A Clinton Hurricane Hits Outside the DNC Hearing Room

The DNC Stripped FL of 100% of pledged and un-pledged delegates after our REPUBLICAN colleagues moved the Primary date up too soon. It’s wrong to punish us for that which we could not control. If we don’t get 100% seating with full votes, the DNC better pay for a revote.
That or I, for one, will urge all Dems I know to MAKE their voice heard, with either low turnout or a vote for McCain. How do you like dem apples?

im watching the RBC and the Clinton people are acting like petulent children. Hillary signed a pledge and did a radio interview agreeing that Michigan would not count. Whats the point of MI and FL primaries if theres no campaigning there? you might as well just take polls if thats the way things are going and forget meeting voters whatsoever.
Every CLinton speaker is appealing to emotion, and Obamas are appealing to logic. Its clear Clinton kept her name on in MI as only strategy and insurance, its low class and it makes me want to puke.

If Florida democrats can’t manage their chads, why should they be allowed to vote anyway.

Eddie
Check it out. Those are not the rules!

Both Mi and Fl have regular primaries scheduled for around Aug. 5. Yet the DNC is opposed to a revote in both states.
Why not let voters revote then, with only Clinton and Obama on the ballot.
Get a true and totally fair decision from the voters, settle once and for all.
Costs neither state additional money. Why will the DNC not agree?

Hillary supporters are 100% in favor of punishing Obama for following the rules.
This circus reminds me of playing board games with my sister, where i’m winning, and then she turns the table over saying “you cheated! i win i win i win” with her fingers in her ears.
if the DNC backs down like babies as it seems they may, whats going to stop any other state from moving their primaries up in 2012?

This is a cirus with Hilly in the middle ring….Can’t have her own way ,crying.She signed the papers as well as the other and now she is LOOSING rules have to be changed for she DESERVES this she said so.Waited 8 year and Billy promised her this and now he can’t produce….If I was on this board NOTHING would count and the states could take it up with the people from their state who screwed this in the first place….

The bottom line is Hillary is not interested in anything except what can be done in her best interest.

Gion
The party has abandoned us!

As far as I’m concerned, the rules are rules. People knew these primaries weren’t going to matter – that’s why alot of people stayed home.
I wound up turning off the rules meeting, because of the circus it is turning into. I’ve seen pep rallies with more decorum.
I think the Democratic Party should change it’s logo to the *back* side of that donkey.

Don’t forget to count the caucus votes as well.
We wouldn’t want to disenfranchise anyone.

All I can say is that Ikes (Sp) is not getting what he wants and there seems to be some backlash on the committee for his stance, he is not well received.
Looks like Fl gets full representation at 1/2 vote.
MI is a tough one Full representation at 1/2 vote, but what to do with the uncommitted?

In the name of handing the nomination to Barack Obama, the Democratic Party has abandoned the moral high ground and disenfranchised voters.
Long before he was born, people marched and died for the vote and he is now the one denying it. What a proud day this would be for Martin Luther King, Jr., don’t you agree? Is this the way he would expect things to work out? I doubt it.

Any way you slice it, Obama lost Mi and Fl.
Losers don’t get to offer compromises.

Vickie way to contribute as another Clinton talking head.

Why is this decision up to the Obama campaign? That is how this sounds….

You all better wake up to the fact, that she is wanted NOW AND FOREVER.
Should read she is not wanted NOW or EVER!

Take it to the convention, Hillary. It’s your right and you have 50% of the Democratic Party behind you!
Rise, Hillary, Rise!’08
A Proud, Black, Hillary Supporter
(It ain’t over until the lady in the pantsuit says so!)

Donna Brazille has lost her mind and that is one huge bag she packs around -What does she have in that thing anyway? I believe that the case was made that the voters will in both states be seated as voted 100%. IF that doesn’t happen as it is the only fair and democratic way to award justice to the voters. Well then say hello to McCain because that guy most of you think should be the nominee is not playing fairly or by the rules and he will be punished for it by the voters in November if the media and Obama cheaters get their way to cut the voters wills in half. As if the voters are not paying attention. Say good-bye Democrats to all your gains if Obama is awarded the win and he wasn’t even playing fairly. He made the mistakes he should pay for them.

Stephanie Tubbs Jones is a great woman. She fights for whats’s right. With Hillary as President, Stephanie would be a great VP. You go girls. We will not be silenced.

Why did the DNC allow Obama to refuse to agree to a revote? It should not have been up to him. Because a revote would have been the fair way to resolve this in a way the benefited the Dems. Tired of that campaign preverting the will of the people. Just had 8 years of it. He would not have the popular vote unless he cheated his way through this process as he has making false claims against Clinton.

