Scenes from a Divorce

wow
The Clinton campaign wanted to give Obama ZERO delegate from the Michigan primary?
wow
unbelievable.
After Michigan broke the party rules they actually believed the DNC rulings committee would pass the motion to give Hillary 73 delegates and Obama ZERO?
What’s going on with the Clinton campaign?
Anything to win.

Let’s not forget that the Obama campaign was three mouse clicks away from flooding that meeting with its own supporters.
Let’s not let the partisan opinions of a vocal few stand as a representation of popular opinion in America.
There are quite a few Obama supports that could fashion some lovely posters and author some catchy chants that are a bit more fact based about the Clintons.
Fortunately, the Obama campaign is led by adults.

^^he got the “uncomitted” votes.^^
Voters didn’t vote for Hussein. His name is not “uncommitted.”

It astounds me how the votes in our state are being manipulated.
The simple truth is that the election should not have counted. Everybody knows it. So a compromise solution is reached? Apparently, to some of Clinton’s supporters the only reasonable compromise would be to just give Senator Clinton the nomination because, after all, doesn’t she just deserve it?
Also, by many of the comments here, if you support Obama you must be a US-hating, woman-hating, left wing radical. The efforts of those of you to skew the truth will fail; there are many of us who are conservative and see through your veil of deceipt.

The democrats can never again complain about voter disenfranchisement or fair elections. Any moral high road they had on the issue has now evaporated. This is a sad day indeed. Do the people have a party that represents them?

By the way, when the election is basically “Clinton” vs “Uncommitted” you can be pretty darn sure that the “Uncommitted’s” wanted anyone but Clinton. Some people here have absolutely no sense of decency or shame.

^^…when the election is basically “Clinton” vs “Uncommitted” you can be pretty darn sure that the “Uncommitted’s” wanted anyone but Clinton.^^
Is “uncommitted” a person, or a candidate???
SHE won the election. She should get ALL 38 delegates, not the compromised 19.

==Paula Abdrool and the rest on here saying he is getting votes that he shouldn’t have gotten…==
So far, so good.
==…what about the votes that she got from epole who voted for her since her name was right there and thinking this wasn’t going to count anyway…==
What about it?? Her name was there, and they marked it. Isn’t THAT what they’re supposed to do???
==would you have rather the state didn’t get seated…because a mojority of the committee actually believed that it shouldn’t have counted…and they voted for the splitting to compromise…==
As a voter, I would have resented and been appalledat my vote being compromised into half value. I would have intended by vote to be full value.
==the state of Michigan dems wanted this… the only ones that didn’t were Hillary supporters because they don’t care about the voters really…they care about her.==
Ummm, that’s what elections are about, babe.

intended by vote >>>> intended my vote

Challenge to Jake:
1)Find precedent in the Rules for the Michigan decision to steal 4 of Clinton delegate votes and attribute them to Obama.
2)Find precedent in the Rules to ignore “uncommitted,” when that is an official designation/category as defined in the Rules, and attribute them to a candidate not on the ballot, especially given that there were many other contenders for “uncommitted.”
Jake, not in the Rules.
“Uncommitted” were split by Obama and Edwards and perhaps some of the other candidates. The proper ruling would have been to keep the designation as “uncommitted” and have the candidates solicit their support. That would have been according to the rules. If, indeed, “uncommitted” was really a reflection of true Obama support, these delegates would have then supported Obama anyway.
This is a travesty and forever taints this nomination process. It sets a frightening precedent, IMHO.

“You know who is backing him is George Soros. It’ll be George Soros, not Obama, who is running the country.”
George Soros? Grrr Maybe it’s true because the most Hungarian is corrupt.
Soros is from Hungary just like me. The first time in my adult life I’m not proud of my country. How the hell can be a Hungarian so idiot?

I believe that it was very generous of the Clinto camp to award Obama all of the MI delegates associated with the uncommitted vote to Obama. But to take 4 delegates from Clinton and give them to Obama is outrageous!

==WE ALL KNOW THE ELECTIONS IN MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA DONT COUNT==
Soooo, one man, one vote except in MI and FLA. We understand that. I wonder whether the voters in those states understood that when they cast their ballots.

hillary voters can think for themselves and they see BO for what he is without receiving any “messages.”
His associations and record, such as it is, speak for themselves.
He is the least unifying candidate I have seen in a long time.

These voters, who will go over to a moderate republican this time, john mccain, are leaving the dem party, many of them reregistering as unaffiliated. many of us have been in the part 35 to 40 years…and always held our nose and voted for the dem pick, no matter what kind of loser they came up with. THAT IS OVER. WE WILL NOT BE TAKEN FOR GRANTED AND WE ARE LEAVING. GET IT? GOOD.
oh and btw….a Nixon appointed judge wrote Roe. And no Roe? just goes back to the states, many of which already have no abortion availability. Won’t be our problem. no more ROE blackmail for us. LOL.

If the rules are rules than why the hell changed this rules yesterday?

==They say they don’t care that McCain is conservative, it doesn’t bother them that he will likely appoint that final Supreme Court Justice who will vote to overturn Roe v Wade. ==
That would be one way of doing it, but not the only way.
All we have to do is define “personhood” as starting at conception, and VOILA! Several states are doing this now cuz they noticed, in Roe, that SCOTUS would have had to rule the other way had it not been for the fact that “personhood” was not before the Court; and, so, the Court had no choice but to recognize the woman as the only person.
So, now, states are zeroing in on “personhood” which would change “undue burden” to “due burden.”
After all, Jefferson said that the Right to life starts at our being created. Pro-choice=pro-abortion=wrong-choicers disagree with Jefferson. They say that the Right to life begins at birth, even though it’s clear something was created before then.
Then, you got those who claim to be homosexual who say that they were created homosexual, even though, in reality, they were not, of course, but they agree with Jefferson and not with the pro-choice=pro-abortion=wrong-choice crowd.
We need to know when this Right to life begins so that we can apply the law to those who, as persons, should be protected cuz, afer all, Due Process applies ONLY to persons.

As someone else suggested, most of these comments are from spoilers. It is over.
Let it go.
It is time to heal the Party and the Country.

