Bill Clinton: Florida, Michigan Are “Embarrassing” For Democrats

The disenfranchisement of Florida and Michigan is embarrassing! The republican controlled legislature in Florida precluded the primary from being held within the approved timeline, and the DNC allowed it to happen. There aren’t 48 states in this union, and EVERY vote needs to be counted. Both Florida and Michigan agreed to a re-vote funded by non-tax dollars, and still Obama refused! He wants only 48 states to count, despite the fact that he thinks there are 57.

Why is Hillary Blocking the Michigan Delegates from being seated?
The MI Dems, the DNC and Obama have agreed to the Michigan Compromise to seat the Delegates in Denver.
But Hillary won’t allow it. It seems she would rather disenfranchise the People of MI.
Does Hillary hateMichigan? It makes you wonder.

The Clintons are just reaching for what they know to be an impossible tie without. It is understandable, but they only are asking for a rule change after the game. There is no way the Dems can win with Clinton at the helm, maybe as the vice. The only way Clinton can win is to manipulate the system, no one likes that. Not only that, it is the same tricks they attack the reps for. Shameful really. Pathetic really. Also, is Clinto really claiming that she is the best cadidate because only she can get the uninformed, white moron vote?

Are you kidding me? Interesting how they were not making this arguement when including Fla. and MI. did not help Hillary. Now that including them would help her he starts back up with it. Please! They need to stop.

BO refused an all expense paid re-vote because he knew how Florida and Michigan originally voted, and how they’d likely vote now. Florida and Michigan primary votes DO count, and the delegates must be seated proportionate to the original primaries.
BO dismisses Florida and Michigan voters, people from small towns, blue-collar workers, gun-owners, church-goers, West Virginia, and virtually everyone else in America. Pray tell, how is this man electable?

Thank you Bill for speaking up about this hypocracy. My understanding is that Michigan wasn’t too receptive of Obama. I think the newness of his campaign has rubbed off. If McCain draws the Reagan Democrats this November, the Republicans will win. The only way I vote for this guy is if Hillary is on the ticket. Why would you put a perfect stranger on the ticket when Hillary won half the Democratic Electorate in the primaries. Who cares what Michele Obama wants or thinks. Hillary supporters will not unite if she is not on the ticket.

The reason Hillary rejected because Obama only wanted to seat delegate and did not want to count the votes from MI…
If so, his popular vote will be diminishing…
Obama doesn’t care about the people from MI…

Ah Emily …. Maybe you can tell me why Hillary is turning her back on the people of Michigan.
Is she harboring a grudge or something?
Why won’t she let their voices be heard?

Horace, in jest, you might be on something there. Its a shame, either way, Clinton or Sodama, McCain will win the GE. As Skippy stated, the nominee was already chosen by Dean, Peolosi, Kennedy, and Kerry, thats why Clinton is having to battle each and everyday. The mains street media (GOP owned) shoved Sodama down everybodys throats in hope that he would be the nominee, since this would be an easy win for the GOP in the fall. The DNC, Dean, and company thought they could make the GOP out a liar and also pushed Sodama, thats why there were no negatives coming out about him in the early caucus’. Then along came Wright….and all hell broke loose. Now, Sodoma is being vetted….the GOP loves this (they’ll retake the White House), and Dean and company dont want to admit they have been defeated, so, they are thrashing Clinton. And, the fool in this is Sodama….after he loses, either the nomination or the GE, no one will care what he does….he was just a pawn in the political process.

True Truth – iness
It is a Delegate Contest. Delegates get seated at convention, not you, nor me nor Emily.
Delegates Dood.
Why won’t Hilz let those delegates be seated?

The Clintons are the bigger embarrassment for the Dems!
If the Clintons years were so good, why wasn’t Al Gore able to succeed the Clintons?
It was the Clintons taking advantage of the very young Monica-Lewinski in the Whore House that denied Al Gore AND ENABLE BUSH, who himself enabled 911 and other embarrassing national disasters!
If the Clintons weren’t so selfish and self-absorbed, could control themselves and had some respect for the Presidency, Al Gore would be President.
Bush would never be allowed to destroy the country. And 911 WOULD NOT have happened!
The Clintons should just go away!

They voted all ( Edwards-Obama-Clinton-Hucklebee-Mc Cain-Paul etccccc<<<<<>>>>>>

He’s right. You can go on about rules all day long, but if punishing the voters is undemocratic. I hope FA and MI come back and bite them on the ### in November. They have it coming.

Clinton’s so called revote strategy excluded republicans and independents from voting in the the revote. That is why the revote idea was shot down, because is was catered to get Clinton the most votes!!!!!! Now she says Obama blocked the revote. Well, if it was a fair revote, maybe he wouldn’t have done so. The Clintons are the clowns of the party. But the party is almost over, thank goodness.

At this point it’s pretty much a moot issue, as far as the democrats are concerned. The infighting in between the two delegates, the mud slinging, the poor handling of two states, this emphasis with delegates over popular vote (that almost anyone with a brain can see is garbage)….
The Democratic party has done enough damage to themselves now that it is my belief, that they have no chance with the american public.
They destroyed their reputation for the sake of greed. I am not saying Bush is innocent of anything, but what I am saying is their recent behavior made anything Bush did irrevelant to the Democrats chance to get the position of the Commander in chief.
Basically, the Democrats screwed themselves out of the one seat in government they want.

TCG,
Let me correct you again:
Obama only wanted delegates and did not want to count the Votes from MI,
Hillary rejected it because Obama doesn’t care about MI people but his delegates…
So please don’t mislead people as Obama always did….

