Clark’s Clunker

Hillary keeps looking better and better as VP choice.

Well, maybe Clark shouldn’t have said it. But it’s true. The macro picture needed to understand risk has nothing to do with being shot down in a plane, and being a POW is not a qualification for being a president. Neither DISQUALIFIES you either. They are just irrelevant. The Republicans suckered us with the Jessica Lynch scenario. All it shows is they have the mind-set of old WW II movies.

He didn’t call his military record into account, all Clark said was that flying a jet and getting shot down, being a prisoner of war, doesn’t really qualify you lead and make decisions on a host of issues not related to combat. He did grant that he might have a greater feel for the people in combat. But that wasn’t evidenced by his vote on the recent GI bill. Also consider he crashed 5 jets. Out of a class of 400 he was 396. 4th from the bottom.
You would have thought Clark spit on the crucifix or something. I happen to agree with what he said.

“The real issue is this,” Dean said in March 2004, when endorsing formal rival Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., “Who would you rather have in charge of the defense of the United States of America, a group of people who never served a day overseas in their life, or a guy who served his country honorably and has three Purple Hearts and a Silver Star on the battlefields of Vietnam?”
McCain, by the way, has been awarded the Silver Star, the Legion of Merit, two Bronze Star Medals, a Purple Heart and the Distinguished Flying Cross.

“McCain, by the way, has been awarded the Silver Star, the Legion of Merit, two Bronze Star Medals, a Purple Heart and the Distinguished Flying Cross.”
But Obama has “street cred”.

Time for Obama to throw Clark under the bus. Next!

did NObama grow up in a free country? one in which he and his disgraceful wife were able to attend some of the world’s most prestigious universities??? and yet, Mrs.NObama is has never felt really proud that country? and they attended a “church” that endorses and perpetuates anti-American rhetoric for 20 YEARS?? and now we have someone inside this campaign offering military advise DEVALUING the Honorable service of this country’s veterans??? GOD HELP AMERICA!

McCain is an elitist. He doesn’t care about the common people. He LOVES giving to the corporate world because his income( or his wife’s) comes from there. Does he know what a budget is, or worry about his next pay check> I think not….

BO’s credit is what he let happen in his Chicago district where he set Rezko up with the public housing that turned into slums & BO did nothing about it. He let those people live in filthy housing & knew aobut. Tell me how that is qualification for bringing up our country from its knees? Pathetic

Clark is my hero for challenging McCain on this issue. After all this is what McCain is has based his whole campaign on. Clark is the one person that can challenge him on this. I do admire McCain’s heroism for his country.but there are a lot of war heroes and POWs does that make them more qualified to be CIC. This has been a spin the GOP has used to boost McCain in war times, is probably why they chose him for the nominee.McCain still lacks good judgement which is maybe more important to many americans,than wearing a uniform or being a POW. He got it wrong on Iraq, and to me is still fighting the Vietnam war in his mind, which is why the american people need more information on McCain’s psychological profile regarding his POW experience. Clark is not saying Obama has more national security experience than McCain,he I think to me is saying McCain becouse of his military service should not be considered to have an advantage when it comes to this issue

Clark’s point was that McCain wasn’t involved in executive or military decision making in respect to his plane being shot down. McCain certainly does deserve respect for enduring as a POW, but logically, that experience has no presidential qualification.

How many “community organizers” are ready to be Commander in Chief?

“Clark’s point was that McCain wasn’t involved in executive or military decision making in respect to his plane being shot down. McCain certainly does deserve respect for enduring as a POW, but logically, that experience has no presidential qualification.”
I think the real point is that he selflessly sacrificed for his country, and is a true patriot versus the MSM product(Obama) that has sought only to further his own selfish ambitions.

No one is questioning his service, just whether that particular experience qualifies someone as POTUS. Not every grunt, every POW automaticaly deserves to be voted in as Commander in Chief. Spare me the false outrage of the ‘swift-boating Right’.

You are deliberately mischaracterizing Clark’s statement.
Of course you are. After aiding and abetting the actual “Swiftboat Liars” against Kerry, all of you folks in the Beltway are now reaching for the smelling salts because someone is daring to question your guy and state the plain truth.
The fact is, McCain’s “experience” makes him fit for nothing than being an experienced prisoner. I for one am singularly unimpressed with him.

“Clark is right that “getting shot down” isn’t a qualification to be president, but McCain isn’t saying that it is.”…………………………McCain may not be saying it, but tons of his supporter are.

The swiftboaters told the truth – no one ever proved they were liars.
So that argument makes no sense.
But nice try.

Poor Wesley Clark. He can kiss any future administration positions goodbye.
Open mouth. Insert foot. It’s what Wesley Clark does best.

sure as hell beats being a community orgainizer in the most corrupt political city in the country.
I’ll take my chances with a war hero over an empty suit.
Although…being married to Michelle might qualify Barry as a war hero…

All Clark was pointing out was that mccain was never in a position to make policy decisions as a soldier he followed orders.

just how many people will fit under the Obama Hope and Change bus?

I wonder if Martin Luther King Jr. would agree with Mr. Obama? I think not… because MLK was a Republican.

Glad to see some people are making this point, but it can’t be made enough.
Clark did NOT ‘call into question, in surprisingly sharp language, Sen. John McCain’s military record.’ He made the valid point that McCain’s record, as admirable as it may be, does not automatically qualify him to be President. This statement does not detract one iota from how brave, admirable or heroic McCain’s service may have been; it simply notes that being a brave and heroic soldier doesn’t automatically make someone a good President.
People can agree or disagree whether Clark’s statement is correct, but only the truly unhinged would read this as a ‘sharp’ attack on ‘McCain’s military record’.
Not surprisingly, the unhinged right and their media enablers are doing just that.

George W. Bush was a fighter pilot too. I guess we shouldn’t question his qualifications to be president either.

Rick Klein: You say that “Clark is right that ‘getting shot down’ isn’t a qualification to be president, but McCain isn’t saying that it is.” Maybe, but *Bob Scheiffer* was saying that it was, and Clark answered him. If you were sitting there with Schieffer and asked how McCain’s war record made him a better presidential candidate and Schieffer replied “Obama never rode in a fighter plane and got shot down,” how would you answer? How *could* you answer except to echo the question and say that riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is not a qualification to be president?