^^Nancy “With Shady millionaire-contractor Husband” Pelosi, John “Dumped His Wife for Heinz’s Rich Widow” Kerry and Ted “Too Bad Mary Jo Couldn’t Save Herself” Kennedy.^^
I love it!
Say, refresh my memory; Kennedy NEVER was held to account, was he? Got away with it.

REAL DEMOCRATS are for MCAIN !!!!

–good riddance to all who would consider voting for mccain because of this
another 4000+ dead (something hillary is vehemently against)
ON YOUR HANDS
a red pair of shoes would go great with that blood on your hands.–
Lookit that fear-mongering from the Hussein camp!

Omentum
You sound like a broken record. Can’t you come up with something original?

==Obama’s ideals were set long before he began this race. ==
Within the last, say, twenty years…in THAT church.

^^And you use fear to try to do it.
Posted by: Mr. Incredible | Jun 1, 2008 10:58:04 AM
*******
No I use HISTORY to prove it.^^
Very much steeped in fear-mongering.
^^I don’t like having my phone tapped.^^
Unless you are a terrorist, or your number is on one-a them phones/laptops that was captured on the battlefield, you yours isn’t.
^^My husband’s last name is Russian. He works for Chrysler and spent 6 months in Beijing China. The Government tapped our phone. Blocked calls they deemed suspicious, like from our Orthodontist!! ^^
So?

I have a suggestion to all of the Sen. Clinton supporters,
leave this blog space right now,
do not communicate with the obama supporters,
they will not convience us that obama is qualifed to be president.
and we will not be able to get them to understand that obama would not be where he is without the help of the msm and the dem party bigwigs.
obama being in the lead has nothing to do with qualifications, he is not ready.
so sen. clinton supporters just stop blogging with obama supporters-
because most of their blogs consist of them trying to convience themselves he is qualified-in spite of the fact they see sen. clinton runs circles around him on the issues. and they know he does not know what he is doing and they know he is being spoon fed everything he says. and anytime he does not have a prepared speech, he messes up and has to come back and correct or say what i meant to say.
obama people know he is weak on the issues.
so they had to make this a personality contest rather than about the issues.
and the dems will lose in nov.
clinton supporters boycott talking to
obama supporters.
the dnc has made it clear that they do not want the mod. dems in the dem party
so i will leave the dem party. and will not talk any obama supporters again.
leave the obama supporters and the dnc alone.
people who believe in the middle way=mod dems. will leave the dem. party.

Pauline
So your a Rep.?? Afraid John will lose in Nov???
Dems will UNITE with or Without Hillary Help.
This Party is for All.
DEMS UNITE FOR BARRACK OBAMA SO WE CAN WIN BACK THE WHITE HOUSE AND FIX THIS COUNTRY !!!
hILLARY STOP BEING A SORE LOSER AND STAND UP FOR THE DEM. AND SUPPORT AND STUMP FOR BARRACK.
IT IS NOT ABOUT WINNING ( FOR YOU )
ITS ABOUT THIS COUNTRY AND PARTY. START SHOWING YOUR LOYALTY!!
SHOW AMERICANS AND OTHER COUNTRIES THAT WOMEN ARE NOT WHINERS AND DIRTY FIGHTERS.
THAT WE (WOMEN ) ARE AND WILL ALWAYS PLAY FAIR!!
UNITE THIS COUNTRY!!
BARRACK’S TEAM AND PLEASE DO NOT PUT HER ON YOUR TICKET SHE WILL COST US THE ELECTION IN NOV.
SORE LOSERS NEED TO HIDE UNDER THE NEAREST ROCK UNTIL THE DUST SETTLES …

^^…clean the House and Senate.”
Wasn’t THAT ‘posed to happen in ’06???? Instead, they cleaned themselves down to 14%.

CORRECTION
^^You are a REPUB, you just proved it.^^
Call a cop.
^^Now go away.^^
No.
^^Campaign for Grandpa. Shout at some clouds, old man.^^
Willya lookit that hate and age-ism! Tsk, tsk.

==Limbaugh’s operation chaos is in full force.==
Martha Stewart would say, “It’s a good thing!”

–Obama book “Dreams of my father” …. OMG ……… BARACK OBAMA HID HIS FATHER’S SOCIALIST AND ANTI-WESTERN CONVICTIONS FROM HIS READERS. Google it as read in capital above, and you will find out this fits in with the statement Obama made about people in small town clinging to religion. That was nothing more than a restatement of Karl Marx’s view that religion is the “opiate of the masses.” The mask is coming off Obama and it’s about time! –
Great point!

ENOUGH already. Harold Ickes was like a brat that didn’t get what his boss sent him to get. Hartina Flouroy was the same and it seems to me that the committee’s rules were clear that the votes WOULD NOT count.
Take it one step further the committee set the rules and for them to tell the committee it was wrong, was like looking in the mirror and saying they were wrong. All candidates agreed that was the eventual outcome.
It was clear to see by their questions and concerns they were only interested is seeing Hillary get what she wanted. This is not a good idea for her to authorize her representatives to suggest that it will go to the next level of denial and to keep her failing campaign going. I think the super delegates should step up and give one or the other the needed votes to end this now. This obsession with her being the most electable is a total figment of her imagination.
It’ time to unite the DNC, so get over it and let’s move on. Her & her family are almost living in PR to get the desired results, but the math will not provide the results they are seeking. Vote OBAMA 2008 for CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN.

^^Senator Obama is more than qualified to be president.
What executive experience does he have? None.
What has he done in the Senate? Nothing.
What did he do for the past twenty years? He sat in THAT church, listening and considering THOSE hate-America sermons.

==Yes, Grandpa “Pappy” McCain is old and YES, I do not like him.==
Hate and age-ism in a Libzi who, no doubt, preaches that the rest of us should not hate and discriminate. Heh.

