Retired Gen. Taguba: Bush Administration Committed “War Crimes”

bush is probably going to have to give blanket immunity to anybody who served in his administration

John M. must not be loving this story.
The war that he continues defend…the prisoner policies he continues to defend…the stances on torture that he has switched on to stabilize the right’s support…so he is now kind of (to his own dismay I am fairly positive) defending…
I am sure he must be feeling a little sick to his stomach that the side that is with him…is/are the guys who may be accused of war crimes…
war crimes that must be reminiscent for him to his time in prison camp.
Oh the conflict inside JOhn Mccain’s head.

yea this war is pathetic, this administration is pathetic, i hope they do get charged for these crimes…
i am sad waht they did to our country and our constitution…
this is exactly why john mcsame cant get elected as you his completely in step with the president…

We can’t defend torture. Don’t try.
Bush and his house will have to answer for this and other things.

Interesting he ran the investigation, no one was charged (or found guilty) but these abuses happened, oh thats right the enemy said it did!!
The libs motto, is If the enemy says it happened it must be true, if the US soldier says something they are wrong and a liar!! Creed of a Liberal;!!

OK—understand about torture….and not justified..but let us not forget the beHEADING’s justified because we pray differently to the same GOD(no matter the name)…DAH

Is there no decency in this Country? Whatever happened to presumption of innocence ? I guess it won’t apply if you happen to be an Afghan whose path is crossed with the path of a US army battalion.
On whose authority you people just assume that every one American soldiers are pleased to apprehend in a terrorist and hell bent on killing Americans?
Impeach this criminal administration !!
Clear our name as Americans !

this is not a left/right thing. It’s a moral/ethical thing. Bush et al should go to the Hague.

Either the united states is morally superior to al qaeda or it isn’t.
If the best argument you can give FOR tortue is “well, THEY do it” then you blow any chance of our moral superiority.
In fact, if you are arguing FOR torture then you might as well don a head scarf and pick up an AK-47 and scream “DEATH TO AMERICA”
Americans should not stand for that.

I think Patrick Stewart as Jean-Luc Picard said it best, “Torture has never been a reliable means of obtaining information. It is ultimately self-defeating as a means of control. The only logical purpose for it is … pleasure.”
I guess we as Americans take pleasure in torturing people unable to defend themselves. And we sit and wonder why people in other countries hate us, and would be willing to behead us if given the chance. You reap what you sow.
For those who claim that it is somehow “justified” to do this because “the US Constitution does not protect enemy combatants” – look, there’s a higher law that objects to such barbarism. It’s written in a book far older than the Constitution.
It’s called the Bible.

It isn’t the President?
Does “Commander in Chief” ring a bell here?
Chief = responsible for all….

To the people who still claim all these charges against the White House and Bush are politically motivated from the Democrates are just sheep for slaughter…Weak and plain dumb…There is a ton of proof and hundreds of proven lies the world and our country has been told over the past 8 years by Bush, Cheney, and his fools… Another leader who the country never believed would do anything wrong or lie to them was Adolph Hitler and we all know that story…Karma will prevail Mr. Bush and your God will judge you…

A Crime Against All humanity!
I saw a bumper sticker, “Who Would Jesus Torture?” and I asked myself, “Who Has Been Tortured In The Name Of Jesus”?
Then it dawned on me why so many Christians support this Republican Administration’s torturing of prisoners! How many millions of people have been maimed, dismembered, and burned alive by various religious organizations in the name of God?
Prior to becoming the Republican Presidential nominee, John McCain was an outspoken advocate against this administration’s use of torture. On February 13th 2008, McCain’s most recent endorsement of torture, he voted against the Intelligence Authorization Act and supported George Bush’s veto that would allow the CIA to continue to use inhumane treatment in prisoner interrogations. Who is Mr. McCain pandering to today? Is it the under-thirty Americans that have grown up in a sea of violence and tolerate torture as US Policy? Is it the Conservative talk show hosts who voice approval of torture daily and who’s support he so desperately needs? Or, is it to the far right Conservative Christians, who seem to have forgotten “…whatsoever ye have done to the least of these…ye have done unto me.”
God help America when a tortured Viet Nam War Veteran takes a stand against the Geneva Conventions and supports inhumane behavior!

stop2think – READ MY POST !!!!!!

Spock – “alleged” means that it has been asserted, but not proven in a court of law or admitted by the perpetrators. You seem to be a real expert on what “is” and “is not” torture. Perhaps you should seek emplyment at the White House, they seem to need help in that area.
I think you have it all backwards: traitors are those that destroy the Constitution, not those that try to defend it.
Loyal Americans of both parties need to take back our country.

