Bill Clinton: In Defense of Michigan and Florida

What happened to the comments that were already here? Spooky….Anyway, that is exactly it Bill! The voters are being ripped off by the very party who wants their support. That’s why I am a New Independent after being a Democrat volunteer all my adult life. I owe the DNC nothing if all they are going to do is squash our voice for their choice. Why make us go through all the primaries then? Why not just step out in the beginning and tell us “Okay this is the one we are providing for you. Vote in the general. Come on Hillary let’s split to a third party, you have the numbers…..

Just count the VOTES! It doesn’t matter who they benefit! COUNT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE’S VOTE-THAT’S ALL THAT MATTERS!

Just give it all to HIllary. She still does not win.
If they count their vote as popular and give the race to Hillary because maybe she might have more popular votes then I, here in Iowa want to be able to go and vote and have mine count also. So would how many more states who do not have primaries?

It’s true that some implicit forces force the Dem. superdelegates to unite behind Obama ——– the weaker candidate. Someones may have hidden agenda, that they intentionally wish to have a weak Dem. party nominee, then they can control him, or they can run presidency in 2012.
I have waited so many years to see a real smart, capable person to be US. president, but I’m so disappointed to see Obama’s favored.

Oh please Bill………. Get a life !!!
Can’t you see the writing on the wall, the Clinton’s are DONE !!!
Obama ’08

I am a native of Florida and I am sorely disappointed that my vote in the primary election doesn’t count or matter. We, the people of Florida are being punished and penalized because the powers at be changed the date of the primary election. I am being FORCED to support Obama or vote Republican in the general election. I don’t take kindly to being forced to do anything —– so here’s to the DNC, I’ll vote for McCain. The DNC obviously doesn’t think my vote is important.

Wake Up America! Obama will lose in November
America, America, God shed his grace on thee.
Then why are we letting an anti-American, unpatriotic, charlatan who stated from his own lips before speaking to a packed crowd in North Carolina, “Watch me wow these white folks” be our nominee?
Obama will lose in November and all because we, America allowed a few spoken words to woo the White House away from us.
His associations show us Obama lacks judgment: Antoin Rezko, William Ayers, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Iraqi born Aiham Alsammarae, the former electricity minister convicted of corruption in Iraq.
I suppose under God’s guidance, since I lived through the Bush years, I will survive this fool’s one four year term unscathed if America allows this fraud into the White House.
70% of we Democrats will not vote for Obama; however, since Michigan and Florida do not count I suppose our voices do not either.
Without Hillary Clinton on the top of the ticket, with or without the loser Edwards on the fraudulent Obama ticket ( the true source of race baiting in this countries primary-with Jesse Jackson, Jr. being the race-baiting architect), Obama will NEVER get my vote.
I’d rather be a McCain Democrat than see the fraudulent, mob backed, media created Manchurian candidate Obama in the White House.
“Keep in mind what Dan Morain wrote in the September 8, 2007, Los Angeles Times:
“Now, promoting himself as a fresh face on the national political stage, proclaiming his distance from lobbyists and the Washington culture of special interests, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) has to contend with his own history. … From Chicago to Springfield, his past is filled with decidedly old-school political tactics — a history of befriending powerful local elders, assisting benefactors and special interests, and neutralizing rivals.”
Oh, yes, and did we mention, Obama’s name also appears on the witness list for the current Antoine Rezko trial, making his one more in what former Illinois U.S. Sen. Peter Fitzgerald called the “Illinois Combine”.
For more Obama old style politics information, log on to http://www.zimbio.com/Obamamania/articles/366/One+degree+separation+Obama+Illinois+Combine
That’s all we Democrats need this year is an indicted Democratic nominee! For more Obama old style politics information, also log on to http://www.opednews.com
Once you read these articles you will find how Obama took money from Iraqi born Aiham Alsammarae, the former electricity minister convicted of corruption in Iraq, who put up $2.7 million in property to help raise $8.5 million to free Tony Rezko from jail in Chicago.
The Times reported that Alsammarae had contributed six times to Obama’s presidential campaign, and if Rezko had not been caught and indicted Obama and Michelle “I hate America” Robinson Obama would have profited from building nuclear power plants in Iraq the country we are at war with.
This is not borne out of racism; for I am an African American, female, informed Democrat.
With Obama in the White House and his radical, leftist, socialistic, unpatriotic and often over-bearing and speaking ill of America spouse at his side, we will need less Reverend Wright inspired teachings, Antoin Rezko and William Ayers friendships, and most certainly, less architect of race-baiting Jesse Jackson, Jr. and the Illinois Combine old style politics, and more of the true and living God’s spirit in this country.
With Obama in the White House God Bless America will not be a phrase, but will become a prayer.

Bill has really forgotten what it means to honor an agreement!!

HRC: 16,691,639
BHO: 16,648,060
Hillary has the popular vote. The DNC with able maneuvering by Nancy Pelosi and the MSM takes the victory away. The Republicans win in the General Election because of defections from the Democrats angered over a corrupt process and rampant sexism.
Lysistrata 2008. Make them eat their campaign signs.

Too bad, DNC has rules to supersize the elitists such that one equals 15000 votes.

Unless MI and FL votes are considered, there’s always going to be an asterisk next to presumptive nominee Obama’s name.
Context defines rules … when the context changes, the rules should too. DNC felt they’d scheduled in such a way that a nominee would be clear early on. That didn’t happen. To refuse to seat delegates in the closest race in American politics is ridiculous.