Hillary is very good in corruption, doing anything for personal gain, scandals and many many lobbyists

Harold Ickes and Hillary are Hypocrites plain and simple. They supported and in Ickes case, set up the system, then cried and whined when it worked against them.
Any Hillary supporter who thinks this was about disenfranchised voters is out of their minds.
Hillary is the new Nader

the couple of Hillary whack jobs that think all these women will defect to Mccain because they hate Obama sooo much
you need to look at Bill Clinton’s “defection numbers” in 92…they were similar during the primary…guess what he didn’t even have an opponent that was this far away and promising as destructive of policies as mccain is… and yeah the defection numbers didn’t come to pass.
Maybe if all voters were 12 or had the brains of 12 year olds people would vote out of spite… but most voters are adults.
Barack has played much better than Hill and has one. More Americans like Barack than Hill…
She has a low ceiling which has dropped now below 50% …which means …if anyone has less a chance of winning it would be Hill.
Go look at the numbers… people aren’t stupid like most of the comments from the whack jobs on here saying “IMcCain will win! Obama can’t get elected! We” revolt!”
It gets said every election go look it up…and it never comes to pass…and in this year…with the realnumbers…there is very little chance that Barack Obama won’t be the next President of the US.
But keep up the blather and fiction if it makes your adolescent tantrum feel better…because if there is an adult in there…especially one who cares about the war, the economy, our children, healthcare, women’s rights, who sits on the supreme court…etc…
then that adult will finally reign in the child.

I believe people are now dealing with incorrect numbers regarding just what it will take for anyone to “win” the Democratic Party Nomination. Before the DNC decision last night, the “Magic” number was 2,026 PLEDGED DELEGATES, excluding “Super Delegates”, who are supposed to keep their mouths shut and their minds open, until the convention, which is the ONLY PLACE their votes are counted. It is quite wrong and undemocratic for the DNC to encourage them to “endorse” a candidate now, and in addition, an “endorsement” does not NECESSARILY equal a VOTE. Beyond that, the “Super Delegates” are supposed to act in the best interests of the PARTY by choosing the STRONGEST candidate, who can BEST enable the PARTY to win the White House in November. In no way should they be playing favorites with the candidates, as they do not represent them, and doing so is being false to the PARTY and derelict in their duty.
That said, what the DNC did yesterday was as follows:
1. ) They agreed to seat the entire Florida delegation of 185 PLEDGED DELEGATES and 25 UNPLEDGED DELEGATES. However, they reduced the “voting power” of each delegate to 50%, thereby “technically” making the delegate strength to be 92.5 PLEDGED DELEGATES and 12.5 UNPLEDGED DELEGATES.
2.) They agreed to seat the entire Michigan delegation of 128 PLEDGED DELEGATES and 28 UNPLEDGED DELEGATES. However, they reduced the “voting power” of each delegate to 50%, thereby “technically” making the delegate strength to be 64 PLEDGED DELEGATES and 14 UNPLEDGED DELEGATES.
3.) By their decision, then, the DNC has now validated the Popular Vote, which according to RealClearPolitics, stands at Clinton 17,428,986 and Obama 17,266,433 (which included the “UNCOMMITED” votes, to which he is not entitled, as there were other candidates included in this category), with Clinton now leading by 162,533 votes, or 0.4%.
4.) By their decision the DNC has now changed the “Magic” number for PLEDGED DELEGATES needed to win the Nomination from 2,026 to 2,183, which means that even if Obama should win ALL the remaing 110 delegates, which most likely include both PLEDGED and UNPLEDGED, he will still be at least 47 (not counting how many he is down by at the moment) delegates short of the new “Magic” number.
5.) Therefore, it is my conclusion that NEITHER candidate will have enough PLEDGED delegates to win the Nomination on June 4, and so I truly believe this Primary will go to Denver in August, where it will be fought out on the floor.
6.) As Yogi Berra once said, “It ain’t over, ’til it’s over.” And this is not over by a long shot.

HILLARY DIANE RODHAM CLINTON
FIRED BY THE 1974 WATERGATE INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL FOR:
1) LYING
2) GROSS INCOMPETENCE
3) ATTEMPTING TO SUBVERT THE US CONSTITUTION.
SHE’S STILL THE SAME.

Mr. Incredible
Obama has more experience with foreign affairs and national government than Bill Clinton did…
not to mention have you ever seen a more effective campaign run…he took down the freakin’ Clintons in their base…the democratic party.
so who is the fighter? maybe it should be …who is the more effective fighter.

Mr. Incredible
Obama has more experience with foreign affairs and national government than Bill Clinton did…………..bhoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Why can’t this woman just admit defeat, and move on?

I watched the DNC Rules Committee meeting yesterday. I found those members had debated extensively and could tell they were taking this decision. So many factors had to be considered. So many unknowns. Events held really were not legal. Multiple court given to this fact. I did see Barack Obama Campaign did actually ask to support Michigan recommendation even though he had votes to 50-50 split. I see he also supported Florida to be counted as done. These events were not legal events, and many unknown factors existed and were not true representation of all voters. Clinton supporters(more than Obama) that were committee members voted for decision. Votes in favor of were by large majority. All seems to be a compromise. I truly felt was a democratic process. I hope everyone can now move ahead.

This is barack Obama experience foreign policy. He borrow money from Auchi.
Nadhmi Auchi is an Iraqi-born billionaire, protected secret money for Saddam Hussein, and -Auchi also financially backed Saddam Hussein’s plan for a pipeline from Iraq to Saudi Arabia, and Auchi good friend of Tony Rezko, and Auchi loaned money to Rezko (Syrian Born). Google it as Obama’s name in Rezko trial
When Sadam Hussein was captured, Nadhmi Auchi was charged along with Saddam Hussein for conspiring to assassinate Prime minister (president) Abdul Karim Qasim and stood trial in 1959. (Auchi gave fellow Baath Party members machine guns from his home for Saddam Hussein.)
You Obama supporters, Obama’s house was bought from blood money. Obama couldn’t buy his house without Rezko’s help. Rezko had to borrow the money from Nadhmi Auchi who got rich from the Oil for Food UN debauchery. google it as Obama bagman is sent to jail after failing to declare $3.5m payment by British tycoon . THIS GUY IS PURE SCUM

Gee hits the nail on the head!!!

After Tuesdays primary Obama will need less then 10% of the remaining SDs to capture the nomination.
Clinton will need 90%+ of the remaining SDs to capture the nomination.
Not going to happen. Wednesday morning we’ll be crowning Obama as the Democratic nominee.
After tempers cool, the Democratic party will unite and defeat John McCain in Nov.

