even though I thought Kerry couldn’t win. This is one time I will be voting for the candidate not the Party affiliation. I will vote Hillary first then McCain then I will write in Edwards or someone else before I would ever support Obama!

The way the DNC have ran this primary is embarrassing. By allocating delegates in proportion to the popular vote, the DNC has created this mess. If democrats truly want every vote counted, then we need to do away with the disenfranchising voting system we call a “Caucus”. Of course Obama prefers them to primaries because it suits his core constituents, people who can afford to take 4 to 5 hours out of their day to voice their opinion. This process ignores the idea of one man (woman), one vote. By suggesting that the votes casted in FL and MI are abstract measures is an insult to the voters of those states, and should be an insult to every voting American. Obama elected to take his name off the MI ballot. Every name was on the FL ballot. News coverage in MI and FL did not suddenly cease because they couldn’t campaign there. If Obama truly wants to be the people’s choice for president, then he needs to acknowledge every vote. His way of thinking is exactly like President George W. Bush. Count only the votes that help me win. If he were on the other end of this, he’d be right where Clinton is. If you can’t be fair with voters, how can you be fair to the American people? In addition, these accusations of dirty politics by Obama and the press against Clinton is absurd. Obama’s campaign is just as guilty. They just leave it to the advertisements and the minions to do the attacks. Political battles are all about presenting why you should win and why the other person should not. Pointing out negatives is nothing new, and should not be considered dirty politics. I’m ashamed to be a Democrat at this point. ONE MAN (WOMAN), ONE VOTE! EVERY VOTE SHOULD COUNT!

I see Clinton’s hate mongers are working overtime today!

I am a disenfranchised registered Democrat in Florida. It is upsetting enough to know that the Democratic National Committee and the state of Florida have denied me my right to vote – but here’s a message to Obama – you will learn how “abstract” my vote will be. I could never vote for someone who refuses to fight for my right as an American to vote. I was conflicted about my vote… no longer.

Wendu said:
“He’s such a hypocritical jerk.”
…and it’s a real shame because Hillary is such an angel…a real sweetheart.

Obama is such a baby. If he didn’t have the strong-armed tactics of the caucuses and the cult-like followers who cry at his every word, he would have nothing. I want the strength of action and committment that he hasn’t shown by virtue of his lacks of vote in the senate. Anyway, he is a baby and I hope Hillary just keeps getting tougher on him. He has had a free ride by the media and it is time they just stop it. Even after a win in Pennsylvania, we here more whinning from Obama than anything else. Fight until the end.

I thought b4 a football game everyone agrees on the rules or they don’t play?

Talk about hypocrisy. Hillary wants to disenfranchise those who live in States that have Caucuses, while including States that violated the rules laid down in advance before Florida and Michigan decided to reschedule their Primaries.
Fact is …there is no “popular vote for all the States decides the nominee” system. And it’s not, contrary to Bill Clinton, winner take all in each State. The Democrats have long had a mix of Primaries and Caucuses based on the proportionate number of Democrats in those States. Iowa gets delegates proportionate to its Democratic numbers.
If Hillary or Bill had a problem with that they could have likely changed the rules back in the 1990′s. Now it’s the onhly way she can possibly win…plus including states that were disqualified where she agreed not to run or accept the results.
And she’s even talking about how it would be okay to poach delegates that are “Committed” to the opposing cadidate in the elections! While all of this “changing rules in the middle of the game” may not be criminal, it’s certainly unethical and a very good reason not to support her.
Sheesh! Bill cheating on her wasn’t “illegal” either…despicable and immoral…yes! But not illegal! What’s with this Family?

Why doesn’t ABC report that the only two states where the Democratic vote total was less than the Republican vote total are Florida and Michigan. Very revealing as to the small turn out by Democratic (and independents in Michigan) voters who knew going in there votes would not count as being in violation of DNC rules.

I don’t really care who created the problems in FL and MI and who supported the decision at the time. It was a huge mistake and should never have been done. (I’ve heard but haven’t investigated it, that there were other states which moved up their primaries but they didn’t get punished by the DNC.) Obama is the one who is now opposing fixing the problem unless he gets an equal portion because he knows that Fl would go in Hillary’s favor and MI is up in the air. It needs to be corrected either based on the results of the primaries which were heard or new primaries which seems unlikely or this year’s nominee won’t be decided until the convention.
I know that if all the information about Obama had been out before the Jan. and Feb. primaries, the other democratic candidates, like Edwards, would have had a better chance at winning the nomination. Shame on the DNC and the media!

Obama’s economy plan sucks! His plans will hurt teachers, firefighter, police officers, etc…
I think that we need to cling to our wallet too!

Why not simply split the delegates of the states of Florida and Michigan — equally among both candidates? It’s the only solution that makes sense. Both states violated the rules and were duly punished for it. The votes should count for something, however. Giving all the votes to Clinton where Obama was on the ballot in one state and withdrew his name from the other (as did all of the Democrats, including Clinton as per the DNC)would be grossly unfair. (After all, Clinton put her signature to a document, and ala Bush, didn’t honor her own promise.) Were there a revote, the voters would go overwhelmingly for Clinton, as Obama will be seen to have disenfranchised them by not keeping his name on the ballot, when he was simply following party rules. Dividing the delegates is the only way, IMHO. Needless to say, Obama would remain ahead of Clinton, which would have to be borne.

Look at the facts as to how strong Hillary is:
Obama lost in Pennsylvannia in spite of endorsement by a Senator and overspending in ads, 5 to 1.
Obama lost in Texas and Ohio even overspending in ads and manipulating info in Ohio.
Obama lost in California even though Oprah, Maria Shriver, and Katherine Kennedy endorsed him.
Obama lost Massachusetts even though Kennedy and John Kerry endorsed him.
Hillary won the big states and has more electoral college votes to date than Obama that is crucial in November.
Obama lost the big states even though the media is most of the time unfair with Hillary and always positive to Obama.
Wake up superdelegates! You will make the right choice if you pick Hillary.
Obama mocked the Pennsylvannians and the entire nation, which is so irresponsible and very degrading to all Americans. He is just like Wright who mocked the Americans and like Rezco and Ayers who we can’t trust.
Wake up superdelegates!

STOP THE BICKERING WE HAVE THE SOLUTION :
CLINTON 2008
OBAMA 2012
OBAMA 2016 (MICHELLE)
CLINTON 2020 (CHELSEA)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAY TO GO DEMOCRATS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obama is dilusional if he thinks MI and FL aren’t going to remember this… Gore lost because of Florida.
Secondly, the more we hear about Obama the more we dislike him.

Do you think the voters selected the date to vote…NO, WE DID NOT, but our votes are not to count and Obama is BS; he had ads running like crazy on tv, over and over and over and he LOST…we are hot in Florida and we will cost the dems the election if he is the nominee…remember, it is ELECTORAL VOTES THAT COUNT AND OURS WILL COUNT

It is appalling that Mr. Obama thinks that his political ambitions are more legitimate than the will of the millions of voters who have spoken in Michigan and Florida. Remember what happened the last time we disenfranchised Florida voters and the delegate count trumped the popular vote – that’s right –GEORGE BUSH.

Do all the math you like and follow what rules you like, but if you insult and disinfranchise 3 million voters, if you continue to insult the base of this party, winning will be pointless. Winning this nomination is NOT the goal here. Fielding a candidate who can win is. Lose sight of that, and everyone loses.

I’m sorry. Did I miss something? When was it that Senator Obama made the decision to move up the FL and MI primaries??? Oh, that’s right…HE DIDN’T! If FL and MI were so concerned about their votes counting, why did they chose to move their primaries up? They knew what the penalty would be. IDIOTS! Now they are whining that their voices have not been heard. Well I say it serves them right. Quit blaming it on Obama! But I guess we should all remember that the rules don’t apply to the Clintons. They make up their own rules as they go along to suit their needs.

it totally amazes me that after the oddities that happened here in florida to put gwb in office that the presumptive candidate thinks he can dismiss florida – i can imagine if he is the nominee the moment when he realizes that florida just decided that he was ‘abstract’ and that once again florida has the last word !

And here I thought the Dems had a 50-state strategy.
Did Florida and Michigan secede from the U.S.? If Obama and Howard Dean are comfortable with disenfranchising the voters of two states now, will they be able to win without them in November?
It’s stuff like this that make me proud that I am no longer a Democrat.

Go Democrats go I thought the republicans had no chance now I see hope.

FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN:
Do you want to elect a president who thinks you are non-existent?
Do you want to elect a president who is trying to disfranchise the millions in FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN?
Do you want to elect someone who defends his anti-American racist pastor?
Do you want to entrust this great nation’s reign to someone who exploits race to win elections whenever it is convenient?
Do you want to elect a president who is “all talk” and “no action”?
Do you want to elect a president whom we do not know?
If you answered YES, you have a choice: vote for Obama

Here’s the bottom line: I hate to say this, but I think it’s more likely than not now that regardless of who the dem nominee is this fall, dems will lose the general election in January. People feel so strongly and loyal to either Obama or Hillary that whoever is the dem nominee, a large percent of voters from the other dem candidate will either angrily vote for McCain or not vote. If Obama and Hillary don’t get on the same ticket, the dems will lose again next year. If that happens, I think I’m going to move to Canada.

To Kim:
The Republican Governor in Florida decided to move up the primaries. The democrats in both Fl/MI just bought into that idea, and neither Clinton or Obama could have interfered politically (as it is a STATE matter. The Republicans (Gov. Crist/Fl.) played a cool hand.
But the harm done to the party came from no other than Howard Dean and two other Dem. big shots in the party high command.
They were the ones who drew the line on the sand for MI/Fl – that is dictating of you move up, we won’ count you.
Basic principles of management tells us that you DO NOT set a punishment bar so high, that your whole company capitulated or is done great harm.
Dean basically grounded both FL/MI for 4 years because they were naughty. The shame is on Dean and his pals who made the biggest mess.
Both FL/MI voters cannot be disenfranchised for stupid reasons like this. Those voters must be counted if the Dem. stand a any chance in winning the WH in Nov.
Thats basially it.

Reality = Obama was able to reduce a 25% lead by Clinton in the polls to a 10% margin of victory (in a state that was ideal for Clinton in terms of demographics).
Reality = Abstract notions like “momentum” don’t mean much at this point. Statisticians have already determined that it is impossible for Clinton to catch up to Obama in delegates won between now and the convention.
Reality = There’s no way the superdelegates are going to steal the nomination from the candidate with the most delegates won at the time of the convention. Why? That would be undemocratic. It would destroy the Democratic Party’s reputation (revealing hypocrisy). It would likely force masses of Obama supporters to either not vote in the general election or vote for McCain.
Reality = the only way Hillary Clinton will be able to get the superdelegates to steal/overturn Obama’s lead at convention time, is through a Tanya Harding approach. The Clintons have already made the dirtiest plays one could easily conceive of and it has not worked to date (e.g., make Obama out to be anti-American, play the race card, associate Obama with controversial figures or with Islamic religion or Bin Laden himself).
As solid a Democrat as I am, I would personally NEVER, EVER vote someone into office who would so relentlessly pursue personal gain/glory that she would attempt to destroy another person along the way. And let’s be clear, Obama is and has always been the underdog in this race. The Clintons consider themselves the icons of the Democratic party and they are extremely connected and advantaged when it comes to garnering support of superdelegates and utilizing relationships for favors, etc., concerning campaign activities. Barack Obama has overcome unbelievable odds in maintaining his lead despite all of the advantages that Clinton has had. He and his supporters deserve every ounce of credit for what they have achieved and what he is likely to achieve in the end—the nomination and the presidency.
One last note: The Clinton camp seems to be working very hard to promote phony arguments about her ability to win in the general election due to a demonstrated ability to win the larger states. Do not be fooled. The Clinton campaign spreads these ideas while knowing full well that there is no genuine parallel between (a) a democratic candidate’s ability to win larger states when running against another democrat in a democratic nomination process and (b) a democratic nominee’s ability to win larger states when running against a republican in the general election. (It’s easy to look back at previous contests and see that this just isn’t true.) People who win particular states during party nominee contests often don’t win the same states in the general election. It’s a phony argument. Yet many voters buy into it, unfortunately.
As Obama has said repeatedly, Clinton has every right to continue to compete all the way to the convention. But she’s doing this for selfish reasons and she’s willingly putting our party’s chances of winning the white house (and getting our troops home) at great risk.
Mike Denhof, PhD

Kaiser: You have made your point. My final grading for you would be 2.44. Feel free to protest against the MSM’s percentage reporting, if that makes you happy about Obama’s loss.