There is a lot of money riding on this new product(Obama) rollout. Lots of people are expecting to get a big return on their investment. They picked the right guy, just ask Rezko.

When asked in 2004 if he’d run for president in 2008, Obama said no because
“I believe that you should know what you’re doing when applying for a job”
Even Obama knows he’s not ready and said so in 2004.
Listen to Obama. Vote for McCain.

TR is on the mark.

Obama is on video at a press conference after he won Illinois senator in 2004 if he would run for president.
He says he would NOT be ready.
It will be playing in campaign ads over and over and over this fall. It’s short and sweet and to the point. And it’s in Obama’s own words.
Count on it! And count on President McCain!

McCain is sure whining a lot about petty little things.

TR, we obsess over Edwards wealth because his platform was that life in America is unfair and the poor can never make it.
McCain doesn’t say that. So your point (as usual) doesn’t work. At all.
Nice try TR, but you lose again.

TR, in case you missed my first point.
Edwards is the one going around saying the system in America is rigged against the poor.
Well, he was “poor” and he made it. So why does he say it’s rigged.
THAT is why everyone talks about Edwards wealth.
Get it? Hope so.

Four years ago, Republicans said John Kerry’s military background didn’t necessarily mean he’s right about national security, and doesn’t necessarily make him qualified to be president. Yesterday, Clark made the same argument about McCain.
Why is Clark’s statement so outrageous?!?

“I think the real point is that he selflessly sacrificed for his country and is a true patriot . . .”
Being a war hero is a restricted definition of a patriot. It can also include challenging political behaviors that run counter the country’s greatness, like an oil industry friendly presidential cabinet misrepresenting the facts, at best, for an invasion. An invasion which has cost thousands of selflessly sacrificed lives of young men and women.
I think the definition of patriotism definitely needs expansion beyond wartime heroism and flag displays. Keep in mind please, I’m not diminishing either.

“questionable sermon? how about UNABASHED UNASHAMED HATE from behind the pulpit?”
________________________________________
Yes how about it? In the past years we have been bombarded by it from those who support the right….. and especially one John McCain chose to stand on a stage with and accept an endorsement. Why is it those on the right never once complain about “HATE” being preached from “behind the pulpit” when it’s coming from Pat Robertson, James Dobson or the like, but let it be someone associated with a Democrat and it’s the most horrible thing that ever happened? HYPOCRICY!!!!!!

Wow. More surrogates sent out to do Obama’s dirty work, and he can stand above it all. How could respectable Clark stoop to this level…he didn’t even stoop so low when he was campaigning as a candidate four years ago.
Who are Obama’s puppet masters, Kerry, Reid….goodness.

Democrats need to learn from their enemies: Here’s the first law of politics from Karl Rove: “Attack your opponents strength from your weakness.” The only way Obama can lose this election is by conceding all national security credentials to the Republicans. Clark said nothing that wasn’t true. He did not question McCain’s patriotism or dishonor the service McCain gave to his country. If Democrats are willing to accept that McCain is well-suited to be Commander-in-Chief, just because his fighter jet was shot down and he spent time as a prisoner of war, they are fools. McCain has never made tactical decisions entailing life or death for American soldiers. He has never managed a military crisis. Clark is not only right, he is the best choice for vice president.

The actual swiftboaters are getting in on this? Talk about gall.

I served with Clark in Kosovo, we did nothing while Clark was at the helm. We captured no war criminals, we went on very few patrols and played a lot of spades. After Clark left and the new General took over, my squad had personaly arrested over 50 wanted serbian war criminal, we returned the homes of nearly 100 Albanian famalies who were evicted by serbian thugs as Americans pulled in country. Clark did the minimum in Kosovo to ensure it would appear sucessful. I have never had a more derelict leader.

BTW, I was offended by what Clark said until I read it in context. He called him a hero, for crying out loud. Why is there outrage?

larryg
obama has never made any tactical decisions either, and he didn’t get shot down in a plane.
so the choice for president is:
shot down in a plane, pow,but no tactical decisions
against
not shot down in a plane, not a pow, and no tactical decisions.
who will be best suited for president?

Barack Obama for President of the UNITED States of America.

“George W. Bush was a fighter pilot too.”
G.W. received National Guard training as a fighter pilot then went AWOL to Alabama to work on a campaign. He was never a fighter. Big diff…
That said, beyond actual combat experience, the leadership training a US Navy officer receives is not insignificant. I’ve no doubt McCain is better prepared for the office.
Obama is smart but experience wise and training wise, Obama has nothing to point to. He is good in front of a camera. Otherwise, legislatively and savvy in the big game, there is no there there.

“Steve” writes: “I was offended by what Clark said until I read it in context. He called him a hero, for crying out loud. Why is there outrage?”
There’s outrage because political columnists sometimes reflect public opinion rather than informing it. Reporters assume there will be outrage and report on the outrage rather than explaining to their readers and listeners why there should be no outrage.

Gen. Clark did not call into question John McCain’s military service–he made quite a point of saying John McCain was a hero and that he honored McCain’s service. All he did was question whether that service amounts to a special qualification for the Presidency. Clark’s comments were perfectly obviously correct. Far from controversial, he was stating an obvious point–there’s nothing about non-executive military service that qualifies anyone (including John McCain) to exercise the duties of the Presidency.
There is no doubt that McCain has been claiming his military experience gives him special qualifications for the Presidency–he’s got a series of campaign ads pointing out his service– and there’s nothing whatever wrong or unfair about questioning whether that military experience in fact makes him more qualified than Barack Obama to exercise the policy, foreign affairs, and executive judgment that a President is called upon to exercise.

How is what Clark said not true? McCain’s service as a fighter pilot and time as a POW in Vietnam is no more relevant to whether he is qualified for or would make a good President than Kerry’s service in Vietnam has to do with his having what it takes to be President. (Or is military service only relevant for Republican candidates?) Likewise, Obama’s lack of military service is no more relevant to his qualifications to be President than many past (both Republican and Democratic) Presidents’ lack of military service was to theirs.
Anyone who makes it to the point of being the Presidential nominee of one of the major parties lacks the qualities to be a good President as far as I’m concerned, because to make it that far, you have to have sold your soul to the wealthy corporate donors who made it possible for you to be in that position.