WHY DOES NO ONE ASK HILLARY DIANE ABOUT DOUGLAS COE, HER PRO-NAZI, SPIRITUAL ADVISOR AND PASTOR OF THE LAST 15 YEARS, WHOM SHE ADORES IN HER BOOK?
WHY DOES NO ONE ASK HILLARY DIANE ABOUT WILLIAM PROCANIK HER PASTOR WHO WAS JAILED ON MARCH 28, 2008, FOR MOLESTINMG A SEVEN YEAR OLD GIRL?
BECAUSE OBAMA HAS STUCK TO THE FACTS OF THE CAMPAIGN AND BEEN A GENTLEMAN, ALL THE REST, IS BULL.

Barack Huesien Obama’s experience foreign policy is, he bought his house from blood money from Iraqi-born billionaire, protected secret money for Saddam Hussein. Obama couldn’t buy his house without Rezko’s help. Rezko had to borrow the money from Nadhmi Auchi who got rich from the Oil for Food UN debauchery. THIS GUY IS PURE SCUM

“that he wouldn’t be where he is if he weren’t African-American, that his campaign played the race card against former President Bill Clinton.” Does anyone see the irony in this statement? Who is playing the race card when they say things like this?

FACT IS , IT’S NOT HILLARY’S “HOUSE” IT’S THE NATION’S HOUSE AND NO PERSON SHOULD BE ABOVE THE LAW NOR ABOVE THE RULES OF THE PARTY.
REMEMBER, BILL WAS IMPEACHED AND RIGHTFULLY SO. HE WAS ALSO DISBARRED.
HILLARY WAS AN ENABLER WHO KNEW ABOUT BILL’S FORCING HIMSELF ON JENNIFER FLOWERS AND ALL THE REST.
SHE’S JUST A PURE POLITICAL MACHINE, HEARTLESS AND COLD, WITH ONLY A LOVE FOR THE WHITE HOUSE AND HER OWN FUTURE.
THE VAST MAJORITY IN ARKANSAS DESPISE THEM NOW, THAT’S WHY THEY RAN OFF TO NY TO START THE CLINTON DYNASTY ANEW.

Mr. Incredible
she won a beauty contest… that’s why they call it a beauty contest…when people vote for the woman who they knew as the first lady for 15 years.
That is why they did not take her beauty contest away but they did not count it as a primary…especially one where Obama wasn’t there because he, the voters and his supporters in the state were told it would not count.

Hillary’s House being used to refer to the dem party sums it up huh…
It’s not about the war or the children or the poor or healthcare or women’s rights or the economy…
it’s about “Hillary’s House”
it’s not…it’s about America.

The behavior of Clinton supporters at the RBC meeting was very disturbing.
It demonstrates lack of intelligence and a showcase of immaturity.
A women shoved an Obama supporter for no apparent reasoning.
They were yelling, shouting, and cursing.
Even when a Hillary SD spoke they were acking in such a manner.
Disgusting

–she won a beauty contest…–
Irrelevant. She won. That’s what’s important.
–… that’s why they call it a beauty contest…when people vote for the woman who they knew as the first lady for 15 years. That is why they did not take her beauty contest away but they did not count it as a primary…especially one where Obama wasn’t there because he, the voters and his supporters in the state were told it would not count. –
Then, why did they go and take the time and effort to vote???? Are they THAT stupid in Michigan and STILL that stupid in Florida????

The Clinton name is OVER will never be the same and she done this to herself.She is wasting our money being in PR we are picking up the tab for her stupid actions drinking beer riding in a open truck,In her glory as all are yelling to her she is eating this up—- honest she is a disgrace to this country.I hope New York gives her the boot as well.

Paula Abdrool
keep trying
it was not “real for the voters” half of whom almost everyone acknowledges besides Hillary and her team…stayed home.
They said it would not count before he took his name off…duh.
and I agree this is now… and Barack gave hillary an advantage in a state where there wasn’t a real primary…because if there had been he could have won. Look at the numbers…
your argument is nothing more than stupid…

Thinking-you’re so not. I see that you post quite alot without really much content. Vanessa, you too. Alot of repeat posts. Obama was damaged again this week by Pfleger. More surprises around the corner? Women who are Hillary Clinton supporters will vote for McCain in the fall where all the votes will have to be counted…as will husbands…children…He’s lost much more than the women vote. Have a good day.

waffle
a beauty contest is not a primary…that is why it is called a beauty contest…
Primaries are supposed to be decided on candidates platforms not on the famous…
as we see in almost every state they campaigned…once people got to meet the candidates and hear them speak about the issues a huge sway toward obama in almost every single state.
that is why a beauty contest is not a primary.
If it were Bill Clinton would have never won.

It is deeply disturbing and sad that the scorched earth campaign of the Clintons is now bearing fruit in the raw hate of her supporters–witness Harriet Christian and others. Their line of “reasoning” and talking points are straight out of the Clinton campaign—the fruit of seeds sown during recent months when their backs were against the wall. This is precisely what average Democrats have been so concerned about, and what could well lead to a complete breakdown of the party if the divisiveness continues. I simply can’t understand how Clinton and her supporters can protest the resolution of what was clearly an illegitimate primary process in Michigan and Florida, and RECOGNIZED AS SUCH by both candidates, their campaigns, and the DNC. Where is the fundamental sense of fairness?

I’m Canadian… and I’m scared to death to think that you people will be selecting the next leader of the free world – not on the basis of policies or leadership – but because of sour grapes over your candidate not winning the party’s nomination.
Anyone who switches party affiliation just out of spite is both childish and self-centred. Maybe you do deserve Bush, Limbaugh and the rest of the Republicans.
I just don’t understand why you have to visit them upon the rest of the world.

OK, maybe it will be easier to understand this way:
Delegate counts from the NY Times Sunday June 1, 2008.
New “Magic” number = 2,183
Obama PLEDGED = 1,539
Obama PROJECTED = 117
Obama Florida = 67
Obama Michigan = 59
Total Obama = 1,728 PLEDGED DELEGATES
Diff. Obama = -455 PLEDGED DELEGATES
Clinton PLEDGED = 1,446
Clinton PROJECTED = 56
Clinton Florida = 105
Clinton Michigan = 69
Total Clinton = 1,676 PLEDGED DELEGATES
Diff. Clinton = -507 PLEDGED DELEGATES
Difference between Obama and Clinton is 52 PLEDGED DELEGATES, before the voting in Puerto Rico, Montana and South Dakota, which have a TOTAL of 86 PLEDGED DELEGATES available.
So, EVEN IF Obama wins ALL 86, he will still be 369 PLEDGED DELEGATES short. And that’s the truth.
Remember, “Super Delegates” DO NOT matter UNTIL THE CONVENTION.
p.s. – I hope the formatting holds, otherwise you’ll just have to make allowances for the mess.