What a shame if actions are taken to impeach a US President for sex “crimes” while nothing happens to one who commits war crimes by launching his “WAR OF TERROR”.

Good Grief!!!
Where were all of you when GWB was trying to GET IMMUNITY from the UN and the ICC before he went to Bagdad! It was international news. I read it and I’m half blind, and I UNDERSTOOD what was going down even if all of you were too blind or too brain dead to put it all together. Sorry but GWB has done so much for IMPEACHMENT that a REASONABLE person would have done so before now and often!
thanks
stella

Stephen says: Taguba is a traitor and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Since when does the US constitution protect enemy combatants trying to kill Americans? Oh yes…I guess since last week when Justice Kennedy decided that it did. America has been turned upside down by the leftist radicals now in control of the Congress,courts, media, and academia.
——
Um, Reagan appointed Justice Kennedy. So Reagan’s a leftist radical?

mateo,
This war is for oil, not for terrorism. Who make money out of this war?…. Oil companies, …… and who are the share holders of these companies… who are the shareholder of Haliburton….. Now go and think

Why is this not ABC’s TOP STORY????

What is really sad isn’t what Bush has done. It’s what we haven’t done as a decent people and nation. If this was going down in the 60′s there would be riots and protest but now unfortantly we just complain about it on the internet. I’m kind of sick of my generation. WE need a new american revealution!

The report admits that it does not have the medical records of the 11 detainees prior to being detained. However, since we know that a few rogue soldiers at Abu Ghraib did, in fact, do some of the things that the report alleges, then those detainees that were in Abu Ghraib may well have been tortured by the rogue soldiers. Question is were those that were detained in Guantanamo also in Abu Ghraib before being held in Guantanamo? Could they have sustained their injuries in Abu Ghraib? Then again, could they or any of the others have sustained their injuries before they were EVER detained? In other words, could the torturing have actually been committed by al Qaeda so that these injuries can later be claimed to have occurred while in American detention? The report does say that these individuals, during their training with al Qaeda, were instructed to claim that they were tortured. What better way to corroborate the claim than to already have positive proof of such torture — positive proof that cannot pin point when the torture occurred.

This inst about extending protections to foreigners under the constitution it is about the president and his administration acting like war criminals and ignoring the constitution. My “liberal” mind doesn’t agree with the Supreme courts ruling – it is historically incorrect but that doesn’t make BushCo right about war, torture and ignoring the constitution, congress and the American people.
Bush and Cheney need to be imprisoned for what they have done.

I never thought that I would see the day when Americans would defend the use of torture. What is wrong with you people? These detainees have never been proven guilty of anything, and if they are guilty, then they should have their right to stand trial.
I’d like to remind you that it’s our soldiers who have to witness and participate in these acts, and it’s our soldiers who are returning with the highest rates of PTSD ever experienced in any war. Don’t you think there is a connection? I do.
After serving in the military for ten years, I now work in the VA and I’ve spoken with soldiers stationed at prisons in Iraq and Europe who have seen our country torture human beings and it is hard for them to handle knowing that our country has become the enemy to everything America is supposed to stand for. One soldier told me that he witnessed our government perpetrate acts that no one should ever have to see. Is this what you want our soldiers to endure in our names?
If you want to support the troops, as do I, then you need to support the Constitution and rule of law and help protect our soldiers from being forced to witness and perpetrate these heinous crimes against humanity.

Hey, Oracle..”We hold these truths to be self-evident…” was in the Declaration of Independence – not the Constitution as you said. Big difference. One is law the other isn’t. Are all your facts that bogus?

I believe this is why most of my niehgbors hate most Americans in my city they live all on my block 3 blocks here, I feel so fearful of them I did nothing to them

GHM:
I saw a bumper sticker yesterday that said:
“End term limits, Bush/Cheney Four More Years”
I was so stunned, I almost crashed my car.
When I got home, I began checking the local papers for stories about escaped mental institution patients. I couldn’t believe ANYONE in their right mind would suggest that.

Actually, that is a good point: Why doesn’t somebody ask proud Cindy is she proud of US torture over NVA torture?

I’m not a Bush fan but dont blame just him. He listened to the wrong people and like Mr Obama, he was just plain naive.