Who questioned his military credentials? This is just stupid. Being on the Armed Services Committee gives you national foreign policy experience. Being shot down does not. The media is acting like a bunch of idiotic schoolchildren amazed that someone pointed out something so obvious and unremarkable that – yet something they themselves are too stupid or chicken to acknowledge. Ferrcrissakes.

Elieen from maine,
don’t start carrying on about how many planes someone crashed.
you will either force obama to make a speech about it, or go and tear up a plane or two himself.
john mccain crashed one plane, two planes, red plane, blue plane.
come on people.

At some point the chickens will come home to roost. Hopefully it will be before the election.
Too many high ranking democrats (9 by one writers count this weekend) have attacked McCain’s military service. If “the Obama he wants you to think he is” really is who and what he says he is, he should stop this hateful stuff right away.
Or is it that he cannot control his own troops, staff and surrogates?

rock the bleachers,
you know obama does not have time for committee’ he has his presidential campaign to run.
silly rocker,
obama’ running for president.
(not to be on some silly comm.-leave comm. for the suckers)

Obama’s surrogate Wesley Clark raises some interesting questions. He says that John McCain’s service experience does not qualify him to be President. He claims that his candidate who has exactly zero experience is somehow more worthy.
Wesley Clark alluded to character being a significant element in being qualified to run the most powerful nation on earth. It is not necessary to belabor all of Obama’s character shortcomings. His questionable associations and shady financial deals speak volumes. You do not have to look very hard to realize that this man has slithered through several elective processes while producing no voting record to help us identify his positions.
Wesley Clark derides a man who repeatedly and willingly flung his aircraft at what was then the most dangerous anti aircraft defense in the world. He did this repeatedly although he knew that the targets selected by the elected officials were not worth their lives. After being shot down he was tortured and yet conducted himself in exemplary fashion. He endured this for 5 full years.
Wesley Clark is right. Character is the most important issue. It is clear to me who the winner of that contest is. It is not Obama, and certainly not Wesley Clark who has soiled himself in this issue.

Gary Powers for President!

it is happening again. This is Obama’s dirty strategy — let other people do the dirty work, wait for a while, and then come out pretend to be clean.

All clark said is that being in a prison camp –even bravely — is not necessarily the same set of skills needed to be president. Are you saying this is false. You all thought cutting brush rather than wind surfing made Bush a better a president than Kerry. You were wrong, no one could have been worse. Kerry seems a foreign policy disaster who wants war, does not know how to win, and is confused about the issues. Do you really believe that being a POW -no matter how admirably he handled –is good experience for being president (or conducting a war?)

linda smith,
does obama have the right set of skills to be president?
how can you tell which of the two has the right set of skills?

John McCain isn’t running for President based on his military service?
lol
You’re kidding, right?
P.S. Wes Clark is not alone. Everything he said was true. I guess the media is just so embarrassed that they were to afraid to say it, that the feel to lash out. Sad.
P.S. Why do my posts always disappear these days? :)

I think he is a great guy and I would like to see him sec.of defense.He would make a good one and no one will mess with him.I agree ok McCain was shot so what so were many others.He uses this I know all there is to know about this.and Obama doesn’t.You know that is what his cabinet is for tp pick up the slack …..I think he belongs in a nursing home.Do you know we are paying him for the senate and social security to boot….

Brad, the conservative movement was built upon whining, outrage, and resentment. This is just par for the course.

Clark simply spoke the truth. Plain and simple. Where is the debate?

Wesley Clark commanded a Company not a Division in Viet Nam. The difference is that a company has about 180 men at most. A division can have 15,000 plus troops. Coincidentally, I was in the same 1st Infantry Division and was commanded by Alexander Haig, then commander of the 1/26th Infantry. Tell Mr. Clark that I honor his service; but by his own logic getting shot 4 times does not qualify one for anything but a purple heart nd a disanbility pension. That is Clark’s own course of logic. Silly are they not?

Well, well, well. None of us Hillary/McCain supporters on these boards are shocked by this. It all sounds oh so familiar as Obama’s minions have been singing this same chorus for some time now. And Obama repudiates the statements? Yeah, right. So tell us minions, has Obama thrown you under the bus? Or is this one of the wink*wink* NAFTA moments?

WOW, it seems that McCain’s FRAUDY record is beginning to come to light in the “media”. WOW, maybe next we’ll realize he has his own “Rezko” past…as in Keeting Five. Maybe, America will discover his wife doesn’t “really” love America…being that she’s a thief and pill popper. WOW, the “hero” isn’t so squeeky clean, huh!?!?

Azvet writes: “Obama’s surrogate Wesley Clark raises some interesting questions. He says that John McCain’s service experience does not qualify him to be President…. Wesley Clark derides a man who repeatedly and willingly flung his aircraft at what was then the most dangerous anti aircraft defense in the world. ..and certainly not Wesley Clark who has soiled himself in this issue.”
Azvet, Clark didn’t “deride” anyone, he asked how McCain’s “honorable” service, which in his eyes made McCain a “HERO”, was applicable to being president. He says it’s not, you say it is. As you say, it’s an interesting question — so how does merely bringing it up “soil” Clark?
Some people seriously need a sense of perspective. Wow.

We haven’t watched a single news item or program on ABC since the disgraceful performance of George Stephanopolis and Charlie Gibson during the debate and we are so much happier for it. My blood pressure is down too!
True journalists don’t make millions and don’t socialize and inbreed with the subjects of their “news” reports. The MSM are all in the bag for this Administration, the MIC, the status quo and the big fact tax breaks and perks they provide.

bruhman,
and yea, maybe we will find out mccain being shot down in a plane was all a hoax? right bruhman?

HARVEY,
No, I believe that actually happened. But, I know he GAVE OVER 30 PROPOGANDA SPEECHES AGAINST THE UNITED STATES WHILE HE WAS A POW!!! I also know that “squeeky clean” McCain has a dubious past, and everyone is scared to talk about it!!!

I have hired many people in my lifetime and believe me experience is a must. Obama has none. McCain has it. This is and easy choice. McCain 2008

The Obama campaign gaffes just keep on coming. Obama better be grateful it’s summer, and people are preoccupied.

