More on Clinton’s Popular Vote Claim

More proof of anti-Clinton media bias:
That Oregon crowd of 70,000 that (supposedly) turned out for an Obama speech?
It turns out the crowd was drawn by a free concert given by the popular Oregon based band The Decemberists , whose last two albums, including The Crane Wife, received 4 and a half stars out of a possible 5 from Rolling Stone Magazine. And the weather was an unseasonable 80 degrees and sunny.
But 70,000 people turning out to hear an Obama speech made much better copy, so that is the story that was reported around the world.

This is getting ridiculous! To accept this absurdity would be to count Michigan without allocating one single vote for Senator Obama. I don’t think any rational person or even semi-rational person believes that of the 238,168 Michigan voters that voted for “uncommitted”, including tens of thousands of black voters, none were voting in effect for Senator Obama. By the most conservative estimates, at least 50% of the “uncommitted” vote was for Senator Obama, which means that Senator Obama would still be leading by 66,788 without the 4 caucus states that do not release popular vote totals.
The rules are the rules! And the rules established by the DNC and that which all candidates agreed clearly states that delegates, NOT popular votes, determine the nominee.

Stephen you crack me up dude, bands open up for politicians all the time. They warm up the crowd for the MAIN EVENT. Thats like saying, the reason so many people showed up to Beatles concerts were because of the opening band. Beleive me they were there to see BOTH the band and Obama.

It is not hard to understand. The media and Obama keep going back to the pledged delegate majority–which is nowwere in the DNC rules.
Either one cantidate has reached the majic number or not. At this point is is not, and it will be not by August 25.
At that point the supers must decide, not based on any set criteria but based on whatever they want to consider.
Clinton is free to argue that she won the popular vote so she should get the nomination. Obama is free to argue that the one with a bare majority of the pledged delegates should win.
Neither argumument is correct, unless the supers say it is.
MY BOTTON LINE: What does the pledged delegate count do as a reflection of the “will of the voters” that the popular vote does not do better?h

Stephen…thanks for the update on the free rock concert…should’ve known. They sure failed to mention that on CNN, MSNBC, CNBC and even on FOX, my favorite news source. Too bad it wasn’t a typical rainy day in Oregon, turnout would have been much different.

They will perpetrate this farce and we will revolt.
Obama is not electable, we are NEVER going to vote for him.
The DNC is the worst bunch of keystone kops. A pitiful joke on DEMS, I am so ashamed of them.
John McCain should publicly thank them for electing him president, ASP!!!

You may not want to count me but I voted for Clinton. We all in Florida had the same opportunity to vote and many of us took it serious.

again
so Hillary wins the popular vote when Obama’s name isn’t on the ballot.
yeah that’s right but unfortunately…the little thing is the supers aren’t stupid…so I think they won’t back up a plurality in people choosing Obama or hillary…when Obama wasn’t one of the choices …
what an honorable campaign sheis running… not.
Years from now that is what her campaign will be known forand that it will be funny because of the sheer manipulation that they tried to pull.

HP Boston I think the people running hillaries campaign own the honorary “keystone cop” reference.

I want to know from the people in FL and MI who seem to be mad about their votes not being counted, why did you NOT STAND UP and yell when they took it from you. Why have you waited tell Hillary started claiming it?
If I was upset about it, I would have called my Governor and let him know. AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED.

topher
you are right but I think only Hillary supporters think some unknown band can draw numbers the size of a superbowl half time show…
but they also think Hillary “won” the popular vote…
she did win some “beauty contests” though a perk from being the dems “first lady” for 15 years.

And I say with all the drama the democrats have if they don’t figure out a way to seat Michigan and Florida they can all kiss the white house goodbye in November. It is as simple as that. The republicans will swift boat how they have excluded 2 states from the United States of America

So…if you include a reasonable estimate for MI – they’re virtually tied. The Obama campaign blocked revotes in FL and MI so we’ll never know for sure how big Clinton’s lead would have been.
Obama started strong and is finishing weak. Clinton started weak and is finishing strong. So – if the popular vote is tied (the popular vote IMO being the voice of the people), the superdelegates should go with the stronger candidate to beat McCain. That’s Hillary Clinton!

What have we learned from this year’s primary races?
1. It’s not necessarily a good thing to fight to be first on the ballot. Even without the whole MI/FL question, some of those early states who were hardly noticed would have played a much bigger role in early June — California, for example, which would likely be favoring Obama if the vote were today.
2. DON’T take your name off the ballot anywhere, especially if you’re running against a Clinton!
3. Don’t run your campaign assuming you are going to take the nomination by Super Tuesday. The big money you spend early on is going to come back to bite you as the campaign drags on into May and June and you find yourself deeply in debt.
4. Find a campaign message and stick to it. If your campaign can’t find its voice, it won’t get the votes!
5. If you have people around you who might be campaign liabilities, deal with them early on. Don’t wait for them to hit You-Tube or Faux News.
Obama 2008 — Yes, WE CAN!!!

why you guys want to twist facts, all candidates agreed in chorus to disregard florida and michigan why all of sudden it is resurfacing, let’s think about our daily hardhips and not give an easy pass to mc cain. Let the superdelegates decide, plain and simple

So the Mine Workers Association just endorsed Obama.
Senator Obama will fight to preserve American jobs, not ship them overseas in greater and greater numbers,” Roberts said. “Senator Obama will make sure that the nation’s mine safety and health enforcement agency actually enforces the law, instead of coddling mine operators who repeatedly and willfully violate the law.”
The Mine Workers union represents 105,000 active and retired coal miners, mine construction workers, public service employees, health care workers and manufacturing workers in the United States and Canada.
WELCOME ABOARD! PA, WV AND THE OTHER STATES!

Barbara Boxer is an undecided super who is in love with BO and related to Hillary, I believe. I heard that last night on one of the news channels. Wierd. My husband is a Republican and he believes the GOP has “something”, tape, audio, whatever that they will drop in October at just the right time. I actually think something else will implode before then….how long can you tie up Wright, Michell, granny, Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson (noticed how they’ve been underground lately). Really, is the good Rev supposed to stay locked up until Nov.? I don’t see Michelle backing down from the stage anytime soon either.

The media and the DNC can do whatever they want to try and make us vote for their “god” but the simple fact is: Thay CAN NOT make us vote for obama instead of Hillary. We have a vote to revolt with and we WILL use it. They deserve to see their special pick trounced soundly in in GE and sit and cry as they watch John McCain sworn in as President of the United States. At least he is American enough to mean the pledge when he takes it.

Fae…he may be the only soldier I have heard say he wants MCain…OMG…I guess he wants to die or be maimed for life…or stay there for the next 10 years. In all the interviews I have seen of the tropps, almost 90% say they are voting Obama and if not Obama it is Hillary. At least the troops have sense enough to go with the Dems.

Fae,
Maybe if Clinton would stop paying so much money to her internet warriors by launching internet smear campaigns against Obama and everyone who supports him, they would not be 31 Million dollars in debt.
I ask you, Do we really need a President with no sense of fiscal responsibility who would dribe this country further in debt like her sinking campaign?
I sure hope that wasn’t a sexist statement :(

Ron…you are so right. HRC was SO far ahead of Obama and everyone else when she started. Now she looks like a joke! A first term Senator has knocked the wind our of her….Yeeezz Hillary, stop whinning!

There is NO POPULAR VOTE for caucus states so this is NOT A TRUE COMPARISON.
Thank you.
Obama ’08/’12

Debra,
Hillary is NO CENTRIST. She is just as liberal as they come.
BUt, I am willing to listen: Show me how Obama is more liberal than Clinton.

Becky, you may want to check out your own candidate, who has given out more money to Super Delegates as well as handed out tons of street money in the primaries and caucuses to get people out to vote. Of course the MSM doesn’t want to cover this
Talk about buying a candidacy!