You cannot blame Senator Mccain for embracing torture. He experienced how effective it was when the vietnamese used it on him to obtain America’s secrets. Mccain was forced to do what will cause him to be labelled a traitor in other countries but the United States ignored that because evidence obtained under duress never stands in any court of law. The problem is not that we condone terrorism. We dont. Any terrorist should be paid to pay accordingly and we must distinguish between Prisoners of war and the real terrorists. All the same, we should not allow innocent people to suffer in the guise of being labelled terrorists. The United States is the foundation of human rights and we should never sacrifice that on the altar of fighting against terrorists.

i meant every terrorist should be made to pay accordingly. Typo error.

The truth is finally coming out. I hope the leaders responsable for war crimes will face justice. We are a nation of laws, honor and concience. Our honor and pride must be restored around the world and justice must be serve. Let the inocent go free and let those guilty pay for their deeds.

Where do some of idiots come from? I served in the Navy as a pilot. Anyone who has served in the military must read with disgust the reports of abuse of prisoners by U.S. Military and other representatives of the U.S. government. General Antonio Taguba was a highly decorated officer in the U.S. Army and he utilized the best investigative resources he had to determine the extent of abuse at Abu Gharib and other prisons in Iraq. He found significant proof of wide spread abuse. Many of the internal reports were classified and not released for public review.
In John McCain’s April 8, 1974 thesis on
“The Code of Conduct and Viet Nam Prisoners of War” he gave clear understanding of what is torture and how it was used to destroy the lives of American service men.
Now a bunch of idiots, who I am sure never served in the military service, are berating people who tell the truth about what this country has become under the twisted putrescent administration of G.W. Bush

That 3% that still supports bush has just dropped to 2%. I think cheney still supports bush.

Keep jabbing at us “bots” for it is the GOP and good ole W who are responsible.

2005 interview with Tim Russert on Meet the Press, he made it very clear.
**************************
RUSSERT: The fact is you are different than George Bush.
SEN. McCAIN: No. No. The fact is that I’m different but the fact is that I have agreed with President Bush far more than I have disagreed. And on the transcendent issues, the most important issues of our day, I’ve been totally in agreement and support of President Bush.

No patriotic American, regardless of general political outlook, could, in my mind, ever defend or support the bush administration. We really don’t have a political party that promotes conservatism. The republican party has been co-opted by pro-big-government and pro-military devotees of kook religion and immorality. Our founding fathers tried to prevent America from becoming what it has now become, an immoral, militaristic empire serving the interests of a tiny ruling class. Conservatives used to stand for our Constitution, free speech, morality, and limited government. There is nothing more big-government than a bloated military machine used to prosecute immoral wars of agression. America is one very sick puppy, filled with amoral and immoral, complacent wage slaves who bear no resemblance to the proud, freedom-loving people who founded this country.

I’m not at all surprised. I hope the international community does it’s job by bringing to justice those involved.

I want to know whether Mr. Bush and his minions will be held accountable in the US or World courts. I believe that they should be tried for war crimes, just as we’ve insisted with other criminal regimes.

It’s very simple. Do to the administration what was done to those detainees and then ask them if it’s torture or not. While your at it, ask them what really happened on 911.
I find it down right unfair that I as an American am being judged by the world by what this administration does.

Information is the key to understanding. Not all have fully understood,in my opinion,the great injustice done to these people.I certainly hadnt.Call me ignorant if you must, but I had honestly thought I was informed until I had enough time on my hands to start really digging into the issues of today. For instance, I assumed that all of the “detainees” were already guilty and awaiting sentencing. Therefore I was all for what ever means necessary to get information out of them to secure our country from further terror acts. I hadn’t put together that “detainees” were another word for POW’s. Still limitted in my understanding, yet searching for what is REALLY going on, I can now see where my first error was in trusting completely in my Governments actions and the idealistic theory that as Americans we strived for fair treatment. With the information I have at this time, in my opinion, those who knew of this crime,ordered these crimes,could have stopped these crimes…all should be held accountable. But if it is like what I have been noticing more and more in my search…the lower level accountable will pay for the actions of all. Our Government needs a clean sweep in my opinion. a DRASTIC clean sweep.

Marine (I doubt it);
As one who served in the military, I can say with absolute certainty that sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, and stress positions are ABSOLUTELY NOT standard military training techniques. These techniques are used to train special forces personnel how to resist their effects, but they are NOT used on any other members of the military.
The investigation into the abuses committed at Abu Ghraib dispel your belief that no US soldier would participate in such acts. These soldiers got caught up in the madness surrounding them, and let their naivete cloud their judgement. On top of that, we have a fair number of sadistic people in our armed forces, along with a good number who think, as George W. Bush does, that those in the custody of the military are guilty until proven innocent and that torture is justifiable.
The Bush administration works to deny these prisoners access to the “evidence” against them, using the excuse that giving them access to the evidence would expose how the US gathers intelligence. The administration is not concerned with whether any of these people are innocent, as they have already made up their minds that they are not.
You need to get your facts straight and start looking at things from an objective viewpoint. It would also help if you’d stop drinking the KoolAid Bush keeps handing you.