Now this is an easy counter to Clarke
1 – Notice how they say what does not make McCain experience to be Commander and Chief BUT they never say what makes Obama experience! They are trying to diffuse the question.
McCain has ran Senate Committes, has traveled the world and met with leaders his ideas are good, he has the guts to stand by what he says!!
Obama was trained as a Washington insider, never standing up to an issue, testing the waters before he makes a decision, Constantly lies, is head of a subcommittee that has never had a meeting, is a Senator but yet has not served!
2 – Clark who served 1 month in Vietnam seems to have no experience other then book smarts

What Clark said about McCain is 100% true.
He also could’ve brought up the fact that McCain graduated 894th out of 899 in his college class in 1958, meaning he’s not too bright…but he didn’t.
Let’s not throw stones at people – shoot the messenger – simply because they tell the truth.
We did that with Bush Junior (CAN’T talk about his cocaine use, CAN’T talk about his deserting his post during Vietnam, CAN’T talk about his grandfather’s financing the Nazi death camps, CAN’T talk about his oil business rip-offs and insider trading, etc etc etc).
We stuck our heads in the sand with Bush Junior…and look where it’s gotten us. Worst President Ever.
Let’s not be afraid of the truth THIS TIME.

bush didn’t claim anything that qualfied him to be potus
he just said “i believe i can beat that other guy”
and he did.

Why is everyone afraid to question McCain’s experience as it relates to being president? Quite frankly, I think his experience is very relevant and is why I’m not voting for him. Nothing in his military career distinguishes him except for getting shot down and being a prisoner of war as many others did. What bothers me is as we see with our Iraqi vets from serving under extreme conditions; this man has all the characteristics of a man with PTSD. His quick anger and how he manages it is not the only sign of PTSD. He’ll never tough it through and it will impact his ability to lead by limiting his choices and clouding his responces. He leans easility to seeing the military as the preferred responce and all he has to do is pick up the phone.
Too bad the campaign attacks the press or anyone else who questions whether being emotionally scarred by years of being subjected to what he calls torture, with no recordable history of trying to address those traumatic experiences.
The media needs to stand up on this.

:) I don’t know about you guys, but I’m going to hang my AMERICAN flag PROUDLY this week in HONOR of all of those who have fight bravely for this country, from it’s very beginnings to the present day. I saw the Twin Towers fall. I won’t for one second to put into question the VALUE of our servicemen and servicewomen! God BLESS You All! God BLESS America! Have a WONDERFUL Fourth!

Code of Conduct III
a. If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
MCCAIN VIOLATED THAT!!!

General Clarke has his foot in his mouth. Does a fired general have the intergity and judgment with authority to critize Senator McCain? I think not.
Senator McCain is a stateman. Senator Obama is a wanna be.

Gen. Clark also made this distinction: Sen. McCain is running off his experience and his service record, including his POW experience. I’ve seen the TV commercials that back that up. Sen. Obama counters that with his judgement, critical thinking skills and ability to bring people together regardless of idealogical or partisan affiliation. General Clark stated that plainly on Face the Nation. It wasn’t a good thing politically, but since Senator Obama is running a campaign that seeks to transcend barriers, he also needs to counter political rhetoric with truth and deny Senator McCain and his surrogates the opportunity to twist a truthful statement made by the General.

“I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in the armed forces, as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee. And he has traveled all over the world.”
What part of that is not praise? He does praise McCain’s service and then goes on to say his particular service is not a qualification for President. This is all indisputably true. The fact that Clark is catching flack for this is crazy, nuts and this poorly written little article continues the lunacy.

I am an avid Obama supporter, but Gen. Clark was flat wrong. Flat wrong. Even if McCain had never served in the military, he has enough experience in the Senate to run for the highest office in the land. So if Gen. Clark concedes that much, what then was the point of his argument? Unlike Senator Kerry, McCain has never used his military service as the sole reason for his qualification to be President. Maybe this is a strategy by the Democrats, but i just don’t see the logic in it. I disagree with Gen. Clark, a man for whom i have the greatest admiration.

I will not add to the choruses that wish to diminish Sen. McCain’s military accomplishments. He served his country in that capacity, and that service is duly noted. He has since served his country proudly through politics, and that service is also duly noted. He has performed his service in the US Senate with honor and dignity… and, with my vote, he will continue to do so… in the Senate.

i have been telling you people that there is more to mccain and nam for quite some time now—-i can assure due to his fathers position in navy at the time– alot of the hero crap was made up to make him look good and a coverup for his actual behavior—i just could not remember all the facts as it was approx 40 years ago—–the truth will come out–clark knows the truth.

1 – Where did Clark “call into question the military credentials” of McCain? He called into question that McCain’s particular military credentials automatically translate into skills and experience needed to be president.
2- Oh and the Bush/Cheney campaign in 2004 really did call into question the military credentials of a war hero. They claimed he lied about his military record.

The important thing to remember is that McCain is the only Republican in any branch I can think of that actually went to a war and put himself at risk. Bush was in a champagne unit, Cheney took 6 deferments and had better things to do, ad nauseum. But it is the Democrats, who actually have military veterans, who get to take all the crap because the media, like the Republicans, were of the class that were too good to die in Vietnam.
The media is biased towards the GOP because they are of the same class and racial group, and the media is perfectly happy to promulgate the GOP as Big Daddy myth because it makes weenies like Brian Williams feel “safe and protected.” God forbid the overeducated Irish mafia (Mathews, Dowd, Russert rip) should quit drooling on the Presidents manhorn, they sure do appreciate being allowed to be “White” people now.
Liberalism in some form will still be around to do the heavy lifting of cleaning up after arrogant prix from the right and center right once they are done screwing up the country.

Getting shot down in plane doesn’t qulify one for POTUS. Not by itself, that’s true. But it does point to a certain level of experience that can be a predictor of what kind of man he would be as president just as similar circumstances were for a certain Democratic president – JFK.
Also, I find it curious that the same people who derided and condemned Dubya because his National Guard service wasn’t up to snuff to be commander-in-chief are now saying that real military service doesn’t have any bearing on presidential qualifications.
Personally, speaking as a veteran, I would much rather be sent into war by someone who has been on the pointy end of the stick. He will truly understand the price to be paid as opposed to someone whose war experience extends to the nightly news, “sniper fire” junkets or briefing papers prepared by the likes of Gen. Clark.