Yes Fae…it is almost over and Hillary knows it. She cannot win…the numbers aren’t there. Bill…well Babba is Babba…he is who he is…enough said…he was a good President though..until……

Obama will most certainly lose the popular vote in the primary season, yet get the nomination. He could even go on to win the popular vote in November, but could well lose the electoral college and the Presidency. I find it bizarre that in the last 2 months Clinton has won more (critical) states and garnered more popular votes, yet the DNC, Media and pundits keep clamoring that his nomination is inevitable. Despite his ability to gather huge crowds in metropolitan areas, he is a weakening candidate. He doesn’t “close the deal” with Democratic voters because he can’t. While Hillary is doing better and better, he is effectively stagnant. Yet the Super Delegates and Party Big Wigs continue to flock to his side, propping him up despite flagging support in many states. Why is Obama so appealing to the Party–is it the money he raises, his rock star messianic appeal to young voters, or the Black core constituency he commands? The DNC has chosen to go with the youth and Black vote, disrespecting and disregarding the rest of us who don’t think Obama is the best candidate. So be it.

DemsUnited….he’s so liberal that he wants to sit with our enemies, sit in a church pew with hate filled rhetoric for 20 years, and earn the title of THE MOST LIBERAL SENATOR EVER, as proclaimed by the media, day in and day out. He’s out of touch with mainstream America and is unelectable with a majority of Americans.

Fae…don’t blame the caucuses on Obama. Hillary just thought she had it wrapped up, so she didn’t learn how to compete in the caucuses. Her mistake. You want to win, learn how to play the game.STOP WHINNING….

Well Leslie…I hope you are rich, have no kids and have a gas pump in your yard. We will be in Iraq for 10 more years( 8000 more live), unable to buy gas and have no jobs or homes…Anyone who wants the same ole crap is an idiot…oh course I am just presuming you are…

Clinton supporter urge Hilary to run as an Inpependent for president , if she not win the Dem selection

If Hillary is the stronger candidate, as she claims she is, then why did she get blown out in Oregon? If she is such a strong candidate, why can’t she close the deal? If she is such an experienced candidate why is she $30 million in debt? If she would make the best president, why did she run such a bad campaign?

Eileenfrom Maine….and just how does he get this country going in a better direction, aside from yelling “hope and change”. He is a 3 yr. Senator who has only been in the Senate working 145 days. How is this magic going to happen, unless he becomes the MOST ADVISOR DRIVEN PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME, with seasoned pros ready to prop him up when he isn’t reading teleprompter speeches? C’mon…we’re hiring an employee and looking at experience. He didn’t even show up for one meeting on the commitee the he chaired in the Senate. He voted “present” 130 times and even Edwards reamed him at a debate about that. He’s a puppy and not ready.

Hillary is drowning and grasping at every straw she can find !!!
Onlookers can see clearly that straws can not save a drowning person.
She cannot see that because she’s lost her commonsense to desperation.

Fae…wake up…last week the news announced the tape was a fake. Stop spreading false statements This is a typical HRC ploy. YOu cannot find anything on the guy,so attack his wife and kids with flase statement.

We have to stop having caucuses. They are easily manipulated and a lot of people with families and jobs don’t have the possibility to show up.
If the primary is not worth the money it costs maybe the DNC just should name the nominee. They try to do it anyway. The whole complicated math is ridiculous, if we are democrats we should go by one person, one vote and no superdelegates.

duhhhh Stephen,
the band was hired to play by the campaign as introductory entertainment.

I agree with S….McCain is much more a Democrat than Obama which is why he will win in Nov. He appeals to more of us Dems/Independents. The right wing of his party is not thrilled with him being not conservative enough….but where are they gonna go? Obama? NOT!

Hillary the shill.
She`s an elephant in a donkey suit

If Hillary can’t manage the finances of her campaign, how can she possibly manage the economy?

All of you self-professed democrats need to get a grip. If you have any allegiance to your party, ideology and your view and desire of where this country ought to be, you will not vote for someone who offers the diametrically opposite (or stay home…an implicit vote for someone you have next to nothing in common).
Forget the war, economy, health care. The most consequential thing at stake in this election is the federal judiciary. A minimum of two Supreme Court justices will be gone within the next five years. Do you know what the balance is right now on most decisions of any importance? 5-4, conservative. McCain’s only way to hold on to elements of the Right and turn them out in November is to promise justices in the mold of Alito, Scalia, and Thomas. So think for a second what a 7-2 court made up of justices of this ideology would offer. You guys do realize it takes a “rule of 4″ for the Sup Ct. to agree to hear a case, right? But might not even get that far if the Trial and Appellate Courts are stacked.
Hillary Clinton famously stated that there is next to no difference between her and Obama on policy, but that she should be elected because she is more experienced. If you Dems support McCain–implicitly or explicitly–it will show not only that are you succumbing to the same “cult of personality” insult you guys threw at Obama and his supporters, but it will also indicate that you don’t give a damn for your party, yourself, and the future of your country.

Come on…
The networks, especially ABC, seem locked into making sure that this thing seems like a race, even though the rest of the field, the spectators and the concessionaires have all packed up and headed for the REAL race.
Hillary is so far out in “spin land” with her claim of a lead in popular vote, that she has now passed even GW in the denial championships.
It is over. The DNC is just letting her play this out so she has nothing to say of merit when it is convention time. But, it is obvious to everyone that they will not let this go beyond June 3rd.
If anyone really cares for her, they will point her to her a nice place to lay down and recover from the obvious bender she has been on for the past month.
The party will unify. Obama will win, with or without the extremist voters from her camp or the racists in the Rust Belt.

To all Obama supporters,
Stop begging these Clinton supporters for their vote in November. The Hillary supporters that say they will go to Mccain are either closet republicans masquerading as Democrats, or are just trying to rain on our parade because Obama is winning this thing.
Well, I suggest WE ALL just ignore them as if they weren’t here. I just read here
that Mccain is looking for internet trolss for the blogs. It seems as though many have already signed up. Just ignore them.
I am not speaking about all Hillary supporters. Just the ones who claim they will vote for McCain.
Obama will win the general Election. He is ahead in the polls and as this campaign continue, all of MCCain’s hidden demons will be brought to light. So, ignore them. They will just get angrier and angrier until they implode.

TP
Why should democrats get a grip?
If McCain better represents their feelings than Obama, why shouldn’t they switch? After all, the party has abandoned them. Hasn’t it?

yoYo
Why should Hillary capitulate? To support opinionated critics like yourself? Why should anyone unify with such a people who have such an attitude?

Calli,
If Hillary is a strong candidate, why is she losing? Your argument that she is stronger because states comprised of elderly White people with big racial demons will not vote for the black candidate does not hold water. We do not live in the United “Swing” States of AMerica. We do not live in the United States of “West Virgina and kentucky) We live ib the United States of America. And they voted overwhelmingly for Obama!!!!
Contests won for Obama = 33
Contests won for Clinton = 18
Winner OBAMA!! SO much for your strong Candidate.
BTW,
List of Obama landslides…
Idaho 82.2% 17.8%
Hawaii 76.2% 23.8%
District of Columbia 75.8% 24.2%
Alaska 74.6% 25.4%
Kansas 74.2% 25.8%
Washington 68.4% 31.6%
Georgia 68.1% 31.9%
South Carolina 67.6% 32.4%
Minnesota 67.4% 32.6%
Colorado 67.3% 32.7%
Illinois 66.3% 33.7%
Virginia 64.2% 35.8%
North Dakota 62.6% 37.4%
Mississippi 62.2% 37.8%
Maryland 61.9% 38.1%
Wyoming 61.9% 38.1%
Louisiana 61.7% 38.3%
Vermont 60.6% 39.4%

Obama: “Great sermon Reverend. Unfortunately, I fell asleep and missed it.”