The former president does not know when to be embarrassed. The total lack of integrity and truthfulness is embarrassing. Watching him manipulate and manuever to get his mate into the White House is embarrassing. Seeing his face so red from exertion that it is practically screaming heart attack in the making!!! Get some rest. Read a book. Read some poetry.

Bill Clinton is the incarnation of embarrassment among Democrats.

The Clintons need to go away. They massage the rules whenever it fits thier purpose. That is not the type of individual that I want in the White House! Barak is offering change…REAL change. The Clintons need to embrace that if they truely want what is best for this country and not for thier own personnal glory.

And now Hillary is an incarnation of embarrassment among Democrats as well.
All in the family!

Superdelegates,caucuses,primaries etc.
do not mean nothing in november.
Voters will decide the winner of the
elections.
If the party has un-electable nominee,
the party will lose.
Americans vote for a president with
certain values to be commander in chief
even if they don’t like the party.
Obama as a black man is un-electable.
The blacks and radicals done so wrong
to the democratic party this year.
They pushed the whites to vote
republican again.

The DNC made the rule. FL and MI knew that if they voted early their delegates would not be seated. Neither Clinton or Obama had anything to do with the decision in those states for the early vote. FL and MI voted early anyway and now have to live with the consequences. Regardless of what Clinton or Obama want, the decision is up to the DNC.

Bill clinton is right. Democrats have lost their way in their zeal to nominate a far lefter.

Not one democrat in Florida legislature voted against moving primaries forward. Get over it people!!!
hahahahahahaha

Michigan and Florida are important democratic states, they must be part of the convention and process but, because there were never true contests in either state it seems to me that they should be seated with 50% of delegates allocated to each candidate.

Michigan & FLorida SHOULD be counted, regardless of who it affects or doesn’t affect, they should still be counted!

What’s embarrassing for democrats is Bill and Hillary. What a low-class couple they are. They are truly deserving of each other.

My biggest fear is the splintering of the Democratic Party, allowing McCain to win. What say you all?

I thought the Florida debacle was settled in 2000? YOu mean Hillary now wants a recount? Whatever happendee to Al Gore, anyway?

Bill Clinton is embarrassing himself. These were the rules they agreed to a year ago. Live with it.

MI and FL did this to themselves. They were told the consequence, but they flipped off the party and did it anyway. And Hillary, and Bill’s it would seem too, sense of entitlement is incredible. They seem just like W. I WAS a big Bill fan, even after he embarrassed the country.
It’s the delegate count the wins the nomination. Not the popular vote. Not the number of state wins. Hillary wants to rewrite the rule book. And for her supporters, it seems that you would rather have a women who lies every time she opens her mouth instead of the most qualified candidate.
Go Obama. You represent what I was always taught America stood for, fairness and honesty. You are MY hope!
God bless you!

All this fuss over 2 states and a candidate who won’t play by the agreed upon rules. On the schoolyard, this would be called CHEATING & BULLYING. I don’t want Bill Clinton anywhere near the White House ever again. And if you think he’ll just sit there and host tea parties, you’re really delusioned. Bill Clinton is the ultimate embarassment to this country and we should not forget that Hillary is married to this “piece of baggage”. She and her husband are better suited as scandalous Republicans. She should be McCain’s running mate.

Does anyone understand what’s going on with Florida and their elections? Why can’t they get it right? It’s very annoying.

OK DEMS……..TIME TO JUMP SHIP!!!! YOUR PARTY IS SPLIT AND CAN’T RECOUP!

Drugstohr.
Why did not the Clintons make an issue of this before the primaries began? Hillary knew the consequences of Florida and Michigan moving thier primary elections. Why now?

ALMOST EVERYONE is missing the point here. Democrats want the vote to come up with the answer THEY WANT. This is self evident by responses in this blog and it was self evident in 2000 where we were forced to recount and recount until we HOPEFULLY came up with the answer they wanted.
If the democrats were really interested in democracy they’d allow everyone to vote when each state decides they want to, and count the votes.
Instead they come up with “Super delegates” that don’t have to vote the way the people did and they politic away and don’t count two of the states that will eventually decide who’s president.
I live in Michigan. I wont vote for either of these idiots and I think McCain is an idiot too. I wish someone else were viable in either party.

this is a dream come true! all of you idiots are showing your true colors! john mccain will easily win when he and obama face off… i love the way it is all coming together for U.S.!

Truth – iness
Q – How are they gonna fit the 30 Million People that voted in the democratic primary/caucuses into the Denver Convention Center?
A – They are not. Delegates go in the Peoples’ stead. The delegates then vote on a nominee.
Q- So it is the Delegates that eventually select the nominee kinda like electors from the electoral college select the President?
A – Yes.
Q – So it sounds like the one with the most Delegates will win the nomination?
A – Yes that is how it works.

As a Florida voter- this is ridiculous. Whether the timing was “approved” – we wnet and voted when we were told to and our votes hould count. PERIOD. We didn’t make the decision to change our dates to vote, etc but we, the voting population, are being totally punished for a decision we did not make. I thought we lived in a country where the ideas of true democracy and equal representation trumped what a political party decides to do or not to do…I’m certain that’s what the heart of voting is- a voice given to each citizen. Our voices deserve to be heard- whether they like what we’ve got to say or not. Every tax paying, law abiding citizen has the right to vote – it is one of our basic tenets in the US and that vote should count EVERY time it is cast.