I used to weigh crab for a living. When we don’t have the scale, we have to sense if the crab is going to be meaty or not. Often the large outer shell would not guarantee that the crab will be heavy. What we often do is use a stick and press down on its legs. If it shows strength, it often indicates that it is solid inside.
Obama is a large, decorated shell. When weighed he has little experience; when challenged, he offers a lot of talk.

Senator Max Cleland of Georgia, a disabled Vietnam veteran, winner of both the Silver and Bronze Stars. If his patriotism could be questioned and the prank of the GOP. Then surely McCain’s War history could be called into question.

I have the perfect nickname for Rush Limbaugh… but the ABC censors won’t let me type it.

as obama has been put on the fire for every little item one could dream of or manufacture—–MCcain will now get the same and believe me when i say he has a lot to hide—he is not the person he would like you to think he is—more and more of his crap in nam will surface and he will be held accountable by the voters.

HILLARY LOOKS BETTER AND BETTER AS THE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE…..
BUT:
COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY!!!

kevin
do not let them upset you—mccain cannot hide forever from the truth about his torture in nam i was around at the time and the truth about his crap will start to surface—there are not to many of us left that know.but it will go directly to how credible he is.

crab_selector | Jun 30, 2008 3:46:44 PM:
Very perceptive…. and there’s
NOTHING better than a A SOFT SELL ;-)

sonny,
I can find several that diqualify McCain. READ THE CODE OF CONDUCT FOR U.S. FIGHTING FORCES!!!

traditionally speaking, the update would go at the top if you acknowledge that clark was not, in fact, calling into mccain’s military record. instead of leaving it as-is, even if that isn’t the complaint the obama campaign is making. this is about truth and falsehood, and the truth of your lede is not determined by what the Obama campaign’s statement is.

Bruhman:
“”Hero” McCain was shot down on mission number 23. Probably flew 2 per day, so on or about experience day 11-12. “”
Would you like to compare Obama’s patriotism and bravery in regard to McCain’s record?
Oh, and tack on all those years of service in the Unite States Senate!
COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY!!!

It sounds like the soliloquy from Caesar: “I come to bury McCain not praise him.”
But, like Brutus, “Clark is an honorable man.”

If one’s military record in war qualify one to be President, how did we miss electing Sgt York or Audie Murphy?
Wes Clark is absolutely correct in what he said. He should have said as well that military pilots as a group are great pilots but most have no understanding of the real world or the common sense of a bed post. I know. I served with them for years. They make great police chiefs but lousy mayors.

QUESTIONER…
Actually, yes!!!
Patriotism…devoted love and sacrifice for one’s country. You define it by military service, I suppose. Well, sacrifice can be defined in “plenty” of ways.
Bravery…a quality of spirit that enables you to face danger or pain without showing fear. Well, I say Senator Obama has displayed wuite alot of “bravery” during this entire election cycle.
In regard to McCain’s record…what record? He’s not the guy he wants YOU to think he is. he’s a FRAUD!!!

Obama’s definition of a patriot. unbelievable. He beleives terrorists deserve constitutional rights, but not American citizens under the second amendment
The young soldier who first spoke about the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib – he is a patriot. Recognizing a wrong being committed in this country’s name; insisting that we deliver on the promise of our Constitution

Voters, you should know that Barack Obama sitting in Trinty Church for 20 years listing to Rev. Wright sermons of racism and hate toward White America qualifies him as a hero like McCain being shot down and a POW for years.
LOL–General Clarke was fired so where is his credibility?

geevill,
That was not Senator Obama…that was the Supreme Court of the united States!!! Once they rule, it’s FINAL, FINISHED, FINITO!!!

Or even better…7 when he was shot down, 12 when he was released. Get a clue!!!

by his popularity we know what bush is—however mccain is a lot worse-and putting him in office just may destroy what little we have left—-these jacks are children of priviledge and not very smart–something which is very evident.got where they are not by deed but by priviledge

traci Wow you really help your candidate by you yourself saying McCain is “an old guy who knows nothing”. That just proves your hypocracy.

So Scottie, you think that because I criticize the far left I am voting for McCain? That’s the problem with a lot of you, you just don’t get it, you think that anyone that doesn’t agree with your views is voting for the other guy. The far left is capable of blowing this for Obama.

I love that the republicans here stand with the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh then have to nerve to say they’re not fanatics, they’re not hurting the republican party. Folks its these very people that have destroyed the republican party that I used to love. The republican party is facing hard times ahead. I am definately no longer supporting that party as it is today.

BruhMan | Jun 30, 2008 4:18:05 PM
Be careful who you vote for; Obama has a resume as slim as he…. and most of it was self endowed in his semi-autographical biographical novels….
They made good reading…
But when it came to fact, they were sorely lacking.
Just as his assortment of questionable hangers-on….. whose affection for this country is doubtful… is sorely lacking.
Just as his legacy of accomplishment… is sorely lacking…
In fact, the majority of legislation struggled over by others and plundered and passed in Obama’s name was bequeathed to him by Emil Jones… of good old Chicago Town…..
And the streets of Chicago which B O supposedly organized… well you should SEE those streets of Chicago!
And note the funds which were not/ are not forthcoming to Illinois schools… or to health care.
Indeed, B O’s accomplishments are scant!
So do not knock someone who has put his life and his love of country into his work…… as has Mccain.!
John may not be today’s oscar star… but he’s definitely the most knowledgeable and trustworthy of the two.
As for flip-flopping, B O is the hip-hoppingest flip-flopper of them all!

Anybody list a McCain accomplishment!!!
McCain-Kennedy…won’t vote for it!!!
McCain-Feingold…violated it!!!
That’s about it. So much for a “Maverick” 24 year career!!!

I am glad to be Independent after Hillary suspended her campaign.
Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary, but NO Thanks to Obama! I would go for Colin Power than vote for Mr. pure talk!

I am not a fanatic for the left or right the way many of you seem to be. The Move On types and Rush and Fox News types disgust me. I like Obama and will vote for him because I don’t believe McCain would make a good president. I just think some of the extremist(their way or no way) groups that support Obama could end up being his downfall.

