Defense of Marriage Act Splits ’08ers

Glen – congratulations to you. Most people seem to be afraid to change posititions these days for fear of being called flip-floppers.

I think it is sick. I think it degrades what MARRIAGE has stood for through the times of man irregardless of any religion. It will weaken and destroy the fabric of society.

Just give them civil unions as a compromise, they get the legal protection they deserve and the conservatives can shut the hell up!!! What, TOO rational! What’s so complicated?

Anderson, you do know that “irregardless” is not a word, right? If you are goint to oppose something, you might as well do it correctly. I don’t think that spreading the reach of the word “marriage” hurts anyone.
We’ve changed rules and terms before to accomodate other people. America grows by adapting to these changes.

So BILLY CLINTON signed this into LAW…. and people go after the Republicans… go figure…. I think its the gay people who are preaching hate and using the word “discrimination” to intimate heterosexuals and degrade what a “Marriage” has always meant in order to get what they want…. It will never be “NORMAL”……I have no problem with “civil unions”, as with any handicap, we should accommodate their handicap so they can have the same benefits….. but it totally wrong to define a marriage as anything goes…….

I think your marriage must be really weak if it is treathened by what two other people do somewhere in the US. Never have I understood why there should be any involvement of the government in marriage. By the way, I’ve been married for 38 years.

Isn’t this a question for the church? If people are not against civil (legal) arrangements, then the rest is a question of religion…isn’t that for the Church?

another interesting point on this for me as more of a conservative, is that liberals and people who fully support gay marraige, use the fight that this isnt a government decision. and i TOTALLY agree with that, but heres my point.. those same people are generally, for bigger government! it just seems so contradicting to me. they dont want the government to be involved in any way with this, but they want them to be in charge of our healthcare? they fully support keeping our welfare nation alive and well? they support canidates who want to put profit caps on big companies? they support sooo many things that the government just shouldnt be involved with, or have very limited involvement with. i mean, the list could go on and on and on with things that these same people who dont want the government involved in this particular subject, but want them involved in other decisions that government shouldnt be involved with. i just cant figure that one out. where am i wrong?

==I think your marriage must be really weak if it is treathened by what two other people do somewhere in the US.==
I’ve always wondered why I should fret about a wifebeating down the street. It doesn’t involve me. Neither does the rape of a woman, nor somebody beating you up side the head and taking yo’ money.
Yeah, I see your point.
== Never have I understood why there should be any involvement of the government in marriage.==
I agree that those who claim to be homosexual could have gone to a lawyer and drawn up a contract and called it “mariage,” if they wanted. I agree with you that they didn’t need this court decision.
==By the way, I’ve been married for 38 years. ==
Not to a member of the same sex as you.

So, what’s discriminatory about requiring “marriage” to be between a “man and a woman”? Anything in there that requires the man to be hetero and the woman hetero??? Unless, of course, you wanna try to prove that those who claim to be homosexual are members of a third sex that is excluded.

Those that believe in same sex marriages are truly godless people like most democrats running for office are.

This country starts to frighten me. Women drinks and smoke like men. Many men have lost their manhood. What amazes me is liberals have totally lost family values. Men who have trouble finding women will have an excuse to become gay or vice versa. Same-sex is already a taboo in private!!! I don’t need to see or expose my kids to public to see this on the street. It’s a good thing that most of you supporting this live in California, Chicago or New York City.

==It’s a good thing that most of you supporting this live in California, Chicago or New York City. ==
All NObama strongholds. Remember this this coming November.

==I don’t need to see or expose my kids to public to see this on the street.==
Just keep an eye on your kids around public toilets.

==I am an American Citizen who deserves the same rights as all American citizens.==
You already have those Rights.
After all, the laws that define “marriage” as being between “one man and one woman” don’t say that the man and the woman have to be heterosexual. So, a man claiming to be homosexual may already marry a woman who is homosexual, for instance.

==I can no longer see how it is a risk to my or anyone’s marriage.==
That’s cuz you don’t care about anybody else but you. You don’t look beyond you.

==I don’t need to see or expose my kids to public to see this on the street.==
The view of the Homosexual Militia is that they don’t care what you wanna see, or, in this case, want not to see; and they don’t care what you want your kids to see, of, in this case, want them not to see. Their view is that they wanna impose this on you and your kids and this society and this culture and this country, and their MO is to accuse you of hate until you give in. Just say, “NO!”