With Obama in the White House God Bless America will not be a phrase, but will become a prayer.
Posted by: informed democrat
Wow, for someone considering themselves a informed democrat, that has to be single handedly the most biased, moronic posting this week. Tell the truth, you’re just a republican troll worried about Hillary losing, because Obama going to empty a lot of republican seats if he wins.

Come on Hillary leave the dirty Democrats in the dust, run Independent. They did nothing for me after a lifetime of being one of them. You don’t owe them a thing. Hillary or McCain

Remember when Bill was complaining in NH about Obama not getting vetted by the media. He is right afterall…If only these Rev. Wright, Ayers, Rezko issues were brought up before Iowa, Hillary should have been the nominee by this time.

The party leadership of Michigan & Florida knew the party rules when they advanced the dates of their primaries. Obama, rightly following the rules didn’t even appear on the Michigan ballot. The Democrats, ever spineless, are for some reason terrified of a convention where something is actually decided. Conventions have decided candidates for many years now. They have become so boring of late that they are not worth watching, except perhaps for a few key speeches. Let the process work. Let the primaries be run. Let the Credentials Committee decide if the Democratic Party will follow its own rules. Let the delegates vote. The proceedure has been in place for years now. I’m no Hillary fan but at least she has backbone.

Barack Obama himself, but now playing the role of George Bush in the sly with such skill! Sen. Barack Obama obviously has so much more in common with George Bush than meets the eye; it is said they are even very distant relatives; well, I’m not surprised! And as usual the whole Washington media establishment was silent, more or less abandoning their responsibility of safeguarding the rights of the people to vote in a democracy such as ours; ditching their role─ to say the obvious. Sen. Obama’s lawyers had successfully blocked the re-voting of Michigan and Florida. I amazed that the preventing Michigan and Florida vote didn’t seem to bother anyone in the whole Washington media establishment one bit; not even that MSNBC motor- mouth Keith Dobermann. In this new era of new politics that’s promised by Sen. Obama, can this really happen, or is this politics as usual– circa Florida 2000? The more Sen. Obama strains to speak of his new era of politics in America, less and less of it seemed real. Sen. Obama should practice what he preaches so blatantly and the presidential primary campaign is a good place to start…I think, it’s only just that Al Gore should endorse Sen. Hillary Clinton.

Will someboby please explain to me why a Loser like Howard Dean became the head of DNC…YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Count the votes and convince the superdelegates to vote for Clinton. It’s the only change Democrats have to win in November and save the Supreme Court. Obama is a fraud.

FAT ASS BILL IS AT IT AGAIN. SPREADING LIES, SAYING ANYTHING HE HAS TO TO GET HILARY ELECTED SUCH AS HIS POSITION ON FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN. HE CONVIENTLY FORGETS THAT HILARY VOTED IN FAVOR OF NOT SEATING THE MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA DELAGATES (WHEN SHE WAS AHEAD IN THE RACE) BECAUSE THESE TWO STATES CHOSE TO HOLD THEIR PRIMARIES EARLY.
ALSO, LETS NOT FORGET THAT ON 10/10/07 HILARY STATED, (REGARDING THE MICHIGAN PRIMARY) “IT’S CLEAR, THIS ELECTION THEY’RE HAVING IS NOT GOING TO COUNT FOR ANYTHING.”
YOU CLINTONS, ALL THREE OF YOU, DON’T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT PEOPLES VOTING RIGHTS. ALL YOU CARE ABOUT IS WINNING THE WHITE HOUSE ANYWAY YOU CAN.
WELL, ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. HILARY WILL BE LUCKY IF SHE GETS ELECTED DOGCATCHER. HER POLITICAL CAREER IS OVER, BILLS LEGACY IS IN RUINS AND POOR CHELSE HAS TO LIVE WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT HER PARENTS ARE SLIME.
REGARDING THE FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN VOTERS WHO ARE NOW COMPLAING…THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS MADE A DECISION, RIGHT OR WRONG AND THEY MUST NOW LIVE WITH IT. THE HELL WITH THEM.

The Clintons are silly. Can you imagine after a ball game is lost you argue that you got more cheers and the rules are not fair and that you should be declared winner despite loosing it on the scores? Just plain silly. What they are doing is a national embarrassment and disgrace.

Sad that people are going to cross party lines and vote for McCain because the leaders in their own state failed them. The Democratic leaders of Florida and Michigan are responsible for playing craps with the votes of their citizens.
Because your state leaders broke the rules, you’ll cross party lines? Good. We didn’t need you then. We’ll have Florida and Michigan democrats to blame for reversing Roe vs. Wade or inviting the Iraq war to continue.
ITS YOUR OWN LEADERS’ FAULT!! NOT THE ENTIRE NATIONS LEADERS!!
WEAK DEMOCRATS…GO LOVE THE BUSH PARTY!

Such foolishness. I want to know where these ‘popular’ vote counts are coming from? RealClearPolitics.com has a counter up, and the only way Clinton has even a slim margin is if you count Florida and Michigan and don’t take into account all of the people who voted AGAINST them (the Clintons) in Michigan. For God’s sake, people, stop crying because the world is changing and someone other than a Bush or a Clinton isn’t going to be in the White house.

Strange that Americans would want to vote in some-one ready to annihilate an entire nation! Even GWB at his fiercest only had a few war-mongering dictators removed from power/tried and hung. 66 MILLION LIVES will be on your heads!

Boo Frickity Hoo. If Obama won both states Bill Clinton would be on the exact opposite side of the argument. This is all about power and nothing about fairness.

JUST REVOTE AND THAT WILL SETTLE THIS.