You do have to feel sorry for Bill and Hillary. They are not dumb and they know right from wrong. They fully know that they agreed to the decisions about Fla and Mi months ago and now they desperately cleave to these populist but dysingenuous arguments about disenfranchised voters. It really is sad to see how far they’ve fallen.
Furthermore, the Clinton team is making all their arguments predicated solely from their terribly narrow perspective. When they argue about polls about Hillary supporters who would supoort McCain and the consequences of Hillary losing, they do not consider the consequences of what would happen if they were to manage to subjugate this process to their own selfish whims, this too would be deleterious to the party and to the nominee, Further, the voters who went to the polls in Fla and Mi knew the votes were not going to result in delegates and they chose to exercise their right to vote anyway. Bravo to them and their voices were heard in the context of that election with those names on the ballot under those circumstances. But what about the people who stayed home also recognizing that the vote would not count toward delegates, they would be the ones who would be disenfranchised if you change the rules after the vote. Its a good things the Clintons have lost already, otherwise all this silliness would be elevated to a level of dialogue far beyond the merits.

It is al over Bill and Hillary. Go to cry somewhere else. Votes don’t lie.

This issue has nothing to do with empowering the people. Where were all of these democrats when they knowingly broke party rules? They knew the consequences of their actions, and agreed to hold their primaries early. It would be a disgrace to allow FL and MI the chance to RECAST their votes, as they made the choice in the first place. Now that I think about it, I don’t like the way my state’s vote turned out, I’d like to redo Illinois as well.

Who are we kidding? After what happened in past elections in Florida I would not place a whole lot of credibility in their voting results. As for Michigan, a proportionate split of the delegates seems fair. What is embarrasing is the amount of time and energy going into this stuff because someone wants to get elected any way possible. If you offer truly sound ideas and beliefs (as opposed to political rhetoric and little else) those states not matter in the overall scheme of things.

I don’t know where you’re getting your information from, but it’s wrong. You should try getting information from reputable news sources rather than your own imagination.

Bill like all the wives of other presidential candidates should just shut up. They all say something to embarrass their spouses.
The Ketchup lady called American’s stupid on National TV if they didn’t understand her husbands policies when Kerry was running. Then Barack’s Wife has never be proud of America…
Billy Bob is an embarrassment to his party and his wife.
Look, the Dems created this mess with FL and MI and I’m sure they will get it resolved someway.

Michigan has 128 pledged delegates and Florida 185, but those states have been stripped of all of them because it broke party rules by moving up its vote.
Clinton won the UNCONTESTED January primary. Obama’s name was not on the ballot. Nor was any other democratic candidate.
Hillary’s excuse for leaving her name on the ballot according to a radio interview she gave was “…it really doesn’t matter that I’m still on the ballot because they’re not going to get counted anyway…”.
Mrs. Clinton was well aware of the rules about the MI/FL primaries and agreed to abide by the rules of the DNC at that time. She has seemingly adopted the Bush camp’s logic of “when the rules no longer favor me, just change the rules”…
“To win at all costs is to devalue the victory.”

What is the matter with you Hillary people? How can you continue to ignore the FACT that the rules were clearly set out at the onset of the primary season. Your candidate agreed to abide by them prior to participating. She’s now regretting her decision to play, but that doesn’t mean the outcome should change. Quit whining about her bad decision.

As a Florida resident and Democrat, I agree with Clinton that we should be allowed to have our votes count. WE (the citizens of Florida) didn’t choose to have our votes not count, our governor did. Why hold us all accountable for the actions of the government? It’s not fair. Let us vote!

Where where the Clintons when these rules were being approved by the Democratic party?
Oh… that’s right… they were right in there agreeing with them.
It was not until Hillary realized her coronation was not eminent that they wanted to change the rules.
Their tactics are transparent. They’ve lost. They should go home.

Bill has it more or less right, to the extent that the way the non-seating fiasco was handled is embarrassing to a party that should have been dominating the election storyline (positively) all along the way. In fact, the real embarrassment starts several months before even the first straw polls were conducted, with the movement en masse by various states– Florida and Michigan among them– to run their primaries or caucuses earlier than usual, much earlier in some cases. Noble as their initial intent might have been (even though it backfired royally), the time to deal with decisions running counter to party rules was at the time those moves were made, and the penalty should NOT have been one that could potentially result in disenfranchisement of voters. For the DNC, this was a major tactical disaster, and Howard Dean (of all people!) should have known better. The opportunity to remedy this is long gone, and I fear the moment for effective damage control has now also passed. We’ll never know if Hillary could have won Michigan if Obama had left his name on the ballot; trying to seat those delegates now would be an insult to everyone concerned, even to Carl Levin, the senator who prompted his state’s Democratic party rank-and-file to move their primary in the first place, and who should now pay the price for that blunder with early retirement.

The elitists in the DNC are embarassing every voter they discount. There are millions of democrats sick and tired of being dismissed, ignored or otherwise marginalized. The DNC needs to sit up and take notice of the votes for Hillary Clinton – these are the majority of voters – whether the DNC wants to count them or not.

I voted in the Florida primary and am very upset that the actions of the Republicans in our state created the situation where my vote doesn’t count. I am more upset with the spineless Howard Dean for not fixing this months ago.
There will be many voters in Florida and Michigan that just won’t bother to support a party in November that is ignoring us now.
I unsubscribed to all the Democratic Party email I used to receive. Decades of support from me, no more.

“The DNC needs to sit up and take notice of the votes for Hillary Clinton – these are the majority of voters – whether the DNC wants to count them or not.”
Gloria
Maybe my math is wrong but every source I have checked, whether you include MI & FLA or not, the MAJORITY of voters are voting for Barak.