Why does Hillary refuse to play by the rules she signed on to in January? How can she expect the Democratic Committee to penalize Obama for ABIDING BY THE RULES and act now as if what they decided earlier had no meaning? This is what Hillary and Bill Clinton want. I can’t beleive they can sponsor such egregious unfairness AFTER THE FACT! And why do the media sometimes act is if they have a point? THERE’S NO WAY the Democratic Committee can take the nomination way from the candidate who played by the rules and got the majority of dlegates in keeping with the party’s principles for nomination. Why can’t Clinton backers persuade their candidate to face the truth? Does fairness mean anything?!!!

S,
Clinton in 1996: “General, you told me there’d be more sniper fire for my 16 year old daughter to see!!! You are incompetent.”
See, two can play that game.

So glad I’m not a party loyalist. I’m a registered Republican who voted Hillary and will happily support McCain. THAT’S WHAT’S GREAT ABOUT THIS COUNTRY….FREEDOM. TO CHOSE WHO YOU LIKE. That’s what it comes down to people. No one will twist anyone’s arm or argue to death why they should vote for who they’re supporting. We go in the booth, pull the curtain, pull the lever for who we LIKE. This isn’t rocket science. I just think Americans will LIKE McCain more than Obama in Nov.

I believe that Hillary should be allowed to count her imaginary friends.

If the people supporting hillary are so prone to lies and manipulation as they seem to be, we would definitely lose the whitehouse in november because the republicans and independents aren’t just magically believe all these fantastical claims because Hillary or her supporters say so.
For instance, the two states that are being contested, it was known before hand and WIDELY REPORTED THROUGHOUT THE MEDIA AND AGREED UPON BY BOTH BARAK AND HILLARY, that neither state was going to count. It doesn’t matter how many times you say you were under sniper fire in Bosnia or that those states were taken away as part of an Evil Man(TM) plot because they voted Hillary, it just is not true by any logical measure.
Michigan didn’t even have Obama’s name on the ballot, because he didn’t see the point of being on the ballot since the state wouldn’t count. If the people in those states wanted their votes to count so badly, they should have spoken up and stopped their state leadership from violating the rules that everyone agreed to. Instead, they did not, and now Hillary is going to try to save them from themselves for noble and selfless reasons. Bah.
How can you be president, the chief rule enforcer in our country, when you can’t even abide by the rules yourself? How can the American people trust you to keep your word, when in obviously desperate acts of self preservation, you just arbitrarily decide that that which you agreed to you no longer have to agree to it?
Those are not the signs of a candidate who can change the haughty above-the-law attitudes we’ve had coming from the Whitehouse for the last 8 years, but rather, those are the signs of someone who won’t think twice about engaging in them herself. We don’t need that crap anymore. That’s the change most are expecting from Obama and that’s the change his record justifies believing he can deliver. Hillary isn’t going to change anything but the name of the party occupying the whitehouse. oh yeah, and we’ll be prosecuted if we don’t start giving insurance companies protection money for “health care”.

Policy reasons this Hillary supporter is voting for McCain
1) I do not support legalizing marijuana or ending the “war on drugs”
2) I am pro-choice not pro-infantcide–if an abortion fails (using RU-486 or through a surgical procedure) I believe doctors should be required to rather than prohibited from providing medical care to the newborn child
3) I own a handgun and do not believe they should be banned and I certainly don’t believe the US should comply with the UN Milenium standards.
4) universal healthcare will have to come from Congress — not the President
5) even McCain plans on ending the war in Iraq, the only difference is he plans on keeping bases in Iraq instead of stationing our soldiers in Kuwait
I think what many liberal democrats don’t realize is that when you take out the option in the middle people have to move to either the left or the right. Reagan democrats have always shown a tendency to move to the right–hence their name. We are willing to give up certain rights, if necessary, in order to avoid doing something we find unconscionable.
Obama showed the people of KY (and for that matter WV) that he will not work with people who do not support him. All McCain has to do is demonstrate he will not ignore Kentuckians and West Virgians and he will carry those states. Record turnouts should demonstrate that in this election every vote is going to count but Obama and his supporters seem unwilling to acknowledge that.
Unfotunately for Obama, the US has an aging population. Except in a handful of states, there just aren’t enough blacks, college kids, and people who make over 50K a year to win the election for him. Democrats in general are banking on the thought that a “refrigerator” could win this election so they don’t have to move to the center. You would think the primaries would have shown them otherwise but they continue to steam forward based on the math rather than the will of the people, especially post-Jeremiah Wright. Of course, if the electoral college stays the same and John McCain wins handily, then they can claim racism is the reason they lost this election. Look how they have already vilified the people in WV and KY because they aren’t liberal democrats. Plus they’ll have a UN report to back it up.
No, I guess I am not a democrat. I suppose I am a populist. That may be one of the new political parties that come out of this disasterous election.
Hillary or McCain ’08

Thus, as you have shown the popular vote argument is just one more Clinton campaign lie. So though it is not about popular votes, Obama is leading in popular votes also– unless you count Michigan a state where he wasn’t on the ballot, and a state where polls show him with a large lead over Clinton. She is 31 million in the hole, and has lost by delegates, popular vote and by state oh and people dislike her more.

TP..I was sort of compromising my beliefs when I voted Hillary, because I know she can’t get troops home in 3 months and although I like the “idea” of universal healthcare, pushing that through would be unbeliveably difficult, and I was willing to take a little increase in taxes (although disagree with that in this economy). I just feel she would work her a– off, and I liked Bill and it wouldn’t be so bad to have him for pillowtalk at 3:00 AM. I love a good sale and 2 for 1 sounded OK to me too.
But, looks like I’ll be voting Republican this time around.

To all Hillary Supporters that will vote for McCain (except for Debra, who has just admitted to being a republican):
Why is McCain better than Obama, but not better than Clinton? Someone please enlighten me…
Why does
Clinton (D, female, white) > McCain (R male, white) > Obama (D, Male, Black) ????

Obama is unelectable because he has failed to win a single state that the Dems must win in November.
Hillary has won ALL of these must win states along with the swing states like West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio and Penn.
and Florida. Therefore, Hillary is the most electable candidate. Hillary won all of the must win states by wide margins. The margins grow in every state that is a must win.

S,
And as far as the party “abandoning them” (I assume you mean Hillary supporters), I am not quite sure what you mean. Are you saying because Obama will win the nomination based on the metric that the DNC uses to select nominees–delegates–that the Dem party has abandoned Clinton supporters?
The Al Gore comparison in the Clinton arguments is quite disingenuous (along with the claim that she is winning the popular vote). I never had a problem with Al Gore losing the election based on winning the pop vote and losing the electoral college. Why? Those are the rules. Everyone knows it before they sign up to play. If one wants to change it, by all means one should feel free. But we have a general principle in this country concerning ex-post facto. While a party nomination process is not dictated by the constitution, most would agree that in fairness to all involved and for the preservation of order in the future, rules must be followed.
Answer me this: would Hillary Clinton be fighting for MI and FL if she had sewn up the nomination in February? My guess is no, considering she stated that “it is obvious that FL and MI will not count,” in concert with quotes such as, “delegates elect.”

Hillary has my general election Florida write in vote no matter how many delagates Barry has.

Sen. Robert Byrd “endorsed” Obama because his biggest campaign contributer is MoveOn who gave him more than $80,000, and they endorsed Obama. Follow the money trail and you will find answers to your questions.

Those folks who said that this is a race for the delegates convenient fail to mention the critical fact that the delegates were designed to reflect the people’s votes. That is the true intent of the system.
Clearly, an election reform is needed to reflect this true intent and to deal with close contests such as this one or Gore’s 2000.
Every time, a candidate who won the popular votes but loose the nomination, the people tend to view it as ‘unfair’ and ‘illegitimate win’. Bush’s 2000 win is still looked upon as an unfair decision.
Democrats have been bitter about Gore’s loss, but now are consciously doing the same thing to Clinton, Florida and Michigan’s voters.
Democrats will loose this election, the one that is supposed to be a walk in the park. But then, it seems that the record of nominating loosers seem to be the trend of the party.