Obama pen pal…
do you know what habeas (typ-o) corpus means?
yeah …you don’t.

Will both the left and right get over themselves and see that this country is slowly becoming a dictatorship, where the wealthy, greedy, and corrupt politicians are unsurping our already limited power to have a say in our government.

and NORM, what in the world is that reasoning/logic about?? they only understand violence, so its fine if we break the rule of law and the Geneva conventions and every other moral standard that we try to set for the world.
If we are no better acting than these people who you speak of, than what is the point in trying to turn them on a democracy?? if thier eventual end point is only going to bring them back to the same type of society that they live in -one that does not respect the rule of law- why should they even try for it?? might as well remain a theocracy at that point, no? think about it.

wow, somebody in the know is telling the truth!….rock on

Mr. Robinson,
I can assure that I’m no dim witted, blind follower of President Bush, nor any other elected official for that matter. What I can speak to, as an eyewitness and participant, is reason for, and manner in which, the “detainees” are rendered. And at no point did I state that “no soldier” would committ atrocities. Atrocities are, tragically, a fact of war, much the same as the blight of crime is a fact of human existence. What I did mention, maybe not clearly enough, is that the overwhelming majority of our service men and women are committed to completing the mission without committing atrocities. A “fact” that is seemingly never reported. Now I understand that this is an election year and that polarized individuals will make extreme statements. I take issue, however, with reports like the one spawning this discussion, which cast a pall over the heroic, however unheralded, service of our military personnel. I would honestly like to believe that this General (ret.) made a sincere and dutiful report, as per his mission, but his extreme statement about “war crimes” simply doesn’t ring true with myself, or anyone else that I know who has, or is currently serving in the areas in question. As to your assertion that the mentioned methods of “torture” are not standard training methods employed by the US military, I again take issue. I hesitate to consider ranger school ‘special forces training’, yet everyone who attends that school is subjected to sleep deprivation for months, as well as temperature extremes. Yet thousands have attended and I think that you’d be hard pressed to find many who considered that torture. How about Parris Island, did you, perhaps, spend a week “snapping in” on the rifle range? If so, I’m sure you would consider that grueling week of “sling arm” and forced hours and days of the convoluted “sitting position” as “stress positions”. I’ve read one “torture” report where a “detainee was forced to stand in one place for several hours without moving, chained to a wall”, I wonder what in “our” past training could then be considered torture. Finally, I find it shocking that as a former military serviceman you have such little faith in the men and women who serve our country. How many individuals, out of the hundreds of thousands (millions?) that have served since Sept. 11, have been charged with any atrocities? The number is so overwhelmingly small that if it were a political statistic it wouldn’t even be worth mentioning. Does that excuse their transgression, absolutely not, but let’s not forget that it was another military service person that was responsible for reporting these acts. I completely disagree with your assertion that we have “fair” number of sadistic people in the service. The fact of the matter is that there simply isn’t an institutional cruelty mindset within the military. Perhaps I’m not the most objective person in the world. After all, I’ve witnessed, across the military spectrum, incredible acts of bravery, courage and compassion among military personnel, in support of the citizenry in Afghanistan and Iraq.

BR, it is not WHAT YOU CALL them but the CIRCUMSTANCES in which you detain them. Either you are seeking them out as criminals, in which case the American justice system applies; or they are detained during a war. The latter is what we have. This is war! Ask Congress, they are the ones funding the War on Terror! And in case you aren’t aware of it, the 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force passed by Congress states:
Sec. 2. (a) “IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.”
Sec. 2. (b) (1) “SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.”

The rantings of retired Army Maj. General Antonio Taguba is more garbage the media loves to dig out of malcontents in our society. If anyone should be claiming something its the Army on this guys service record. No doubt he was forced out because of the nagging he was giving his superiors. So they gave him is Honorable Discharge retirement and now he gets a pension from the country he appears to hate. Its now very hard to give any Military Personnel a bad conduct discharge because of the political correctness society has instituted into all forms of the US government. Even if a person was a mass murderer they could not state it because of lawsuits (not that he is that bad, but its an example of political correctness gone amok). Basically take what this guy says with a grain of salt.