Pretty weird that the Democratic Party is treating these two swing states so horribly.
Is it just Howard Dean’s big ego that is wrecking Obama’s changes for a good November turn-out in Michigan and Florida?

Here is the part that I find funny. The Clinton’s have decades of political assets they used to win this election. Hillary started with 30% of the Super Delegates.
Obama was a no-name. Hardly anyone knew he existed.
And yet through his own ability and his good leadership decisions he put together a campaign team that not only kept him in the race but has at this point assured him as the winner.
With all odds stacked up against him he overcame the odds. This is a man who has been overcoming the odds his whole life. He is a highly educated, successful black man and I think that scares people. For me it is a non-issue as the CEO of the large software company I work for is also a black man.
I really wish people would vote with their minds instead of their eye’s and gender. Hillary is an intelligent woman but listening to some women talk about how they are only voting for her because she is a woman. Or others indicating they won’t vote for Obama because he is a ni@@er makes me disgusted with america.

For all those cry babies!
Florida, Michigan and the Clintons made a a decision.
Now they are trying to turn a mule into a donkey.
Live with it.
_

Hillary should run on her own independent ticket and she would beat McCain and Obama and let the people like Ted kennedy who has never appeared to me to respect women and the others who do not want a women to be presedent see how much power they really have.

what kind of short-sighted idiot takes his name off of a ballot when the state is still going ahead with a vote which could matter?

tick tock
flip flop
flip flop
THONG!
Seriously, Bill, what is the deal with saying one thing and then doing another?

if the voters of Florida and Michigan are made to feel disrespected, the chances of a Democrat taking the Presidential oath of office in January 2009 is ZERO

I am European but I would like to drop my two cents here. I am appalled with some of the supposed HRC supporters comments here, I cannot believe someone can call themselves democrats and vote for John McCain. I think this people are just undercover republicans trying to divide the democrats with this sort of shameless comments.
But then again, if they are really “democrats” you guys deserve what you get.

MI, FL Dem party leaders are the problem but instead of dealing with them the people of MI and FL will vote for McCain.

Hi all!
Bill Clinton is smart. He speaks from the heart. He’s speaks as an elder–one who prefers to skip the BS and just say it like it is. “Wowing” people doesn’t give him kicks anymore.
He knows what’s going down. We can learn a lot from him, and we won’t have to read between the lines.

Hey sweetie, come here and sit on my lap and I will answer your question.

europe1 – stay in Europe, or learn to understand.
Americans do not necessarily simply vote or support an ideology (although I have also to admit they often do).

I am a native of Florida and I am sorely disappointed that my vote in the primary election doesn’t count or matter. We, the people of Florida are being punished and penalized because the powers at be changed the date of the primary election. I am being FORCED to support Obama or vote Republican in the general election. I don’t take kindly to being forced to do anything —– so here’s to the DNC, I’ll vote for McCain. The DNC obviously doesn’t think my vote is important.

chris – I thought you were asking who is an idiot.

apparently some find it hard to believe that they support a candidate whom they truly believe in rather than give in to harassment, intimidation and false accusations of racism because they won’t agree to support their own candidate who doesn’t always walk the talk he is selling them, but it doesn’t matter because, in their eyes, he is flawless and divine…

robert……obama’s inexperience and lack of foresight was the reason why he actively withdrew his name from the ballot in the first place…….such a failure to appreciate the variables of a political campaign, let alone the duties and changing circumstances that constantly face a President, makes him the WRONG choice….

What is the Messiah afraid of???
Your supporters may have long prostrated, but we STAUNCH supporters of the Steel-Backboned Lady in Red (and sometimes in Blue) will never vote for the “Savior.”
Compare with the people in Guam, he thinks those in Florida and Michigan are trash—or worse yet—just pure parasites.
Mind you, the voters in Florida and Michigan DO pay much, much, much more in taxes than the handful in Guam, which is just the smallest of your 57 States (plus Hawaii and Alaska which you said you had not visited).

According to Obama, Hillary is Winning
By Bud WhitecloseAuthor: Bud White Name: Joyan and Bud White White
Email: susanunpc@gmail.com
Site:
About: See Authors Posts (20) on May 14, 2008 at 2:23 PM in Barack Obama, DNC, Florida, Hillary Clinton, Michigan, Superdelegates, West Virginia
The Obama campaign has argued that Super Delegates ought to vote in accordance with the “will” of the people. Really? Then let’s run the numbers. Under that metric, who would have a lead in Super Delegates? The Super Delegate total from the states that Hillary has won thus far (including FL and MI) is 418, to Obama’s 372. If the MI delegates are split 50/50, Clinton still wins 403.5 to Obama’s 386.5. If Super Delegates are counted according to Barack’s formula, Hillary wins the nomination. Period.
The numbers are even more impressive after Hillary crushed Obama in West Virginia. WV has 11 Superdelegates. Hillary is now ahead, even if you exclude FL and MI: she leads 374 to Obama’s 372.
http://12counts.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/why-obama-wont-count-the-votes-hillarys-winning/

Hello there Europe1. Don’t you have a European blog you can participate in, you know, one where the issues might change YOUR life. I don’t think you are entitled to an opinion about how we run our railroad! Regarding our current leader’s decision to go into Iraq, why don’t you share with us just which country you’re from, I’d venture that throughout history your leaders have done a couple of things you may, as a country have not all agreed with!

false accusations of racism?
lol you people truly are stupid…and thoroughly dishonest.
So the little ladies are pissed off because hillary isn’t the nominee. Go ahead, vote for McCain.
As it stands right now, this election year will prove to be the end of the DNC. If you think somehow putting McCain in office is going to get you hillary in 2012, you are oh so sadly mistaken.
It will be crystal clear soon enough.