I am still trying to understand why if Obama is so unelectable, he is the preferred democrat against Hillary among democrats in every national poll available? Why has he, and is continuing to raise more money than any other Presidential candidate in the history of America in a way no one has done before?
Can someone enlighten me?

I hope all of you who want Hilary to quit teach that same principle to your children. This is a contest. She has every right to fight to the very end, which, by the way, is what a convention is for. To now proclaim that she has to speak nicely about her opponent is rubbish. Of course, as you have probably noticed, the media which could not use up enough ink or web space to denouce her has not changed tactics and behaves as if she simply does not exist, even though voters keep choosing her. If Obama were such a sure deal, why is anybody voting for Clinton? Because there are millions who like here, that’s why, and that’s their right to do so. I say, let them fight it out. I don’t hear anybody criticizing Teddy for splitting the party in ’80. All you hear is brain cancer Teddy and how we owe it to him to pick Obama as if on his deathbed the last words he’ll speak will be Obama. Face it, even if Obama does become the nominee, he certainly has not garnered a mandate but that point notwithstanding, Clinton shows that she is willing to fight for the nomination whereas Obama has pretty much had it handed to him. I like that about her.

My God, if there is one thing the Democrats need to come away with this primaray season is to look at the Republicans for their nominating process. This system sucks and the Republicans are just laughing at Democrats now and probably late into summer.

According to all the wise people here, they think that all the poor people and low middle class folk will vote against their strong financial interests in a time of recession, and vote for the Republican. And I say, why? Because their mad? Nonsense, these two groups always votes their pocketbook, unless they are in love with their particular candidate (like Reagan, Bush, maybe even Obama). McCain is neither. He is not someone you politically love- not even remotely. He can’t even motivate the Repubs much less the dems. We will all come together and vote our pocketbooks in the end as usual, casting our vote with the person most likely to look out for our interests, and for a lot of us, that means Obama. Get over it.

To Stephen who knows about concerts on the river in Portland, Oregon (Say Will Lamb Ut with emphasis equal on all three) … the people who wanted to hear Obama had to wait all day and go through the security check. Except the ones on the river and across the river. Since the jillion pixels have already traveled around the world thanks to NY Times, your correction may not take. Tell me, how many people usually come to the free concerts? Speaking to you from Springfield.

This is a fight for the heart and soul of the Democratic party.
The Democratic party cannot stand for voter disenfranchisement, sexism, racism and classism. The Dems failure to denounce the media and Obama and his campaign regarding rampant exploitation of these serious issues is at their own peril. We will not forget and the party will pay if they fail to nominate Hillary Clinton who we feel is the most incredible, most qualified, most electable candidate the Dems have had in our lifetimes.
The Democratic party cannot put forth another loser candidate propped up by the old guard,ultra liberal, loser elites of the party. They don’t win general elections.
The Clintons are the greatest political success story of the Democratic party since FDR and Eleanor Roosevelt. Bill Clinton is the ONLY Dem Pres to be re-elected since FDR! The Clintons are winners because they are centrists, the only Dems who can win. Bill Clinton won both West Virginia and Kentucky twice and Hillary can win them too.
Obama’s lame attempts to denigrate a former President of his own party lost our votes a long time ago.
Hillary Clinton (and Bill Clinton) deserve respect and we intend to give it to them.

jlynn,
You wrote exactly how I feel. I don’t own a gun but the rest is true. When I was younger, I was more to the left. But as I got older, my views became more conservative. My views are more centrist. The Reagan Democrats will go back to the Republican side in November. I believe that after the convention, we will have to decide who would be a better president. Who has more experience when it comes to national security, and other issues. I’m so upset about how this election has been run that it has left me disillusioned. It’s not all Hillary’s fault. I think the men advising her on some issues were bad. Even her husband didn’t help. I feel she is a better person than what people make her out to be. I’m sitting this one out on election day.

V4B,
I agree that reform is necessary. But it has to be balanced so that smaller states do not get completely overlooked.
I say keep the electoral college (won’t have to amend the constitution, which small states would not allow anyway), but make it proportional to each state’s popular vote, giving the winner the state’s two bonus (the ones that represent the US senators) electoral votes
Example: State X has 12 electoral votes. Bob wins 60% and Jane wins 40%. Jane gets 4 electoral votes and Bob gets 8 (six from the vote, and two for winning the state).
This is surely an equitable solution to the archaic process we currently employ. Under this model, small states retain their influence through the electoral college, but bigger states do not have millions of people who are essentially voiceless in presidential elections.

Never Obama,
I don’t understand, if many people who voted for Obama want to change their votes, why does he have a double digit lead over Clinton amongst democrats?

Obama is not anti War in Iraq. Since arriving in the U.S. Senate, NOT ONCE has Obama taken to the floor of Senate to speak out against the war in Iraq, NOT ONCE has Obama introduced ANY anti-war in Iraq legislation.
Obama’s voting record in the Senate is identical to Hillary Clinton’s on War in Iraq. In fact, Obama spoke out in 2004 saying he felt “Bush had done the right thing” in invading Iraq.
Remember, friends, this is Bush/Cheney’s war in Iraq, they bought it and THEY own it. The war is NOT the Democrats fault and certainly NOT Hillary Clinton’s fault.
The fact remains that MoveOn is the biggest contributor to Sen. Robert Byrd at over $80,000, & they endorsed Obama.

Jan…Obama will raise our taxes to give out $4,000 grants to each of his college supporters. Do you even get what raising taxes will do to a depressed economy? McCain will not raise taxes with his socialist plans, as Obama would. Maybe his billionaire liberal backers can pay my share.

How exactly can Obama unite the country when he can’t even unite the Democratic party?

Lois…don’t sit this election out in Nov. I’m in Calif. too and will be voting McCain. I voted Hillary 2/5, but will be working in McCain offices come Sept. A no vote is allowing BO to have a better chance at getting near the WH.

Fae: 1:52:48 PM:
“Talk about your almighty caucus! They were all rigged. My nephew went and the Obama people had him tear a piece of paper and put in an old cereal bowl. He said they didn’t ask for an ID or a thing. He said it was just a huge joke. They even have videos of people writing name after name and throwing it in.”
newera 1:55:18 PM:
“Don’t blame the caucuses on Obama. Hillary just thought she had it wrapped up, so she didn’t learn how to compete in the caucuses. Her mistake. You want to win, learn how to play the game.”
This isn’t the first time I’ve heard an Obama supporter praise him for his ability to beat the system. And the Obama supporters are now hollering that Hillary doesn’t want to play by the rules?

HoosierSue, I couldn’t personally give a rats right buttock if Obama united the country. There’s a lot of people I would REALLY RATHER NOT unite with. I want a president who will (to quote an old phrase) “Let Right be Done.” Obama knows right from wrong. The train is leaving. Get on or get left.

Why does Hilary continue to distort the truth. Last night she constantly stated that she was ahead in popular vote. Because she is still counting MI,FL and ignore the true turn out in all the Caucuses. Hilary you are killing me, each day I lose more respect for you,and I voted for you, in the earlier elections before your turned into Pinocchio.

Some people have apparently never learned that politics makes strange bedfellows, thus they don’t understand the strange mix that is propelling Obama.
But strange alliances run both ways.
For proof positive, see analysis of the exit polling on Nov. 5, 2008, the day after John McCain has just been elected POTUS.

Hoosier,
I’m sorry, but i am missing your point. So if someone learns and exploits the rules of chess, football, basketball (how ’bout them Hoosiers?), etc, they are somehow being underhanded or not playing fair? To me, it seems that an understanding and preparation for the game and execution, within the rules, is indicative of perseverance, hard-work, talent and expertise. I would surely admire this and deem it more indicative of qualities than someone who simply plays but does not prepare or understand.