The geneva conventions only apply to signatories of the conventions. If the nation is not a signatory they are not afforded the “protection” of the geneva conventions. Iraq is not a signatorie of the conventions, niether are a number of the other nations in the middle east. As such they deserve no special treatment and have no protection. 3rd Geneva Convention article 4, covers the identification of POW’s. The terrorists fail on parts c and D at least and arguably on a and b. 4th Geneva convention article 4 indicates “Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it.” We set the standard just like we did in the first part of the 1800′s with the barbary pirates.
It is unfortunate that many Iraqi’s are caught in the crossfire. Just as it was unfortunate millions of germans and japanese were caught in the flames of war. Our job is to win though and better they are the ones suffering death than us. sorry I’m just prejudiced that way. I’m very glad we lost only half a million soldiers in wwII and the germans and japanese lost millions of soldiers and civilians. I’m not unsympathetic, war is not a wonderful thing but when it takes place it is and will be awful but you do what is necessary to win. It’s not apples and oranges, it’s been that way forever.

Charles W. Under your logic only small handful of Americans have free speech, the rest of us are second class citizens. You are no here if all you gained from combat was a sense of entitlement to stop everyone else’s speech. The American way is that we all have a voice and that our government is limited by the constitution and subject to the rule of law.
The prisoners we tortured were not in a combat zone -they were in prison and their guards were not combat soldiers, they were prison guards. Bush committed war crimes. That makes him a disgrace to this country and a traitor.
Your service may have been honorable Charles, but your commander-in-chief is not an honorable. I hope you raise your kids to be skeptical of our leaders.
If you read accounts of the American Revolution you will see that blind obedience was not encourage. The Patriots who fought, including my ancestors, spoke out on all manner of military matters

For Bush administration officials, chain of command and acting in official capacity giving unlawful orders…it is all over but the shouting.
The only question is will the remain on U.S. soil so no one is able to take them to the Hague or any other tribunal whose citizens were caught in that web.

Happy JUNEteenth!
Saps.

The U. S. justice system has NEVER previously been afforded to detainees taken during war (and that includes our own Civil War). In WWII there were some 300,000 German POWs detained under American command. NOT ONE of these had their day in court. They were not released until Germany surrendered. In fact, the U. S. Supreme Court back then specifically ruled that a writ of habeas corpus did NOT apply to foreign aliens detained outside of the United States, even if detained by Americans. So when we detained these terrorist as “enemy combatants,” it was under the previous ruling by the U. S. Supreme Court. This most recent decision overturned that previous WWII ruling.
President Bush issued orders early on that the detainees, in spite of not falling under the Geneva Convention’s definition of “prisoners of war” and therefore not specifically covered by the Geneva Convention, were to BE AFFORED the same treatment that is outlined within the Geneva Convention. There were only three exceptions, that being the three individuals who were waterboarded. And these three individuals provided enough details that it has thus far enabled us to foil all subsequent attempts at further attacks. The other cases of torture that is alleged to have occurred was not a part of the systematic treatment of these detainees. It was abuse by rogue soldiers.
Many of you are complaining about how that the Bush Administration has trampled on the U. S. Constitution. Are you aware that the U. S. Constitution gives ONLY the Legistative and Executive branches the authority over war decisions? The President, as Commander-in-Chief, is given the sole authority regarding decisions made “on the battlefield.” Congress has the sole authority to declare war and to appropriate the money to finance the war. Then there are some areas in which both the Congress and President share responsibility. In these areas Congress can place limits on the power of the President. But where there are no restrictions the President is free to act (pending post-action limitations).
The U. S. Supreme Court has NO authority regarding war decisions! Therefore it usurped the authority of that of the Legislative and Executive branches. So it was the U. S. Supreme Court that has trampled on the U. S. Constitution. That is what happens when you have activist judges rather than strict constructionists.

“Just because torture is something we did, doesn’t mean it’s something we would do.” – Jon Stewart

To those that have been in a war zone, we understand that war is ugly as hell. Nothing pretty about it. We live in an ‘information age’ where one cannot do anything without it being reported; unprecedented in our history. There were reporters (lots of them, believe me) out in the bush in Vietnam; what was the difference in reporting? I don’t know; My Lai was widely reported and was probably a ‘whitewash’ when it came to handing out ‘punishment’ for the ‘torture’ that went on there. The problem is that when one is in a war zone, it is difficult, if not impossible to remain objective. This is not to excuse ‘torture’ in any manner of speaking. There are no easy answers here. We would all like easy answers. We would like to have our military honor restored around the globe. How do we do that? I am not sure. I remember during one operation, a reporter was hanging about and my boss pulled a 9 millimeter and suggested he leave the area. Please don’t forget two things: War is hell, and the enemy does things to our soldiers that is never reported for worldwide consumption.