Why should Obama get any MI delegates.
The simple fact is he received no votes in MI. The man removed his name from the ballot by his own volition – in order to curry favor with IA caucus leaders, he then conspired with his supporters in the MI legislature to stop any attempt to revote. Rev. Wright is right – Obama is nothing but a poitician and a slimey one at that.

This is all very upsetting. I think the best solution is to write David Cook on the ballot and let him be president. That way, at least, one “election” would be satisfying.

Seems odd that the RNC was smart enough to allow just half the delegates from Florida and Mighigan to be counted, but the DNC wanted to penalize them REALLY bad so they stripped them of all the delegates. Reminds me of an old song “Who’s sorry now!!”

Quit acting like all the voters in Michigan and Florida have had their voices ignored. That’s not the case. Those that voted for Obama are perfectly happy with the likely outcome of this primary season. They are going to go right back out in November and vote for Obama again. It is only those of you who voted for Clinton (half of you) that are now regretful about your candidate’s acquiescence. Of that half, most will vote democratic regardless of who the candidate is and the rest of you can vote for McCain or don’t show up at all. It won’t matter. America is ready for change.

Quote” “I voted in the Florida primary and am very upset that the actions of the Republicans in our state created the situation where my vote doesn’t count.”
Well, that takes it. Just how did the republicans “create” the ruling by the DNC against Florida and Michigan? I don’t think the democratic leaders listen to the republicans.
Place the blame where it belongs. Don’t you wish that Floridians had not tried to gain the spot light by moving their primary now.
First “hanging chads”, and now this. Floridians just can’t vote, can they.

Actual vote totals are irrelevant. Delegates are the issue, 2025 is the number,
Clinton whining and crying about losing fair and square is an embarrassment to the country,
she won West Virginia with a blowout,
demographics:high percentage of uneducated whites,
no disrespect to the people of West Virginia, but I do not want uneducated whites calling the shots when the majority has chosen someone else.

I’m fine with the votes of Michigan and Florida counting, but there’s a problem. The DNC said, “These primaries are not going to count. Neither candidate can campaign there, and the votes won’t count because they are violating our rules.” Now this is the DNC, and they make the rules for the Democratic Party, right? Maybe they were stupid, but that’s what they did.
So nobody campaigned. Obama removed his name from the Michigan ballot. Hillary got, like half the votes in each state. Obama got some in Florida and none in Michigan, naturally. So is this really democracy in action? Maybe Hillary would have won both states by just the same margins, but maybe not. For sure, Obama would have gotten some votes in Michigan, where 40% voted Undecided.
So any way you cut it, the DNC screwed up, but neither candidate should suffer for it. To count all of Hillary’s votes, where it was essentially uncontested, and before people had a chance to know Obama in the contest, doesn’t seem fair. But to disallow all the votes from two states isn’t right either? Still, you can’t turn the primary around based on a DNC F-up. Seating all Hillary’s delegates at half strength is one option. It won’t give her the nomination, but it might be a compromise. But any way you cut it, it’s not Hillary’s fault, and it’s not Obama’s fault. It’s the DNC, Michigan and Florida who made this mess. Why start blaming the candidates?
On the other hand, for Bill and Hill to be demanding that all the votes count is also pretty dishonest. If the shoe were on the other foot, they’d be screaming bloody murder before they’d allow Obama to pick up uncontested delegates, and that’s where I lose it. Democracy is supposed to be fair, not dishonest, but that’s not what it has become. Can’t we, the people, speak toward fairness and compromise, rather than division and blame? That’s all I ask.

Count all the votes. Don’t split them. Count them. Award the delegates based on the vote held. The idea of disenfranchising Florida’s voters after the Supreme Court disenfranchised them in 2000 is particularly egregious.
But more importantly, superdelegates have to put Clinton over the top. The last Democrat before Bill Clinton to win the White House was Jimmy Carter way back in 1976, and Carter won narrowly against a terrible Republican candidate. Bill Clinton won the White House twice. His coalition is the winning coalition in the current political context. Hillary brings Bill’s coalition. Obama brings Dukakis and Kerry’s narrow constituencies.
Obama cannot win the White House. Democrats are making a huge and tragic mistake.

Emily: I live in Florida and the
republican party did not cause this
problem! Both parties in the state
legislature voted almost unanamously to
move the primary date up in order to give Florida more influence in the
selection process!
The vote had little to do with politics and much to do with state pride!
If you’re looking to blame someone or something blame the democrats in the
Florida state legislature!

So the Clintonites are deaf and blind as their candidate is. oldspice – have you read all the posts explaining the MI and FL votes? Are you just as stubborn and narcissistic as your candidate as to not believe facts, but choose to play out your fantasies instead?
Please, do present *proof* that Obama ‘conspired’ to thwart revote attempts. We can’t wait to see what you come up with.

They all agreed Florida and Michigan would not count. Now because Hillary is LOSING she wants to change the rules.
It’s unfortunate but if Barack Obama was suddenly trying to change the rules to help him win more votes then the media and the public would say he is getting “affirmative action” or “preferential treatment.”
I don’t think at this late point in the game rules should be changed just so Hillary Clinton can feel better. It sends a very wrong signal to everyone. Changing the rules to accomodate one person says that rules were made to be broken but only SOME of us are allowed to break those rules. The rest of us has to play by the rules. Period.

Reagan fan is mostly write about the nefarious behavoir of the Florida Legislature.
The FL house vote 118-0 to flout the rules. If you live in Florida, you know who to hold responsible.