Popular vote as of May 16, 2008
These figures INCLUDE Florida and Michigan, as they were fairly and legitimately earned by Senator Hillary Clinton, and have been validated by the respective Secretary’s of State.
Obama 16,680,827
Clinton 16,710,298
Total Diff. +29,471 (Clinton)
Pct. Diff. +0.08% (Clinton)
So, why SHOULD Hillary quit NOW?
Who do you think will be leading after next Tuesday?
Hint – See below:
Combined population of Oregon, Montana and South Dakota = 5,173,438
Combined population of Kentucky and Puerto Rico = 8,086,459

The only rule that counts, if you believe in Jeffersonian democracy, is to count the votes by the principle of one person one vote.

Things are NOT as they are made to appear.
For all the talk about “Super Delegates”, there is nothing “Super” about them. Just as everyone of us, they have one vote each. Their endorsement is just that, an endorsement. It is not a vote. They are not supposed to come into play unless there is a deadlocked convention, and in that case, they are expected to exercise their BEST JUDGMENT to cast their votes for that candidate they, in view of their extensive experience and political wisdom, think would be able to WIN the General Election. They are not supposed to be endorsing this or that candidate, BEFORE THEY VOTE AT THE CONVENTION. To do otherwise is to be false to the trust and responsibility that has been placed in and on them.
It would be better at this point if all the bickering supporters of each candidate looked at the number of ACTUAL PLEDGED DELEGATES allocated to their candidate on the basis of primaries and caucuses won. Those figures, as of May 16, 2008 (NY Times web site), for those who truly follow politics are:
Obama 1418
Clinton 1352
Diff. 66
Of the “surveyed” “Super Delegates”, of which there are approx. 795, there are at least 238 who have not “endorsed” any candidate, which is as it was intended to be. Again, an “endorsement” does not necessarily translate into a convention vote, since in theory “Super Delegates” are supposed to represent the wisdom of the party and are expected to be above the fray. Those who have endorsed, really should be stripped of their position and replaced by those who will act as intended. However, that is the responsibility of the DNC, which so far, has proven inadequate to discipline its own members.
The bottom line, “Super Delegate” endorsements should not be counted by candidates claiming that such an “endorsement” makes this person into a PLEDGED DELEGATE, for that is NOT THE CASE, and to think otherwise is to delude oneself and one’s followers. It is also wrong for the media to even report what “Super Delegates” are doing now, as they do not even come into play unless and until there is a DEADLOCKED CONVENTION.
However, there is nothing to prevent partisans from ‘counting chickens before they hatch”, nor is there anything to prevent the media from playing games with gullible people to increase interest in these silly stories.
As Yogi Berra once said, “It ain’t over, ’til it’s over”. And this fight is a long way from over.

europe1 – hey don’t get excited. That’s how an invasion started! It was a joke. Have some humors….

One last thought about my Electoral College Vote analysis; in it I gave Senator Obama full credit for the state caucuses he won. However, it should be noted that there are not any caucuses to be won in the Big Leagues during the General Election. There are only PRIMARIES, WINNER-TAKE-ALL.
And I am sure the “Super Delegates” are aware of that.

You know Billy as well as I do she voted not to count the vote if they voted ahead of New Hampshire.They all did,,NOW she want the popular vote to throw in the faces of supers she wants to change the rules mid stream.She can’t have it both ways time to tell the spoiled bi— she can go home she has a hissy fit if she don’t get her own way and from what I am hearing if you don’t get her elected there is a divorce in your family ohhhh poor baby >>>>>You are a piece of crap and when you leave this you will amount to nothing in many of the books
Yavo Lam nice math I hope you don’t have a job in accounting

All of the candidates agreed to not campaign in either state. Obama could have at least gotten a larger amount of the votes/delegates had they all decided to at least campaign in the states.
So the question is this…
If following the rules has hurt Obama on terms of votes in those states, and wanting the delegates to be seated fairly has been used against him by his opponents to tarnish him and his general election chances, how does this debacle benefit him?
Clearly moving the primary dates was meant to benefit somebody in some way and it blew up in their face, now Baracks candidacy, and the Democratic party is jeopardized by it.

Talk Talk Talk like it is.
The party stinks.
BO fanatics start the negativity and double standards and get away with it. Racism starts both ways and they screw the voters.
The more the BO fanatics come in with their venom, the more determined we are to give them hell.
MAMA; Nobama

Observer,
Good observation. The Republican strategy worked perfectly. That’s exactly what the republicans hoped and did by imposing the early primary date to the Democrats in Florida.
Now, the DNC punishes the Democrats, because the Floridan republicans wanted them to do so.

Yavo Lam nice math I hope you don’t have a job in accounting
IND older person
==========================================
Why the put-down, IND older person? Are you saying that my math, or my reasoning is suspect, or both? And if so, then in what manner? Kindly point out the error of my ways, or my methodology. Else, I will accept your apology.

Current lead Democrats need counseling ss they may be guided through right path to democracy. And how can you ignore millions of voters?

“It’s over when the voter’s say so”.
It does not matter what the lady in the pantsuit says.

I’ts not over until all the votes are counted! Just like the lady in the pantsuit says so.

mark – go take a hike. It might help you with your anger control.