…he gets a pension from the country he appears to hate. <– typical inflammatory blind lock-step, attack the messenger, conservative crap we always hear from conservative apologists.
It reminds me of "They hate us for our freedom" and "we know Exactly where they (WMDs) are…" and "Dead or Alive" where are the WMDs, Where is Osama" WHERE ARE THE ANTHRAX TERRORISTS!?
…9-11 was the imputes for war, Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, was NOT a threat, they had NO WMDs and bush KNEW IT! BUSH WANTED THE OIL!!! and he was willing to lie, torture, & murder to get it!
The OIL MONOPOLIES are pulling an ENRON on us and it's going to plunge us into another GREAT DEPRESSION!
CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE! Bring back tariffs & bring back American Industry!
with the PNAC crowd in charge we have seen 9-11 (pear harbor) Katrina corruption in the White House, DOJ, obstruction of justice in a TREASON case, unPatriot act, Katrina, torture in Abu Ghraib prison, spying, cheneys SECRET energy task force,record deficit, $136 billion corporate tax cut, 380 tons of explosives in Iraq, ENRON, mortgage fraud, millions of Americans loosing their homes, jobs, health care, MONOPOLIES taking over our government, and the list goes on and on and on… stop making excuses, it's time for BIG BIG CHANGES, get the BIG MONEY out of government, break up the MONOPOLIES, BRING BACK THE CONSTITUTION & RESTORE DEMOCRACY!!!

What is real torture is having to put up with BUSH for 5 more months..BUSH and CHENEY are WAR CRIMINALS PERIOD.

Go on vilifying Pres. Bush and by extension America herself,
self-righteous gents.
You can have the luxury of burning your country’s flag without fear of prosecution.While the enemies who want to destroy America enjoy the legal protection of the American Supreme Court.If this is not True Democracy then
i don’t know how to call it.
The American torturers are exposed and
condemned,at least morally,by Americans
themselves.The enemy torturers and murderers of Americans,and of their
own people too, are hailed as heroes
by their leaders and by not a few
American citizens who pride themselves
as being “pr0gressive”,”liberal”,”br0ad
minded” and so on.
The Elder Vlad The Bad once said smugly that the Capitalists were selling him with credit the rope he will use to hang them.
The enemies of America today, among them the Younger Vlad The Bad, would
say along that she is raising the generation of citizens who will hang
her for them, for free.
If you think that the w0rld minus
America would be a better place, then go ahead.
GOD Blesses America !
For being so tolerant.

Little by little the noose is tightening around war criminals Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Pearle, Bolton and their gang. It will be a great day to see them go to their just reward, through the courts system, which is a luxury they have been so willing to deny others.
Taguba was asked to report then his results were silenced. We’re glad to see him back in the spotlight, following up on the original report. Someday we will look on these last few years as the darkest of US modern history. If these people are not brought to justice, America will not regain its respect and honor. We are too good a country to have allowed this!

Torture.. everyone says they tortured… A dog barking in your face is what these jerks are calling torture, skipping a meal is what they are describing as torture. standing on your feet for 8hrs is being described as torture. Being woken up in the middle of the night is being described as torture. Getting too hot from no AC is torture, or too cold from too much AC is torture. If this is the case then every corporation in america is guilty of torture for having AC installed when someone gets cold at work, then they’d be guilty for removing the units. Any infant would be guilty of “torture” because they wake parents up in the middle of the night constantantly. Construction workers are “tortured” because they work in the sun and are on their feet all day. Anyone who has to skip a meal because they snoozed too many times to get to work ontime is being tortured by their boss who expects them to be at work.
PLEASE you’re all quite ignorant. Educate yourselves on what torture truly is… look up what the japanese did on a constant and daily basis to our POW’s in WWII, (and if you have a gentle stomach avoid any information regarding to what they did to our women POW’s.) watch the movie “The Great Raid”. Watch the movie “escape from Sobibor” for an idea on “torture” Nazi style. Look up the Gestapo and the “techniques” they used to truly torture. Look farther back to the roman empire and their methods of execution… THAT was torture. Look at the soviet unions death camps, MILLIONS DIED OF TORTURE at the hands of the soviets just like they did at the hands of the Nazi’s. Compared to those examples none of our soldiers or leaders are guilty of torture. If anything they are guilty of being inconvenient to the captor. After all they are allowed to observe their religion, not something our POW’s are allowed. They are fed better than some of your free american neighbors. Heck they’ve eaten better than my family before when we went through some hard times. This “torture” garbage is just that GARBAGE. I’ve studied the romans, persians, I’ve been to the remains of the Nazi concentration camps in Germany, I’ve studied the Bataan “DEATH MARCH” and the treatment of our military personal by the Japanese in WWII. Educate yourselves on what real torture and inhumane treatment is before you go calling your fellow Americans and our soldiers torturers. Your pathetic mantra about everything being Bush’s fault is ignorant and boring.