As a middle-aged happily married woman and mom of three, I can’t imagine why legalizing gay marriage would be a threat to my marriage or any other. Let’s not ignore that the divorce rate is now around 50%. Let’s not ignore that in Europe where gay marriages are allowed their divorce rate didn’t get worse.
Instead we should be spending our time and energy figuring out how to make all marriages stronger, whether straight or gay. Because keeping families together is generally good for society and kids. We should recognize the extreme financial stress spouses are under today. Some people are working two jobs to make ends meet. That doesn’t leave much time for family togetherness that is the glue in a marriage. So all those people who are complaining about gay marriage, why don’t you work on a real problem facing families, like lack of health insurance or this country needing a living minimum wage or how the heck poor people will pay their heating bill this winter?

==Let’s not ignore that the divorce rate is now around 50%.==
Let’s not ignore the fact that you are comparing the larger number of heterosexual couples to a much lower number of “the other ones.” Not a fair comparison, and dishonest, at best.
Try taking the per capita numbers and see what you come up with.
In any case, what does the divorce rate among heteros have to do with this issue?? Are you trying to tell us that you advise your kids that it would be better for them to go homosexual cuz heterosexuals have such a high divorce rate????

–…keeping families together is generally good…==
Keeping a family where the man is husband to a woman who is his wife is good for the family and society; but compare that with the so-called “same-sex ‘marriage,’” and tell us the benefits to society of it.
Tell us, too, according to the Word of God, what is godly about the so-called “same-sex ‘marriage.’”

Fear, ignorance, hate, prejudice — excellent indicators of religious and political fundamentalism. Max “Manly” you make the point very well that the more cognitive complexity challenged one is the more likely one is going to think along black and white terms; i.e., fundamentalist thinking. Not only do you not know your Bible very well but you don’t know much of anything about either psychology or sociology. My suggestion, quit posting while you can rather than prove your cognitive handicap even worse than you have already. When one pontificates about issues one has no understanding of, one proves oneself the fool.

Why don’t we desolve marriage in our society and just call it coupling then? You can couple with whomever or whatever you want. Without invoking religion, homosexuality is faulty behavior and thinkling. My real problem with it is that they are constanly looking for young boys to convert, since as I stated earlier, it is not genetic. If it were genetic there would be very few homosexuals left on earth because they seldom reproduce offsprings, and so they don’t pass on that gene. The gene pool will die out. Do you think this is faulty logic on my part? Well, say so and explain.

This is not at all about the warm and fuzzy make folks feel good. This is about oppression. If you love Obama or Mcain great, just don’t be fooled into thinking this is a partisan, “help the victim thing.” It’s bad. We can all vote together on this, conservative or liberal, gay or straight.
This ruling may well be overturned by November. Californians, unlike those poor people in Massachusetts have reasonably simple and public way to amend the constitution. Sounds OK right? Wrong. The cases of marriage licenses being reduced to civil unions (despite the language being almost identical) will all but immediately appear before the U.S Ninth Circuit… and every state that has one of its citizens married in California between now and November… Guess how that court will rule? Then before the year is out this will before the U.S. Supreme court. Yes, the one that has extended more rights to terrorists captured on the battlefield than grape harvesters from Mexico.
Do you smell a rat yet? If not, ask yourself, where is the mass media? Have you seen a story like my imaginary AP story? Where’s the dissent? What happens when gas hits $10, $20– it’s all for the benefit of mother earth… don’t say anything…. pay up…. What if folks start getting a little uppity? Do you have a wiff of this thing yet? Do you realize what we are telling this government it can get away with. Californians woke up this morning in a totalitarian regime. You’re next.

++The only difference is that now the legitimate government service of saying who the husband is and who the wife is has vanished from California… without a vote being cast. Even worse, the language of father and mother is no longer to be used on birth certificates. Is that governmental equality? Is that civil rights? A tiny minority cannot walk, now all must be lame?++
The short answer is yes, that is government equality, that is civil rights. Equality before the law for both men and women – gender neutral and gender blind. That’s how it’s SUPPOSED to be. The rhetorical and illogical question at the end doesn’t merit rebuttal.