To Louis: good work. I can’t help but laugh when Hillary supporters keep talking about Florida and Michigan and when they call Obama a hypocrite.
It is clear in my mind who has been the hypocrite: Hillary Rodham Clinton, but I’ve written enough on all these message boards about why, now I’m exhausted…read Louis’ post. But most obvious point, Hillary said the votes in Michigan and Florida don’t when all this started and now they must must must count…ouff I’m tired of trying to explain everything to you people.
Hillary Clinton is no longer a Democrat anyway, she has used the fear tactics of Republicans, starting with the 3 am call ad in Ohio, the Obama is not ready argument, the Farrakhan, Ayres, and Wright references to SCARE WHITE PEOPLE, the use of Osama bin Laden, the comment on obliterating Iran…and on and on…
You know, if this country just wants to elect dynasties and never change by electing people who are too sucked in the Washington psyche, then welcome back 9/11…it is time for a revolution and that revolution will only happen with Obama!
Adios

There are people who will not vote for Obama now that support Hillary.
There are people who will not vote for Hillary that support Obama.
These numbers are growing.
Some say put them on the same ticket.
But there are some people who won’t vote for a female and some won’t vote for a black person so you put them together it causes more problems.

Actually, caucus voters are usually counted. In four states, an official count was not released, and therefore, sites like RealClearPolitics, and the other news sites all rely on estimates.
Considering the fact that caucus voters are those who can blow half a DAY to vote in a primary, they really don’t represent the “will of the people” anyhow. Look at Texas. The VOTE went to clinton, but the caucus went for Obama. Caucuses reveal the will of the hardcore activists, not the people of the country. Frankly, I think caucuses should be scrapped. Notice that when we go into other countries, and help them set up democracies, we never recommend caucuses.
Seriously. I have a job. I can find time to vote, but sure as heck cannot spend 5 hours at a caucus.

If the situation was reversed and Clinton was ahead like Obama is now, I wonder what she would say? She would probably complain and cry like she’s done this whole election season and call foul.

Why are the press pandering so much to the Clintons the last few days? ALL of the cable networks. As an observer from another country I would advise Americans to question their press. These blogs give an outsider a real view into the American mind – and I’m sorry to say, it’s not pretty.

Clinton gains 10 delegates, BUT TAKE NOTE OBAMA’s delegate count just got alot closer to 2025 with his gains!!! Can someone tell me what she actually won???

Alice
PA is the center of the world…the glorius site of Obama’s undoing.
LONG LIVE PA !!

What you think? Is he right? Are the we the voters of Florida and Michigan just Abstract individuals? Judge for yourselves.
Sincerely faithful viewer of ABC News.
Chuck Stoddard

WHOSE FAULT IS IT? Many Obama supporters cannot face the truth about their candidate, period. They began supporting him when they knew nothing about him, and now that they’ve invested so much of themselves in the “change” he pretended to represent, there is just no turning back for them. No, they will not let information which does not support their image of this man intrude upon their dreams. I blame Obama for this, more than his supporters. He knew he was perpetrating a terrible hoax on the voters of this country from the start. He knew the kinds of ruthless tactic Many Obama supporters cannot face the truth about their candidate, period. They began supporting him when they knew nothing about him, and now that they’ve invested so much of themselves in the “change” he pretended to represent, there is just no turning back for them. No, they will not let information which does not support their image of this man intrude upon their dreams. I blame Obama for this, more than his supporters. He knew he was perpetrating a terrible hoax on the voters of this country from the start. He knew the kinds of ruthless tactics he had used from the beginning to jumpstart his political career. He knew about his dubious associations and how they flew in the face of his calls for “change” and “unification.” He knew about the racist theology to which he subscribed for 20 years, and how destructive such ideas are to the progress of race relations in this country. No, I do not place primary blame for our current unfortunate situation on his supporters; I place it squarely on Obama, who has shown an almost criminal lack of concern about the damage his tactics have done not only to the Democratic Party, but more importantly, to relations between the races about which, ironically, he professes to care so much.

I’m sure that the millions of voters in MI and FL are happy to hear that they are just ‘abstract’ to Obama instead of being REAL PEOPLE.
I guess the ‘change’ he brings to MI and FL is disenfranchisement.
Why does he hate Michigan and Florida?

Steven “I have been to PA. and it AIN’T ALL THAT” that’s why I moved…

Every state party and electorate chooses their nominating process. Caucuses have never made much sense, but in the heavy repub. western states they work (sort of) because there is such a small number of dems there. In this election, they became a joke in more ways than one, for both sides.
As to Florida and MI, these people voted. Voted at the polls and the elections were certified by the state. The DNC chose to punish two states out of five by refusing to seat the delegates, but the votes have to count. I understand the issues with MI, but there is no basis to not count Florida as it stands.
In addition, it was Obama and his staff that would not agree to a revote. Are rules and arbitrary punishments really more important than the voters of these two states? Swing States!?
What are we thinking that we have leaders that have allowed this, and that we have a candidate who is more than willing to just ignore them because it doesn’t help his cause. He could have turned a revote into a real plus for his side, but instead he has angered 3 million democrats.
How in God’s name does that make sense?
You are wrong, people will vote for McCain over Obama. We have seen him work for years, many times siding with dems over his own party. He IS a man who can cross aisles. He does more than say it, he has a history of it. Some things will have to be put off, but then we are used to that too.
People matter! Voters matter! Character matters!

Facts are facts, with Florida and MI, Clinton is ahead of obama in popular vote now by about 200,000 votes! Its funny how the news media/CNN and obama’s supporters keep saying the democratic party is not counting FL and MI votes, even though the DNC party leader Dean said he would. But even funnier, is the fact that the DEMS will NEED FL and MI in NOV to have even a small chance of winning the presidency. I bet they would want them to count then! If our votes are not included as individuals in the nomination process, dont come ask for them in NOVEMBER! Mark, FL

With all the talk about Obama’s support among African-Americans, young voters, and liberal elites, why does no one consider what will happen if he loses Hillary’s base to McCain? You know, women, blue collar workers, Catholics, Jews, Hispanics, long-time Dems, gun-owners, bowlers, older voters, Florida, and Michigan. I guess they’re just ‘abstract’ to Obama, too.
If he continues to take all these groups for granted, he will lose. BIG.

WE WOULD BE HAVING A REVOTE ON JUNE 3RD IN MICHIGAN IF IT WERENT FOR OBAMA..
HE WANTS TO GET A CHANCE TO WIN UTAH IDAHO AND MONTANA THAT HE KNOWS MCCAIN WILL TAKE..
DONT HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO CLOSE THE DEAL
$50 MILLION LATER, OBAMA LOST BY DOUBLE-DIGIT.

Abstract people, bitter people. When will Obama ever learn. You can’t slam the voters and think they won’t notice. I guess that elitist tend to think that way.

Obama is NOT ahead in the popular vote, Hilary is. Obama is only ahead in that sub-set of the popular vote the DNC has decided to recognize, but there is nothing in the DNC rules that says that the DNC must reject MI & FL delegates.
To win the nomination outright either candidate needed to collect 2,025 delegates. Neither will, so a possible outcome?
Hilary will have more of the popular vote (if we include votes from MI + FL) and there is not reason we shouldn’t.
Barack will have more actual delegates (but not the needed 2,025).
The voters in two key states (MI + FL) will have been disenfranchised.
As a MI voter, who is resigned to not having his voted counted, I shall be perfectly content if all of the rest of you in the other states also have your votes ignored.
Let the super delegates decide, and let the chips fall where they may!
:-)

We’ve had enough of these old corrupt polititions cheating, changing the rules, bribing and lieing. The democratic party should step in and make Hillary and Bill shut up and play by the rules. They are making the Unuted States look like a bunch of corrupt gangsters. Hillary Clinton is like Robert Mugabie, she loses the election so she changes the rules. Is this the way the United States works?

Ummm…professors can spell ‘fantacy’ correctly–even in Indiana (it’s fantasy).
I’m most interested why all the shrill attacks on Obama come from women.
I’d be willing to bet most are over the age of 45. If there’s an over-50 candidate qualified in this race, it’s McCain. Hillary can’t get her stories straight (let alone her home states–>she has claimed Arkansas, Pennsylvania, Illinois, and New York).

1 more reason obama should not be president. He can not count! This guys is suppost to be running on a ticket of honesty, but he picks and chooses to distort reality. Same old politics of the past and he is NO DIFFERENT!

drae said: Obama’ supporters in MI told voters to fill in uncommitted. Why would they do so if they didn’t expect an issue would come up? Why block a revote? Why?
I agree. OBAMA BLOCKS THE REVOTE, BECAUSE HIS OWN UNBRIDLED AMBITION IS MORE IMPORTANT TO HIM THAN THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. That along should give us all pause.

Even if you do not count the delegates of florida and michigan, the numbers of voters there still count – afterall, they voted fair and square.
And you had better believe that voters in florida and michigan will count in the general election.
Looks like we’re going to get 4 years of Mccain if obama gets the nomination.

JDinPA
Ah so you know how to count a vote in Michigan by what Hillary said today? Please explain.

Obama took his name off the MI ballot, but even if you give him all the uncommited delegates/votes, Clinton still beat him by a landslide. Thats why obama didnt want a revote in MI. He knows he would loose!

I’ve started to look at Obama differently after the past several weeks. Now I really do wonder why he doesn’t want MI & FL to vote. If he doesn’t have a problem doing that to some people what would make me think he won’t eventually do it to me (i.e. health care).

The General election will be about the “Big 3″ states: Philadelphia, Florida and Ohio. The networks will be looking closely the results of these 3 states….Because, since after JFK, all Presidents won at least 2 of these states and historically, no Republican has won without winning Ohio…..
So with this theory, Hillary having a better record than Obama in those states should be the smartest bet for the Democrats…As for Obama, he should just go home and eat all his waffles..

there will always be cheaters in this world. rules are rules….
I am started to wonder why this party is called democratic party. After all it has a lot in common with the Mugabe’s party in Zimbabwe

Let’s get real!!!!
If Obama doesn’t get the nomination – Mc Cain will win in November. Why?
Because the tens of thousands of new voters Obama inspired to join the process will not come out and vote for the same old politics. If Hillary gets the nomination in November it will be the Clinton haters and the republicans
vs the old established democratic base minus the black vote. It will be a done deal.

“He can’t win the big states, he can’t win the swing states” Blah, blah. If Hillary’s so strong, tell me why doesn’t she have more delegates and popular votes? Yes popular vote…because what Hillary DIDN’T tell you is, even if you add FL and MI…Obama is still ahead by more than 100,000 votes. She just neglected to tell everyone that in MI, she only counted the votes she got and gave NONE to Obama. This from the woman who says she was under sniper fire in Bosnia. How can we believe anything she or her husband says? They are big liars and CRAZY!!! If she’s stronger and the tide has turned as she said, then I expect her to win ALL of the remaining contests.

I’m not “bitter”….I’m not “abstract”…I’m not “old”…Obama just doesn’t get it. I am a voter.
And if Obama silences my voice I hope the super delegates will listen.
It’s not about race or demographics at all…..it is about the fact that over 50% of the voters in this nomination process want to be heard. COUNT ALL THE VOTES because the VOTES ARE NOT ABSTRACT! It’s not over yet!
Hillary is Rising and Obama is whining!

Obama is such a hypocrite. Nothing else to say —- He is as stupid as an old crazy uncle!!! Wasn’t that his line when referring to Wright?

Louis – You are right on. The old adage i that we deserve the government we get is absolutely true. Hillary and Bill are ruthless, cut throat politicians. They will destroy anyone who crosses their path. Hillary deserves to be President. All that sniper fire she survived for us makes her entitled.

I vote Hillary Clinton to be CFO of a new Enron. The way she claims to have more popular votes (including Florida & Michigan after these 2 states were banned by her party and after all Democratic candidate agreed to pull ou ot them)! This creative vote counting method of Hillary RIVALS Enron’s ex-CFO Andrew Fastow.

But I think Obama is Honest, and Hillary cant be Trusted!

I would like to add.
On Rev Wright, Who among us doesn’t have a relationship with a person that spouts views we don’t believe in. (Fathers, Mothers, boss, friends, etc..)
Are you them? do you make decisions that they make or do you make your own? Do or have you separated yourself from them?
On Trust, I wish that Madeline Albright was the other contestant. I wish the first serious female candidate was worthy of my respect. In my world trust is an important thing. Maybe the most important. I can’t say I trust either candidate, but one is obviously lies more.
On the election, It was hard for me to vote for certain candidates in the past, the one I supported didn’t make it to the top. I think it is like the two mothers fighting over the baby, the king offers to cut it in half and the baby will die. The real mother relents to save the babies life. In this election the Real candidate will stop killing the other with attacks and just be. Win or Lose this will save the party.
On Pennsylvania,
In what world does anyone say that our team scored more points in a single quarter or period, therefore, even though behind in total points, they win?