Thank you, Fais’, for taking the lead on that one! I couldn’ta said it better myself.

I hope that the few hundred of HC supporters showing up in DC will be the seed for an independent movement for HC.

Somebody should declare a national ‘Day Free of Clinton Controversy’. — It would give us all a chance to get rid of this perennial headache that everyone has now. — Good Grief, already!

Hillary reminds me of a woman I worked with. We had mandatory retirement at age 65, but when her day arrived she refused to leave. The supervisor had to call security to pry her out of her chair and remove her from the building. Lol.
As for the turncoats who would vote McCain rather than Obama, we’d be kidding ourselves to think the country has gotten past racism.

Time magazine quote:
“Betty Jean King, 60, a retired teacher from Shippensburg, ranted to television cameras: “If it’s not Hillary, I’m voting for McCain. 17 million people voted for Hillary and I’m telling you many of them are going to defect.”
Ok, so fine… get mad, stay mad and become Republicans. But you better get ready to wear “party dresses” and serve sweet tea to the men out on the veranda.

I cannot WAIT to watch Obama implode tomorrow. My popcorn is ready. You all better go stock up for tomorrow. BO supporters may want to stock up on Valium because you’re going to need it! LOL! I cannot wait! TOMORROW (Monday) is going to be a GREAT DAY! woohoo!

Sounds to me like a bunch of republicans got tickets and/or were brought in by bus to demonstrate!!! Sure doesn’t sound like Democrats!!!
Obama 2008 — Yes, WE CAN!!!

Vote for Hillary, she’s the best. Obama and his political operatives are nothing more than shrewd politicians. Hillary was entitled to all the Michigan votes. Obama strategically took his name off the ballot in Michigan because the polls showed that Hillary would cream him in Michigan. The DNC never said that a candidate should take their name off the ballot, only that they should not campaign there.

Which Democratic candidate is more electable?
Consider this:
This is how the Electoral College stands as of June 1, 2008, (Puerto Rico is not a factor in the Electoral Vote), showing strengths of Clinton vs. Obama, based on their results. For those who have not understood, this is not a head-to-head matchup, but rather a side-by-side comparison.
This assumes a winner-take-all primary/caucus vote takes all Electoral votes for each state
With Florida and Michigan, which Clinton won per the DNC decision:
Clinton 308
Obama 224
Assuming the following victories, based on current polls, with Clinton winning NOTHING ELSE, and Obama winning South Dakota, and Montana, the totals would then be:
Clinton 308
Obama 230 (includes Montana, and South Dakota)
Please note that it takes 270 Electoral College votes to win the General Election.
Whether or not the vote turns out as indicated, I firmly believe the above analysis more than amply demonstrates which of the Democratic candidates is in a better position to be the stronger candidate in the General Election.
P.S. – One last thought about this Electoral College Vote analysis; in it I gave Senator Obama full credit for the state caucuses he won. However, it should be noted that there are not any caucuses to be won in the Big Leagues during the General Election. There are only PRIMARIES, WINNER-TAKE-ALL.
And I am sure the “Super Delegates” are aware of that.

Um…there’s no electoral college for Obama vs. Clinton.
I love seeing Erickson’s stage of grief in operation, especially the current one: ‘Denial’.
Clinton has lost. She ran a horrendous campaign filled with miscalculation, hubris and ignorance.
–It’s great to poo-poo caucuses, but her campaign DIDN’T KNOW THE RULES IN MULTIPLE STATES! Do you really want a president who misses details like that? Who overspends in silly places?
Complain about Obama/McCain all you want, but both are actually in the black for their presidential campaigns.
Hopefully Clinton will shut the crap up come Tuesday and we can get going with the real stuff rather than the typical ‘drama’ that goes everywhere she does.

Things are NOT as they are made to appear.
For all the talk about “Super Delegates”, there is nothing “Super” about them. Just as everyone of us, they have one vote each. Their endorsement is just that, an endorsement. It is not a vote. They are not supposed to come into play unless there is a deadlocked convention, and in that case, they are expected to exercise their BEST JUDGMENT to cast their votes for that candidate they, in view of their extensive experience and political wisdom, think would be able to WIN the General Election. They are not supposed to be endorsing this or that candidate, BEFORE THEY VOTE AT THE CONVENTION. To do otherwise is to be false to the trust and responsibility that has been placed in and on them.
It would be better at this point if all the bickering supporters of each candidate looked at the number of ACTUAL PLEDGED DELEGATES allocated to their candidate on the basis of primaries and caucuses won. Those figures, as of June 1, 2008 (NY Times web site), for those who truly follow politics are:
Obama 1,539
Clinton 1,446
Diff. +93 (Obama)
Of the “surveyed” “Super Delegates”, of which there are approx. 795, there are at least 198.5 who have not “endorsed” any candidate, which is as it was intended to be. Again, an “endorsement” does not necessarily translate into a convention vote, since in theory “Super Delegates” are supposed to represent the wisdom of the party and are expected to be above the fray. Those who have endorsed, really should be stripped of their position and replaced by those who will act as intended. However, that is the responsibility of the DNC, which so far, has proven inadequate to discipline its own members.
The bottom line, “Super Delegate” endorsements should not be counted by candidates claiming that such an “endorsement” makes this person into a PLEDGED DELEGATE, for that is NOT THE CASE, and to think otherwise is to delude oneself and one’s followers. It is also wrong for the media to even report what “Super Delegates” are doing now, as they do not even come into play unless and until there is a DEADLOCKED CONVENTION.
However, there is nothing to prevent partisans from ‘counting chickens before they hatch”, nor is there anything to prevent the media from playing games with gullible people to increase interest in these silly stories.
As Yogi Berra once said, “It ain’t over, ’til it’s over”. And this fight is a long way from over.

I am a Michigan voter for Senator Clinton, and I feel as if my primary vote was stolen. I want this issue taken to the Credentials Committee.