Up to the state? What’s wrong with Obama, why can’t he just say the wish is that homosexuals have the same right to marry as anyone else? South-Africa, Spain and my country Norway just decided to allow same-sex-marriage. It’s no big deal, and it means a lot to the people affected. To them it’s a beautiful thing. How can that be wrong?

Obama really, really believe he is already president and that he is just on a sebatical before he takes his rightly place.
“As president, my job IS to make sure that the federal government is not discriminating”
In Chicago he told a crowd that he doesn’t know if he would be able to get his house back after his 8 year at the white house.
According to Newsweek he is already making plans as to whom will be in his cabinet.
For Christ sake it’s only June. The man needs a reality check. I say the American people give him a message loud and clear in November that presidential candidates in America should not be counting the their chickens before they hatch. This is not Russia. We don’t know the president before he is even nominated.

==Fear, ignorance, hate, prejudice — excellent indicators of religious and political fundamentalism. Max “Manly” you make the point very well that the more cognitive complexity challenged one is the more likely one is going to think along black and white terms; i.e., fundamentalist thinking. Not only do you not know your Bible very well but you don’t know much of anything about either psychology or sociology. My suggestion, quit posting while you can rather than prove your cognitive handicap even worse than you have already. When one pontificates about issues one has no understanding of, one proves oneself the fool. ==
Heh. All that effort and time, and you didn’t address even one point I brought up. Not even one.

having a law that prevents any two (or more)consenting, not familial adults from marrying is a curb on freedom of expression. There has already been a ruling that separate but equal does not work. There is no issue of public safety at stake. There is no need for any such law.

Those who don’t learn from history are likely to repeat it. This country appears to be going down the same path of the Greeks and Roman Empire? Gradual moral disintegration from within was what eventually led to their downfall. The legalization of pornography, the new morality in film, television, and the airwaves, the breakdown of the family, and now same-sex marriage. What a “wonderful legacy” we leave for future generations!

You said it right, Alberto!

Gerard,
Your compassion is admirable. When an issue hits close to home, we become open minded.
Do we have to experience it in our own families to understand just how selfish and unfair it is to deny rights and privileges to some people because of sexual preference?
As someone merely observing from the outside of the gay community, I am outraged. Imagine how this makes them feel.

BO will say anything to get a vote… He knows it wont be overturned…, cause there are just as many DEMOCRATES that endorse this Act as Republicans ………………………..In a June 1996 interview in the gay and lesbian magazine The Advocate, Clinton said: ” I remain opposed to same-sex marriage. I believe marriage is an institution for the union of a man and a woman. This has been my long-standing position, and it is not being reviewed or reconsidered.” And Hillary backs the federal Defense of Marriag Act – signed into law by her husband in 1996 – under which a state can’t be compelled to accept a same-sex “marriage” from another state.

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There goes the power-hungry intern again, deleting posts he doesn’t like.
I thought “journalists” were pro-Right to know and pro-free flow of ideas. I guess not.

A lot of gays seem to have been married at some point in their lives. They split up that marriage when they come out of the “closet”. The notion the gays cannot marry is silly. They can marry someone of the opposite gender in any state. That they cannot marry same gender is recognition of the biological reality of male and female. There is even a technicality of same genders being unable to consummate a marriage because they do not have the parts required (one male and one female). To say gays have the right to marry is like saying a paraplegic has a right to walk or a blind person has the right to see. Yes, they do have those rights but not the capabilities.
If we throw love into the mix as the only criteria why cannot there by marriages between family members? If you take all moral and religious arguments out of it why should we discriminate based on age or even mental competency?
We should also be clear on the purpose of gay marriage – to get financial benefit to the couple. If this issue is love there is no need for state sanctioned union. There are examples of couples that have been together many decades. They can go on together and enshrine similar legal rights as married couples if they want to.

OK so it’s OK for 2 people who love each other to get married.
Man to Man
Woman to Woman
Father to Son
Sister to Brother
Aunt to Nephew
These people all love each other in perverse ways we should endorse it?
Enough of this immoral indulgence. If gays want to get together we as respecters of marriage need never support them.

The 2-Presidents-for-the-Price-of-One Clintons gave us that piece of dreck to protect marriage. Oh, the irony! Has anyone- except for Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley- had a more phony marriage than the Clintons?