Pointing fingers doesn’t address the mission that never changes: to do what is right. Millions of individual citizens, who have absolutely no control over what goes on in the DNC committee chambers or in the back rooms of state legislatures … these millions came out to vote … to participate in our democracy. I would have bet any amount of money that of all the political entities, the one that would insist that we count all votes would have been the Democratic Party. After 2000, “never again” should have been our battle cry. Instead, some of us smirk while others look up their sleeves for any answer but the obvious. Count the votes. This year’s edition of the Democratic Party believes itself to be bigger than the people who make up the nation. As a lifelong Democrat, I have come to believe that this Democratic Party’s relevance is at an end. Time for a new party to replace it. Maybe an independent run by Clinton can get that started. We have had a two party system. A political party that hides behind it’s “right” to create and adhere to “rules” is no better than a corporation. It is corrupt.

What you guys are failing to take into consideration, is that even with FL and MI counted and delegates split by popular vote, Clinton would add about 180-185 delegates or so While Obama would add about 130-135 So it’s a difference of +50 for Hillary at this point. AS of right now, Obama is leading by roughly 170 delegates, so taking FL and MI would still leave her behind. It makes no difference. And Hillary is right on this among other things: “those that are going to vote for McCain in spite are making a terrible mistake.” Dems should just bite the bullet, whoever ends up a nominee and vote for the right person.

Get rid of the electoral college! An even bigger hoot! Do you know how likely it is to get a constitutional amendment through to achieve that?

Quote: “True democrats care about the numbers of people voting,not just delegates.”
Really?? then why did the democratic leadership do away with a winner take all primary, after the 1972 election. That still stands. They hate a winner take all, count the people vote with a passion.
Just the facts.

I am totally disappointed with the sore loser process of – if I can’t win, I will do my best to dismantle the party and make a mess and a shamble of the process. The American people have enough to deal with, and now dealing with someone who hates to admit that it is time now to step down and support the top runner. I pray that the best person win. At this time in history, the best person is Obama. Will the real woman of integrity go home and admit that it is over for her?

Has anyone stop to think about whats really going on.
1. The perfect setup by the Republicans
and Florida.
Florida’s governor is a Republican who could hardly care if the DNC punished the democrats in his state.
His allegance is to the Republican party.
Have you forgotten what Florida’s Republican politicians did…stole the election from Al Gore…but you wouldn’t know it or care, (swing voters)
Florida’s governor knew full well what would happen, and it did.
He’s smiling all the way to the Republican convention.
2. As for Michigan, well lets see.
We want to go first mentallity, lets beat Florida. DUMB. The politicians there sold there voters down the tube for there own glory.
It worked just as you plan, the Democrats are in turmoil…Can’t Win.

Can’t we all just get along?

trustthesky, did it ever occur to you that the Obama folks were out celebrating, and have lives outside of a blogosphere?

trustthesky, I think what you’ve noticed is Obama gaining mroe and more support among Americans the longer this nomination process goes on. After all, Clinton’s the one having to pay people to vote for her and “volunteer” for her with street money, not Obama.

Hey Emily, you gotta be crazy if you think “reagan” democrats would vote for the likes of McCain.
I hail from Michigan and I will tell you this much; our primary vote was a farce and meant NOTHING! This was not Barack Obama’s fault.
It was the fault of our local and national democratic leaders.
So to try an lay the blame on Obama is ludicrous, unless you feel that the constituents are morons. Only a moron would buy your argument that it is somehow Obama’s fault that the primaries in Michigan and Florida, held in direct violation of party rules, were excluded.
These state parties, who made the choice, are directly responsible for their own actions.
Many of us in michigan didn’t bother voting in the primary simply because we knew it was a farce!
hillary was the ONLY candidate to vote for; what kind of choice is that? oh my, I could’ve voted “uncommitted”. I should be committed for voting anything at all at such a BS event.
I, and many other voters felt cheated by the state party’s decision to go ahead and violate national party rules and risk our votes being discounted.
Well they did it anyways.
And now you want to blame Barack Obama for it?
how stupid is THAT, emily?