And, they want to get Edwards et all to delegate their votes? wink wink to Obama?
Would that be those Edwards supporters who will vote for Macain over Obama that he will award for Obama? What a joke.

Liveblogging the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting (MULTIPLE UPDATES)

CSPANs broadcasting it live both on TV and on their website. Looks like the DNC elites are behind this morning as no one is seated at this point and its 9:30. Perhaps they are a little behind because their dinner engagement went on unti…

It was not the voters choice to change the dates, but a few lawmakers in those states. Don’t penalize the innocent. All states should have a say in the nomination process. Grant a pardon to Florida and Michigan and then count all votes.

From the way Mr. Levin explained it, it sounds as if New Hampshire was the one who messed up the primary order rotation and held their primary out of turn (They were supposed to go third and instead held onto their traditional second).
Why are Michigan and Florida the only ones being punished?

“What would happen if Obama won those two states” Would he not count them?
I’M STILL LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER PLEASE.
BE HONEST.

MSNBC rocks!!!! Now if they would only go HD. That’s high def for some of you other supporters that can’t afford that type of thing.

Obama may win the nomination with his bag of dirty tricks and race-baiting but you can take it to the bank, he WILL LOSE the general election.
We see him for what he is: shallow, incompetent, empty and a liar.

Anybody know why the good people of Montana or S. Dakota, if they read a paper or watch the news, would ever vote for BO on Tues? Are they Republicans trying to nominate the easiest candidate for McCain to beat, are they big time lefty liberals…what would ever make them want to put him ahead in the polls? Can someone tell me since these are Red states….what Dems there would want BO over Hillary?

Would Obama not count MI and FL if he had won them???
Anyone care to give a straight answer and not some poppcock list of historical lies Brian..
A real answer to the question only.
Would Obama not count MI and FL if he had won them???
Straight one line answer please.
Obama us citizen supporters please answer the question.
Would Obama not count MI and FL if he had won them???

Lou — as a Texan who voted for Sen. Clinton in the primary.
We lost.
I want a President Obama — not a President McCain.

Thank you!!! The most educated and positive thing said from the other supporters. Just great.

Would Obama not count MI and FL if he had won them???
Your silence is very telling.
I guess we can all see what the double standard here.
If obama won the two states in question, he would demand all the votes counted for him and it would have been done long ago and he would have been the nominee..capiche???
ADMIT IT!!!!!!!!!!
NO NO NO
NO DOUBLE STANDARDS ALLOWED
HILLARY WON LONG AGO
NOW COUNT THE VOTES

I love Lannie Davis. How many high profile Hillary supporters will go McCain in Nov?
Michelle (who has gone underground lately with her angry mouth), had said early on she “didn’t know” if she could vote Hillary, Geraldine Ferraro has said “she doesn’t know if she can vote Obama”. Lot’s of Dems WHO WILL NOT SUPPORT THE OTHER CANDIDATE….TROUBLE IN NOV., NO MATTER WHAT. THE PARTY WILL NOT ALL JOIN HANDS AND “HEAL”.
If McCain plays his cards right it’s all his.
HILLARY OR McCAIN ’08

Um…ok Debra. You just put most of the people you typed would vote for Obama in a pretty negative bucket. I do believe McCain just denounced a couple of pastors for negative statement, but you typed earlier you would switch party lines. Just proves everything I have typed. I’m not a gambler I READ. I make my choices for doing that. When it is widely known that most college age students are voting for Obama and you typed ignorant youth… Again, you are laughable at best. I give up, stew in your own hatred and fear I have things to do and progressive people of all types that I need to visit today. I think I’ll visit some of those “ignorant youths”, and “blacks” as you put it, and make sure the are Baracking the vote!!! They are educated enough to know this country doesn’t need 4 more years of Bush.

Re:MI GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT
Senator Obama was on the ballot,but he CHOSE to remove his name. The DNC rules DO NOT require that. Secondly,Senator Clinton WAS NOT the only candidate on the ballot; that ITS FALSE. While Sen. Obama,Edwards, & Richardson did remove their name, Senator Dodd, Kucinich, Biden, and I believe Gravel kept their name.
Re: Florida & DNC RULES
Senator Obama’s supporters keep talking about the rules, but if the DCN was to enforce the RULES, then Senator Obama would have to be stripped of all his votes and delegates because he VIOLATED the rules. He campaigned in FL by spending about 1M in TV ads. and held a press confrence which according to the RULES, is a violation. These are facts not just words;it was reported on the news and documented in various newspapers. In addition, check the Center for Responsive Politics and stop the nonsense.