John & Kate,
Keep “Clinging” to that hope. You want to talk about Soros?
Let’s talk about billionaire Saban Haim who has been trying to Bully the DNC into supporting Clinton.
He offered 1 Million dollars to young democrats in exchange for their support, which they rightly rejected.
See, I have proof of my claims.
Furthermore, MSNBC and ABC and everyone else have pretty much said that Obama is the nominee. Hillary can NOT catch him in delegates. Also, the Super Delegates will not allow this fight to go to convention. Sorry. They will all rally around Obama before that happens. The SUper Delegates will wrap this up long before convention time. Obama will be the nominee. Get used to it.

Question: when Obama leaves those 80,000 troops in Iraq will you feel he played fair with your votes or will you cry that he deceived you in order to be elected?
Lesson: if you defend the way Obama won the caucases, then you can’t whine when you learn how he won your vote.

There is sucker born every minute.
The Obama supporters have been suckered into believing the drivel he’s spouted about “hope” “inspiration” and the best one “seeking our better angels”. LOL.
Get real. Obama is a total corporate tool who is NOT anti-War. Obama swims in the dirty, toxic, sewer of Chicago politics with his pals Mayor Daley, Rezko, Bill Ayers (who should be in prison for his bombing crimes had the FBI not bungled his case) who Obama worked for 8 years on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.
Obama is BAD news for this nation. Reject him.

Simple truth, Senator Clinton would be ahead if all votes were counted. Senator Obama STOPPED the revote in Michigan. I will not vote for someone who refuses to count all the votes.
SENATOR OBAMA NEEDS TO GO BACK TO HIS CORRUPT CHICAGO DISTTRICT. HE IS NOT FIT FOR ANY OFFICE.

HoosierSue – Can you name a female senator from New York who didn’t vote to authorize the war in Iraq?
I can name one who did.

geevil,
Yawwwn,
in 2004 John Kerry was 12 points ahead in GE polls around this time. We all know how that turned out.
In Spring of 1992, Bush Sr. had an electoral lead in the polls over Bill “Slick Willie” Clinton. We all know how that turned out.
Before Iowa, Clinton had a 20 point lead in the national polls
Before Iowa, Clinton had the majority of support from the African American community almost 2-1,
2 weeks before Texas, Clinton had a 20 point lead in the polls there. Obama walked away with more delegates won.
Fact: Almost every state Obama has campaigned in has gotten him more votes and even a “come fom behind” victory.
Point being: GE Polls are useless this early in the game.

Look up William Ayers, Obama’s cousin Raila Odinga, a radical muslim leader in Kenya, Africa who tried to oust the democratically elected govt there and Odinga is in favor of Sharia law on women (look that up it will shock you), Auchi, Khalidi, Rezko. We would like to know why Obama has connections to all of these criminals.

After you check out Raila Odinga and his Sharia law plan we’d like to know if you still believe that Obama would be good for “women” in this nation.

duh…..go way back in your mind to the atmosphere the year or two after 9/11 and remember the feeling in this country. The Senate voted to go into Iraq and explore…look for weapons. No one planned this kind of thing and hindsight is 20/20, but you do the best that you can at the time. Americans don’t even have the war in the top catagory of what’s most important now. We all know it’s going to be complicated getting out and NO ONE has the magic date. Americans are way more concerned with economy…it will always be #1, which is why NO INCREASE IN TAXES McCAIN will WIN IN NOV.

Mandy,
Proof?

John, Kate, and Mandy -
You make solid points. I sure wish I could change my vote for Clinton – who has absolutely no history of corruption, lying, cheating, or manipulating.
On an un-related note, anyone have any insight on cattle futures?

MoveOn switched side and decided to finish with the Clintons. Dean who was a pro-DLC (Democratic Leadership Council) governor became spokerman of the outsiders side ( the activists and liberal left) with MoveOn starting something new to finish with the legacy of Clinton and their candidate is BO. For information you may find out something to reflect on by reading Matt Bai “Mrs Triangulation” on his site. Also theCityedition is quite informative.

I am a true Hillary supporter who has donated to her campaign…everytime she has a win. And you are deluded if you think the youth/black/liberal/radical voting block out numbers a Hillary or McCain voting block. And a Presidency can’t be bought or BO would have a good chance. Republicans will pull it all together (many very wealthy and competitive against BO’s billionaire liberals)and they will rally round McCain big time. Everyone is just sitting back for now and waching the most fascinating Democratic run in history.

Hillary for the love of God please leave the Democratic Party, they are nothting but a bunch of crooked good old boys.I cannot believe that I have voted for them for 22 year, but now I see and I’m out. Take your 17 million votes and go independent

How many of you have looked up the names of Tony Rezko, Nadhmi Auchi, and Bill Ayers on the Internet and realy researched Obama’s relationship for the past 20 years with these men? You have to be smart enough to research, not just on page one of the Internet pages, but pages 2, 3. 4. It takes some time, but enough Chicago reporters have written enough about Obama that you begin to see how much Obama has absorbed from these crooks and anti- American people. I challenge you to do your research; you Obama lovers don’t have the courage. Afterwards, like me you could not vote for Obama. He is dangerous for our country.

I admit that Obama will not win the General Election against McCain. With the Ayers, Auchi, Wright and Michelle Obama problems.
Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean are smart. They see Obama as a cash cow who can pump money into the Senate and House races in the fall. They know Obama is DOA but the chance to increase to a larger majority in the House and Senate is worth it. All of President McCain’s vetos can be overturned.
It is always about cold hard cash. The same reason Obama is paying bloggers like me to win back Hillary supporters.
We know woman and working class voters ARE the Democratic party and that there are mor Hispanics than Blacks in the country.
I get paid. You get lied to. What does it matter?

Peggy Green,
The best coverage on Obama/Auchi/Rezko is by the London Times. Online version is timesonline. Just put in Auchi and Rezko. You really get the flavor.

DemsUnited…Obama is pandering to college kids in giving them $4,000 grants for college…sure, we’re all going to pay for that.

Obama broke the DNC “rules” in Florida by running radio ads as well.
Hillary broke NO DNC “rules” in Florida.
Hillary won more than a million votes in Florida, more than twice as many as Obama.
Hillary could win Florida in November and Obama cannot.
Hillary has won ALL of the must win and swing states that the Dems MUST in November. Obama has won NONE of these states. Hillary won all of them by WIDE margins.
Hillary is clearly the better candidate, the more qualified and more electable candidate. The Dems would be very foolish to nominate an unqualified and unelectable candidate in Obama.
The Dems MUST count the votes in Florida and Michigan. They cannot have a legitimate nominee with them and cannot win without them in November.
Hillary has won the popular vote. Last night, in two states Hillary won more than 200,000 MORE votes than Obama. Hillary continues to improve in every voting category. Obama is in big trouble, losing votes in every voting group.
Hillary MUST stay in this race through the convention where she can prevail. No delegates are really “pledged” to anyone. ALL of them can vote for whomever they feel is most electable. That person is and will be Hillary Clinton.
It’s Hillary or McCain for us. We simply do not like or trust Obama. (and we don’t like or trust GEorge Soros either).
Country first, party second.
Rock on Hillary! You are on a roll!

But John & Kate, Hillary signed a pledge.

Debra,
That is not pandering to the College Kids. Clinton has a similar plan, except it is 3000 dollars.
Look it up.

