McCain on Obama: On Terrorism, He Just Doesn’t Get It

Who cares what McCain says. He’s just keeping this OB rhedoric up to question Obama’s National Security experience. If McCain is so worried about Bin Laden, why doesn’t he talk to his mentor Bush about trying to capture him or have him put out a 25 million dollar bounty on his head. Enough already McCain. Terriorism will be there when he loses in November and beyond. It will be left up to Obama to address the Osama Bin Laden problem. I think things will change once Bush is out of office. The whole world will be happy.

I think McCain should seek solace in history. Pres. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the civil war and he did so when congress was not in session. Seems Obama would have disagreed with Lincoln perhaps?
I think outside of the legal arena, Obama’s position may not be so popular. Outside the legal arena, McCain’s may be more palatable. I note that Obama is careful in how he answers the question posed re: Bin Laden. He does not really answer it vis a vis habeas corpus at all. Very Obama.

“Regardless of the merits of the jurisprudence argument”…
Why? Isn’t that the heart of the matter. Why not say the same thing about abortion, or illegal spying, and so on. We are a nation of laws. Issues like this are inseperable from the underlying jurisprudence.
I get what Jake is saying, but I don’t want a Chief Executive, a Commander-in-Chief, who makes decisions on legal issues based on “politics”. That’s what Bush has done, and the results have not been good.

Lois, California, you wrote: “…or have him (President Bush) put out a 25 million dollar bounty on his (Usama bin Laden’s) head.”
FYI: The bounty was $25 million until the Senate voted 87-1 to double that to $50 million last July.

BKMC, you wrote: “(Sen. McCain)…who does not have 1/1000 of the intelligence and knowledge of these honorable people who know what the US constitution is about and Human Rights and high standards are about.”
The U. S. Supreme Court decision was a 5-4 vote. So 4 of those “honorable people who know what the U. S. Constitution is about…” agreed with Sen. McCain.

5-4 Vote huh Danley? Issues?
Wasn’t that the same vote that selected Bush as president in 2000? Don’t seem to remember any complaints from McCain about that 5-4 vote.

“In 2004 Kerry was considering McCain for Veep spot.”
And now the abominable Kerry has given us the One. What does THAT tell us about the One?
“Change”, my great aunt Fanny.

In order for a law to be a law, it has to be applied consistently and universally. Laws and rights are separate words and legal definitions. The concluding question attempts to call one thing as something else. Habeas Corpus is a law and it’s been upheld by the Supreme Court as being applicable to the detainees. That’s the law.

The words “Liberty and Justice for all” are etched into the fabric of America. It’s what we stand for and it’s who we are as a nation. This democracy was designed to be a model for the world to follow. Let’s not forget that.

McCain’s answer to the families of MIA and other POWs in Vietnam was the same, ” you do not get it” Now he is harping the same BS about terrorism, that has been around since day one. The SOB Bin Laden is a creation of Reagan/Bush One, their beloved freedom fighter whom they provided all the military hardware, aided and abetted in that other war in Afghanistan. When the Soviets withdrew, the great republican of them all reneged his promises and Bin Laden became enemy number one. McCain also forgets that the Gulf on Tonkin incidence that led LBJ to start whole scale bombing of Vietnam was a fraud as is the war on Iraq. Which has done nothing but multiplied Islamic radicals and other like mushrooms.
McCain, you are the one that does not get it that their is nothing to win in Iraq, as there was nothing to win in Vietnam other them the usual conservative republican BS about the propaganda of terror hype, siege mentality, fomentation of hate, fear and republican patriotic feeding frenzy to control the hearts and minds of a misled and gullible nation. The real terror is economic and unless we started to rethink and start establishing equal equality and justice for all, rather then your conservative republican kind, there is not going to be a let up.
The country and the world does not need your senile old BS and the same status quo. No doubt you are too old to change or see reality. Time to retire !

I really do not understand why the Republican Party does not trust the Constitution, and does not believe in the US and its laws.

Oh the horror… The Dems wanna bring bin Laden to justice… Someone, stop these crazy softies…
(Re-posted without exclamation marks but with equally thick irony)

It’s not about a “phony” argument, it’s about whether or not Obama agrees with with the decision…which he clearly does…even though he’s touted as a hot-shot Constitutional scholar. Obama’s support for this decision (which the minority had right whereas the majority had it right the last time the Court addressed the issue) goes hand-in-hand with his general philosophy on the judiciary:
“But the issues that come before the court are not sports; they’re life and death. We need somebody who’s got the empathy to recognize what it’s like to be a young teenage mom. The empathy to understand what it’s like to be poor, or African-American, or gay, or disabled, or old. And that’s the criteria by which I’m going to be selecting my judges.”
“You’ve got to look at what is in the justice’s heart, what’s their broader vision of what America should be.”
God help us. He doesn’t appear to understand the proper role of the judiciary at all. What the heck do they teach up there at Harvard anyway. Oh well, when it comes to Constitutional rights for illegal combatant terrorists, at least, a majority of Americans are with McCain, not SCOTUS and not Barack Obama.
What would Pooh do?