Whether you like to hear it or not, Bill has made a point. The voters in MI and FL did not make the decision to move the primary schedule, but millions of them who turned out to vote in the primaries anyways vote to get their voices heard. The superdels might not like to hear it, but they know DAMN WELL that Obama won’t be able to carry those two states EVEN IF he campaigned there. If the older voters had not liked Clinton, they would and could stayed home, instead of turning out en mass to vote for her, even though she did not campaign there.
To me, the Dem party decides to forego all its core voters, and let this campaign season to be hijacked by the elite wealthy, the blacks, and the college kids. It’s as simple as that. I’m just so plain disgusted by the Democratic party, Howard Dean, and Nancy Pelosi. To hell with them, I’m going to vote for McCain, come Nov.

Are you people from the left wing of the clinton party stupid?
This is a party, you have no rights at all when it comes to there vote and you never have (see Tom Pendergast, who incedently appointed our last truely great president, President Truman).
Even funnier are you “Jeffersonian Democracy people”, Jefferson the slave owner, Jefferson only men who own land can vote. When Jefferson said one MAN one vote he meant it “sweetie” you women are just to stupied (which is why we in the 20th century had to correct Jeffersons mistake)!
You people are sad you will vote for an extension of GWBs term just to make a point. That you are a cry baby and if I don’t do what you say you are going to run and cry and teach me a lesson, maybe you will hold your breath until you turn blue (just wishful thinking on my part). Go vote for John “100 years war” McCain and see where your life goes then. I will be laughing somewhere else while the brain drain that you are seeing because of GWB and JM continues. Enjoy your country because nobody else will.

The Clintons are working their heart out for the country. Threats about political future from the BO fanatics are ridiculous.
If there is no justice today, there is no future for the country. The Clintons don’t care about the threats. So people should behind the president to get the party on the right track.
We know that the party have screwed the voters and establish double standards to silent 2M voters. That is a sin. In order
to take the momentum away from Hillary, BO and his company stopped revotes and ignore their right of nomination by votes.
Does the following mean anything to BO fanatics:
For the people, of the people, and by the people.
BO is now putting the party before people. He has no backbone. He ducks challenges, slacks, goes to vacation amidst a campaign, blames on their staff for his mistakes. His standing is on the paper and he unloads his responsibility to staff. This is a wimp with no backbone.
BO promote poetic change with no substance. The Clintons change the country so that we are much better off with low crime rate, realistic welfare program, and gave the Democratic Party’s reputation for economic management.
Vote for All American Hillary; Nobama.

Yavo Lem–
If you think the superdelegates will overturn Obama’s pledged delegate lead at the convention, you are crazy. I will even go so far as to say Hillary Clinton won’t even try to take it to the convention.
Why? Because she is a LOYAL democrat, as she proved yesterday in her statement regarding Bush’s comments. She will rally behind Obama. This will be over June 4th, as it should be. There is no way she will put the party or her own political career at stake. Why her supporters cannot be as gracious as she is trying to be is beyond me.
Bill on the other hand is just an idiot.
NO CONVENTION FIGHT
========================================
“This will be over June 4th, as it should be.” And just why SHOULD this be over on June 4th?
ANSWER:
“If you think the superdelegates will overturn Obama’s pledged delegate lead at the convention, you are crazy.”
I do and I’m not crazy. Do you not know what the function of the “Super Delegate” is? If not, try reading Geraldine Ferraro’s NY Times article, “Got a Problem? Call the Super.”
“Bill on the other hand is just an idiot.” I assume you have proof of this allegation. If not, is it your habit to just go around libeling people? The term “idiot” is obsolete in science, and has been replaced by a broad definition of “Profound Mental Retardation”, so are you then saying that former President William Jefferson, who is a lawyer and former Rhodes Scholar, suffers from Profound Mental Retardation, as defined in the DSM-IV? I hope not.

Slight Correction: Make that Former President William Jefferson CLINTON, in my last post

We should line up behind the president who brought real changes to this country not the poetic change that BO promote which is just hot air.
Vote for Hillary.
Do you know how BO get his credential and how he does about it. Here is how:
Todd Spivak of the Houston Press has documented how Obama accomplished next to nothing in his first six years in the Illinois legislature.
Then Emil Jones Jr. an African American with thirty years in the legislature made Obama a sponsor of 26 bills that became law. This is how BO portrays himself as a highly successful legislator. This is just like giving him the ball at 1 yard line. Has Obama repaid Jones? Yes. He has provided tens of millions in earmarks for Jones’ district. As to such actions, Jones famously said: “Some call it pork; I call it steak.”
Michelle Obama’s salary at University of Chicago Hospitals when her husband won the US Senate seat was $121,000. Within weeks of his swearing in, her salary went to over $320,000. The following year Obama did an earmark request for $1 million for her employer.
BO is just a talker who used bombastic high-flown language to fool millions of people by poetic promises of change. In reality, he has taken considerable money and support from all sorts of corporate and other special interests. Remember his Bittergate in Frisco! Also, his fabricated credential in the net is just hot air; FACTCHECK says don’t believe it.
BO does not have what it takes, the stamina and tenacity to be a true, and solid reformer. Hillary clearly does.
Hillary 08; Nobama

After Rev Wright, Bittergate, 57 states, Afghanistan gaffe, Sweetie women act, BO is a big liability. No matter how much the black community stumps for him.
He is not qualified to the highest post of the country. He is just a screw ball.
Vote for the ALL American Hillary. To answer the 92% of black votes, we need to give 100% to tell them they are wrong to vote by race.
Line up behind the president who brings changes to this country. The president and Hillary are using their money to give us warning that could crush this country: a wimp to be president.
All American Hillary 08.