Dan Jr.
That’s simply ludicrous.

Gio,
The problem here is that you want to use a Soviet style result and claim it was fair.

Once upon a time, I might have cast my November vote for Obama, had he received the dem. nomination even though I caucused for Hillary Clinton in our “caucus” state.
But something happened or rather many things happened. Rev. Wright, Rezko, Ayers, “dirty campaigning” while trying to claim the “high road of unity and change,”
key advisers of Obama calling Clinton and her husband names, supporters of Obama calling Clinton supporter vile names, and now trying to disenfranchise the voters of Michigan and Florida.
Call me “naive” but I was under the impression that we live in a democracy and that every vote counts. Moreover I until recently thought that the “democratic” party was the party that adhered to this basic principle. Alas I seem to be sadly mistaken. Never did I as a loyal and faithful democrat think I would live to see the day where we as a party would be debating on giving “pre-sumptive votes” to a candidate or “exit polls” would be the guide to how to calculate which candidate gets “x” number of delegates when there was clearly an election and voters cast their votes. In Michigan Obama took his name off the ballot clearly for “political strategy.” As Gov. Blanchard said it was a “flawed political strategy, not a flawed primary” in Michigan.
In Florida, Obama’s name was on the ballot. Moreover, his name was not only a “household word” but in some people’s minds his name was almost synonymous with “that of a messiah.” Hillary Clinton did not campaign in Florida but Obama’s campaign did run ads on cable news outlets prior to the Florida primary. The voters spoke. Hillary Clinton carried a solid majority of the votes. Nothing difficult about the “math” here. Award the delegates based on the votes cast by the dem. primary voters in Florida.
Once upon a time I used to admire Donna Brazille. But when she pretends to be “uncommitted” and then calls one candidate and her supporters “cheaters” under the guise of a story – “things my mother taught me”- the last shred of respect I once had for Donna has all but evaporated.
For me, this is no longer about Obama or Clinton, it’s about the principles that this country was founded upon. If my party – the democratic party – is unwilling to count the votes from these two states as cast, then I am no longer a member of this party.

Cathy – Edit.
Thanks for stopping by, careful on your way out!

Kathy from KS
I live in PA. If I show up at the polls before the designated voting day according to the rules or the law…
…my early vote won’t count.

Why not count the delegates as 3/5ths of a vote. There’s historical precedent for that. Seriously, if I can use that word about the late night monologue joke the Dems have become, stuff like this is why I became an Independant after 44 years as a Democrat. Dem leadership simply doesn’t know what it is doing.

I just want to point out something that I thought everyone knew by now.
The Constitution has nothing to say about the parties’ primary process for choosing its nominee. They can eliminate all the states with an “I” in them if they want to, they can have an arm wrestling contest if they want to. There isn’t a Constitutional problem with that. Why do you think the federal courts in Florida keep throwing out the challenges? Hillary Clinton is a smart woman and she knows this perfectly well. She knows very well that Florida is not Zimbabwe. She knows very well that the votes in Fl. and Mi. were not supposed to count, and she signed the pledge that they wouldn’t count, and publicly stated that they wouldn’t count. She didn’t think they would matter because she didn’t have a game plan for Feb. 6 and beyond. This is completely transparent. This woman is arguing, with a straight face, that Obama should get 0 delegates from Michigan, in which his name was not on the ballot. Vladimir Putin could not make that argument with a straight face. Their plan for Florida is to have all of the votes count as they were voted. Exactly how this represents a “compromise”, they do not explain.
Now that Fl. and Mi. did their dumb thing, and got smacked down, we have to find some kind of way to resolve this without taking it to the convention. Everyone wants their delegates to be seated, and the issue is to how. I feel sure the committee will come up with something as equitable as can be allowed under the circumstances. The question is whether a campaign, which has brought no indication of compromise to anything thus far, will take this to the convention and shatter any hopes of our winning this election. I wish I could say I had faith in Hillary Clinton. In January of this year, I had faith in Hillary Clinton.

@Thomas
Is that all I can offer up? Regarding what? The evolution of my feelings for Hillary from positive and supportive to, well, what they are now? My opinion of her legal arguments? My opinion of the wisdom of her Quixotic quest for the nomination? No, it certainly isn’t, but I have to have dinner and I assume others have other things to do, too. As they say in the Princess Bride: “is too much. I sum up.”

Gio
Yeah yeah yeah — always somebody else’s fault.