As we saw with the preacher of god, in an election EVERYTHING is an issue, including a military record. I might point out that the same McCain defenders here had no problem “Swift-boating” and denegrating the record of a decorated war hero Sen John Kerry just a few years ago. Oh, that was different, right? Riiiiiiiggghhht

It’s because of this kind of manufactured “outrage” and inventing pure fiction (not even a child could misconstrue what Clark said and intrepet it as “attacking” McCain’s military service) that is the reason the national media, with it far-right appeasing, is no longer a credible source for news.

Denigrating a war hero’s service seemed to work pretty well for Republicans in 2004.

Perhaps he could have said it in a more delicate manner, but fact is being in a war doesn’t make one qualified to be president. I would think that a good education would be a nice starting point.

The REAL story here is that John McCain HAS military credentials as well as his awards for merit in the highest honor. Obama…well…he may win an Oscar from Hollywood. Does that qualify you as CIC? Wesley Clark is a side show folks!

“Where the data exists for head to head competition Obama beats McCain in three of three cases. Obama was able to manage his campaign prudently when he was behind and leading his opponent in the primaries.”
posted by RONN:
Well than, Maybe we should elect Axelrod as President!!!!

I love this.
The leftwingers who take everything out of context about McCain when it suits them, and who just make stuff up, are not combing through Clarke’s comments with a fine tooth comb and trying to spin it away.
Too funny.

I was surprised to hear on MSNBC all day and every hour the chatter about this attack by Clark. I listened to that show, and I agreed with Clark that being a Navy Pilot or a prisoner does not necessarily prepare you for president. But he didn’t say, McCain wasn’t qualified for president! Clark was only answering a question, He would not have mentioned this if he had not been asked. After all, the news has been filled with people talking about prepared for national security and saying Obama couldn’t handle the job. So, Clark’s comments were in order, particularly when he said he was proud of McCain’s service and patriotism. So, a big deal was made out of an insignificant remark.
After all, Bill Clinton was one of our best presidents by most measures (baring messing around), but didn’t have military experience.
George W. Bush had dual seat fighter experience and that didn’t prepare him for his “reduce taxes and go to war mentality.”
Gen. Grant was not that good a president but a marvelous general. Lincoln didn’t have prior military experience either. So go figure.
Americans have always thought that a military man has more gumption than a non military man. Maybe a football coach would be a better choice for president than a military man.
The real qualifications are for you to be able to out think your advisors, in a tough meeting. You don’t need all the answers, but you need to learn to accept the best advice available from you expert advisors and make sure you select good advice
I think Obama can do that as could Hillary.

The big story in the blogosphere is not this useless clark stuff, but the fact that the new obama website fightthe smears and dailykos have actually posted obama’s birth certificate from Hawaii and many experts now concur that it is a fake. the speculation is that obama is not even a US citizen and therefore ineligible to run for President!

Military service leads to the label “hero,” but there are several different types of military heroism. …
Was McCain just another serviceman, who is a “hero” because of having served? No. …
Was McCain a courageous “hero” from firefights, like Alvin York or Audie Murphy? No. …
Was McCain a “hero” because he withstood torture? Yes. …
Was McCain an Eisenhower? No.

Marcus:
McCain is your kind of candidate, fifth from the last in his college class. A low performer makes him your kind of guy.
You know it’s a fake because you did the forgery?
It must be difficult to support the inferior candidate unless you feel comfortable with a poor performer because he is not superior to you. Huh, Hmmmmm.

I won’t knock Clarks expertise in military matters even though he was canned by Clinton and Nato. Sad days in American politics!

“But how about serving a couple more hours in the senate than B O has?”
Perhaps it would if he voted the same way I would have liked him to, but he didn’t so I disagree with his positions.
I cetarinly do not agree with the positions he has taken since he started running for president.

General Clark DID NOT impune Senator McCain’s service in any way, shape, or form. In fact – he said Mccain was one of his heros, as well as a hero to millions, for his service. What he did say was simple logic – that McCain’s specific military service does not make him automatically qualified to be commander-in-chief anymore than being able to drive a car qualifies one to race at NASCAR.
Furthermore – I ‘ve no doubt he would have made these comments no matter who the presumptive Dem nominee was. The comments have nothing to do with Obama. And – considering they have nothing to do with Obama, I’m saddened and, frankly, disgusted, that an Obama campaign spokesman would denounce General Clark’s remarks.
There is nothing to denounce. Doing so smacks of political cowardice on the part of the Obama spoksman who issued the statement, at the very least.

It’s interesting that most conservative bloggers don’t come on until evening hours set in. Hey libs do you want to try some deductive reasons to reach some conclusions about that statement? Do you even know what deductive reasoning is? That’s where opinions on issues should come from – not from your whacked college profs!!

McCain wants us to vote for him because of his military experience but he doesn’t want us to ask if his military experience is relavant to the job of being president. Somebody needs to tell McCain that he can’t have it both ways.

Lincoln was no military man. But he was a good president.
Grant was a great general, but maybe not so good as a president.
Clark didn’t say that McCain was not qualified to be president, he just said that being a war hero and a fighter pilot didn’t necessarly qualify him to be president.
Sometimes I think the media ran down Hillary so they could get Obama and then they start on Obama so they can get McCain.
It is a media trick. This whole topic didn’t deserve all the talk that was on CNN, MSNBC and Fox today. I couldn’t believe my ears. I thought the whole thing was hardly worth discussing.

Clark, was, is now, and always has been, a LOOSE CANNON on deck..He is self IMPORTANT..He should take him monthly retirement check and shut his mouth..

Clark is only saying what a lot of people have been thinking – what does being a POW have to do with leadership?

“(One might also note that Clark spent all of about one month commanding an infantry division in Vietnam before being injured himself — by all accounts, quite heroically.)”
You know, he was also the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO European forces.

It’s just Obama and another one of his looney friends. We need to question Obama’s judgment – every day.