Forgot the popular-vote argument of Obama. If FL and MI were counted, Clinton beat him hands-down.

Dennisp-
Wrong–she didn’t beat him “handsdown” in the popular vote. Actually I think it is about 5000 votes and that is giving him ZERO in MI. Hard to believe not one single person in MI wouldn’t have voted for him.
Also the caucus states have not been counted in the total. The popular vote argument is BOGUS.

Posted by Jim,
“While I have sympathy for the voters in Michigan and Florida, I feel their just anger is headed in the wrong direction.
Citizens in both states should not be angry at the DNC. The DNC created primary guidelines that everyone agreed to abide by, including the Democrat leaders in MI and FL. If the voters in these states lose their primary votes, its not the fault of the DNC, but instead the fault of the individual Democrat leaders in those two states who decided they could ‘break the rules.’ If I were a resident of either state, I would vote out any and all Democrat leaders who voted to move the primaries before February 5th.
Bill Clinton is trying to play this off as a fault of the entire democrat leadership, when quite actually, the leadership of these two states is solely to blame.
The Clintons are now a danger to the Democratic party and are trying to place a wedge in it. Funny since Hillary also voted for the February primaries.
They broke the rules. They pay the price. Nobody can take away their votes in November, and that is the utmost importance.”
Excellent post. It is Spot on!

Bill Clinton is auditioning for Jon Stewart’s next Douche-Off.

If it is Obama who won Michigan and
Florida, and he is lagging behind,
you can be sure he will be pushing
hard for those votes to be counted.
So don’t be hypocrites – Obama
isn’t above dirty politics himself.
He would not have gotten his seat in
the Illinois Senate and US senate
had he not played fast and loose.
Between now and November, evidence
will be presented to implicate
Obama as a significant player in
the Rezko/Auchi/Levine corruption
scandal undergoing investigation.

I agree with Bill – count all the votes. I don’t care why they were disenfranchised, they just need to count. Why are all the democrats running to protect Obama? What is going on here? It is getting creepy.
I too will be leaving the democratic party after they force Hillary out. Obama has, among other things, been so disrespectful of the only good democratic president the U.S. has had in what 30 years or more. And his supporters are unbelievably rude and crude about the Clintons.

MarkieBee,– you definitely talking or writing like a brainwashed person. I graduated in Law at the University of Chicago were Obama was a guest lecture professor. I like the majority of the student never ever saw him as the “brilliant” leader the media or the cult followers are seeing him now. There is not a single Law document written by Obama that is worth to even study. He knows how to write “Audacity of Hope” tho.
Grassroots from Obama only, dream on. You forgot that politicians endorse and share listings, if Obama loses his listing goes somewhere else for the most part. LOL
For you to say he doesn’t need the Clintons? is like to say he would be where he is now just by his own merits or achievements! nonsense! He is where he is know because of Major Daley, Kerry, Blogojevich, Daschle, Soros and the same Democrat machine!
In other words Markie, wake up or get a life!

The votes from MI and FL should be counted in some fashion. However, these states did break the rules, and if the states are not punished in some way, the primaries could become complete chaos now and in the future. As far as questioning Obama’s motives, Hillary and Bill’s concerns are also quite suspect. Hillary’s campaign did not care a wit about MI and FL until they fell behind and needed something (anything) to catch up to Obama. Admit it, both campaigns are playing politics with these states, and the DNC needs to remedy the situation with MI and FL that is fair to both candidates and fair to both states.

tracy – Inexperience of Obama as opposed to Clinton’s experience are legitimate issues to question Obama, but the other issues you listed is total BS. Especially since Hillary and Bill are guilty of all the things you accuse Obama of (arrogance, race baiting, whining (oh I am a woman and all the people claiming I should get out of the race are being sexist because they don’t want a woman in the race – if that’s not whining, what is?))

I used to believe in the Democratic Party for their standing for fairness, justice, and equality. But I was very disappointed and disillusioned throughout this primary season. I’m sick and tired of the hypocrisy and bullying behavior the DNC, OB and his supporters demonstrated toward Hillary.
I’m not going to support DNC anymore and will never vote for OB – he’s cheated and bullied Hillary in this race.

This is a very fair assessment of this situation. Of course, there are probably a lot of Republican trolls here who will completely ignore this point and continue spouting their talking points.
I pledge to support whoever is selected as the Democratic nominee.
—————————
The votes from MI and FL should be counted in some fashion. However, these states did break the rules, and if the states are not punished in some way, the primaries could become complete chaos now and in the future. As far as questioning Obama’s motives, Hillary and Bill’s concerns are also quite suspect. Hillary’s campaign did not care a wit about MI and FL until they fell behind and needed something (anything) to catch up to Obama. Admit it, both campaigns are playing politics with these states, and the DNC needs to remedy the situation with MI and FL that is fair to both candidates and fair to both states.

Obama is a loose cannon! Hillary has the Power of the People! When everyone has voted it will be obvious that the only candidate capable of winning a GE is Hillary

Boneheaded: (apt handle BTW)
Why would you possibly imagine that you have a better handle on Florida politics than a Florida native who has been politically active–on both sides of the aisle–for years?
With record foreclosures, property devaluation, skyrocketing taxes and the constant threat of devastating hurricanes, you can bet your ass Floridians went to the polls to address a tax referendum. Pull your head out of your undoubtably voluminous pizza and beer-filled derriere, face the facts and admit that the red hots have taken their toll.
Sorry for the big words. Elitist, you know.