Question to all biology professors. How does it feel to have all of your teaching go down the drain? I’m mean, how did these people pass biology?

It’s not as easy as “Well if two people love each other.” I’m sorry but someone can love their dog or their 14 year old step sister but that doesn’t give them the right to marry them. My point being what makes gays such a special case? There are plenty of groups out there that would like the same thing. Why just gays? Marriage has been defined as the joining of one man and one woman for 5000 years for a very good and logical reason. It has been proven by far the best way to nurture the next generation of humans, their offspring. If being gay were such a normal state of affairs we would have ceased to exist thousands of years ago. Gay marriage is not a “civil right.” A lifestyle choice is not a civil right. What we have here are a group of judges legislating from the bench with the approval of the media and a small vocal minority. I say let the people of California decide for themselves.
Obama is far from stupid but very dishonest in his opinion on DOMA. He knows that if this is abolished there will be a flood of lawsuits across the country as to whose marriage is valid which will eventually overwhelm the system.
In closing it is my belief that gays have every right to live their lives as they see fit. That being said I would no more give a license to practice medicine to a plumber than I would a marriage license to two gays.

In creation all species (at least the vast vast majority) mate with each other (i’m sure there are exceptions in extreme conditions) and between male and female. Now we humans are not above this law of nature so to speak.Now i do not hate homosexuals. No on the contrary i love them. I DO NOT love what they do, but I DO love them. Now i believe in the one true God who became incarnated as a man whose name was and is Jesus. His bride (the church) will be married to Him. Now i want to encourage anyone who reads this message to put their trust in Jesus Christ. You may say “All of that stuff worthless” or whatever. I believe that if you will honestly ask God for the truth and if you will read His words (the bible) you will turn to Him. SO long to whoever

Not only that but, this left/right stuff is a waste of time, and your allowing yourself to be played by the politicians. Republicans who aren’t millionaires are chumps, they actually believe their representatives care about this moralistic crap. Republicans are just trying to get more money, and they use gullible religious people to vote them into office, then they throw the far right a few bones to keep them quiet while they lower their personal taxes even more.
The democrats conversely secure a voter base by giving money and services to poor people.
The problem is that they both waste money, but the republicans waste MORE by starting wars, cutting their own taxes, and giving lobbies anything they want than the democrats waste by providing social services.
The amount spent on this war, this economic bailout, and all the other republican screw ups could balance the budget, give everyone healthcare, guarantee social security, and STILL have a surplus. Start thinking with your mind and not your dogma, it’s about where the money is wasted, and wasting it on the American people (not just a few rich people) is a better use of funds.
People whine about redistribution of wealth, but that’s what a stable society requires. The rich are allowed to be rich only because the poor pay them. If the poor get too poor, too hungry, too sick, or too bored, then we have what we call anarchy of the masses. Then the rich must pay for a stable society if they want to live in one, or they can go somewhere else and let someone else take their place.
Many are poor because their jobs were offshored, and because no one will pass legislation to fine companies who hire illegals. Both of these practices make them richer, and middle America poorer. Because of this, they have to come out of pocket to support the people whose jobs they killed. They must pay because they poor don’t have the power to change the situation that the rich people have created in America.
Just imagine what is going to happen when robots begin to replace even more jobs (like the self-checkout and auto-manufacturing) and the number of jobs for the poor become so small due to automation everyone else has literally NOTHING to do.
We’re going to have to do something with a lot of wage-grade labourers and teenagers. There is even an automated McDonalds now.

I have skimmed over alot of these post. What no one seems to be considering is the next generation, our children and the message same sex marriage is sending them.
I suppose to the same sex couple this is not that much of a concern. I cannot speak for them for sure on this matter but to the heterosexuals I am guessing most do not want to send the message that this is normal.
Some people have stated this does not effect my marriage so why should I be concerned. Maybe not for yourselfs but what about your children and grandchildren? If they are rasied in a society that teaches same sex marriage is normal and that there is nothing morally wrong with it, then this becomes the new norm. Just think about it and the effect it will have on the next generation, their kids and your grandchildren.
Same sex marriage may not effect you directly but it does affect you indirectly, espeically if you have kids at all in any part of your families. What message do you want to send them? This is the real issue.

Homosexuals are going to try anything to be cured of their strange brain disease. After marriage, what next?