General Wesley Clark was not only a leader in a ground war, he was also Supreme Allied Commander. General Clark is a briliant military man and most of all he is a very honest man. The problem is, most politicans are afraid and jealous, of a bright military man who tells the truth. Just look at what happened to General Shinzeki, when he told the truth. Swift Boaters aren’t Marines, or infantry groundpounders and therefore, have no qualifications related to large scale ground combat operations. General Clark led ground combat operations and oversaw combat ground operations. John McCain never led a combat operations team on the ground and never oversaw large troop deployments. John McCain is also NO HERO. John McCain is in violation of the military CODE OF CONDUCT. Quit trying to make a guy a hero who agreed to spend time with the NVA. From what I personally know, John McCain was never tortured in North Vietnam. My info comes from captured Viet Cong and NVA troops. But to set the record straight, let’s have the commies in North Vietnam come forward and tell us the truth about John McCain’s conduct as a POW. Yes, let’s ask the NVA and Viet Cong, about the REAL John McCain and his actions while volunterering to stay in Hanoi. The truth needs to be told as to why John McCain volunteered to stay in North Vietnam. I believe the United States Congress needs to investigate John McCain and find out the truth as to why John McCain refused to be released from the Hanoi Hilton. Since John McCain violated the military CODE OF CONDUCT, this entire episode involving John Mccain conduct as a POW, needs to be investigated.

This time it backfired on Obama. He used Clark to do his dirty work and it backfired. This was to counter all the questions about Obama’s patriotism. This was on purpose right before July 4th-then Obama would give another speech that he’s probably been working on for quite a while(with all the flags behind him)and dare somebody to question him. He said so today. The problem was Clark just doesn’t have the “gift” of speech giving. With Obama’s joke of a record, I think I’ll just vote “present.”

Doesn’t this sound like Republicans attacking Max Cleland in Georgia, a Democrat who lost three limbs in Vietnam? What Clark said was “riding” in planes – and suggesting that he crashed many of them, after more than 254 successful bombing missions, has no basis in fact.
Dems don’t have to play dirty. This is as stupid as Nixon’s Watergate stunt, which I never understood because there was no chance in the world the Dems would have won that year. The tide is in favor of Democrats. They don’t have to stoop to the Republican dirty tricks level.

Barak wouldn’t have survived one
night at the Hanoi Hilton. It’s a
good thing he wasn’t a POW. Oh, he
was in Islamic School in Indonesia
while Sen McCain was in Vietnam.
So, GEN Clark who got fired from his
4 star position criticizes McCain’s
service.
One American who won’t salute the
flag (SEN Osama) and a GEN who was
pushed out by the Clinton’s.

If a Republican is in the White House for four more years, it’s over for America. Now rich people are shopping at Targets, and Wal-Marts. Ed McMahon, a rich movie star is about to lose his home to foreclosure. The Food Banks are running out of food to fed the homeless,
People in LA are living in their cars. Millions have lost their homes to foreclosure, student loans are drying up.Young American female and male soldier have had their faces, arms, legs, and genitals blown off. Many commit suicide weekly.Countries around the world hate us for attacking a country that didn’t attact us, and for the torchures at Abu Ghraib. Gasoline prices are sky high.The world is praying Obama wins. You either put a Democrat in the White House or it’s over. The End, Finito, Done, Cooked, Toast

Crashing an aircraft and being held hostage does not qualify John McCain to be President, but I’ll tell you what disqualifies him:
Violating the Code of Conduct for US Fighting Forces by making over 30 propoganda statements against the United States and aiding the enemy!!!

So Republicans can Swiftboat John Kerry, but Dems can’t do the same thing to John McCain? Stop whining, you hypocrites. The fact is, John McSame had the opportunity to shut down this line of attack in 2004, when Swiftvets were smearing his friend John Kerry. But McCain chose to remain silent and sell out his fellow veteran, so frankly I have no sympathy for the guy. He deserves all the criticism that comes his way and then some. He’s a creep.

“Yes, his military service is part of his stock campaign biography, but McCain is not running on that record nearly as much as he’s running on his service in Congress.”
Well, it’s also part of the stock footage he uses in his campaign ads! Haven’t you seen them? Black & white footage, McCain lying on a stretcher, giving his military id number? Or how about the most recent one where McCain says he hates war and he should know since he’s been there, done that.
McCain is running on his war hero status! It’s really all he has since he’s reversed himself so many times on so many issues: taxes, immigration, torture, offshore drilling, overturning Roe v. Wade, etc. etc. and supports this war based on a lie.

Being a failed NATO commander didn’t qualify Wes for president.
He wrongly supported Hillary (oops, guessed wrong, poor political instincts) and has now ended any chance he had in an Obama administration.
However, he won’t be alone. He has his ego to keep him company.

Clark’s comments were right on the money,.although I like, admire and respect John McCain very much, his war time experience, although very honorable and impressive, does not in my opinion, make him better equipped to be commander and chief. After all we have learned about the reason’s for going into Iraq, he still thinks it was the proper decision to go into Iraq. In my opinion , he, as most Republicans do, has bad judgment when it comes to foreign affairs. He is liable to get us into another extremely costly and unnecessary war, much more so, than Obama. Wesley Clark also said the following “n the matters of national security policy making, it’s a matter of understanding risk,” Clark said “It’s a matter of gauging your opponents, and it’s a matter of being held accountable. John McCain’s never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in the armed forces, as a prisoner of war.” . Wesley Clark was not disrespecting John McCain, he was stating that his experiences do not make him better qualified to be commander and chief. I for one totally agree with Wesley Clark’s statements, and I hope he does not apologize, he did nothing wrong. I want somebody in the White House that has good judgment, and in my opinion, Obama fits that criteria much better than McCain.

Not what anyone wants to say out loud, but it’s true. getting shot down will not help him figure out this awful ecomomy, the falling dollar or energy problem. it’s not at all relevent and mcCain has admitted himself he doesn’t know how wallstreet works and the economy is not his strong point. Why is this man the republican nominee?

First of all, I’d say that Lt General Wesley Clark outranks Capt. McCain and can say he anything he damn well pleases.
Secondly, I’d like to know how crashing 5 airplanes qualifies you to be President of the United States.

Didn’t get past the first line, nor did I get past the second comment…Did Klein or comment poster #2 even read what Clark said? He asked if McCain’s suffering qualified him to be president? He complimented the man, then asked an obvious question during a presidential campaign. Use facts, Klein. And if his service is his sole qualification comment boy #2, why’d you vote for Bush?