The problem for Florida, from what I’ve gathered from multiple news outlets, involved the state’s republican controlled legislature, and the machinated agenda that resulted in the disenfranchisement of millions of Florida voters.
Later, when a re-vote in both Michigan and Florida was approved by their respective state leaders and paid for without using tax dollars, Senator Obama declined. Like millions of other Americans, I believe his refusal to provide these important states a voice in the nomination of our Democratic presidential candidate, initiated the fracture of our Democratic party.
Senator Obama’s repudiation of the aforementioned revote afforded his campaign an unfair advantage, with delegates from only 48 states counted and seated at the convention. Since senator Obama refused a revote, delegates from both states need to be seated proportionate to the primary electoral votes.
Virtually all of my Florida-residing friends and relatives have indicated that because they feel betrayed by the Democratic Party (they believe the DNC didn’t champion their cause), they will not cast their votes for the Democrat in November. The consequence for this primary process debacle is the probable loss of millions of liberal, moderate, and conservative democrats, who will vote in force for McCain if their voices continue to be silenced.
For many lifelong Democrats, our loyalty to democratic ideology is deeply held. However, unless each and every vote is counted, and delegates from both Florida and Michigan are seated fairly, many of us will have to seriously consider whether or not the Democratic Party is loyal to us.

How rude and divisive for John Edwards to endorse Sen. Obama on the day after West Virginia primary? Then in the same breath talk about “party unity.” This is very typical of Obama campaign. Take about some high ideals for America and then take a real “low road!” This the “new politics” that he’s promising us? But I have to tell you if our now “presumptive nominee” Sen. Barack Obama is going to be the “real” Democratic nominee, sadly, another “George McGovern” fate tragically awaits the Democratic Party. It’s heartbreaking to watch the DNC self-destruct and its super-delegates squandering the distinct advantage it has to re-gain the White House in 08. But don’t be surprised; knowing the fact that DNC which houses the longest list of losers of any organization in America! The impending Democratic presidential loss to John McCain has to be blame on the same old politicians who have never won president elections calling the shots for DNC: Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Tom Daschle, Bill Bradley, John Edwards, Bill Richardson, Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi and as you know many of them ran for president and lost! They are all supporting Sen. Obama. They are playing the same old loser’s game. That game is called the “idealism” game. These democrats have a penchant for being indulged in idealism, just like Barack Obama. As you know idealists like George McGovern never made it Washington. And of them are examples of such idealist losers. All this has happened before. They all said they are going throw the bums out and clean up Washington. But they all lost to the Republicans. And when you look at what happened at the Democratic primaries in Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and in many other states, and especially when you look at the 41 point victory of Sen. Hillary Clinton over the “presumptive nominee” in West Virginia, isn’t it obvious Sen. Obama can’t win; he doesn’t have the support of women, so called “Reagan Democrats” or working class white voters, rural voters, labor union households, Latinos, you know in spite of the media spin and promotion Sen. Obama is no more better than another George McGovern or Mike Dukakis! We all know that Black American and city liberals never won presidential elections for democrats. Sen. Obama had successfully maneuvered himself to be the front runner, with a help of zealots in caucuses states to get most of his delegate numbers. No matter how many congressional seats they win in the fall 2008 election if the Democrats fail to win the White House, the situation that we have right now─ with President Bush vetoing everything is not going to change. The unfortunate thing for the Democratic Party in this election cycle is that they have a presidential candidate who really can’t win. Remember, just before the general election in 2004, Massachusetts judge sanctified gay-marriage, which galvanized the conservation vote resulting in John Kerry’s defeat and George Bush narrow win. Just the same way now that California Supreme Court decision allow gay-marriage would surly bring lost of social-conservatives to 2008 polls and ensure the defeat of Barack Obama, just as it happened before. The Democratic party it known for its capacity for “Snatching the defeat out of the jaws of victory.” Sen. Obama can’t even change the defeatist dynamic of his own party and how can he propose to save America from its continuing decline?

Emily,
Obama is in favor of a fair seating of the Florida and Michigan delegates and was in favor of a fair revote. The only problem was that the Clintons and the State Party honchos were proposing a revote that disenfranchised many of the voters who would be inclined to vote for Obama.
With an agreement that the nomination won’t be unfairly taken from him, he will even acquiesce to an unfair division of the Florida and Michigan delegates to see them seated.
All,
I am disappointed at the tone and personal nature of many of the comments. I really hope that Obama and McCain do return to some old fashion campaigning to allow everyone to decide between them on their merits. However, I am not sure that an independent campaign by Hillary will have the result that some of these commenters seem to expect. Many of her comments, such as “obliterate Iran,” make me thing she is more Republican / Bush than Democrat. Besides, she will have trouble raising money for such a campaign.

I simply cannot believe that many of the people posting here who claim to be Hillary Clinton’s supports actually are who they claim to be.
I believe with all my heart that Mrs. Clinton’s real supporters are far smarter (and way more civil) than these diatribes here appear. These are clearly Republican shills. (And they seem desperate to inject more conflict.)
No clear-thinking Democrat would vote for 100 years in Iraq, would they?

Barack Obama is acting just like George Bush did against Al Gore in 2000.
There is only ONE reason Obama doesn’t want the votes counted, and that’s because he loses.
Think about it:
Barack Obama refuses to hear the voices of the people in MI and FL, simply because the people didn’t vote for HIM.
Just what we need… Another Presidential candidate who doesn’t care to hear the voices of the people when the people vote for someone else.
Please, we need the voice of experience for President in these times, just like we needed Al Gore for President in 2000.
COUNT THE VOTES.