You miss the point Gion. This isn’t holding our breaths and throwing temper tantrums. This is fighting for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party. This isn’t just about Obama and Clinton anymore. This is about standing up for what is right, and what we see is going wrong with the Democratic Party. There are two wings now, the moderates/centrists represented by Clinton, and the Obama wing which is more extreme liberal. We are fighting to pull the party more to the center, where most of us live. This is about where we belong in the party, or where we don’t or even if we have a home with this party anymore. And the consensus is if Obama wins, the party has moved to far left for us. We are the tranditional base, which according to Donna Brazille, isn’t needed or wanted anymore, because Obama’s vision of the new party is the upper class wealthy, the young, and the African Americans. We’ve been called old dinosaurs, bitter white, gun toting racists, old white women, or blue collar workers, or lunch bucket Democrats, or Reagan Democrats, we’ve been labeled so many different ways it’s hard to keep track of all of them. We’ve been invited to leave the party, just as you did, and by God, when you are no longer valued, wanted, or listened too or seen, that is exactly what you do. So yes, we will leave this election, and hopefully the Democrats will realize that abandoning the base was not a smart move and hopefully place value on this voting block the next time around. Obama represents everything we reject, and he doesn’t represent us. How could he when he doesn’t even hear us? Dean, Brazille, Pelosi, and Obama are abandoning the party of FDR for Obama’s new vision. We won’t. We’ll see if the party continued to move in this direction after November. If they do, we will either find a new party or vote Republican as long as they also continue to move towards the center.

Let’s see if I can figure this out…
Ignoring Voters = Democrats
Super delegates = Politburo
Seems to me that the party screaming about disenfranchising voters doesn’t really have a problem doing just that… And,for what it’s worth, your vote is worth only 1/10,000th of a party insider anyway.
Go Democrats! We can see that you’re really interested in protecting out liberty!!
BTW: Maxine Waters – What’s all the fuss over “We’re going to a, a, a, a, take over the oil companies” anyway. We all know that if you want a job done right you need the gvmt to do it.

Re:Florida
Timbo, no state party chair has the authority or jurisdiction to grant permission for ads. ESPECIALLY in another state. Get a copy of the DNC rules. That was his campaign initial claim, but it was refuted a long time ago. Get the facts.

BO just gets closer to an eventual loss in November.
He was given votes he did not earn.

I think the Obama followers who are happy about this might want to think again.
There will be backlash.

Today, we watched the beginning of the demise of the Democratic Party. They sealed their fate and Clinton supporters all over the country will be campaigning and voting for McCain in the Fall.

WTF is wrong with the DNC???????
Have they lost their minds???????????
A group of millionaires decides that the average voter doesn’t count??
FU!!!!!!!!!!!!
Donna Brazille can kiss my ass and her rules and her mama too! I guess her mama aint Rosa Parks! Damn HER for not following the rules right Donna?
The democrats make me sick! After 2000 they never learned!
DNC+Obama = Bush the III

Soetoro No,
I’m not blaming anyone else, but rules are rules.
Dave, I know the truth hurts, but the rules are quite clear.
No ads, press confrences etc.- Senator Obama spent about 1M in TV ads and held a press conference(Center for Responsive Politics). The penalty according to the rules 0 votes & delegates.
IW, NH & SC MOVED the date W/O the approval of the DNC, but got a waiver after the fact.
Rules are rules.

The DNC can count me out.
Oh, that’s right.
They already did.

Many of these people who are expressing outrage are the same people who have already made it plain that they would not vote for Senator Obama not matter what.
So now that another Avenue of fantasy has been closed to them they once again erupt in anger.
I cannot believe that anyone would vote for McCain who is not an idiot. The guy really doesn’t seem to have a clue. He does not have a firm grasp on what is going on here or overseas and he has much too much of an anger problem to be put in charge of a bunch of nukes.
I think many of the people posting here are very angry. But they do not appear to be stupid. And as I said before, I don’t think you can make a case for voting for McCain unless you are a really dumb idiot.

By the way, FoodforThought, your comment clearly shows that Hillary Clinton’ supporters, like you, like her, are more interested in your own personal agendas rather than unifying the party to threaten to vote for a Republican instead of a Democratic nominee. Polls last week showed that between 26 and 36 percent of your supporters said they would vote for McCain if Obama got the nomination, but only between 10 and 18 percent of Obama supporters said they would shun Clinton. It goes to show that Obama supporters are more interested in unifying the party than you guys are–oh!, what a surprise!!!! Hey, do what you gotta do.

Mary, winning overall when you are the ONLY candidate, is that a victory??? And why did she leave her name on the ballot anyway, when she agreed with everyone else not to campaign there? Just in case???

If I walked into a bank and demanded money that was not in my account or a legal loan, I would be considered a criminal. If a politican demands votes/delegates when his name is not on the ballot, I would call that a stolen election. Senator Obama should be ashamed.