I am quite shocked many for this vote recount of Michigan and Florida have not really done their research. Democratic representatives from Michigan and Florida were working on this since 2002. Those representatives decided to “buck and bluff” the DNC party system when they continued their pursuit despite a special committee vote that turned them down regarding moving the date up. Hilary Clinton supporters controlled the majority of those DNC Committee votes. Then each of those states Democratic representatives let it pass through each of their own state legislatures. All secretly planned and negotiated with other party to let it pass, and then went back to make a final plea move up date had already been passed state legislature, and date had to be moved up. So ultimately those primaries were punished for their “bold ruthlessness.” Primaries became unsanctioned. Vote to make these state primaries unsanctioned was much more severe than normal.
All 2008 Democratic Presidential candidates signed form, and stated they would not campaign and realized primaries did not count. Campaigns were unsanctioned – period. All candidates were able to remove their names from ballots in Michigan except for Hilary Clinton. No candidates campaigned in Michigan. Of course voters all knew Hilary Clinton due to past involvement and being former first lady. Florida Barack Obama could not remove his name, so had to remain on ballot despite hardly any voters knowing who he was. Hilary Clinton was able to run off her husbands name and of course won. And many voters knew her from past. Hilary Clinton won both Michigan and Florida unsanctioned primaries.
Court of law in Michigan declared state law moving date up was unconstitutional. This means date was not valid. Date is illegal. No new vote ordered. Michigan state date law for Primary is illegal, those contests and votes are also illegal on those court declared illegal dates.
These primaries can not be counted as they are. This is illegal. Legally this can be challenged quite easily and won. Multiple unknowns regarding votes and voters who voted and for whom exist- substantiates this position quite adequate to overturn any attempts to count votes as done.
Hilary Clinton publicly stated she was fine with unsanctioned primaries and votes not counting. She realized the implications and states publicly the votes did not make any difference.
Then Hilary Clinton got behind. The overwhelming favorite was losing the race. Then she started the “populist political push” to gain voter support.
I am sure most voters realize what “populist”means. A Candidates makes a stand and promotes an issue only when it is to gain votes for themselves. Generally these stances will never be realized. Candidate wants to creat animosity against other candidate and gain support for themselves by making it seems like they stand behind the voters. But unfortunately this is all a political ploy and voter is getting used by the candidate.
The rules regarding Michigan and Florida Primaries not counting were in place since Augest, 2007. Rules can not be changed midstream. This would be totally unfair.
Delegates from these states can be allowed to attend Democratic Convention, but how many remains to be seen when DNC meets this month. But any inclusions of these states delegates can not influence the outcome of the race to the benefit of either candidate. Counting the votes as done in January would be totally unfair and could be challenged legally. An internal setup regarding DNC vote on this issue would cause so much harm.
It would not make any difference which candidate would be leading. This resolution to seat those delegates some or all must be fair. So much animosity in those states exists at present and encouraged animosity by Hilary Clinton for her own personal gain must be considered and dealt with. DNC may have to have written notarized letters from the delegates on how they will vote and have this all done prior to convention to make sure fairness is accomplished . Then these votes are presented at time of delegates voting with the presented notarized letters stating this is their vote and they will not change their mind. I feel this may be only way to make sure done fair. And delegates get their vote heard and enjoy the convention.
Possibility of an internal illegal political setup to benefit either candidate must be taken away. Votes as done in January can not be considered where it affects the outcome of the race to the benefit of either candidate.

“I agree electoral college must be gone. The effect will increase voting percentage of population, and population’s involvement in politics and government, isn’t what democracy is all about? And Horace, it is possible.”
-Nikita
Agreed, to ALL of it, and also the stupid candidates then only focus on swing states.
This is ridiculous how the delegate count process has taken away from the strength of the individual’s choice to vote and MAKE IT COUNT! One vote for one person! Let the Will of The People be counted. The delegate system, the Two party system, and all that BS should be removed from the so called “democratic process.” Nothing should over ride the Majorities Will, if it does than this is a Flawed Democratic process. Reform the election process!

It’s quite obvious people Hillary supporters who won’t vote for Obama really don’t like Hillary’s plans as both Obama and Hillary have almost identical plans – are you voting on the people again and not the issues? Isn’t that what got us into Iraq in the first place? We voted for someone we could see ourselves having a beer with instead of someone who had a plan for the country. Instead we would like to vote to continue a war in Iraq that had nothing to do with terrorism. I suppose some of us must not have children, or they must be over the age needed to serve. More war is coming your way! And the Chinese will be glad to fund it like they have been funding the Iraq war (est. at 1 trillion so far). It must thrill some of the McCain supporters to see your neighbor’s kids and families destroyed by the Iraq war; legless, armless, disfigured kids coming back traumatized committing suicide – all because of a huge lie perpetrated by a few extremely rich white men who are “on the other side of the isle” of Obama and Clinton. Some of these people must really be looking forward to more of these kids; I wonder if it pleases them see American kids like this? It seems a little sadistic.
Are some people afraid of liberalism? Socialism? Maybe some of you haven’t noticed, but Western Europe where the base of America came from has a higher standard of living. And a stronger currency; we will be sowing Nike’s in the homeland soon working long hours to pay for food and gas – we won’t be able to afford the Nike’s after all, they will be shipped to the developed parts of the world. It must thrill you. Those pesky Europeans, with a stronger currency, free education, free health care, a social net if you happen to lose your way to pay for things – free retraining if your job is lost, 6 weeks of vacation a year – imagine that! How lazy they must be to have a 6 week vacation! Oh and did I happen to mention they are more productive than their US counterparts? See “US keeps world productivity lead by working more” – Reuters article, September 2007. It’s becoming increasingly hard for Americans to travel to Europe or anywhere else in the developed world as their dollar buys them a lot less. Instead, tourist hotspots like New York are now accepting Euros as a form of payment due to the decline of the dollar.
I accept that some people may recommend that I move to Europe “if I talk so highly of it”. I’d rather stay here and make the United States a better place than move to Europe.
Are some of you looking forward to working in pesos? Because the America we love will soon be the equivalent of the Mexico and China us Americans looked at and laughed at for working meager jobs for little pay – just enough to put food on the table.
Liberalism and socialist ideas won’t touch your income. Do you happen to make $150,000? How about $200,000? Most of America makes around $35,000 a year; and has to pay for health insurance; how much is the health insurance these days? How about those medications? The insurance companies and pharmaceuticals sure love those Republicans. Want an education? Sorry it costs; and it costs a lot.
Have those McCain people been to a top notch University recently? You’ll see a lot of Asian, Indian, White – but none of them are Americans, even the White’s are European. Have you seen major research papers published by Americans with non-foreign names and accents? I see Chinese names, Indian, French, German names in the Engineering and Science fields – the fields that provide us with the jobs we need. But where are the Smith’s and Adam’s?
Don’t vote for Obama. Vote for McCain and more tank plants in your area. The Chinese will welcome funding another war. And you’ll enjoy paying $10+/gal and waiting to hear the news about your child in Iran – is he dead yet? Will he come home with arms – whatever appendages he’ll have left over, I hope they’ll be enough to work the rest of his life to help pay back the Chinese for the debt we’re getting ourselves into playing hero in the sand in the Middle East. Maybe Bush and Chaney should go to the beach – it would cost us a lot less, and they can build lots of sand castles (and demolish them to their hearts content) there instead. The dollar is sinking; the American population cannot afford health care, or education. It’s hard to see the full ramifications of it yet – it’s most apparent in food prices, but all the other goods will start showing these price hikes as well. I was in line at the supermarket the other day and I stared as an employee came by and started ripping the price tags from under items – $0.99 for a pack of gum, wait the new tag says $1.39. Hey wait a second! Bread was $1.99 a loaf – why are you replacing the tag with one that says $2.49? Vote McBane! He’ll help you afford everything your heart desires and your American dream will be complete.
Oh, and I hope if you don’t already have a house, you’ll be able to afford one.
Regards,
Paul