Hillary Clinton supporters have lost their minds.
NONE of their names shOuld have been on the ballot in either FL or MI. You want to be mad at somebody, be mad at the idiot DEM leaders in those states who moved up their primaries KNOWING it would render them meaningless and disenfrachising their own voters. And the HRC followers claiming the popular vote in a state Obama’s name WASN’T EVEN ON THE BALLOT is mind-boggling.
Congrats on your PA win, but you’re still going to lose and you all know it. You just can’t bring yourself to admit it. The truth hurts. Next up, getting your butz handed to you in North Carolina and possibly losing Indiana or at best winning by the smallest of margins. Either way, she is STILL going to be behind in popular vote and delegate count EVEN IF THEY GIVE HER FL AND MI. They won’t though. So keep practicing your victims excuses because MI and FL will not be seated and Superdelegates will not recognize your popular vote numbers from a state Obama wasn’t on the ballot in.

SCOTT-WAIT TILL THE GE WHEN THE REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED FOR HILLARY CONVERT BACK TO REPUBLICAN.

Dan: Maybe you have a hateful, racist and anti-American “mentor and spiritual adviser” like Obama does, but I sure don’t. The fact that he does, speaks volumes about his character and judgment (or lack thereof).

Obama is basically a “flawed” candidate. Somehow, he has managed to turn this election into a racial divide! Before his guru, David Axelrod, started his “spin” on Hillary’s speech about MLK, race was NOT a factor… their camp started it all.
AND, with the help of the OBAMA NEWS NETWORKS, CNN and MSNBC, it escalated to the point of the discovery of Rev. Wright et al. This has obviously backfired on Obama.
The proof lies in how PA voted in yesterday’s primary. And NC will validate this as well. Blacks will overwhelmingly vote for Obama, and… you all know the ending.
And no matter how you spin it… HILLARY WON!!!
She won ALL the big States… and she won in FLA. Obama of course wants to dispute this, BUT HIS NAME WAS ON THE BALLOT too, so there!

Obama’s supporters in FL and MI did get the opportunity to vote for Obama. Obama advertised in both states and instructed his supporters to write-in his name on the ballot. Obama should at least get one vote for each supporter that wrote in his name on the ballot in FL and MI.

Still, She IS receiving support from key black leaders and obviously some black voters. In the face of what has to be tremendous pressure from peers, it makes their support all the more impressive!
This is why I believe Hillary gave Mayor Nutter such a big hug when she stepped on stage last night.

Obama doesn’t consider MI and FL voters are of any worth in the primaries, but expects them to cast a vote for him in the election (should he get that far).
He’s counting on his black, affluent, and student voters to carry him. His 15 minutes of fame ended in PA.
bye bye bama not sorry to see you go.

Cookie, Obama’s name was on the ballot in FL. Along with Clinton’s. She crushed him… The FL vote should count!

Truthfully this race is already over. I don’t care how much the media likes high ratings, It’s over….no way to catch up, no michigan or florida votes to count sorry… let’s play fair, fire those leaders in your state congress and don’t blame obama because your candidate can’t win.

I agree, if one more dumb thing comes out of his mouth (and it will) or another anti-American looney close friend or family member surfaces (and it will), Obama will not win the election… he is already on the line as it is.
I am an independent and I will never, ever vote for Obama. Not be cause of his color, but because he really proved to me at the last debate that he cannot handle tough questions.

Obama wins dreams, the Clinton’s win Elections!!! Hillary08!

To one person who said he can’t handle tough questions. It’s sad to see people like to be lied to from their candidate. He didn’t have any tough questions to answer, they were all garbage. Why is it black people can’t love america too?

DO NOT LET GET DISTRACTED ABOUT THE PRIMARIES IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.RIGHT NOW, WE DON’T CARE WHO IS GOING TO BE THE FIRST BLACK OR THE FIRST WOMAN TO BECOME PRESIDENT OF U.S.LET’S FORGET ABOUT THE HISTORY THE TWO CANDIDATES WOULD MAKE WHEN ELECTED BECAUSE THAT IS NOT WHAT ALL THIS IS ABOUT.WE WILL TALK ABOUT HISTORY WHEN EVERYTHING WILL BE OVER.WE NEED TO BRING OUT IN OUR COMMENTS,THE RIGHT JUDGEMENT ,IN A RESPONSIBLE AND INTELLECTUAL WAY THAT WILL HELP DETERMINE THE BEST CANDIDATE FOR THE PARTY.FOR THAT REASON, WE NEED TO STOP BRINGING OUR FEELINGS AND SENTIMENTS INTO THE PROCESS,FOR THEY CAN LEAD US TO A WRONG CHOICE
LET’S BE VERY VERY VERY CAREFUL

The fact is this Clinton did not care about Florida or Michigan which is why she also agreed that their primary would not count. When she realized that Obama was kicking her butt in this race and she needed the votes and delegates from Florida and Michigan, that is when she started crying like a little girl. Clinton has no chance of winning, Obama has such a huge lead it will be impossible. The sad thing is if she would have been mature and ran a CLEAN instead of DIRTY race maybe they couldve shared the same ticket. Obama is the true fighter. He walked into this race virtually unknown to most in the United States and he is beating Clinton, actually, the Clintons (both Hillary and Bill. With all of the EXPERIENCE that she claims, she is being beaten on all fronts by Obama. Even her campaign staff is out of order. My view is this if she can not control and manage her campaign staff, she shouldnt be in the White House

GO HILLARY!!! GO HILLARY!!!
and don’t forget to count the votes in China and Columbia, She’s the best!!!I’m voting for her in November.
OMG, I’m going to cry!!!

Obama fans are crying about an ad that the Republicans may use that depicts Obama’s racist and anti-American “mentor and spiritual adviser,” Rev. Wright. If Obama didn’t want to be associated with such a crude and hateful man, he shouldn’t have attended his church for 20 years, considered him his mentor and spiritual adviser, and appointed him to one of his election committees. I remember when Obama was asked about Wright before anyone knew about him, he said that there is “nothing controversial at all” about him or his church. Well, if Wright is such a nice and non-controversial figure, why is everyone upset that he is starring in a commercial. Obama fans can’t have it both ways. They’ve been defending Wright constantly in order to defend their messiah. As such, they should be happy to see this “wonderful man” who has “done so much for the community” on television. It should only help Obama, right?:

I’m beginning to see why Karl Rove thinks we’re so gullible. All the people who bought his hype in 2000 and 2004 are on thIS board tonight. Even given where the GOP has brought us. Even given that John McCain wants to make permanent the tax cuts that were supposed to fuel the economy, but didn’t. Even though John McCain can only point to his having been a war hero as a strength. Even though the Bush Administration has shredded the Constitution, using signing statements to avoid following the rule of law, flagrant breaking of laws, paying members of the press to write complimentary articles about no child left behind. Even though Hillary voted along with other misguided people to send our young men and women to Iraq based on faulty intelligence. Even as Americans lose their homes, thanks to the wheeling and dealing of predatory lenders, who were given carte blanche by the Bush Administration to trick some unsuspecting Americans. We are in quicksand, and obviously loving it! We would rather chose the devils we know (Hillary, McCain and the NeoCons in the background), than someone who will help us to regain our integrity in the world, as would Obama. Many foreign leaders are hoping for an Obama win, because then we can once more forge the special alliances with other countries that George W. Bush and his cronies have so arrogantly destroyed. We need to think for ourselves, stop listening to the spin, and face reality. We are headed down the drain fast, and should catch ourselves before we reach a point of no return. Remember, though NAFTA was a Republican initiative, Bill Clinton signed it into law, and Hillary was there honing the experience that she touts so loudly today. It is time for CHANGE! Bush/Clinton – Bush/Clinton — ENOUGH!

To Ed,
Ed, Thank you for replying to my post, I think it is fascinating that this blog and others exists to allow people to communicate with each other. It wasn’t around in the last 5 of 6 elections for President I voted in.
I do wish the paid staffers for each campaign would get off of here and let people talk without propaganda.
I served as the Vice Chairman of my local Republican Party in the 90s, and have since moved to independent.
Lets say Hillary does figure out a way to rest the nomination, I see that as improbable, but Barack could say or do something that would merit it, so not impossible.
In the 90s there were many opinions formed about the Clintons that will resurface should that be the case.
1. The fact that most American women viewed Hillary’s acceptance of Bill’s number of affairs as a political decision will haunt her especially among the general populace.
2. The numerous investigations, Whitewater etc.., with and without merit, will make for some TV attack ad fodder.
3. The idea that my two grown sons have never had the opportunity to have ever voted for any other name than Bush, or Clinton in 20+ years, just doesn’t feel American to me. That feels somewhat elitist.
The hard facts of politics is the mere act of running for office seems to change people. I am going to vote, not so much for a person, but against the terrible corporate influence that has destroyed my country in the last couple of decades. If you can convince me that is Hillery then giddyup, I promise you I will cast that way. I vote on the 6th.
(Note I didn’t say convince me that it is NOT Barack or John Mac)

James Carville just summed up Obama’s campaign very nicely, “he’s running away from the presidency, not towards the presidency.” If Obama wants to win the GE, he needs to allow the MI and FL votes to count, or allow a revote, he needs to agree to debate Hillary again, and he needs to stop “hiding under the skirts of the NYT editorial board everytime something goes the way he doesn’t like” so says James Carville very succinctly. If Obama STEALS this nomination, the way he cheated and used dirty tricks to get his state senate seat and his US Senate seat, then Democrats will look at this primary process as Election 2000 all over again. What is going on DNC? Obama and the DNC are resorting to the POLITICS OF THE NEOCONS! The “Golden Boy” is not so golden, and the people are sending messages loud and clear, they want their votes to count and their voices to be heard!! If Obama wasn’t such a wimp, he’d allow a revote, debate Hillary 9 more times, and stop his whining. GO HILLARY 08!

I agree, if one more dumb thing comes out of his mouth (and it will) or another anti-American looney close friend or family member surfaces (and it will), Obama will not win the election… he is already on the line as it is.
I am an independent and I will never, ever vote for Obama. Not be cause of his color, but because he really proved to me at the last debate that he cannot handle tough questions.

SIMPLE, OBAMA WIN’S, 4 MORE YEARS OF BUSH. F A C T !

FL has 27 electoral votes and MI has 17. Florida is the 4th largest state and MI is the 7th largest state in the electoral college.
Obama, you disenfranchise those voters, you can kiss even being competitive if you are the nominee. Dukakis of 1988 won’t even be close to what they will do to your biracial behind.

We voters, in Florida, voted when we were told to do so…it was not our choice on the day to vote and we should be disenfranchised; if so count on us to disenfranchise Obama, if he is the candidate in November….Our electoral votes matter each election. Obama lied, he had political ads on tv all the time, over and over and over…we had a record turnout and Hillary won; he was on the ballot, people and she won. This is a democratic process, to not count our votes, because Obama does not want them counted; that is the reason and we know it.

Melissa, that is a flimsy excuse not to vote for Obama. Why don’t you admit the real reason you WON’T vote for him. Obama didn’t invent what happened in Florida or Michigan, but election officials of those states did. I don’t hear anybody complaining about why they broke the rules in the first place, which has brought us to this sorry pass. The officials who decided to hold elections ahead of the stated schedules deserve the bulk of the guff and ridicule for breaking the rules. Instead, because you want two liars back in the White House, you want to blame Obama because the rules were broken in those states. But then, I guess there are more liars in the world than truth tellers, and I suppose all liars stick together.

CHARLES PENN—-YOU HIT HE NAIL ON THE HEAD! ON MINE EARLIER POST I STATED THE SAME! IF DEMOCRATS CANT BE WITH US WHY US WITH THEM.

You people speak as if Obama caused the problems with the Florida and Michigan voting debacle, when those two states simply broke the rules and were punished for it.
======================================
Blah..blah…blah…lot of spin there. no matter how much Obamaniacs can spin rest of the population isn’t buying it..Here are the facts:
1) Rules were broken by MI& FL party officials and it is a messup
2) the voters of MI and FL are not responsible for #1 above
3)Obam camp was/is opposed to a revote ( which would clear up the mess) not because they are all for the rules but for the fact that most likely he’ll lose both states.
4) Knowing all of the above ………Obamaniacs desperately claim we should follow the “rules” and not count the votes of FL and MI.
5) New kinda politics?!!! Hope and Change! Uniter?!!!

Obama is such a wimp. No guts, no brains and cant put two words together if he isnt reading from a script. He is a total elitist and a black supremacist. He was sent to the best schools and given preferential treatment his entire life. He also has proven to be the dirtiest of all politicians using bully and silencing techniques to supress voters. Who would cast a vote for this Black Militant who along with his wife, can barely stand America.