Floridians like to point out that it was the Republicans that pushed their primary date up, but that is only half-true. The Democratic leaders in Florida were on board with it as well. The interviews with the Dems in Florida confirmed that.
Neither Florida nor Michigan should be considered for the primaries unless it is a 50/50 split so as not determine who the Democratic nominee is. The rest of the country played by the rules. Florida and Michigan will have another chance in November at the General Election.
We cannot continue to reward bad behavior and Clinton cannot be allowed to cheat her way back to the White House. Rigged elections are a Republican thing — something that should never be an option for the Democratic party. Don’t turn the Democratic party into the Republican party just because Clinton has sold out.
Please write to the DNC every chance you get to let them know what you think about changing the rules in the middle of the race.
Obama 08!

Bill is working hard for that third, illegal, term. He should have stayed as a retired statesman, and retained some dignity.

All votes should be counted; this is a country BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, ONE NATION UNDER GOD.
SENIOR AGE 64

to the obamaniacs:
The only things anyone knows about Obama is the self hype of his two semi-autographical NOVELS!
Since then, we’ve found him to be two-faced, (Jeremiah, two speeches, one thumbs up, one thumbs down).
Sexist,(“typical white woman,”sweetie”)
Short on facts: (57 states, the Great lakes in Oregon?).
His universal healthcare is at least 15,000,000 shy,
He is unable to speak in public without benefit of a teleprompter,
And he is prone to use the race card.
When I see Obama, I see a man who looks like the “what-me worry?” character in Mad Magazine…. only he’s green!
Be careful who you’re voting for!
We already HAVE a Bozo in the white house!
As for me, I’ll stick with someone who can bring workable solutions to this sad state of affairs.
Hillary Clinton!!!!!
Why would you vote for such an inexperienced braggart at a time when our economy is tanking,
to the obamaniacs:
The only things anyone knows about Obama is the self hype of his two semi-autographical NOVELS!
Since then, we’ve found him to be two-faced, (Jeremiah, two speeches, one thumbs up, one thumbs down).
Sexist,(“typical white woman,”sweetie”)
Short on facts: (57 states, the Great lakes in Oregon?).
His universal healthcare is at least 15,000,000 shy,
He is unable to speak in public without benefit of a teleprompter,
And he is prone to use the race card.
When I see Obama, I see a man who looks like the “what-me worry?” character in Mad Magazine…. only he’s green!
Be careful who you’re voting for!
We already HAVE a Bozo in the white house!
As for me, I’ll stick with someone who can bring workable solutions to this sad state of affairs.
Hillary Clinton!!!!!
Why would you vote for such an inexperienced braggart at a time when our economy is tanking,

It doesn’t matter what the RBC does now, they’ve already lost my vote. They lost it when Obama spoiled the revote and the DNC didn’t solve this before May 31, when Obama will be crowned. They will agree to seat just enough delegates to ensure Obama is the nominee and then seat them all in August when Obama makes a “magnamanous” request to include everyone. That’s too phoney to work. And no, I’m not a Republican in disguise. I’ve contributed thousands of dollars and volunteered thousands of hours for Democrats. This Michigan voter is going to the dark side in November. Actions have consequences. Obama and Dean be damned!

Counting the votes of unfair elections is called “rigging.” Corrupt elections are not what America is about.
If the leaders of the states of Florida and Michigan were that concerned about their Democratic primaries they would have held re-votes according to rules. Then they would have been free and fair elections, and could have been counted.
We cannot allow our elections to be corrupted by a small minority of whiners. If you really care, whine to your state leaders. They’re the only ones who can fix it.

on Bill Clinton …who can blame him ? …the AA turn their backs on him after they crown him as their first “black” american president…go Bill…if anything you owe to yourself.

Florida and Michigan were not the only states that violated the delegate selction process timing rules
The law clearly states:
A. No meetings, caucuses, conventions or primaries which constitute the first determining stage in the presidential nomination process (the date of the primary in primary states, and the date of the first tier caucus in caucus states) may be held prior to the first Tuesday in February or after the second Tuesday in June in the calendar year of the national convention. Provided, however, that the Iowa precinct caucuses may be held no earlier than 22 days before the first Tuesday in February; that the Nevada first-tier caucuses may be held no earlier than 17 days before the first Tuesday in February; that the New Hampshire primary may be held no earlier than 14 days before the first Tuesday in February; and that the South Carolina primary may be held no earlier than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February. In no instance may a state which scheduled delegate selection procedures on or between the first Tuesday in February and the second Tuesday in June 1984 move out of compliance with the provisions of this rule.
You can check that here:
http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/democratic1.download.akamai.com/8082/pdfs/2008delegateselectionrules.pdf
That being the case Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina all violated this rule. Why are Florida and Michigan the only two states to be punished for it?
That being the case Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina all violated this rule. Why are Florida and Michigan the only two states to be punished for it?
Regardless, under the DNC rules, the Florida and Michigan primaries clearly count, and they are entitled to have 50% of their delegates seated at the convention as allocated by their state primaries. However, given that Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina were not penalized at all, the equitable options are to strip 50% of Iowa’s, New Hampshire’s and South Carolina’s delegates, or Florida and Michigan should not lose any, just as the other three states were not penalized. It’s not only fair and just, it’s simply following the rules.
All states should be treated equally when voting, one state should not get waivers others do not. Are they saying that some states are worth more than others? That’s what it sounds like to me.

Ran in front locomotive, which arrived late.