==WE KNEW it would not count, it was on the TV, in the newspapers, on the raido that it WOULD NOT count.
WE KNEW that. This was a FACT. WE knew it ahead of time.
Can I be more CLEAR????==
Actually, you need to make one more thing clear:
Tell us why you voted, knowing that your vote didn’t count. Was it just a show? Were you practicing voting??

Yavo Lem is right about the
“electoral college”
Hillary has the highest possibility
to reach the magic number of 270.
Obama has almost zero possibility
to reach the magic number of 270.
Do the math state by state for G.E.

What have we wrought? A McCain presidency.
When we start pointing fingers at what caused that, let’s not forget the hubris of a 1+ year junior senator who thought that because he could give a good speech he was qualified to be president.

==Paula,
Sorry for the double post. My computer froze up.==
It happen to da besta us.
==WE voted because that’s what we do. We care, we vote.==
Ok.
Do you care that the vote doesn’t count, that not counting the votes and giving delegates to somebody who didn’t earn them sounds like Chicago-Daley politics?
==Many, many of us voted “uncomitted” as a way of saying “Not Clinton”.==
However, she still won. She deserves the delegates, all 39 in Michigan, not 19. Hussein should get none cuz he was not on the ballot, and “uncommitted” doesn’t get delegates.

==Vickie wrote:
I am finished with this party FOREVER.
*******
DEMS EAT THEIR OWN wrote:
See ya! 2 Million new voters have been registered. 85% of those are Democratic or have Democratic leanings.==
Well, with so many Dems switchin’, they will cancel that out.

Low information and uninformed “so called”supporters for Hillary Clinton always post crap.Half do not really understand what happened yesterday they are like people who are still buying a brand name as she said zerox copy not knowing people now cut and paste photocopy.They need to know the world has changed. This is what the Clintons get for being devisive. I was all for Bill but Hillary as the Priest said thinks she is entitled.

Socialists is too good a term for these people.
Obama – Wright – Rezko – Ayers – Auchi – Michelle – Pfleger and that mob at that church are Muslim Marxists, to be kind to them.
The liberal media and leftist party leaders just created 17 million independents who were former Democrat Party members.
It happens over and over. McGovern did it in ’72, Carter did it in ’80, now Obama doing it in ’08.
Watch the polls slide on Obama all the way until November. You leftists will be screaming racism all the way.
Just like that mob in Obama’s church.
Call me anything you want, but don’t call me a Democrat. I’m taking my name off here in Florida.
Hillary ’08

Socialists is too good a term for these people.
Obama – Wright – Farrakan – Rezko – Ayers – Auchi – Michelle – Pfleger and that mob at that church are Muslim Marxists, to be kind to them.
The liberal media and leftist party leaders just created 17 million independents who were former Democrat Party members.
It happens over and over. McGovern did it in ’72, Carter did it in ’80, now Obama doing it in ’08.
Watch the polls slide on Obama all the way until November. You leftists will be screaming racism all the way.
Just like that mob in Obama’s church.
Call me anything you want, but don’t call me a Democrat. I’m taking my name off here in Florida.
Hillary ’08

For all the talk about “Super Delegates”, there is nothing “Super” about them. Just as everyone of us, they have one vote each. Their endorsement is just that.. an endorsement. ….It is not a vote… They are not supposed to come into play unless there is a deadlocked convention,…. and in that case, they are expected to exercise their BEST JUDGMENT to cast their votes for that candidate they, in view of their extensive experience and political wisdom, think would be able to WIN the General Election….. They are not supposed to be endorsing this or that candidate,… BEFORE THEY VOTE AT THE CONVENTION. ….PERIOD.
Posted by: Yavo lem

^^The DNC makes the rules, not the state. the state broke the rules and suffered the consquences. Period. They are lucky just to get half.^^
Sooooo, we can assume, then, that the Democrat Party is the Party of taking a person’s vote for candidate A, ignoring what the voter wants and assigning it to candidate B who, in this case, was not on the ballot. Interesting take on the American way.

“Putting your emotions aside… Can you imagine this as a precedent? Stealing votes from someone who won them and giving the stolen votes to someone who is not even on the ballot? Surely not in my world. Maybe in your kookoo land.”
—-
I’m with RETRO-VISION.
That is not only unconstitutional, but undemocratic since both are the same!
The DNC is broken!
DEAL with it! FIX it!
Or lose the election!

I’ve got a few questions for some of you. What if the shoe were on the other foot…and Hillary had taken her name off the Michigan ballot along with John Edwards and Richardson when it was determined that the results of the Michigan Primary would not count (don’t forget, Clinton herself stated this as fact at the time) but Obama had left his name on the ballot.
Would you have still participated in the Primary? Would you have voted for ‘Uncommitted’? Would you have sent in an absentee ballot supporting Hillary as a write-in candidate? Would you have stayed home?
And what would you have done if you later found out that Obama wanted to count the results of the votes in that Primary?
This isn’t a facetious question. Seriously, what would you have done? Or how do you think this should have been handled?
And if your only answer is to say “that didn’t happen, so who cares” or “that never would have happened because Hillary is smarter than that” — then you’re really not trying to look at this objectively at all.
(And…Hillary’s decision to remain on the ballot was not ‘smarter’ — maybe ‘more cunning’ or ‘more calculating’ but not smarter.)

The reason everyone is UPSET FROM the Clinton camp is the KNOW OBAMA WILL WIN IN NOVEMEBER- McCain knows it to. I am from Florida and I didn’t vote because they said it would not count-The only fair thing would to be not seat Florida and Michigan-they new the rules so too bad for them. So my vote would not have counted as it should be for both states. HILLARY IS HISTORY BECAUSE SHE IS A FRAUD AND ALL HER SUPPORTS ARE BIGGER FRAUDS. GO OBAMA 08

Country before party
Posted by: eyes wide open
————–
I’ll be standing right there with you. Obamabots don’t get it. The country is more important the party.

eyes wide open:
Actually, I’m really interested in what you would have done and how you would have thought that situation should be handled?
Give it a shot…

I am watching Fox and I am actually agreeing with Sean Hannity. He wants to know why the media hasn’t looked into all of Obama’s associates. Gee I wonder why?

maxmd | Jun 1, 2008 9:15:43 PM;
Hindsight is great but, hopefully,
I wouldn’t have set such a dumb rule in motion to begin with!
And why weren’t ALL of the states which disobeyed the DNC punished?
How come only these two?
I think the DNC has embarrassed itself and in so doing, embarrassed all of its members!