Posted by: tired | May 31, 2008 9:42:59 PM
sorry, not about just unity…we do not blindly vote for whom ever the “party” thinks is okay. we DO NOT think bho is okay. we do not approve of his associations/friends/wife/etc. unity is one thing, voting for someone you do not approve of is another. given bho or mccain, i will vote for the patriot who loves the country and calls himself an american.

Oh, OK Mary, I get it now!!. Hillary wanting to disrupt the process by calling a committee meeting to see if she can change the rules for her benefit is OK. But Obama getting delegates although he wasn’t on the ballot is a no-no?, right?
So it depends on who benefits from the rule-breaking! Silly me for not understanding this sooner!!
Rules are rulse. Your words. Obama wasn’t complaining about Michigan or Florida, no one was but Hillary and Hillarites (when she started losing). If she had just left things alone, and followed your advice (rules are rules), Obama would not have delegates now that you think he shouldn’t have!! Hillary, in her self-serving, Me Me Me-ness, along with her desperation, fails to see the big picture and gave Obama just what he didn’t ask for but will only help him–more delegates!!
I imagine that Obama supporters would like to thank Hillary and encourage her to keep up the good work!

No rules shall be above our Constitution, the highest law of our land. Neither shall any delegates, superdelegates or political affiliations or surogates be above one another in terms of voting rights or any other rights.
ALL PERSONS ARE CREATED EQUAL. Floridians and Michiganers shall be honored with full equal rights and privileges guaranteed by the same Constitution they support and defend. Half vote would be an insult, not only to Florida and Michigan, but to democracy everywhere around the world. Every vote should be equally honored, and any less than equal will not fly.
The DNC’s Rules & Bylaws Committee must think twice and cast their vote wisely because it may boomarang and haunt them later. Not only will the people of Florida and Michigan remember their vote tonight, but so will the rest of the nation as well as the rest of the world who look up to the U.S. as the beacon of the free world and democracy everywhere.
I want to leave you with the last words by Someone you might have known vaguely, “Love your neighbors as yourself, and do upon others what you would have done to yourself.” Also ask yourself this question: Do I deserve only half the rights and privileges that everybody else in 48 other states enjoy?!

what i find most ironic about all this, is that after months of trashing hillary and her supporters, now the bho people want us to join hands, have hillary campaign for bho, and have us vote for him. what is wrong with this picture?

I certainly don’t know why Florida and Michigan decided to vote early. I only know that if I was in one of those states I would have raised hell and pushed hard to correct if I felt the law imposed on me to vote early would have affected my vote this way. I am just asking, but is it because someone thought that voting early would perhaps translate into some kind of advantage for a certain candidate? Who understands the reason this happened? How come this rule of the DNC has not been challenged before as a constitutionally unfit rule? Teaches us to pay more attention to our history, does it not?

Posted by: tired | Jun 1, 2008 12:11:19 AM
no thanks for your knowledge, i have plenty.
whtever is a response when you have no response.
and, i would have bet just about anything you were black. thanks for validating.

Posted by: tired | Jun 1, 2008 12:35:29 AM
i could give a rip who or what you are.
by the way, hillary’s “plenty of black votes”==less then 10%.

GET OVER IT. All THE CANDIDATES AGREED NOT TO CAMPAIGN IN FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN. RULES ARE RULES AND THE SAD PART IS SOME OF THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR CREATING THOSE PARTICULAR RULES?? ENOUGH already. Harold Ickes was like a brat that didn’t get what his boss sent him to get. Hartina Flouroy was the same and it seems to me that the committee’s rules were clear that the votes WOULD NOT count. Take it one step further the committee set the rules and for them to tell the committee it was wrong, was like looking in the mirror and saying they were wrong. All candidates agreed that was the eventual outcome. It was clear to see by their questions and concerns they were only interested is seeing Hillary get what she wanted. This is not a good idea for her to authorize her representatives to suggest that it will go to the next level of denial and to keep her failing campaign going. I think the super delegates should step up and give one or the other the needed votes to end this now. This obsession with her being the most electable is a total figment of her imagination. Get over it and let’s move on. Her & her family are almost living in PR to get the desired results, but the math will not provide the results they are seeking. Vote OBAMA 2008 for CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN.

Dear tired,
You took the words right out of my mouth. Affirmative Action.
Well, I don’t know about you, but, I will be an observer until Nov when I vote for someone, anyone, but….and I really mean it. My vote may only be 1/4 of a vote anyway and they may end up giving it to him if I vote Dem, so, I won’t be doing that anymore!