Thanks for the Hope of a better tomorrow, Senator Barack. I absolutely love you… Win or Lose, You are a real hero… Dr.King was suppose to be a communist because he loved America, it wasn’t until he died, some people realized he was only trying to help. Thanks for caring about Me,God Bless Ya!

Hey david,
That means if I get a call from the Obama camp, I may be talking to a Hamas sucicide bomber a terrorist?
BWAAAAAAAA

Obama’s tired of the same old Wash politics?? He wants to change Wash??
LOL LOL——————————–
Obama, along with Edwards, Biden, and Richardson, removed their names with about two hrs to go on the last day of the filing period in MI because they wanted to suck up to Iowa & NH voters and try to p— NH and IA voters off against Clinton if she stayed on the ballot. The DNC did not ask them to take their names off the ballot.——————–Obama tried to have his name removed from FL ballots too, but FL law would not allow him to. Why would he want his name off the FL ballot?? With his name off the ballot his claims that the vote was unfair would seem more valid. With his name ON the ballot, it is just a humiliating defeat and the reason he is fighting so hard to keep the vote from counting as cast. Obama doesn’t think it’s fair if people vote against him. These are examples of the same dirty Chicago political tactics he used to win his first elections.

I meant to write: “If all you are making is a moral argument (not in fact an argument based on DNC rules) then the fact that MI and FL’s votes are … BEING willfully shut out here is very, very relevant.

Well, I guess Michelle Obama had every reason to just begin to be proud of her country. She’s probably by now realized how mistaken she is — she spoke too soon. And Obama tried to be above the fray, giving whites the benefit of the doubt–hoping that embuing a people with attributes they don’t in fact have, would cause them to adopt those attributes. How wrong he was!

Obama is ahead in states!!! All the ones that Republicans carry in every election… Clinton has won all the “BIG” states that swing back and forth… IF dems have any real chance in this NOV election to defeat McCain, they will nominate Clinton… Remember another Clinton won it twice!

this has always been hillary’s contest to lose. in every state she has gone in ahead and lost ground. not a winner. all she has to thank are aging women’s libbers and bubbas. not a winner.

Obama sponsored a bill to make “mail-in” voting easier. Then he complained and blocked a “mail-in” revote in FL, saying there was no way to check the accuracy of the votes. Then Obama and his big team of lawyers blocked a revote in MI. Obama prefers the caucus states because the thugs from moveonorg. can go in and use intimidation and other scare tactics to swing the caucus vote for Obama. By the way, Virginia has an open primary, and there was a HUGE Republican crossover vote for Obama in the state. So all you Obamanations saying that Obama will win VA in the GE, don’t count on it, Virginians cling to their guns and their religion..Obama is losing his “aura of new politics” every day, and democrats are really beginning to see how the “new Washington” would work with Obama in the White House..it would be tea time with Rev. Wright, Farrakhan, talk kickbacks with Tony Rezko, talk business in Syria with Tony Rezko, talk Hamas and pro-palestinian policies, talk about “typical white people”, small town people who are bitter and clinging to their guns and religion…oh, it will be endless…

hillary supporters-grown-up. rules are rules.you break them,you pay the price.NO TO CROOKED FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN FOR MS.DISHONEST HRC!!!!!!!

Frankie……..
I guess you would welcome the term elitist for yourself whilst condemning its reference to Obama.
The problem with your argument is that you base your argument on assumptions rather than facts.
Lets consider the facts.
As far as gender goes it never fails to amaze me how people such as yourself play the “women are so desperate” angle.
DI suppose you don’t care that up until PA Clinton held 50% of women voters compared to Obama’s 46%. Gee lets go deregister that group of 4% desperate women that tilts the female vote against poor Barack.
How did you miss that men are obviously more desperate to retain a male in the white house as they go for Obama 53% to 41%.
Where is your horror that Clinton retains an 8% advantage with white voters whilst Obama retains a massive 68% advantage with black voters.
Obama receives 83% of all black voters yet you don’t call that desperate don’t even notice it.
uneducated: no high school certificate only accounts for 5 % of voters.
rural: only 9% of the voters
blue collar: lets say under 75k 50% of the vote.
Stop trying to portray Obama as some victim and degrading the vote people vote for who they want, why they want and it doesn’t matter a toss what their reasons are because it is a democracy.

You watch Hillary to win IN, KT,westVA, Guam, Puerto Rico with large margins!
Obama will carry NC and OR!
The end the superdelegates will have to switch for Hillary because she will run as a bipartisan independant!
LOL

He does not respect Florida and Michigan with saying that words.
His backer, Bill Richardson keeps saying he is the uniter.
Proven , he can not get white working class and Catholic votes.

She won in PA and will win the nomination. How does Madam President sound to all of our BHO supporters.

a win is a win …..BO will not be the nominee and will not be president ..didnt you people see in the exit polls that 24 percent of hillary supporters will not vote for BO thats a problem for you… please go away the true democratic party does not want you… need screwed up and made you part of the process !

It’s a Republican – Clinton ploy. They paid Hillary to run.
Here’s the deal – they pay Hillary and her campaign expenses – she runs – McCain gets in – she keeps the money they paid her. Obama put a crimp in that plan – they can’t beat Obama in November – that’s why she has to fight till the end – she doesn’t want to give the money back….. That explains their $50 million in speaking fees….
Get real people.

How come Obama and his cronies blocked Florida and Michigan from have their revotes. What’s wrong with a revote? The fact is the polls show that in any revote in Michigan and Florida Hillary would have trounced Obama even worse. Florida and Michigan should boycott the general election if Obama is the nominee. Also, how come Obama is chicken to debate Clinton again one-on-one. Is he afraid people will see the real, flawed Obama like they did in the previous debate. Do we democrats want a chicken, coward, seriously flawed, wimpy Obama to be our nominee?

Well, well……who ever wins the latest state has the ‘momentum’. Pundits across the land get paid for their take on ‘what’s next’. This time for only the 15th time it is HRC, just like when Obama took Iowa. However he has had 30 state wins…..his turn for the pundits eye next. Why are we as a nation so fickle we will change with every TV analysis? With every negative comment…why are we so gullible to believe each and every edited sound byte? Obama is ahead in the popular vote and for HRC to twist and turn it into, ‘Well so what…he has the popular vote, that doesn’t matter! Super Delegates should vote for me anyway!’ Thanks Hill, thanks for telling me again that my vote does not matter.
Kinda sounds like Nov. 2000, doesn’t it. And look what we got that time!

People just lose track of the facts when they are guided only by a negative emotional approach, I’d say unethical (as it is against the common good) and obsessive.
Most people supporting any candidate seem to forget values, truth and facts, when arguing in an election. It is absolutely clear that they think they’re the only morally right when, ironically, they are shamelessly making use of low attacks to manifest their opinion and are willing to forget value or ethics in order to win.
Points of view do not exist anymore, just justifications, as the side is taken in any issue before reasonable analysis of the facts, and based only on the side it benefits. This is not adequate social behaviour.
This is a sign in our society of strong weakness and deviation from what we are supposed to be and from what we expect for future generations.

The real facts are that Obama outspent Clinton 3 to 1 in Pennsylvania, and lost. She won 78% of the blue Collar vote, she won 80% of the Catholic vote, and 68% of the white male vote. America is built on the blue collar vote, its America’s bread and butter. You can bet the Super Delegates are taking notice to this. Added to this, Clinton has won all the BIG swing states by a margin of 10+ points, again, the Dems don’t want to lose these states to the GOP. And now, the Reverend Wright is appearing this weekend again, in an interview with Bill Moyers. It seems that Obama IS unelectable, and I honestly feel that the Super Delegates will see this. Also, Florida and Michigan votes will be counted and hopefully seated. If they are not counted, this will rip the DNC to pieces. Either way, Obama will not gain. These states will be Clinton’s, giving her the necessary delegate count to capture the nomination. I see Obama’s campaign imploding…..he can’t close the deal ….he has a lot of money, but basically is an empty suit. Clinton, with a lot less money is doing a better job and is more effective. She is a fighter that won’t give up….this is what America needs as a President. Hillary 08 !

To George:
No George, the only vote that doesn’t matter in fact is the vote of ta MI or FL Democrat. So, please, quit whining.
Neither Obama or Hillary has managed to get the necessary delegates in the remaining primaires (2,025) so let the Superdelegates decide. That is what the DNC rules dictate.

What I find absurd about Obama supporters is how they “cling” to the rules that suit them.
They choose to disenfranchise voters by shutting Florida & Michigan out because it would hurt Saint Obama. Those are the rules they say.
Well then cling to these rules Obama supporters: The Superdelegates can vote for whoever they want to!!!!!

NDRICK50- KNOWING THE HILLARY SUPPORTERS THEY ALSO WANT TO COUNT CHINA WHERE ALL THE AMERICAN JOBS WENT –THANKS TO BILL.

Wait, if you count Bills votes in 1992 and 1996 and all of bill’s votes fro Gov and HRC senate elections, clearly these are all meant to ascend Hilary to president. Actual the whole system since the constitution was designed to put HRC in office, so actually every vote ever given anyway is for HRC, she has 1 BILLION VOTES AND COUNTING.

Newsweek is a drivin Anti-American news source. Just looking for support to pay rich CEO salaries. Check this real link out… Hillary is ahead by 125,000 plus popular votes now…
Popular Vote (w/FL & MI)** 14,993,348 47.4% 15,116,076 47.8% Clinton +122,728 +0.4%

How can Hillary Pinnochio Clinton
argue that Michigan’s votes should be counted? There was No Election in
Michigan! Hillary Clinton was the only name on the ballot! That is not an election it is a coronation!
I’m sure that in Russia the Michigan
Primary with one candidate on the ballot
would be considered democracy but
this is the U.S.A.!
Obama is ahead in delegates, popular
votes(even counting Florida)and
states won!
Hillary Clinton go home before
you destroy your own Party!

Can we honestly be fair in MI and FL. I think Hillary and her supporters are desperate…It’s kind of sad to watch grownups act like my 3 year old.

To Carol 17:
Thank you. That is the point I keep trying to make. I am glad someone else sees things this way, too.

If Florida and Michigan doesn’t clean up their state house instead of insulting the guy they wanted to lose, they’ll never get a fair chance at electing a president. I personally believe the republicans tried to set the democrats up on purpose, so they can rely on your emotions to sway the vote for them. Those republicans were right to count on you guys ignorance, evidence by many of the commentors today. Grow Up and punish the real culprit.

Hillary’s argument about winning Florida is just bogus. I live in Florida, and I, like millions of Americans around the country support Obama’s message of changing the way business is done in Washington passionately. Despite this, I didn’t vote during the Florida primary because it was widely publicized that our votes wouldn’t count. In fact, I remember telling to my wife that I didn’t understand why anyone was voting because it didn’t really count for anything. The candidates didn’t even campaign here in Florida. So how can Hillary now claim she won Florida? If Obama had campaigned here and the vote would have mattered I and perhaps many others would have gone out and voted for Obama. The actual vote tally therefore is not valid. And don’t even try it with Michigan where Obama wasn’t even on the ballot. Hillary is old politics: political chicanery, lies and empty promises. END THE DRAMA -

Uhm John… News flash, Hillary insulted me. She flatly said she didn’t need the black vote. She also little states didn’t matter. States like Indiana and NC, and now she cries because she can’t catch up. You guys are incredible to vouch for the clintons. Please, please, please, research this woman…everything from Nafta (which is why we’re in a recession, gotta love that experience) the war, (Bosnia bombings), Bin Laden and why bill let him go twice, China and the nuclear weapons sold, Cafta, Peter Paul vs Clinton in september, too many to list. Barack is a saint because he could have destroyed her by now, but, he’s tried to hold the party together, the republicans will not be that nice, they are praying that hillary is the nominee. If you think for one second a true republican will vote hillary, your dreaming.

wait a minute!!!! … that is reverse racism…. Hillary never brought up race Obama did well his evil rove/Cheney like surrogates did… honestly…..just to vote en masse cause hes black… I wish you would look at the issues…. and sleeze in poltics has no place so Rezko and ayers black panthers etc… I mean this operation reminds me of the movie denzel washington made about the black gangs of NY in the 70s … which if you read BOs book he was livign around that kind of enviornment at Columbia and sought out the radical militant african americans because he was insecure being mixed…Obama will never be president!

As a voter, I feel that all the candidates deserve to be treated equally by the press and in the debates. This is not happening today. When one candidate is shown favoritism by the media in the debates and press coverage, then it is the right thing to do to stand up and point this out. SNL even did a skit on the blatant favoritism. Senator Obama has benefitted from the massive media coverage of his campaign and the press handles him with kid gloves. While Hillary did not receive fair coverage in the camapaign contests, McCain has received even less coverage. McCain hasn’t complained yet because he should win the Republican nomination.