Is the President and his administration guilty of war crimes? If you think that is the case, just remember that you are alive and able to think so only because of the things that they have done in the past five years. We have a group of people that have a declaration of war against us, the United States of America!! Not just our military, not just our government, but you sitting there at your computer reading this now…they want to kill you!!!! Think about that for one second!!!! They want you dead, they want all of us dead!!!! The government has done what it can under the law to keep us safe…Have the rules been bent…yea probably…but remember this, they are making this up as they go…never in the history of this country have we faced an enemy like this!!! Not only are those we’re fighting willing to blow themselves up in order to kill you and me, but they are willing to die for their “spiritual” leaders…so how are we to protect our country and the lives of her citizens when the Intel we need lies in such an enemy???? We get the info from them the best way we can while we still keep these people/animals alive…we feed them…we provide for their wellbeing, medically and such…they are then released alive!!! How are these war crimes???? There are some still being detained…yea there are still those out there trying to kill you, so isn’t logical to still have prisoners of war that could very well have secrets to stop your death…shouldn’t they still be kept detained until we can get this info from them??? If you say no then i guess you want to die
To conclude has everything in this “War” …that’s right war has been declared on us and no matter what you hear it is still ongoing…gone to plan? No. Has mistakes been made? Yea. Does this mean that our government war criminals?? No. We are the country who admits its mistakes and tries to do what is right while in the end protecting your right to live…Instead of pointing fingers just say thank you

For those of you who compare “our torture” to what outside groups have put their prisoners through, there’s a HUGE difference:
1) WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS!!!
2) THEY FOLLOW NO LAWS!!!
Also, we weren’t just torturing terrorists; we were torturing anyone we SUSPECTED of being terrorists. That usually meant anyone in a home that was SUSPECTED of harboring a terrorist…men, women and children. Children were sodomized at Abu Ghuraib under the watchful eyes of American personnel.
Remember when Donald Rumsfeld said that Guantanamo Bay held the “worst of the worst”. So why have we released or going to release nearly 2/3rds of those prisoners???

BUSH and CHENEY are WAR CRIMINALS..Pure and simple. They both should be arrested,tried in a court of law and sent to prison.NOTHING LESS.These two have murdered thousands. They are mass murders in every sense of the word.

The morally ignorant will equate torture on the part of the US with strength, saying indefensible things:
“They’re not part of the Geneva Convention so they don’t deserve human rights.”
“If you don’t want to be tortured, don’t be a terrorist.”
“It’s for the greater good.”
The fact is, terrorism is motivated by ideologies and perceptions – not for ‘political gain’. If we as a nation lower ourselves to their level, how can we claim to be any better, morally-speaking, than those we oppose?
But let’s look at each of those moronic arguments, shall we?
Geneva Convention: Never applied to civilians or ‘enemy combatants’ and this is true. However ever since the the 1948 UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the ‘Geneva Convention’ rules have been largely supplanted by the notion that all persons have inherent human rights. Freedom from torture and unlawful imprisonment ARE mentioned.
Don’t be a terrorist to avoid torture: The US believes in innocence until proven guilty. A person suspected of being a terrorist is NOT a terrorist before the law until proven so in court. None of these people have seen a courtroom. Many have been released and those in the report were released without trial or charges. Technically, they’re not terrorists to begin with – and aren’t until they are convicted of being so. That’s the way the US justice system works. So this argument lets you torture convicted terrorists, but then, that would be inhumane, huh?
Greater Good: Whose? If we torture our detainees, what’s to keep the others from torturing theirs (or our troops/citizens when they’re captured)? How can we call foul when we’re doing the same thing (degrees of difference mean nothing, by the way)? We can’t be the moral police if we have no better morals upon which to stand.
The United States of America has been led by a frightened, incompetent boob who thinks that might makes right and will do ‘anything’ to ‘secure the US against terrorist attack’ – as long as ‘anything’ involves violence, armed force and intrusions into privacy, destruction of civil liberties and the denial of human rights. This has included violations of human rights of non-residents as well as the constitutional rights of everyone in the US. Very little of this combats terrorism at its roots.
The United States is big enough, strong enough and moral enough to stay true to ourselves and win without stooping to tactics that are both inhumane and hypocritical to the message we put out. If we torture our prisoners (among other human rights violations) as do many other repressive regimes against which we fight, we have no moral basis to claim the title, “Greatest Nation On Earth”. And we don’t deserve it until we can prove to the world that our system is any better than theirs.
So far, we’re not doing too well.