Sue
I know Obama has no plan for Iraq.
In the Cleveland debate he would not commit to removing troops within one year. His foreign policy adviser stated 18-20 months and basically said nothing was certain.
In the same debate, Obama also said he would put troops back in Iraq if Al Qaeda returned. Obama goofed and McCain caught him on it. Al Qaeda is already there.
Obama also knows McCain does not want a 100 year war. Obama knows McCain was referring to maintaining a force like we have in South Korea and Japan. But it is easier to scare people and twist the truth.
“Hope” and “Change” are slogans. You can attach your own meaning to those terms. Why get specific?

debbie cho,
The pledge was solely a promise not to CAMPAIGN in the states that violated the DNC calendar.
Here is the pledge:
Four State Pledge Letter 2008
Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina
August 31, 2007
WHEREAS, Over a year ago, the Democratic National Committee established a
2008 nominating calendar;
WHEREAS, this calendar honors the racial, ethnic, economic and geographic
diversity of our party and our country;
WHEREAS, the DNC also honored the traditional role of retail politics early in the
nominating process, to insure that money alone will not determine our
presidential nominee;
WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and
the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the
nominating calendar.
THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge
I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential
election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa,
Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as “campaigning” is defined by
rules and regulations of the DNC.
___________________________ __________
John/Jane Doe, Doe for President DATE
OBAMA VIOLATED THE PLEDGE IN BOTH MI AND FL

Strangely how most everybody keeps sayin BO needs Hillary supporters. I don’t think he does. All he needs are Democrats, not some Gops in sheepskin! And you don’t hear from time to time BO supporter say they will vote John McCain in nov! Wake up, even a 7 year old can tell something’s afoot here.

you keep forgetting Obama did not campaign in either of the 2 states. If he had the she would have not won so big. He decided to save the money and use it for the main campaign and thats agains mccane. everwhere he went and campaigned she did not win so big. he was closing her penn vote and if it had been another week down the road he owuld have passed her. i am from kentucky and the people who voted for her is a bunch of hillbillys who cling to guns and religion. i know cause i am from there. she never won the big cities of louisville or lexington. she clams to win the big stuff well she did not win the bigg stuff in ky. only the country folks who most dont even work.

The question was on recent contests – PA and onward since Rev. Wright came to light – and the fact that Hillary is on the upswing while Obama is sinking.
The DNC sees it for what it is. But rest assured, they’ll almost certainly do the wrong thing and put the weaker candidate forward to prove how all-encompassing a party they are. In other words, they’ll put race above electability.

countallthevotes – don’t you find it odd that she signed the pledge even though it states in black and white:
“WHEREAS, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar.”
Why didn’t she protest with “count EVERY vote” then?
Oh – wait a minute!! Wasn’t she ahead then?
I find her “count the vote” scheme pretty transparent.

and she won from the republician cross over vote trying to keep this going to smear the demorctate front runner more. what was there 182,000 vote for mccain and 800,000 for the demorcrates hummm i have news for you there is more than 182,000 republicians in the state of kentucky. the rest voted for hillary to keep this mess going and you are to stupid to see it. or should i say just dont want to take loosing.

This is silly math and it does not bear out into any semblance of victory for Hillary. Convoluted methods of tallying the popular vote amounts to stealing the win away from Obama. That creates the same problems on the side of Obama supporters.

most of these whiny hillary supporters aren’t even democrats – thats why they can so easily threaten with a vote for mccain.

Don’t you find it odd that she signed the pledge even though it states in black and white:
“WHEREAS, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar.”
Why didn’t she protest with “count EVERY vote” then?
Oh – wait a minute!! Wasn’t she ahead then?
I find her “count the vote” scheme pretty transparent.

KY has a closed primary so Republicans wouldn’t have been immediately able to switch over to vote for either Clinton or Obama.
I can tell you that in Indiana (which is open) I had more Republicans telling me they were voting for Obama because they thought he’d be easier to beat than told me they were voting for Clinton due to Operation Chaos.

I would like to thank the DNC for taking away my voting rights. The DNC has freed me, I am enlightened. Now that all the caucuskids have spoken, I can see that they know best, who needs one person, one vote anymore. I now see that change you can believe in, is more important than actual democracy. I would like to thank them for overturning the popular vote in Texas. Didn’t our fearless leader Mr. Dean say that actual votes don’t elect presidents.

Hoosier
Your last comment was completely off the wall. It only serves to validate the belief that Clinton gets the racist vote. I’m not a Clinton supporter, but I’m quite certain she would denounce what you said and not want you campaigning for her with that nonsense.
Go ahead and vote against your own best interest if you want. You’ll only hurt yourself, and the women you claim to support, in the end.

Julia,
Girl, you said it all!!

Obama is no dummy. Chicago taught him well.
Obama established HopeFund which gave between 4,000 – 9,000 to superdelegates who were running for office.
Surprise. Surprise. They endorse Obama.
At the start of the primary, Obama said supers should follow how their states voted and when he was only winning small states he reminded them about the money.
Look at Byrd from West Virginia. Moveon.org donated 80,000 to Byrd. Hillary wind WV and Byrd endorsed Obama.
Look up HopeFund and follow the money!
Your one vote doesn’t and never did matter

duh
That’s where you are very wrong. WE WILL be missed,the Dems cannot win without us. That’s the point, duh.
The Democrats would be wise to remember that for decades women have been the majority voting block of the Democratic party and women want Hillary. It’s that simple. When women vote, Democrats win. Women decide EVERY election. Deal with it.

The fact remains that neither Hillary or Obama will have won anything until the DNC convention in August. That’s when the nominee will be chosen.
No amount of corporate owned media proclamations will change this fact.

You’re assuming all women who support Hillary will vote McCain.

Insulting people will not win them to your side.
We happen to be Dem voters who are in the top tax brackets. We happen to be Dem voters with professional degrees. Democrats have been known to vote against their own economic self interests on all sides of the spectrum.
We happen to think that people who live in trailors are just as good and just as smart as we are. They just haven’t been given the life breaks we have or make different life choices.
That’s why we are Democrats. We believe that we are all in this together. That’s why we feel so strongly that we are fighting for the heart and soul of the Democratic party.
We believe that all workers are “working class”. We don’t like labels. That’s why we feel so strongly that the Democratic party must denounce the sexism, classism, racism and voter disenfranchisement practiced by Obama, his campaign and supporters.
Taylor Marsh is a great site. We highly recommend it. Taylor is a wise woman and a great Democrat.

Most of those who side with BO or HRC forget that they both received their training in the land of Chicago politics.
Hillary with her Midwestern work ethic and Obama with his ability to organize self-interest groups. No wonder the national Democratic vote was nearly 50% for either candidate.
Too bad the Republicans were allowed to mix up the numbers in several states. Especially since they have no desire to vote for either in the fall election.
It really is up to the superdelegates to forge ahead and appoint a nominee.

I think McCain is going to get the Gov of FL as his running mate….so Dems won’t win FL probably…can’t wait for McCain to battle BO through Nov.

Obama talked to 50,000 Floridians today and never mentioned that they must be seated. He’s just ignoring his loss there and trying to re-campaign.

Scary Barry and Manic Michelle gonna run ’08 OH NOEZ!

What part of the 1990′s didn’t you like the PEACE OR THE PROSPERITY? WE LOVED BOTH! WE LOVED THE GREAT ECONOMY, MADE MONEY, LIVED IN PEACE. WOW. IT WAS GREAT.
Bill Clinton left a SURPLUS, yes, the Democratic President left a huge surplus which Bush has squandered.
Bill Clinton was a great President.
Hillary Clinton will be an even BETTER President.

The following excerpts are from Deroy Murdock’ column of March 18, 2008.
America’s chief domestic priority this year is to prevent Hillary Rodham Clinton’s election as president. Beyond her dreadful ideas, she shares her husband’s allergy to the rule of law and the basic standards of fairness and honesty most people expect of them selves. Instead, the Clintons do whatever it takes to accomplish whatever they want. If normal conduct or even federal statutes interfere, they smash right through them.
Hillary turned a $1,000 cattle-futures investment into a $99,540 bovine bonanza in conjunction with Tyson Foods’ counsel, James Blair and her REFCO agent, Red Bone. After she collected her 9,954% return on investment, Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton’s administration secured Tyson at least $9 million in state loans and special permission to dump chicken waste into local rivers.
As first lady, Hillary concocted her notorious healthcare nationalization scheme with a public/private task force behind closed doors, violating 1972 federal open-meeting laws.
After White House Deputy Counsel Vincent Foster died from a gunshot wound to the head in Fort Marcy Park near Washington in July 1993, his office should have remained sealed for forensic purposes. Yet two day later, “After speaking with the first lady, I arranged for the (Clintons’ personal financial records in Fosters office) to be temporary kept in a locked closet in the White House residence,” Maggie Williams-Hillary’s then-chief of staff and current campaign manager-told the Senate Whitewater Committee on January 26, 1995.
Note: Since Deroy Murdock’ column of March 18, 2008 Hilary has released her tax forms and has loaned her campaign over 11 million dollars.
WELL ALL YOU CLINTONITES, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF YOUR HEROS BILL & HIL NOW?