I am voting for Mrs. Clinton in NC!
I am black and I can clearly see that Obama can not win in November!
I hope my sisters will do the same!
A woman president in 2008!

“I’m sure it would be a much different outcome if the election were held today in those two states”
Then Barack needs to tell his lawyers to stop blocking revote efforts.
He doesn’t want the original votes to count and he doesn’t want revotes (I guess because he’s not confident in his ability to win). He just doesn’t want those voters to count, period.

Kim
I am black – Where did HRC say Black people don’t count???? Obama plays us constantly. One minute he doesn’t care he is of colour next minute its all about his life as a black man.
If Obama is a saint you need a refresher course on saintliness – there are none so blind a those that cannot see.
Obama is not the role model for my children I want. I want a man like their father someone without a chip on his shoulder.

Hillary has lostr so many contests.. now she is saying the tide has turned.. yes the tide has turned. the race is over.. Hillary-Huckabee go home

Astute political observers know that the PA primary result was really about something we dare not admit but sense intuitively: The so-called older white vote supporting Hillary are largely people who will not support a black president. Rendel even admitted as much publically. This constituency will vote for McCain before Obama if Hillary is not the nominee and I fear this may be true of many Hillary supporters come the General Election. Blacks have taken disproportionately to Obama and this is partly the counter balance vote to that. Unfortunately, an Obama-Clinton marriage would be a disaster because they clash in every way that matters. This election is about the old school versus the new school. Its time to pass the torch again America!

Anyone saying the Florida and Michigan contests were actually contested properly is just lying. Those are two of the four states where more Republicans voted than Democrats, the other 2 being Arizona and Utah. It clearly had an effect on the vote. Those results are fraudulent.

Newjersey dude,
Do you think Hillary wants to become a VP of Obama?
She would work harder than him as the president himself.
She would handle everything better than him.
He already said it on the interview he will need somebody more experience than him to handle everything.
If that is the case why would people choose him to become a president?

Dan, FL is a closed primary state. Where are you getting your information?
I live in FL, and we did not have a large number of people changing their party affiliation prior to the primary. And if you recall, the republican nominee had not been decided so the republicans were not about to throw away their vote by raiding the Dem primary. It was a legitimate election certified by our Secretary of State.

Hillary is the singular most divisive candidate in the U.S.
She is dividing the democratic party, and garnering republican votes in the democratic primaries. (8% of her vote in Texas was from republicans…they know she can’t possibly beat McCain…just ask…)
She needs to quit for the sake of having a democratic president.
We need unity and change.
Not clinton.

I was disappointed at the inaccuracy of ABC.com with the following sentence:
“The junior Senator from Illinois also complained about his rival’s approach to their nomination fight.”
Unless I’m mistaken he is a freshman Senator. Experience is a major part of this Democratic campaign and it would only be fair to present his national credentials factually.

To Dave Stir, TX | Apr 23, 2008 5:00:51 PM
You write: “The DNC rules say the person with the most delegates wins… period.”
I think you are mistaken, or are you deliberately lieing.
The DNC rules I know say the candidate with 2,0025 delegates wins, period. Otherwise its up to the Super Delegates, as “mr | Apr 24, 2008 12:24:56 AM” rightly points out. Now the SD’s can take Obama’s lead into account when deciding who they think will make the best candidate in the GE, but they can (and should) also factor in Obama’s worrying inability to win in crucial states, and among crucial constituencies. Maybe they will decide that his lead is the single most important fact, but maybe they will give other factors greater weight (like the probable vote of the elderly, latinos, working-class dems etc). Nothing in the DNC rules says that they can only take Obama’s somewhat dubious lead into accoutn, a lead in a race he did not actually win.
A

factfinder19,
Florida being a closed primary state has nothing to do with what I stated. I stated that it was one of 4 states where more Republicans voted than Democrats.
I get my facts from the facts. For a factfinder, you have all the facts wrong. Look at the votes cast in that state. More people voted in the Republican primary than the Democratic Primary. That is a fact. Here are the numbers:
Democrat votes: 1,684,390
Republican votes: 1,920,350
Given that there has been significantly higher turnout on the Democratic side this year, telling people their vote didn’t count clearly effected turnout. As I stated only Michigan (another did not count election), Arizona (McCain’s home state) and Utah (huge Mormon population) had a similar trend. I didn’t say Republicans were voting in the Democratic primary, I said that a crapload of Democrats didn’t vote because they were told their vote didn’t count. That is irrefutable. So, how can you count tainted numbers?
And the Republican nomination was not decided yet. It was not decided until after Super Tuesday. The Florida primary was in January (which is why it was deemed illegal by the DNC).

Travis,
A state has two senators… the one who most recently joined the senate is indeed generally referred to as the “junior senator.”
Yikes… I’m actually defending the accuracy of ABC on something!
That being said, 9.4 still does not equal 10.

Dan, How can you say the numbers are tainted? We had a record turnout for primary voters (both rep and dem). I’d like to know where you got your numbers, because over 1.7 million dems voted on Jan 29 including myself. If we had access to the voter rolls, I bet you would find that the people who CLAIM that they didn’t vote because they it wouldn’t count are people who never vote in the primaries anyway. Lame excuse!!

Factfinder,
Those are the voter returns. Go to any website and look up the Florida vote count. It is not people claiming they voted, those are actual votes. More Republicans voted than Democrats, which is proof that the vote count was tainted. Why is this so hard to understand? Of course record Republicans turned out, their primary was counted. That is the point. Same goes for Michigan. I am also from Florida, and leading up to the election, Democrats were repeatedly told their vote wasn’t going to count. Then, more Republicans voted than Democrats, and you are trying to tell me that telling people that their vote isn’t going to count doesn’t effect who voted? That is just asinine.

To Joe M:
RE: “I’ll vote for McCain”.
Please do. It only shows you are more loyal to some vague image of a man, than to the ideas central to the Democratic party. Personally, I will vote for whichever candidate the Dems nominate.
I do find it curious that Obama supporters charge Hillary with destroying the party, but then turn around and threaten to defeat the party if their man doesn’t win by any means necessary. “I’ll vote for Mcain”, indeed! The man will continue the war in Iraq indefinitely, make tax-cuts for the super rich permanent, is 100% anti-abortion, and has no plans to reform healthcare. What kind of Democrat are you?
Also: Obama supporters celebrate “a person who has the courage to have a vision and new ideas”. Please, what exactly are these new ideas? All I ever hear is CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE. But that is not an idea, that is what you get when you split a dollar bill at the gas station.

I want to have my vote count too. I didn’t vote because I thought it wouldn’t count. Only in a democratic land do we deal with nonsense. Clinton can lie,cheat, steal,and somehow it’s okay with us. Where are our morals? She didn’t care about me or you until she realized she was losing. Now she’s our champion for counting votes. She will do the same thing in the white house. Get us all stirred up when it suits her, and sadly some of us are not smart enough to see or care about’s what’s going on.

Dan, If so many dems stayed home, then why did we have a record turnout on Jan. 29????(Miami Herald 1/28/2008) If you truly do live in FL, then be honest, why did so many people come out to vote on Jan 29? If you really live in FL you will know the answer.

Clearly, Hillary is not trying to “steal” the election. Everyone, Obama and Clinton included, agreed to a set of rules before the process started. Those rules included the following:
1) Florida and Michigan’s delegates do not count.
2) A candidate needs to earn 2,025 (now 2,024 thanks to Joe Lieberman losing his vote) delegates to win the election.
Debating the merits of this system now, and whether it is a good system is futile. If you want to change it for 2012, fine. For this year, those are the rules and they should be adhered to.
Now, Obama will finish clearly ahead in the pledged delegate count (probably 150 or so). But he WON’T reach 2,024. If she can convince enough superdelegates to overturn that margin and get her to 2,024, she has legally won this nomination. Those are the rules. Only a moron would deny that fact.
Her problem is that there are only 300 or so undecided superdelegates, and she will need to convince 70% or so of those to vote for her. That is daunting for her since the natural tendency is to support the people’s votes, and he is ahead on those rubrics. So she needs a cogent argument, and the 2 I see being put forth with regards to winning “important” states (not true, he has won Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Missouri which are also important) and that she is ahead in the popular vote (not true because she is counting 2 elections that she agreed wouldn’t count and not counting 4 other states which do count) aren’t strong enough. She needs him to implode.

its not that yes we can its Yes ‘She” will!!! just keeping his vote totals down in WNC will have the same effect that Mayor Nutter did in Philly keeping Obamas vote to 60-40 Clinton will win… I am part of the 30 Percent that wont vote for Obama regardless in the GE! Mccain is fine with me… btw Ive already voted for Hillary in early votign .. we will shock the world period!!!

Obama is the one handing the White House to McCain. The candidate has fatal flaws and just a few have surfaced recently. He will have to hide from debates(the last one made him look like an idiot so they can’t risk another) and reporters questions for the remainder of the contests.

People, check your facts: HRC won by less than a 10 point margin, and in fact picked up only 9 delegates.

Kenya I understand your sentiments about Iraq but BO cant change the dynamic more than CLinton or Mccain can on Iraq..I have voted for every Dem nominee since I voted first in ’88 and most I kn ew were too liberal to win the GE but I voted for them anyway… this time I simply cannot do whether that makes me a racist or a republican or what its a matter of relevance with Rev Wright and all the other stuff as to Obamas judgement… he simply cannot be allowed to be the president but the will of the people will heard… Im betting Mccain will win that vote so I cant lose… but Hillary still is right on the issues and we need to get away from being ostracized as effete and too liberal as Democrats .. Obama is more of the same period!

Bag, lets just say that it won’t be Obama sleeping in the White House at 3:00am. I almost hope he wins the nomination so I can vote against him twice. I can’t wait to hear his concession speech. Maybe he should start working on it now. Make sure he has a teleprompter!!
And by the way, I am a life long democrat who would never vote for him. Face the facts, he will never win in the GE.

To George:
I actually support Obama. So you’ve pegged me wrong there. I have been trying to make a more general point, that I wish that the more vociferous Obama supporters would stop arguing Hillary is trying to “steal” the election taking her arguments to the Super Delegates. I don’t actually believe (pace Dan’s comments) that her arguments are that convincing, but I think she has a right to make them, and those Democrats who really care about victory in the GE should stop vilifying her for making them. The more rapid Obama supporters (and Hillary supporters) seem more bent on their candidate winning, then our party’s victory, through whichever candidate, in the GE.
Incidentally, there is another “John” on this blog. So, I havent’ been writing all of the entries signed under that name. I have written all of those suggesting that, since neither candidate has locked the nomination according to the rules, we should let them make their best arguments to the Super Delegates, and then let the SD’s decide which candidate is most likely to win in the GE.
I’d prefer if one or the other had in fact won outright. In fact, I’d prefer if Obama had won outright. But he hasn’t. I wish others who support him would quit threatening to destroy the party.

John………. I’m a lifelong Dem I will not, under any circumstances vote for Barack Obama in the general election. Now granted, I’m not silly enough to vote for John McCain but I will go 3rd party.
You can say all you want about me being a “real Democrat” but first and foremost I’m a REAL AMERICAN who has every right to vote as I choose and to follow my heart when my party, and it’s candidate, craps on my head, doesn’t count votes, and quells the voice of American citizens. I have a problem with that and had it happened in South Carolina or another state with a large black contingency then Mr. Obama would be screaming foul from here to the convention. I’m sorry but I can’t support that type of attitude or hypocritical candidate.

Everyone was told to vote by the Florida Democratic Commitee. It was on the TV and all the newspapers. If you didn’t show up to vote, you didn’t care.
There was an important tax issue that everyone needed to vote on also. There was an excellent turnout of voters in Florida. Obama rans ads here, Hillary did not.

DK
I am reassured:-)
Personally, I support Barack Obama (with reservations), but I could also support Hillary (with greater reservations). My remarks impugning your Democratic credentials were in reaction to your saying you would vote for John McCain. I like and respect John McCain, I think he is a true American original – A maverick. But I think his politics are appalling, and his election would be a disaster for the country. I cannot imagine any Democrat – Hillary supporter or Obama supporter – ever voting for him. I can them voting for some other third party candidate. Though honestly, when it comes to their policies, are they that different?
In any event, I wish you well, and meant no offense. I am now going to get some sleep ;-)

Edit:
I can understand Hillary supporter or Barack supporter voting for some other third party candidate, rather than the rival – but honestly, when it comes to Clinton’s or Obama’s policies, are they that different?
My main hope remains that we can get past the personalities of these two candidates, and remember what we all seemed to know only 12 months ago – “Either of them on their worst day will be better than Bush on his best day”

That is true about both of them being better than Bush however a vote for Mccain will deny Obama the White House and even though Obama and Clinton are similar its the tone and the lack of policy… you cant win on personality alone…

No, I don’t think anyone needs to tote a party line. However, I do suspect someone who says they would rather vote for McCain rather than Obama or Clinton may not appreciate how radically, dramatically OPPOSITE his politics are from either Barack or Hillary. Parties, and party affiliation are merely shorthand for expressing those profound ideological differences. I don’t think many Republicans will vote for Obama or Clinton, not because I expect party loyalty of them, but because I assume they don’t actually share the ideas embodied by the Democratic party. That was all I meant when I asked (I forget who it was…) what kind of Democrat they were when they said they’d rather vote for McCain if their preferred candidate didn’t get the nod from the DNC.