I am a McCain guy, but I think that Hillary should play this out right through the convention. I believe there is more Obama baggage coming in the weeks ahead – and Hillary probably thinks that also. No, I am not a Operation Chaos operative. That’s what I would do if I were in her position. Also, Obama has not won any of the large blue states except his home state of IL – that is very telling

At least McCain loves his country! I know Hillary loves this country too. But I don’t know about Obama. He was part a crazy church…”we deserved 911 …God Damn America!”

IF YOU WANT CHANGE – VOTE OBAMA!
HE CHANGES HIS STORY EVERY DAY!
P.S. Fortunately, America has already changed it’s mind about this fraud just as soon as he was publicly exposed (Note: for reference, see his disastrous since Rev. Wright went all wrong for him), even if Keith Dobermann is still too busy foaming at the mouth with man-love not to notice that he’s sitting on this political time bomb, which, by the way, is set to go off in early November, and furthermore, whose ticking gets louder with every passing day, which should be no surprise when it comes to O-BOMB-A, who, sadly, is Howard Dean’s very own homemade suicide bomber. And just in case you didn’t notice the way his O-BOMB-A work, this guy blows up something every time he tries to speak without a tele-prompter to protect him.

joeforsure |:
You can if you want, but many of us were thinking more along the lines of Raila Odinga, Nachmi Auchi,Rashid Khalidi, William Ayers, Bernadaine Dohrn, his contacts in Hamas who adore him, oh, and any of his pastors!
… and maybe … Michele!

I’ve about had my fill of the Democratic Party. (I actually donated money 4 years ago to that scumbag Kerry). The Democratic Party does not get one more red cent. Ever. If thousands like me take the same step then they’ll soon feel the pinch.I hope Hillary runs as an independent; I’m sure she could raise decent money. I know I would contribute and I’m sure there are tens of thousands like me.She doesn’t need it nearly as much as Obama, anyway. He survives on outspending opponents 3/1, 4/1, etc., and even so, she’s been kicking his rear end since Feb.
Think of how fitting it would be if he were to end up in 3rd place in the Electoral College vote count. That would be a fitting “see, I told you!”

if hillary’s supporters mean to sit this election out or decide they are going to vote for obama they should not then go hat in hand begging for anything from his administration next year because he will win without her. the difference between him and hillary is that he is big enough to forgive and will help her and her supporters anyway. i cannot imagine her doing the same thing. obama ’08 & ’09-’12

i voted democrat all my life this will be the first time i will vote republican. anyone but obama

If the DNC thinks the “party” will come together and vote for Obama, Howard Dean’s got another thing coming… There ain’t no affirmative action inside the voting booth. America IS ready for black president, but not Barack Obama. It ain’t about race, it’s about patriotism and I might be a Democrat, but I’m not obligated to vote for him. Sorry.

Obama gamed the caucuses, and racked up a lead before people got to see him for what he really is. The Dems are again putting forward the weakest possible candidate, while the Repubs have fielded their best. Though Hillary would blow McCain out in the GE electoral college, based on current projections, it’s over before it starts. Welcome President McCain.

to:rogersb65 | Jun 2, 2008 12:23:19 AM
WOW! That is a scarey prediction!
You’re basing your vote on the hype generated by two semi-autobiographical novels written by B O… and legislation mostly gifted to him by Illinois King Maker Emil Jones because
that and his mesmerizing voice were all we knew about him when you voted for him.
And despite everything you’ve learned about B O since, you cling to him like
poor people clinging to their last nickle.
Please! You have enough on your wee mind! Do not worry about the future political life or reputation of Hillary Clinton!
We will deal with her kindly and already know what a great president she will make.
We belong to NO ONE and should Hillary’s supporters choose for any reason to cross the political line to the other side of the street, that is our right!
At the moment, the DNC is flawed!
It needs to be fixed.
If it cannot be fixed to accomodate Our wishes….. we will definitely walk the walk.
Country before party!

The DNC is doing it best,, that is a load of crap, its doing it best for barack obama and for Hilary she should do what she has to during this election,, I Hope she goes independent, so much talk is she does anything she will hurt her self for any office later,, that is crap what is true,, the DNC and corporate media already did that by the way they treated her,, there are so many Hilary voter are not going to vote,, but I want my vote to count, So like so many Barack Obama supporter claim they do ,, If obama does not win the primary obama supporter will vote for McCain, well what goes around comes around, I do not support the DNC , I only support Hilary clinton, I will not wast my vote,, by not voting,, I will Vote for McCain, not because I want him to win, Because I do not want Barack Obama to win more,, I can put up with McCain for 4 years, His hands are tired with congress anyway,, not much he can get done with out congress,, when this election is over a new campaign will start,, that is to replace the DNC and all the senators congress men & woman who treated Hilary with so dis-respect
When there Term is up,, so many Democrats will be replace with Democrats that will be for the poeple,,What goes around comes Around,

I think HRC could win as an independent candidate by drawing Dem, Indy, and dis-enchanted Rep. bread and butter oriented, women.
That faction plus we millions of HRC supporting Dem and Indy males could prove to be a winner.
I think with Wesley Clark as a running mate she also draws many Rep. males.
I think she would draw votes from McCain in large numbers, while absolutely demolishing Obama.
Even if McCain still won, Obama goes down in flames and she builds a solid base for 2012.
The DNC would lie in ruins.
I fervently advocate such an effort and will gladly donate the maximum allowed to help facilitate such.
*cross-posted

I agree with Vanessa.
What is not stressed here is that not only did Obama take his name off the Michigan primary, but so did ALL THE OTHER DEMOCRATS running – remember this was the beginning of the race – ALL EXCEPT Hillary. She was questioned about this, and given some flack about it and her response was, “Well, you know, We all know Michigan and Florida aren’t going to count anyway”..
Now her fans feel outraged. Well I feel outraged.
In the future, we will know that the sanction should be 1/2 votes and everyone leave your name on, campaign, etc. That is what the Republicans did. Makes sense.
Unfortunately, because the political leaders in MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA (Including Republican Governor Crist) were responsible for moving their primary up – contravening the DNC rules, and they KNEW IT AT THE TIME, Hillary’s supporters are going to vote for McCain?
NOW THAT IS CRAZY.
Just to be clear, McCain has said he is planning on being in for a full 8 years, not 4 as some people hope. Go ahead and vote McCain if you liked the last 8 years so much.