The right of Habeus Corpus is one of the things that defines us as the beacon of freedom and demoncracy in this world. We have absolutely nothing to fear from granting Osama bin Laden this right. Give him the chance to challenge the legal basis for us to hold him.
We have plenty of evidence of his complicity in the 9/11 attacks. Are we so insecure in our justice system that we really think he could get away? Lets show the world that we are still a great nation.

“We have plenty of evidence of his complicity in the 9/11 attacks. Are we so insecure in our justice system that we really think he could get away? Lets show the world that we are still a great nation.”
Show that evidence. Really. OJ Simpson was guilty with prima facie evidence. I don’t disagree with the principle but Usama’s case may be different and legal minds have to work on that. Granting a combatant who has purposefully waged war habeas corpus is not as cut and dried as granting it to OJ. A mass murder witnessed by millions may not fit the legal definitions as neatly as some think.
But the issue is not that. The issue is a televised show trial. It could be the best recruiting tool they could get. On the other hand, it could be the best argument for the decency of this country. My problem with that is that those who believe that already won’t have their minds changed and those that don’t won’t either. Risky results for someone who we would execute anyway. See Jeffrey Dahmer.
The best possible outcome is his head comes back in a refrigerated box so clinicians can study his brain to see if there is physical evidence of abnormalities. At least that is some kind of use for an otherwise useless pile of garbage.

Saddam Hussein was tried in accordance with the laws of the Geneva Convention rather than in accordance with our constitutional laws.
Why should these terrorist detainees be adjudicated any other way?
International law is in place for just such situations!
HILLARY BEFORE MCCAIN!
MCCAIN BEFORE OBAMA !
COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY!!!

Obama stated before, that the oath of president is only to protect the constitution.
So, as far as he is concerned he is not worry to much about the country, the people in other ways.
Obama wants to rule the world and Be king and make the world war free. he thinks his motivational, mind manipulation, mind control will work on other nations and their leaders.
I truly believe he Thinks he can now.

“That’s not America.
Posted by: John | Jun 18, 2008 11:14:31 PM
________________
You’re absolutely right!
And neither is the way the Democratic Primary has been run!
Hillary before McCain
McCain before Obama
COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY!!!

Obama’s not going to and shouldn’t back down. I think most swing voters are tired of the crap from the past 8 years. Torture? Secret prisons? Capturing and detaining innocent people just because they have funny sounding names?

Habeas Corpus is neither right nor law, but a writ. Writ as in process. It’s a from of due process that’s been around for over 600 years and is called by its name, Habeas Corpus. Seems to me that a legal term is being used loosely and as a weapon when the word,rights, is attached to it.
I’m not an enthusiastic supporter of Obama, but I don’t like to see his coverage skewed. The subtext that’s being presented on him is he’s soft on terrorists and wants to give them rights much to the danger to the country.
In reality, the kick-ass militarism approach to terrorism has failed miserably and rendered us far less secure. The present infrastructure would not be likely to withstand another terrorist attack. The ports remain largely unprotected. We’ve lost cooperation and respect from nations as a consequence of running roughshod internationally. The call for a different and more restrained approach is actually a strength, which is being contrived as a weakness by some.
I’ve grown used to my posts disappearing, like the one before me which expressed concern over biased reporting. But some of us are just too stubborn to let that discourage us.
It’s ironic that by attacking someone’s strengths, their strengths, in turn, become more visible. Thank you.

“It’s interesting to see McCain extol Giuliani’s national security credentials, given his skepticism of same last Fall, when McCain told the New York Times about the “mayor’s leadership after 9/11″ that “I don’t think it translates, necessarily, into foreign policy or national security expertise. I know of nothing in his background that indicates that he has any experience in it…”
———————-
Please, sir.
When you’re McCain’s age, you won’t be able to keep your facts straight either.