Shame.. for shame on anyone that would deny counting the vote of any state! Any attempt to deny a citizens vote, is an assault on democracy itself. The very foundation of this country is being attacked. The common thread that binds all of us together is this very principle,

Mathemathically speaking Obama has zero chance winning against Mc Cain

Dear Superdelegates:
Please END THIS INSANITY. DON’T PERMIT HILLARY TO DESTROY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
IF 60% OF THE DEMOCRATS DON’T LIKE HER, AND 100% OF THE REPUBLICANS HATE HER, THIS MEANS THAT HILLARY IS NOT ELECTABLE.
PLEASE END HILLARY’S REIGN.

why are we putting all this effort arguing over the popular vote?
fact is, a HRC supporter said it right. The superdelegates can vote for WHOEVER they want. Therefore all 50 states votes are “dismissed” in this scenario. The longer this goes on, the worse things will get for the Democratic party. About the only thing that can happen good is that now all these long time voters (as well as brand new ones) will begin to see how they really DO matter, even MI and FL regardless of whether their delegates get seated or not will see how important their vote is. There is something inherently motivating about seeing your votes value.
BTW you people realize you dont actually vote for the president. You vote to tell your state how to vote. Its what the electoral college is all about. Its why popular vote in the general election doesn’t matter.

I would like Hillary to be our nominee based on various issues.
That said she will not be.
I believe the result would possibly be different if the DNC hadn’t messed up Florida and Michigan. Momentum would have been different leading into other states.
I think Obama gained a large number of earlier voters (not all or even the majority) based on a somewhat romantic image of who they thought he is and what he stood for. Time tells tales and people have a broader idea of him and his positions. I think he would have had lesser results if more was known about him earlier. (just my opinion)
He will win even with superdelegates in June because the delegates know the party would not survive the election if they went against him.
Civil unrest would be the polite assessment of the fallout if they did otherwise.
I no more like Obama holding the free will of the superdelegates to ransom than I would Clinton to bully them into submission.
The rules say they are allowed to vote for what they believe is the right candidate and what is right for the party / country. They do not say they must agree with a,b or c. Otherwise no superdelegate would be able to stand against the current result of their state such as Kennedy or Richardson (and vice versa on Clintons supporters)
I do not loathe Obama but I am not convinced he is the man for the job and I think many others share that view and he may well struggle in the general election.

Indeed..Its funny that the John Adams series was shown during the time of the primaries because it was in fact electors… not evn popularly elected ones that chose the President and Benjamin Franklin was asked what kind of nation should we set up and he said “A republic sir, if you can keep it” also mirroring Barrack Obamas attitude that he can just sweep into officeand change everything… the founders knew that they were better off going on and handing the office to the next person.. because of people constantly trying to undermine them…so things havent changed much in 230 yrs!

RD – The DNC didn’t mess up Michigan & Florida. They messed themselves up with their arrogance that the rules didn’t apply to them.

ALL THAT FOR TEN DELEGATES?
CBS: Clinton Picks Up 9 Delegates
Hillary it’s over!

“Clinton Picks Up 9 Delegates”
To be fair, this had almost NOTHING to do with the PA delegates. It ironically has to do with her case to the superdelegates that she is more electable. So all this talk from Clinton and her cronies about the will of the people is not even really about the people themselves, but about coaxing a bunch of unelected party elitists to vote for her.

I am alone in noticing that Clinton only scored a 9.4% ie 9% win in Penn NOT 10% as everybody is claiming (I know I’m not – the british press are reporting it as 9%). We were told that if Clinton only managed a single digit win, she’d have to go….and that’s all she did…so why is she still here?

Dean 25 super delegates want Hillary to drop out of the win so they do not have to deal with MI and FL. No need to concern themselves with MI and FL if one person is in the win.

I am 48 year of age and I called one of the major healthcare provider for basic HMO Insurance. I was quoted a price of $495.00 a monthly.

Before she was behind did she not agree not to count the votes? Interesting that now she cares what the people say.

Janet-you nailed in on Obama!!His talk of “change” is just that ALL TALK!! There is no substance behind him, yet all of his supporters want to believe so bad that they have stopped any real thinking at this point. How can Obama, as a DC insider himself, enact any real “CHANGE”? The only “CHANGE” we are going to get is a much lighter wallet and no real “CHANGE”. He will blame Congress/Senate when not “CHANGE” happens and laugh all the way to the bank with all of our extra tax dollars!! WE CAN’T AFFORD TO ELECT THIS PHONY!! COME ON FINAL 9 AND SEND THE PHONY OBAMA BACK TO HIS SHADY CHICAGO FRIENDS!! CLINTON OR MCCAIN 08!!!!

yes its a fact 26 percent of people in PA will not vote for Obama over Mccain and another 18 percent said they wont vote if hes nominated tis true.. that is all the need be concerned with its impossible for Obama to win the GE

Typos…God I hate typos…Here’s a corrected version:
Hillary has a similar issue as I explained in a previous post.
THe fact is, both the Democratic candidates have an iceberg’s chance in hell at pulling it out in November. Frankly, it’s because Republicans are smarter than Democrats.
Now, before the daggers start flying…think about it. Democrats had the election sewn up a year ago, they could made Mickey Mouse their nominee, and he would have won. The only way the Democrats could lose is if: 1) the Republicans nominated a centrist candidate; 2) the Democrat party split themselves.
A year later…Bibbidi Bobbidi Boo. Both have come true. That is why I say: Republicans are wrong, but smart; Democrats are right, but stupid. It’s harsh, it’s blunt, but nevertheless true. Sorry.

Obama says that Hillary and Bill were both complaining about the media he knows that the media favors him so why would he complain. The first time ABC held his feet to the fire he was crying uncle. I know that Obama has a PHD, he need to use the Degree that God gave him to figure out he can not win in the general election without MI. and FL. Maybe math is where his weakness is his supporter should pull him to the side and let him in on a little secret. Every one knows that he was the one that stopped the revote with MI and FL, the voters want forget. My best friend it a Obama supporter I don’t hold it against him he told me that Obama should just take his chance with MI and FL seems like Obama took my friends advise. He is so arrogant that he might loose in the general election because he has lose focus on the real goal. Some one should pull his coat tail and let him know what’s going on around him. He is starting to sound like another Bush!

if Hilary debated obama on the issues and did not resort to divisive race baiting, race coding, personal and negative attacks against Obama, she would still lose however, she would at least have her dignity in tact

Gosh, what a whiner Obama is. Votes are votes, and Hillary has more at the moment. Give it a rest already before the country figures out that Obama’s delegates actually represent a much smaller number of votes (because his delegates came disproportianately from caucuses and urban areas which were granted extra delegates).

Updated:
Hillary and Bill are reaching for straws and trying to fool the people in NC and IN it wont work the American people are fed up with the Clintons, Bushs, and the old sneaky McCain Bush want-to-be politics as usual. The American people are too smart for that and will turn the page. The talk radio Conservatives shook Jocks want the American people to believe that their for Hillary but they want the fight between Hillary and Obama to continue until November to try and make McBush look good that want work either. The Clintons do a good job of trying to pull the wool over the American people eyes.
Obama’s state wins 30 lost 15, Delegate count 1715 +/-, Negatives are way down, Better nominee
Clinton’s state wins 15 lost 30, Delegate count 1585 +/-, Negatives way up. Not a good nominee.
Fund Raising Obama beats Clinton or McCain Expediently.
Registering new voters Obama beats Clinton or McCain.
Bring the country together Obama beats Clinton or McCain.
Overall, Obama beats Clinton or McCain.
Race against McCain, Obama better nominee.
Obama all the way!

FOR BKMC,
Since you want to advocate for Obama so bad, possibly you should actually learn about his positions! He wants to give AMNESTY for all illegals and make sure there is no border fence at all! At least Clinton wants border security! Maybe when one of them takes your job, and continues to drive down your wages even more, you won’t be so willing to jump on the Obama bull wagon!
As a lifelong Democrat, if Hillary does not get the nomination, every single Dem I know is voting for McCain! Better the enemy you know than the enemy socialist Obama!!!

Hillary Clinton is the most ridiculous person I’ve ever come accross. Obama was not even on the ballot in Michigan and unlike her he actually stayed out of Florida. I hope she doesn’t seriously think the American people are this stupid.

There are several people here confused about caucuses. They think that somehow it does not represent the people. This is far from true. In Iowa where I live, anyone can attend the caucuses if they register for the party. You can register at the time you attend. Both parties held their meetings at the same time so it was impossible to attend more than one meeting. Most people drove themselves to their community location, but both parties and all candidates made sure anyone who wanted to take part got a ride to and from the caucuses. At the precinct I attended here in Iowa, we had to wait in line for an hour to process everyone attending our meeting to confirm they were actually registered and lived in our precinct. Then it was at least another hour of five minute speeches for each candidate, discussion among people standing in your area of the room, and then finally a count. I did not hear anyone bashing any candidate or intimidation of voters. Nor did I hear people complaining about how they were treated. These people lived in your neighborhood and therefore it was a friendly environment. I am not sure why some people think this is somehow not fair.

Each side is going to have its favorites and special states. If you had a state filed with old white women, guess who would win that state, Hillary (Oh that state exist, it’s called Pennsylvania). Likewise, If you had a state filled with Black voters guess who would win that state (see North Carolina results two weeks from now). Hillary argues, “Why can’t he close the deal” I say to you, wait till the NC result and ask “Why can’t she get the Black vote”
AND SO GO THE STATES … DIVERSE
The question you have to ask, WHAT IS THE RESULTS OF THE CUMULATIVE VOTE AMONG ALL VOTING AMERICANS. THAT IS TRULEY YOUR MEASURE.
Right now it is mathematically impossible for Hillary to win this nomination(unless she uses the same fuzzy math calculator Bush has used)

Now listen all of you, let us for once behave like intellectuals and stop this myopic way of arguing. On the issue of Florida and Michigan all the contestants were called together and they were made to sign an undertaken that there will be no need for you guys to hold elections in those states cos they have violated the rules and whatever election that takes place in those states won’t hold. Obama, Clinton and Edwards, sign and sealed the deal.
Then Hillary was leading in popular votes, delegates counts e.t.c, and she didn’t see the need not to disenfranchise those people, after that, there were other contest and she won before North Carolina contest were Bill Clinton played the race card and Hillary lost and lost as well in super Tuesday before she now resulted back into Florida and Michigan . Foks be reasonable the world is watching us, i am not against sitting delegates from those states but they should be sited in a way that it will not affect either of candidates delegate counts positively, in other words, it should be fifty-fifty (50/50).

Well, let’s see. Obama has a whopping two years of federal experience, most of which he has simply spent posturing and campaigning for the presidency.
Obama’s foreign relations experience consists solely of a trip to Kenya to visit relatives (that’s “foreign relations,” right?).
Obama has a close, 25-year relationship with Jeremiah Wright and the hateful Black Nationalist movement. Then Obama pretends he didn’t know Wright is a bad guy.
Obama has a 17-year relationship with Chicago’s preeminant slum lord and scum bag Antoni Rezko, who helps Obama buy his house. Then Obama pretends he didn’t know Rezko is a bad guy.
Obama launches his state senate campaign with an event at the home of terrorist Bill Ayers, serves on a charity board with Ayers and gives speeches with Ayers. Then Obama pretends he barely knows the guy.
Obama promised us “change” in Illinois too, but has done nothing but cut deals to enrich himself and his wife while cashing our paychecks.
Obama cleverly flips off Clinton during a speech last week and smirks while the crowd cheers.
And the list goes on and on.
Gee, what’s not to like about Obama? Sure, he has experience, character and judgment to be the most powerful leader in the world during these especially challenging times. How tough can it be? LOL
Nobama. Not now. Not Ever.

I don’t think Hillary deserves to be a President if she can honestly say that Florida and Michigan delegates must be seated despite these States officials had ample warning about the consequences of deliberately voilating the DNC Covention Rules.
Hill is iconic to saying and going along with anything just to win. Bill did it with greater flare and got away with it. I will rather vote George bush again- if it was permissible. At least I know I have a President that sticks to his guns and not a cherry picker.