Hillary’s tax returns were made public in April 2008. Check your facts.

countallthevotes, I agree with you about Hillary and Florida. She’s very strong there. If Crist isn’t McCain’s running mate I still think it will go to McCain although it would be close.

I notice the numbers you give don’t allocate any Michigan votes to Obama. Obama, Richardson, Edwards and Biden all took their names off of the MI ballot. So does that mean the 238,168 people that voted uncommitted in the MI primary don’t count?
I think she should stay in the race but saying she can still win it, spouting lies about the popular vote, and blaming the media and sexism for her loss are damaging unity within the Democratic party.
See RealClearPolitics for popular vote totals.

Sen Clinton believes that she is the one standing up for FL and MI voters. She may be unable to admit to herself that she previously said that these votes would not count and said nothing to change this until after the votes would help her. Like the Bosnia story, if Sen Clinton really wishes something was true, she seems to convince herself that it is true. After 8 years of Bush, it would be frightening to elect another individual with such a loose grip on reality.

Mike–Pay attention. It’s your sputtering, uhhh, hero, uhhh, that’s, uhhh, sucking up to Clinton and her supporters. Believe me, he cares if we vote for McCain. He needs Clinton’s voters to win. If you don’t get that, you know nothing about politics. He’ll really need the votes when Wright gets cooking again and Michelle spouts off about some elitist nonsense. The sad part is that Obama will get Clinton’s voters because McCain is completely unacceptable though much more sincere than the guy who could “no more denounce Reverend Wright than he could his own grandmother.” Give me a break.

Dawn, Obama took his own name off the Michigan ballot to better position himself in Iowa. If you remove yourself from the race why do you think you should still get a prize? There were no rules that he had to remove his name.

Danielle:
That’s completely dishonest. Obama taking his name off the ballot in Michigan had NOTHING to do with Iowa.
Obama came off the Michigan ballot – just like Edwards, Dodd and Gravel – because of the pledge that ALL Democratic candidates signed with the DNC and the four approved “early” states in the primary process.
The agreement specifically stated that the candidate signing would not campaign OR PARTICIPATE in any unapproved early primary or caucus. (Yes, Clinton signed it too – and even told NPR New Hampshire’s Laura Knoy that “it’s clear this primary [Michigan is] having won’t count for anything.”)

It’s the Obama people that do not understand the rules. The super delegates were not created to bless the outcome of the primary season. They were created to have the courage to vote based on the electability of the candidates. The ones that have made an endorsement can change their minds. It’s not likely. I’m sure the Obama fan club can sleep well knowing he has won the nomination but there is no doubt that they never understood this basic rule and they were never willing to abide by it. All we’ve heard over the last three months is how the super delegates can’t overturn the pledged delegate count. Whine whine whine without any understanding of the super delegates with their backroom cigar smoke.

I am a staunch Democrat. I will vote for a Democrat in November. I will write in the name “Hillary Rodham Clinton” mainly because I can’t get behind a candidate like Obama that has such hateful supporters. I don’t care if McCain wins–at least we know a little something about him. We know nothing about Obama except he supported his preacher before he didn’t support him and his wife is proud for the first time and that he goes to closed door meetings with his fellow elitists and bad-mouths working people. I hope Clinton supporters will join me in sending a message to Move-On, MSNBC and all the co-conspirators that stole this election for Obama. Bitter? You bet!!

How often will Hillary and her supporters persist with the “winning the popular vote” myth. You people want the voters of Florida to be counted, and Hillary’s own supporters in Michigan, but you don’t want the votes of hundreds of thousands of people whose States held a caucus to count. Nor those people who wanted to vote for Obama in Michigan. You would rather we forgot that barely a few hundred people in each of the caucus States are counted in the figures you claim represent the will of the American people. Neither do you care that not one single Obama supporter in Michigan was able to register their vote for him. You are trying to deprive all of those people of their democratic right to support their candidate because he respected the views of the National Democratic Party and left his name off the ballot.
Stop this misrepresentation of the facts now. Stop it because it smacks of being a bad loser. Even the most blinkered and embittered Hillary fan should be able to see that for the popular vote to truly count you have to count the votes of everyone. No matter which nominee they wanted to vote for. Every person who wants to vote has to be able to do so and each and every vote must carry equal weight. The only way this could happen is if we repoll Michigan and count the hundreds of thousands of voters who wanted to place an X next to Barack Obama. Then repoll every single caucus State and turn the hundreds of votes in each into the hundreds of thousands that would have voted in a primary. But if that happened then the figures point to Obama extending his lead still further. Something that would blow the popular vote myth to pieces. Something that would consign Hillary to the political dustbin because her last chance to be Vice President would be destroyed.
What no side should do is to use every trick in the book to exclude ordinary working people in the States that they lost whilst including those in the States they won. Neither should you reward those States who illegally held a primary early – while at the same time punishing those States that held a Caucus. Florida and Michigan broke the rules. The caucus States did not. Had the “popular vote” been the measure at the start then every single caucus State would have held a Primary. You can’t change the rules at the end and punish those States. And for anyone who tries to do that. Shame on you. In fact shame on anybody who quotes the “popular vote” myth because its the only thing you have left. A twisted, statistically unfair, highly politicized version of the true facts.
The saving grace of course is that the people who now need to be convinced of the “popular vote” myth are the Super Delegates. People who are experienced politicians who know full well that the claim is a false measure of what the American people are saying. The ardent and blinkered fans who often frequent these internet chat threads may be convinced of the myth, but its not so easy to convince the only people who can actually save Hillary now. If anyone can spot a lie when they see it – its a politician. And they are already indicating they aren’t listening to this claim.
As for the other claim, that the media is sexist, now that really annoys me. It sets back the woman’s movement by years when a woman uses the sexism card to justify their own failings. I have no doubt that some people will not vote for Hillary because she is a woman, and some will not want her to win because she is a woman, but there are just as many people who will not vote for Obama or want him to win because he is black. However these people are in the minority. Is anyone really suggesting that there are so many sexist Americans that they could have turned around the huge lead Hillary possessed at the start of this campaign. Or saying that the American people are so dumb they simply vote for the person the media tells them to vote for? If so why did these same people indicate they were going to vote for Hillary just a year ago? How can Hillary have so little confidence in the integrity and decency of the people she hopes to serve as President? Remember this time last year she was the clear front-runner. She had almost won the race before it began. Yet somehow she threw it away. That isn’t the media’s fault. It isn’t Barack Obama’s fault. It is her fault. President Truman had a sign on his desk that famously said “The Buck Stops Here”. As President the winner in November will have to live by that motto. Every decision they make. Every policy they endorse. Every act will define the lives of millions of people. And if and when it all goes wrong they can’t turn around and blame someone else. They have to take responsibility. Just as Hillary has to start taking responsibility for snatching defeat from the jaws of certain victory. Otherwise how could we ever be sure she wouldn’t pull the same trick every time the press disagreed with her policies?
Women all over America may feel let down. However when history look back on the last few months it will show they were let down not by white men, or by blacks, or by the media – they were let down by the ill-conceived and astonishing incompetence of Hillary Clinton and her advisers. They lost a race that was there to be won. A race that was almost impossible to lose. No amount of complaining about how “unfair” it was will change that fact.
SMB