Nard, shouldn’t common sense over-ride rules? This country wouldn’t be where it is if we just followed the rules. Communism come to mind, although Obama comes very close to its ideology.

First of all – Paul, Bravo!
Secondly, James – it seems that the Clinton supporters are like lemmings jumping off a cliff. Something gave them a scare, and they all ran in the same direction, not caring whether they were about to fall off the face of the earth, or running to safety. Unfortunately they’ve chosen running off the face of the earth (whatever’s left of it once we p!ss off the rest of the world and blow each other to pieces under their ‘alternate’ candidate), even though they see those before them falling to their fate.

Should Obama ignore Clinton and Clinton supporters, it will be to his detriment. It’s just a different breed of the party….and he needs them to get elected in November–no matter what his wife reportedly says.

SCG, and the decline of the dollar has nothing to do with the national debt which has gone up from 6 trillion to 9 trillion in 8 years? Maybe we could have paid for education for Americans with some of that. A unified North American currency? Unified with who? Canada? Mexico! It must be Mexico. We’ll be using Pesos soon. How exciting. The Canadians look down on us as does the rest of the developed world. A unified North American currency.. that must be similar to the World Series where only the US really participates? Or the Coalition of the Willing (err… US really..).
I’ve heard all kinds of excuses for why the dollar is slipping. Keep making them if they make you happy.

Do you suppose the Obama compromise fits into the Obama strategy of only going for caucuses where everyone’s vote has to be melded into what the group thinks? Then intimidation can twist some people out of their votes. There was every chance given to revote Florida and Michigan, but he knew he would not win.
Why bother to seat them when their votes do not count? They already voted and their elections were certified.
He is now trying to say it was not his fault, but it is. The Party should never use that kind of punishment again. Destroying the votes, in a way that is worse than the robbery of votes in the Florida 2000 General Election, goes against the fundamental principle of government of the people, by the people, and for the people. The Democrat Party has shot itself in both feet this time, and I do not see how it can limp across the finish line in November.
Hillary wants every vote to be counted, Obama does not, that is why he took his name off the Michigan ballot. That is also why he did not agree to revotes in those states. He preferred caucuses. No wonder he is now getting cool receptions in trying to unify the voters in those states. If I were a Michigan or Florida voter, I would certainly not give him my vote in November. I certainly will not.

SCG. I would suggest that you take a course in Economics 101 at your nearest college. A “Unified North American currency”? With whom?? The Canadians wouldn’t hear of it, and the Mexicans, well (irrelevant).
China would probably disagree, when they start calling in their chips. Maybe they will take land. If not, what?
Could not our debt have something to do with the fall of the dollar??
You are probably one of those who would fall for the McCain, Clinton gas tax delay. Right?

YEAH Id rather see an Obama/Edwards ticket than a Obama/Hillary or Hillary/Obama!

SCG. that’s what I said. BUT, China already has us over a barrel. And I’m not kidding about when they decide to call in their chips.
Where did you think I said that they wouldn’t.
And my panties are not in a knot. In fact, I think we are closer than you would admit. (In spite of you thinking that we would ever do away with the electoral system, however much more sense that it would make). At least, not in my lifetime, but I am as old as dirt. And a white Obama supporter at that, we are not all young.

Willy, you debate pretty well for someone as old as dirt…and an Obama supporter to boot, huh? I’m not even going there with you on the white thing. I think he’s done okay across that great divide pretty much.
I support only my country, good and bad, flaws and strengths and I love her dearly.
my husband and I both went to college thanks to Uncle Sam, served our country proudly and would do it again… and I cannot find one candidate this election that I feel deserves the helm. That is rather sad.
I’m glad you have some faith in one of them. I’m holding out for something better…in my lifetime…and yours. :)
Have a good night everyone.
Dinner and kids beckon~

If the rule of law had its course in the 90′s, now Bill and Hillary clinton would have disenfranchised thanks to perjury, lying, obstruction of justice, suborning perjury and lying before the grand jury. Common folks would have been put behind bars for at least 5 yrs and in many states once you are behind bars you cannot vote! Instead we have these two criminals gallavanting around the country preaching to others.. It just ###### me off even though I am not a democrat and just an average american citizen, who cares..

Pretty hard to imagine why anyone would expect that the best and brightest among us would ever choose or be successful as a presidential candidate. We have neither the electorate nor the system that would make that possible. Any prospective candidate cannot have had an adventurous youth, cannot have written anything outside the box, outside the mainstream, and on the way has to pass muster with the power structures within one or the other political party. Besides that (and here’s where I ironically prove my point), the best and the brightest might very well be an atheist, and that clearly is a deal breaker.