Tired of the party mentality that makes you vote for the candidate they want, not who you want?
You can break away and free yourself to think for yourself by REGISTERING INDEPENDENT!
By doing so the pollsters and the two parties will be put into a quandry trying to fiqure out who is ahead and who is behind. If only 25% of you REGISTER INDEPENDENT you can bring about the change this country desparately needs. YOU can still vote for the person you want, without having to carry the baggage of the party.
Take a giant step forward, THINK FOR YOURSELF, THINK INDEPENDENT!

UNDISPUTED FACTS:
1. Hillary won in 17 large, mostly BLUE states (and 297 electoral college votes) Democrats have any realistic chance of winning – Arizona (10), Arkansas (6), California (55), Nevada (5), New York (31), New Jersey (15), Texas (34), Tennessee (11), Ohio (20), Florida (27), Michigan (17), Pennsylvania (21), Kentucky (8), New Mexico (5), Massachusetts (12), West Virginia (5), Indiana (11), Rhode Island (4), and Puerto Rico (Commonwealth).
2. She already proves she can take 297 electoral votes. To become president you need only 270.
3. These mostly BLUE states have the majority of the Electoral College votes – which determines the presidency.
4. Unfortunately, Obama won in mostly RED states where mostly GOP out number democrats 3:1 – so it’s Gore, Kerry, and McGovern all over again.
5. Obama won in the Republican majority RED states of Alaska (3), Oregon (11), Washington (7), Idaho (4), Utah (5), Colorado (3), Wyoming (9), Oklahoma (7), Kansas (6), Nebraska (5), North Dakota (3), Minnesota (10), Wisconsin (10), Illinois (21), Alabama (9), Mississippi (6), Louisiana (9), Georgia (8), North Carolina (15), Virginia (13), Hawaii (4), DC (3), Connecticut (7), Maine (4), Vermont (4), Delaware (3), and Maryland (10).
6. Even if Obama won all these RED states all he has are 199 electoral votes. Well short 270 needed.
Therefore, as we much as we once respected Obama, until he didn’t offer Hillary the VP spot to unify the party, he is not going to beat McCain.

The democrats screwed up the primaries this time. Yes. Anyone who equates this with Zimbabwe clearly doesn’t have any concept of what is going on in the world. To compare FL and MI to roving gangs of people murdering opposition with machetes need a reality check. Don’t forget CLINTON WAS ALL FOR DISENFRANCHISING MI AND FL UNTIL THE RACE GOT UNCOMFORTABLY CLOSE.

How is this even close to right? Florida is a winner take all state in the primaries, and now the DNC has cut our vote in half. . . and given some to the loser, obama? I have never voted Repub before, but I am so disgusted with the DNC shoving this man of bitter faith down my throat and pretending it is the will of the people I will vote McCain is Clinton is not the nominee. Hillary, hear our cry, RUN INDEPENDENT!

It’s not that we’ve been told these things by the Clintons, Jake.
We’re not dumb women that need to be told things. Give us a little more credit and give the Clintons and their surrogates a break.
We were able to figure out all on our own that Obama is a BS artist, that he’s got more sizzle than steak, that he’s got more ambition than experience and that the press has all but given him a free ride.
We’re the smart ones here and nothing will change that. It’s going to be really sad when everyone else wakes up and realizes how foolish they’ve been.

You Clinton supporters are fools. She has you fooled again. Remember she agreed to the terms of Mich and FLA not being seated in the beginning because she thought she was going to beat Obama hands down. Now that she is losing she thinks every vote should count. That’s garbage. Rules are rules. She claims to be sympathetic to Mich and FLA, only because it will help her. She doesn’t care about anyone but power. We have had enough of Bush and enough of Clinton. Thanks to both of them we are in the position we are in today.

To OneFloridaVoter – Florida is NOT winner takes all for the DNC. That is the case for the GOP. Are you really a Dem ? If you were, you’d know this !

OneFloridaVoter — If you don’t even know the facts about your own state, then you shouldn’t be complaining about the outcome. Your state is NOT a winner-take-all state. None of the states in the Democratic primaries were winner-take-all. In fact, you couldn’t have an election where some states would be proportional and some would be winner-take-all. If you don’t even understand how your state works, why in the world should anybody listen to your complaints? Do you have a better solution than the one which the RBC came up with? If you do, then offer it up. If you don’t, then your side needs to quit their non-stop bellyaching. FL and MI lawmakers put you into the position you’re in, not the DNC. Despite whatever Ickes, McAuliffe, and HRC herself say, it is the lawmaker that caused the problem in the first place, not the DNC.

If the Big H is so sure of herself…
Why didn’t she run for POTUS as an independent in the first place?
Once again, Hillary is changing the rules to suit herself. She is cut from the same cloth as her LYING, IMPEACHED from POTUS husban, Bill (“I did not have sexual relations with that woman”) Clinton.
Anyone but Hillary ’8

I have zero respect for any Clinton supporter who would even CONSIDER voting for McCain. I am an Obama supporter and have been since before he entered the race, but I deeply respect Sen. Clinton, and would gladly vote for her if she is the Dem nominee. I’d be disappointed, but I would have the honesty to see that she is VERY, VERY similar on about 99% of Obama’s policy positions, and if I couldn’t have him, Hillary is the closest candidate in terms of core principles. McCain on the other hand is a deal breaker. He is a died in the wool conservative, and would lead the country 180 degrees AWAY from almost all of Clinton’s treasured positions. Any person who TRULY supports Clinton and believes in the things she believes in should be HORRIFIED at the prospect of a McCain presidency. I guarantee you Hillary and Bill are, and if they don’t manage to win the nomination, I promise they will actively campaign to seat a Democrat in the White House. You have problems with Obama? Okay. But for any REAL criticism you have of him, I promise you, McCain is worse. After 8 Bush years, are you REALLY prepared to vote GOP? SHAME. Threatening to vote for McCain if your first choice isn’t nominated is the worst kind of sour grapes, and sounds like the old school yard whine, “if I can’t have my way, I’m taking my ball and going home!”