Up until two months ago I wouldn’t have considered voting non-democrat, but these freaking morons have lost me.
The democratic party needs leadership that can knock some heads around. They don’t have it. And these two privileged ivy-league “candidates” can’t do anything but bicker and point fingers at each other.
The republicans were bad for our country, but the worst part is that democrats can’t provide a better solution.
Pathetic.

Why is Hillary still in the race many ask. Well I think that Hillary knows very well what she is doing. “If I cannot win ’08 I will take ’12 from McCain”.
So I need to stay on, even if it is mathematically impossible to get the nomination without alienating half of the country. So let’s go to plan B. Weaken Obama while embittering the Hillarites to give McCain the election in November.
Lets see; Bush approval ratings due to Irak? In the tank. Bush approval ratings on the economy? In the tank, McCain ’12 approval ratings on the same? Ditto. And the winner is Hillary 2012

EVERYBODY WANTS TO STAY ON JERIMIAH WRIGHT ISSUE. WHAT THE H— WAS THAT? I’M SO SURPRISED AT THE BOTH OF THEM BUT ESPECIALLY CHARLIE GIBSON. I KNEW THAT GEORGE USE TO WORK FOR THE CLINTONS, SO I DIDN’T EXSPECT NOTHING LESS FROM HIM.. BUT FOR WHO BARACK ASSOCIATED WITH FOR A MOMENT,OR OCCASION OR TWENTY YEARS AS LONG AS HE HAS NOT COMMITTED ANY CRIME THEN WHY IS IT AN ISSUE? IF THAT’S THE CASE BEING IN THE POLITICAL RING YOUR
GONNA MEET ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE THAT
YOU MAY NOT SEE AGAIN FOR YEARS,MONTHS, ETC,,, WHY DO WE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE CARE ABOUT WHO KNOWS BARACK OR CLINTON OR MCCAIN FOR THAT MATTER …..GOSSIPING ABOUT THAT IS NOT GONNA BRING ME MONEY FOR GAS OR FOOD ON MY TABLE CAUSE ONE THING FOR SURE THEY GETTING PAID…..DIRTY LAUNDRY OR NOT.

Reaganfan
Four years is an eternity in political terms. We have seen many candidates flip on issues and ask forgiveness for previous sins. Just check ANY candidate positions in the primaries vs. general. “Oh I did not mean it then” And they get away with it.

As a black person, I guess I feel like some of you white folks. I will not give Hillary my vote because shee is simply untrusting!

FIGURES DON’T LIE BUT LIARS CAN FIGURE!
HILLARY HAS BEEN LYING FROM DAY ONE!!

Obama is a loser, and if the Dem leadership can’t see this, then they are just handing an easy victory to McCain, in their effort to appease the left wing socialists in this country! hillary is our only chance and without her on the ticket, I will be proud to pull that lever for McCain! Let the GOP ruin the country even further rather than let the left crazies take over and run it even further into the ground than the GOP has done! Hillary is the only chance we have to win for the Dems!

Geevill–I voted for Obama and I don’t regret it for a SECOND. I’d vote for him a thousand times if I could.
If you people don’t want wimps in the White House, maybe you should tell Hillary to stop crying. Sounds like a wimp to me.
For the love of GOD we have had 21 DEBATES already. I watched EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, except for the last one. I KNOW the candidate’s positions. I KNEW them a long time ago. The only thing anyone can talk about in debates to come is the stuff that doesn’t matter.
In regards to Michigan and Florida. Do you people SERIOUSLY think that Hillary TRULY cares about those people??? NO. If the situation was reversed, she’d be preaching about playing by the rules too. She doesn’t give a DAMN about those people. She just wants their votes.
Her campaign has constantly changed what’s important in the race. When Obama won Iowa, they said it’s a delegate race. When he won more states on Super Tuesday, they said that didn’t matter, because it’s a delegate race. When he came ahead in delegates, they cried that, no, this time it’s about who’s won BIGGER states. Then it was about who could win the states with the most electoral votes in November. THEN it was about the popular vote! They can’t even make up their mind. Whatever they can get ahead in is what the race should count on for them, so that’s why they want the votes of Michigan and Florida counted.
She claims that it’s more “democratic” to let the race continue and let everyone have their say. COUNT ON IT that if she had put this thing away on Super Tuesday like she was supposed to, she would have been calling for an end to this back in February.
Hillary only cares about what can get her a win. She changes her campaign slogan to whatever works best for the state that she’s in. She has connections to whatever state she’s in, “I lived here before,” “I registered voters in this state,” “My great uncle twice removed is buried in this state,” “I had a layover in your airport once.”
She “just forgot” about what she had PREVIOUSLY WRITTEN about her trip to Bosnia. She knew the truth for YEARS and then all of a sudden when it benefits her to lie, she “forgets.” Maybe when she gets to be president she’ll “forget” about what she promised all those people. 60% of people think she’s untrustworthy, so WHY ARE WE TRUSTING HER TO DO WHAT SHE PROMISES? It’s not like she has a good track record for telling the truth.
Obama may not be perfect, and there may be things that he says or did that you don’t like. But at least he’s not going to LIE about it. He wants to bring it out front and TALK about it, but stupid people in this country can’t handle the truth. They think you can just sweep everything under the rug and it’ll just go away. That’s how the problems in this country still exist.
WAKE UP, PEOPLE! The country doesn’t HAVE to be run this way. Vote for Obama and at least we can TRY to make things better. Vote for Hillary and you might as well be voting for John McCain, because nothing’s going to change.

If Clinton is going to change the rules in midstream, like GW does, then she should announce that none of the Caucuses counted therefore she can manipulate the numbers so she wins the nomination. So how is that any differentthan what Bush does? Doesn’t he manipulate the facts in his favor?
Are we going to have 4 more years of Bush if McCain or Clinton wins???
I think that it is disgusting the way she lies and manipulates everything. She is soooo dishonest!

I cannot believe you people call yourselves Americans when you want two states votes to be discounted. I blame the DNC for that; they should never have let that happened. HOWEVER, be that as it may it MOST CERTAINLY was NOT the people living in those states fault that they were put in this situation. EVERY AMERICAN has a RIGHT to VOTE and BE COUNTED. THe DNC made a mess of this and should never had allowed it to come to this. You just simply CANNOT discount 2 entire states votes. THIS IS AMERCIA! How would YOU feel if your vote wasn’t counted? It just isn’t right. I dont make this argument for or against either candidate, simply OUR RIGHT as AMERICANS to vote and have our votes counted!

I’ve got the jelly, where’s Hillary? She toast.

are you kidding me? only the clintons can be behind in an election and spin it in such a way that the person ahead of THEM has the “problem.” the question is NOT why obama can’t “close the deal.”
the question to hillary is “why don’t you even have a deal to close?” i know! because you’re LOSING!
please. keep these habitual liars out of the white house.

English is widely spoken and read around the world on the web. I wonder what people in other countries think about the citizens of this country when they read blogs like this. Maybe that all our officials are corrupt, but they are representative of many citizens. Our oggicials and citizens are more interested in themselves than making our country better.

Michiganders thank you for the disrespect, Obama! We’ll remember that in November especially since YOU chose to remove your name from our ballot. Bummer, Hillary gets the delegates!
As far as the party – make the Michigan Democratic Party pay a fine but don’t disrespect the voters of Michigan, they didn’t change the primary date, the party did!!

You people in florida and michigan have only yourselves to blame. why did you move it up anyway you should be outraged with your local governments especially the florida one run by republicans. Her wins in those states don’t mean anything. She agreed they wouldnt count now she needs them she is saying they should. What a disgusting woman and i can’t believe that you people fall for her tricks every single time. What about the people who didnt vote because the dnc told them that their vote wouldnt count. That is disenfrachising millions of voters right there. Just split it 50/ 50 and be done with it. And maybe you people in florida and michigan should have your stuff together next time and stop blaming obama.

On the Florida primary vote: I had a prior commitment for the night of the election. I was running late for work the morning of the election. 1) I don’t own house, so property tax vote didn’t affect me. 2) Primary vote doesn’t count anyway because State Democrats voted to change the election date in spite of the DNC rules. Therefore, I didn’t vote. You cannot change the rules now and say that the vote should count.

I wish some people and the media would quit harping about Michigan and Florida.
Neither the delegates nor the popular votes of Michigan will be counted!
Neither the delegates nor the popular votes of Florida will be counted!
It doesn’t matter if you think that’s good or if you think that’s bad. That decision was made and it won’t change. Get over it.
You get the feeling that when Hillary loses they will carry her away from the White House gate every day in a straight jacket as she throws ashtrays and shrieks and asks what those people are doing in her house. She may become the Delta Dawn of Pennsylvania Avenue.
Speaking of harping: Has anybody noticed that Mrs. McCain sometimes wears a “Hillary’s Harpy” pin (a harpy eagle on a pearl orb)? Hmm, I wonder. . . Maybe that’s why she doesn’t seem to want to give her hubby any campaign fund money.
This is undoubtedly the silliest time in the history of American politics. I even find myself treating a run for the President of the United States as though it was some sort of American Idol episode. Seriously, aren’t some of the others who ran starting to look pretty good right now?
Try to laugh it off and go back to your jobs—if you are lucky enough to still have one after the last three administrations have sold us out to globalism.
Regards, The Old Prospector.

I see that the only one not blamed yet for the situation in MI and FL is the Pope.
Yet the real culprits are seldom mentioned, although we all know who they are: The state democratic party leaders that decided to move up their primary in spite of party rules (disclaimer: whether the current primary rules are fair is another days discussion).
How come they are still in the party having broken the rules? And what on earth made them go ahead with that ill conceived decision? It is easy to think that they just wanted to have a saying in the primaries and not let those guys in IA and NH decide for them. Or were they trying to create momentum for Hillary in two large states where the party leaders are strong Hillary supporters? If you do not believe in momentum, just ask Rudy.

This country needs Hillary. We need another millionaire president who disregards the rules, tells bold-faced lies, plays dirty, and pretends to care about the middle class. Go Hillary!

What to do, what to do about FL and MI votes??? Here’s a thought: how about those of you who are so self-centered you believe the FL and MI voters should be disenfranchised, i.e., not have their votes count, have to relinquish YOUR voting privilege as well. Then those of us who truly believe in democracy for ALL citizens of this country will rightfully be the ones deciding this contest. What? Don’t want YOUR vote to be thrown out? Don’t want to be told YOU don’t count? Don’t like to be treated the way you treat others? And, please, don’t bother boring me with further convoluted excuses claiming you really are nice people who believe in democracy, but, well…it’s just that they “broke the rules” (!)

To chichi:
My thoughts exactly. Astounding how Obama partisans from other states get in a lather about their votes “not counting” if the final nomination is left up to the Super Delegates, but they give a damn about MI & FL.

hillary supporters will
make good chat room lawyers, they can justify anything, these are the same people clogging up traffic courts trying to beat a radar trap

if we cant uphold simple election rules why are we in the middle east trying to impose democracy , sanction and international rules and laws.. what a bunch of deceptive hypocrites.. reject that bareface lying hilary and her gang of decievers.. vote obama!!!

hey guys, just stop watching abc and tell a friend. i no longer watch

Do anything, Say anything, Act anyway to win right!!! My god Hillary what next.

Hey, wait a minute. Why can’t you be accurate? It was NOT a double digit loss.

What is absurd is how Obama partisans make a fetish of his current “relative lead” among delegates.
There is nothing sacred about Obama’s relative lead in the delegate count. There would be, if it took him over the 2,025 delegate mark, but it has not.
In any event, his lead doesn’t reflect the “will of the people”, it only reflects the will of those voters whose votes are being counted.
Since he can’t get past the 2,025 delegate mark, then according to the rules, he has LOST the lock on a nomination just as soundly as Hillary has. They’ve BOTH lost.
This means it up to the Super Delegates to decide, weighing whatever factors they think are relevant.
In this case, I think the popular vote is actually more meaningful then Obama’s ARTIFICIAL lead. I also think to suggest otherwise is somehow unamerican.

I have been waiting patiently for an Obama partisan to explain why the POPULAR VOTE (including the popular vote as reflected in the MI + FL voter turnouts) should not be among the DECISIVE factors the Super Delegates weigh in determining who should get the party nomination.
Nothing in the DNC rules says that the candidate with the relative lead in delegates wins. The rules say the canddidate with 2,025 delegates wins. So, all this talk of Obama’s relative lead in delegates is a red herring.
Forget the MI + FL DELEGATES, they have been rightly disqualified. Bringing them up again is a red herring.
I am saying that since neither candidate has locked up the nomination, the popular vote is at least as importnat as the relative delegate counts. Maybe the popular vote should even be decisive!
Please, someone convince me otherwise. I don’t think you have an argument.;-)

9.28% is not a double digit. In fact it is closer to 9% than 10%.