McCain needs to be taken to Gitmoand imprisoned without the possibility without knowing what the charges are, and with no idea of how long he would incarcerated. Perhaps a little torture to get non existant information. That would surly change McCains ctance. The Supreme court ruling gives the detainees the right to say I am innocent and you have the wrong man. It has allready been stated by government officials up to 1/3 of the detainees have been held are innocent. McCain wants to keep innocent imprisoned indefinitely without any legal recourse.
The Constitution is the foundation and core of a Country ruled by law. In it are the freedoms of America and human dignity. The rule of law is the difference between democracies and despots.
Obama has right again,

Most professionals will tell you that when a debate arguement includes, “others” to bolster the arguement, that the arguement usually holds very little water.
McCain in his arguement says in essence that Giuliani says so, so I must be right.
He further mentions, “the American People” would agree with me, and lastly, “an overwhelming majority of Congress. . . . .”
His arguement is not logical. He is only looking to shoot down the opponent as he has nothing better to do.
Looking back at his time in the Senate, he has a proven track record of doing nothing for the State of Arizona.

What’s really frightening is that Obama thinks the world’s evil people are just as stupid and willing to suspend disbelief as are his supporters.
Obama’s handlers are started to limit access to him. That bodes poorly for Barack Hussein, and so does the fact that Obama is scared to death of Town Hall meetings with McCain.

But here’s the thing. Those who support Obama and think he’s really going to bring change are a model of self-deception.
He brought no change to the tenement he was supposed to fix, he brought no change to his district as a state Senator (voting “present” 129 times) and he did nothing as US Senator other than take credit for things he didn’t do.
Take away his script and he’s impotent. Reagan could charm, but he could think and he could do. Obama can speak, but he can’t do squat.

DrJohn
His very words are a change. McCain’s very words keep us on the road to destruction and increasing terrorism…
if you didn’t know terrorist attacks around the world have increased since our invasion of Iraq.
the amount of terrorists around the world and their recruitment has gone up and continues to go up around the world because of this foreign policy and this stupid hateful fear that you all are showing and Bush and McCain want to lead on …because it takes away our number one defense…
that we are right and that we are the noble country.
If we don’t have that…we lose…
but that takes brains and courage to recognize.

I don’t know if you were looking for an answer to the question you ended with. If you were, here’s my two part response:
1. Let me know when you’ve captured Bin Laden, then we can talk.
2. If and when we do capture Bin Laden, give him the same rights we’ve given previous war criminals and terrorists like Hermann Goring, Saddam Hussein, and Timothy McVeigh. In other words, first we try him, then we hang him.

Why don’t you post comments first to last so we don’t have to follow a conversation backwards?

@countallthevotes:
“Cameras are not usually allowed in federal court so no need to worry that it would turn out to be an OJ trial. See Fed. rule of Criminal Procedure 53:”
Good point and thank you. On the other hand, the trial would be televised even if only from court sketches and I suspect a plea for changing the rules for this case would be filed based on public good, right to know, show the world our greatness and so on. It would include the best legal defense team money can buy and the best PR team money can buy. Excerpts would be taken and edited for broadcast in other parts of the world. The editing suite IS the message.
IOW, it would follow the law and still be a disaster for US security. It would be a ratings bonanza. The networks would celebrate. The blogs would go bananas.
Follow the law. Scrupulously.
But realistically, Usama will never be taken alive. His own supporters cannot allow him to be other than a martyr and if his beliefs are as strong as told, neither can he. You can bet there is a supply of US amunition and weapons at the ready in his camp should the need arise and a film of him falling in battle in the can awaiting distribution. All fake but no one cares about that in the audience they are designed to reach.

The Commander Guy, first you are comparing apples to oranges. My comment to BKMC was to point out that 4 of the “honorable people who know what the US Constitution is about and Human Rights and high standards are about” agreed with Sen. McCain.
Now as for your assertion that it was the U. S. Supreme Court who “selected” George W. Bush to be president in 2000, that is the liberal lie that has become their signature mantra. First, in a 7-2 decision, the U. S. Supreme Court ruled that the Florida State Supreme Court violated the U. S. Constitution by allowing counties to count the votes differently during the recount. Then in the now famous 5-4 decision, the U. S. Supreme Court ruled that the Florida State Supreme Court could not change Florida state law as to the dates set forth for certifying the election. Since there was no longer enough time to conduct the complete statewide recount before the certification deadline, THAT ended the recount vote and the original results become the official results. All VP Al Gore had to do was to immediately call for a statewide recount — which was his right. Instead, he attempt to steal the election by cherry picking only a handful of counties with large Democratic majorities to have recounted. It was during this recount that the issue arose as to why different counties were counting the chads differently. The continued going back and forth to the courts for rulings took up the time set aside for recounts by Florida state law. It was the Florida voters who “elected” George W. Bush president.