Karl, the U. S. Constitution gives war decision making powers to only the Legislative and Executive branches. Following two previous U. S. Supreme Court rulings, Congress passed laws that were to insure military tribunals for those who are to be tried; and to keep the other detainees out of the American judicial system. Once again, the U. S. Supreme Court has usurped the constitutional authority granted to the Congress. Incidentally there is precedence — on point — in ignoring the U. S. Supreme Court. President Abraham Lincoln ignored a ruling by the U. S. Supreme Court that his suspension of the writ of habeas corpus was unconstitutional and continued to hold AMERICAN CITIZENS in prison camps without habeas corpus!!

Once again, the U. S. Supreme Court has usurped the constitutional authority granted to the Congress.
Posted by: James Danley | Jun 21, 2008 12:41:15 PM
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It is the United States Supreme Court that is charged with interpreting the laws and deciding their constitutionality, not the Congress. The case that established the principle of judicial review is Marbury v. Madison.

Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution they gave Congress the power to declare war.

HAHA I have to laugh… someone actually believes the “liberals” stand for personal “liberty”, hahaha… I’m sorry. Personal liberty means smaller government. Smaller government means less taxes, less government programs, less welfare, less government health care, less regulation of fuel, less regulation on economy, less regulation on housing less regulation on trade. ALL of which are heavily regulated by the liberals who want a government program for everything. Price fixing, to profit tax, death tax, to resouce management, to government healthcare, government retirement/aka social security, government welfare, government controlled unemployment, take your pick… all of these are “liberal” projects that rob americans of their liberty to choose by forcing them into government programs. Government is bigger badder and larger because of the “liberals” who in truth are not liberal, but socialists and communists under a different name. They believe in government being responsible for everything, which is socialism, and they believe in the redistribution of wealth, ie everyone but them deserve to be poor, which is communism. A true conservative (bear in mind many claim conservative but are just liberals who want government programs for their own ends), wants far less on tax, actual CUTS in government programs (defense against foreign powers is infact a responsibility of the federal government and a legitimate expense), they want the 17th amendment repealed and power shifted back to the states by restoring the senators back to state government appointment rather than general election, and finaly term limits on the whole legislature and the supreme court.
Neither of the candidates are desirable from a conservatives stand point. But it is maddening as a soldier to keep seeing people want to up and quit on us. Me and two of my best friends are in the military, my friends both have served two tours over seas one on his third tour (this time afghanistan instead of iraq), and we’ll keep going back because we want to WIN. Quitters NEVER WIN… Sure, end the war, the enemy wants us to just end the war because that means we quit and they win by default. Obama and the democrat party wants to do just that. They want to give our enemies every comfort and protection under our constitution and more, when previously they would fall under military tribunal as they have throughout our 200 yr history. Only today does the supreme court and the democrat party decide that they have to have all the rights of an american citizen. It makes no sense by either our treaties, our constitution or legal precedent. The rights are not theirs to have they are not americans, and they forfeit their “human” rights when they became terrorists.

No tyrant in history has lacked sufficient numbers of people willing to torture and murder helpless victims of their regime, or to at least support those actions. Call them the bad people. Some others have refused to participate in the slaughter. Call them the good people. Now that Bush stands revealed as a war criminal and torturer, we can separate the good from the bad in our own society. Those who continue to support Bush and his policies are the bad people, with all that entails. The good people want a change.

Wow… I really admire the sense of “fight” here…
The soldiers really could have used all of you people when al-Qaeda was bombing hundreds in the streets, dumping bodies in the Tigris, and holding death squads.
Oh that’s right… You were talking about the illegal war.

I hoped a general officer would come forth as did John Batiste in the notification of th world that that ALL people in any way associated with George Walker Bush, would be brought to the criminal docket to face charges of mass murder, RICO crimes, US Constitutional crimes, crimes against International Law and Crimes against Humanity. This is an historic first in the short but sordid HISTORY of the United States of America.