Perfect commets ‘DaneNM’ and ‘New Jersey Dude’!
Why is everyone forgetting HRC was already in the White House (twice) and could not get her “Health Care” program started? What is she going to do this time (if she can even make it that far) bully the congress, cry, stamp her feet until she gets her way?
FL and MI thought they were better then the rest of the country and could defy the DNC party rules. They were fully aware of the consequences. What is wrong with the officals in FL that they feel thier state can continue to mess up the presidental elections? We would love to have the voters of these states be counted but the elected officals suddenly can’t locate the money for an honest re-election. If the voters of FL and MI want to throw thier anger at anyone they should point it towards their officals who made the arrogant decision to hold thier elections early. It was not Obama rules.
Go OBAMA! Change this country for the better and restore our dignity from a lying adulterous president(Clinton, who was impeeched and refused to leave office)and the other self serving president (Bush, who took our country into Iraq to finish the job his father could not by bringing down Sadam).

What an elitist rersponse. He so carelessly tosses aside the votes in Florida as though they dont matter. Is that what he will do if elected president, toss aside the voices of Americans who do not side with him?

SuziQ: You are laboring under a common misconception. The agreement signed by the candidates regarding Florida and Michigan stated only that the candidates would not campaign or participate in the primaries. The agreement said nothing about counting the votes or the delegates. It is the DNC which refuses to count the delegates; and it is Obama who has stood in the way of a revote so that the voters in those states could have their voices heard.

Furthermore, I’m in the Northwest, where our voices are almost never heard in the primaries….because those are the rules. So I don’t have endless sympathy for Florida and Michigan on that point. I think those voters should complain to their party leaders.

Excellent post Independent! Obama has been very smart in understanding the flawed primary system and using it’s pecularities to his advantage. If he wins the nomination I believe that he may very well win the popular vote and lose the election because unlike the primaries the general election is winner take all. I like him though and I think he’d make an excellent VP candidate.

Sarah,
Hillary says she’s a Christian – and she definitely isn’t shy about what she thinks is right and wrong and has no qualms about makes laws to enforce this.
And what makes you think she doesn’t mind Bill sleeping around? Are you saying she puts on an illusion of a marriage so she can get elected?

This is great keep it going until Denver. Many of my Democrat friends are jumping ship to John McCain. I love it!
McCain 08

It turns out that Hillary Clinton
won the Pennsylvania primary by
only 9 percent!
What a surprise the MSM lied!
So since Clinton needed to win by
double digits in PA and since Obama
still leads in delegates by 140 and in the popular vote by 500,000 and in states won, she should withdraw now!
Game over, Go Home!

Karela,
You are right. If the tables were turned Hillary would be throwing the kitchen sick at Obama if he tried to get the votes in MI and FL to count.
What is interesting is that Obama has, with some luck, outsmarted Hillary (aka The Smartest Woman in the World). He has run a steady campaign without a lot of internal drama and within budget. Very very smart – especially for a rookie.

Here’s my last word:
I am a life-long Democrat – was thrilled to shake the hand of George McGovern as a young boy, voted for Carter in my first national election, voted for Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry. I am a party loyalist who would vote for Obama if I felt he was the legitimate nominee. But here’s the rub. As things stand, I don’t think he is. He used every trick in the book to prevent a second primary from being held in MI, a primary he thought would go against him. Unless both will of MI and FL voters is somehow relected in the final outcome. I will not vote for Obama in the general election. I am that angry at Obama’s manipulation of the party rules.

John F,
I’m not telling you Obama is noble…but he is smart.
As I said before, being from the northwest, where our primaries almost never affect who ends up as the nominee, I have a jaded view of your complaints. I’d just have to say – welcome to our world – and – toughen up! Obama is dong what anyone would i.e. playing to win. If you think politics is fair then you really need to look more closely. Hillary would mow you down in a second if she thought you were in your way.

nor Obama nor Hillary Clinton will reach the 2025 delegates needed to win, there is no rule that says that the candidate with more delegates wins the nomination unless they reach 2025. It is not a math dilemma it is a dilemma about who can win the general election. Obama is unelectable. Senator Clinton can defeat McCain.

How can people support Obama? he lies about being a civil rights lawyer (he only worked one case), He lies about not listening to the “snippets of hate” form Rev Wright, he lies about how much money he received from Rezko, he lied about when and where his PARENTS met, he accused his dead grandmother of typical white racist, he looks down on small town people clling them bitter just because they “don’t” get him, he is affraid to debate. He is unelectable.

How can Obama be the President? He does not even want to count our vote. The votes from FL and MI are from real people. Does Obama look down on us the way he does on “small town people”? He talks about how African Americans did not have the right to vote, and justified Wright’s hate sermons. But he does not want to count our people, the vote by real people! Obama is full of self contradiction. We cannot trust him.

Fine Mr. Obama, that’s a great message to send to the people of Michigan and Florida, you don’t need them. Well, what about during the general election? Do you think you can waltz into those states and then try to sell them after you get nominated? You are more stupid than I even realized, to think you can dis the very people you are going to need to get elected. These two states have alot of electoral votes during the GE and you just want to throw them away, GOOD THINKING! This is just an example of how flawed and inexperienced your thinking is on political strategy.

I am not surprised by the assertion that HRC is in the lead in popular votes. It is yet another symptom of a disease since diagnosed as the “bosnia fantasy”. I am all for a revote in Florida and Michigan, but HRC’s insistence on counting the exisiting results does not make sense, and only indicates a heightened sense of desperation. I personally know at least five persons in Michigan who wanted to vote for Obama but could not as his name was not there! Doesn’t counting the results of the “primary” amount to disenfranching these voters? As for Florida, yes neither HRC nor Obama campaigned. But does it make it a level playing field? The whole idea of the primary process is to allow candidates to introduce themselves to the voters throgh campaigning. HRC was a household name and needed no introduction. But circa the primary time, how many voters were asking: Obama who?

Michigan and Florida shouldnt be seated bc they broke the rules and rules are rules. Hillary ur just too desperate and niveve to realize u wont win the nomination in August. So please do all of us a favor and get out while u still can.
P.S Obama is going to win both in North Carolina and Indiana!!! OBAMA’08

Hillary only won by 9% in PA thats only a single digit lead. so she didnt get what she wanted. END THIS DRAMA, VOTE FOR OBAMA!!

To Dan:
What’s your point? The first primary was flawed, even Hillary acknowledged that.
The problem could have been solved by holding a second primary; Hillary said she willing, Obama blocked it.
Under these circumstances, Hillary is left to insist that the delegates from the first primary should somehow be recognized, but Obama put her in that position by refusing to hold a second primary.
Obama is the villain at this stage.

hilary not obama was a republican until she met bill

To SuzieQ and all the rest of you totalitarians who would throw MI & FL voters out of the process.
As a Michigan Dem, I am not asking for anyone’s sympathy. I think we are tough enough. ;-)
Forgive me, but I think you are confused when you compare the situation of NW states to the current situation of MI and FL votesr.
The votes of NW states don’t count, because the nomination is usually sewed up before these states have a chance to vote.
The votes of MI and FL are being thrown out by Obama, because the nomination HAS NOT BEEN DECIDED, and allowing a REVOTE in MI or seating the FL delegates could easily reverse his lead.
That is a pretty big difference!
CONCLUSION: by blocking a REVOTE in MI and by refusing to allow FL delegates to be seated (he was on the ballot in FL), Obama and Obama alone is responsible for the durrent crisis.
In effect, he is trying to steal the Democratic nomination.
He isn’t a clever strategist, so much as he is a shameless thief.

To JustConsider:
Once again, an Obama partisan misses the point. Who is it that is “display [ing] either a complete lack of reasoning skills or are so biased for their candidate that they’ve lost objectivity.”
Obama screwed MI voters by denying us a chance at a revote, not by refusing to seat delegates from the first, flawed primary. Of course the delegate count in the first primary is flawed. That is obvious to any sane person, and is certainly obvious to MI democrats.
MI democrats are not upset because these delegates aren’t being seated. We are upset because Obama (not Hillary) refused to hold a second primary.
So, quit bringing up this red herring of the first primary. IT IS NOT THE POINT. The point is Obama’s refusal to allow a REVOTE!
Hillary is forced to argue the initial delegate count be recognized. This is her only, third-best option.
But that is Obama’s fault. Hillary was willing to let the chips fall where they may – hold a revote and let the best candidate win. Obama, on the other hand, wanted to lock in his lead by shutting out MI altogether.

to JW:
It’s easy to say it was blocked by OBama but unless you were involved directly in the meetings you have no idea what the details of the meetings were or what concessions were demanded by these groups. I don’t think you were personally involved in the meetings. Why continue to echo the press on its sound bites? For some reason the leadership of the Democratic Party has sided with Obama. There’s probably more under the covers than you know.

Dan…………… you are wrong the Democratic party in Florida and the Democratic voters in Florida DID NOT violate the rules it was the Republican legislator, look it up. The DNC know this too they just didn’t want to bend to the GOP and in the process have screwed their own primary. – Try facts not news bites.
True Democrats should be angry that people were denied their right to vote the basis of the party being equal for all and recognising all. Instead all people seem to care about is if it helps or hinders their candidate.
You want to dismiss us, you want to say we broke rules, you want to sya get over it – FINE.
Friendly reminder. We are 2 of the biggest swing states and in 2004 the margins were FL: Bush +400,000 and MI: Kerry + 160,000.
Voters who weren’t annoyed with their party or other voters who told us we should “get over it”. It will come back and bite you on the butt. 1 in 15 MI voters will easily stay home or vote elsewhere. AS for Fl: 1 in 9.
Go ahead laugh at us and ignore us.

Jason
In 2004 700,000 voted in the Florida primary. In 2008 857,000 voted for Clinton alone.
In 2004 150,000 voted in the Michigan primary. In 2008 250,000 voted uncommitted.
You don’t think people felt strongly and wanted to send a message to be heard ??

I don’t want to hand an election to either candidate. I believe the constitution means the rights of all Americans to have a say in the Democratic process.
I don’t just appreciate the will of the people, I believe in it. I don’t want it settled by Superdelegates under these circumstances.
I would accept them settling it if the all states had voted and been counted and it was neck in neck. Not like this with half measures, innuendo and accusations hanging over the nominee.
I understand when it is tight nominees need to weigh up things like key states etc.
For example in the 2004 Presidential election, 11 states accounted for over 50% of all EC votes. Now Obama has/will win 3 of these by the time the primary is over, Clinton 8 of these.
Currents poll match ups show Obama taking 4 of these in November and Clinton 6 maybe even 8, two are too close to call.
Now I am not touting for Clinton and saying because of this she should get the nod. I am just saying many factors can play into who or why a superdelegate comes into play and they choose who they do. I also know polls vary and alot can change between now and November for all candidates.
I am just staying open to everything and keeping my eye on the prize and knowing the Presidency is bigger the emotion going around right now. Emotion is good but it is head and heart they can’t decide exclusive of each other.

saif1028, Unfortunately, I believe you are wrong. The Clintons are driving a wedge into the Democratic party that will be irreparable. Not only that they are driving away Independent voters. So, while I am sure if she loses she will make up with Obama she cannot put the genie back in the bottle. This division will not go away easily..

If the remaining democratic primary is about the issues it should continue however, it’s no longer about the issues its about selling newspapers, ratings, and Hillary hell bent on blooding Obama, hoping he’s unelectable so she can get on her high horse and say to the democratic party. I told u so. It’s mathematically over for Hillary and if the super delegates overturn the people’s choice there will be a revolt, its time for the super delegates to step in and stop this carnage, if Hillary was not a Clinton, they would have. Quit clinging to the thrown, we live in a democracy not a monarchy

all this talk about obama being unelectable, good luck to hillary winning the presidency with 7% of the black vote, without the 10 thousand of new registered voters for obama, and without those who think she’s a pathological liar who’s not fit to lead

jwf. the real question is if abama was allowed to campaign in florida and michigan would he still be ahead in the popular votes and delegates. the answer is.. yes he would!! even with hilary’s 20 years of free press, and her husband’s legacy , obama would have campaigned, people would have gotten to know him and he would have been further ahead in popular votes and delegates

Wake up Clinton fans counting votes ha ha ha stop and think Obama has won 13 caucaus states each delegate rep a number of votes in a given area so turn the delegates from caucaus states into
people votes and Obama leads Clinton
by about 2 million votes and sory but that’s the way super delegates will look at it SORY JUST SOME PLANE FACTS
OH BY THE WAY IM FROM FL AND WE DID
GO TO THE POLLS FOR TAX PURPOSE’S AND
IT MENT ABOUT $400.00 PER HOUSEHOLD IN THE HOMESTEAD ACT HE HE NOW WHY DID WE VOTE

ric, i hope u were as equally upset when the clintons committed purjury and acts of adultery in the highest office of the land