The mistakes made by HC campaign were their underestimating of the left wing conspiracy which includes Dean, the pro-Democratic Leadership Council governor who switched side to discredit her, as he is now chairman of DNC and spokerman of MoveOn.Org.
I got information from the Cityedition.com that the republicans started their usual discrediting of HC from the very beginning, all the vocabulary used “pandering”, “polarizing”, “power-hungered” etc…which was taken up by the left-wing side as projections of all the negative on HC as a character, a politician etc…
In this case it’s like using the enemy’s weapon to defeat your closest enemy, your running opponent, except they are from the same party. The republicans largely crossed lines to vote for BO in the caucuses. And later even when it was signalled to cross over to vote for HC many republicans did it except that they voted for BO. Those voters are called oneday democrats.
Now are these votes real enough to be reliable in November? The caucuses exclude a lot of voters because of the voting conditions, that’s to say the people who work or don’t have much mobility. And the numbers of voters are small in caucuses, yet the difference in the popular vote even if small allow a difference of delegates that is mathematically disproportionate.
In Michigan it was said that he removed his name because he deducted that he would get anyway little support there.
The real math should be what votes are reliable in November, and who is more likely to get them. The real issue at hand is to get the White House back to the Democratic party. It looks like Dean and the left wing trying to show that they can do well without HC and Bill legacy.
So their strategy was largely helped by the republicans, in pushing the anti-Clinton machine through press coverage and the republican crossing line votes. That’s why they push hard to get HC to step out. Now not all superdelegates have had their say yet. And for them winning is the most important factor.
BO electability based on the caucuses votes can be very questionable. And how can one establish electability in terms of math, realistic math and not one that is manipulated by republican cross over line voting, without taken into account big states votes like Florida’s and Michigan’s.
That’s why HC want to take this matter to the convention. So if the DNC rules help BO for the moment, they may not help him in November. Besides, for the moment his support fails completely among white working class and white blue collar workers and among the majority of women voters.
The figures as calmely and rationally studied will speak for themselves. So all of this, and the upcoming votes in 3 more states, will add and will be examined carefully for the superdelegates to decide.
HC supporters don’t accept her being pushed to step out and they wait to see the unfolding of the process and reserve their decisions for casting their votes in November. Don’t buy the skin of the bear before you have it. That’s a wise saying I heard.
And beside, why should she be wrong when Ted Kennedy brought the matter to the convention while he was about 700 delegates behind, as I read it from many sources. Should she be wrong because she is HC ?

To Sharen,
don’t you know that JFKennedy had many affairs in the White House. His wife suffered in silence and the staff around avoided the subject?
History books now only talk about how he handled the cuban missile crisis and what have you.
And how many republicans who cried foul supporting the crushing anti-Clinton machine turned out to have affairs themselves?
Can’t you see this is wasting of time and energy and money about some soap-opera affairs while real issues are overlooked?

Jane
When Bill was prez and challanged by Gingrich, Hillary cired “right wing conspiracy” Now Hillary is loosing and the fact that every vote simply anc’t be counted (as she suggests but eliminates the caucus states won by Obama) you decry “Left wing conspiracy”.
There is no conspiracy at work here. For all its failings, this is how the democratic process works. She knew the rules going in. She was riding on hopes of super delate votes when she saw her lead shrinking, now she has formulated a mathematical calcultion by which she wins using some of the popular vote. The problem is she says she wants every vote counted, but her math does not do that. It must be a Hillary campaign conspiracy

The popular vote total is the votes cast by individuals in state primaries. Caucus votes don’t count in the popular vote total because they are counted in terms of delegates, not votes, and many states don’t count the number of people attending caucuses. How is Hillary accounting for that? She wants to count Michigan where she was the only candidate, and Florida where many voters stayed home, but not the nine caucus states? That’s her idea of counting every vote?
Caucus state include (Obama won all of them) Washington and Texas caucuses (also won by Obama) not included because these states hold primaries AND caucuses
• Iowa
• Alaska
• Colorado
• Idaho
• Kansas
• Minnesota
• N Dakota
• Nebraska

Clinton, Obama offer lengthy interviews to the St. Pete Times:
Clinton is pressed on why she didn’t object to the delegate decision earlier, and is told some state Democrats initially supported moving the primary date.
Responds: “That’s not my reading, but of course you have more direct information.”
AMAZING!!!
The Dem’s wanted to move the Primary in FL!

Excuse me if a look of bewilderment crosses my face when a surrogate of Sen. Hillary Clinton’s starts off on the “we need hard-working white workers to win in November” mantra.
Roland S. Martin contends the Democratic nominee will need a broad-based coalition to win in November.
The candidate herself has now made that notion the primary — and latest argument — to superdelegates to convince them she’s the best person to beat Sen. John McCain in November.
“I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on,” she told USA Today.
The newspaper quoted her as saying that an Associated Press article showed how Sen. Barack Obama’s support among “working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me.”
Now, I know I’m not one of those voters she’s talking about, but the reality is that hard-working white Americans alone will not put Clinton or Obama in the White House.
Neither will African-Americans alone or young voters, senior citizens, the college-educated, the “no-working” Americans, gays and lesbians, nonreligious voters, veterans, Hispanics, women, etc.
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In fact, Democrats alone won’t do it. You also must take a good portion of independents.
No Democrat can win the White House unless he or she is able to pull from all the various constituencies in the country, and it’s downright silly for the Clinton campaign to assert that idea that hard-working white votes are the only ones that matter.
Sure, the Clinton camp will contend that’s not what it’s saying. But it sure sounds that way (and no, I don’t agree with what’s being said on blogs — that this is playing the “race card”).
Is Clinton suggesting that whites who voted for Obama in Iowa, New Hampshire (where she beat him by around 8,000 votes), Missouri, Iowa, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Washington state, Minnesota and so many other states were phantom voters? Were they not hard-working white voters? Were they only the “eggheads and African-Americans” whom Paul Begala referred to on CNN on election night?
Look, I get spin. And I get that Clinton must figure out some kind of argument that makes sense for the superdelegates to go her way and ignore Obama’s lead among pledged delegates, the popular vote and states won. But when a Democratic candidate continues to ram home this notion that hard-working white Americans somehow are the bedrock foundation of the Democratic Party, it’s just not true.
Clinton wants to make the argument that her white working-class support in Ohio and Pennsylvania — states the Democrats need to win in November — shows she’s the best choice.
But one major failure in Clinton’s argument is the assumption that all the traditional Democratic constituencies will offer her broad support if she’s the nominee. And considering her high negatives, she can’t afford any erosion.
Obama could make the case that she has failed miserably in the primaries in garnering young and African-American voters, and without them, she loses.
Not only that, the Democratic Party has a chance to expand the map beyond the battleground states of Ohio and Pennsylvania. Democrats have a solid shot at winning Iowa, New Mexico, Missouri, Virginia, Colorado, Nevada and New Hampshire. Of those states, Obama won four of the seven, and he had narrow losses in New Mexico and New Hampshire.
Small states? Sure. Winnable? Absolutely. Their electoral votes can be as important as the big states.
If Democrats are serious about winning, they are going to have to put on ice this notion that white working-class voters or any other constituencies are the be-all and end-all in November.
Winning the White House is about building a true broad coalition. You should judge which candidate has been able to do so in the primaries. If it’s Obama, he’s the nominee. If it’s Clinton, then she is.
Such a coalition should be on the mind of every superdelegate — not the debate over which ethnic group reigns supreme at the ballot box.

to Roland S Martin,
You are right, and I insist that this is the fight for nomination but the whole deal is about who is the most viable when it comes to taking back the White House to the Dems. That’s why HC should not be pushed out for many reasons. BO and his supporters try to push her out, HC and her supporters resist, that’s fair politics but stop throwing the negative about her, sound like republican anti-Clinton machine at work.
I came to conclude about left wing conspiracy, after reading Matt Bai informative analysis “Mr Triangulation” and David D. Kirkpatrick’s ‘When Hillary Runs Some Old Foes stand on the Sidelines.” (New york Times webpage on HC). And with theCityedition.com I kind of got the full map of what I read from the press and from supporters. For me it’s important to understand. If you support BO that’s your right. But stop being agressive with people who don’t. This is not addressed to you Roland S. Martin but to some BO supporters.