At the urging of the national party, all the candidates agreed not to participate in either state’s primary. John Edwards and Barack Obama dutifully withdrew their names from the Michigan ballot only to find out that Hillary Clinton had failed to honor the national party’s request. She alone was left on the ballot in that state. What a clever little maneuver that turned out to be for her.
There was no question that she was flip-flopping on her initial pledge. Same flip-flopping she did with Iraq war and NAFTA

Edwards endorses Obama…
The fat lady sings

Quote: “Unfortunately nobody cares anymore what Bill and Hillary think. Their influence has faded quickly.”
That is where you are wrong, as shown by the many who are still supporting Senator Clinton to the end. Let’s remember that Clinton was a practically unknown southern governor, just as Carter.
How does the democratic party choose these people and WHY.

He thinks that’s embarrassing? Has he heard about the West VA exit polls? Now that’s embarrassing.

kissthesky, you’re the one who needs to take a stats refresh – all numbers point to Hillarity conceding in the end. Have you noticed the tone of her race lately? She’s slowly telling folks to come together as democrats and support Obama.
One of these days you guys will ‘get it’ – it took long enough for her to.

Florida votes count. I pay my taxes, both my kids serve our country. How dare others decide that Florida votes shouldn’t count.
All primary votes deserve to be counted. I’m tired of the politics of the vote. It is okay to send my kids to fight wars, to have them suck it up…they do.
The very least this country can do is let our votes count. I’m a registered FL independent and couldn’t vote in the primary. However I find it insulting, as a blue star mom, that Democrats and Republicans are not having their voice heard. I thought this was a democracy.
Both the Democratic party and the Republican party should get off their grand stand and accept the vote.

How difficult is a revote? We shall fundraisers standing by to foot the bills. This is the only chance to put a party together.
No! They have to wait until the nomination is fixed before they let the voters of MI and Florida in.
Try tell 2 million voters in the face. We don’t want you until general election. Come and foot the bill where you have no say in it.
Nobama!
I can assure your that 4 years of McCain with no tax increase is better than the big spenders of the democratic ass this time who stick you into a position to pay for their squandering under a rookie.

Bill is so right! Floridians and Michiganders just will not get off their duffs in November to vote Democratic unless the party resolves this issue in some upright way rather than just for political expediency.
Howard Dean, this is your worst gaffe since primal scream.

I think if Hillary was winner Bill or
Hillary would not be asking theses
vote to count.But they are behind so
not try to break the rules that applied
to everyone else and agreed.The press is
making a big deal of this as well and
look what happen Al Gore the Supreme
court Bush the election,no one change
that,not even Florida.

Obama supporters DON”T want this to happen because he was dead set against having Florida and Michigan revote and be seated. ..however, I think on May 31st, the delegates will be seated, the count will go to 2209, and Hillary will win the nomination on the convention floor! Hillary 08!
SORRY BUT THIS IS NOT ACCURATE. BOTH CLINTON AND OBAMA SIGNED AN AGREEMENT THAT FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN WOULD NOT COUNT AND THAT THEY WOULD NOT CAMPAIGN THERE. CLINTON DID THIS WHEN SHE AND HER CAMPAIGN ASSUMED THEY WERE THE PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE. HILLARY VIOLATED THAT AGREEMENT BY CAMPAIGNING IN FLORIDA AFTER AGREEING NOT TO. NOW THAT OBAMA IS AHEAD THEY WANT TO GO BACK AND CHANGE THE RULES. I AGREE THAT THE FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN DELEGATIONS WILL BE SEATED AFTER THE MAY 31 MEETING, BUT THE DELEGATE TOTAL WILL NOT GO TO 2209. THE COMMITTEE WILL FIGURE OUT A FAIR METHOD TO APPORTION DELEGATES BASED ON WHO IS AHEAD AT THAT TIME.

What kind of drug are you Hillary supporters on? Do you actually think that Senator Clinton wants those votes to count? Of course not. If those votes are counted, she will still be behind in both the popular vote, superdelegates and pledged delegates. She has repeatedly said that she thinks caucuses are unfair and her supporter often refer to the removal of all the caucus states’ numbers. That eliminates a lot more states than Michigan and Florida.

Dems’ Unfinished Business

The Democratic nomination battle may be over but the shouting. The rapid response to President Bush’s false comfort of appeasement shot suggests the shouting has just begun. As Democrats pivot toward the general election, there is still the unfinished …

Quote: “Has anyone noticed that Hillary is AHEAD in the popular vote?”
Ah, no Ann, because she is NOT:
Even she has stopped claiming that. You wouldn’t lie would you?
(CNN) — Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe said Wednesday Hillary Clinton has overcome Barack Obama in the total popular vote.
“Senator Clinton took the lead in the popular vote last night because voters believe she is the candidate best able to beat John McCain and lead our country,” McAuliffe said.
Is he right? That depends on which measure of the popular vote is used.
Four different scenarios of the total popular vote have been kicked around: (1) only counting primary contests without factoring in Florida and Michigan, whose contests were not sanctioned by the national party, (2) counting primary and caucus contests without Florida and Michigan, (3) counting primaries and contests and Florida but not Michigan, and (4) counting all primaries and caucuses including Florida and Michigan.
Clinton trails in all four counts, but by significantly different margins. In the first scenario she trails by by about 397,000, in the second she’s behind 699,000, in the third she has a 405,000 vote deficit, and in the fourth scenario she trails by 77,000 votes.”