Clark is a good politician, though. He still managed to NOT answer the first part of the question “Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences, either”… in other words what are Obama’s experiences that qualify him to be the commander in chief?
The silence is deafening!

my god folks…
seriously, how in the world does being shot down and doing five years as a POW translate into a Commander In Chief promotion?
It doesn’t say he isn’t a patriot… but its not informative to us as voters.
i mean… seriously… have we forgotten that he voted for this war… and still thinks its a good war for us to fight? THAT ALONE should tell us that being a POW might actually be a warning sign!

On wonders if the right to blog should be extended to the political director of a news organization when he issues statements like:
“Find me a single Democrat who thinks it’s good politics to call into question the military credentials of a man who spent five-and-a-half years as a prisoner of war.”
Objection, Your Honor. The question calls for inadmissible opinion. testimony (or inadmissible speculation) on the part of the witness… and he, a bona fide journalist for a major network.
Mr.Klein responds to General Clark’s statements with a pounce on their political acuity rather than examining them for accuracy. Mainstream media should be above this destructive pattern of trying to create controversy rather than analyzing a statement on its merits.

Does anyone doubt Obamas ability to stage events after this. I mean a speech in Independence, Mo about patriotism, while a suurogate talks trash about McCains military service.
Obama is taking a very low road after pledging to have a campaign that doesn’t sling mud. I quess this is just another flip flop by Obama.
His “words” and speeches mean nothing to this Independent anymore.

You know I get so sick of the media voicing their opinion of who said what, etc. They certainly get their view of situations out to the public and then sit back watch it grow into a mountain. I respect McCain and Obama. I do not believe what Clark said deserves the outrage that has developed in the media.
McCain’s service record was not in question only the fact “does it qualify him for the office of President of the United States of America??????

This time the divide and spin ploy backfired on Obama. Send the surrogate to make the divisive statement, then put Obama in front of flags for a press conference in the appropriately named town and have him toss the surrogate under the bus and tell the opponent not to do what he just did… again.
Except it isn’t working. Clark couldn’t even tell the difference between Diane and Robin on GMA this morning. Kind of near sighted?
Obama is playing with symbolic leadership but anyone who ever had to lead a combat unit can tell you the first people to fall are the ones wearing the loudest uniforms. Obama has a lot of style but no substance.
I think the Hillary supporters are right to hold back their support until they see something worthy of it. So far, no sale.

They played a game with the press and the public, Swank. This time it became very obvious.
These are the same tricks use to pound Senator Clinton. The Obama campaign is a one-trick pony.
McCain asked the right questions. How will any of this bring down the price of gas one cent? How will any of this help rebuild infrastructure? How will any of this change the politics in Washington?
The answers are obvious even to those poor bitter people clinging to their values in the face of the BS blizzard from Chicago.

Rick said:
“Clark’s comments seem to miss a vital point about the McCain campaign: Yes, his military service is part of his stock campaign biography, but McCain is not running on that record nearly as much as he’s running on his service in Congress.”
I disagree. I think most of the public would disagree. McCain has very much been making his five years as a POW the central point of his campaign. His service in Congress? Supporting Bush? He’s been running as far from that as he can. Which leaves him with a fuzzy, non-specific claim of ‘experience’…and five years as a POW.
And of course going after the wingnut branch of the evangelical vote (Parsley and Hagee) until that was spotlighted and stopped.
McCain simply doesn’t have much to run on at all.

The question is not whether
McCain is qualified. He is.
But he’s not entitled to be
POTUS. The question is whether
he is the right man.
His POW experience in fact
may have negatively impacted
him and distorted his
worldview. All he talks about
is war here war there war
everywhere.
As a POW he was not tortured.
He suffered leg and shoulder
injuries when his plane was
shot down and crashed into a
lake. He was tangled up in
his parachute and was drowning.
A North Vietnamese man who
lived nearby came out of his
house and helped him to safety.
In 2000 when he ran for President,
he was asked what he thought
of the North Vietnamese. He said:
I will hate them till the day
I die.
McCain is the wrong man.

Christ! It’s simply unbelievable how the press is coming to the defense of McCain over an imaginary affront.
Let’s debunk this BS:
1) Clark simply repeated the words of the questions when he said “riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down”. Yet, Klein and others cite this as an insult.
2) Clark did not criticize McCain’s service–although there are plenty of things to mock in it–precisely because he thought so highly of McCain’s Vietnam record. But, in the end, this record amounts to being shut down, captured and tortured. It may be a profile in courage, and qualification for medals and military career promotion, but it’s hardly qualification for Presidency forty years later.
3) There were two attacks on John Kerry’s military record. One criticized his use of his service as qualification for higher office. The other was the Swift Boat fabrication that has been thoroughly debunked. There is a vast difference between criticizing the service itself (swiftboating) and criticizing the use of past service as a career crutch. The latter is perfectly legitimate and is exactly what Clark has done. The former is, at best, unseemly. Unfortunately, the media’s love affair with McCain precludes them from being able to tell the difference.
4) There are plenty of questions about McCain’s leadership skills. Even his own reasoning behind leaving the military for a career in politics is open for review. By attacking Clark, the press is giving McCain a pass and is implying that his qualifications cannot be questioned by anyone else either. This is preposterous!
I don’t want to go into the idiocy of the Obama campaign disavowing Clark comments. Clark was not just correct–his remark was on the money. It is in McCain’s interest to revert this election year to the usual pageant, where actual qualification don’t matter–only the image is important. McCain is no W, but there is no reason to ignore his faults.

McCain was a celebrity POW because
of his father’s admiralty in the
Navy.
This business that his injuries
are from beatings and torture are
fiction.
His injuries are from the impact
he suffered when he ejected from
his plane and hit the surface of
the lake. He was unconscious when
he was pulled out of the water.

Thank you, General Clark. In our terrorized society where everyone is afraid to point out any truth if it contradicts the neocon storyline, you had the courage to. Our media is controlled by the neocon fearmongering these days, so it’s an uphill battle. But soldier on, my good man, soldier on.

People who think Wesley Clark asked a reasonable question about McCain’s POW experience and how that qualifies him for President are just simply stupid and thinking that because military Generals lost the war in the Civil War and Licoln somehow won because he was not a military person are again stupid. If you don’t understand a person’s character is the most important attribute to being President and how many men Licoln sent to their deaths because he didn’t understand how many men would be lost doing his dumb bidding then you have no business even voting in November.